don't let them back in the country!!!

by Guest Tue May 12, 2015 10:37 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3078579/Three-British-teenage-Jihadi-brides-married-militants-Iraq-run-Isis-escaping.html

they made their bed let them lie on it.

by Guest Wed May 13, 2015 10:17 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Nemesis wrote:

Nobody said it was a race, Victor went off about whites, being too ignorant to realise Arabs who commit many bombings are Caucasian and white

He realised his stupidity and then fell into making an even bigger fuck up on Non_Muslims blowing people up

Hence he should know when he is out of his depth!

its been about everything but what it really is about Muslim terorrists, it is never about Muslim terrorists because it is never allowed to be about Muslim terrorists, it has to be about certain extremists, grooming, peado's., poor upbringing, a one off, misunderstanding anything but about the Muslim terrorists...

No this has been about some naive girls who were vulnerable who were groomed to join Isis and then fled in terror at their mistake, of which you wish them to further pay for this mistake

And Jesus said " Oi fuck off you girls, you are only children, you are fucked for the bad choice you made and you will be damned for it"

by Guest Wed May 13, 2015 10:21 pm

Nemesis wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

its been about everything but what it really is about Muslim terorrists, it is never about Muslim terrorists because it is never allowed to be about Muslim terrorists, it has to be about certain extremists, grooming, peado's., poor upbringing, a one off, misunderstanding anything but about the Muslim terrorists...

No this has been about some naive girls who were vulnerable who were groomed to join Isis and then fled in terror at their mistake, of which you wish them to further pay for this mistake

And Jesus said " Oi fuck off you girls, you are only children, you are fucked for the bad choice you made and you will be damned for it"

children mohammed was bedding an 8 year old...

they stole themselves away from family and this country, got themselves to another country and a terrorist group called Isis, they then escaped from this terrorist group, famous for its ferocity and mad control and just want to come back to britain, none of this says naive, it says carefuly planned...

by Guest Wed May 13, 2015 10:23 pm

were the IRA

"alienated teenagers"? nope so irrelevant
in fact .....

were ANY of them "alienated teenagers"

nope ...so irrelevant

YOU are the one going on about how these folks are alienated

now the IRA...what was it all about?

was it a religious war

was it an old never settled war (considering how long it had been going on i recon this comes close...though it doesnt answer why?)

but the reasons were NOT the same as the issues around the Muslim issues

nor are any of the other so called examples...

granted thay are good examples of mon Muslim violence ..that i dont dispute

but I dispute their relevance or similarity....

so go on didge

why dont we see large numbers of kids from other groups being radicalised???
I mean its not like we are short of any number of disenfranchised /dissilusioned youth????

by Tommy Monk Wed May 13, 2015 10:25 pm

It's not cowardly to stand up against allowing terrorists into our country...

It is common sense to refuse entry to terrorists and The primary duty of our govt to protect the people they serve.

by Guest Wed May 13, 2015 10:29 pm

darknessss wrote:were the IRA
"alienated teenagers"? nope so irrelevant
in fact .....

were ANY of them "alienated teenagers"

nope ...so irrelevant

YOU are the one going on about how these folks are alienated

now the IRA...what was it all about?

was it a religious war

was it an old never settled war (considering how long it had been going on i recon this comes close...though it doesnt answer why?)

but the reasons were NOT the same as the issues around the Muslim issues

nor are any of the other so called examples...

granted thay are good examples of mon Muslim violence ..that i dont dispute

but I dispute their relevance or similarity....

so go on didge

why dont we see large numbers of kids from other groups being radicalised???
I mean its not like we are short of any number of disenfranchised /dissilusioned youth????

That really shows how little you know about the IRA

Were many alienated teenagers

That really shows what a thick fuck you are on history

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/children/brocklehurst/brocklehurst99.htm

You are of course talking nonsense on something that directly effected my family in Ireland, so best you pipe down boy, on something you know very little about

So you last two views previously were shown to be utterly idiotic on the white point, to then non-Muslims, to now knowing bugger all about Northern Ireland, or how I saw the same bullshit discrimination to the Irish I witnessed first hand myself growing up in this country to what the Muslims face today, and from brainless idiots like yourself

by Guest Wed May 13, 2015 10:31 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
It's not cowardly to stand up against allowing terrorists into our country...

It is common sense to refuse entry to terrorists and The primary duty of our govt to protect the people they serve.

spot on how long were the grooming gangs going on and they daren't make it public knowledge in case it upset some others of the same group, the first thought of the govt. should have been to protect those girls.

by eddie Wed May 13, 2015 10:36 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:I can't believe you guys are so terrified of teenage girls. That's pathetic.

Ben. Teenagers have killed people. Does age have anything to do with how much we should be scared of someone?
That's a daft comment to make!

