EU in or out forum Poll

[Guest]

EU in or out

[Andy]

My heart says leave, but my head says those telling us to leave (Boris, Gove,Farage,IDS, Rees-Mogg,Galloway) are all fruit loops and lack any decency and compassion.

[Ben Reilly]

Get out and welcome to high unemployment and rising prices on everything. Economic laws can be coaxed but not controverted -- sorry to say.

[Raggamuffin]

I don't know yet. I do look forward to more of Mr Farage's speeches though.

I think a few things need to be taken into account. Do the British people feel "European" enough to stay in the EU? Are they fed up with being told what to do by Europe? How would coming out affect the economy - employment, etc? Then there's the immigration issue. No matter how much people complain about racism, there are genuine concerns about overcrowding in this country.

I think it would be interesting to come out - just to see what happens really, but that's probably not a good enough reason.

[Andy]

The big problem is it is easier to remain than to rejoin if we find to our cost that leaving was a huge mistake.
The EU won't welcome us back unless it is entirely on their terms.

[Raggamuffin]

The big problem is it is easier to remain than to rejoin if we find to our cost that leaving was a huge mistake.
The EU won't welcome us back unless it is entirely on their terms.

Yes, it's a big risk - I agree. I think that will persuade a lot of people to vote to stay. It'll be interesting to see who has the bottle to vote to leave.

[Tommy Monk]

Do you want our parliament to make our laws/rules/regulations and for us to have control over our borders or do you want to be dictated to by Brussels and have open door to 500 million people...?


That is the fundamental choice!



Trade is the only argument for the EU and trade will continue after we left... but there is much more to the EU than just the simple trade arrangement that it is only supposed to be... it is a political construct that now controls 75-85% of our laws/rules/tegulations (much of which is against our national interest and at huge cost to the taxpayer and to businesses!) and it is seeking to evdntually get 100% control!!!


This is not what was voted for in 1975!!!


And we have been consistently lied to and tricked into giving more and more power away with every treaty signed since then!!!


We don't want or need the EU dictatorship to trade with the rest of the EU nations!


The EU sells us much more than we sell to them... so they will not stop wanting to sell us stuff if we leave!!!



The only way to get back control over our country, laws and borders is to leave the eu political dictatorship!!!

[Andy]

You forget to mention that immigration and repatriation of non UK citizens works both ways. Kick out the Eastern Europeans and they WILL reciprocate. 2 million Brits presently enjoy working in Europe hassle free. That would stop overnight, and everyone would have to apply for a work permit and residents permit as would non Brits here.
I am unconvinced that remaining in is great at present - but those who promote leaving are doing so with blinkered vision- it will create as many problems as it it is likely to resolve.

[Tommy Monk]

Bollocks!!!


There are hardly any brits in eastern Europe for a start!!!


And the vast majority of brits in the rest of Europe are wealthy retirees who contribute massively to the local economies and create jobs and wealth where they are!!!


And I'm sure they will be most welcome to carry on doing so!!!


Or they will be most welcome in plenty of other countries to spend their money!!!



Your argument is just pure waffle and fear mongering!!!

[Victorismyhero]

lefty "fear based arguements"? again?????????



If the lefties love europe so much they will be quite welcome to bugger off over there and live as good compliant europeans...they can indulge themselves in NEVER again having to think about politics.....because they wont be allowed to...

[Eilzel]

The big problem is it is easier to remain than to rejoin if we find to our cost that leaving was a huge mistake.
The EU won't welcome us back unless it is entirely on their terms.

That's a very good point. Something for the raging anti-EU bulls should consider.

[Tommy Monk]

It's a terrible point!!!


Once we leave the eu dictatorship, why would we want to join up and sign away control of our country and parliament again!?


And have to pay £55 million a day to be told what to do!?


If we were told the truth about the EU back in 1975, we would never have signed up in the first place!!!


And we certainly wouldn't be joining up now we know what it is!!!

[Eilzel]

It's a terrible point!!!


