God's Mentality

by stardesk Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:05 pm

First topic message reminder :

GOD’S MENTALITY

I cannot help but wonder what kind of mentality has God. When you spend money, time, and effort to make or create something, would you then allow something else to come along and demolish your creation? Would you stand back and watch as it’s being destroyed? Of course not, and yet this is exactly what God did, (assuming he exists, of course.) Having apparently created the Earth either he didn’t care or was helpless, whilst asteroids, ice-ages, volcanoes, earthquakes, and tsunamis, destroyed much of his creation. Was he responsible for the negative disasters that struck the planet? Did he create them on purpose to destroy a mistake? If so, then he is not the omnipotent, infallible, and loving father we are led to believe.

Moving on, he supposedly created all the animals and birds etc, and yet what do we find? Timid animals such as a Gazelle or Impala, being pounced on by lions and leopards, tearing at their throats and neck. Can you imagine the sheer terror and fear those timid creatures must have felt? Just one example of bird predation, during the mating season when Black Headed gulls have young in the nest, you will see Herring Gulls bomb down on the nest and grab the young, fly off with them and eat them.

I put these facts to a Jehovah’s Witness at my door, he quite seriously replied: ‘Oh, that’s all Satan’s fault.’ Need I say I had a good laugh at such ignorance. Poor old Satan, he’s been accused of just about every negative issue that exists on planet Earth. And yet, all he did was encourage Adam and Eve to become aware of themselves as self-aware, free-thinking individuals, with the ability to make decisions for themselves. Had that not have happened then they would have been no more than pets, subservient to God, running at his beck and call. I’m sitting here typing away on my laptop, the product of a free thinking, enquiring, inventive mind. Had Adam and Eve not awaken to future potential, we’d still be wandering around naked, rummaging and foraging for food in the wilds.

by veya_victaous Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:51 am

smelly_bandit wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

So parting a fucking sea and rescuing the Israelites from from certain death at the hands of the Egyptians doesn't count as intervention?

What am I missing here?

uh

Moses parted the red sea and the Israelites used their own feet to walk out of Egypt

youre really clutching at straws here

how did Moses? he asked god and god did it.
who sent the plagues to Egypt or did Moses make it rain frogs too Suspect

by veya_victaous Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:55 am

Some light reading for you Smelly

BIBLE wrote:Matthew 19:26 ESV / 84 helpful votes

But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Luke 1:37 ESV / 63 helpful votes

For nothing will be impossible with God.”

Jeremiah 32:27 ESV / 56 helpful votes

“Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me?

Psalm 147:5 ESV / 50 helpful votes

Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure.

Isaiah 40:28 ESV / 47 helpful votes

Have you not known? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable.

Job 42:2 ESV / 44 helpful votes

“I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.

Mark 10:27 ESV / 23 helpful votes

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.”

Romans 1:20 ESV / 20 helpful votes

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Hebrews 1:3 ESV / 18 helpful votes

He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Isaiah 44:24 ESV / 16 helpful votes

Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,

Revelation 19:6 ESV / 12 helpful votes

Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the roar of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, crying out, “Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns.

Ephesians 1:19-22 ESV / 12 helpful votes

And what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,

Daniel 2:20-22 ESV / 12 helpful votes

Daniel answered and said: “Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, to whom belong wisdom and might. He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding; he reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what is in the darkness, and the light dwells with him.

1 Corinthians 1:25 ESV / 11 helpful votes

For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Mark 14:36 ESV / 11 helpful votes

And he said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Remove this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

Job 37:23 ESV / 11 helpful votes

The Almighty—we cannot find him; he is great in power; justice and abundant righteousness he will not violate.

Romans 8:28-29 ESV / 10 helpful votes

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Amos 4:13 ESV / 10 helpful votes

For behold, he who forms the mountains and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought, who makes the morning darkness, and treads on the heights of the earth— the Lord, the God of hosts, is his name!

Jeremiah 10:12 ESV / 10 helpful votes

It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.

Daniel 4:35 ESV / 9 helpful votes

All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?”