As to the op, let them back in but put them on a tag and a curfew. In other words, keep a eye on them.

by Ben Reilly Wed May 13, 2015 10:38 pm

eddie wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:I can't believe you guys are so terrified of teenage girls. That's pathetic.

Ben. Teenagers have killed people. Does age have anything to do with how much we should be scared of someone?
That's a daft comment to make!

As to the op, let them back in but put them on a tag and a curfew. In other words, keep a eye on them.

Oh my God, a reasonable response. One that acknowledges the possibility of a threat but doesn't assume it.

don't let them back in the country!!! - Page 6 919144451

don't let them back in the country!!! - Page 6 919144451

by Guest Wed May 13, 2015 10:38 pm

Nemesis wrote:
darknessss wrote:were the IRA
"alienated teenagers"? nope so irrelevant
in fact .....

were ANY of them "alienated teenagers"

nope ...so irrelevant

YOU are the one going on about how these folks are alienated

now the IRA...what was it all about?

was it a religious war

was it an old never settled war (considering how long it had been going on i recon this comes close...though it doesnt answer why?)

but the reasons were NOT the same as the issues around the Muslim issues

nor are any of the other so called examples...

granted thay are good examples of mon Muslim violence ..that i dont dispute

but I dispute their relevance or similarity....

so go on didge

why dont we see large numbers of kids from other groups being radicalised???
I mean its not like we are short of any number of disenfranchised /dissilusioned youth????

That really shows how little you know about the IRA

Were many alienated teenagers

That really shows what a thick fuck you are on history

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/children/brocklehurst/brocklehurst99.htm

You are of course talking nonsense on something that directly effected my family in Ireland, so best you pipe down boy, on something you know very little about

So you last two views previously were shown to be utterly idiotic on the white point, to then non-Muslims, to now knowing bugger all about Northern Ireland, or how I saw the same bullshit discrimination to the Irish I witnessed first hand myself growing up in this country to what the Muslims face today, and from brainless idiots like yourself

wouldnt know about the irish being discriminated against...I spent half the 70's and 80's pissed in the local "irish" club....

and on one point at least you are right

I STILL to this day am not quite sure just what the hell it was all about..... and I'm not conviced that many of the protagonists were too sure either don't let them back in the country!!! - Page 6 2190311264

don't let them back in the country!!! - Page 6 2190311264

by Guest Wed May 13, 2015 10:39 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Nemesis wrote:

No this has been about some naive girls who were vulnerable who were groomed to join Isis and then fled in terror at their mistake, of which you wish them to further pay for this mistake

And Jesus said " Oi fuck off you girls, you are only children, you are fucked for the bad choice you made and you will be damned for it"

children mohammed was bedding an 8 year old...

they stole themselves away from family and this country, got themselves to another country and a terrorist group called Isis, they then escaped from this terrorist group, famous for its ferocity and mad control and just want to come back to britain, none of this says naive, it says carefuly planned...

Brainless, we have no idea of his age, the problem rightly is some believe he did marry young and this is something Muslims need to resolve because the hadiths clearly conflict over the age. This a major problem I have pointed out before, but again these are naive girls who were vulnerable who were groomed to join Isis and then fled in terror at their mistake, of which you wish them to further pay for this mistake
It shows you have not got a clue and wish people to pay dearly for the mistakes they make.
So lets apply this, if a girl to you goes with a groomer its her fault
If a woman goes with a man she knows to be violent and is too afraid to get out of, to you, its her fault.
You fail to grasp much in life and just look to shit your pants at 3 young girls, who have no idea about and assume they are terrorists and wish to cast them as terrorists.
Everything you post is very much short sighted and as seen when we apply your logic it places blame on many people for where they have been naive

Yes we have a problem with radicalization and terrorism, but you wish to cast all with suspicion and in doing so are actually pushing more into the vulnerable situation of being radicalized by your isolation of them.

You really lack much common sense and your views are driven by hate, not love which is what most people would expect from a Christian

Odd

laters

by Guest Wed May 13, 2015 10:40 pm

darknessss wrote:
Nemesis wrote:

That really shows how little you know about the IRA

Were many alienated teenagers

That really shows what a thick fuck you are on history

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/children/brocklehurst/brocklehurst99.htm

You are of course talking nonsense on something that directly effected my family in Ireland, so best you pipe down boy, on something you know very little about

So you last two views previously were shown to be utterly idiotic on the white point, to then non-Muslims, to now knowing bugger all about Northern Ireland, or how I saw the same bullshit discrimination to the Irish I witnessed first hand myself growing up in this country to what the Muslims face today, and from brainless idiots like yourself

wouldnt know about the irish being discriminated against...I spent half the 70's and 80's pissed in the local "irish" club....

and on one point at least you are right

I STILL to this day am not quite sure just what the hell it was all about..... and I'm not conviced that many of the protagonists were too sure either

Well being half Irish I would..and lost loved ones to that senseless violence and hate

Good night Victor and all the best

by eddie Wed May 13, 2015 10:40 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
eddie wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:I can't believe you guys are so terrified of teenage girls. That's pathetic.

