Should the Burkini be banned?

First topic message reminder :

I can't imagine anything more uncomfortable on the beach, and the most ridiculous garment.

Is M & S wrong for selling it?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3519932/Bin-burkini-M-S-launches-UK-burkini-Muslim-writer-YASMIN-ALIBHAI-BROWN-says-insidious-Islamification-fashion-terrible-blow-women.html

sassy wrote:Good grief, he doesn't even understand what he is saying.

Good grief you fail to answer my points again and make some lame expression to deflect

Its a simple choice answer question

Do you believe allah exists

If not you then back the sexist beliefs on men to enslave women

I wonder how many times he can say the same thing, and doesn't realise that is exactly what Veya meant by spamming.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Slavery? If a woman is told by a man she should wear a birkini, and she agrees, that's her choice. She is free to tell him to get stuffed. When will you accept that some women wear them from choice, and that nobody is making them wear them.

Tell you what? Why don't you barge into a Nunnery or a Buddhist centre and tell all the Nuns there that they shouldn't be wearing that stuff, and that they're "slaves"?

But the point goes over your head

If a women is led to believe they will suffer in an after life if they do not wear and believes this deity to exist and that they will suffer

Is that really a choice?

The choice is on believing that deity exists.

Thus its fear driving them to cover up, not a choice at all is it, thus being as there is no evidence of this God and the fact no high supreme intelligence would contradict as easily explain, then clearly this command is born from men, which they do not realise.

hence to help them open up their eyes and liberate them, as again how many who have left the faith have maintained covering up as they did whilst as a Muslim?

You usually say that religious belief is a choice, and now you say it's not. Make up your mind.

Why not listen to an Ex-Muslim

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

But the point goes over your head

If a women is led to believe they will suffer in an after life if they do not wear and believes this deity to exist and that they will suffer

Is that really a choice?

The choice is on believing that deity exists.

Thus its fear driving them to cover up, not a choice at all is it, thus being as there is no evidence of this God and the fact no high supreme intelligence would contradict as easily explain, then clearly this command is born from men, which they do not realise.

hence to help them open up their eyes and liberate them, as again how many who have left the faith have maintained covering up as they did whilst as a Muslim?

You usually say that religious belief is a choice, and now you say it's not. Make up your mind.

It is a choice, but people can be misled.

If people have many fears like dying they can be easily misled

Hence why I only wish to help liberate them

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You usually say that religious belief is a choice, and now you say it's not. Make up your mind.

It is a choice, but people can be misled.

If people have many fears like dying they can be easily misled

Hence why I only wish to help liberate them

Liberate yourself from your own prejudice and hatred first.

Ah, he's found someone else to say the same thing.

Yes someone who knows what its like

I suggest you more than anyone sassy should listen to watch what she says

She knows far more about islam than either of us

She understands what is wrong and looks to help

You more than anyone can learn from her

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:



It is a choice, but people can be misled.

If people have many fears like dying they can be easily misled

Hence why I only wish to help liberate them

Liberate yourself from your own prejudice and hatred first.

You are the one backing prejudice by defending this backward prejudiced belief

Try and learn and listen to the video

You have some much to learn

If people back the right of the religious to convert, then they have no right to complain if then atheists challenge beliefs to help people be liberated from religion

Go and preach to someone else, you have no idea what I know.  I've lived in Muslim countries, lived with Muslims in their houses.  Know a lot more than you do.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Liberate yourself from your own prejudice and hatred first.

You are the one backing prejudice by defending this backward prejudiced belief

Try and learn and listen to the video

You have some much to learn

No.

sassy wrote:Go and preach to someone else, you have idea what I know.  I've lived in Muslim countries, lived with Muslims in their houses.  Know a lot more than you do.

Perfectly good example of where you are afraid to hear the truth, instead you want to go "la la la la la la, Im not listening, la la la la"

Sassy I do not buy any of your claims, and i certainly understand far more about religion then you will ever hop to know

You see i once was regressive in defending religions, when no belief has a right to a defense, and open ed my eyes it was wrong

I tell you what ask Eilzel and Victor what they think on my views here and I will happily concede if they think i am trying to force women here in what to wear

You are the one going la la la, I speak from experience and knowledge of the actual people.

