Riot Police Use Tear Gas, Water Cannons Against Refugees in Hungary

First topic message reminder :

police giving back some tear gas

http://abcnews.go.com/International/riot-police-tear-gas-water-cannons-refugees-hungary/story?id=33797603

Raggamuffin wrote:I reported Didge for spamming and for badgering me.

How about discussing the actual issues?

Didge is discussing the issue!

He's asking about your opinion on this!!!!!!

Raggamuffin wrote:I reported Didge for spamming and for badgering me.

How about discussing the actual issues?

Simple you have no forum decorum
You ask questions which are answered then evade them when asked of you.
So why could you not answer a simple question?
Is it because it would have made you a hypocrite that it would have left you in a position you would have had to defend against religious discrmination? Thus nulifying all your points so far?

Hence why for Eddie to jump in was protecting your from being caught out
That is pathetic

Cuchulain wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

No they are not
And you will not change her mind like this unfortunately

Leave it Didge x

Sexy there comes a point when you have to make a stand.
Jesus if everyone reported over how they felt uncomfortable, there would be countless reports everyday
Eddie is inventing nonsense to defend what was nothing more than a simple question which Rags evaded
I am making a stand on this and its not the first time Eddie has done this.

x

No it isn't and she will do it again!

Some people take these things far to seriously and the power gets to their damn head!

Fifa my title just got changed to something that didn't even sound right!

Lololol

Didge did the same post at least 12 times - I would call that spamming and badgering.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


Sexy there comes a point when you have to make a stand.
Jesus if everyone reported over how they felt uncomfortable, there would be countless reports everyday
Eddie is inventing nonsense to defend what was nothing more than a simple question which Rags evaded
I am making a stand on this and its not the first time Eddie has done this.

x

No it isn't and she will do it again!

Some people take these things far to seriously and the power gets to their damn head!

Fifa my title just got changed to something that didn't even sound right!

Lololol

I know sexy, the point is Rags was caught in a trap.
If she agreed religious discrmination was right she goes against her own principles.
If she agreed it was discrmination it made her whole argument void

She knew this and went running to Eddie, so I do not buy any nonsense it made her uncomfortable,. sadly Eddie bought that.

Raggamuffin wrote:Didge did the same post at least 12 times - I would call that spamming and badgering.

He asked you for your opinion on this issue!

You keep avoiding it. Of course you are fully entitled to do so

But then you can't ask us to go back to the topic if you avoid it yourself!

History and experience tells me that Didge likes to badger people for a laugh - he admits it. I was merely reporting the fact that he was doing so - which constituted spamming also.

I will not tolerate that from him, and will report him if he does it again.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Didge did the same post at least 12 times - I would call that spamming and badgering.

He asked you for your opinion on this issue!

You keep avoiding it. Of course you are fully entitled to do so

But then you can't ask us to go back to the topic if you avoid it yourself!

I answered it. He's not interested in my opinion anyway - he never is, he just wants to start an argument.

I'm also not interested in your defence of that arrogant twat. Is that clear?

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Didge did the same post at least 12 times - I would call that spamming and badgering.

He asked you for your opinion on this issue!

You keep avoiding it. Of course you are fully entitled to do so

But then you can't ask us to go back to the topic if you avoid it yourself!

Excatly, if someone refuses to enage points, they have forgone any right to ask other points on the debate to others

Anyway I mde my point and its very clear why Rags refused to answer, she was stuck in a trap and she knew it

I have said my peace

Raggamuffin wrote:History and experience tells me that Didge likes to badger people for a laugh - he admits it. I was merely reporting the fact that he was doing so - which constituted spamming also.

I will not tolerate that from him, and will report him if he does it again.

I have told him to stop asking you the same question you have no intention of answering!

Cuchulain wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

He asked you for your opinion on this issue!

You keep avoiding it. Of course you are fully entitled to do so

But then you can't ask us to go back to the topic if you avoid it yourself!

Excatly, if someone refuses to enage points, they have forgone any right to ask other points on the debate to others

Anyway I mde my point and its very clear why Rags refused to answer, she was stuck in a trap and she knew it

I have said my peace

You mean "piece". There's nothing peaceful about you.

Raggamuffin wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

He asked you for your opinion on this issue!

You keep avoiding it. Of course you are fully entitled to do so

But then you can't ask us to go back to the topic if you avoid it yourself!

I answered it. He's not interested in my opinion anyway - he never is, he just wants to start an argument.

