Should the Burkini be banned?

I can't imagine anything more uncomfortable on the beach, and the most ridiculous garment.

Is M & S wrong for selling it?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3519932/Bin-burkini-M-S-launches-UK-burkini-Muslim-writer-YASMIN-ALIBHAI-BROWN-says-insidious-Islamification-fashion-terrible-blow-women.html

Yes they are wrong and furthermore I hope ALL their sales suffer downwards.

I will NOT buy M&S clothes from this day forth.

Stormee wrote:Yes they are wrong and furthermore I hope ALL their sales suffer downwards.

I will NOT buy M&S clothes from this day forth.

What about their food Stormee?

They are very ugly and cumbersome imo, but if it's a womans choice to wear one why should anyone else interfere?

I would prefer to see any thong wearer over 30, anyone overweight, and any man of whatever age or size wearing said article banned from public beaches.

M&S is a business....if they have seen a need to stock the burkini then they will do, not sure why it should bother anyone else.

HoratioTarr wrote:I can't imagine anything more uncomfortable on the beach, and the most ridiculous garment.

Is M & S wrong for selling it?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3519932/Bin-burkini-M-S-launches-UK-burkini-Muslim-writer-YASMIN-ALIBHAI-BROWN-says-insidious-Islamification-fashion-terrible-blow-women.html

She should be banned!

Stormee wrote:Yes they are wrong and furthermore I hope ALL their sales suffer downwards.

I will NOT buy M&S clothes from this day forth.

I swore never to set foot in their stores after an altercation about a carrier bag a few months ago....I capitulated eventully though.
I can do without their clothes (old fashioned) but I really missed their food.

Syl wrote:

Stormee wrote:Yes they are wrong and furthermore I hope ALL their sales suffer downwards.

I will NOT buy M&S clothes from this day forth.

I swore never to set foot in their stores after an altercation about a carrier bag a few months ago....I capitulated eventully though.
I can do without their clothes (old fashioned) but I really missed their food.

I never buy their clothes but I do buy the food.

HoratioTarr wrote:I can't imagine anything more uncomfortable on the beach, and the most ridiculous garment.

Is M & S wrong for selling it?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3519932/Bin-burkini-M-S-launches-UK-burkini-Muslim-writer-YASMIN-ALIBHAI-BROWN-says-insidious-Islamification-fashion-terrible-blow-women.html

What about wetsuits or people who cover up for other issues?

http://www.coolibar.com/section/UV-Swimwear/2223.uts

Anyway nobody is making someone else buy it. Live and let live.

Why do people have to moan about what someone is wearing on a beach?
I've seen far worse.

Leave them alone. If people want to cover up then let them.

FFS, stop trying to regulate what people wear. You do that and you're as bad as you imagine the people you're opposing are ...

I understand it. Neuroscience is showing that right-wingers fantasize that they're the guardians of their culture:

For natural conservatives, culture, not economic efficiency, is the paramount value. More specifically, they value the greatest cultural expressions of their tribe. Their perfect society does not necessarily produce a soaring GDP, but it does produce symphonies, basilicas and Old Masters. The natural conservative tendency within the alt-right points to these apotheoses of western European culture and declares them valuable and worth preserving and protecting.

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/an-establishment-conservatives-guide-to-the-alt-right/

And before anybody jumps me, that quote is from a rightwing website.

I see the point is lost on the lefty Police

Its not about what people wear but that they are made to believe they have to where. Due to a belief its compulsory and that they will be punished in an after life if they do not wear.

The same principle applies to wear many think they have to segregate based on a belief and a fear, that if they do not, they will be punished and not only in a make belief life but in this life in some countries.

The same used to happen to women who had to cover their heads in churches

The choice is not on wearing the item, but the choice is made on what doctrine of faith they have decided to follow.

The garment is a symbol of oppression designed and created by men to control women and is found worn by a huge majority in places where women are subjugated and oppressed by men through doctrines like Wahhabism.

So as I stated before, to attend some schools, they have a compulsory school uniform.
If that child fails to wear the correct uniform, they are disciplined. From anything from a detention to being sent home.

The same principle applies here. The belief is indoctrinated that they have to wear, or that their Deity will be displeased and they will suffer in the after life. So fear is being used to make women wrongly believe they have to wear. Even worse is when this is drummed and forced onto a child growing up. Making them have the belief they want to wear something as it gets them a pass into their heaven.

So again for the leftist islamism appeasers here. This is an Islamist garment, from political islam, forced onto many, where only in the west some wrongly believe its choice. Were as seen, its not a choice, when you already believe you will suffer in a belief of the after life if you do not wear.

When are lefties going to stop encouraging a garment designed to subjugate women and thus support and back backward beliefs.
By advocating support of this barbaric outfit, you support then those nations that punish women over this.

Many Muslim women cannot even leave their doctrine of Islam, due to how then the family would ostracize them or even worse could happen to some. Where in some Muslim countries where this is prevalent, women cannot even leave Islam, on punishment of death. 

So how is any of that a choice?

Its time people started to think and care for women and stop thinking beliefs based on ignorance and sexism deserve any defense

I hold you Eddie, Cass and Ben in high respect, so try to learn what you  defend. Which defends subjugation based off bad beliefs, neoconservative hard-line political Islam, that use fear to control people.

