Is Obama determined to start WW3?

First topic message reminder :

44 minutes ago

US President Barack Obama has accused Russia of flouting a deal on Ukraine.

Mr Obama told a news conference in Japan that Moscow had failed to halt actions by militants in the region and warned that the US could impose further sanctions against Russia.

A contingent of US troops has begun landing in Poland for military exercises amid concerns among Nato's eastern members about Russian intentions.

Moscow has said it will respond to any attack on its interests in Ukraine.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-27139190

That follows his pledge to the Japanese to support them regarding some disputed islands if China attack them, which isn't going down at all well with China!

Tesstacious wrote:

Didge wrote:



Wow and what about the billions he could lose to the west Tess or how his inner circle will lose billions by sanctions Comrade?
Sorry that was hilarious, he is showing how desperate he is by doing so, because if America and other nations stand to gain from his stupidity, Russia will again lose out finnacially

That akward moment when USA imposes sanctions on Russian banks, but it's Bank of America that crashes -5% after this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmUDHWaIMAAuVs4.jpg:large

It is going to affect many, but again more so Russia and more so his inner circle, which is the point you miss Comrade

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

 ::smthg:: 

its a show of force you fool

a commitment without committing to any action

thats exactly what happened during libya

marines were on station ready to deploy, its a threat nothing more

Hilarious, so defending air space is not committing to action, oh my, what a dummy




This is the comical reply to the new sanctions, all hot air just like smelly

What makes me laugh is Russia cannot hurt American resources.





We will, of course, respond," Russian deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov told the Interfax news agency. "We are certain that this response will have a painful effect on Washington."
He provided no further details but stressed that Russia had a "broad range" of options. Ryabkov said Washington's measures would only escalate tensions around the culturally splintered ex-Soviet state.
"We are disgusted with the statement issued by the White House press secretary," said Ryabkov.
"Every word used by the White House press secretary in the statement confirms that the United States has completely lost touch with reality and is leading things toward an escalation of the crisis."

of course its not committing to action you fool

its a defensive posture

imposing a no fly zone over the east of Ukraine would be committing to action

where did you say the panes had gone??

not ukraine i take it

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

what exactly is Russia going to lose??

Its rich magnates their wealth, his inner circle, something you cannot comprehend.

Hence they are hitting and using the right strategy, something you still have no concept of

waffle

you don't seem to be understanding what is happening

you're using vague words like "right strategy" "inner circle" "hitting"

all that shows is that you're reading too much huffing and puffing

so long as Russia can export its resources and products it wont affect the inner circle since they are probably all corrupt and skimming off the top anyway

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:



Its rich magnates their wealth, his inner circle, something you cannot comprehend.

Hence they are hitting and using the right strategy, something you still have no concept of

waffle

you don't seem to be understanding what is happening

you're using vague words like "right strategy" "inner circle" "hitting"

all that shows is that you're reading too much huffing and puffing

so long as Russia can export its resources and products it wont affect the inner circle since they are probably all corrupt and skimming off the top anyway

PMSL again, that really shows you have not a scooby doo and no comprehension of economics smelly, I suggest you read up before engaging any further.

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:



Hilarious, so defending air space is not committing to action, oh my, what a dummy




This is the comical reply to the new sanctions, all hot air just like smelly

What makes me laugh is Russia cannot hurt American resources.





We will, of course, respond," Russian deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov told the Interfax news agency. "We are certain that this response will have a painful effect on Washington."
He provided no further details but stressed that Russia had a "broad range" of options. Ryabkov said Washington's measures would only escalate tensions around the culturally splintered ex-Soviet state.
"We are disgusted with the statement issued by the White House press secretary," said Ryabkov.
"Every word used by the White House press secretary in the statement confirms that the United States has completely lost touch with reality and is leading things toward an escalation of the crisis."

of course its not committing to action you fool

its a defensive posture

imposing a no fly zone over the east of Ukraine would be committing to action

where did you say the panes had gone??

not ukraine i take it

PMSL again, so they are just there for show then, I mean many Nato nations have sent fighters to the region, for one purpose, to be used if called upon.
Listen comrade, I know you love Putin, but this is Britain where we do not backed down from tyrants when they threat the stability of the world.

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

of course its not committing to action you fool

its a defensive posture

imposing a no fly zone over the east of Ukraine would be committing to action

where did you say the panes had gone??

not ukraine i take it

PMSL again, so they are just there for show then, I mean many Nato nations have sent fighters to the region, for one purpose, to be used if called upon.
Listen comrade, I know you love Putin, but this is Britain where we do not backed down from tyrants when they threat the stability of the world.

"I know you love Putin, but this is Britain where we do not backed down from tyrants when they threat the stability of the world"

you mean like the illegal invasion of iraq??

because that sure as shit stabilized the world didn't it??

you mean like not doing anything about NK and its nukes??

and yes that is exactly right

they are there for show.

its called "force projection" and it a basic strategy used all the time

the ability to threaten force without committing is a very attractive prospect for politicians

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:



PMSL again, so they are just there for show then, I mean many Nato nations have sent fighters to the region, for one purpose, to be used if called upon.
Listen comrade, I know you love Putin, but this is Britain where we do not backed down from tyrants when they threat the stability of the world.

"I know you love Putin, but this is Britain where we do not backed down from tyrants when they threat the stability of the world"

you mean like the illegal invasion of iraq??

because that sure as shit stabilized the world didn't it??

you mean like not doing anything about NK and its nukes??

and yes that is exactly right

they are there for show.

its called "force projection" and it a basic strategy used all the time

the ability to threaten force without committing is a very attractive prospect for politicians
 

That threaten the stability of the world, dear me, you cannot even put anything into comprehension, the Iraq invasion did no such thing.


North Korea has had Nukes for decades and has Chinese backing, something again you fail to comprehend and what threat from North Korea, they have felt the full affect of sanctions funny enough and always back down, to then get all mouthy again to only back down again. A war of words, but they again know they are reliant on help. You though fail to how intelligent it is to hit Russia where it matters, its rich elite




Western countries say the targeted sanctions are already having an effect on Russia by scaring investors into pulling out capital. The central bank has been forced to hike interest rates to prop up the ruble, and Russian firms are finding it more difficult and costly to raise funds.

