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God's Mentality

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Post by stardesk on Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:05 pm

First topic message reminder :

GOD’S MENTALITY

I cannot help but wonder what kind of mentality has God. When you spend money, time, and effort to make or create something, would you then allow something else to come along and demolish your creation? Would you stand back and watch as it’s being destroyed? Of course not, and yet this is exactly what God did, (assuming he exists, of course.) Having apparently created the Earth either he didn’t care or was helpless, whilst asteroids, ice-ages, volcanoes, earthquakes, and tsunamis, destroyed much of his creation. Was he responsible for the negative disasters that struck the planet? Did he create them on purpose to destroy a mistake? If so, then he is not the omnipotent, infallible, and loving father we are led to believe.

Moving on, he supposedly created all the animals and birds etc, and yet what do we find? Timid animals such as a Gazelle or Impala, being pounced on by lions and leopards, tearing at their throats and neck. Can you imagine the sheer terror and fear those timid creatures must have felt? Just one example of bird predation, during the mating season when Black Headed gulls have young in the nest, you will see Herring Gulls bomb down on the nest and grab the young, fly off with them and eat them.

I put these facts to a Jehovah’s Witness at my door, he quite seriously replied: ‘Oh, that’s all Satan’s fault.’ Need I say I had a good laugh at such ignorance. Poor old Satan, he’s been accused of just about every negative issue that exists on planet Earth. And yet, all he did was encourage Adam and Eve to become aware of themselves as self-aware, free-thinking individuals, with the ability to make decisions for themselves. Had that not have happened then they would have been no more than pets, subservient to God, running at his beck and call. I’m sitting here typing away on my laptop, the product of a free thinking, enquiring, inventive mind. Had Adam and Eve not awaken to future potential, we’d still be wandering around naked, rummaging and foraging for food in the wilds.
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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:36 am

victorisnotamused wrote:DURRRRR...have you actually read any of my posts on these matters?? ever???
because IF you had you would realise that you have just posted about a god I dont acknowledge
WHY...are you stuck with the abrahamic belief systems?

try working through this thread and reading what I have posted...

Aint no use waiting for a "sign" from a god thats just said "there ya go...here's a universe...now catch me up"


..I mean any God Victor..

I challenge anyone to prove there are any God, or that any God created or part created this world and universe..some might say prove there is not a God , but it easily sways in favour that I'm right in that there is no God...

God is a deity isn't he?, so whenever someone swears there are any God(s) , they can only mean in their own mind.

I believe we evolved from Animals..yes evolution and that this world was created by many various things like cells, bacteria and natural phenomenon...

I've never paid too much attention to it all, but it is a far better explanation than any God creating us....

Fossils have been found which relate us to animals, and that will do for me.

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:36 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Sassy wrote:We are our own God, the spark of energy inside us that makes us all unique and links us to the universe is the real spirituality.   When you taste an apple or listen to the sea, when you hold someone in your arms and the link between you is unexplainable, that is the spirit within you.   The only person you answer to is yourself, whether you are doing your best to help the world not hinder it, whether you can empathise, whether you can love, thats your spirit that joins the universal spirit (energy) when you go.   I've watched it go, I've seen a person become a shell, their energy flown.   Our bodies are chrysalis for the butterfly of our id, which never dies.   It can't, energy is permanent.   All we need to do is make sure our time here is as productive as we can make it (and I'm not referring to work), that we have done all that we can while we can.  

sassy, remind down the line to send you a philosophical discussion on this, and why I think you are so close to a truth here.....

I'd be most grateful Victor. All I can say is, I read and I recognised me, if you see what I mean.

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:38 am

Joy Division wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:DURRRRR...have you actually read any of my posts on these matters?? ever???
because IF you had you would realise that you have just posted about a god I dont acknowledge
WHY...are you stuck with the abrahamic belief systems?

try working through this thread and reading what I have posted...

Aint no use waiting for a "sign" from a god thats just said "there ya go...here's a universe...now catch me up"


..I mean any God Victor..

I challenge anyone to prove there are any God, or that any God created or part created this world and universe..some might say prove there is not a God , but it easily sways in favour that I'm right in that there is no God...

God is a deity isn't he?, so whenever someone swears there are any God(s) , they can only mean in their own mind.

I believe we evolved from Animals..yes evolution and that this world was created by many various things like cells, bacteria and natural phenomenon...

I've never paid  too much attention to it all, but it is a far better explanation than any God creating us....

Fossils have been found which relate us to animals, and that will do for me.

you are just choosing what you believe, the invention of men that is called evolution, you are accepting their facts and saying they are correct..

it does not mean they are correct... Smile 

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:38 am

and???

GO BACK AND READ MY POSTS...ffs....

and.... I challenge ANYONE to prove that this is all a cosmic fart.....

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:40 am

right ho...bed calls.....sleep well all.....

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:40 am

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Joy Division wrote:


..I mean any God Victor..

I challenge anyone to prove there are any God, or that any God created or part created this world and universe..some might say prove there is not a God , but it easily sways in favour that I'm right in that there is no God...

God is a deity isn't he?, so whenever someone swears there are any God(s) , they can only mean in their own mind.

I believe we evolved from Animals..yes evolution and that this world was created by many various things like cells, bacteria and natural phenomenon...

I've never paid  too much attention to it all, but it is a far better explanation than any God creating us....