It's as much of a choice as the habit is for a nun or a leather jacket is for a member of a biker gang. You're just outraged because ISLAM MUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!

People pay lip-service to religions even if they don't believe them to get along in their societies. I do it every day. It's kind of dickish to expect everyone to take a stand when their livelihoods or lives depend on them being seen as a card-carrying member of this group or that. Everybody's just trying to get by, and change comes slowly in most cases.

Ben_Reilly wrote:It's as much of a choice as the habit is for a nun or a leather jacket is for a member of a biker gang. You're just outraged because ISLAM MUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!

People pay lip-service to religions even if they don't believe them to get along in their societies. I do it every day. It's kind of dickish to expect everyone to take a stand when their livelihoods or lives depend on them being seen as a card-carrying member of this group or that. Everybody's just trying to get by, and change comes slowly in most cases.

The outfit of the Nun is wrong also as a form of oppression where they think they are married to Christ.
You still cannot grasp you are defending a belief that is a form of subjugation and from a neoconservative Political Islam

So your childish claim on this being Muslims fails to even see I am trying to liberate Muslim women where they have been indoctrinated through beliefs like Whabbism. People like you are on the matter of religious social issues are clueless Ben. As you defend poor and bad beliefs. One where this not only effects many women but where they are physically punished and have no ability to leave that faith or will face the death penalty. Again a belief is being promoted through the use of fear in an after life of what will happen to them and in some Muslim countries in life as well. 

To me that is appalling, any religious garment which is formed from the sexit views of men, which is also predominant in Christianity and Judaisms is wrong. I mean how on earth do you think many habits like women covering their head in church changed Ben? By appeasing the catholic Church and standing up to it? You wish to Bend over and continually pick up the soap it seems. I mean maybe you can tell why it is necessary to wear a uniform to love and believe in a deity?

Now try again countering my points






Its not about what people wear but that they are made to believe they have to where. Due to a belief its compulsory and that they will be punished in an after life if they do not wear.

The same principle applies to wear many think they have to segregate based on a belief and a fear, that if they do not, they will be punished and not only in a make belief life but in this life in some countries.

The same used to happen to women who had to cover their heads in churches

The choice is not on wearing the item, but the choice is made on what doctrine of faith they have decided to follow.

The garment is a symbol of oppression designed and created by men to control women and is found worn by a huge majority in places where women are subjugated and oppressed by men through doctrines like Wahhabism.

So as I stated before, to attend some schools, they have a compulsory school uniform.
If that child fails to wear the correct uniform, they are disciplined. From anything from a detention to being sent home.

The same principle applies here. The belief is indoctrinated that they have to wear, or that their Deity will be displeased and they will suffer in the after life. So fear is being used to make women wrongly believe they have to wear. Even worse is when this is drummed and forced onto a child growing up. Making them have the belief they want to wear something as it gets them a pass into their heaven.

So again for the leftist islamism appeasers here. This is an Islamist garment, from political islam, forced onto many, where only in the west some wrongly believe its choice. Were as seen, its not a choice, when you already believe you will suffer in a belief of the after life if you do not wear.

When are lefties going to stop encouraging a garment designed to subjugate women and thus support and back backward beliefs.
By advocating support of this barbaric outfit, you support then those nations that punish women over this.

Many Muslim women cannot even leave their doctrine of Islam, due to how then the family would ostracize them or even worse could happen to some. Where in some Muslim countries where this is prevalent, women cannot even leave Islam, on punishment of death. 

So how is any of that a choice?

Its time people started to think and care for women and stop thinking beliefs based on ignorance and sexism deserve any defense

I am not the lefty police. I am me thank you.

I do not need to learn about what I defend thank you.

Cass wrote:I am not the lefty police. I am me thank you.

I do not need to learn about what I defend thank you.

I am afraid that you do and if you comment on a thread. Then you open yourself to people telling you what you are doing wrong by defending such an oppressive garment. If you do not want to listen, is up to you, but I will not stand by silent when people then poorly defend something born from a belief that women are inferior to men. Its not going to make me respect you any less, just I am not afraid to speak my mind to those I do respect.

As you continue to blind yourself Cass into thinking you are defending a liberal value when you are defending the neoconservative political beliefs of Islam that has the worst sexist views on women alongside the other two Abrahamic beliefs politically through neoconservative.
The very fact you could not respond to my points shows that. In other words your liberal views conflict. This is not about choice as explained. Women are wrongly made to believe they will suffer if they do not wear. It is a belief taught through fear, that makes a woman wrongly believe she needs to over herself or some myth a deity born from a views made not 1400 years ago but only found in written documents called Hadiths written no earlier than 1100 years ago.
Thus us you stifle progression

As I've said many many times, and as Zack has confirmed many, many times....these women wear the hijab or burkha or burkhini because they want to!

Most are not 'told' to wear them.

I don't find them threatening or bothersome, and I simply don't have a problem with how anyone chooses to dress.

eddie wrote:As I've said many many times, and as Zack has confirmed many, many times....these women wear the hijab or burkha or burkhini because they want to!