Ben. Teenagers have killed people. Does age have anything to do with how much we should be scared of someone?
That's a daft comment to make!

As to the op, let them back in but put them on a tag and a curfew. In other words, keep a eye on them.

Oh my God, a reasonable response. One that acknowledges the possibility of a threat but doesn't assume it.

Well I am sensible Cool

by Guest Wed May 13, 2015 10:42 pm

but thanks for posting that link...interesting reading....i mean I knew the whole thing was around old grieviences

but not exactly what

dont forget

whilst you and yours suffered grieviously.....i wasnt in any way affected as such ...and so in the nature of things it was really all rather remote to me....

by Guest Wed May 13, 2015 10:49 pm

darknessss wrote:but thanks for posting that link...interesting reading....i mean I knew the whole thing was around old grieviences

but not exactly what

dont forget

whilst you and yours suffered grieviously.....i wasnt in any way affected as such ...and so in the nature of things it was really all rather remote to me....

Understood, but I saw discrimination here to the Irish families I grew up with and how they were viewed with suspicion when I was young. Hence I can see from this side what it feels like. I hated the IRA and the Loyalist Paramilitaries for the senseless violence

Night and you know everything said is in jest, we love our bouts mate

All the best

by Tommy Monk Wed May 13, 2015 11:04 pm

These girls are not viewed with slight suspicion because they just happen to be Muslim... the are viewed as terrorists because they have been actively involved in willingly travelling to join The terrorist ISIS Islamist terrorists who They knew full well to be barbaric murdering bastards!!!

They knew full well what they were going to join up with and I now view them as exactly the same terrorists as those they so freely and willingly chose to join up with!!!

I have no care or sympathy for them...

And neither does any other sane person!

by eddie Wed May 13, 2015 11:08 pm

Matt haven't they said they made a mistake?

They are just children and probably stuoid and naive

As I've said. Curfew and tag? Keep,an eye on them definitely

by Guest Wed May 13, 2015 11:19 pm

but still no-one from the left has even tried to answer my point

I've had a load of waffle and irrelevant (to my question) stuff

The left here want to give 16 YO's the vote

yet when this happens
its
ohhh poor things they are only children

so would someone...anyone from the left PLEASE get your two halves of duality together and tell me which it is

EITHER they are adults and as such are entitled to vote (and are thus subject to exactly the same judgements and punishments as would be handed out to a cognizant adult)

OR they are mere children (and as such are NOT entitled to the benefit of being able to vote)

no ifs ...no buts

one OR the other.....

by Ben Reilly Wed May 13, 2015 11:22 pm

darknessss wrote:but still no-one from the left has even tried to answer my point

I've had a load of waffle and irrelevant (to my question) stuff

The left here want to give 16 YO's the vote

yet when this happens
its
ohhh poor things they are only children

so would someone...anyone from the left PLEASE get your two halves of duality together and tell me which it is

EITHER they are adults and as such are entitled to vote (and are thus subject to exactly the same judgements and punishments as would be handed out to a cognizant adult)

OR they are mere children (and as such are NOT entitled to the benefit of being able to vote)

no ifs ...no buts

one OR the other.....

Why do you insist on being a simpleton about this? You yourself said there are plenty 18 and up who probably shouldn't be allowed near a ballot box.

Some people are smart and responsible, other people are dumb and make huge mistakes ... most people are sometimes smart and responsible and occasionally make huge, dumb mistakes ... and there is no age where you're one or the other.

by Ben Reilly Wed May 13, 2015 11:23 pm

In other words, you can't judge all UK teens by these three or by the three brightest, either.

by Ben Reilly Wed May 13, 2015 11:26 pm

In other other words, your question is, "Are all 16-year-olds responsible or are all 16-year-olds irresponsible?" It's a nonsensical question.

by Tommy Monk Wed May 13, 2015 11:29 pm

It's more than just a silly mistake Eddie... they have willingly joined a known barbaric and brutal, murdering Islamic terrorist regime...

They were not stupid... they were grade a students and enacted a cold and calculated plan to achieve their goal.

They are now the same terrorists that They knowingly and willingly chose affiliation to.

When one of these returning shit bags blows up a load of innocent men, women and children in a shopping centre or bus or train or somewhere... then that truly will be 'our' fault...

Our security services have scarce enough man power and resources as it is keeping tabs on SUSPECTED terrorists and sympathisers here in our country... we should not be allowing KNOWN TERRORISTS AND SYMPATHISERS back into our country to add to The risks to The public and work load to The security services.

