Should the Burkini be banned?

by HoratioTarr Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:38 am

First topic message reminder :

I can't imagine anything more uncomfortable on the beach, and the most ridiculous garment.

Is M & S wrong for selling it?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3519932/Bin-burkini-M-S-launches-UK-burkini-Muslim-writer-YASMIN-ALIBHAI-BROWN-says-insidious-Islamification-fashion-terrible-blow-women.html

by Raggamuffin Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:02 am

Is there a rule to say that posters should not be able to "get out of answering difficult points"?

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:08 am

Raggamuffin wrote:Is there a rule to say that posters should not be able to "get out of answering difficult points"?

There is a principle when debating

I suggest you watch some debates and see how when someone is unable to answer a question how the audiance will react

As i say, its setting a cowardly precedence by Eddie to allow people to get out of difficult points, thus censuring debate

hence she can take a running jump
Or I will leave because i am not going to stay where debate is censored.

by Raggamuffin Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:29 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Is there a rule to say that posters should not be able to "get out of answering difficult points"?

There is a principle when debating

I suggest you watch some debates and see how when someone is unable to answer a question how the audiance will react

As i say, its setting a cowardly precedence by Eddie to allow people to get out of difficult points, thus censuring debate

hence she can take a running jump
Or I will leave because i am not going to stay where debate is censored.

I can only speak for myself, but I've seen all your points before - several times - and my answer will be the same as before, followed by another post from you saying I'm "wrong", and that I "failed", so there's not much point.

As for your threat to leave, well I'm not going to talk you out of that. Laughing

by HoratioTarr Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:30 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:Well I would love to see how many Non- Muslims take up and buy this Rags?

I doubt even many Muslims would buy this.

Maybe not such a drastic version, but I think that quite a lot of women would like to see swimwear which isn't quite so revealing. Swimwear is multifunctional really, unless you're literally going to a swimming pool for a swim. If you're on a beach, they're also for sunbathing, or keeping cooler, or to impress other people if they think they have a nice figure. However, some women do burn and they like to cover up a bit more - even in the sea or an outside pool. Some women who are a bit heavier don't necessarily want to expose themselves too much. It's not necessarily because others will judge them - they just don't like the flabby bits themselves. It's also not that easy to get a bikini or swimsuit to fit properly for some women.

Just as equally, a woman has a right to wear what she pleases without being branded a whore. I agree that older women would prefer to cover up, but it's not forced on them. It's more about their own personal decorum. Sadly, the use of the full body veil doesn't come from a place of choice. What people often do when they are oppressed is take that oppression and make it their own, fooling themselves that in doing so, they've taken back some personal power.

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:34 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

There is a principle when debating

I suggest you watch some debates and see how when someone is unable to answer a question how the audiance will react

As i say, its setting a cowardly precedence by Eddie to allow people to get out of difficult points, thus censuring debate

hence she can take a running jump
Or I will leave because i am not going to stay where debate is censored.

I can only speak for myself, but I've seen all your points before - several times - and my answer will be the same as before, followed by another post from you saying I'm "wrong", and that I "failed", so there's not much point.

As for your threat to leave, well I'm not going to talk you out of that.

Again more feeble excuses and even worse and what is the most pathetic situation is Eddie is being manipulated by you.

Again you will remain being wrong until you counter them

Its as simple as that

I am sure you want me to leave mainly as i continually show up your ignorance

Well if Eddie maintains her stupidity on this, you will have your wish and be free get out of difficult debates.

As Eddie once again invents rules to protect you

Starting to think Eddie is as prejudiced as you are

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:35 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Maybe not such a drastic version, but I think that quite a lot of women would like to see swimwear which isn't quite so revealing. Swimwear is multifunctional really, unless you're literally going to a swimming pool for a swim. If you're on a beach, they're also for sunbathing, or keeping cooler, or to impress other people if they think they have a nice figure. However, some women do burn and they like to cover up a bit more - even in the sea or an outside pool. Some women who are a bit heavier don't necessarily want to expose themselves too much. It's not necessarily because others will judge them - they just don't like the flabby bits themselves. It's also not that easy to get a bikini or swimsuit to fit properly for some women.

Just as equally, a woman has a right to wear what she pleases without being branded a whore. I agree that older women would prefer to cover up, but it's not forced on them. It's more about their own personal decorum. Sadly, the use of the full body veil doesn't come from a place of choice. What people often do when they are oppressed is take that oppression and make it their own, fooling themselves that in doing so, they've taken back some personal power.

Women are branded, dissected, poked fun at, criticised and labelled whatever they wear or don't wear. FGS, leave it to them to decide.