Most are not 'told' to wear them.

I don't find them threatening or bothersome, and I simply don't have a problem with how anyone chooses to dress.

What did you fail to understand about why they think they have a choice, when that choice is based on an ulterior motive of fear Eddie?

Seriously?

I mean the worst aspect of this is that humans are meant to be made in this deities image. Which you would think means that this deity believes his image is beautiful. Why would you then make an absurd belief warning those who do not adhere will suffer in an afterlife. That contradicts making something beautiful in your image. To blame women as if they are at fault for their beauty.  I mean how can you be then ashamed of this beauty to order that it be covered up, when every single other supposed creation is in its naked beauty?
How many mothers or fathers tell their daughters they are too beautiful and they need to cover completely and that they should hide their beauty, as if this beauty is what causes men to rape, as the daft perception and belief is made on this?

So again how is it a choice when they follow the beliefs of a doctrine which make this uniform compulsory?

Again the creation of this garment was to hide the beauty of women, as if that what they look like is at fault in someway.

Now imagine for one second it was then also created to cover women up for not being so beautiful.

Would you then also still believe it was a choice?

Again where a doctrine places a belief something is needed in order to tick one of the boxes that allows you into this heaven. Then clearly, the choice is not a choice. As you will only end up suffering in this after life by choosing to disobey. The same principle and consequences happen also in this life in certain Muslim countries, where they will suffer punishment if they do not wear this uniform. They then have zero choice on the choice of even leaving Islam in these same countries, as the penalty is death.

How on earth does anyone lay claim to that being a choice?

Didge all I knew is what I'm told by the actual people who wear them: they are not under any obligation to wear them.

So any point you make about "doctrines" or "ulterior motives" is rendered kind of moot tbh.

Besides, many Muslim women wear make up so they're hardly being indoctrinated or told to "dumb down" their beauty.

eddie wrote:Didge all I knew is what I'm told by the actual people who wear them: they are not under any obligation to wear them.

So any point you make about "doctrines" or "ulterior motives" is rendered kind of moot tbh.

Besides, many Muslim women wear make up so they're hardly being indoctrinated or told to "dumb down" their beauty.

Again Eddie, they are telling you where they think its a choice but fail themselves to see there is an ulterior motive through fear.
They fear allah and thus do not want to disobey him.

So its not moot, that was just bull Eddie, sorry.

If they do not fear their deity, then why do they wear the uniform?

Ask them that.

Its a compulsory belief to wear in Wahhabism.

Not only that again its born from written works 1100 years ago in the hadiths and one verse interpreted in the Quran 1400 years old.

A free choice to wear something is like you do most times you go shopping and see something and like it and buy it and then wear it.

This is not that in any shape or form.

Its the uniform for Wahhabist Muslim women have to wear, that in a claim to an after life will suffer if they disobey.
In this life in certain Muslim countries, they will suffer and are forced by their husbands.
In this country they believe it is a command from their deity they should cover based off the views of Muhammad in hadiths, none of which can be verified if they were his views. Or even the Quran with the one verse can be verified to being the views of a myth.
last of all this is the worst part, many women are forced to wear in countries even the headscarf

So again how on earth is that a choice?

No belief that plays off a fear you will be punished deserves any defense when it is born from sexist Political neoconservative Islam, as you then end up defending that sexist political belief.

Look didge I am not arguing that certain aspects of any religion aren't stupid - they are - rosaries and Hail Marys for instance! Ridiculous IMO but I think you're mistake when you believe that most Muslim women dress out of fear, yes a small percentage as in every religion, are probably fearful.

Look at the Orthodox Jews: the men aren't allowed to look at non-Jewish women! They must avert their eyes. I find it stupid and also unnecessary but that's what they believe so leave them to it.

eddie wrote:Look didge I am not arguing that certain aspects of any religion aren't stupid - they are - rosaries and Hail Marys for instance! Ridiculous IMO but I think you're mistake when you believe that most Muslim women dress out of fear, yes a small percentage as in every religion, are probably fearful.

Look at the Orthodox Jews: the men aren't allowed to look at non-Jewish women! They must avert their eyes. I find it stupid and also unnecessary but that's what they believe so leave them to it.

What did I already say on Christianity and Judaism as well to Ben? (Which proves you show no decency by not bothering to read them, thanks.)

So you admit they are stupid and you are defending a stupid belief, that plays off fear.

An unfounded fear born from written claims by men, made into a book

That is not being free to choose, but commanded to or suffer the consequences.

Thus fear is the driving factor that has made people believe in religion for thousands of years.

They fear the unknown and then men have played off that fear, but capitalizing on that forming commands claimed to come from a God.

Yes I saw you'd mentioned christianity and Judaism didge - I wasn't having a dig at you I was merely mentioning them myself

eddie wrote:Yes I saw you'd mentioned christianity and Judaism didge - I wasn't having a dig at you I was merely mentioning them myself

Eddie I am atheist and make no exception on any of the religions that use fear and play off this with commands, when they are clearly the views of men. That people have been suckered into buying the bull they made up, plagiarized and did fundamentally to control being playing off the very fact that some people do fear death. All of these religions do not allow for the other one to be right and thus all others are wrong.