I don't think I am being unreasonable or harsh... just sensible...

by Guest Wed May 13, 2015 11:31 pm

yeah but how obtuse do you have to be to not get the point???

even IF some of those 18+ yo are not fit to vote...they are still judged to be ADULT and as such have the rights pertaining to adulthood and consequently the responsibilities of adulthood and suffer the penaties of failure to act as responsible adults

THAT is the point

either these are children and thus held to a lower standard of responsibility (and are afforded greater protection )
and thereby cannot be allowed to vote (becasue they are NOT responsible)

or they are responsible enough to vote (and are thus adults an thereby have all the other rights AND responsibilities )

you cant have it both ways.....

by Ben Reilly Wed May 13, 2015 11:36 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:It's more than just a silly mistake Eddie... they have willingly joined a known barbaric and brutal, murdering Islamic terrorist regime...

They were not stupid... they were grade a students and enacted a cold and calculated plan to achieve their goal.

They are now the same terrorists that They knowingly and willingly chose affiliation to.

When one of these returning shit bags blows up a load of innocent men, women and children in a shopping centre or bus or train or somewhere... then that truly will be 'our' fault...

Our security services have scarce enough man power and resources as it is keeping tabs on SUSPECTED terrorists and sympathisers here in our country... we should not be allowing KNOWN TERRORISTS AND SYMPATHISERS back into our country to add to The risks to The public and work load to The security services.

I don't think I am being unreasonable or harsh... just sensible...

I think the same mentality you're showing here is what drives ISIS, to be honest.

by Tommy Monk Wed May 13, 2015 11:58 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
darknessss wrote:but still no-one from the left has even tried to answer my point

I've had a load of waffle and irrelevant (to my question) stuff

The left here want to give 16 YO's the vote

yet when this happens
its
ohhh poor things they are only children

so would someone...anyone from the left PLEASE get your two halves of duality together and tell me which it is

EITHER they are adults and as such are entitled to vote (and are thus subject to exactly the same judgements and punishments as would be handed out to a cognizant adult)

OR they are mere children (and as such are NOT entitled to the benefit of being able to vote)

no ifs ...no buts

one OR the other.....

Why do you insist on being a simpleton about this? You yourself said there are plenty 18 and up who probably shouldn't be allowed near a ballot box.

Some people are smart and responsible, other people are dumb and make huge mistakes ... most people are sometimes smart and responsible and occasionally make huge, dumb mistakes ... and there is no age where you're one or the other.

Darkness's own personal opinion on some 18 yrs and older people maybe not being sensible enough to vote is his own personal opinion and irrelevant... he is not advocating a change in The voting age... it is our lefties who are favouring the lowering of age to 16 as they claim that at this age all are adult enough and responsible enough etc...

But the same lefties are now arguing that these 3 young women, all grade a students and all of above average intelligence, are now only silly young children not adult enough, responsible enough etc...

But furthermore, you are opening the door for anyone of any age to avoid responsibility for any of their decision actions or crimes through the defense of having been a bit stupid and just making a mistake...

Criminal responsibility here in England is 10 years old... and by that age, the difference between right and wrong is already well known.

These girls knew full well what they were doing, who ISIS were, what they were, and that They were a brutal and barbaric murderous regime of Islamist terrorists.

They made their own free choice to go and join these terrorists, following a difficult and carefully planned journey to achieve their aims.

This is not in any way a silly childish mistake like forgetting some homework or leaving the fridge door open etc...

They are terrorists, pure and simple... let them rot!

by Tommy Monk Thu May 14, 2015 12:06 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:It's more than just a silly mistake Eddie... they have willingly joined a known barbaric and brutal, murdering Islamic terrorist regime...

They were not stupid... they were grade a students and enacted a cold and calculated plan to achieve their goal.

They are now the same terrorists that They knowingly and willingly chose affiliation to.

When one of these returning shit bags blows up a load of innocent men, women and children in a shopping centre or bus or train or somewhere... then that truly will be 'our' fault...

Our security services have scarce enough man power and resources as it is keeping tabs on SUSPECTED terrorists and sympathisers here in our country... we should not be allowing KNOWN TERRORISTS AND SYMPATHISERS back into our country to add to The risks to The public and work load to The security services.

I don't think I am being unreasonable or harsh... just sensible...

I think the same mentality you're showing here is what drives ISIS, to be honest.

Typical leftie bullshit...

How can you say that someone against terrorism and against allowing terrorists entry to our country is The same as The terrorists...!!!???

You are mental!!!

Just like you try to say a supporter of freedom and democracy, The right to self govt and self rule is a Nazi!!!

Your leftie thought processes are fucked up!!!

lol!

by Irn Bru Thu May 14, 2015 12:56 am

Of course they should be allowed back in the country. And if it is true that these girls have escaped the clutches of ISIS because they saw them for the evil people that they are then they may be an asset in educating other young people who may be thinking of doing what they did.
We need to hear their story and judge whilst keeping a watching brief on their activities.

by Guest Thu May 14, 2015 12:57 am

Irn Bru wrote:Of course they should be allowed back in the country. And if it is true that these girls have escaped the clutches of ISIS because they saw them for the evil people that they are then they may be an asset in educating other young people who may be thinking of doing what they did.
We need to hear their story and judge whilst keeping a watching brief on their activities.