Anyway, Didge should be in the basement, so he's not really here. I shall ignore his bigotry, prejudice, and overbearing manner. He has nothing to teach anyone, except how to bludgeon people into agreeing with them, and he can't even succeed at that.

And I don't need to speak to Les or Victor, you think as a woman I can't make up my own mind about what your words mean and say.  And I don't buy your claim of knowledge, because you speak like an ignoramus into self aggrandisment.

sassy wrote:You are the one going la la la, I speak from experience and knowledge of the actual people.

is that why you are afraid to listen to her then?

Or not able to again answer my questions?

You see being as I have debated this from both sides gives me the unique position of further understanding this better than you.

I was once you in regards to religions and then relalised I was wrong and can admit I was once wrong.

You are afraid of being wrong and admitting this

i will defend the religious people have the equal rights under the law, but i will certainly challenge poor beliefs born from prejudice.

Just as they have the right daily to challenge other people in order to convert them

By default each religion will view the other as wrong and play off fear to try and convert

i am not even using fear, but showing it is fear that is leading them astray

Raggamuffin wrote:Anyway, Didge should be in the basement, so he's not really here. I shall ignore his bigotry, prejudice, and overbearing manner. He has nothing to teach anyone, except how to bludgeon people into agreeing with them, and he can't even succeed at that.

Seconded, he changed his name which is why he is not on ignore, but going back their now.

Raggamuffin wrote:Anyway, Didge should be in the basement, so he's not really here. I shall ignore his bigotry, prejudice, and overbearing manner. He has nothing to teach anyone, except how to bludgeon people into agreeing with them, and he can't even succeed at that.

I have sent a PM earlier by the way highlighting this thread and the other where you have alll stirred, attacked, disrupted and where here again go off topic starting.

He is going to be well aware of what is going on

I will have no problem if he states I have to go to the basement, but I have reported, you, sassy, zack and 4ever too.

Now i suggest you stay on topic and allow Ben to deal with

Here is another video by her, which people should watch




Right I have work to do, so please continue to say what you like..

Enjoy

Didge wrote:Here is another video by her, which people should watch




Right I have work to do, so please continue to say what you like..

Enjoy

You're such a liar. The only reason you're not here is because you got shoved in the basement like a rabid dog.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:Here is another video by her, which people should watch




Right I have work to do, so please continue to say what you like..

Enjoy

You're such a liar. The only reason you're not here is because you got shoved in the basement like a rabid dog.

Seriously grow up, its tedious now

You should watch the video and then you might finally open your eyes

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Anyway, Didge should be in the basement, so he's not really here. I shall ignore his bigotry, prejudice, and overbearing manner. He has nothing to teach anyone, except how to bludgeon people into agreeing with them, and he can't even succeed at that.

I have sent a PM earlier by the way highlighting this thread and the other where you have alll stirred, attacked, disrupted and where here again go off topic starting.

He is going to be well aware of what is going on

I will have no problem if he states I have to go to the basement, but I have reported, you, sassy, zack and 4ever too.

Now i suggest you stay on topic and allow Ben to deal with

LMAO...how absurd; for such a SUPERIOR DEBATER {in his own mind} that has flamed all of us and Veya too as being 'UNWORTHY/STUPID/IMMATURE'...you've whined yet again and sent PM's complaining about the very unworthy members that you were going to "IGNORE, until me intelligent member came along to respond to each and every one of your points"     

It's gotta be highly stressful in that confused place you keep your selective memory

4EVER2 wrote:

Didge wrote:
I have sent a PM earlier by the way highlighting this thread and the other where you have alll stirred, attacked, disrupted and where here again go off topic starting.

He is going to be well aware of what is going on

I will have no problem if he states I have to go to the basement, but I have reported, you, sassy, zack and 4ever too.