Exodus 35:1-35 ESV / 8 helpful votes

Moses assembled all the congregation of the people of Israel and said to them, “These are the things that the Lord has commanded you to do. Six days work shall be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire in all your dwelling places on the Sabbath day.” Moses said to all the congregation of the people of Israel, “This is the thing that the Lord has commanded. Take from among you a contribution to the Lord. Whoever is of a generous heart, let him bring the Lord's contribution: gold, silver, and bronze;

Revelation 1:1-20 ESV / 7 helpful votes

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near. John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood

Philippians 4:13 ESV / 7 helpful votes

I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

Ephesians 6:10 ESV / 7 helpful votes

Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might.

Romans 15:13 ESV / 7 helpful votes

May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope.

Romans 4:17 ESV / 7 helpful votes

As it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.

John 5:1-47 ESV / 7 helpful votes

After this there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. Now there is in Jerusalem by the Sheep Gate a pool, in Aramaic called Bethesda, which has five roofed colonnades. In these lay a multitude of invalids—blind, lame, and paralyzed. One man was there who had been an invalid for thirty-eight years.

Matthew 10:29 ESV / 7 helpful votes

Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.

Amos 2:4 ESV / 7 helpful votes

Thus says the Lord: “For three transgressions of Judah, and for four, I will not revoke the punishment, because they have rejected the law of the Lord, and have not kept his statutes, but their lies have led them astray, those after which their fathers walked.

Psalm 139:1-24 ESV / 7 helpful votes

To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. O Lord, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me.

Psalm 84:11 ESV / 7 helpful votes

For the Lord God is a sun and shield; the Lord bestows favor and honor. No good thing does he withhold from those who walk uprightly.

Job 36:26 ESV / 6 helpful votes

Behold, God is great, and we know him not; the number of his years is unsearchable.

Joshua 1:18 ESV / 6 helpful votes

Whoever rebels against your commandment and disobeys your words, whatever you command him, shall be put to death. Only be strong and courageous.”

Genesis 1:30 ESV / 6 helpful votes

And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.

Genesis 1:7 ESV / 6 helpful votes

And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so.

Psalm 139:7-10 ESV / 5 helpful votes

Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there! If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me.

Genesis 1:17 ESV / 5 helpful votes

And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,

John 3:1-16:33 ESV / 4 helpful votes

Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

by Guest Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:25 pm

I think you mat be mistaking for God being able to and whether he actual does..

by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:34 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:I think you mat be mistaking for God being able to and whether he actual does..

Those stories don't say that God was able to do those things but did not do them -- they say he did them. It seems like you're being obtuse on purpose again.

by Guest Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:45 pm

@Veya I am an independant (also known as "hedge") druid. More specifically a shamanistic druid....
(druids come in a large number of flavours ::D:: )

@Veya AND Eil,
yes I did answer your question on "purpose"

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t3820p50-god-s-mentality#74122

by Guest Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:03 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:I think you mat be mistaking for God being able to and whether he actual does..

Those stories don't say that God was able to do those things but did not do them -- they say he did them. It seems like you're being obtuse on purpose again.

No i'm not, just because God has the power to do something it does not mean he has to, just because we think he should does not mean he has to, who are we to say what iss or is not right..

by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:24 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:I think you mat be mistaking for God being able to and whether he actual does..

Those stories don't say that God was able to do those things but did not do them -- they say he did them. It seems like you're being obtuse on purpose again.

No i'm not, just because God has the power to do something it does not mean he has to, just because we think he should does not mean he has to, who are we to say what iss or is not right..

Those stories don't say that God was able to do those things but did not do them -- they say he did them.

by Guest Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:32 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

No i'm not, just because God has the power to do something it does not mean he has to, just because we think he should does not mean he has to, who are we to say what iss or is not right..

Those stories don't say that God was able to do those things but did not do them -- they say he did them.

i;m getting a little lost now, God can do and not do what ever he wants, the fact that we do not understand what or why he does it makes no difference to him or anything else, I'm pretty sure if a four year old watch a man stripping a car engine it would be equally baffling, we are like children before God..

by Guest Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:20 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:I think you mat be mistaking for God being able to and whether he actual does..

There is no mistake

He knows he is onto a losing arguing so he is deliberately blurring the lines

Its ironic that the type of intervention they have been arguing involves god sticking his actual finger into things and yet their "proof" shows the exact opposite

I love atheists

by Ben Reilly Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:30 am

The two of you are saying that God set up the world and hasn't intervened since.