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:37 am

sassy wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Just as equally, a woman has a right to wear what she pleases without being branded a whore. I agree that older women would prefer to cover up, but it's not forced on them. It's more about their own personal decorum. Sadly, the use of the full body veil doesn't come from a place of choice. What people often do when they are oppressed is take that oppression and make it their own, fooling themselves that in doing so, they've taken back some personal power.

Women are branded, dissected, poked fun at, criticised and labelled whatever they wear or don't wear. FGS, leave it to them to decide.

Yet again failing to understand that women are indoctrinated to believe through fear of punishment in the after life to wear

You do nothing to liberate women,, but wish to back neoconservative political islam

by Raggamuffin Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:38 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Maybe not such a drastic version, but I think that quite a lot of women would like to see swimwear which isn't quite so revealing. Swimwear is multifunctional really, unless you're literally going to a swimming pool for a swim. If you're on a beach, they're also for sunbathing, or keeping cooler, or to impress other people if they think they have a nice figure. However, some women do burn and they like to cover up a bit more - even in the sea or an outside pool. Some women who are a bit heavier don't necessarily want to expose themselves too much. It's not necessarily because others will judge them - they just don't like the flabby bits themselves. It's also not that easy to get a bikini or swimsuit to fit properly for some women.

Just as equally, a woman has a right to wear what she pleases without being branded a whore. I agree that older women would prefer to cover up, but it's not forced on them. It's more about their own personal decorum. Sadly, the use of the full body veil doesn't come from a place of choice. What people often do when they are oppressed is take that oppression and make it their own, fooling themselves that in doing so, they've taken back some personal power.

You can't stop people saying things about anyone though - whether they're underdressed or overdressed. The only thing to do is to not care about it really, and that's down to individual women. I've been laughed at for not stripping off on a beach, but I didn't care.

I don't think that Muslim women who wear burkas or burkinis are being forced to wear them - that's where we differ. I think they're choosing to wear them. It's probably a cultural thing, or perhaps they're just not used to used to exposing their face or body. Only they can choose to change that - if they want to.

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:40 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Just as equally, a woman has a right to wear what she pleases without being branded a whore. I agree that older women would prefer to cover up, but it's not forced on them. It's more about their own personal decorum. Sadly, the use of the full body veil doesn't come from a place of choice. What people often do when they are oppressed is take that oppression and make it their own, fooling themselves that in doing so, they've taken back some personal power.

You can't stop people saying things about anyone though - whether they're underdressed or overdressed. The only thing to do is to not care about it really, and that's down to individual women. I've been laughed at for not stripping off on a beach, but I didn't care.

I don't think that Muslim women who wear burkas or burkinis are being forced to wear them - that's where we differ. I think they're choosing to wear them. It's probably a cultural thing, or perhaps they're just not used to used to exposing their face or body. Only they can choose to change that - if they want to.

Which shows why you cannot answer my points

They are wearing them based off a fear.
The question is would they wear if there was not a belief they will suffer in an after life?
If they are wearing based on a fear in the after life, that is not a choice.
The choice is then on believing in that deity
To leave the faith means their certain death in some Muslim countries

How is that a choice?

Answer me that?

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:41 am

Is the dodgy one still spamming?

by Raggamuffin Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:41 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You can't stop people saying things about anyone though - whether they're underdressed or overdressed. The only thing to do is to not care about it really, and that's down to individual women. I've been laughed at for not stripping off on a beach, but I didn't care.

I don't think that Muslim women who wear burkas or burkinis are being forced to wear them - that's where we differ. I think they're choosing to wear them. It's probably a cultural thing, or perhaps they're just not used to used to exposing their face or body. Only they can choose to change that - if they want to.

Which shows why you cannot answer my points

They are wearing them based off a fear.
The question is would they wear if there was not a belief they will suffer in an after life?

Answer me that?

I wasn't actually addressing you, I was addressing Horatio.

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:42 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

Which shows why you cannot answer my points

They are wearing them based off a fear.
The question is would they wear if there was not a belief they will suffer in an after life?

Answer me that?

I wasn't actually addressing you, I was addressing Horatio.

And?

Is this another invented rule i cannot respond to any post

i can answer any post, which again you fail to answer

Quelle surprise

by Raggamuffin Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:42 am

sassy wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Just as equally, a woman has a right to wear what she pleases without being branded a whore. I agree that older women would prefer to cover up, but it's not forced on them. It's more about their own personal decorum. Sadly, the use of the full body veil doesn't come from a place of choice. What people often do when they are oppressed is take that oppression and make it their own, fooling themselves that in doing so, they've taken back some personal power.

Women are branded, dissected, poked fun at, criticised and labelled whatever they wear or don't wear. FGS, leave it to them to decide.

I do have to agree with that. I don't think there's much point banning people from saying negative things about others - the only way to deal with it is to not care - something one learns as one gets older. Laughing

by Raggamuffin Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:45 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I wasn't actually addressing you, I was addressing Horatio.