Now i suggest you stay on topic and allow Ben to deal with

LMAO...how absurd; for such a SUPERIOR DEBATER {in his own mind} that has flamed all of us and Veya too as being 'UNWORTHY/STUPID/IMMATURE'...you've whined yet again and sent PM's complaining about the very unworthy members that you were going to "IGNORE, until me intelligent member came along to respond to each and every one of your points"     

It's gotta be highly stressful in that confused place you keep your selective memory

So still more abuse which as this thread has been highlighted to Ben, he can see that you simply are one of the four guilty parties


Never even said i would ignore you, so yet again another lie

Hey ho

Raggamuffin wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:And even if Nigella's reasoning was that her husband liked women with pale skin, then that's one of the worst reasons for wearing it...pandering to a control freak who turned out to be a violent bully.   If that doesn't smack of all the Burqa stands for I don't know what does.

Yes, but it was her own choice. If she didn't like it, she would have told him to get stuffed.

She was a bullied wife for years.   That's what happens with women who suffer control by men, they eventually see it as their own choice, when in fact, it's far from it.   It's a survival mechanism.   I saw it happen to my own mother.   So nobody is going to tell me that a woman chooses to be controlled and subjugated by men.

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

You're such a liar. The only reason you're not here is because you got shoved in the basement like a rabid dog.

Seriously grow up, its tedious now

You should watch the video and then you might finally open your eyes

.

We've had this discussion about Qutbism vs Islam before and you learned nothing. Especially the Isis brand of Qutbism which has nothing to do with Islam at all.

Unfortunately pretentious arrogant twats like Rubin are ignorant and people like Maajid Nawaz (who would rather go to.a strip club than mosque) are using people like you to sell you what you crave.

Perhaps you need to open your eyes, bruv.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


Seriously grow up, its tedious now

You should watch the video and then you might finally open your eyes

.

We've had this discussion about Qutbism vs Islam before and you learned nothing. Especially the Isis brand of Qutbism which has nothing to do with Islam at all.

Unfortunately pretentious arrogant twats like Rubin are ignorant and people  like Maajid Nawaz (who would rather go to.a strip club than mosque) are using people like you to sell you what you crave.

Perhaps you need to open your eyes, bruv.

Why does a husband expect a wife to cover up, when he doesn't?

It's becoming pretty horrible here, and I think that's down to Didge. I'd like to know once and for all if it's OK for him to attack me for my religion for no reason, and call me "backward" because of it. I'd like to know if it's OK for him to bring up my personal faith and abuse me about it every time he feels like it, regardless of what I've said. I thought this was sorted last week, but apparently not. If it's OK for him to do that, I'll just get personal back.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, but it was her own choice. If she didn't like it, she would have told him to get stuffed.

She was a bullied wife for years.   That's what happens with women who suffer control by men, they eventually see it as their own choice, when in fact, it's far from it.   It's a survival mechanism.   I saw it happen to my own mother.   So nobody is going to tell me that a woman chooses to be controlled and subjugated by men.

Well she let him do it, so she must have thought it was OK. I don't think she was being controlled at all - look at how she walked out on him. She could have done that much earlier if she'd wanted to. Wanting to please him isn't the same as being controlled.

Didge wrote:

4EVER2 wrote:

LMAO...how absurd; for such a SUPERIOR DEBATER {in his own mind} that has flamed all of us and Veya too as being 'UNWORTHY/STUPID/IMMATURE'...you've whined yet again and sent PM's complaining about the very unworthy members that you were going to "IGNORE, until me intelligent member came along to respond to each and every one of your points"     

It's gotta be highly stressful in that confused place you keep your selective memory

So still more abuse which as this thread has been highlighted to Ben, he can see that you simply are one of the four guilty parties
Never even said i would ignore you, so yet again another lie

Hey ho

Oh, that ever selective & failing memory of yours, little Didge-doo >>>

From page #5

Didge
On Restricted Access (Basement)
Listen I am not going to bother the mods anymore with futile reports via PM, if you want to make them fed up with you be my guest

Its not against the rules for me to highlight that you have very prejudiced and backward beliefs which are enshrined in religious dogma.