Religion is the worst form of abuse when it comes to control. It stifles free thought and freedom. Doing this again based on a fear of what happens if you do not obey.

The sooner organised religion goes the way of the Dodo, the better.
I would rather people were like you in their religious beliefs.
It has no rules and allows for you to simple believe in a God of Love.

That does not force anyone to do anything and not be constrained by commands, formed from the worst emotionally reasoning in many cases.

Anyway have a good day

Look at the racist twats demanding on women should wear.

Besides, this is not necessarily a religious garment. Nigella Lawson wears a Burkini. Because she doesn't want to show her chubby bits hanging out her regular bikini or swim suit.

And as someone has already said - what about wetsuits.

You idiots, from Stormee to Didge haven't really thought this through.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Look at the racist twats demanding on women should wear.

Besides, this is not necessarily a religious garment. Nigella Lawson wears a Burkini. Because she doesn't want to show her chubby bits hanging out her regular bikini or swim suit.

And as someone has already said - what about wetsuits.

You idiots, from Stormee to Didge haven't really thought this through.

Wetsuits are not what people wear on the beach but use in diving

Have you tried diving in this garment?

Love to see how you would get on with the water where its colder of course, so that view is just blatantly absurd, as the diving suot is for a specific purpose. This garment is born from the religious subjugation and control of men

Same questions go to you that has been made in replies and it surpises me not at all that you defend covering up women, as if they should be ashamed of how they look. This is what you believe in the views of backward men who wrote a book, that you were naive to buy thinking something claimed to have such supreme intelligence would offer up such ridiculous forms of control on women.
Only the emotive state of a human who lacks infinate intelligence would create such absurtity

Muslims are not a race and anyone Muslim of any ethnicity can wear this.
Its about liberating women, where you want to them to remain shackled

Main points again








Its not about what people wear but that they are made to believe they have to where. Due to a belief its compulsory and that they will be punished in an after life if they do not wear.

The same principle applies to wear many think they have to segregate based on a belief and a fear, that if they do not, they will be punished and not only in a make belief life but in this life in some countries.

The same used to happen to women who had to cover their heads in churches

The choice is not on wearing the item, but the choice is made on what doctrine of faith they have decided to follow.

The garment is a symbol of oppression designed and created by men to control women and is found worn by a huge majority in places where women are subjugated and oppressed by men through doctrines like Wahhabism.

So as I stated before, to attend some schools, they have a compulsory school uniform.
If that child fails to wear the correct uniform, they are disciplined. From anything from a detention to being sent home.

The same principle applies here. The belief is indoctrinated that they have to wear, or that their Deity will be displeased and they will suffer in the after life. So fear is being used to make women wrongly believe they have to wear. Even worse is when this is drummed and forced onto a child growing up. Making them have the belief they want to wear something as it gets them a pass into their heaven.

So again for the leftist islamism appeasers here. This is an Islamist garment, from political islam, forced onto many, where only in the west some wrongly believe its choice. Were as seen, its not a choice, when you already believe you will suffer in a belief of the after life if you do not wear.

When are lefties going to stop encouraging a garment designed to subjugate women and thus support and back backward beliefs.
By advocating support of this barbaric outfit, you support then those nations that punish women over this.

Many Muslim women cannot even leave their doctrine of Islam, due to how then the family would ostracize them or even worse could happen to some. Where in some Muslim countries where this is prevalent, women cannot even leave Islam, on punishment of death. 

So how is any of that a choice?

Its time people started to think and care for women and stop thinking beliefs based on ignorance and sexism deserve any defense
An unfounded fear born from written claims by men, made into a book

That is not being free to choose, but commanded to or suffer the consequences.

Thus fear is the driving factor that has made people believe in religion for thousands of years.

They fear the unknown and then men have played off that fear, but capitalizing on that forming commands claimed to come from a God.

eddie wrote:As I've said many many times, and as Zack has confirmed many, many times....these women wear the hijab or burkha or burkhini because they want to!

Most are not 'told' to wear them.

I don't find them threatening or bothersome, and I simply don't have a problem with how anyone chooses to dress.

They 'want' to because they've been indoctrinated into believing it's the norm.    There's an element of appeasement going on, appeasement to Islam, to their society, to men.   They think that by doing so, they become better people, women who won't shame the menfolk.     By selling this garment, Marks and Spencer are condoning the subjugation of women.    And that's what the 'veil' is.   A garment of control.   If it wasn't, then men would also cover themselves.

At a more extreme level, how would you feel if a major store starting selling special blades for FGM?

And just at those who wear this think of Non-Muslims and how they dress.

Go figure and how this religion sadly warps the mind of gullible people

feelthelove wrote:

Stormee wrote:Yes they are wrong and furthermore I hope ALL their sales suffer downwards.

I will NOT buy M&S clothes from this day forth.

What about their food Stormee?

Good point, do not buy much food from M&S so will stop that also.

HoratioTarr wrote:

eddie wrote:As I've said many many times, and as Zack has confirmed many, many times....these women wear the hijab or burkha or burkhini because they want to!

Most are not 'told' to wear them.