And?

Is this another invented rule i cannot respond to any post

i can answer any post, which again you fail to answer

Quelle surprise

Look, once again I'm tired of your overbearing attitude. If you were more polite, maybe you'd get more response. It's up to you.

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:47 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

And?

Is this another invented rule i cannot respond to any post

i can answer any post, which again you fail to answer

Quelle surprise

Look, once again I'm tired of your overbearing attitude. If you were more polite, maybe you'd get more response. It's up to you.

lol yet more feeble excuses as to not answer

Seriously 101 ways by Rags to avoid answering.

PMSL

I suggest you put up or you are wrong

Its that simple

by Raggamuffin Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:52 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Look, once again I'm tired of your overbearing attitude. If you were more polite, maybe you'd get more response. It's up to you.

lol yet more feeble excuses as to not answer

Seriously 101 ways by Rags to avoid answering.

PMSL

I suggest you put up or you are wrong

Its that simple

You can't force me to address your points Didge. If I ignore them and you keep on and on, you'll end up spamming the thread and disrupting it. Just wait for someone else who doesn't mind you being obnoxious.

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:54 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

lol yet more feeble excuses as to not answer

Seriously 101 ways by Rags to avoid answering.

PMSL

I suggest you put up or you are wrong

Its that simple

You can't force me to address your points Didge. If I ignore them and you keep on and on, you'll end up spamming the thread and disrupting it. Just wait for someone else who doensn't mind you being obnoxious.

Excuse number 102

If you fail to answer, and continue to offer up excuses, the most pathetic I have seen for sometime

It simply is an admission by you that you cannot answer them

So the more you continue to come up with excuses, the more i am going to rip the shit out of you as i am doing now ha ha ha

Laughing

i asked you simple question two posts back, and it left you flapping like a fish out of water

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:54 am

Spam.

by Raggamuffin Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:56 am

sassy wrote:Spam.

I'll ignore him, and if he harasses me again, I'll report him.

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:58 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
sassy wrote:Spam.

I'll ignore him, and if he harasses me again, I'll report him.

Excuse number 103

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:59 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
sassy wrote:Spam.

I'll ignore him, and if he harasses me again, I'll report him.

Well, you can always live in hope.

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:00 pm

sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I'll ignore him, and if he harasses me again, I'll report him.

Well, you can always live in hope.

But Bob hope is dead???

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:06 pm

So I have to laugh, they continually keep posting me but fail to answer any of my posts. So when all else fails, they go crying to admin with the false charge of harrassment
PMSL

Its so poor and pathetic, being the worst form of manipulation of the Mods

It cannot be harassment if replying to posts

by Raggamuffin Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:07 pm

eddie wrote:Look didge I am not arguing that certain aspects of any religion aren't stupid - they are - rosaries and Hail Marys for instance! Ridiculous IMO but I think you're mistake when you believe that most Muslim women dress out of fear, yes a small percentage as in every religion, are probably fearful.

Look at the Orthodox Jews: the men aren't allowed to look at non-Jewish women! They must avert their eyes. I find it stupid and also unnecessary but that's what they believe so leave them to it.

Some people get comfort from rosaries and Hail Marys though, so they're not stupid to them.

The issue about some Jewish men could cause them problems in employment of course. If they go into customer service and can't look at women, they'll probably be in trouble. If they have their own business, women might boycott them if they feel offended by the averting of the eyes. Laughing

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:08 pm

Prayer, people thinking someone is listening to them, when nobody is.

by Raggamuffin Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:17 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
eddie wrote:As I've said many many times, and as Zack has confirmed many, many times....these women wear the hijab or burkha or burkhini because they want to!

Most are not 'told' to wear them.

I don't find them threatening or bothersome, and I simply don't have a problem with how anyone chooses to dress.

They 'want' to because they've been indoctrinated into believing it's the norm. There's an element of appeasement going on, appeasement to Islam, to their society, to men. They think that by doing so, they become better people, women who won't shame the menfolk. By selling this garment, Marks and Spencer are condoning the subjugation of women. And that's what the 'veil' is. A garment of control. If it wasn't, then men would also cover themselves.

At a more extreme level, how would you feel if a major store starting selling special blades for FGM?

They wouldn't be able to do that in the UK because it's illegal here.

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:21 pm

Ahhhh so if something is illegal, then its not okay.......

by Fuzzy Zack Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:59 pm

https://youtu.be/mgw6y3cH7tA

by Fuzzy Zack Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:00 pm

https://youtu.be/_WosD_GTz_E

by Fuzzy Zack Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:02 pm

https://youtu.be/3XiG6FxkHEc

by Fuzzy Zack Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:03 pm

https://youtu.be/G9OdDLRIkws

by Syl Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:11 pm

Leaving aside the cultural aspect of the burkini, if someone popular and famous is pictured wearing one, you can bet other women will follow.
Nigella looked a bit of a mess, but if someone who looked like Rita Ora wore one they would soon start to sell.