You tell me, how is a command to execute children for answering back their parents not backward?

Right before Ragg's entered into the conversation again and right after you'd posted 3 more ass-swipes at Veya {whom you'd stated - I will put you on ignore}...deeming the entire group as 'UNWORTHY' and yet attacking everyone of us for our own opinion and spamming the entire thread with your regurgitated bile!
Master-Debater INDEED

Didge has only reported other people in the hope that everyone will be lumped together, including him. That's what usually happens.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
.

We've had this discussion about Qutbism vs Islam before and you learned nothing. Especially the Isis brand of Qutbism which has nothing to do with Islam at all.

Unfortunately pretentious arrogant twats like Rubin are ignorant and people  like Maajid Nawaz (who would rather go to.a strip club than mosque) are using people like you to sell you what you crave.

Perhaps you need to open your eyes, bruv.

Why does a husband expect a wife to cover up, when he doesn't?

For a start, it depends what you mean by "cover up".

Modesty is a requirement for both genders.

The husband does not expect the wife to cover up. Or visa versa. These are religious requirements.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:
Seriously grow up, its tedious now

You should watch the video and then you might finally open your eyes

We've had this discussion about Qutbism vs Islam before and you learned nothing. Especially the Isis brand of Qutbism which has nothing to do with Islam at all.

Unfortunately pretentious arrogant twats like Rubin are ignorant and people  like Maajid Nawaz (who would rather go to.a strip club than mosque) are using people like you to sell you what you crave.

Perhaps you need to open your eyes, bruv.

Just goes to show {IMHO} that there are extremists in ANY FAITH BASED group and those are not the mind-set for the entire organization...good grief,

Could you just imagine what some NEWBIE would think about all of us should they drop in through the rabbit hole and read some of Didge-doo's vile ranting posts   it's never a debating method to keep pushing an opinion forward just because it's a self-inflated issue and used to GENERALIZE a entire group of people!

Good point!

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Why does a husband expect a wife to cover up, when he doesn't?

For a start, it depends what you mean by "cover up".

Modesty is a requirement for both genders.

The husband does not expect the wife to cover up. Or visa versa. These are religious requirements.

Burqa and Niqab.   Are you saying the man would allow his wife to not cover up if she so chose?

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


Seriously grow up, its tedious now

You should watch the video and then you might finally open your eyes

.

We've had this discussion about Qutbism vs Islam before and you learned nothing. Especially the Isis brand of Qutbism which has nothing to do with Islam at all.

Unfortunately pretentious arrogant twats like Rubin are ignorant and people  like Maajid Nawaz (who would rather go to.a strip club than mosque) are using people like you to sell you what you crave.

Perhaps you need to open your eyes, bruv.

Islam still teaches women to cover up, through a backward sexist belief, as why do women then wear the headscarf as well and its women that suffer the most with this in countries like Saudi and iran?

You see people like you are so bigoted and you fail to listen to genuine criticism, which they have every right to say, and what do you do, claim they are bigots which proves what is wrong with religion. Its inability to be in the wrong, because as soon as doubt sets in, belief will fade and why you are so aggressive towards those who challenge faith. Yet if someone showed interest in your faith you would tell them of the wrongs of other faiths and claim atheism is wrong. Showing the utter hypocrisy of religion itself

Now are you denying it tells women and men to dress modestly showing a huge flaw in this deity?
Qutbism is a form of Islam, whether you like it or not or argue otherwise, they will claim you are wrong, as its again based on interpretations of verses of text that cannot be proved to even genuine of the time of Muhammad lety alone from a make belief deity.

4EVER2 wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
We've had this discussion about Qutbism vs Islam before and you learned nothing. Especially the Isis brand of Qutbism which has nothing to do with Islam at all.

Unfortunately pretentious arrogant twats like Rubin are ignorant and people  like Maajid Nawaz (who would rather go to.a strip club than mosque) are using people like you to sell you what you crave.

Perhaps you need to open your eyes, bruv.