NK have felt the full effect of sanctions??

is that why they are cracking on as if nothing is happening??

tell me didge if the squeezing of inner circle is going to resulting ousting putin and making a deal with the west, why hasn't it worked in NK??

why hasn't NK made a deal with the west??

secondly the world is not Ukraine.

there is more unrest and volatility in syria and yet the world remains stable

smelly_bandit wrote:NK have felt the full effect of sanctions??

is that why they are cracking on as if nothing is happening??

tell me didge if the squeezing of inner circle is going to resulting ousting putin and making a deal with the west, why hasn't it worked in NK??

why hasn't NK made a deal with the west??

secondly the world is not Ukraine.

there is more unrest and volatility in syria and yet the world remains stable

   

Yes they have cracked many times, I suggest once again you read some history, to where many of its nation were starving and they made concessions.
Seriously it is embarrassing to read your replies, when you know so little and again this is what North Korea always does, flex its muscles and then always back down.
NK has made many deals with the west.



https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron


The world is not Ukraine, but what might happen there could involve the world, I suggest again you look at history, I mean why did we go to war in WW2 smelly?

Check this out:

Moscow prepares to occupy Kiev before its bloody holiday celebrating enslavement of half Europe.

KC sources in the command of Caucasus Emirate Mujahideen reported intelligence data on possible Kremlin's plans to occupy Kiev. If these data is correct, the whole fuss, arranged by Moscow around southeastern Ukraine is a red herring.

Moscow is preparing to blow its main strike on Kiev, which is to be seized by Putin's soldiery before a bloody Russian holiday of May 9, 2014. The general military scenario is as follows:

Airborne landings in Kiev. The aims are to seize the city center, capture the government quarter and bridges across the Dnieper, arrest the members of the legal Ukrainian government (primarily, Oleksandr Turchynov, Arseniy Yatsenyuk and Andriy Parubiy). Simultaneously, a tank breakthrough is conducted. The most probable place of movement of armored units is the town of Sudzha in Russia's Kursk region.

Delivery of the ousted criminal Yanukovych to Kiev and announcement of the restoration of "legitimate Ukrainian authorities".

The final plan to occupy Kiev was approved in early April 2014. On April 24, a special meeting of Russian leadership confirmed the date of the offensive....


http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2014/04/28/19159.shtml

Sigh......

Didge wrote:Sigh......

Why are you so rude? I'm only giving the thread input for discussion. You don't have to be so arrogant all the time.

Tesstacious wrote:Check this out:

Moscow prepares to occupy Kiev before its bloody holiday celebrating enslavement of half Europe.

KC sources in the command of Caucasus Emirate Mujahideen reported intelligence data on possible Kremlin's plans to occupy Kiev.  If these data is correct, the whole fuss, arranged by Moscow around southeastern Ukraine is a red herring.

Moscow is preparing to blow its main strike on Kiev, which is to be seized by Putin's soldiery before a bloody Russian holiday of May 9, 2014.  The general military scenario is as follows:

Airborne landings in Kiev. The aims are to seize the city center, capture the government quarter and bridges across the Dnieper, arrest the members of the legal Ukrainian government (primarily, Oleksandr Turchynov, Arseniy Yatsenyuk and Andriy Parubiy).  Simultaneously, a tank breakthrough is conducted. The most probable place of movement of armored units is the town of Sudzha in Russia's Kursk region.

Delivery of the ousted criminal Yanukovych to Kiev and announcement of the restoration of "legitimate Ukrainian authorities".

The final plan to occupy Kiev was approved in early April 2014. On April 24, a special meeting of Russian leadership confirmed the date of the offensive....


http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2014/04/28/19159.shtml

So Putin is reclaiming Ukraine ......................

Sounds plausible to me.

gerber wrote:

Tesstacious wrote:Check this out:

Moscow prepares to occupy Kiev before its bloody holiday celebrating enslavement of half Europe.

KC sources in the command of Caucasus Emirate Mujahideen reported intelligence data on possible Kremlin's plans to occupy Kiev.  If these data is correct, the whole fuss, arranged by Moscow around southeastern Ukraine is a red herring.

Moscow is preparing to blow its main strike on Kiev, which is to be seized by Putin's soldiery before a bloody Russian holiday of May 9, 2014.  The general military scenario is as follows:

Airborne landings in Kiev. The aims are to seize the city center, capture the government quarter and bridges across the Dnieper, arrest the members of the legal Ukrainian government (primarily, Oleksandr Turchynov, Arseniy Yatsenyuk and Andriy Parubiy).  Simultaneously, a tank breakthrough is conducted. The most probable place of movement of armored units is the town of Sudzha in Russia's Kursk region.

Delivery of the ousted criminal Yanukovych to Kiev and announcement of the restoration of "legitimate Ukrainian authorities".

The final plan to occupy Kiev was approved in early April 2014. On April 24, a special meeting of Russian leadership confirmed the date of the offensive....


http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2014/04/28/19159.shtml

So Putin is reclaiming Ukraine ......................

Sounds plausible to me.

Reclaiming Gerber?

Again why did Germany invade Poland, was it to (claim) reclaiming German lands?

Didge wrote:

gerber wrote:

So Putin is reclaiming Ukraine ......................

Sounds plausible to me.

Reclaiming Gerber?

Again why did Germany invade Poland, was it to (claim) reclaiming German lands?

slight difference

there has been no invasion by Russian forces

try again

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


Reclaiming Gerber?

Again why did Germany invade Poland, was it to (claim) reclaiming German lands?

slight difference

there has been no invasion by Russian forces

try again

Really, so Russian forces did not enter Crimea?


Try again

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

slight difference

there has been no invasion by Russian forces

try again

Really, so Russian forces did not enter Crimea?


Try again

correct

there has been no invasion into either Crimea or Ukraine by Russian troops

try again

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


Really, so Russian forces did not enter Crimea?