100% spot on!

by Guest Thu May 14, 2015 1:03 am

and my point???

is dodged by all.......

by Irn Bru Thu May 14, 2015 1:12 am

darknessss wrote:and my point???

is dodged by all.......

Which was (briefly)?

by Guest Thu May 14, 2015 1:17 am

funny man...... Rolling Eyes

by Irn Bru Thu May 14, 2015 1:22 am

darknessss wrote:funny man......

It's half a dozen pages Victor so it's not unreasonable to ask what was your point without me having to trawl through them all.

by Guest Thu May 14, 2015 1:29 am

ok... the left...in the form of labour consider that 16yo should have the vote

now you have to be adult to vote....
clearly only adults can be allowed to vote for a number of reasons...
also as a voter you are (being an adult) subject to the rights and responsibilities of adult hood (and also the penalties for failure to adhere to those responsibilities

so in that case

why are the left now crying that these are just "children"

either they are children (and thus not subject to the same degree of responsibility ) and therefore should NOT be allowed to vote

OR they are mature enough to vote (and thus subject to the same harshness of law, since they are NOT children)

you cannot have it both ways....

by Guest Thu May 14, 2015 5:33 am

Tommy Monk wrote:It's more than just a silly mistake Eddie... they have willingly joined a known barbaric and brutal, murdering Islamic terrorist regime... They were not stupid... they were grade a students and enacted a cold and calculated plan to achieve their goal. They are now the same terrorists that They knowingly and willingly chose affiliation to. When one of these returning shit bags blows up a load of innocent men, women and children in a shopping centre or bus or train or somewhere... then that truly will be 'our' fault...Our security services have scarce enough man power and resources as it is keeping tabs on SUSPECTED terrorists and sympathisers here in our country... we should not be allowing KNOWN TERRORISTS AND SYMPATHISERS back into our country to add to The risks to The public and work load to The security services.
I don't think I am being unreasonable or harsh... just sensible...

No they are not known terrorists, which shows you do not even know what a terrorist is, as what terrorist act did they commit?
How many as well that returned from the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq who did actually fight with the Taliban and the insurgents in Iraq have committed terrorist acts in the West let alone the UK? In fact we have had many return, so you should be able to post countless examples?
In this case all we have here is 3 young naive vulnerable girls that were lured and groomed to join ISIS with indoctrination, which only makes them terrorist sympathizers if we are to believe your assumptions, of which they are just that assumptions

Which leads back to my other points below:

1) You believe they are actually terrorists coming back to commit an act of terror based on nothing more than an assumption.

2) They were groomed as vulnerable young girls, of which does happen, of which they can be many reasons they reach out to something that makes them part of something which until now they have never felt accepted.

3) If they are terrorists, what are they capable of being as they have had little time to make bombs which takes years of experience and to even handle guns, of which takes training. What is left then, a knife or someone making a bomb for them, which they have more chance of blowing themselves up of which does happen to inexperienced suicide bombers.

4) Now clearly either they have fled and want to come back or we believe like you they are a threat. Then they would be placed into the deradicalization programs and would be monitored. They are not going to leave someone they still perceive as a threat onto society, without keeping tabs on them. What clearly is the best option is deradicalization and even to turn such people to help prevent others from falling to this grooming methods.

The point is what you have first have to learn and understand is how there is vulnerable girls out there who are Muslim that do not feel they are fitting into society of which this society is not helping in how I explained to you last night because they are not being seen as British and viewed with suspicion. This are an easy target for the ISIS brigade to make them feel they are welcomed into a society from one that they are feeling alien in. The fact is we should be looking out for all young girls that are vulnerable and parents also have a part to play here.

by Guest Thu May 14, 2015 6:04 am

darknessss wrote:ok... the left...in the form of labour consider that 16yo should have the vote
now you have to be adult to vote....
clearly only adults can be allowed to vote for a number of reasons...
also as a voter you are (being an adult) subject to the rights and responsibilities of adult hood (and also the penalties for failure to adhere to those responsibilities
so in that case
why are the left now crying that these are just "children"
either they are children (and thus not subject to the same degree of responsibility ) and therefore should NOT be allowed to vote
OR they are mature enough to vote (and thus subject to the same harshness of law, since they are NOT children)
you cannot have it both ways....

I have answered this already

What I need to understand from you is if you apply the same methodology of what you claim to knowingly go into something which in this case they are children.

So why are some women drawn to abusive me?
Do you blame them for this?
The same with men drawn to abusive women?
Do you blame them for this?