Just goes to show {IMHO} that there are extremists in ANY FAITH BASED group and those are not the mind-set for the entire organization...good grief,

Could you just imagine what some NEWBIE would think about all of us should they drop in through the rabbit hole and read some of Didge-doo's vile ranting posts   it's never a debating method to keep pushing an opinion forward just because it's a self-inflated issue and used to GENERALIZE a entire group of people!

Of course.

And the extremists are also likely to be the loudest and get the most attention. Like Didge.

Moderates by definition stay quiet and get on with their lives.

Extremists tend not to have a life. Which is why Didge is here all the time and can't stay away, even when he's ritually humiliated, daily.

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
.

We've had this discussion about Qutbism vs Islam before and you learned nothing. Especially the Isis brand of Qutbism which has nothing to do with Islam at all.

Unfortunately pretentious arrogant twats like Rubin are ignorant and people  like Maajid Nawaz (who would rather go to.a strip club than mosque) are using people like you to sell you what you crave.

Perhaps you need to open your eyes, bruv.

Islam still teaches women to cover up, through a backward sexist belief, as why do women then wear the headscarf as well and its women that suffer the most with this in countries like Saudi and iran?

You see people like you are so bigoted and you fail to listen to genuine criticism, which they have every right to say, and what do you do, claim they are bigots which proves what is wrong with religion. Its inability to be in the wrong, because as soon as doubt sets in, belief will fade and why you are so aggressive towards those who challenge faith. Yet if someone showed interest in your faith you would tell them of the wrongs of other faiths and claim atheism is wrong. Showing the utter hypocrisy of religion itself

Now are you denying it tells women and men to dress modestly showing a huge flaw in this deity?
Qutbism is a form of Islam, whether you like it or not or argue otherwise, they will claim you are wrong, as its again based on interpretations of verses of text that cannot be proved to even genuine of the time of Muhammad lety alone from a make belief deity.

Qutbism is a form of Islam? HA HA HA HA HA!

Is that another sect?

And you don't even see how ignorant you are.

I can't have a serious conversation with idiots, when you're that ignorant.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

4EVER2 wrote:

Just goes to show {IMHO} that there are extremists in ANY FAITH BASED group and those are not the mind-set for the entire organization...good grief,

Could you just imagine what some NEWBIE would think about all of us should they drop in through the rabbit hole and read some of Didge-doo's vile ranting posts   it's never a debating method to keep pushing an opinion forward just because it's a self-inflated issue and used to GENERALIZE a entire group of people!

Of course.

And the extremists are also likely to be the loudest and get the most attention.  Like Didge.

Moderates by definition stay quiet and get on with their lives.

Extremists tend not to have a life. Which is why Didge is here all the time and can't stay away, even when he's ritually humiliated, daily.

You see is this kind of language that is nonsense and false

So people who challenge poor beliefs, are now extremists?

Really please explain to the forum, how that is so?

I do not go by absolute beliefs, as you do, when you have no evidence to know those deity exists and go off written words written centuries ago and deem them to have come from intelligence

Intelligence would not execute life or need to punish people for the a belief

Intelligence would not make love conditional, as love is freely given when it is love.

Intelligence would not use fear for people to follow them, unless they were nasty, because a person of  intelligence would never have cause to make people fear them, unless they were bad themselves

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


Islam still teaches women to cover up, through a backward sexist belief, as why do women then wear the headscarf as well and its women that suffer the most with this in countries like Saudi and iran?

You see people like you are so bigoted and you fail to listen to genuine criticism, which they have every right to say, and what do you do, claim they are bigots which proves what is wrong with religion. Its inability to be in the wrong, because as soon as doubt sets in, belief will fade and why you are so aggressive towards those who challenge faith. Yet if someone showed interest in your faith you would tell them of the wrongs of other faiths and claim atheism is wrong. Showing the utter hypocrisy of religion itself

Now are you denying it tells women and men to dress modestly showing a huge flaw in this deity?
Qutbism is a form of Islam, whether you like it or not or argue otherwise, they will claim you are wrong, as its again based on interpretations of verses of text that cannot be proved to even genuine of the time of Muhammad lety alone from a make belief deity.