I'm saying that almost the entire story of the Bible is one of God's intervening into human affairs, including the Flood, coming down as Jesus and preaching to people one on one, the many miracles recorded, etc.

I don't understand how you can believe in the Bible and yet say that God hasn't intervened since creating the world. Those two points appear to be in direct contradiction of one another.

by eddie Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:33 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:Creating a global flood to wipe out almost all life? Coming to earth to live as a man?

Really, what would count as intervention if these things do not?

I don't believe in religion.
I think you've missed a big chunk of this topic.
Read back? Just a suggestion. Rolling Eyes

by eddie Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:46 am

Eilzel wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

That's very poetic Eds. But it doesn't explain why 1000s of people, including small children who haven't lived enough to truly appreciate most things, are brutally killed in natural disasters. It doesn't explain why millions of the same have to die of wasteful, painful diseases. It doesn't explain why there are parasitical insects that can burrow into living human flesh leading to slow, agonizing death.

I wont even add things like war, famine or human caused problems since you will justify those millions of deaths as 'human' caused- and so, astonishingly, nothing to with a possible 'god'.

Of course people 'must die'. And they would; from the process of aging mostly. But people dying in those natural horrors mentioned above, which are NOTHING to do with human causes, is uneconomic (from a creation pov); cruel (from a creation pov) and unfair (from a creation pov).

Of course people must die. But if they die before the age of even 5 then what have they ever lived for? And why so many evil, wicked people live wonderful lives till ripe old age on the opposite end?

IF there is a God; he or she is one cruel, sinister, twisted son of bitch

Sorry I can't contribute more at this time, but I would like a response on this from eds x

I don't have a problem with any non religious views on God, but they still miss the difficult points, so what do you think of God with these factors in my quote?

Les it's going to be an answer that will never satisfy you. Because your interpretation of God is that you expect him to be like Superman; you want him to jump in front of the car hurtling to kill,the young mother, you want him to step in and stop the famine in Ethiopia thereby preventing hundreds of children dying.....

I'm afraid I dont hold to that belief that he must prevent these things and if he doesn't, then he doesn't exist.

Tell me, what if he did stop everyone from dying? What then? Would the world be better? Would we all behave better or worse?
How do you know what fate those people had in store had they not died then, on that particular day?
How do you know, what those starved children may have grown up,to be? Rapists? An army? The destruction of their village?

All stupid a hypothesis that sounds as ridiculous as saying "if there was a god then people wouldn't die!"

How absurd!
Do you want to live forever? I don't!

Yes life is unfair. So what?
My dad died way before his "time" - so did my friends girl, she hung from her neck at two years old in a nursery and definitely died before her time.
Why did God "allow" that to happen? Why didn't he intervene? Should he intervene in all children's accidents or just some?

My answer is I don't know. I'm not sure I want him to "intervene".

In the same way your mum has no place now, really, to intervene in your life; she gave you good grounding (obviously, look at the man you've become x), she set you up on a path of goodness and honesty and she taught you how to boil the kettle (lol) and to wait for cars to go past before you step,into the road.
What more can she do? It's up to you now.

Your only argument seems to be; why does God allow.........? (fill,in the blank)

So I'm turning it around and asking you: why shouldn't he allow.........?

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:55 am

In which case Eddie, why do Christians claim a miracle when someone is 'saved'. Why not say, God doesn't intervene (when there are so many cases of him supposedly doing just that in the Bible) and it was just good luck the people survived? They can't claim miracles for some and say he doesn't intervene for others.

by eddie Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:01 am

Sassy wrote:In which case Eddie, why do Christians claim a miracle when someone is 'saved'. Why not say, God doesn't intervene (when there are so many cases of him supposedly doing just that in the Bible) and it was just good luck the people survived? They can't claim miracles for some and say he doesn't intervene for others.

No idea sas, I don't believe in religion, only people's rights to practise it.
I'm often flummoxed by bible stories myself lol x

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:05 am

From what we see in everyday life, it is people who create things, all well speaking about a God, but not to ram it up the farter of others and claim things are God's miracles as Sassy has said,,,

Yer wasting your time on the God thing folks....spend more time and enjoy it with your kids, those wee cheeky monkeys who really matter, for one day we will all be gone...

Verse 1:1 Chapter of Joy Division.

