EU in or out forum Poll

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

EU in or out

[Tommy Monk]

That is just more fear mongering and bullshit!!!

[Guest]

That is France saying what "is" going to happen

That is not scaring but telling the Uk straight what"will" happen.

[Raggamuffin]

Now that's a valid point, and should be considered when deciding how to vote. If we have no agreement with the French, the UK will be forced to accept these refugees, or close the tunnel.

[Cass]

I agree with Handy and Lez so I voted to stay in.

[Tommy Monk]

That is not what is going to happen at all!!!


The deal to have uk border agency staff at the French side is nothing to do with the eu and not dependent on us being in the eu or not!!!

The choice is simple... stay in the eu and have open door to 500 million people and be a vassel state to an unwanted federal dictatorship or leave and get back control over our country/laws/borders etc so we can reduce immigration to tens of thousands!!!

[Tommy Monk]

I agree with Handy and Lez so I voted to stay in.

What exactly is it that each of them have said that you agree with...?


If you don't mind me asking..?

[Guest]

Tommy again claiming something he cannot guarantee

What a surprise

The deal is nothing to do with the EU for border controls, but France just made it a precondition of the EU referendum, the point you glaringly miss

[Tommy Monk]

So a threat in other words...!?


Well bollocks to them!!!

[Guest]

Well there is your answer everyone, lol.

Tommy would send the UK into economic Siberia

Errrr we need to make trade agreements with them if we leave, so its not a case of fuck them

[Raggamuffin]

So a threat in other words...!?


Well bollocks to them!!!

Have you seen this thread Tommy?

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t14478-france-will-let-thousands-of-migrants-refugees-enter-uk-if-uk-leaves-the-eu

[Tommy Monk]

Not yet Raggs. .. bit busy at work...



But Dodge. .. the agreement is part of the channel tunnel deal when it was built and can't be ended on a whim and nothing to do with being in or out of eu. .. plus no ferry or train would let any of them get anywhere near getting on board and certainly wouldn't travel with any on board.


We have an established border force over there and it will not stop if we leave eu.

[Tommy Monk]

We don't have to make any trade agreements but they will be bending over backwards to get us to make one because we buy a whole lot more off them than they buy off us!!!


They want us to buy their stuff and it is a buyers market!!!

[Guest]

You are so wrong again Tommy, as all previous agreements made whilst both were members of the EU will cease to have any validity.
Plus the fact now nothing in France will now then be able to stop them boarding countless lorries

[Tommy Monk]

No you are just trying more scare tactics from project fear!

[stardesk]

France will most certainly turn a blind eye to thousands of migrants trying to get to the Uk. Why? Beacuse they don't want them either. They have enough already and don't want any more.

Damned good job if we leave the EU, we can shut our borders, we can monitor those coming through customs, we can send 'em back where they came from. If we're an independant country we can do what we like. As for trade, many countries will still buy off the UK. They're not going to say 'no more, thanks,' if we leave.

As far as I can see there are more good points to leaving than there are for staying.

You folks know I don't swear in these forums but just for once I'm going to: I'm pissed off with going into shops and garages that are owned/run by foreigners. At one time we'd laugh and joke in the corner shop, now it's owned by a foreign bloke. Grrrr...help...beam me up Scotty!

[Tommy Monk]

France already turns a blind eye to it... That's why we have to have our UK border force over there to try to stop it happening already!!!

[stardesk]

Hi Tommy. Over the years France has had an influx of migrants from places like Algeria and Morocco and other N. African countries. On the one hand I suppose we should feel sorry for them but, as said, we haven't got room for all the new influx from the Middle East. They will be a drain on our resources such as medical services, benefit payouts, housing, of which there appears to be a shortage. There are so many issues at stake her in the UK and with many more thousands of migrants coming here our social stucture will become unbalanced.

If we get thousands of them, we'll be seeing Moslem MPs pushing through bills for their benefit. We'll see mosques going up in every town or our empty churches used as mosques. Schools teaching Islamic texts. This was once a staunch Christian country but now? Oh dear God, what will become of our society?

I know damned well one or two of our members here will call me a racist, but no, I'm not. It's a question of seeing my country, my heritage and traditions, my way of life going into shreds. Yes we should be sorry for the migrants, leaving their country and tramping for thousands of miles in foreiegn lands, looking for a home and security, but had they have organised themselves back home, and formed armies, they could have faught IS and other militants.

Winge over for now, coffee pot calls.