I'm also not interested in your defence of that arrogant twat. Is that clear?

Show me where you answered, where you either agreed or disagreed?

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:History and experience tells me that Didge likes to badger people for a laugh - he admits it. I was merely reporting the fact that he was doing so - which constituted spamming also.

I will not tolerate that from him, and will report him if he does it again.

I have told him to stop asking you the same question you have no intention of answering!

Good for you.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


Excatly, if someone refuses to enage points, they have forgone any right to ask other points on the debate to others

Anyway I mde my point and its very clear why Rags refused to answer, she was stuck in a trap and she knew it

I have said my peace

You mean "piece". There's nothing peaceful about you.

It can work with both

Mine is peace of mind

The issue is what the Hungarians think, what the Slovaks think, and what other countries think, isn't it? It doesn't matter what I think, and the question was not a simple one if you take into the account the cultural issues in the countries in question.

If a Muslim country decided they only wanted Muslim refugees, that is also up to them.

Raggamuffin wrote:The issue is what the Hungarians think, what the Slovaks think, and what other countries think, isn't it? It doesn't matter what I think, and the question was not a simple one if you take into the account the cultural issues in the countries in question.

If a Muslim country decided they only wanted Muslim refugees, that is also up to them.

No it isn't.

They cannot discriminate like this!

The debate os over Rags, you put paid to that when you evaded points

You then have no right to pose anything when you avoid

Its over

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:The issue is what the Hungarians think, what the Slovaks think, and what other countries think, isn't it? It doesn't matter what I think, and the question was not a simple one if you take into the account the cultural issues in the countries in question.

If a Muslim country decided they only wanted Muslim refugees, that is also up to them.

No it isn't.

They cannot discriminate like this!

She will not answer questions, what is the point?

Let her have the last word

To me she when evaded my question she failed with all her points

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:The issue is what the Hungarians think, what the Slovaks think, and what other countries think, isn't it? It doesn't matter what I think, and the question was not a simple one if you take into the account the cultural issues in the countries in question.

If a Muslim country decided they only wanted Muslim refugees, that is also up to them.

No it isn't.

They cannot discriminate like this!

Well it is IMO. You can't force countries to take in people they don't connect with.

Raggamuffin wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

No it isn't.

They cannot discriminate like this!

Well it is IMO. You can't force countries to take in people they don't connect with.

Yes you can by law.

This planet doesn't belong to one particular race or religion we all live in it.

No one friggin owns a country

This is the mindset Israel has!

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well it is IMO. You can't force countries to take in people they don't connect with.

Yes you can by law.

This planet doesn't belong to one particular race or religion we all live in it.

No one friggin owns a country

This is the mindset Israel has!

You can't by law. How is anyone going to force a Muslim country to take in non-Muslims, for example? You could bomb them into submission I guess.

When it comes to law within the EU, well we see how the whole thing is falling apart don't we? In fact, it was supposed to be a voluntary thing anyway whether countries took refugees or not. If they can't have who they want, they could refuse to have any at all.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well it is IMO. You can't force countries to take in people they don't connect with.

Yes you can by law.

This planet doesn't belong to one particular race or religion we all live in it.

No one friggin owns a country

This is the mindset Israel has!

As do the Palestinians in Hamas and Fatah

You cannot blame one without blaming the other for both arguing the same.

Both have no religious right to a land, they do have a right to self determination.

So if a country has a right to self determination, they have a right to make their own rules, right?

Raggamuffin wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

No it isn't.

They cannot discriminate like this!

Well it is IMO. You can't force countries to take in people they don't connect with.

So now you are saying Hungarians shouldn't let these Syrians in because they won't CONNECT with them being Muslims????!

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well it is IMO. You can't force countries to take in people they don't connect with.

So now you are saying Hungarians shouldn't let these Syrians in because they won't CONNECT with them being Muslims????!

I'm saying that's what they appear to be saying. They appear to be afraid of ending up with too much Islamic influence.

Raggamuffin wrote:So if a country has a right to self determination, they have a right to make their own rules, right?

Based on equal rights for all.

So does that mean they cannot deny some on religion?

All should have equal rights under a law.

Do you understand that?

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Christie wrote:

As a genuine refugee, I know I would be going to the richest country possible that is able to provide me with the best start in a new life. It's not wrong to want that for you and your family.

Of course it isn't.

One wants what's best for them and their family!

Everyone wants what's best for themselves and their family... so what!?