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:08 am

Oh I believe in peoples right to practice it, it just pees me off when they want it all ways. Terrible things that happen are never 'God's' fault, but anyone saved from those things are saved by God! God never carries the can for inflicting illness, but for some reason is always the one who is supposed to have 'saved' those that get better or don't die. God saved my relative they say, not 'bloody God gave my relative a nasty disease'.

by Eilzel Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:55 pm

eddie wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Sorry I can't contribute more at this time, but I would like a response on this from eds x

I don't have a problem with any non religious views on God, but they still miss the difficult points, so what do you think of God with these factors in my quote?

Les it's going to be an answer that will never satisfy you. Because your interpretation of God is that you expect him to be like Superman; you want him to jump in front of the car hurtling to kill,the young mother, you want him to step in and stop the famine in Ethiopia thereby preventing hundreds of children dying.....

I'm afraid I dont hold to that belief that he must prevent these things and if he doesn't, then he doesn't exist.

Tell me, what if he did stop everyone from dying? What then? Would the world be better? Would we all behave better or worse?
How do you know what fate those people had in store had they not died then, on that particular day?
How do you know, what those starved children may have grown up,to be? Rapists? An army? The destruction of their village?

All stupid a hypothesis that sounds as ridiculous as saying "if there was a god then people wouldn't die!"

How absurd!
Do you want to live forever? I don't!

Yes life is unfair. So what?
My dad died way before his "time" - so did my friends girl, she hung from her neck at two years old in a nursery and definitely died before her time.
Why did God "allow" that to happen? Why didn't he intervene? Should he intervene in all children's accidents or just some?

My answer is I don't know. I'm not sure I want him to "intervene".

In the same way your mum has no place now, really, to intervene in your life; she gave you good grounding (obviously, look at the man you've become x), she set you up on a path of goodness and honesty and she taught you how to boil the kettle (lol) and to wait for cars to go past before you step,into the road.
What more can she do? It's up to you now.

Your only argument seems to be; why does God allow.........? (fill,in the blank)

So I'm turning it around and asking you: why shouldn't he allow.........?

Eds, I'm not asking God to be a superman, I don't believe in God remember. I'm asking if there is a god why they wouldn't be more economic, and why they'd devise the most brutal, cruel deaths for people.

You keep saying I'm asking God to stop people dying- this is wrong. Of course people must die or we'd be over populated. But an economic God would have 'set' the age limit a bit lower rather than slaughtering the masses with tidal waves, famine, or parasitical infestations. Please don't make the mistake of thinking I'm somehow asking why people cannot live forever- to do so is to utterly misunderstand my point.

Your cousin had an accident as humans do and I'm sorry to hear that. There is no accident with natural disasters or diseases- I must ask, do you think God is in ANY way responsible for tidal waves, hurricanes, malaria or small pox? (to name some natural killers)

I'll emphasize, I'm not asking for people to live forever- I'm asking why a God would create a world where people must die in such awful NATURALLY caused ways?

On the OP, we are asking about God's mentality. Well surely any creator is powerful enough to have created the universe any which way he liked. He COULD have made a universe where people died younger (but at what we would consider a healthy age)- but instead he created a world where people be slaughtered by hurricanes, tidal waves, malaria, small pox (at one time), epidemics of many kind, earthquakes and so on.

Now, I'm not asking why God doesn't intervene. I'm asking if there is a God, to have created the universe with the needless suffering, pain and injustice it contains, often against those with no real experience of life- what kind of mentality do you think he has?

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:24 pm

Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:

Les it's going to be an answer that will never satisfy you. Because your interpretation of God is that you expect him to be like Superman; you want him to jump in front of the car hurtling to kill,the young mother, you want him to step in and stop the famine in Ethiopia thereby preventing hundreds of children dying.....

I'm afraid I dont hold to that belief that he must prevent these things and if he doesn't, then he doesn't exist.

Tell me, what if he did stop everyone from dying? What then? Would the world be better? Would we all behave better or worse?
How do you know what fate those people had in store had they not died then, on that particular day?
How do you know, what those starved children may have grown up,to be? Rapists? An army? The destruction of their village?

All stupid a hypothesis that sounds as ridiculous as saying "if there was a god then people wouldn't die!"

How absurd!
Do you want to live forever? I don't!