Once we leave the eu dictatorship, why would we want to join up and sign away control of our country and parliament again!?


And have to pay £55 million a day to be told what to do!?


If we were told the truth about the EU back in 1975, we would never have signed up in the first place!!!


And we certainly wouldn't be joining up now we know what it is!!!

Think hypothetically tommy.

If we leave the EU and it DOESN'T turn out so well, THEN we would have renogiate our reentry into the union. And the terms will be nothing like we can expect now.

[Tommy Monk]

Fear based waffle! !

We leave and get back control over our country, laws and borders... trade carries on as before...!


What will happen is that we all wonder why we were ever in the political dictatorship in the first place!!!


We will not want to join again!!!


And we would never joined up in the first place if we were told the truth about what it was!!!

[Andy]

It may be fear based - but better the devil you kniw than walking blindly into the unknown.
The out will lose.
Led by UKIP , losing is a habit.

[Eilzel]

Fear based waffle! !

We leave and get back control over our country, laws and borders... trade carries on as before...!


What will happen is that we all wonder why we were ever in the political dictatorship in the first place!!!


We will not want to join again!!!


And we would never joined up in the first place if we were told the truth about what it was!!!

Just blind rage with you. You can't even bring yourself to respond to a hypothetical. Just blind rage.

[Tommy Monk]

Unknown!!!???


We know very well what having control over our country and laws and borders is like!!!


We had this before we signed it all away to the EU!!!


Now is our chance to get our country back!!!

[Tommy Monk]

Les... you are talking shit!


Why would we ever want to rejoin the EU dictatorship!?


Trade will carry on the same and security is about our own military and being in nato...


Our security is deeply compromised by having open border to over half a billion foreign nationals and open to any number of terrorists who manage to blag a eu passport!

We are also unable to deport foreign ncriminals because of our eu membership!


I can't see anything good about us being in the eu!


Can you...!?

[Eilzel]

Still not addressing the hypothetical. Unless I lost it under all the exclamation points?!?!?!

I just remembered why I don't bother with you much these days.

[Tommy Monk]

Why would we ever want to rejoin the EU dictatorship!?


Trade will carry on the same and security is about our own military and being in nato... 


Our security is deeply compromised by having open border to over half a billion foreign nationals and open to any number of terrorists who manage to blag a eu passport!

We are also unable to deport foreign ncriminals because of our eu membership!


I can't see anything good about us being in the eu!


Can you...!?

[Victorismyhero]

funny how a hypothetical fear based argument is allowable when the lefties are running scared and it suits them

"oh lets all give in to fear and snuggle up to the dictators in europe"

but when people pose genuine reasns for fear based on something the left DONT like...like immigration...it becomes a different story

THEN its you are all pussies
your argument is invalid cos its fear based


well lads the boot is on the other foot...its YOU thats running scared....

[Victorismyhero]

heres two more points

the recent floods were mde FAR worse than they need have been due to EU rulings and policy

and

I just found out

the welsh govt is trying to encourage farmers to plant trees...a much needed and laudable move...

the EU is opposing this by having policies that DEMAND land clerence and remove payments from under the CAP schemes for any farmer that plants trees...

[Tommy Monk]

Two good posts there Elmer!

[Tommy Monk]

Open door to East Europeans and this is what is happening...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-35612409

[Eilzel]

funny how a hypothetical fear based argument is allowable when the lefties are running scared and it suits them

"oh lets all give in to fear and snuggle up to the dictators in europe"

but when people pose genuine reasns for fear based on something the left DONT like...like immigration...it becomes a different story

THEN its you are all pussies
your argument is invalid cos its fear based


well lads the boot is on the other foot...its YOU thats running scared....

Rather different.

Fear of immigration leads to innocents suffering on the grounds that 'possibly' one or two bad eggs get through the net.

Saying what could happen if we leave the EU is not fear mongering. You think there would be NO reprecussions of leaving the EU? Short term AND long term? We can just walk out and nothing will happen other than our golden ascension to the heights of the Pax Britannica?