Doesn't mean you can just march across countries and borders willy nilly and turn up anywhere in the world you want, then demand whatever you want and expect it to be given to you!!!



Currently the richest country in the world is Qatar... why aren't they all heading there!?

I like the way you write

Demand and get what you want!

Please elaborate these points Tommy

Tommy Monk wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Of course it isn't.

One wants what's best for them and their family!

Everyone wants what's best for themselves and their family... so what!?


Doesn't mean you can just march across countries and borders willy nilly and turn up anywhere in the world you want, then demand whatever you want and expect it to be given to you!!!



Currently the richest country in the world is Qatar... why aren't they all heading there!?

Point on Qater moot as they are not helping when they should, the point being they should be allowing refugees.
Just because some nation is ethically wrong does not mean another should be, hence an absurd arguments
People should be allowed to flee top nations where they feel safe and some of the most safet nations in the world are in Europe
You have no ethical right to decide based on your reasons, which are to deny helping people just as Qatar has no right to either,

Raggamuffin wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

So now you are saying Hungarians shouldn't let these Syrians in because they won't CONNECT with them being Muslims????!

I'm saying that's what they appear to be saying. They appear to be afraid of ending up with too much Islamic influence.

Lol

Really with a few thousand of them!

So they treat them like Animals in a cage!

Oh how civilised of them!

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:So at least two people have now admitted that this is about "refugees" wanting to go to the richest country. Isn't it supposed to be about them being in danger and "fleeing" for their lives?

It's both.

When you flee a country you go to a safe place first and then you move to what's best.

Everyone wants best for themselves.

Wrong... you do the best you can within that safe country... then if you want to go somewhere else then you do it by the rules like everyone else has to... you get a passport and apply to countries for visas and permission to travel there etc!!!

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I'm saying that's what they appear to be saying. They appear to be afraid of ending up with too much Islamic influence.

Lol

Really with a few thousand of them!

So they treat them like Animals in a cage!

Oh how civilised of them!

They simply built a fence - there is no cage.

Here is what the PM said.

"We don't want to, and I think we have a right to decide that we do not want a large number of Muslim people in our country," Orban said. "We do not like the consequences of having a large number of Muslim communities that we see in other countries, and I do not see any reason for anyone else to force us to create ways of living together in Hungary that we do not want to see. That is a historical experience for us."

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/9/3/hungary-prime-minister-says-Muslims-not-welcome-amid-refugee-crisis.html

Tommy Monk wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

It's both.

When you flee a country you go to a safe place first and then you move to what's best.

Everyone wants best for themselves.

Wrong... you do the best you can within that safe country... then if you want to go somewhere else then you do it by the rules like everyone else has to... you get a passport and apply to countries for visas and permission to travel there etc!!!

I don't think some people understand the concept of asylum or refugee status.

So other religious minorities are fine?

Lol

Bunch of fucking bastards

Raggamuffin wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Lol

Really with a few thousand of them!

So they treat them like Animals in a cage!

Oh how civilised of them!

They simply built a fence - there is no cage.

Here is what the PM said.

"We don't want to, and I think we have a right to decide that we do not want a large number of Muslim people in our country," Orban said. "We do not like the consequences of having a large number of Muslim communities that we see in other countries, and I do not see any reason for anyone else to force us to create ways of living together in Hungary that we do not want to see. That is a historical experience for us."

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/9/3/hungary-prime-minister-says-Muslims-not-welcome-amid-refugee-crisis.html

In many cases they have place them in temp camps, so you are again in error.
The second point is around 1 in 10 Syrians are Christians, let alone all those of other faiths fleeing from both Syria and Iraq, so cleraly the PM is using Muslims as an excuse to be barbaric.

Cuchulain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

They simply built a fence - there is no cage.

Here is what the PM said.



http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/9/3/hungary-prime-minister-says-Muslims-not-welcome-amid-refugee-crisis.html

In many cases they have place them in temp camps, so you are again in error.
The second point is around 1 in 10 Syrians are Christians, let alone all those of other faiths fleeing from both Syria and Iraq, so cleraly the PM is using Muslims as an excuse to be barbaric.

There is no error in my post.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:



In many cases they have place them in temp camps, so you are again in error.
The second point is around 1 in 10 Syrians are Christians, let alone all those of other faiths fleeing from both Syria and Iraq, so cleraly the PM is using Muslims as an excuse to be barbaric.

There is no error in my post.

Really are you claiming refugees a=have not been placed in temp incarceration like Stadiums for example?