Try again

correct

there has been no invasion into either Crimea or Ukraine by Russian troops  

try again

No they invaded and occupied the Crimea

Try again

Didge wrote:

gerber wrote:

So Putin is reclaiming Ukraine ......................

Sounds plausible to me.

Reclaiming Gerber?

Again why did Germany invade Poland, was it to (claim) reclaiming German lands?

Reclaiming sounds about right. Look at this map of Europe in 1900. Russia's borders have been shrinking eastwards for decades. NATO countries have been encroaching further and further east so that if they rule over Ukraine they are literally taking part of Russian lands.

http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/1900/index.html

Tesstacious wrote:

Didge wrote:


Reclaiming Gerber?

Again why did Germany invade Poland, was it to (claim) reclaiming German lands?

Reclaiming sounds about right.  Look at this map of Europe in 1900.  Russia's borders have been shrinking eastwards for decades.  NATO countries have been encroaching further and further east so that if they rule over Ukraine they are literally taking part of Russian lands.

http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/1900/index.html

1900?
Even Lady Cass showed you your views were completely wrong on this and now using that logic you thus surely conclude Germany was thus right to invade Poland, based on its borders in 1900 Comrade?
The fact that in Crimea along Stalin changed the demographics of the are by the forced removal of thousands of people, shows again people really know little of history

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

correct

there has been no invasion into either Crimea or Ukraine by Russian troops  

try again

No they invaded and occupied the Crimea

Try again

 ::smthg:: ::smthg:: 

OK

best tell all the media outlets they have missed a mass invasion by Russia

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


No they invaded and occupied the Crimea

Try again

 ::smthg:: ::smthg:: 

OK

best tell all the media outlets they have missed a mass invasion by Russia

Hilarious as they did:


Soldiers infiltrated the radio-technical company at the Maganome Cape near Feodosiya


the 55th Anti-Air Defense in Yevpatoriya had been seized


Soldiers without identification, blocked the 36th Ukrainian Coastal Defense unit (Ukrainian Navy) in Perevalne (between Simferopol and Alushta) and demanded that the besieged Ukrainian Marines surrender

and 400 Russian special operations troops arrived by the Russian Black Sea Fleet BDK "Azov"

there also was an attempt by another 30 soldiers of Russia to take over the 39th Training unit of Ukrainian Navy (Sevastopol)

The State Border Guard Service of Ukraine acknowledged seizure of its headquarters of the Azov-Black Sea regional administration and the Simferopol border detachment by the armed soldiers.


I can go on, so I suggest you try again

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

 ::smthg:: ::smthg:: 

OK

best tell all the media outlets they have missed a mass invasion by Russia

Hilarious as they did:


Soldiers infiltrated the radio-technical company at the Maganome Cape near Feodosiya


the 55th Anti-Air Defense in Yevpatoriya had been seized


Soldiers without identification, blocked the 36th Ukrainian Coastal Defense unit (Ukrainian Navy) in Perevalne (between Simferopol and Alushta) and demanded that the besieged Ukrainian Marines surrender

and 400 Russian special operations troops arrived by the Russian Black Sea Fleet BDK "Azov"

there also was an attempt by another 30 soldiers of Russia to take over the 39th Training unit of Ukrainian Navy (Sevastopol)

The State Border Guard Service of Ukraine acknowledged seizure of its headquarters of the Azov-Black Sea regional administration and the Simferopol border detachment by the armed soldiers.


I can go on, so I suggest you try again

Soldiers without identification

so mercenaries then

not Russian troops at all

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


Hilarious as they did:


Soldiers infiltrated the radio-technical company at the Maganome Cape near Feodosiya


the 55th Anti-Air Defense in Yevpatoriya had been seized


Soldiers without identification, blocked the 36th Ukrainian Coastal Defense unit (Ukrainian Navy) in Perevalne (between Simferopol and Alushta) and demanded that the besieged Ukrainian Marines surrender

and 400 Russian special operations troops arrived by the Russian Black Sea Fleet BDK "Azov"

there also was an attempt by another 30 soldiers of Russia to take over the 39th Training unit of Ukrainian Navy (Sevastopol)

The State Border Guard Service of Ukraine acknowledged seizure of its headquarters of the Azov-Black Sea regional administration and the Simferopol border detachment by the armed soldiers.


I can go on, so I suggest you try again

Soldiers without identification



so mercenaries then

not Russian troops at all

 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 


400 Russian special operations troops arrived by the Russian Black Sea Fleet BDK "Azov



Dear me, gets funnier by the minute, so I guess smelly now classes the SAS and SBS as mercenaries when in clandestine operations


Egg on face alert time

Didge wrote:

Tesstacious wrote:
Reclaiming sounds about right.  Look at this map of Europe in 1900.  Russia's borders have been shrinking eastwards for decades.  NATO countries have been encroaching further and further east so that if they rule over Ukraine they are literally taking part of Russian lands.

http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/1900/index.html

1900?
Even Lady Cass showed you your views were completely wrong on this and now using that logic you thus surely conclude Germany was thus right to invade Poland, based on its borders in 1900 Comrade?
The fact that in Crimea along Stalin changed the demographics of the are by the forced removal of thousands of people, shows again people really know little of history

History of Ukraine:

...In 1653 the greater portion of the population rebelled against dominantly Polish Catholic rule and in January 1654 an assembly of the people (rada) voted at Pereyaslav to turn to Moscow, effectively joining the southeastern portion of the Polish-Lithuanian empire east of the Dnieper River to Russia...

They remained part of Russia for centuries; in the 1920s they became the Ukranian Soviet Socialist Republic. In 1954 the republic expanded to the south with the transfer of the Crimea.

Ukraine became independent again when the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991. This dissolution started a period of transition to a market economy, in which Ukraine suffered an eight-year recession...

So, Didge, Ukraine's been part of Russia from 1654 to 1991...