Yes life is unfair. So what?
My dad died way before his "time" - so did my friends girl, she hung from her neck at two years old in a nursery and definitely died before her time.
Why did God "allow" that to happen? Why didn't he intervene? Should he intervene in all children's accidents or just some?

My answer is I don't know. I'm not sure I want him to "intervene".

In the same way your mum has no place now, really, to intervene in your life; she gave you good grounding (obviously, look at the man you've become x), she set you up on a path of goodness and honesty and she taught you how to boil the kettle (lol) and to wait for cars to go past before you step,into the road.
What more can she do? It's up to you now.

Your only argument seems to be; why does God allow.........? (fill,in the blank)

So I'm turning it around and asking you: why shouldn't he allow.........?

Eds, I'm not asking God to be a superman, I don't believe in God remember. I'm asking if there is a god why they wouldn't be more economic, and why they'd devise the most brutal, cruel deaths for people.

You keep saying I'm asking God to stop people dying- this is wrong. Of course people must die or we'd be over populated. But an economic God would have 'set' the age limit a bit lower rather than slaughtering the masses with tidal waves, famine, or parasitical infestations. Please don't make the mistake of thinking I'm somehow asking why people cannot live forever- to do so is to utterly misunderstand my point.

Your cousin had an accident as humans do and I'm sorry to hear that. There is no accident with natural disasters or diseases- I must ask, do you think God is in ANY way responsible for tidal waves, hurricanes, malaria or small pox? (to name some natural killers)

I'll emphasize, I'm not asking for people to live forever- I'm asking why a God would create a world where people must die in such awful NATURALLY caused ways?

On the OP, we are asking about God's mentality. Well surely any creator is powerful enough to have created the universe any which way he liked. He COULD have made a universe where people died younger (but at what we would consider a healthy age)- but instead he created a world where people be slaughtered by hurricanes, tidal waves, malaria, small pox (at one time), epidemics of many kind, earthquakes and so on.

Now, I'm not asking why God doesn't intervene. I'm asking if there is a God, to have created the universe with the needless suffering, pain and injustice it contains, often against those with no real experience of life- what kind of mentality do you think he has?

bless you les, you cannot see beyond your personal bias, eddie hit the nail on the head, no answer given to you will be enough because you do not want there to be an answer, you have made you bed so lie on it..

those of faith in God have made theirs.... Smile

by Eilzel Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:36 pm

You do realize you and eddie do not share the same idea of God don't you? According to you the other day God directly intervened to make a woman walk again- at least be consistent haha

And again you and others FAIL to understand the difference between asking questions out of an academic interest in a subject and other peoples philosophies, and wanting a reason to believe.

I almost certainly wont change my beliefs, but that doesn't mean I can't have an interest in the beliefs of others, or enjoy questioning them. But you don't understand such matters, and never will Wink

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:42 pm

Eilzel wrote:You do realize you and eddie do not share the same idea of God don't you? According to you the other day God directly intervened to make a woman walk again- at least be consistent haha

And again you and others FAIL to understand the difference between asking questions out of an academic interest in a subject and other peoples philosophies, and wanting a reason to believe.

I almost certainly wont change my beliefs, but that doesn't mean I can't have an interest in the beliefs of others, or enjoy questioning them. But you don't understand such matters, and never will

I know i don't share the same beliefs as eddie..

i know you will never believe as being gay sets you against God... Smile

your only interest is to try and disprove the existence of a God who would describe gays as an abomination.. Smile

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:43 pm

Sassy wrote:Oh I believe in peoples right to practice it, it just pees me off when they want it all ways. Terrible things that happen are never 'God's' fault, but anyone saved from those things are saved by God! God never carries the can for inflicting illness, but for some reason is always the one who is supposed to have 'saved' those that get better or don't die. God saved my relative they say, not 'bloody God gave my relative a nasty disease'.

Allah causes all the bad things that happen =fact

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:55 pm

VOD(original) wrote:
Sassy wrote:Oh I believe in peoples right to practice it, it just pees me off when they want it all ways. Terrible things that happen are never 'God's' fault, but anyone saved from those things are saved by God! God never carries the can for inflicting illness, but for some reason is always the one who is supposed to have 'saved' those that get better or don't die. God saved my relative they say, not 'bloody God gave my relative a nasty disease'.
Allah causes all the bad things that happen =fact

Going back to normal VOD because I wouldn't go along with your pm about SM?

by Eilzel Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:56 pm

GIG stop talking shit. There are religions whiich do not have problems with gays; you can also believe in a 'god' as eddie does, and it not be one mentioned in any religion. I could believe in a God, it is only the Abrahamic God that is homophobic.