SEXY MAMA wrote:So other religious minorities are fine?

Lol

Bunch of fucking bastards

Well they're trying to protect their culture, just as an Islamic country would try to protect their culture.

I make no comment on the rights or wrongs of that, but in small communities like in Alaska, for example, nobody says a word if they try to protect their own culture, do they?

Cuchulain wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Everyone wants what's best for themselves and their family... so what!?


Doesn't mean you can just march across countries and borders willy nilly and turn up anywhere in the world you want, then demand whatever you want and expect it to be given to you!!!



Currently the richest country in the world is Qatar... why aren't they all heading there!?

Point on Qater moot as they are not helping when they should, the point being they should be allowing refugees.
Just because some nation is ethically wrong does not mean another should be, hence an absurd arguments
People should be allowed to flee top nations where they feel safe and some of the most safet nations in the world are in Europe
You have no ethical right to decide based on your reasons, which are to deny helping people just as Qatar has no right to either,

How shameful of these bastards though not allowing these people. All these so called 'Muslim' rich bastards

I know they are not Muslims and hope they rot in hell.

Cuchulain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I reported Didge for spamming and for badgering me.

How about discussing the actual issues?

Simple you have no forum decorum
You ask questions which are answered then evade them when asked of you.
So why could you not answer a simple question?
Is it because it would have made you a hypocrite that it would have left you in a position you would have had to defend against religious discrmination? Thus nulifying all your points so far?

Hence why for Eddie to jump in was protecting your from being caught out
That is pathetic

Didge not everything is about you.

Rags made a report about a member she felt was badgering her, so I asked that poster to stop badgering her.
I have no idea why you think I'm on her side in this debate?
I'm not even IN the debate!

I'm acting upon a report.

Do you understand that Didge? This is not about you.

Tommy Monk wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

It's both.

When you flee a country you go to a safe place first and then you move to what's best.

Everyone wants best for themselves.

Wrong... you do the best you can within that safe country... then if you want to go somewhere else then you do it by the rules like everyone else has to... you get a passport and apply to countries for visas and permission to travel there etc!!!

Not if you're a refugee you don't.

To claim asylum in Europe, refugees have to get here first. To travel by ordinary lawful routes, these people are required to obtain visas. And there are no visas available for those who are seeking asylum.

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/truth-about-refugees#.VfshL1UVikq

Raggamuffin wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Lol

Really with a few thousand of them!

So they treat them like Animals in a cage!

Oh how civilised of them!

They simply built a fence - there is no cage.

Here is what the PM said.

"We don't want to, and I think we have a right to decide that we do not want a large number of Muslim people in our country," Orban said. "We do not like the consequences of having a large number of Muslim communities that we see in other countries, and I do not see any reason for anyone else to force us to create ways of living together in Hungary that we do not want to see. That is a historical experience for us."

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/9/3/hungary-prime-minister-says-Muslims-not-welcome-amid-refugee-crisis.html

No cages?

Syrian refugees escape their cages in Hungary and walk to Austria

Syrian refugee in a cage in Hungary
3 Sept 2015 | source: Sakir Khader

Hungary, which played a supporting role in Hitler's holocaust, has once again shown those fleeing persecution that its trains don't always take you were you want to go.

For weeks now Syria refugees fleeing Assad's campaign of "Death from Above" against civilians or ISIS rule in other areas, had been crowding around the Keleti train station. The surge in people rushing to cross the Hungarian border has been prompted by the construction an new 120 mile razor wire fence designed to stop them as well as draconian new penalties for anyone who tries. The right-wing government of Hungary doesn't like Muslims, doesn't like Arabs, and doesn't like refugees. They have done their best to make these people feel unwelcome. Friday they enacted new laws that penalize crossing the border with a 2 year prison sentence. Prime Minister Viktor Orban says he is taking these measures to preserve Europe as a Christian continent.

None of the Syrian refugees want to stay in Hungary. Most are trying to get to Germany, which feels a special duty towards people fleeing holocaust and has graciously opened her its doors to them. Germany has promise to accept as many as 800,000 Syrian refugees this year as compared to less than 1500 taken in by the US in four years. They found themselves camped out at the train station because the Hungarian officials won't allow them board trains and leave. Many had purchased tickets to Vienna or beyond, and some had already boarded trains, when the Hungarians made the refugees get off the trains and then stopped the trains altogether. Hungarian railway operator MAV said Thursday that it had stopped the trains "for safety reasons." The Syrians were marooned at the station. Hungary didn't want them to come into the county but then it wouldn't let them leave.

