Sturgeon: Scotland might vote to block Brexit

Nicola Sturgeon has suggested that the Scottish parliament could block the passage of legislation necessary for the UK to leave the EU.

In an interview with the Sunday Politics Scotland, she said that “of course” she would consider asking the Scottish parliament to vote down the legislative consent motions required for the legislation.

In her fifth major political interview of the morning, Scotland’s first minister told the show’s host, Gordon Brewer: “If the Scottish parliament is judging this on the basis of what’s right for Scotland, then the option of saying we’re not going to vote for something that’s against Scotland’s interests, that’s got to be on the table. You’re not going to vote for something that is not in Scotland’s interests.”

Asked if she could imagine the fury of English people who voted for Brexit if Scotland tried to block the UK leaving the EU, she said: “I can, but it’s perhaps similar to the fury of many people in Scotland right now as we face the prospect of being taken out of the EU against their will. I didn’t create these situations. I’m trying to navigate the best way forward through them.”

Adam Tomkins, leading constitutional law expert and newly elected Conservative MSP, made the point that Sturgeon’s words should be interpreted carefully, given that there was a huge difference between withholding consent and having a veto.

“Holyrood has no power to block Brexit. It is not clear that a legislative consent motion would be triggered by Brexit, but withholding consent is not the same as having the power to block. The Scottish parliament does not hold the legal power to block [the UK exiting the EU].”

He added that the Holyrood parliament was not powerless – for example, it could refuse to give its consent to changes to the devolution settlement required by Brexit – but that its power simply does not extend to having a veto.

Tommy Monk wrote:
“Holyrood has no power to block Brexit."

From the article.

Just a load of hot air.

Ben Reilly wrote:

Nicola Sturgeon has suggested that the Scottish parliament could block the passage of legislation necessary for the UK to leave the EU.

In an interview with the Sunday Politics Scotland, she said that “of course” she would consider asking the Scottish parliament to vote down the legislative consent motions required for the legislation.

In her fifth major political interview of the morning, Scotland’s first minister told the show’s host, Gordon Brewer: “If the Scottish parliament is judging this on the basis of what’s right for Scotland, then the option of saying we’re not going to vote for something that’s against Scotland’s interests, that’s got to be on the table. You’re not going to vote for something that is not in Scotland’s interests.”

Asked if she could imagine the fury of English people who voted for Brexit if Scotland tried to block the UK leaving the EU, she said: “I can, but it’s perhaps similar to the fury of many people in Scotland right now as we face the prospect of being taken out of the EU against their will. I didn’t create these situations. I’m trying to navigate the best way forward through them.”

Adam Tomkins, leading constitutional law expert and newly elected Conservative MSP, made the point that Sturgeon’s words should be interpreted carefully, given that there was a huge difference between withholding consent and having a veto.

“Holyrood has no power to block Brexit. It is not clear that a legislative consent motion would be triggered by Brexit, but withholding consent is not the same as having the power to block. The Scottish parliament does not hold the legal power to block [the UK exiting the EU].”

He added that the Holyrood parliament was not powerless – for example, it could refuse to give its consent to changes to the devolution settlement required by Brexit – but that its power simply does not extend to having a veto.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/nicola-sturgeon-new-scottish-referendum-brexit

Tommy Monk wrote:

“Holyrood has no power to block Brexit."


From the article.


Just a load of hot air.

Jo Murkens, an associate professor of law at the London School of Economics I spoke with about this, told me that this isn’t actually an iron-clad veto. The Scotland Act was passed by the UK Parliament, and Parliament can amend it on its own to reduce the Scottish Parliament’s powers.

To exit the EU and avoid a binding Scottish veto, "Parliament would have to repeal the European Communities Act 1972 (by which it became a member) and would also have to amend the devolution legislation pertaining to Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland," Murkens said. "That strikes me as technically easy, but politically difficult."

If the Conservative Party is insistent on Brexiting and is willing to overturn decades of law giving Northern Ireland and Scotland (both of which voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU) local control over their affairs, then it can totally do so.

But, as Murkens also noted, such a dramatic action could risk a huge backlash. Scotland is already planning to hold another independence referendum, and seeing devolution curtailed would make its success much more likely. Northern Irish republicans would be emboldened to call for unification with the Republic of Ireland, which could occur, or they could just reignite the Troubles after decades of peace.

If the overriding objective of Conservatives, however, is to "preserve the integrity of the United Kingdom as a state," Murkens said, "the objective of keeping NI and Scotland in the United Kingdom would turn them into veto players … Scotland and NI have voted to remain and the cost of not listening to them would be to split the UK."

Ben Reilly wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

“Holyrood has no power to block Brexit."


From the article.


Just a load of hot air.

Jo Murkens, an associate professor of law at the London School of Economics I spoke with about this, told me that this isn’t actually an iron-clad veto. The Scotland Act was passed by the UK Parliament, and Parliament can amend it on its own to reduce the Scottish Parliament’s powers.