Tesstacious wrote:

Didge wrote:


1900?
Even Lady Cass showed you your views were completely wrong on this and now using that logic you thus surely conclude Germany was thus right to invade Poland, based on its borders in 1900 Comrade?
The fact that in Crimea along Stalin changed the demographics of the are by the forced removal of thousands of people, shows again people really know little of history

History of Ukraine:

...In 1653 the greater portion of the population rebelled against dominantly Polish Catholic rule and in January 1654 an assembly of the people (rada) voted at Pereyaslav to turn to Moscow, effectively joining the southeastern portion of the Polish-Lithuanian empire east of the Dnieper River to Russia...

They remained part of Russia for centuries; in the 1920s they became the Ukranian Soviet Socialist Republic.   In 1954 the republic expanded to the south with the transfer of the Crimea.

Ukraine became independent again when the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991. This dissolution started a period of transition to a market economy, in which Ukraine suffered an eight-year recession...

So, Didge, Ukraine's been part of Russia from 1654 to 1991...

Hilarious, read your first sentence Tess, so they never fought for independence either Tess.

Again you really know little of history and again, with that logic back the view of invading Poland by Germany.

Russia, fearing separatism, imposed strict limits on attempts to elevate the Ukrainian language and culture, even banning its use and study. The Russophile policies of Russification and Panslavism led to an exodus of a number of Ukrainian intellectuals into Western Ukraine. However, many Ukrainians accepted their fate in the Russian Empire and some were to achieve a great success there. Many Russian writers, composers, painters and architects of the 19th century were of Ukrainian descent. Probably the most notable were Nikolai Gogol, one of the greatest writers in the history of Russian literature, and Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, one of the greatest composers in the history of Russian music, whose father came of Ukrainian Cossack stock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine


I really feel sorry for you every time you post Tess

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

Soldiers without identification



so mercenaries then

not Russian troops at all

 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 


400 Russian special operations troops arrived by the Russian Black Sea Fleet BDK "Azov



Dear me, gets funnier by the minute, so I guess smelly  now classes the SAS and SBS as mercenaries when in clandestine operations


Egg on face alert time

how can they be identified if they have no identification??

i think you're getting confused about the point of a uniform

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 


400 Russian special operations troops arrived by the Russian Black Sea Fleet BDK "Azov



Dear me, gets funnier by the minute, so I guess smelly  now classes the SAS and SBS as mercenaries when in clandestine operations


Egg on face alert time

how can they be identified if they have no identification??

i think you're getting confused about the point of a uniform

 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 


Guess my point went well above his pay grade again.

jAlso that was just some of the troops, others were identified:


By 3 March 2014, Russian troops captured the Ukrainian Border Guard base in Balaklava after repeated assaults


Try again

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

how can they be identified if they have no identification??

i think you're getting confused about the point of a uniform

 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 


Guess my point went well above his pay grade again.

jAlso that was  just some of the troops, others were identified:


By 3 March 2014, Russian troops captured the Ukrainian Border Guard base in Balaklava after repeated assaults


Try again

but but but but you said they had no identification

so how can they be identified as Russian troops

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 


Guess my point went well above his pay grade again.

jAlso that was  just some of the troops, others were identified:


By 3 March 2014, Russian troops captured the Ukrainian Border Guard base in Balaklava after repeated assaults


Try again

but but but but you said they had no identification

so how can they be identified as Russian troops

 ://?roflmao?/: 


From the Russian Naval bases there to then capture areas.


Fucking priceless, tell me smelly, what does capture or take by force mean?

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:


but but but but you said they had no identification

so how can they be identified as Russian troops

 ://?roflmao?/: 


From the Russian Naval bases there to then capture areas.


Fucking priceless, tell me smelly, what does capture or take by force mean?

but who was doing it didge

not the Russian military but rather Soldiers without identification is what you said

so im done going round in circles

to conclude there are armed militants loyal only to themselves operating under their own orders fighting in Ukraine

Russian troops remain in Russia and there has been no invasion force sent to Ukraine by Russia

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


 ://?roflmao?/: 


From the Russian Naval bases there to then capture areas.


Fucking priceless, tell me smelly, what does capture or take by force mean?

but who was doing it didge

not the Russian military but rather Soldiers without identification is what you said

so im done going round in circles

to conclude there are armed militants loyal only to themselves operating under their own orders fighting in Ukraine

Russian troops remain in Russia and there has been no invasion force sent to Ukraine by Russia

No Russian troops as well smelly, dear me, would you like more:


Russian sailors scuttled the decommissioned cruiser Ochakov at the entrance to Donuzlav Bay in western Crimea as a blockship, in an attempt to prevent Ukrainian navy ships from gaining access to the Black Sea

On 14 March, the Russian amphibious assault ship Yamal landed troops, trucks and at least one armoured personnel carrier at Kazachaya bay near Sevastopo

At Sevastopol, a Russian fleet's tug attacked the Ukrainian corvette Ternopil with grenades, inflicting some damage. At evening, 15–20 Russian special troops from the tug stormed the corvette and captured her using stun grenades and automatic fire

Dear me this is very embarrassing for poor smelly, again what does capture or take by force mean?

And there is more:


At Sevastopol, Russian warships surrounded the Ukrainian submarine Zaporizhzhia, and attacked her with grenades. The submarine was later seized by Russian personnel

22 March
The Ukrainian air base at Belbek was overrun and taken over by Russian special forces forces supported by six BTR-80 armoured vehicles. The commander of the base, Yuli Mamchur, was captured, and the rest of the Ukrainian personnel evicted.


Maybe smelly can tell me where militants get their hands on six BTR-80 armoured vehicles.?


DOH

I don't know didge who do Russian militants get their hands on an APC??

Just found this...................... Maybe be true, kosher maybe bull s**t..


Russia using Chechnya Troops to Occupy Eastern Ukraine – This is Checkmate

In Slowjansk, Eastern Ukraine, we have our own direct sources that confirm with photographs that Russian troops have invaded and occupy the city. We have direct confirmation that these men in green are from the Russian forces, but mostly from Chechnya. The Web Cameras that use to broadcast all the time in Slowjansk have been turned off now for almost 4 weeks.

