Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

As usual, you are slow to grasp a dynamic point.

These are uncharted waters, but the action at hand is at the behest of the UK.  Scotland asks for nothing but to be left in its place.  So the action here to be taken would be that of the UK.  Scotland has no need for a referendum.

Furthermore, Scotland's position vis-a-vis the EU is to do nothing.  Permit its continued membership.  If it ousts Scotland, it is gratuitous.

As soon as this is all accomplished, the Pacific States of America will be extending an invitation to Scotland to join it in a grand awakening of the new, New World.

Cheers...

More gibberish

Scotland is binded by a union signed treaty and treaties are binding through international law
Scotland alsio did ask to be left in its place and the majority of Scots wanted to be in the same place. As part of the uk.
So again in two situations, we see the left want make a mockery of democracy and self determination and act like dictators, when they do not get their way. So again for the very slow witted, once the UK invokes artcile 50, which will bring into effect the Uk becoming seperated from the EU. That Scotland will. also seperate, being as this was not a vote just for the Scottish people but a vote for the people of the United Kingdom. Well if Scotland took up your offer to join your so called new world in the US, they would be taking 3 steps backwards, being as under UK law, people have far more equality, than they do in the US.
So let me repeat for the uneducated.

Scotland, if it wants to become a part of the EU, once the UK has left.
Has to first obtain a second referendum to vote for independence. As they have only just recently had one, the likelyhood, is that th4 next one would not even be set for at least 10 years. As one was already held 2 years ago, whgen people knew back then of the possibility. That the Uk would vote to leave. What you are again doing is placing all those who voted to remain as part of the UK as insignificant. That where they fought they had won the battle to keep Scotland as a part of the Uk for decades to come. Aliong comes some regressives. Who propose, ignoring international law, breaking treaties illegally, going againts the wishes of the majority view of a people, where they are left toi feel that any further voting is pointless, as the say has become meaningless. To last of all, render democracy redundent and issue in a new age of Regresive lefty tyrants

Eilzel wrote:Nicola Sturgeon has said might not agree to legislate to leave the EU. That would create some sort of crisis wouldn't it? And would she not be simply execising her role as First Minister is Scotland by defending the vast majority of her country? This could get interesting.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:


More gibberish

Scotland is binded by a union signed treaty and treaties are binding through international law
Scotland alsio did ask to be left in its place and the majority of Scots wanted to be in the same place. As part of the uk.
So again in two situations, we see the left want make a mockery of democracy and self determination and act like dictators, when they do not get their way. So again for the very slow witted, once the UK invokes artcile 50, which will bring into effect the Uk becoming seperated from the EU. That Scotland will. also seperate, being as this was not a vote just for the Scottish people but a vote for the people of the United Kingdom. Well if Scotland took up your offer to join your so called new world in the US, they would be taking 3 steps backwards, being as under UK law, people have far more equality, than they do in the US.
So let me repeat for the uneducated.

Scotland, if it wants to become a part of the EU, once the UK has left.
Has to first obtain a second referendum to vote for independence. As they have only just recently had one, the likelyhood, is that th4 next one would not even be set for at least 10 years. As one was already held 2 years ago, whgen people knew back then of the possibility. That the Uk would vote to leave. What you are again doing is placing all those who voted to remain as part of the UK as insignificant. That where they fought they had won the battle to keep Scotland as a part of the Uk for decades to come. Aliong comes some regressives. Who propose, ignoring international law, breaking treaties illegally, going againts the wishes of the majority view of a people, where they are left toi feel that any further voting is pointless, as the say has become meaningless. To last of all, render democracy redundent and issue in a new age of Regresive lefty tyrants

Ignorant, knuckledraggin' thinking, at best.  You are bringing up The Union of England and Scotland Act of 1603?  Man, you are desperate.  That is one of the most questioned pieces of fraud in history.  Books have been written on that piece of rubbish.

You don't need foundation documents, in any event.  You are heaping on bullshit after shovel full of bullshit.  You don't need referendums and secessions; that's all much-ado-about-nothing.  All you need is a simple communication to (1) the UK; and (2) the EU, declaring that Scotland wishes to remain in the EU, and that it will not recognize any action taken by either party to change that.  End of....  Watch 'em stew.