To exit the EU and avoid a binding Scottish veto, "Parliament would have to repeal the European Communities Act 1972 (by which it became a member) and would also have to amend the devolution legislation pertaining to Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland," Murkens said. "That strikes me as technically easy, but politically difficult."

If the Conservative Party is insistent on Brexiting and is willing to overturn decades of law giving Northern Ireland and Scotland (both of which voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU) local control over their affairs, then it can totally do so.

But, as Murkens also noted, such a dramatic action could risk a huge backlash. Scotland is already planning to hold another independence referendum, and seeing devolution curtailed would make its success much more likely. Northern Irish republicans would be emboldened to call for unification with the Republic of Ireland, which could occur, or they could just reignite the Troubles after decades of peace.

If the overriding objective of Conservatives, however, is to "preserve the integrity of the United Kingdom as a state," Murkens said, "the objective of keeping NI and Scotland in the United Kingdom would turn them into veto players … Scotland and NI have voted to remain and the cost of not listening to them would be to split the UK."

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/25/12031254/no-brexit-article-50

Tommy Monk wrote:It's own system is very limited and subservient to uk.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:It's own system is very limited and subservient to uk.

That's what Edward I said, and it's what Henry VIII said.  Scots sure ain't impressed if you're gonna repeat it.

Didge wrote:The most funniest aspect of this, is to this day native Americans do not have self determination or a nation of their own independence and the Yanks on here have the cheek to go on about Scotland, when we have given them a referendum.

Irony at its best

The Cherokee Nation is the federally-recognized government of the Cherokee people and has inherent sovereign status recognized by treaty and law. The seat of tribal government is the W.W. Keeler Complex near Tahlequah, Okla., the capital of the Cherokee Nation.

With more than 317,000 citizens, over 8,000 employees and a variety of tribal enterprises ranging from aerospace and defense contracts to entertainment venues, Cherokee Nation’s economic impact in Oklahoma and surrounding areas is more than $1.5 billion annually. We are one of the largest employers in northeastern Oklahoma. We are the largest tribal nation in the United States.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:It's own system is very limited and subservient to uk.

That's what Edward I said, and it's what Henry VIII said.  Scots sure ain't impressed if you're gonna repeat it.

sassy wrote:Scotland welcome to join EU, Merkel ally says


An independent Scotland would be welcome to join the European Union, a senior German lawmaker and ally of Chancellor Angela Merkel has said after Britain's vote to leave the bloc.

"The EU will still consist of 28 member states, as I expect a new independence referendum in Scotland, which will then be successful," said Gunther Krichbaum, a member of Merkel's conservatives and chairman of the European affairs committee in parliament.

"We should respond quickly to an application for admission from the EU-friendly country," he told the Welt am Sonntag newspaper.

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said on Sunday that Scotland will do whatever it takes to remain in the EU, including potentially blocking legislation on a British exit from the bloc.

While Britain as a whole voted narrowly to leave the EU in last Thursday's referendum, Scotland voted by a 62 percent to 38 percent margin to remain. In a referendum in 2014 Scotland voted 55 percent to 45 percent to stay part of the United Kingdom, but polls show that support for independence has since risen.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-scotland-germany-idUKKCN0ZC0R1

Tommy Monk wrote:Once we leave the eu and Scotland vote to leave the UK... then they can start joining up as a tiny country getting shafted by the eu and the euro...

Good luck with that!!!

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Once we leave the eu and Scotland vote to leave the UK... then they can start joining up as a tiny country getting shafted by the eu and the euro...

Good luck with that!!!

Sounds like sour grapes, tommy.  After all, it'll hardly be any of your business.

sassy wrote:Very large poll done in Scotland over the weekend showed that nearly 70% would vote for independence now.

Original Quill wrote:

sassy wrote:Very large poll done in Scotland over the weekend showed that nearly 70% would vote for independence now.

And with the UK (England) making enemies on such a large scale, I'm predicting a stampede in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Didge wrote:Not only is that not full independence, but what about the other native tribes
Like I say, get your own shit on order before you bemoan other nations

Ben Reilly wrote:

Didge wrote:Not only is that not full independence, but what about the other native tribes
Like I say, get your own shit on order before you bemoan other nations

It's equivalent to statehood, but you've never really understood how that works so we won't try that again here.

The other tribes have similar sovereignty -- don't blame me for your lack of research. You think it would just be the Cherokee?

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Once we leave the eu and Scotland vote to leave the UK... then they can start joining up as a tiny country getting shafted by the eu and the euro...

Good luck with that!!!

Sounds like sour grapes, tommy.  After all, it'll hardly be any of your business.