This is a picture one of our direct contacts took in Slowjansk. This is not found somewhere else on the web and it is real – not propaganda. We have confirmation from our people there in the East these Russian troops are indeed occupying the region. They all have the same uniforms with no markings that appeared in Crimea. There is no way someone who is non-military would have had the money to create such uniforms in mass or provide military grade weapons.

Putin is now also going to control the whole Russian speaking Internet. The 1st victim is already vk.com – the Russian Facebook. The creator and CEO of vk.com was fired from his position. He himself says, they wanted him to give out all the personal dates of the activists of Maidan, he did not want to do it and had to go.
This is the real deal. This is not spin from one side or the other. We are looking at reality and the West does not want to formally address this issue for it would imply that ground troops are necessary that nobody wants to provide.

What is also taking place is pro-Ukrainians are being tortured and murdered now in various cities – this includes young teenage boys. Here are two people from Gorlivka who were tortured to death for raising the Ukrainian flag. One hour ago, a third victim was discovered dumped in the same location. This is having a chilling effect on Ukrainians in the East who do not wish to be apart of Russia and seek freedom.

http://i1.wp.com/armstrongeconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Victims-Killed-for-Flag.jpg

Not adding fuel to the fire just sharing what I have bee found

gerber wrote:Just found this......................  Maybe be true, kosher maybe bull s**t..


Russia using Chechnya Troops to Occupy Eastern Ukraine – This is Checkmate

In Slowjansk, Eastern Ukraine, we have our own direct sources that confirm with photographs that Russian troops have invaded and occupy the city. We have direct confirmation that these men in green are from the Russian forces, but mostly from Chechnya. The Web Cameras that use to broadcast all the time in Slowjansk have been turned off now for almost 4 weeks.

This is a picture one of our direct contacts took in Slowjansk. This is not found somewhere else on the web and it is real – not propaganda. We have confirmation from our people there in the East these Russian troops are indeed occupying the region. They all have the same uniforms with no markings that appeared in Crimea. There is no way someone who is non-military would have had the money to create such uniforms in mass or provide military grade weapons.

Putin is now also going to control the whole Russian speaking Internet. The 1st victim is already vk.com – the Russian Facebook. The creator and CEO of vk.com was fired from his position. He himself says, they wanted him to give out all the personal dates of the activists of Maidan, he did not want to do it and had to go.
This is the real deal. This is not spin from one side or the other. We are looking at reality and the West does not want to formally address this issue for it would imply that ground troops are necessary that nobody wants to provide.

What is also taking place is pro-Ukrainians are being tortured and murdered now in various cities – this includes young teenage boys. Here are two people from Gorlivka who were tortured to death for raising the Ukrainian flag. One hour ago, a third victim was discovered dumped in the same location. This is having a chilling effect on Ukrainians in the East who do not wish to be apart of Russia and seek freedom.

http://i1.wp.com/armstrongeconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Victims-Killed-for-Flag.jpg

Not adding fuel to the fire just sharing what I have bee found

News broadcast from Ukraine tonight showed a peaceful march of people that did not want to join Russia broken up by thugs beating them with batons.   They had been marching with police to protect them.  As soon as the thugs arrived, the police ran off.   The march had lots of women and children as well as the men and had caused no trouble at all. The pro-russian thugs who had been marching separately just descended and started beating anyone they could get their hands on.

Sassy wrote:

gerber wrote:Just found this......................  Maybe be true, kosher maybe bull s**t..


Russia using Chechnya Troops to Occupy Eastern Ukraine – This is Checkmate

In Slowjansk, Eastern Ukraine, we have our own direct sources that confirm with photographs that Russian troops have invaded and occupy the city. We have direct confirmation that these men in green are from the Russian forces, but mostly from Chechnya. The Web Cameras that use to broadcast all the time in Slowjansk have been turned off now for almost 4 weeks.

This is a picture one of our direct contacts took in Slowjansk. This is not found somewhere else on the web and it is real – not propaganda. We have confirmation from our people there in the East these Russian troops are indeed occupying the region. They all have the same uniforms with no markings that appeared in Crimea. There is no way someone who is non-military would have had the money to create such uniforms in mass or provide military grade weapons.

Putin is now also going to control the whole Russian speaking Internet. The 1st victim is already vk.com – the Russian Facebook. The creator and CEO of vk.com was fired from his position. He himself says, they wanted him to give out all the personal dates of the activists of Maidan, he did not want to do it and had to go.
This is the real deal. This is not spin from one side or the other. We are looking at reality and the West does not want to formally address this issue for it would imply that ground troops are necessary that nobody wants to provide.

What is also taking place is pro-Ukrainians are being tortured and murdered now in various cities – this includes young teenage boys. Here are two people from Gorlivka who were tortured to death for raising the Ukrainian flag. One hour ago, a third victim was discovered dumped in the same location. This is having a chilling effect on Ukrainians in the East who do not wish to be apart of Russia and seek freedom.

http://i1.wp.com/armstrongeconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Victims-Killed-for-Flag.jpg

Not adding fuel to the fire just sharing what I have bee found

News broadcast from Ukraine tonight showed a peaceful march of people that did not want to join Russia broken up by thugs beating them with batons.   They had been marching with police to protect them.  As soon as the thugs arrived, the police ran off.   The march had lots of women and children as well as the men and had caused no trouble at all.   The pro-russian thugs who had been marching separately just descended and started beating anyone they could get their hands on.

How do you know they were pro Russian

Beating people up is a very leftwing thing to do sassy

Maybe they were the UAF and thought the peaceful protesters where BNP??

Until the balloon goes up or pop we will never know.

Putin is IMO still being a Chess-master and the west are playing checkers.

What is very worrying is Ukraine was once a Russian territory and many speak Russian, it all being done in the name of the Russian minority speakers.

Put that several steps forward and we will have no England, Germany many speak Russian, Spain will become a small bit and the rest of Europe.....

gerber wrote:Until the balloon goes up or pop we will never know.

Putin is IMO still being a Chess-master and the west are playing checkers.

What is very worrying is Ukraine was once a Russian territory and many speak Russian, it all being done in the name of the Russian minority speakers.