You see this is a very important factor here which sadly and in this example women fall prey to, let alone where you still fail to grasp how many people are pushing Muslims into an all Muslim identity because of the 9/11? What Muslims were not integrating before 9/11? Since the terrorist act that killed thousands, Muslims have seen been seen and viewed with being non-compatible with western society and yet never were before this atrocity. It is society which as shown where people push an isolate a group due to acts committed by some of that group, of which a prime example I showed to you earlier was the Irish, when the IRA was at its height. Irish terrorists also lived amongst us back then as well and were a major issue of which Irish of which I experienced were being pushed away from having any identity with this country. You fil to see how the acts of a substantial part of this nation can alienate groups like it did with the Irish and now how it does with Muslims. You are thus in fact creating far more Muslims vulnerable to turn be radicalized into terrorism, because they are being denied an identity here, which is replicated throughout Europe for example. The Israeli's do not have the same problem with Israeli Arabs, because they do not treat them with the same suspicion, which should be a good example of where providing an identity and making a people a part of a nation denies and decreases the chances of people being isolated in a society and drawn to terrorism. Where they screw up is in the settlements and Jerusalem, which leads to the opposite effect. So we by are very actions and who we view a group are in fact increasing the chances of Muslims drawn to extremism, where being denied an identity of which many do leaves them with the only other identities they know, their former ethnicity or what makes a major part of their lie, religion.

So lets return to what I was saying about those drawn to domestic violence:

However, like any women who has been attracted to an abusive man will know; how they first appear is completely different to who they later become. This is like any other kind of trap that is used to entice someone or something. It has to be appealing and gratifying or it wouldn’t work. And although this man could come across as being a certain way, there is going to many ways that this comes across. It could be that the man is: confident, self assured, funny, supportive, charming, kind or intelligent and many other ways. Together these traits can be powerful, but just one of these traits can be enough to attract a women.

http://www.transformationalwriting.co.uk/blog/relationships-why-are-some-women-attracted-to-abusive-men

Women are attracted to abusive men and one problem many parents actually fear is their child being drawn to the bad boy image, what we have here is the ultimate bad boy image that of ISIS extremists. Its no good thinking they should see how evil these people are, they do not because these same evil people convince them that what they are doing is right and back by religious text. They manipulate girls already not fitting in with society, of which this society is creating, or their parents help create, but what you fail to see is how they are manipulated by some men and the tactics they use:

Shamima Begum, Amira Abase and Kadiza Sultana were just like me: young, Muslim students from east London. They were part of my community, but sadly they were led astray by people with no morals. They fell prey to a form of virus spreading through the internet, brainwashing young women and men in the name of religion, directed by a bunch of radicals working in the human resources department for Isis. They lure young women with talk of companionship and heaven, a promise that makes me wonder if they really know much about their religion: when did killing innocent beings ever get anyone into heaven?
UK police launch hunt for London schoolgirls feared to have fled to Syria It’s either ignorance at its finest or just utter evil, I can’t decide. But what I am sure of is that they’re twisting and bombarding teenage girls in my community with Isis propaganda – distributed via state-of-the-art Silicon Valley software, while railing against westernisation. They advertise Syria like Disneyland, offering teenagers a chance to be “princesses” of the Islamic state, promising love and fun, leaving the victims with two choices: a plane ride to Syria and heaven, or the western world and hell.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/24/Muslim-girls-isis-teenage-east-london

This phenomenon is widespread and not confined to fanatic Islam. Women and girls throughout history have been fatally attracted to fascists, communists, revolutionary armies and serial killers. Sometimes it is the cause that consumes them. I have just returned from Vietnam where, during the many wars that have beset that lovely country, beautiful, innocent young girls volunteered to fight with guerrilla forces and to die. In Cuba, similarly, teenage girls rushed to join the resistance armies. Much is made of their “beautiful sacrifice”. But did they even understand what they were signing up to? In her book, Women and Guerrilla Movements (2002), Karen Kampwirth suggests that some of the youthful volunteers “want to escape the tedium of their homes, to join another sort of family, start life anew”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-jihadi-girls-are-just-part-of-a-long-line-attracted-to-mad-bad-men-10062909.html

If you understand anything about attraction and how people manipulate others, then any views made by people here about claiming these girls who were groomed and manipulated by ISIS, as to being terrorists, fails to understand anything about vulnerability, alienation, manipulation, attraction and grooming.

So going back to my point, is it tough to you, when women fall for bad men?

Are people manipulated out of money their own fault?

Those who enter a marriage thinking it is out of love, to only be used and manipulated for their money?

Girls and men that have been manipulated into relationships by those who commit domestic violence?

Does anyone here blame any of these people?

If you do blame any of these I just mentioned I would like to hear your reasons why?

If you do not blame any of these I mentioned here, please explain also why?

by Raggamuffin Thu May 14, 2015 7:55 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Still conflating totally separate issues I see dodge...