After having first stopped the trains, on Thursday they acted as though they were allowing the trains to proceed. Happy refugees got on board, thinking they were finally getting out of Hungary, but it was a trick. Instead they were taken to detention camps near Bicske and many were locked up in cages. Its an old trick that they've used before. This is how CNN reported the story at that point:

Europe's migrant crisis: Chaos as trains are stopped in Hungary

By Arwa Damon and Laura Smith-Spark
Updated 3:56 PM ET, Thu September 3, 2015
Bicske, Hungary (CNN)Chaotic scenes erupted Thursday as trains packed with Syrian refugees were halted at a station outside the Hungarian capital, Budapest, in the latest setback for desperate families seeking to reach Western Europe.

Police gathered at the side of the track as the trains abruptly stopped at Bicske.

A CNN crew on one of the trains said the families -- who boarded hoping to travel to Austria or ultimately Germany -- were refusing to get off despite suffocating heat and limited food and water.

Some youths and men were holding on to the handles of train cars in case police attempted to board and remove them forcibly. Meanwhile, parents fanned their crying children in an attempt to cool them down.

Tents and desks had been set up near the station in what the migrants feared was a relocation camp to transfer them to a nearby refugee center. More...

The people refused to leave the train or be transferred to a detention camp. They named their train the "Freedom Train" and attempts to remove them were met with chants of "No Camp! No Camp!"

http://claysbeach.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/syrian-refugees-escape-their-cages-in.html

It's absolutely shocking the way these people are being treated. The Serbs don't want them and the Hungarian's won't take them so they're stuck.

I very much doubt these people want to claim asylum in Hungary and are just looking for safe passage to Germany or wherever else the wish to go to do that. Maybe some did to start with but I doubt after this that Hungary figures high on their list to settle in.
The Hungarian's should remember 1956 when Soviet tanks rolled into Budapest.



Give them transport to the German border where they will be taken in and looked after.

Raggamuffin wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:So other religious minorities are fine?

Lol

Bunch of fucking bastards

Well they're trying to protect their culture, just as an Islamic country would try to protect their culture.

I make no comment on the rights or wrongs of that, but in small communities like in Alaska, for example, nobody says a word if they try to protect their own culture, do they?

What?

Ever heard of the Ottoman Empire?
How is tens of thousands going to change their culture, when many people assimilate and have done from European countries where many Muslims have actually been for centuries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Hungary

Doesn't mean you can just march across countries and borders willy nilly and turn up anywhere in the world you want, then demand whatever you want and expect it to be given to you!!!



Currently the richest country in the world is Qatar... why aren't they all heading there!?




Why aren't they just marching into Qatar or Saudi Arabia and making their demands there...!?

An Egyptian billionaire is buying an Island near Greece for these refugees!

These are the sort of people that restore my faith in humanity.

Some countries are alarmed at the sheer number of refugees, and since Germany invited them all in, there are even more. They might not have the resources to lay on transport for them, or they might be afraid that they will be overwhelmed by the numbers. That's what some of them have said - that they are being overwhelmed.

Irn Bru wrote:It's absolutely shocking the way these people are being treated. The Serbs don't want them and the Hungarian's won't take them so they're stuck.

I very much doubt these people want to claim asylum in Hungary and are just looking for safe passage to Germany or wherever else the wish to go to do that. Maybe some did to start with but I doubt after this that Hungary figures high on their list to settle in.
The Hungarian's should remember 1956 when Soviet tanks rolled into Budapest.



Give them transport to the German border where they will be taken in and looked after.

They were also taken in by Canada, Ireland, UK, Australia, and these were some that went to Switzerland

What would Serbia do for them?

The Siege of Sarajevo

The Srebrenica massacre

Look them up - Genocide

Irn Bru wrote:It's absolutely shocking the way these people are being treated. The Serbs don't want them and the Hungarian's won't take them so they're stuck.

I very much doubt these people want to claim asylum in Hungary and are just looking for safe passage to Germany or wherever else the wish to go to do that. Maybe some did to start with but I doubt after this that Hungary figures high on their list to settle in.
The Hungarian's should remember 1956 when Soviet tanks rolled into Budapest.



Give them transport to the German border where they will be taken in and looked after.

Very good point Irn, but they easily forget and as I have just shown Muslims have had a history in Hungary for centuries