But I don't believe in any God. Now stop being an illogical dimwit.

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:03 pm

Eilzel wrote:GIG stop talking shit. There are religions whiich do not have problems with gays; you can also believe in a 'god' as eddie does, and it not be one mentioned in any religion. I could believe in a God, it is only the Abrahamic God that is homophobic.

But I don't believe in any God. Now stop being an illogical dimwit.

lol we aren't talking about allah or other gods are we, we are discussing the God of the bible, the one who speaks of gays as an abomination.... Smile

do you wonder why allah, zeus, buddah, odin...allow suffering.. Smile

or do you just have a problem with God who says no homosexual will find the kingdom of heaven.. Smile

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:05 pm

Sassy wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:
Allah causes all the bad things that happen =fact

Going back to normal VOD because I wouldn't go along with your pm about SM?

lol like we need your agreement to anything, talk about delusions of grandeur..lol

by Ben Reilly Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:19 pm

eddie wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Creating a global flood to wipe out almost all life? Coming to earth to live as a man?

Really, what would count as intervention if these things do not?

I don't believe in religion.
I think you've missed a big chunk of this topic.
Read back? Just a suggestion.

Eddie, GIG was saying God doesn't intervene and smelly was agreeing with them. I'm asking them.

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:21 pm

Sassy wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:
Allah causes all the bad things that happen =fact

Going back to normal VOD because I wouldn't go along with your pm about SM?

It was humour sassy as in a joke you know , you blame God for everything so i blamed allah as a joke but your getting defensive thinking it is against Islam

by Eilzel Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:24 pm

GIG, we aren't discussing the God of the Bible. Eddie isn't talking about the God of the Bible nor am I or others.

I could believe in any God; yet I believe none. There is no reason I cannot believe in the gods of the Hindus, Taoists, Druids, ancient Greeks, people like eddie etc that is based on my being gay- and the reason I don't believe in them is the SAME reason I don't believe in the god of the Jews, Christians and Muslims.

by Ben Reilly Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:27 pm

I love it how people act like atheists have reasons for rejecting the notion of God aside from the fact that there's no proof of God's existence. They're like a broken record; we don't believe because we like gay people, or because we want to sin in some other way -- it can't possibly be because in light of the facts, the notion of God is inherently ridiculous ...

by Eilzel Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:30 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:I love it how people act like atheists have reasons for rejecting the notion of God aside from the fact that there's no proof of God's existence. They're like a broken record; we don't believe because we like gay people, or because we want to sin in some other way -- it can't possibly be because in light of the facts, the notion of God is inherently ridiculous ...

It is a stupid argument agreed. I mean, I think it was Dawkins who said 'everyone is an atheist regarding all gods but their own'- well the reason we are atheists to all is the same reason they are atheists in regards to all those other gods Smile

by Ben Reilly Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:38 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:I love it how people act like atheists have reasons for rejecting the notion of God aside from the fact that there's no proof of God's existence. They're like a broken record; we don't believe because we like gay people, or because we want to sin in some other way -- it can't possibly be because in light of the facts, the notion of God is inherently ridiculous ...

It is a stupid argument agreed. I mean, I think it was Dawkins who said 'everyone is an atheist regarding all gods but their own'- well the reason we are atheists to all is the same reason they are atheists in regards to all those other gods

Reminds me of the anecdote where two professors, one of divinity and one of anthropology, are talking about their respective fields, and the divinity professor says, "I don't envy your job, having to explain why some cultures have such strange beliefs!" and the anthropologist nearly chokes Smile

by Eilzel Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:39 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

It is a stupid argument agreed. I mean, I think it was Dawkins who said 'everyone is an atheist regarding all gods but their own'- well the reason we are atheists to all is the same reason they are atheists in regards to all those other gods

Reminds me of the anecdote where two professors, one of divinity and one of anthropology, are talking about their respective fields, and the divinity professor says, "I don't envy your job, having to explain why some cultures have such strange beliefs!" and the anthropologist nearly chokes

Haha, very good Cool

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:41 pm

Its stupid to those who don't believe because the Holy Spirit changes a person and also experiencing a miracle changes a person .
I suppose its hard for those who don't believe to even imagine what it feels like to be in the presence of the Holy Spirit .

by Eilzel Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:43 pm

VOD(original) wrote:Its stupid to those who don't believe because the Holy Spirit changes a person and also experiencing a miracle changes a person .
I suppose its hard for those who don't believe to even imagine what it feels like to be in the presence of the Holy Spirit .