The devil is in the details, didge.  Who really cares the outcome in the short term?  Once Scotland openly declares that any such moves are outlawry, then all sorts of options come open.  And watch the international community come to Scotland's side.  Brilliant.

Eilzel wrote:Nicola Sturgeon has said might not agree to legislate to leave the EU. That would create some sort of crisis wouldn't it? And would she not be simply execising her role as First Minister is Scotland by defending the vast majority of her country? This could get interesting.

Didge wrote:Which [Sturgeon] can do and hav zero effect and then she can be removed from office.

Tommy Monk wrote:And they already in larger numbers to remain in the UK... knowing full well what was coming...

Tommy Monk wrote:No... they voted in larger numbers already to remain in uk...

Most Scots didn't vote to remain in eu...

Syl wrote:In the unlikely event that Scotland did call for another referendum to separate themselves from England, would this mean we can stop subsidising their uni student fees (it costs our youngsters in excess of £9000 pa)

What about prescriptions ...theirs are free to everyone...ours are £8.40 for every item unless you are exempt from paying for some reason.

Hospital car park fees....free in Scotland, can be up to £15 per day in England.

Original Quill wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Nicola Sturgeon has said might not agree to legislate to leave the EU. That would create some sort of crisis wouldn't it? And would she not be simply execising her role as First Minister is Scotland by defending the vast majority of her country? This could get interesting.

I offer as exhibit one:

Didge wrote:Which [Sturgeon] can do and hav zero effect and then she can be removed from office.

Do you now see the turmoil that will set the UK in?  Ms. Sturgeon's party, the SNP, has 63 of the 129 Holyrood seats.  The Scottish public voted 62% backing remain, and 38% wanting to go...in effect, raising he support of the SNP.  She almost has to put it to a vote.

Then let's hear from Westminster.

Tommy Monk wrote:Wrong... that is just twisty waffle... and you know it!!!

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:In the unlikely event that Scotland did call for another referendum to separate themselves from England, would this mean we can stop subsidising their uni student fees (it costs our youngsters in excess of £9000 pa)

What about prescriptions ...theirs are free to everyone...ours are £8.40 for every item unless you are exempt from paying for some reason.

Hospital car park fees....free in Scotland, can be up to £15 per day in England.

See, tommy?  Scotland is more in step with the EU than it is with the UK, anyway.  So why not?

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Wrong... that is just twisty waffle... and you know it!!!

It's Political Science 101, tommy.  Didn't you ever go to uni?

Geopolitical chess.

Syl wrote:Scotland had their chance to be an independent country....the vote was over 55% to stay ...44% to go it alone.

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:Scotland had their chance to be an independent country....the vote was over 55% to stay ...44% to go it alone.

Referendum is a different matter, Syl.   This thread is about Scotland's standing pat in the EU.

The option is not Scotland separating from England, but England abandoning Scotland.  England is the one that wants changes.  

Let them.  Just leave the rest alone.

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

It's Political Science 101, tommy.  Didn't you ever go to uni?

Geopolitical chess.

Yes but the type of chess you play is clearly called suicidal chess, when the objective is to  sacrifice all of your pecies/people, in order to win. Which really is about as close as it gets to defining leftism

Have a good evening

Syl wrote:England have not abandoned Scotland....Scotland chose to stay connected to England so they must go along with the end result.

Tommy Monk wrote:Our leftie labour party set up the Scottish and Welsh parliaments...


But this was a uk decision...for the UK as a should to decide... the decision has been made to leave the eu...

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:England have not abandoned Scotland....Scotland chose to stay connected to England so they must go along with the end result.

I agree with you on everything except the 'so...' part.  Devolution has incrementally led to a Scotland that thinks for itself.  Remember Scotland's auld alliance?  She always was more European than British.

Now, Scotland is recognizing that it has self-determination.  This will help to fix it's place on the continuum for now.

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I agree with you on everything except the 'so...' part.  Devolution has incrementally led to a Scotland that thinks for itself.  Remember Scotland's auld alliance?  She always was more European than British.

Now, Scotland is recognizing that it has self-determination.  This will help to fix it's place on the continuum for now.

So the way forwards then....Scotland will have a second independence referendum....perhaps the majority will now vote 'Yes'.

Syl wrote:A wall will be built to separate the two countries.....