Put that several steps forward and we will have no England, Germany many speak Russian, Spain will become a small bit and the rest of Europe.....

I don't see Russia as a threat in this

All Russia can be argued to be doing is no different to what NATO had done for decades

There is a difference between Russia instigating the reunification if some of its former territory and Russia trying to take Spain

All of this has been blown way out of proportion

smelly_bandit wrote:

gerber wrote:Until the balloon goes up or pop we will never know.

Putin is IMO still being a Chess-master and the west are playing checkers.

What is very worrying is Ukraine was once a Russian territory and many speak Russian, it all being done in the name of the Russian minority speakers.

Put that several steps forward and we will have no England, Germany many speak Russian, Spain will become a small bit and the rest of Europe.....

I don't see Russia as a threat in this

All Russia can be argued to be doing is no different to what NATO had done for decades

There is a difference between Russia instigating the reunification if some of its former territory and Russia trying to take Spain

All of this has been blown way out of proportion

I agree

Strange as though it may seem


hence my analogy. Could maybe have chosen better.

Russia is being taken to the limit by the media in the West and has so far behaved with respect.

We i.e the EU and the USA are the protagonists.............. not liking the makeup of the old Ukraine.....

And we are now in a beetroot soup.

gerber wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

I don't see Russia as a threat in this

All Russia can be argued to be doing is no different to what NATO had done for decades

There is a difference between Russia instigating the reunification if some of its former territory and Russia trying to take Spain

All of this has been blown way out of proportion

I agree

Strange as though it may seem


hence my analogy.  Could maybe have chosen better.

Russia is being taken to the limit by the media in the West and has so far behaved with respect.

We i.e the EU and the USA are the protagonists..............  not liking the makeup of the old Ukraine.....

And we are now in a beetroot soup.

Sorry Gerber you are having a bubble bath, the Russians are acting the protagonists , it is clear most of the militancy is orchestrated to say the least, let alone Russian military clearly being involved being involved. I mean how coincidental all of a sudden out of no where after the vote on Crimea, that the Russians, who are a minority elsewhere, and these militants are so organised in taking over many places, it is a puzzle, not. You would have to be the worst apologist ever to think Russia is not behind any of this
I find it unbelievable people claiming to be patriots of this country back an aggressor like Putin, in fact I find it appalling, no doubt if this had been 1939, you would have all been saying France and Britain were aggressors to Germany, even after they annexed the Sudetenland.
What next I mean if we use the logic of Tess that where a nation is part of another for a while, does it mean England is justified to invade Scotland, if they vote for independence, just as Ukraine wants to move more independently away from Russia, then Putin steps in and annexes Crimea, and you say the West is the protagonist?


Behave Gerber and in time you will see Putin face a tough time ahead, as his cronies start to feel the pinch.

Didge wrote:

Tesstacious wrote:

History of Ukraine:

...In 1653 the greater portion of the population rebelled against dominantly Polish Catholic rule and in January 1654 an assembly of the people (rada) voted at Pereyaslav to turn to Moscow, effectively joining the southeastern portion of the Polish-Lithuanian empire east of the Dnieper River to Russia...

They remained part of Russia for centuries; in the 1920s they became the Ukranian Soviet Socialist Republic.   In 1954 the republic expanded to the south with the transfer of the Crimea.

Ukraine became independent again when the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991. This dissolution started a period of transition to a market economy, in which Ukraine suffered an eight-year recession...

So, Didge, Ukraine's been part of Russia from 1654 to 1991...

Hilarious, read your first sentence Tess, so they never fought for independence either Tess.

Again you really know little of history and again, with that logic back the view of invading Poland by Germany.

Russia, fearing separatism, imposed strict limits on attempts to elevate the Ukrainian language and culture, even banning its use and study. The Russophile policies of Russification and Panslavism led to an exodus of a number of Ukrainian intellectuals into Western Ukraine. However, many Ukrainians accepted their fate in the Russian Empire and some were to achieve a great success there. Many Russian writers, composers, painters and architects of the 19th century were of Ukrainian descent. Probably the most notable were Nikolai Gogol, one of the greatest writers in the history of Russian literature, and Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, one of the greatest composers in the history of Russian music, whose father came of Ukrainian Cossack stock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine


I really feel sorry for you every time you post Tess

Was there a need for that remark? Every single post I make get this crap. I just give up trying to give any input to threads on this forum, when such an arrogant ignoramus can only respond with childish abuse. Do you know what, even Catman's insults at least can be amusing, but you....

I won't bother here, it's really not worth it. I'll stay a member to watch, but as for input - what's the point?

Tesstacious wrote:

Didge wrote:


Hilarious, read your first sentence Tess, so they never fought for independence either Tess.

Again you really know little of history and again, with that logic back the view of invading Poland by Germany.

Russia, fearing separatism, imposed strict limits on attempts to elevate the Ukrainian language and culture, even banning its use and study. The Russophile policies of Russification and Panslavism led to an exodus of a number of Ukrainian intellectuals into Western Ukraine. However, many Ukrainians accepted their fate in the Russian Empire and some were to achieve a great success there. Many Russian writers, composers, painters and architects of the 19th century were of Ukrainian descent. Probably the most notable were Nikolai Gogol, one of the greatest writers in the history of Russian literature, and Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, one of the greatest composers in the history of Russian music, whose father came of Ukrainian Cossack stock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine


I really feel sorry for you every time you post Tess

I really do Tess, you argue such silly views, that a country independent of Russia should now just let Russia do as it pleases and as people are claiming allow them to annex Ukraine, again that mentality we did allow once when the west allowed Hitler to annex the Sudetenland (which was formerly part of Germany) and look what happened after that? It did not end, Germany wanted more, just as Russia does, as clearly Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia all have reservations about Putin's intention. Seriously, I thought you were an advocate of democracy and freedoms?