Dibs, how do you explain the miracles claimed to have been witnessed by Hindus? (There is one more famous one in which models of Ganesh actually started pouring milk, all over the world).

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:45 pm

I mind the one on Telly where the statue had milk coming out its nipples... Laughing

by gerber Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:05 pm

Joy Division wrote:I mind the one on Telly where the statue had milk coming out its nipples...

Lourdse lourdse louredse..........

by Ben Reilly Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:09 pm

VOD(original) wrote:Its stupid to those who don't believe because the Holy Spirit changes a person and also experiencing a miracle changes a person .
I suppose its hard for those who don't believe to even imagine what it feels like to be in the presence of the Holy Spirit .

I spent 30 years convincing myself that those feelings were caused by being in the presence of the Holy Spirit! I still have them from time to time even as a non-believer.

The presence of the Holy Spirit isn't the only reason you might feel content and connected to the world Smile

by eddie Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:02 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Eilzel wrote:You do realize you and eddie do not share the same idea of God don't you? According to you the other day God directly intervened to make a woman walk again- at least be consistent haha

And again you and others FAIL to understand the difference between asking questions out of an academic interest in a subject and other peoples philosophies, and wanting a reason to believe.

I almost certainly wont change my beliefs, but that doesn't mean I can't have an interest in the beliefs of others, or enjoy questioning them. But you don't understand such matters, and never will

I know i don't share the same beliefs as eddie..

i know you will never believe as being gay sets you against God...

your only interest is to try and disprove the existence of a God who would describe gays as an abomination..

Poppycock.
God loves all people. Only people who do wrong and hurt another, are his disappointments, and even then, he will forgive them - he must! He gave them free will.

To be judgemental is to do wrong. Therefore why would God judge someone who falls in love with another?
He doesn't judge: and neither should you.

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:10 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:Its stupid to those who don't believe because the Holy Spirit changes a person and also experiencing a miracle changes a person .
I suppose its hard for those who don't believe to even imagine what it feels like to be in the presence of the Holy Spirit .

I spent 30 years convincing myself that those feelings were caused by being in the presence of the Holy Spirit! I still have them from time to time even as a non-believer.

The presence of the Holy Spirit isn't the only reason you might feel content and connected to the world

I'm not content Ben I would prefer to have my mum and dad well once again , i hate seeing them so ill , i'm glad i have my faith it helps me but i am on edge most of the time you know what i mentioned in my pm about my situation .

I am happy to hear you have the feeling that the Holy Spirit is sometimes maybe it is true that once a person is a believer it can never be reversed no matter how much they deny the faith .
i believe in once saved always saved so even a believer cannot give back his salvation because once Jesus accepts us as his kids its forever and can't be reversed . Make of it what you want but that's how i see it .

by Eilzel Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:13 pm

Eilzel wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:Its stupid to those who don't believe because the Holy Spirit changes a person and also experiencing a miracle changes a person .
I suppose its hard for those who don't believe to even imagine what it feels like to be in the presence of the Holy Spirit .

Dibs, how do you explain the miracles claimed to have been witnessed by Hindus? (There is one more famous one in which models of Ganesh actually started pouring milk, all over the world).

by Ben Reilly Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:47 pm

VOD(original) wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:Its stupid to those who don't believe because the Holy Spirit changes a person and also experiencing a miracle changes a person .
I suppose its hard for those who don't believe to even imagine what it feels like to be in the presence of the Holy Spirit .

I spent 30 years convincing myself that those feelings were caused by being in the presence of the Holy Spirit! I still have them from time to time even as a non-believer.

The presence of the Holy Spirit isn't the only reason you might feel content and connected to the world
I'm not content Ben I would prefer to have my mum and dad well once again , i hate seeing them so ill , i'm glad i have my faith it helps me but i am on edge most of the time you know what i mentioned in my pm about my situation .