I don't find them threatening or bothersome, and I simply don't have a problem with how anyone chooses to dress.

They 'want' to because they've been indoctrinated into believing it's the norm.    There's an element of appeasement going on, appeasement to Islam, to their society, to men.   They think that by doing so, they become better people, women who won't shame the menfolk.     By selling this garment, Marks and Spencer are condoning the subjugation of women.    And that's what the 'veil' is.   A garment of control.   If it wasn't, then men would also cover themselves.

At a more extreme level, how would you feel if a major store starting selling special blades for FGM?

FGM is done WITHOUT a girl or woman's consent - so the two points are miles apart Horatio

eddie wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

They 'want' to because they've been indoctrinated into believing it's the norm.    There's an element of appeasement going on, appeasement to Islam, to their society, to men.   They think that by doing so, they become better people, women who won't shame the menfolk.     By selling this garment, Marks and Spencer are condoning the subjugation of women.    And that's what the 'veil' is.   A garment of control.   If it wasn't, then men would also cover themselves.

At a more extreme level, how would you feel if a major store starting selling special blades for FGM?

FGM is done WITHOUT a girl or woman's consent - so the two points are miles apart Horatio

The operation is done by women who have had  it done to  themselves, ergo they choose to do this.  It's part of their culture.   Again, yet another case of generation after generation perpetuating what amounts to a surgical chastity belt put in place by men.

eddie wrote:As I've said many many times, and as Zack has confirmed many, many times....these women wear the hijab or burkha or burkhini because they want to!

Most are not 'told' to wear them.
I don't find them threatening or bothersome, and I simply don't have a problem with how anyone chooses to dress.

Thank you eds and Zack.

You don't see everyone screaming about certain Christian sects being made to cover up or not use cars, electricity , or Orthodox Jewish women having to wear wigs or long sleeves and their husbands not touching them for 7 days during their monthly period.

There is a big difference between stores selling these - again no one from zack mentions possible other aspects and right on nigella is one and blades with which to deliberately sexually mutilate human beings - men and women both.

Every culture has its pro and cons that you personally may not like but again nobody is forcing you to do it. Apart from serious matters such as FMG this is ridiculous and such a non- problem.

Well said Cassandra.

Cass wrote:

eddie wrote:As I've said many many times, and as Zack has confirmed many, many times....these women wear the hijab or burkha or burkhini because they want to!

Most are not 'told' to wear them.
I don't find them threatening or bothersome, and I simply don't have a problem with how anyone chooses to dress.

Thank you eds and Zack.

You don't see everyone screaming about certain Christian sects being made to cover up or not use cars,  electricity , or Orthodox Jewish women having to wear wigs or long sleeves and their husbands not touching them for 7 days during their monthly period.
Poor deflection, yes people do but they are not as problematic as they once were. I already stated about women in the Christian Church being indoctrinated they have to cover their heads in Church. Jews also wear the Burka as well again being wrong
You do not solve an issue of sexism and the abuse of women by saying others have this problem, that is just admitting it is a problem.


There is a big difference between stores selling these - again no one from zack mentions possible other aspects and right on nigella is one and blades with which to deliberately sexually mutilate human beings - men and women both.
Oh for goodness sake, did you read or understand why the Burka was born from?
Subjugation of women, denying them their rights as woman by leading them to believe they have to wear this based off a view they are fault for their beauty? Typical leftist nonsense

Every culture has its pro and cons that you personally may not like but again nobody is forcing you to do it. Apart from serious matters such as FMG this is ridiculous and such a non- problem.

Piss poor me Lady, it showed you never read a single point made or were able to counter any of them. Your worse point being the wet suit which is a specific clothing for diving and for a reason
Again you are defending a neoconservative Political islam
Now I shall have to post them again after you avoided them



Its not about what people wear but that they are made to believe they have to where. Due to a belief its compulsory and that they will be punished in an after life if they do not wear.

The same principle applies to wear many think they have to segregate based on a belief and a fear, that if they do not, they will be punished and not only in a make belief life but in this life in some countries.

The same used to happen to women who had to cover their heads in churches

The choice is not on wearing the item, but the choice is made on what doctrine of faith they have decided to follow.

The garment is a symbol of oppression designed and created by men to control women and is found worn by a huge majority in places where women are subjugated and oppressed by men through doctrines like Wahhabism.

So as I stated before, to attend some schools, they have a compulsory school uniform.
If that child fails to wear the correct uniform, they are disciplined. From anything from a detention to being sent home.

The same principle applies here. The belief is indoctrinated that they have to wear, or that their Deity will be displeased and they will suffer in the after life. So fear is being used to make women wrongly believe they have to wear. Even worse is when this is drummed and forced onto a child growing up. Making them have the belief they want to wear something as it gets them a pass into their heaven.

So again for the leftist islamism appeasers here. This is an Islamist garment, from political islam, forced onto many, where only in the west some wrongly believe its choice. Were as seen, its not a choice, when you already believe you will suffer in a belief of the after life if you do not wear.

When are lefties going to stop encouraging a garment designed to subjugate women and thus support and back backward beliefs.
By advocating support of this barbaric outfit, you support then those nations that punish women over this.