These girls knew exactly what they were doing and made their own intelligent and informed choice to travel thousands of miles to join a bunch of bloodthirsty barbaric terrorists.

They were not the victims here, in fact others were more likely victims of them and their chosen gang of brutal Islamic terrorists.

We do not want their kind here in The UK posing a danger to our citizens.

Dodge, you are totally outnumbered on this issue, why can't you just accept you are wrong on this?

What makes you think you are so right and everyone else wrong?

Can you not allow for the high possibility that, being so young, someone else manipulated them into running off to join ISIS in the first place?

Or has your country become so cowardly that you're actually shitting your pants over letting three teen girls in?

Wait, that second question has been emphatically answered in the affirmative all throughout this thread, never mind.

You think it's cowardly to want to protect your country against extremists, murderers, and terrorists? You think that a 16-year old girl is not capable of any of those things?

Before you embark on a lecture about how cowardly the UK is, think about your own country.

by Raggamuffin Thu May 14, 2015 7:57 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:It's more than just a silly mistake Eddie... they have willingly joined a known barbaric and brutal, murdering Islamic terrorist regime...

They were not stupid... they were grade a students and enacted a cold and calculated plan to achieve their goal.

They are now the same terrorists that They knowingly and willingly chose affiliation to.

When one of these returning shit bags blows up a load of innocent men, women and children in a shopping centre or bus or train or somewhere... then that truly will be 'our' fault...

Our security services have scarce enough man power and resources as it is keeping tabs on SUSPECTED terrorists and sympathisers here in our country... we should not be allowing KNOWN TERRORISTS AND SYMPATHISERS back into our country to add to The risks to The public and work load to The security services.

I don't think I am being unreasonable or harsh... just sensible...

I think the same mentality you're showing here is what drives ISIS, to be honest.

Oh please explain how wanting to protect your country is the same as going around beheading people.

by Raggamuffin Thu May 14, 2015 8:01 am

Irn Bru wrote:Of course they should be allowed back in the country. And if it is true that these girls have escaped the clutches of ISIS because they saw them for the evil people that they are then they may be an asset in educating other young people who may be thinking of doing what they did.
We need to hear their story and judge whilst keeping a watching brief on their activities.

You mean make them into celebrities? Perhaps we could have a new version of "I'm a celebrity ... Get me out of here".

They wouldn't need to escape the clutches of ISIS if they hadn't voluntarily gone out to join them in the first place.

by Guest Thu May 14, 2015 8:01 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

Can you not allow for the high possibility that, being so young, someone else manipulated them into running off to join ISIS in the first place?

Or has your country become so cowardly that you're actually shitting your pants over letting three teen girls in?

Wait, that second question has been emphatically answered in the affirmative all throughout this thread, never mind.

You think it's cowardly to want to protect your country against extremists, murderers, and terrorists? You think that a 16-year old girl is not capable of any of those things?

Before you embark on a lecture about how cowardly the UK is, think about your own country.

Same points to you whcih you always avoid answering:

No they are not known terrorists, which shows you do not even know what a terrorist is, as what terrorist act did they commit?
How many as well that returned from the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq who did actually fight with the Taliban and the insurgents in Iraq have committed terrorist acts in the West let alone the UK? In fact we have had many return, so you should be able to post countless examples?
In this case all we have here is 3 young naive vulnerable girls that were lured and groomed to join ISIS with indoctrination, which only makes them terrorist sympathizers if we are to believe your assumptions, of which they are just that assumptions

Which leads back to my other points below:

1) You believe they are actually terrorists coming back to commit an act of terror based on nothing more than an assumption.

2) They were groomed as vulnerable young girls, of which does happen, of which they can be many reasons they reach out to something that makes them part of something which until now they have never felt accepted.

3) If they are terrorists, what are they capable of being as they have had little time to make bombs which takes years of experience and to even handle guns, of which takes training. What is left then, a knife or someone making a bomb for them, which they have more chance of blowing themselves up of which does happen to inexperienced suicide bombers.

4) Now clearly either they have fled and want to come back or we believe like you they are a threat. Then they would be placed into the deradicalization programs and would be monitored. They are not going to leave someone they still perceive as a threat onto society, without keeping tabs on them. What clearly is the best option is deradicalization and even to turn such people to help prevent others from falling to this grooming methods.

The point is what you have first have to learn and understand is how there is vulnerable girls out there who are Muslim that do not feel they are fitting into society of which this society is not helping in how I explained to you last night because they are not being seen as British and viewed with suspicion. This are an easy target for the ISIS brigade to make them feel they are welcomed into a society from one that they are feeling alien in. The fact is we should be looking out for all young girls that are vulnerable and parents also have a part to play here.

by eddie Thu May 14, 2015 8:05 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:In other words, you can't judge all UK teens by these three or by the three brightest, either.