[Guest]

Hi Tommy. Over the years France has had an influx of migrants from places like Algeria and Morocco and other N. African countries. On the one hand I suppose we should feel sorry for them but, as said, we haven't got room for all the new influx from the Middle East. They will be a drain on our resources such as medical services, benefit payouts, housing, of which there appears to be a shortage. There are so many issues at stake her in the UK and with many more thousands of migrants coming here our social stucture will become unbalanced.

If we get thousands of them, we'll be seeing Moslem MPs pushing through bills for their benefit. We'll see mosques going up in every town or our empty churches used as mosques. Schools teaching Islamic texts. This was once a staunch Christian country but now? Oh dear God, what will become of our society?

I know damned well one or two of our members here will call me a racist, but no, I'm not. It's a question of seeing my country, my heritage and traditions, my way of life going into shreds. Yes we should be sorry for the migrants, leaving their country and tramping for thousands of miles in foreiegn lands, looking for a home and security, but had they have organised themselves back home, and formed armies, they could have faught IS and other militants.

Winge over for now, coffee pot calls.

Point of Call Stardesk, it was never yours or anyone else's country. You own a minuscule amount of property within a land and nation. You are a citizen of that nation, which does not means its your country but a part of that nation. Your view Stardesk has been heard from generation to generation stating the exact same pessimism. We have seen time and again with generations claiming the same thing. No doubt in your youth that pessimism was when Rock and Roll first came out where people made absurd claims about how it would destroy society, the mini skirt etc, go back further and claims of women getting the vote would destroy society. You can go back generation  to generation with a set of people making the same unfounded claim. What all of them fail to grasp including yourself is this country has been forever changing. So you are not racist but a pessimist.

[Guest]

In a CATO policy report paper, Tyler Cowen offers the following brief history of cultural
pessimism:

"Cultural pessimism has been around as long as culture. Pessimistic attacks have been leveled for centuries, although the target has changed frequently. Many moralists and philosophers, including Plato, criticized theater and poetry for their corrupting influence. Books became a target after the onset of publishing. Eighteenth-century pessimists accused novels of preventing readers from thinking, preaching disobedience to parents (note the contradictory charges), undermining women’s sense of subservience, breaking down class distinctions, and making readers sick. Libraries, especially privately run circulating libraries, were another target. Edward Mangin remarked in 1808, ‘There is scarcely a street of the metropolis, or a village in the country, in which a circulating library may not be found: nor is there a corner of the
empire, where the English language is understood, that has not suffered from the effects of this
institution’.

In the 18th and 19th centuries the targets included epistolary romances, newspapers, opera, the music hall, photography, and instrumental virtuosi, such as Liszt and Paganini. The 20th century brought the scapegoats of radio, movies, modern art, professional sports, the automobile, television, rhythm and blues, rock ‘n’ roll, comic books, MTV music videos, and rap music. Each new medium or genre has been accused of corrupting youth and promoting excess sensuality, political subversion, and moral relativism."

[Tommy Monk]

It's OUR country dodge... others have THEIR OWN countries already!


It WAS OUR PEOPLE who built it up through blood sweat and tears and then built it up again after ww2...


We already have enough immigrants and don't want many more!!!


We want control on our borders back and control over our country through our directly elected politicians and parliament and for that we need to get out of eu.


If you dont like it or any other foreigners don't like it then that is just tough!!!

[Guest]

This country benefited from the money and resources of other nations it had subjugated

So yeah the people built it out of the proceeds, resources and money which was not theirs.


We do not have enough people to address the imbalance of the age population

Until that happens, or there is a massive baby boom, we will need plenty of immigrants

Anyway you are so dull to debate, my points are to Stardesk


So talk to the hand, because you do not own this country but are a part of it

[Tommy Monk]

Wrong!


We have been a strong mining farming and trading nation for millenia.


It is our country and we need to regain control of it through our parliament and democracy. And to do this we need to leave the eu in our independence day this June!!!

[Guest]

No not wrong, we have extorted and plundered the wealth from the Empire created by the British. The industrial Revolution would not have even occurred for the wealth plundered out of India.

So you need to read up on British history because its evident you know very little and go off what was again areas like farming and mining that had an injection of wealth from the Empire that help fund both mining and farming

[Tommy Monk]

Bullshit!

[Guest]

Bullshit!

Yeah we know you are full of it

Now jog the fuck on you little runt

[Tommy Monk]

Stop waffling bollocks!

[stardesk]

Didge my friend, you citicize people for saying nasty things to you but what have you done: Quote: 'Now jog the fuck on you little runt.'  Now that surely will bring you more abuse? Pack it up mate.

Back on track. Didge mentioned Britain building up out of the proceeds of what was gleaned from foreign countries. And so did France, Spain, Portugal. They all had interests in mining in Africa, N. & S. America, and the Far East. We weren't the only ones. Those countries also had a hand in the Slave Trade, not just Britain.