I am happy to hear you have the feeling that the Holy Spirit is sometimes maybe it is true that once a person is a believer it can never be reversed no matter how much they deny the faith .
i believe in once saved always saved so even a believer cannot give back his salvation because once Jesus accepts us as his kids its forever and can't be reversed . Make of it what you want but that's how i see it .

Only problem with that is that the Bible says my denial of the Holy Spirit absolutely cannot be forgiven, says Matthew 12:31. If there's a Hell, I'm going there Twisted Evil

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:59 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:
I'm not content Ben I would prefer to have my mum and dad well once again , i hate seeing them so ill , i'm glad i have my faith it helps me but i am on edge most of the time you know what i mentioned in my pm about my situation .

I am happy to hear you have the feeling that the Holy Spirit is sometimes maybe it is true that once a person is a believer it can never be reversed no matter how much they deny the faith .
i believe in once saved always saved so even a believer cannot give back his salvation because once Jesus accepts us as his kids its forever and can't be reversed . Make of it what you want but that's how i see it .

Only problem with that is that the Bible says my denial of the Holy Spirit absolutely cannot be forgiven, says Matthew 12:31. If there's a Hell, I'm going there

well Ben, one things for sure...the company down there is gonna be a lot more congenial than upstairs....I mean...imagine spending an eternity with GIG and VOD....

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:01 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:
I'm not content Ben I would prefer to have my mum and dad well once again , i hate seeing them so ill , i'm glad i have my faith it helps me but i am on edge most of the time you know what i mentioned in my pm about my situation .

I am happy to hear you have the feeling that the Holy Spirit is sometimes maybe it is true that once a person is a believer it can never be reversed no matter how much they deny the faith .
i believe in once saved always saved so even a believer cannot give back his salvation because once Jesus accepts us as his kids its forever and can't be reversed . Make of it what you want but that's how i see it .

Only problem with that is that the Bible says my denial of the Holy Spirit absolutely cannot be forgiven, says Matthew 12:31. If there's a Hell, I'm going there

...I'm right behind ya Ben! Twisted Evil

Call me....666.

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:05 pm

Me, I'm going where I always knew I would, to rejoin the energy of the universe, because the spark of energy we have within us, the essential being, can never die, just return to what it was and will be.

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:05 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:
I'm not content Ben I would prefer to have my mum and dad well once again , i hate seeing them so ill , i'm glad i have my faith it helps me but i am on edge most of the time you know what i mentioned in my pm about my situation .

I am happy to hear you have the feeling that the Holy Spirit is sometimes maybe it is true that once a person is a believer it can never be reversed no matter how much they deny the faith .
i believe in once saved always saved so even a believer cannot give back his salvation because once Jesus accepts us as his kids its forever and can't be reversed . Make of it what you want but that's how i see it .

Only problem with that is that the Bible says my denial of the Holy Spirit absolutely cannot be forgiven, says Matthew 12:31. If there's a Hell, I'm going there

you will know when your dead

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:07 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

Only problem with that is that the Bible says my denial of the Holy Spirit absolutely cannot be forgiven, says Matthew 12:31. If there's a Hell, I'm going there

well Ben, one things for sure...the company down there is gonna be a lot more congenial than upstairs....I mean...imagine spending an eternity with GIG and VOD....

agree we know we won't have to share it with you great news cheers

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:07 pm

Sassy wrote:Me, I'm going where I always knew I would, to rejoin the energy of the universe, because the spark of energy we have within us, the essential being, can never die, just return to what it was and will be.

...probably the most logical thinking I've heard.

by eddie Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:57 pm

Joy Division wrote:
Sassy wrote:Me, I'm going where I always knew I would, to rejoin the energy of the universe, because the spark of energy we have within us, the essential being, can never die, just return to what it was and will be.

...probably the most logical thinking I've heard.

by Guest Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:57 pm

eddie wrote:
Joy Division wrote:

...probably the most logical thinking I've heard.

What does that mean Eddie?

by eddie Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:00 pm

Joy Division wrote:
eddie wrote:

What does that mean Eddie?

You're always agreeing with sassy JD. It's a bit odd.
I mean, I love the bones of les but I don't go around agreeing with every post he makes.
You can sometimes disagree.

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