Qutbism is a form of Islam? HA HA HA HA HA!

Is that another sect?

And you don't even see how ignorant you are.

I can't have a serious conversation with idiots, when you're that ignorant.

You see you just act immature again

To those who follow this they believe you are wrong, To wahhabists, they believe your form of islam is wrong

So either answer my points or stop acting like a baby

HoratioTarr wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

For a start, it depends what you mean by "cover up".

Modesty is a requirement for both genders.

The husband does not expect the wife to cover up. Or visa versa. These are religious requirements.

Burqa and Niqab.   Are you saying the man would allow his wife to not cover up if she so chose?

Lol! Do I speak for all men? Perhaps there is some man who is controlling. You have plenty of non Muslim men like that too.

Face covering is not an Islamic requirement. Some choose to do so, for some it's culture. Some like to copy the prophet's wives, who did cover their face but this was not a requirement for all women.

Can you hear a dog barking?

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Burqa and Niqab.   Are you saying the man would allow his wife to not cover up if she so chose?

Lol! Do I speak for all men? Perhaps there is some man who is controlling. You have plenty of non Muslim men like that too.

Face covering is not an Islamic requirement. Some choose to do so, for some it's culture. Some like to copy the prophet's wives, who did cover their face but this was not a requirement for all women.

Childish again, many Muslims believe that it is though the point you are missing and its forced on women as well and iot comes from an interpretation of Islamic text.

Clearly the most backward imperfect book written that nobody is able to read it correctly.

It has to be the worst ever manual to follow ever written

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Lol! Do I speak for all men? Perhaps there is some man who is controlling. You have plenty of non Muslim men like that too.

Face covering is not an Islamic requirement. Some choose to do so, for some it's culture. Some like to copy the prophet's wives, who did cover their face but this was not a requirement for all women.

Childish again, many Muslims believe that it is though the point you are missing and its forced on women as well and iot comes from an interpretation of Islamic text.

Clearly the most backward imperfect book written that nobody is able to read it correctly.

It has to be the worst ever manual to follow ever written

Can we have the in English, please?

Also for those interested.

Qutbism (also called Kotebism, Qutbiyya, or Qutbiyyah) is an Islamist ideology developed by the late Sayyid Qutb, a Muslim, and figurehead of the Muslim Brotherhood .^[1] It has been described as advancing the extremist jihadist ideology of propagating "offensive jihad," - waging jihad in conquest^[2] - or "armed jihad in the advance of Islam" ^[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutbism

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


Childish again, many Muslims believe that it is though the point you are missing and its forced on women as well and iot comes from an interpretation of Islamic text.

Clearly the most backward imperfect book written that nobody is able to read it correctly.

It has to be the worst ever manual to follow ever written

Can we have the in English, please?

Yeah sure just read it again this time with your glasses on.

Yet again when I raise points that cannot be answered the deflections and immaturity comes out in abundance by Zack

He fears me debating, that is plain to see

Can employers refuse to give a woman a job if she's wearing a burka? I think they should be able to if it's a job which requires dealing with the public or other staff. Would it be fair to say that most women who wear burkas don't actually need a job or need to socialise with non-Muslims.

Raggamuffin wrote:Can employers refuse to give a woman a job if she's wearing a burka? I think they should be able to if it's a job which requires dealing with the public or other staff. Would it be fair to say that most women who wear burkas don't actually need a job or need to socialise with non-Muslims.

They don't wear face covering, but there are many Muslim women who are teachers, professors, doctors, lawyers and other things that wear Islamic dress.

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Can employers refuse to give a woman a job if she's wearing a burka? I think they should be able to if it's a job which requires dealing with the public or other staff. Would it be fair to say that most women who wear burkas don't actually need a job or need to socialise with non-Muslims.

They don't wear face covering, but there are many Muslim women who are teachers, professors, doctors, lawyers and other things that wear Islamic dress.

I mean the full burka with the face covered Sassy.