As Tommy said, we've been a mining and farming country for centuries. We led the world in engineering and other technologies. The world has benefited from our technology and science.

[Tommy Monk]

Muslims had massively more involvement in slavery as did Africans on other Africans!!!


And THEY are still at it in many places!!!

[Guest]

Didge my friend, you citicize people for saying nasty things to you but what have you done: Quote: 'Now jog the fuck on you little runt.'  Now that surely will bring you more abuse? Pack it up mate.
I could not give a fuck as the man is a blithering idiot, if you do not like it. Tough

Back on track. Didge mentioned Britain building up out of the proceeds of what was gleaned from foreign countries. And so did France, Spain, Portugal. They all had interests in mining in Africa, N. & S. America, and the Far East. We weren't the only ones. Those countries also had a hand in the Slave Trade, not just Britain.
Yes they did have a hand, which also means their position was gained from exploiting others. We are talking though in this instance about the UK

As Tommy said, we've been a mining and farming country for centuries. We led the world in engineering and other technologies. The world has benefited from our technology and science.

The world has benefited but again how did we get the money in the first place? Through exploitation, so it comes at a cost to countless many nations, not only in wealth, resources but in people alsio. So who benefited? The British people in the main and our conquered countries suffered at the expense so that you could be born into a society that advantaged you from the start.


You never addressed a single point I made on the fact the issue is with yourself in regards to cultural pessimism

[stardesk]

Morning Didge. It isn't a case of being a pessimist but more to do with factual realities. Apparently we have over a million unemployed, if we take in many thousands of migrants some employers will take them on at a lowwr wage than our workers. Only yesterday it was announced that 2,500 are being made redundant, where will they find work? I live in a farming county and I know for a fact that many farm workers and 'pickers' are foreign nationals. The work gangs use them as cheap labour.

There are many issues I could pick up on, such as the NHS, concerning hospitals, are very short of money and in debt, and yet foreigners and potential migrants are going to be looking to our Doctors and hospitals for care etc which they've not contributed to.

Housing is another problem. Plans are afoot to build many more estates, many of these will obviously be used to house migrants.

We do know that many foreigners are on state benefits, and a lot of their money, from wages and/or benefits, is sent to their relatives back home.

Be realistic Didge, how much more is going to be gleaned from our society by migrants and other foreigners? There is a bottom to the pot and it's getting ever nearer. One good reason we should get out of Europe is because it costs our country many millions of pounds per year. Enough is enough.

So again I say: Look at the realities and factual information concerning our society, it isn't being pessimistic.

Picking up on what Tommy said above, I read in the papers this morning that IS and other Moslem groups have enslaved thousand of women and young girls as slaves and sex-slaves. Why oh why doesn't Nato and many other countries get together and send in thousand of ground forces to eliminate these evil people.

[Guest]

Morning Didge. It isn't a case of being a pessimist but more to do with factual realities. Apparently we have over a million unemployed, if we take in many thousands of migrants some employers will take them on at a lowwr wage than our workers. Only yesterday it was announced that 2,500 are being made redundant, where will they find work? I live in a farming county and I know for a fact that many farm workers and 'pickers' are foreign nationals. The work gangs use them as cheap labour.

There are many issues I could pick up on, such as the NHS, concerning hospitals, are very short of money and in debt, and yet foreigners and potential migrants are going to be looking to our Doctors and hospitals for care etc which they've not contributed to.

Housing is another problem. Plans are afoot to build many more estates, many of these will obviously be used to house migrants.

We do know that many foreigners are on state benefits, and a lot of their money, from wages and/or benefits, is sent to their relatives back home.

Be realistic Didge, how much more is going to be gleaned from our society by migrants and other foreigners? There is a bottom to the pot and it's getting ever nearer. One good reason we should get out of Europe is because it costs our country many millions of pounds per year. Enough is enough.

So again I say: Look at the realities and factual information concerning our society, it isn't being pessimistic.

Morning Stardesk

What facts?

All you are offering me is something that can be rectified

Infrastructure

That does not mean we should deny anyone but resolve the infrastructure issue then

Again none of the above again addressed the main point I said to you on the age gap in this country

Again by 2050 a quarter of the nation will be over 65, which will need far more younger people to address the balance for the future and have enough people to care for them all

So your view on infrastructure is a very poor excuse Stardesk

[Tommy Monk]

Didge would have us believe that we had nothing and everyone else had everything before we went in and stole it all from them...


What a twat!