Many Muslim women cannot even leave their doctrine of Islam, due to how then the family would ostracize them or even worse could happen to some. Where in some Muslim countries where this is prevalent, women cannot even leave Islam, on punishment of death.

So how is any of that a choice?

Its time people started to think and care for women and stop thinking beliefs based on ignorance and sexism deserve any defense


An unfounded fear born from written claims by men, made into a book

That is not being free to choose, but commanded to or suffer the consequences.

Thus fear is the driving factor that has made people believe in religion for thousands of years.

They fear the unknown and then men have played off that fear, but capitalizing on that forming commands claimed to come from a God.

eddie wrote:Well said Cassandra.

It was the worst deflection defense of a male based sexist invention I have ever seen

I don't care

ALL muzzzzizzz should be banned from here, gard or no gard because when the sh** hits the fan they will be HARDCORE muzzzzizzzz through and through, NO MODERATES, they will stick together.
Anyone doubts twill happen are sleepwalking to disaster.

not a Burkini but a Burka, I saw a toddler scream in fright when a woman [or man] came near him wearing one.

nicko wrote: not   a Burkini but a Burka,  I saw a toddler scream in fright when a woman [or man] came near him wearing one.

I've seen toddlers scream at doctors. Shall we get doctors banned?

Yes, those going on strike!

M&S will stock whatever they think will sell. If people think they're pandering to Muslims, they can choose not to go shopping there.

Cass wrote:

eddie wrote:As I've said many many times, and as Zack has confirmed many, many times....these women wear the hijab or burkha or burkhini because they want to!

Most are not 'told' to wear them.
I don't find them threatening or bothersome, and I simply don't have a problem with how anyone chooses to dress.

Thank you eds and Zack.

You don't see everyone screaming about certain Christian sects being made to cover up or not use cars,  electricity , or Orthodox Jewish women having to wear wigs or long sleeves and their husbands not touching them for 7 days during their monthly period.

There is a big difference between stores selling these - again no one from zack mentions possible other aspects and right on nigella is one and blades with which to deliberately sexually mutilate human beings - men and women both.

Every culture has its pro and cons that you personally may not like but again nobody is forcing you to do it. Apart from serious matters such as FMG this is ridiculous and such a non- problem.

No worries Cass

I think it's the height of idiocy that those screaming "oppression" want to force women not to wear a garment.

Of course nobody would give a shit if it was another religion.

Cass wrote:

eddie wrote:As I've said many many times, and as Zack has confirmed many, many times....these women wear the hijab or burkha or burkhini because they want to!

Most are not 'told' to wear them.
I don't find them threatening or bothersome, and I simply don't have a problem with how anyone chooses to dress.

Thank you eds and Zack.

You don't see everyone screaming about certain Christian sects being made to cover up or not use cars,  electricity , or Orthodox Jewish women having to wear wigs or long sleeves and their husbands not touching them for 7 days during their monthly period.

There is a big difference between stores selling these - again no one from zack mentions possible other aspects and right on nigella is one and blades with which to deliberately sexually mutilate human beings - men and women both.

Every culture has its pro and cons that you personally may not like but again nobody is forcing you to do it. Apart from serious matters such as FMG this is ridiculous and such a non- problem.

Wearing a wig and covering the entire body and face are hardly comparative.   The argument is not against the hijab, or hair covering but the niqab, entire face covering and the burqa, full body covering.  

Are you saying it's ok for women to have to cover up their faces?   You think it's fine for the men not to cover up?  
Why do you think the women have to cover up and not the men?

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Look at the racist twats demanding on women should wear.

Besides, this is not necessarily a religious garment. Nigella Lawson wears a Burkini. Because she doesn't want to show her chubby bits hanging out her regular bikini or swim suit.

And as someone has already said - what about wetsuits.

You idiots, from Stormee to Didge haven't really thought this through.

Wetsuits are not what people wear on the beach but use in diving

Have you tried diving in this garment?

Love to see how you would get on with the water where its colder of course, so that view is just blatantly absurd, as the diving suot is for a specific purpose. This garment is born from the religious subjugation and control of men

Same questions go to you that has been made in replies and it surpises me not at all that you defend covering up women, as if they should be ashamed of how they look. This is what you believe in the views of backward men who wrote a book, that you were naive to buy thinking something claimed to have such supreme intelligence would offer up such ridiculous forms of control on women.
Only the emotive state of a human who lacks infinate intelligence would create such absurtity

Muslims are not a race and anyone Muslim of any ethnicity can wear this.
Its about liberating women, where you want to them to remain shackled

Main points again








Its not about what people wear but that they are made to believe they have to where. Due to a belief its compulsory and that they will be punished in an after life if they do not wear.

The same principle applies to wear many think they have to segregate based on a belief and a fear, that if they do not, they will be punished and not only in a make belief life but in this life in some countries.

The same used to happen to women who had to cover their heads in churches

The choice is not on wearing the item, but the choice is made on what doctrine of faith they have decided to follow.

The garment is a symbol of oppression designed and created by men to control women and is found worn by a huge majority in places where women are subjugated and oppressed by men through doctrines like Wahhabism.