It is like as I stated using the same logic as justifying England annexing Scotland if they vote for independence, that is how ridiculous a view point you and others advocate. Not only that, with no knowledge of what the Ukrainians want themselves, the one group of people you and others have left out of the equation. You glorify what amounts to nothing more than a dictator in Putin who whips up such anti Western sentiments that in Russia, around 75% are against the west, meaning not just me, but you also. Anything with a small sense of anti view to Putin, is crushed, that is nothing more than a dictatorship, hiding behind a smoke screen claiming to be democratic

Ukraine has a right to its independence and to decide its future, not Russia and nobody is fooled that they are not behind the militancy actions going on, well except you and a few others of course.

Tesstacious wrote:

Didge wrote:


Hilarious, read your first sentence Tess, so they never fought for independence either Tess.

Again you really know little of history and again, with that logic back the view of invading Poland by Germany.

Russia, fearing separatism, imposed strict limits on attempts to elevate the Ukrainian language and culture, even banning its use and study. The Russophile policies of Russification and Panslavism led to an exodus of a number of Ukrainian intellectuals into Western Ukraine. However, many Ukrainians accepted their fate in the Russian Empire and some were to achieve a great success there. Many Russian writers, composers, painters and architects of the 19th century were of Ukrainian descent. Probably the most notable were Nikolai Gogol, one of the greatest writers in the history of Russian literature, and Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, one of the greatest composers in the history of Russian music, whose father came of Ukrainian Cossack stock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine


I really feel sorry for you every time you post Tess

Was there a need for that remark?  Every single post I make get this crap.  I just give up trying to give any input to threads on this forum, when such an arrogant ignoramus can only respond with childish abuse.  Do you know what, even Catman's insults at least can be amusing, but you....

I won't bother here, it's really not worth it.  I'll stay a member to watch, but as for input - what's the point?

You dish out as much yourself Tess, so don;t play the victim card to me and you are capable of holding your own in debate, so stop with the victim nonsense, it is nothing more than a copout.
If you post as seen poor views, I will rubbish them, because, you smelly and others are trying to claim Putin is justified and as seen he is not, when using an argument of what was once a former part of Soviet Union, where many Ukrainians, were starved to death, shot out of hand and sent to camps in Siberia under Stalin. That is sheer nonsense on every level to claim he is justified, it uses as seen the same view point the Germans did to annex former territories..
Are you going to tell me the Germans were right to do so?
Of course not, so why is Putin right here, when he is not?
It is down to the Ukrainians to decide their future, not Putin

Didge wrote:

Tesstacious wrote:

Didge wrote:


Hilarious, read your first sentence Tess, so they never fought for independence either Tess.

Again you really know little of history and again, with that logic back the view of invading Poland by Germany.

Russia, fearing separatism, imposed strict limits on attempts to elevate the Ukrainian language and culture, even banning its use and study. The Russophile policies of Russification and Panslavism led to an exodus of a number of Ukrainian intellectuals into Western Ukraine. However, many Ukrainians accepted their fate in the Russian Empire and some were to achieve a great success there. Many Russian writers, composers, painters and architects of the 19th century were of Ukrainian descent. Probably the most notable were Nikolai Gogol, one of the greatest writers in the history of Russian literature, and Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, one of the greatest composers in the history of Russian music, whose father came of Ukrainian Cossack stock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine


I really feel sorry for you every time you post Tess

I really do Tess, you argue such silly views, that a country independent of Russia should now just let Russia do as it pleases and as people are claiming allow them to annex Ukraine, again that mentality we did allow once when the west allowed Hitler to annex the Sudetenland (which was formerly part of Germany) and look what happened after that? It did not end, Germany wanted more, just as Russia does, as clearly Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia all have reservations about Putin's intention. Seriously, I thought you were an advocate of democracy and freedoms?

It is like as I stated using the same logic as justifying England annexing Scotland if they vote for independence, that is how ridiculous a view point you and others advocate. Not only that, with no knowledge of what the Ukrainians want themselves, the one group of people you and others have left out of the equation. You glorify what amounts to nothing more than a dictator in Putin who whips up such anti Western sentiments that in Russia, around 75% are against the west, meaning not just me, but you also. Anything with a small sense of anti view to Putin, is crushed, that is nothing more than a dictatorship, hiding behind a smoke screen claiming to be democratic

Ukraine has a right to its independence and to decide its future, not Russia and nobody is fooled that they are not behind the militancy actions going on, well except you and a few others of course.

Tess is somewhat right   
While all of Ukraine is debatable Crimea is definitely historically Russian with Ethnic Russians making a large portion of the population.

And Putin is still no worse than Bush in the 'democratic' USA   Truth be told over the last 2 decades Russia has been a better international citizen than the USA   
http://americanhistory.about.com/od/elections/p/election2000.htm

Popular Vote:

The popular vote was won by Gore-Lieberman by 543,816 votes.

Bush-Cheney - 50,460,110
Gore-Lieberman - 51,003,926
Nader-LaDuke - 2,883,105
Buchanan-Foster - 449,225
Browne-Olivier - 384,516

Electoral Vote:

The electoral vote was won by Bush-Cheney by 5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_election_recount

Review method Winner
Review of all ballots statewide (never undertaken)
• Including dimples, optical marks, or overvotes Gore by 171
• Fully punched chad and limited marks on optical ballots Gore by 115
• Any dimples or optical mark Gore by 107
• One corner of chad detached or optical mark Gore by 60
Review of limited sets of ballots (initiated but not completed)
• Gore request for recounts of all ballots in Broward, Miami-Dade, Palm Beach, and Volusia counties Bush by 225
• Florida Supreme Court of all undervotes statewide Bush by 430
• Florida Supreme Court as being implemented by the counties, some of whom refused and some counted overvotes as well as undervotes Bush by 493
Unofficial recount totals
• Incomplete result when the Supreme Court stayed the recount (December 9, 2000) Bush by 154
Certified Result (official final count)
• Recounts included from Volusia and Broward only Bush by 537

And P.S. Ukrainian Cossacks were considered Russian under the Tsars (often serving in Royal Cavalry)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossacks

By the end of the 18th century, Cossack nations had been transformed into a special military estate (Sosloviye), "a military class".[13] Similar to the knights of medieval Europe in feudal times, the Cossacks came to military service having to obtain charger horses, arms, and supplies at their own expense. The government provided only firearms and supplies for them.[14] Cossack service was considered the most rigorous one.