That is unrealistic. This isn't the 1920s. The world has changed and countries are better off together (see the arguments made repeatedly during the Scottish in or out debate). Plus, there would be economic instability immediately upon leaving the EU. It is ludicrous not to think there would be.

[Tommy Monk]

We can trade with Europe, we can cooperate with Europe... WITHOUT BEING RUN BY EU!



We don't want of need our country/borders/laws/rules/regulations etc to be controlled by Brussels just to do a bit of trade with European countries!


We can trade with them and run our own country and make our own laws and rules through our own national parliament.

[Victorismyhero]

AND...we will have 55 million a DAY to "offset" any possible losses....

[Victorismyhero]

And Tommy has a good point..THERE IS NO reason why we shouldnt trade with, (and have a trading union with) the EU....but that is where it should stop....

[Tommy Monk]

They sell us much more than we sell them... so trade will continue just the same.


They will not hike up their prices with tariffs if it means we buy less from them!


The suggestion that trade will be affected is pure rubbish!


And if we can carry on trading then what is the point of being in the eu at all!?


Plenty of other countries trade with eu without being run by eu!


It's all a sham!

[eddie]

Can I just say that perhaps it's a generational thing too?
Those of us that remember what it was like to NOT be in the EU and remember how we were lied to about it, are possibly realising that we are better off out of it.

It seems to be people in their early thirties and younger, who wish to stay in.

[Raggamuffin]

Also, those who are older might not be so worried about jobs and that kind of thing. They might want to retire to Spain though ...

[eddie]

Well yes rags, there's always that lol

[Tommy Monk]

Swayed by fear mongering eddie... and probably huge amounts of pro eu propaganda through school etc...

[Major]

The leftiz/pc brigade/anti Brritish trash are doing more damage to us than Hitler did.

[Syl]

Voted not sure.
In the next few weeks I will try and make head or tail of the in's and out's....then try and decide who is lying and who is not.

[eddie]

Voted not sure.
In the next few weeks I will try and make head or tail of the in's and out's

....then try and decide who is lying and who is not.

Good luck with that Syl

[Victorismyhero]

and here's another reason....

since one particular member of this disreputable parcel of rogues decided to act unilaterally

Up to 5,000 Europeans have returned to the continent after being trained at terrorist camps, the head of Europol has reportedly said.

Rob Wainwright claimed Europe is facing its biggest terror threat in more than 10 years and has warned of large-scale attacks by IS and other groups.

The head of the EU law enforcement agency said: "The growing number of foreign fighters presents the EU countries with completely new challenges."

At least 700 people from the UK have travelled to support or fight for jihadist groups in Syria and Iraq, according to police, and about half have since returned.

Mr Wainwright's comments to Germany's Neue Osnabrücker Zeitung newspaper come after November's Paris attacks in which 130 people were killed.


from http://news.sky.com/story/1645171/warning-of-up-to-5000-jihadists-in-europe

cheers mrs merkel....

[Tommy Monk]

Voted not sure.
In the next few weeks I will try and make head or tail of the in's and out's....then try and decide who is lying and who is not.

What is it you want to know or are unsure about Syl...?

[nicko]

By what right do these unelected people make laws that we are supposed to follow? Did you vote for them? I DID NOT.I voted for TRADE with the EU, and that's all. Who are they to say who we can and cannot allow into our country? By the same token who are they to say we can't kick out who we want to? Lets make our OWN laws as we used to, and get out of this mess.

[Guest]

By what right do these unelected people make laws that we are supposed to follow?    Did you vote for them? I DID NOT.I voted for TRADE with the EU, and that's all. Who are they to say who we can and cannot allow into our country? By the same token who are they to say we can't kick out who we want to? Lets make our OWN laws as we used to, and get out of this mess.

I think that's a lot of peoples reason to want to exit the EU Nicko, we are sick and tired of our decisions in the courts being overruled.  I voted unsure because I still don't fully understand the economic implications  

[Major]

Rock on nicko.