So as I stated before, to attend some schools, they have a compulsory school uniform.
If that child fails to wear the correct uniform, they are disciplined. From anything from a detention to being sent home.

The same principle applies here. The belief is indoctrinated that they have to wear, or that their Deity will be displeased and they will suffer in the after life. So fear is being used to make women wrongly believe they have to wear. Even worse is when this is drummed and forced onto a child growing up. Making them have the belief they want to wear something as it gets them a pass into their heaven.

So again for the leftist islamism appeasers here. This is an Islamist garment, from political islam, forced onto many, where only in the west some wrongly believe its choice. Were as seen, its not a choice, when you already believe you will suffer in a belief of the after life if you do not wear.

When are lefties going to stop encouraging a garment designed to subjugate women and thus support and back backward beliefs.
By advocating support of this barbaric outfit, you support then those nations that punish women over this.

Many Muslim women cannot even leave their doctrine of Islam, due to how then the family would ostracize them or even worse could happen to some. Where in some Muslim countries where this is prevalent, women cannot even leave Islam, on punishment of death. 

So how is any of that a choice?

Its time people started to think and care for women and stop thinking beliefs based on ignorance and sexism deserve any defense

 

An unfounded fear born from written claims by men, made into a book

That is not being free to choose, but commanded to or suffer the consequences.

Thus fear is the driving factor that has made people believe in religion for thousands of years.

They fear the unknown and then men have played off that fear, but capitalizing on that forming commands claimed to come from a God.

Those aren't points Didge. That's commentary. Actually more like a rant but I'm being generous.

If you want structured debate then fine, start making actual points. As in, brief concise statements (just in case, you're too stupid to know the definition).

Stormee wrote:ALL muzzzzizzz should be banned from here, gard or no gard because when the sh** hits the fan they will be HARDCORE muzzzzizzzz through and through, NO MODERATES, they will stick together.
Anyone doubts twill happen are sleepwalking to disaster.

Shame you're too gutless to do anything about it. You scummy little cun-t.

eddie wrote:

nicko wrote: not   a Burkini but a Burka,  I saw a toddler scream in fright when a woman [or man] came near him wearing one.

I've seen toddlers scream at doctors. Shall we get doctors banned?

Yes if they dress as to frighten OUR littlunz,

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Cass wrote:
Thank you eds and Zack.

You don't see everyone screaming about certain Christian sects being made to cover up or not use cars,  electricity , or Orthodox Jewish women having to wear wigs or long sleeves and their husbands not touching them for 7 days during their monthly period.

There is a big difference between stores selling these - again no one from zack mentions possible other aspects and right on nigella is one and blades with which to deliberately sexually mutilate human beings - men and women both.

Every culture has its pro and cons that you personally may not like but again nobody is forcing you to do it. Apart from serious matters such as FMG this is ridiculous and such a non- problem.

No worries Cass

I think it's the height of idiocy that those screaming "oppression" want to force women not to wear a garment.

Of course nobody would give a shit if it was another religion.

Which other religion forces women to wear a full body covering?

And I'll ask again, why is it that women must cover up and not men?   Give me one logical reason.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:

Wetsuits are not what people wear on the beach but use in diving

Have you tried diving in this garment?

Love to see how you would get on with the water where its colder of course, so that view is just blatantly absurd, as the diving suot is for a specific purpose. This garment is born from the religious subjugation and control of men

Same questions go to you that has been made in replies and it surpises me not at all that you defend covering up women, as if they should be ashamed of how they look. This is what you believe in the views of backward men who wrote a book, that you were naive to buy thinking something claimed to have such supreme intelligence would offer up such ridiculous forms of control on women.
Only the emotive state of a human who lacks infinate intelligence would create such absurtity

Muslims are not a race and anyone Muslim of any ethnicity can wear this.
Its about liberating women, where you want to them to remain shackled

Main points again








Its not about what people wear but that they are made to believe they have to where. Due to a belief its compulsory and that they will be punished in an after life if they do not wear.

The same principle applies to wear many think they have to segregate based on a belief and a fear, that if they do not, they will be punished and not only in a make belief life but in this life in some countries.

The same used to happen to women who had to cover their heads in churches

The choice is not on wearing the item, but the choice is made on what doctrine of faith they have decided to follow.

The garment is a symbol of oppression designed and created by men to control women and is found worn by a huge majority in places where women are subjugated and oppressed by men through doctrines like Wahhabism.

So as I stated before, to attend some schools, they have a compulsory school uniform.
If that child fails to wear the correct uniform, they are disciplined. From anything from a detention to being sent home.

The same principle applies here. The belief is indoctrinated that they have to wear, or that their Deity will be displeased and they will suffer in the after life. So fear is being used to make women wrongly believe they have to wear. Even worse is when this is drummed and forced onto a child growing up. Making them have the belief they want to wear something as it gets them a pass into their heaven.

So again for the leftist islamism appeasers here. This is an Islamist garment, from political islam, forced onto many, where only in the west some wrongly believe its choice. Were as seen, its not a choice, when you already believe you will suffer in a belief of the after life if you do not wear.