Didge wrote:Germany is but one EU state and all have to apporve for Scotland to join, which takes years to do, which people on here seem to struggle to understand.
They are already welcoming other countries to join and they are having to wait, so scotland would have to do the same

veya_victaous wrote:

Didge wrote:Germany is but one EU state and all have to apporve for Scotland to join, which takes years to do, which people on here seem to struggle to understand.
They are already welcoming other countries to join and they are having to wait, so scotland would have to do the same

probobly not
for political purposes it will be stream lined

do you not understand the EU WANTS TO FUCK THE UK now
most of the world supports them doing so (as it will provide stability)
You are not playing nice so YES we all understand they are not going to play nice in return.
the harder and faster the fuck you the better for the global economy
as the quicker everything returns to 'normal' for the rest of us.

Didge wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

Didge wrote:Not only is that not full independence, but what about the other native tribes
Like I say, get your own shit on order before you bemoan other nations

It's equivalent to statehood, but you've never really understood how that works so we won't try that again here.

The other tribes have similar sovereignty -- don't blame me for your lack of research. You think it would just be the Cherokee?

Its equivalent to Scotland in the UK, showing you do not understand how things work
So none have indepence and stop lying like you constantly do

veya_victaous wrote:

Didge wrote:

Its equivalent to Scotland in the UK, showing you do not understand how things work
So none have indepence and stop lying like you constantly do

I worked out the problem        
You think the indigenous are as stupid as the English

No they are not so naive and simple in their world view.
Strangely when your culture has experienced evil come from the other side of the world and fuck you up
You appreciate peace, prosperity and safety that is provided as part of a 'Federation of States'

Didge wrote:Germany is but one EU state and all have to apporve for Scotland to join, which takes years to do, which people on here seem to struggle to understand.
They are already welcoming other countries to join and they are having to wait, so scotland would have to do the same

Irn Bru wrote:

Didge wrote:Germany is but one EU state and all have to apporve for Scotland to join, which takes years to do, which people on here seem to struggle to understand.
They are already welcoming other countries to join and they are having to wait, so scotland would have to do the same

That's just not true now. Each member state is entitled to give an opinion for the EU parliament to consider but no country has an absolute veto to deny a new country admission.

Raggamuffin wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Didge wrote:Germany is but one EU state and all have to apporve for Scotland to join, which takes years to do, which people on here seem to struggle to understand.
They are already welcoming other countries to join and they are having to wait, so scotland would have to do the same

probobly not
for political purposes it will be stream lined

do you not understand the EU WANTS TO FUCK THE UK now
most of the world supports them doing so (as it will provide stability)
You are not playing nice so YES we all understand they are not going to play nice in return.
the harder and faster the fuck you the better for the global economy
as the quicker everything returns to 'normal' for the rest of us.

It's already normal for the Aussies. I doubt they even put down their cans of beer when they saw the result. It's not your business really is it?

veya_victaous wrote:cause now you get fucked harder, you will realise you were not gettign fucked at all before. you just had what every other non-super power had. now you are going to have less as super powers now want you to suffer.

And no Sympathy will be given the englishmen cause it is still so much nicer and less cruel than when you where a super power.

these are just the facts of life, you fucked with a bigger stronger beast then yourself, now you will pay the consequence.

veya_victaous wrote:What happened to the people that Fucked with the British when the British were a super power? In fact what happened to people that just happened to have something the British wanted to take?

So what do you think will happen to the British Now that they are fucking with a super power? On Purpose and by Popular vote no less!

Already this super power has been infinitely nicer and more accommodating of your culture and concerns than pretty much any super power in history and You STILL feel hard done by. And expect sympathy for the Choosing this Fate.      

Didge wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

It's equivalent to statehood, but you've never really understood how that works so we won't try that again here.

The other tribes have similar sovereignty -- don't blame me for your lack of research. You think it would just be the Cherokee?

Its equivalent to Scotland in the UK, showing you do not understand how things work
So none have indepence and stop lying like you constantly do

Tommy Monk wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:cause now you get fucked harder, you will realise you were not gettign fucked at all before. you just had what every other non-super power had. now you are going to have less as super powers now want you to suffer.

And no Sympathy will be given the englishmen cause it is still so much nicer and less cruel than when you where a super power.

these are just the facts of life, you fucked with a bigger stronger beast then yourself, now you will pay the consequence.

And you wonder why people want out...!?


You really are a nasty piece of work...

Raggamuffin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:
And you wonder why people want out...!?
You really are a nasty piece of work...j

Yes, he is a nasty piece of work. It's awful that he's a moderator here, with the full backing of Ben and eddie.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:cause now you get fucked harder, you will realise you were not gettign fucked at all before. you just had what every other non-super power had. now you are going to have less as super powers now want you to suffer.

And no Sympathy will be given the englishmen cause it is still so much nicer and less cruel than when you where a super power.

these are just the facts of life, you fucked with a bigger stronger beast then yourself, now you will pay the consequence.

And you wonder why people want out...!?


You really are a nasty piece of work...

Yes, he is a nasty piece of work. It's awful that he's a moderator here, with the full backing of Ben and eddie.