Because of their military tradition, Cossack forces played an important role in Russia's wars of the 18th–20th centuries such as the Great Northern War, the Seven Years' War, the Crimean War, Napoleonic Wars, Caucasus War, numerous Russo-Turkish Wars, and the First World War. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the Tsarist regime used Cossacks extensively to perform police service (for example, both to prevent pogroms and to suppress the revolutionary movement, especially in 1905–7).[15] They also served as border guards on national and internal ethnic borders (as was the case in the Caucasus War).

The Issue is not as Black and White as you make it, Plus Do you REALLY trust the news we get in the West as reliable regarding it's old enemy the Dastardly Commies      

Sorry Veya you are yet again very wrong, most of the people originally from the Crimea were displaced by Stalin, before, during and after WW2, the Cossack and Tartars for one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union


Again though, Russia has no right to because now it has more ethnic Russians, live in Crimea and Putin force a vote without all of Ukraine voting when it was part of the Ukraine, sorry that is absurd Veya.
So historically you are wrong and demographically you are wrong
Also they are arguing that Russia should be able to take Ukraine also.
Also again it is a a view point the Germans used to annex lands, how is that having a point exactly Veya, or do not the Ukrainians matter in any of this?
Blimey I think England should annex America and Australia and bring those colonials back into check eh?


  

Irrelevant in the face of one thing the people there NOW want to be Russian

A referendum was held and the Crimea reunified with mother Russia comrade

How many teddies do you HAVE in that cot didge??

smelly_bandit wrote:Irrelevant in the face of one thing the people there NOW want to be Russian

A referendum was held and the Crimea reunified with mother Russia comrade

How many teddies do you HAVE in that cot didge??

All the people of Ukraine, who were left out of it by force, who do you have?

So not irrelevant after all, as seen it was annexed and Ukraine had no say because it was Putin throwing his dummy out over a pro European Ukraine to a very much demographically changed Crimea as it once used to be, which.
Again you have no argument, your argument, backs the view of Germany annexing Austria, the Sudetentland and Czechoslovakia.

veya_victaous wrote:

Didge wrote:


I really do Tess, you argue such silly views, that a country independent of Russia should now just let Russia do as it pleases and as people are claiming allow them to annex Ukraine, again that mentality we did allow once when the west allowed Hitler to annex the Sudetenland (which was formerly part of Germany) and look what happened after that? It did not end, Germany wanted more, just as Russia does, as clearly Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia all have reservations about Putin's intention. Seriously, I thought you were an advocate of democracy and freedoms?

It is like as I stated using the same logic as justifying England annexing Scotland if they vote for independence, that is how ridiculous a view point you and others advocate. Not only that, with no knowledge of what the Ukrainians want themselves, the one group of people you and others have left out of the equation. You glorify what amounts to nothing more than a dictator in Putin who whips up such anti Western sentiments that in Russia, around 75% are against the west, meaning not just me, but you also. Anything with a small sense of anti view to Putin, is crushed, that is nothing more than a dictatorship, hiding behind a smoke screen claiming to be democratic

Ukraine has a right to its independence and to decide its future, not Russia and nobody is fooled that they are not behind the militancy actions going on, well except you and a few others of course.

Tess is somewhat right   
While all of Ukraine is debatable Crimea is definitely historically Russian with Ethnic Russians making a large portion of the population.

And Putin is still no worse than Bush in the 'democratic' USA   Truth be told over the last 2 decades Russia has been a better international citizen than the USA   
http://americanhistory.about.com/od/elections/p/election2000.htm

Popular Vote:

The popular vote was won by Gore-Lieberman by 543,816 votes.

   Bush-Cheney - 50,460,110
   Gore-Lieberman - 51,003,926
   Nader-LaDuke - 2,883,105
   Buchanan-Foster - 449,225
   Browne-Olivier - 384,516

Electoral Vote:

The electoral vote was won by Bush-Cheney by 5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_election_recount

Review method                                                              Winner
Review of all ballots statewide (never undertaken)
•   Including dimples, optical marks, or overvotes Gore by 171
•   Fully punched chad and limited marks on optical ballots Gore by 115
•   Any dimples or optical mark Gore by 107
•   One corner of chad detached or optical mark Gore by 60
Review of limited sets of ballots (initiated but not completed)
•   Gore request for recounts of all ballots in Broward, Miami-Dade, Palm Beach, and Volusia counties Bush by 225
•   Florida Supreme Court of all undervotes statewide Bush by 430
•   Florida Supreme Court as being implemented by the counties, some of whom refused and some counted overvotes as well as undervotes Bush by 493
Unofficial recount totals
•   Incomplete result when the Supreme Court stayed the recount (December 9, 2000) Bush by 154
Certified Result (official final count)
•   Recounts included from Volusia and Broward only Bush by 537

And P.S. Ukrainian Cossacks were considered Russian under the Tsars (often serving in Royal Cavalry)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossacks

By the end of the 18th century, Cossack nations had been transformed into a special military estate (Sosloviye), "a military class".[13] Similar to the knights of medieval Europe in feudal times, the Cossacks came to military service having to obtain charger horses, arms, and supplies at their own expense. The government provided only firearms and supplies for them.[14] Cossack service was considered the most rigorous one.

Because of their military tradition, Cossack forces played an important role in Russia's wars of the 18th–20th centuries such as the Great Northern War, the Seven Years' War, the Crimean War, Napoleonic Wars, Caucasus War, numerous Russo-Turkish Wars, and the First World War. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the Tsarist regime used Cossacks extensively to perform police service (for example, both to prevent pogroms and to suppress the revolutionary movement, especially in 1905–7).[15] They also served as border guards on national and internal ethnic borders (as was the case in the Caucasus War).

The Issue is not as Black and White as you make it, Plus Do you REALLY trust the news we get in the West as reliable regarding it's old enemy the Dastardly Commies       

Good afternoon Veya.

Veya your comments regarding the Russians & Americans are so,so correct.