[Guest]

Lol poor tommy

No you were born into a privileged system, none of which you made or created and this was based off wealth we exploited and off a few innovative individuals, who were not selfish unlike you and shared their wisdom. You only learn what others have taught.

[stardesk]

I dunno about a 'poor excuse,' the fact is the unemployed rate is very high and surely our own people should be offered any work available. This would help the infrastucture. This is just one example of why many of us think the way we do and hopefully, leaving the EU will stop migrants taking our jobs.

In a town near us, which was also featured recently on our TV regional news, every where you go all you hear is foreign languages, which are now outnumbering our local people. Again taking jobs and houses, taking up Doctors and Hospital time, money, resources.

Where and when will this insanity stop Didge? Or do you want to see us outnumbered and eventually having to put up with them getting into parliament and pushing through bills for their benefit. There are so many issues involved and if it is allowed to continue out-of-hand then we will eventually be a minority in our own country. Is that what you want to see, Didge?

[Guest]

I dunno about a 'poor excuse,' the fact is the unemployed rate is very high and surely our own people should be offered any work available. This would help the infrastucture. This is just one example of why many of us think the way we do and hopefully, leaving the EU will stop migrants taking our jobs.

In a town near us, which was also featured recently on our TV regional news, every where you go all you hear is foreign languages, which are now outnumbering our local people. Again taking jobs and houses, taking up Doctors and Hospital time, money, resources.

Where and when will this insanity stop Didge? Or do you want to see us outnumbered and eventually having to put up with them getting into parliament and pushing through bills for their benefit. There are so many issues involved and if it is allowed to continue out-of-hand then we will eventually be a minority in our own country. Is that what you want to see, Didge?

No the unemployed rate is now very low and the lowest for some years

That again is poor

What insanity?
All I am seeing Stardesk is people having a very selfish view not to share this world when it comes to nations

I do find that very poor, if it was not for innovative people who did share their knowledge, humanity would have never advanced
Everything you have learnt is been so off the good graces of other sharing their knowledge
The question is why do you and some other insist on not being able to coexist with other humans.
Your position and privileged was only obtained from being born here and off nothing you yourself did

[stardesk]

Morning all.  Didge my friend, I've just had these figures from the Office of National Statistics:

Unemployed rate up to Dec 2015= 1,690,000

Now that's a lot of people. As I said earlier, migrants/refuges will be looking for work, that will just add to the numbers of unemployed and a drain on any benefits they may be entitled to.

I'm not being rude but please, open your eyes and see the realities of what is or will become of our country.

[Guest]

Morning all.  Didge my friend, I've just had these figures from the Office of National Statistics:

Unemployed rate up to Dec 2015= 1,690,000

Now that's a lot of people. As I said earlier, migrants/refuges will be looking for work, that will just add to the numbers of unemployed and a drain on any benefits they may be entitled to.

I'm not being rude but please, open your eyes and see the realities of what is or will become of our country.

United Kingdom Unemployment Rate[size=14]  1971-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar
[/size]

British jobless rate came in at 5.1 percent in the three months to December of 2015, the same as in the previous period, staying at the lowest in nearly ten years. Pay growth including bonus eased to 1.9 percent while excluding bonus it went up 2 percent, above expectations. Unemployment Rate in the United Kingdom averaged 7.17 percent from 1971 until 2015, reaching an all time high of 12 percent in February of 1984 and a record low of 3.40 percent in November of 1973. Unemployment Rate in the United Kingdom is reported by the Office for National Statistics.

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[th][/th][th]Actual[/th][th]Previous[/th][th]Highest[/th][th]Lowest[/th][th]Dates[/th][th]Unit[/th][th]Frequency[/th][th][/th]

	5.10	5.10	12.00	3.40	1971 - 2015	percent	Monthly

In the United Kingdom, the unemployment rate measures the number of people actively looking for a job as a percentage of the labour force. This page provides the latest reported value for - United Kingdom Unemployment Rate - plus previous releases, historical high and low, short-term forecast and long-term prediction, economic calendar, survey consensus and news. United Kingdom Unemployment Rate - actual data, historical chart and calendar of releases - was last updated on March of 2016. 

[th]Calendar[/th][th]GMT[/th][th]Reference[/th][th]Actual[/th][th]Previous[/th][th]Consensus[/th][th]Forecast [/th]

2015-12-16	09:30 AM	Oct	5.2%	5.3%	5.3%	5.3%
2016-01-20	09:30 AM	Nov	5.1%	5.2%	5.2%	5.2%
2016-02-17	09:30 AM	Dec	5.1%	5.1%	5%	5%
2016-03-16	09:30 AM	Jan		5.1%		5%
2016-04-20	08:30 AM	Feb				5%
2016-05-18	08:30 AM	Mar				5%

UK Unemployment Rate Steady at 5.1%

British jobless rate came in at 5.1 percent in the three months to December of 2015, the same as in the previous period, staying at the lowest in nearly ten years. Pay growth including bonus eased to 1.9 percent while excluding bonus it went up 2 percent, above expectations. 