Couple that with some people are allergic to sun creams ...or simply cant be bothered with applying it every couple of hours, so they wear long flowy kaftans, hats etc on the beach....the burkini would cover everything ...so one item instead of several would do the job well.

by Miffs2 Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:13 pm

What are they made of?
Bet they are heavy when wet, drowning hazard I would say Razz

by Syl Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:37 pm

Miffs2 wrote:What are they made of?
Bet they are heavy when wet, drowning hazard I would say

Good point....this lady has the right idea. Should the Burkini be banned? - Page 3 Burkini

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:28 pm

Believe the M&S ones are quick drying, have protection from UV rays and are made from the same materials as clothing for surfing.

by Miffs2 Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:28 pm

Oooh can you imagine how they would chafe after a while! Especially if wet and full of sand. Should the Burkini be banned? - Page 3 1681210668

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:41 pm

Quick question for Nems and Syl

Have you ever done a life saving swimming course?

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:44 pm

Miffs2 wrote:Oooh can you imagine how they would chafe after a while! Especially if wet and full of sand.

Don't see why, surfing gear doesn't.

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:49 pm

sassy wrote:
Miffs2 wrote:Oooh can you imagine how they would chafe after a while! Especially if wet and full of sand.

Don't see why, surfing gear doesn't.

That is because they generally wear a wet suit

The point is actually this outfit could be used as an improvised float.
People will know what I mean if they have ever done swimming life saving.
She would have to remove the outfit to create an improvised float if in trouble.

The one factor where it will not help is with keeping the body heat maintain as a wet suit does in water.

by Miffs2 Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:54 pm

Didge wrote:
sassy wrote:

Don't see why, surfing gear doesn't.

That is because they generally wear a wet suit

The point is actually this outfit could be used as an improvised float.
People will know what I mean if they have ever done swimming life saving.
She would have to remove the outfit to create an improvised float if in trouble.

The one factor where it will not help is with keeping the body heat maintain as a wet suit does in water.

She wouldn't be allowed to take it off for a float, so she would have to drown I guess.
Same as the women who die because paramedics etc can't touch them.

by Syl Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:13 pm

How many women who dress for the beach intend to swim in deep water?
I notice that on almost every holiday we go on few women actually go in the sea deeper than their waists.

by Miffs2 Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:18 pm

Syl wrote:How many women who dress for the beach intend to swim in deep water?
I notice that on almost every holiday we go on few women actually go in the sea deeper than their waists.

Most of them don't want to get their hair wet!

by Syl Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:27 pm

Another plus for the burkini then....no one would see your wet hair. Cool

by Miffs2 Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:36 pm

Syl wrote:Another plus for the burkini then....no one would see your wet hair.

True!

by stardesk Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:09 pm

Hi folks. Let's set the record straight. Muslim women cover up because of Mohammed's wife, who covered up when there was a knock at their door. Since then it seems to have become a religious rule. Even the Catholic church had a similar ruling, women had to cover their heads before going into a church. I think they still do.

Although it would seem to be a cultural habit it is based on religious reasons.

by veya_victaous Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:04 am

Miffs2 wrote:Oooh can you imagine how they would chafe after a while! Especially if wet and full of sand.

actually the rash suit material is designed to do the opposite
you get a rash from body boarding in the sandy salt water shirtless
the material prevents it

by veya_victaous Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:08 am

Didge wrote:Well I would love to see how many Non- Muslims take up and buy this Rags?

I doubt even many Muslims would buy this.

MY MUM you TWAT
and most of her friends and they are not Muslim.
My god you are such an ass,
Older women with fair skin like it
as you can swim it

So they are selling for non cultral non religous reason PURE practical reasons

by veya_victaous Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:10 am

maybe it should be banned in the Uk
Since you dont have any Sunlight
and it is never warm enough to swim
tongue

by Guest Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:25 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Didge wrote:Well I would love to see how many Non- Muslims take up and buy this Rags?

I doubt even many Muslims would buy this.

MY MUM you TWAT
and most of her friends and they are not Muslim.
My god you are such an ass,
Older women with fair skin like it
as you can swim it

So they are selling for non cultral non religous reason PURE practical reasons

Bullshit.....

by Guest Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:27 am

veya_victaous wrote:maybe it should be banned in the Uk
Since you dont have any Sunlight
and it is never warm enough to swim

Maybe you should stop backing a neoconservative Political Islamist garment that seeks to subjugate women through a belief they are at fault for their beauty to the sexual desires of men.
You know a deity creates men and women, then clearly admits to a fault with the men, blames the women and demands they cover up fully.

Of course its all a crock of shit and its just men controlling women with man made commands played off fear and you support that

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