Syl wrote:Scotland will apply to rejoin the EU. England can stop subsidising them. The Scottish population is ageing....less money to contribute towards students, the NHS etc....so the EU will be giving them a lot more back than they can contribute.....hmmmm....

Syl wrote:I think Scotland would be the losers here...and that's IF they were allowed back into the EU, which is doubtful.

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:

So the way forwards then....Scotland will have a second independence referendum....perhaps the majority will now vote 'Yes'.

It's a free country, call it what you wish lass.  As for them, they are just saying no and staying in the EU.

Syl wrote:A wall will be built to separate the two countries.....

And maybe you can get Mexico to pay for it.  

Syl wrote:Scotland will apply to rejoin the EU. England can stop subsidising them. The Scottish population is ageing....less money to contribute towards students, the NHS etc....so the EU will be giving them a lot more back than they can contribute.....hmmmm....

Scotland doesn't have to apply to rejoin anything.  She's already a member of the EU.

Syl wrote:I think Scotland would be the losers here...and that's IF they were allowed back into the EU, which is doubtful.

I'm quite sure Scotland will do fine.  She has the four finest universities in the British Isles, perhaps all of Europe, and is turning out brilliant minds, who will help Scotland soar to the top of the heap.  Who knows, maybe alone she is the leadership gem that the EU needs to solve its problems.

It won't be the first time that a Scot came to the rescue.

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

It's a free country, call it what you wish lass.  As for them, they are just saying no and staying in the EU.



And maybe you can get Mexico to pay for it.  



Scotland doesn't have to apply to rejoin anything.  She's already a member of the EU.



I'm quite sure Scotland will do fine.  She has the four finest universities in the British Isles, perhaps all of Europe, and is turning out brilliant minds, who will help Scotland soar to the top of the heap.  Who knows, maybe alone she is the leadership gem that the EU needs to solve its problems.

It won't be the first time that a Scot came to the rescue.

Well it's Nicola Sturgeon not me who is talking about having a second independence referendum Quill.

Int'l Business Times wrote:Sturgeon, the leader of the Scottish National Party, which holds 63 of the 129 seats at Holyrood, said: "The issue you are talking about is would there have to be a legislative consent motion or motions for the legislation that extricates the UK from the European Union?

"Looking at it from a logical perspective, I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be that requirement - I suspect that the UK government will take a very different view on that and we'll have to see where that discussion ends up."

Syl wrote:Mexico are your neighbours not ours....if a wall is to separate England and Scotland we can both contribute to the cost.

Syl wrote:Scotland along with the rest of the UK are now no longer EU members....we voted OUT remember.

Syl wrote:I hope everyone does well in the future.......new times for us all, and one thing is for certain, in spite of all the doom and gloom some people predict, only time will tell.

nicko wrote:I don't know why Sturgeon thinks the EU will accept them,    they don't meet any of the criteria for joining.

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I agree with you on everything except the 'so...' part.  Devolution has incrementally led to a Scotland that thinks for itself.  Remember Scotland's auld alliance?  She always was more European than British.

Now, Scotland is recognizing that it has self-determination.  This will help to fix it's place on the continuum for now.

So the way forwards then....Scotland will have a second independence referendum....perhaps the majority will now vote 'Yes'.

A wall will be built to separate the two countries.....Scotland will apply to rejoin the EU. England can stop subsidising them. The Scottish population is ageing....less money to contribute towards students, the NHS etc....so the EU will be giving them a lot more back than they can contribute.....hmmmm....

I think Scotland would be the losers here...and that's IF they were allowed back into the EU, which is doubtful.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I agree with you on everything except the 'so...' part.  Devolution has incrementally led to a Scotland that thinks for itself.  Remember Scotland's auld alliance?  She always was more European than British.

Now, Scotland is recognizing that it has self-determination.  This will help to fix it's place on the continuum for now.

So the way forwards then....Scotland will have a second independence referendum....perhaps the majority will now vote 'Yes'.

A wall will be built to separate the two countries.....Scotland will apply to rejoin the EU. England can stop subsidising them. The Scottish population is ageing....less money to contribute towards students, the NHS etc....so the EU will be giving them a lot more back than they can contribute.....hmmmm....

I think Scotland would be the losers here...and that's IF they were allowed back into the EU, which is doubtful.