When are lefties going to stop encouraging a garment designed to subjugate women and thus support and back backward beliefs.
By advocating support of this barbaric outfit, you support then those nations that punish women over this.

Many Muslim women cannot even leave their doctrine of Islam, due to how then the family would ostracize them or even worse could happen to some. Where in some Muslim countries where this is prevalent, women cannot even leave Islam, on punishment of death. 

So how is any of that a choice?

Its time people started to think and care for women and stop thinking beliefs based on ignorance and sexism deserve any defense

 

An unfounded fear born from written claims by men, made into a book

That is not being free to choose, but commanded to or suffer the consequences.

Thus fear is the driving factor that has made people believe in religion for thousands of years.

They fear the unknown and then men have played off that fear, but capitalizing on that forming commands claimed to come from a God.

Those aren't points Didge. That's commentary. Actually more like a rant but I'm being generous.

If you want structured debate then fine, start making actual points. As in, brief concise statements (just in case, you're too stupid to know the definition).

No there fundamentally show you are offering up now a copout and then claim structured lol


Try again last chance

Wetsuits are not what people wear on the beach but use in diving

Have you tried diving in this garment?

Love to see how you would get on with the water where its colder of course, so that view is just blatantly absurd, as the diving suot is for a specific purpose. This garment is born from the religious subjugation and control of men

Same questions go to you that has been made in replies and it surpises me not at all that you defend covering up women, as if they should be ashamed of how they look. This is what you believe in the views of backward men who wrote a book, that you were naive to buy thinking something claimed to have such supreme intelligence would offer up such ridiculous forms of control on women.
Only the emotive state of a human who lacks infinate intelligence would create such absurtity

Muslims are not a race and anyone Muslim of any ethnicity can wear this.
Its about liberating women, where you want to them to remain shackled

Main points again








Its not about what people wear but that they are made to believe they have to where. Due to a belief its compulsory and that they will be punished in an after life if they do not wear.

The same principle applies to wear many think they have to segregate based on a belief and a fear, that if they do not, they will be punished and not only in a make belief life but in this life in some countries.

The same used to happen to women who had to cover their heads in churches

The choice is not on wearing the item, but the choice is made on what doctrine of faith they have decided to follow.

The garment is a symbol of oppression designed and created by men to control women and is found worn by a huge majority in places where women are subjugated and oppressed by men through doctrines like Wahhabism.

So as I stated before, to attend some schools, they have a compulsory school uniform.
If that child fails to wear the correct uniform, they are disciplined. From anything from a detention to being sent home.

The same principle applies here. The belief is indoctrinated that they have to wear, or that their Deity will be displeased and they will suffer in the after life. So fear is being used to make women wrongly believe they have to wear. Even worse is when this is drummed and forced onto a child growing up. Making them have the belief they want to wear something as it gets them a pass into their heaven.

So again for the leftist islamism appeasers here. This is an Islamist garment, from political islam, forced onto many, where only in the west some wrongly believe its choice. Were as seen, its not a choice, when you already believe you will suffer in a belief of the after life if you do not wear.

When are lefties going to stop encouraging a garment designed to subjugate women and thus support and back backward beliefs.
By advocating support of this barbaric outfit, you support then those nations that punish women over this.

Many Muslim women cannot even leave their doctrine of Islam, due to how then the family would ostracize them or even worse could happen to some. Where in some Muslim countries where this is prevalent, women cannot even leave Islam, on punishment of death. 

So how is any of that a choice?

Its time people started to think and care for women and stop thinking beliefs based on ignorance and sexism deserve any defense
An unfounded fear born from written claims by men, made into a book

That is not being free to choose, but commanded to or suffer the consequences.

Thus fear is the driving factor that has made people believe in religion for thousands of years.

They fear the unknown and then men have played off that fear, but capitalizing on that forming commands claimed to come from a God

HoratioTarr wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

No worries Cass

I think it's the height of idiocy that those screaming "oppression" want to force women not to wear a garment.

Of course nobody would give a shit if it was another religion.

Which other religion forces women to wear a full body covering?

And I'll ask again, why is it that women must cover up and not men?   Give me one logical reason.

A small sect of Jews also do so, around a 100 orthodox Jews in Israel, both men and women wear and again equally absurd and wrong

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_burqa_sect

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Stormee wrote:ALL muzzzzizzz should be banned from here, gard or no gard because when the sh** hits the fan they will be HARDCORE muzzzzizzzz through and through, NO MODERATES, they will stick together.
Anyone doubts twill happen are sleepwalking to disaster.

Shame you're too gutless to do anything about it. You scummy little cun-t.

So not only a potty mouth but all you can do is offer insults unable to actually answer a single poster on here and yet again defend the neoconservative political Islam, that makes woman believe they will be punished if they do not cover their beauty. You know the beauty that supposedly this deity created and now claims, they are at fault for this beauty and now must cover themselves. This is based on the gibberish of the Abrahamic faiths because he created another flaw in men. Where they cannot keep their hands to themselves. So because of this design flaw, he now blames women and forces them to cover up or being punished due to his own failure in creating men as pervs. So men have God aid this imperfections, by placing the blame and emphasis on women to cover up and not that the men should learn to control their desires just as countless other men already do.