Do you believe we are going down the pan by the PLANNED/MANIPULATING hand of successive misgovernments?

[Syl]

Voted not sure.
In the next few weeks I will try and make head or tail of the in's and out's

....then try and decide who is lying and who is not.

Good luck with that Syl

Thanks...I have the migraine tablets on stand by.

[Syl]

Voted not sure.
In the next few weeks I will try and make head or tail of the in's and out's....then try and decide who is lying and who is not.

What is it you want to know or are unsure about Syl...?

Everything, including how it'll affect me and mine.
People in work, people out of work, home owners, renters, the NHS, schools, investments, pensions, prices, inflation, savings, travelling abroad, immigration, emigration....that's off the top of my head.

[Tommy Monk]

Economic implications are that trade continues with eu... they continue selling us BMWs and Mercedes and wine and cheese etc... and we stop paying £55 million a day to the EU for them to tell us what to do!


We also retake our seat at the world trade organisation as well as being free to open up trade with other countries in the world under conditions we want that are for our national good!


Also we can limit who and how many people can come here and thereby reduce pressure and costs on our public services!

[Guest]

Economic implications are that trade continues with eu... they continue selling us BMWs and Mercedes and wine and cheese etc... and we stop paying  £55 million a day to the EU for them to tell us what to do!


We also retake our seat at the world trade organisation as well as being free to open up trade with other countries in the world under conditions we want that are for our national good!


Also we can limit who and how many people can come here and thereby reduce pressure and costs on our public services!

Well, when you put it like that Tommy No down sides then?

[Syl]

Yes...sounds good, till someone comes up with the counter arguments.

I think if you are not going off a gut reaction it takes thought to decide.

My gut reaction is to leave btw.

[The Devil, You Know]

Get out and welcome to high unemployment and rising prices on everything. Economic laws can be coaxed but not controverted -- sorry to say.

the EU already has that in spades. The UK trades more with country's outside the EU than within. People seem to think trade with the eU would stop the minute we would leave. I am pretty sure BMW, VW and mercedes might not like that. the EU sells us more than we sell them.
Stellios of easy jet fame says flights will be more expensive, although that may only be flights to the EU where you pay extra taxes that you don't pay to non eu country's.
America didn't do to badly from breaking away did it?

[The Devil, You Know]

You forget to mention that immigration and repatriation of non UK citizens works both ways. Kick out the Eastern Europeans and they WILL reciprocate. 2 million Brits presently enjoy working in Europe hassle free. That would stop overnight, and everyone would have to apply for a work permit and residents permit as would non Brits here.
I am unconvinced that remaining in is great at present - but those who promote leaving are doing so with blinkered vision- it will create as many problems as it it is likely to resolve.

those who live abroad would be able to apply for residence in the country's they live in, just as EU citizens would be allowed to do so in the UK.

#Brexit will not see a mass exodus of those EU citizens who live in the UK by suddenly being deported, nor will it see expats being kicked out of europe in their millions.

#Brexit is not about immigration, trade, border control or any of the side issues some people seem fixated on, it is about the UK regaining sovereignty and by doing that all the rest will fall into line and be the responsibility of the government of the day. Those government can then be held entirely responsible for any success's or failures and wont be able to blame outside laws or EU directives.

the UK may no longer be an empire, but it is certainly better than being a glorified council. I want the UK to be in charge of its own destiny, not have an unelected bunch of eurocrats dictating from on high what can and cannot be done.

[The Devil, You Know]

The big problem is it is easier to remain than to rejoin if we find to our cost that leaving was a huge mistake.
The EU won't welcome us back unless it is entirely on their terms.

That's a very good point. Something for the raging anti-EU bulls should consider.

something an independent scotland should also take note of.

[The Devil, You Know]

It may be fear based - but better the devil you kniw than walking blindly into the unknown.
The out will lose.
Led by UKIP , losing is a habit.

UKIP are not leading the out campaign. In fact farage and galloway may well be hindering it.
this is not about personalities it is about whether the UK should govern itself or not.

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