There were 1.69 million unemployed people, 60,000 fewer than for July to September 2015 and 172,000 fewer than for a year earlier. There were 924,000 unemployed men, 116,000 fewer than for a year earlier and there were 766,000 unemployed women, 57,000 fewer than for a year earlier.


There were 31.42 million people in work, 205,000 more than for July to September 2015 and 521,000 more than for a year earlier. 22.98 million were working full-time, 387,000 more than for a year earlier. There were 8.43 million people working part-time, 134,000 more than for a year earlier.


The employment rate was 74.1%, the highest since comparable records began in 1971.


There were 8.88 million people aged from 16 to 64 who were economically inactive, 88,000 fewer than for July to September 2015 and 172,000 fewer than for a year earlier. The inactivity rate was 21.8%, lower than for a year earlier (22.3%) and only slightly higher than the record low of 21.7% last recorded for July to September 1990.


Average weekly earnings for employees in Great Britain increased by 1.9% including bonuses and by 2.0% excluding bonuses compared with a year earlier.



The number of people claiming for unemployment benefits (claimant count)  fell by 14.8 thousand to 760.20 Thousand in January of 2016, following an upwardly revised 15.2 thousand drop in December of 2015. It is the lowest level since 1975.

[Tommy Monk]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/12189594/Polish-migrants-guide-on-how-to-get-the-most-out-of-benefits.html

[stardesk]

Hi Tommy. As some of us have said, how much are these people going to drain out of benefits, which we've paid for all our working lives.

I don't begrudge anyone a better way of life but should it be at the cost of our benefits, whether employment, housing, NHS, social services and monetary benefits. No, they've not contributed one penny towards it all.

Expressing my inner feelings: Shut the bloody door and send 'em back where they came from.

[Tommy Monk]

We don't have to be in the eu to allow immigration of those who we do want and need!!!


But we have to be out of the EU to have control on borders to prevent the arrival of those we don't want or need!!!

[Tommy Monk]

But to me, the overriding issue is about sovereignty, and our national govt/parliament being in control of our laws/rules/regulations etc and the British people being in control of that through democracy!


Something a lot of people think we still have...


But the truth of things is that this is something we no longer have and can only get back by getting out of the EU...!!!

[Tommy Monk]

And the scaremongering continues..


Jeremy hunt tries saying the NHS will face budget cuts and there will be an exodus of doctors and nurses if we left the eu in the observer... and a warming from US general Petraeus who claims that leaving the eu would be a strategic dead end and calamitous for the whole world!!!





Next week it will be that the sky will fall in...

[Raggamuffin]

I'm just wondering what difference it would make if we came out of the EU. The country might save some money, but we won't get to see any of it because they'll probably waste it on something else. I don't think it will stop anyone coming into the country because I don't that's reliant on being a member of the EU.

[Tommy Monk]

We get back control over our country/laws/rules/regulations/borders.

[Raggamuffin]

We get back control over our country/laws/rules/regulations/borders.

Which is only of use if you actually agree with the new level of control or new rules Tommy. I don't think that coming out of the EU would stop illegal immigrants being allowed to stay. As I said in another thread, it's often our own courts which decide on that issue.

[Tommy Monk]

Taking back control over our fisheries and agriculture too.


But having control over our borders will prevent the legal mass immigration in the flood of people coming in through the free movement open door to 500 million eu nationals.


Our courts are currently having to abide by eu rules too...


But it's about so much more than just immigration or illegal immigrants .

[Tommy Monk]

This is an interesting watch. ..


Costs and Benefits of EU Committee

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0776nwd



In the first part the head of the 'remanians' lord rose and Jack straws son get demolished over the truth of their claimed figures on financial costs and benefits.

Then boris Johnson gets to tell some real truth about things...


Most amusing!

[Tommy Monk]

Did anyone have a look at the select committee hearing I linked above...?

[veya_victaous]

LOL I sort of hope UK leaves the EU so Australia is Guaranteed to dominate it within a couple of decades.
 
You wont rule yourself zero chance of that 
either join up with Europe Or re-join the American speaking nations,
But YOU will have to make some changes to do that like introducing a reasonable level of immigration at least 50% more than you currently have.

[nicko]

Veya for Prime MINISTER,he's got all the answers!

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