I'm not bragging here, but my nearly 14 year old son is very knowledge about politics (his own research, debate with us parents, school, love of history etc etc) so by the time he's 18 he will be a valid voter IMO

So at 16, he'd probably be ok too.

So I agree Ben, you can't judge someone purely by age ALTHOUGH I did read somewhere that a person's decision-making tool thingy in their brain isn't fully developed until the age of 21?

by eddie Thu May 14, 2015 8:10 am

As for the OP
They saw the error of what they had done, and I see your point Matt, but I think you're not allowing an inch to budge tbh

They are 16, they saw the error and evil of what they'd done, so as long as they and their parents, agree to the girls being tagged and curfewed and yes (as someone said) used in a good way to educate other idiots thinking of joining ISIS then surely that's a fair and rational and helpful compromise?

by Guest Thu May 14, 2015 8:12 am

eddie wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:In other words, you can't judge all UK teens by these three or by the three brightest, either.

I'm not bragging here, but my nearly 14 year old son is very knowledge about politics (his own research, debate with us parents, school, love of history etc etc) so by the time he's 18 he will be a valid voter IMO

So at 16, he'd probably be ok too.

So I agree Ben, you can't judge someone purely by age ALTHOUGH I did read somewhere that a person's decision-making tool thingy in their brain isn't fully developed until the age of 21?

Morning Eddie

Mid-20's it seems.

According to recent findings, the human brain does not reach full maturity until at least the mid-20s. (See J. Giedd in References.) The specific changes that follow young adulthood are not yet well studied, but it is known that they involve increased myelination and continued adding and pruning of neurons. As a number of researchers have put it, "the rental car companies have it right." The brain isn't fully mature at 16, when we are allowed to drive, or at 18, when we are allowed to vote, or at 21, when we are allowed to drink, but closer to 25, when we are allowed to rent a car.

http://hrweb.mit.edu/worklife/youngadult/brain.html

by Raggamuffin Thu May 14, 2015 8:34 am

eddie wrote:As for the OP
They saw the error of what they had done, and I see your point Matt, but I think you're not allowing an inch to budge tbh

They are 16, they saw the error and evil of what they'd done, so as long as they and their parents, agree to the girls being tagged and curfewed and yes (as someone said) used in a good way to educate other idiots thinking of joining ISIS then surely that's a fair and rational and helpful compromise?

Nobody has said they have seen the evil of what they've done. If the story is true, maybe they're bored with not having many shoe shops to go in, or maybe they don't like the weather.

I think they would also need to be banned from using the internet. That means their family can't have the internet either, but hey ...

by Guest Thu May 14, 2015 8:36 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:As for the OP
They saw the error of what they had done, and I see your point Matt, but I think you're not allowing an inch to budge tbh

They are 16, they saw the error and evil of what they'd done, so as long as they and their parents, agree to the girls being tagged and curfewed and yes (as someone said) used in a good way to educate other idiots thinking of joining ISIS then surely that's a fair and rational and helpful compromise?

Nobody has said they have seen the evil of what they've done. If the story is true, maybe they're bored with not having many shoe shops to go in, or maybe they don't like the weather.

I think they would also need to be banned from using the internet. That means their family can't have the internet either, but hey ...

Has is banning them from the internet going to help them learn where they went wrong in reagrds to being groomed and manipulated?

That is just now making the facility to commuicate as being the main problem, not actually addressing how they have been manipulated like many young girls are with a bad boy image.

by Ben Reilly Thu May 14, 2015 8:40 am

A lot of people are afraid of what people will do with access to more information Smile

by Guest Thu May 14, 2015 8:44 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:A lot of people are afraid of what people will do with access to more information

by Guest Thu May 14, 2015 11:12 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:I can't believe you guys are so terrified of teenage girls. That's pathetic.

would America take them back and put them on the naughty step or would they get life in prison without parole ?

by Guest Thu May 14, 2015 11:13 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
darknessss wrote:or could the REAL answer be that they are from that certain religion the left worship and protect no matter what???
i'm going with this answer....

me too

by Raggamuffin Thu May 14, 2015 11:24 am

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:I can't believe you guys are so terrified of teenage girls. That's pathetic.

would America take them back and put them on the naughty step or would they get life in prison without parole ?

The Americans don't like that sort of thing either.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-colorado-woman-aimed-to-go-to-syria-for-jihad/

by Guest Thu May 14, 2015 12:27 pm

darknessss wrote:in which case didge..if you dont like the answers ...........
actually you dont like someone disagreeing with you since you think you know it all and actually know fuck all...especially about me....

if I'm wasteing your time...I suggest you piss off somewhere else....where no doubt you will end up being caned just as much....

love it

by Guest Thu May 14, 2015 12:42 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:I can't believe you guys are so terrified of teenage girls. That's pathetic.

would America take them back and put them on the naughty step or would they get life in prison without parole ?

Would you take in one that had fled and on route converted to Christianity?

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