And they'd have to have the euro and be a tiny stand alone vessel state... as part of the uk they are big hitters... as a stand alone state with a population smaller than London they will get rinsed out by the eu!!!


They know what side their bread is buttered...

sassy wrote:Leading Scottish politicians are calling for another referendum on independence from the UK after Britain voted to exit the EU. The Scottish public backed staying in the bloc and former SNP leader Alex Salmond says Scotland should “never leave the EU.”


Salmond made the comments during an interview with Sky News: “The sensible thing for Scotland to do would never be to leave the European Union,” he said.

His comments were backed by the current leader of the SNP, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, who is also backing a second independence vote, after 62 percent of the population voted to remain in Europe. This was against the tide of the rest of the UK where 52 percent voted to leave the bloc.

"Scotland has delivered a strong, unequivocal vote to remain in the EU, and I welcome that endorsement of our European status," Sturgeon said on Friday before the final result was known, as cited by Reuters.

"Scotland has contributed significantly to the Remain vote across the UK. That reflects the positive campaign the SNP fought, which highlighted the gains and benefits of our EU membership, and people across Scotland have responded to that positive message,” she added. 
Sturgeon has remained consistent about her threat to call a second referendum. Speaking in April, she said: “The Scottish parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people.” 


In May, Salmond said Scotland would not be pulled out of the EU “against its will.”  



https://www.rt.com/uk/348160-scotland-brexit-uk-independence/

veya_victaous wrote:LOL the UK is only a bigger hitter with the EU
You have voted to cease being a big hitter.

Eilzel wrote:Tommy you say UK is the 6th largest economy. We were 5th largest last week. What happened?

veya_victaous wrote:LOL the UK is only a bigger hitter with the EU
You have voted to cease being a big hitter.

The Devil, You Know wrote:perhaps we can organise a petition for a referendum to refuse scotland the use of the pound if they chose to leave. although if they join the EU they will have to accept the euro anyway.
10 years without a currency might put a damper on things.

Scotland's three largest clearing banks (the Royal Bank of Scotland, the Bank of Scotland and the Clydesdale Bank) still print paper notes denominated in pounds sterling. These notes may be accepted as payment throughout the United Kingdom, but are much more commonly seen in Scotland; they represent the same Pound Sterling value as do Bank of England notes in England and Wales.

Original Quill wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:LOL the UK is only a bigger hitter with the EU
You have voted to cease being a big hitter.

I wasn't going to say anything, but...

The UK is a big hitter in the lap of the US Republicans.  That's it.  If you think Trump will win, tommy, great!!  Personally, I think the UK's big hitting days are over.

And tommy, the sixth largest economy in the world is the state of California, with France dropping to seventh.

didge wrote:California is not a countrybut a state, thus is part of the US, so it does not count in country rankings

The Devil, You Know wrote:
perhaps we can organise a petition for a referendum to refuse scotland the use of the pound if they chose to leave. although if they join the EU they will have to accept the euro anyway.
10 years without a currency might put a damper on things.

Original Quill wrote:

didge wrote:California is not a countrybut a state, thus is part of the US, so it does not count in country rankings

Fook, that didge is really smart, ain't he?  Bet he knows his ABC's too...and 'is times tables.  Damn!

But you know...I don't geeve a sheet.  California's still the sixth largest economy in the world.

Original Quill wrote:

didge wrote:California is not a countrybut a state, thus is part of the US, so it does not count in country rankings

Fook, that didge is really smart, ain't he?  Bet he knows his ABC's too...and 'is times tables.  Damn!

But you know...I don't geeve a sheet.  California's still the sixth largest economy in the world.

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

didge wrote:California is not a countrybut a state, thus is part of the US, so it does not count in country rankings

Fook, that didge is really smart, ain't he?  Bet he knows his ABC's too...and 'is times tables.  Damn!

But you know...I don't geeve a sheet.  California's still the sixth largest economy in the world.

Ah and as per usual the lefty can resort to abuse

Again California is part of the US, and thus is part of the US economy


doh

Ben Reilly wrote:

Didge wrote:


Ah and as per usual the lefty can resort to abuse

Again California is part of the US, and thus is part of the US economy


doh

It's a matter of perspective, so I see why you don't understand