Fossils have been found which relate us to animals, and that will do for me.

you are just choosing what you believe, the invention of men that is called evolution, you are accepting their facts and saying they are correct..

it does not mean they are correct... Smile 


So how do you explanation the fossil findings Favva?, that backs things up far more than a figment of the imagination which nobody can see or hear...

Unless they convince themselves of it.

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:41 am

there was a post earlier today that claimed science has proved Jesus was married, now if that is true they must have proved scientifically the Jesus existed...

so that's great news isn't it... Smile 

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:41 am

victorisnotamused wrote:right ho...bed calls.....sleep well all.....

Blessed be Victor.

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:41 am

victorisnotamused wrote:right ho...bed calls.....sleep well all.....


Ok Victor, we speak tomorrow chief, night night Smile

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:43 am

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:there was a post earlier today that claimed science has proved Jesus was married, now if that is true they must have proved scientifically the Jesus existed...

so that's great news isn't it... Smile 

I've no doubt there was guy called Jesus Favva?,,,but that doesn't prove he was the son of a deity and that his mother had the immaculate conception does it?

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:44 am

Joy Division wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

you are just choosing what you believe, the invention of men that is called evolution, you are accepting their facts and saying they are correct..

it does not mean they are correct... Smile 


So how do you explanation the fossil findings Favva?, that backs things up far more than a figment of the imagination which nobody can see or hear...

Unless they convince themselves of it.

the fossil record has failed woefully to support evolution, especially in transitional fossil, that's why punctuated equilibrium had to be invented to try and cover the gaps...

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:45 am

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Joy Division wrote:


So how do you explanation the fossil findings Favva?, that backs things up far more than a figment of the imagination which nobody can see or hear...

Unless they convince themselves of it.

the fossil record has failed woefully to support evolution, especially in transitional fossil, that's why punctuated equilibrium had to be invented to try and cover the gaps...



...so that's all a load of baloney Favva?

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:46 am

well....it is......and it isnt.........

so, ok this guy Jesus existed.....that hasnt been in doubt for a long time...nothing new there...
Non of the gospel events have been proven, several have been debunked...

was he the "son of god"...uh hu....wait...where's the proof........
certainly NOT in the bible and certainly NOT in the gospels..........
so....jury's out on that.....

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:47 am

Joy Division wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

the fossil record has failed woefully to support evolution, especially in transitional fossil, that's why punctuated equilibrium had to be invented to try and cover the gaps...



...so that's all a load of baloney Favva?

no its not it's the truth, the fossil record has huge gaps and very little if any transitional fossils, we never see one species become another species anywhere and never have...

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:28 am

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Joy Division wrote:



...so that's all a load of baloney Favva?

no its not it's the truth, the fossil record has huge gaps and very little if any transitional fossils, we never see one species become another species anywhere and never have...


That's want Fatiha used to say!!...Favva, your not gonna tell me the Earth is flat are you? Laughing 

We never see any God though Favva, yes I know he is a deity and you must believe ...but that's the kind of thing you say to your bairn in the finals of his karate...you must believe!

No matter how much you believe , nobody will genuinely see any God or Jesus Favva.

Here is one species become another Favva...this is transformation....


http://vimeo.com/42759483

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:46 am

victorisnotamused wrote:Oh help...................... there is an explanation for the problem of how god came to exist, and at the same time always is was and has been....and why therefor he is "limited".



its ermmmmm...very mathematical....and is also in accordance with the "hairier fringes of physics"...in fact if physics keeps developing as it is doing...it will complete a full circle and become philosophy again....

however if you want to explore the idea i can try to explain it....I'm not sure I fully understand the whole concept myself, so i may not get it entirely 100% correct, but I'm willing to have a go....

To be honest vic, I think where discussions on the existence of God or gods is concerned then it will always edge more on the philosophical side over scientific (although the ancient Greeks may have seen no difference, and they were wise men the Greeks  Wink ).

However I see modern science as gradually removing the blocks which help maintain the need for belief in gods. Evolution and the Big Bang for instance have meant for millions today all over the world the need for a god already seems surplus to requirements in regards to the existence of the universe and life. One day scientists will be able to explain those other mysteries such as consciousness and the origins of life on Earth.

Of course even when science can explain everything that needs to be explained then many will STILL claim 'god did it', and there is no answer to that, that is why it's about 'belief'; you can either choose to be satisfied with the facts or endlessly want for something more.

...

EDIT: vic I must inquire about a later point you make. You never explained why a creator always has been, and go on to state we may eventually equal our creator- is this a principle you subscribe to your god too? In which case aren't we looking at an infinite regression?

^sassy, I have consider your energy idea many times and it is very likely the case imo. If there is anything 'eternal' in the universe it must be the energy from which all things are born and which therefore is endlessly 'recycled' in the universe we live in. I just wouldn't ever use the misleading term 'spirit'  Wink 

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Post by eddie on Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:06 am

Sassy wrote:We are our own God, the spark of energy inside us that makes us all unique and links us to the universe is the real spirituality.   When you taste an apple or listen to the sea, when you hold someone in your arms and the link between you is unexplainable, that is the spirit within you.   The only person you answer to is yourself, whether you are doing your best to help the world not hinder it, whether you can empathise, whether you can love, thats your spirit that joins the universal spirit (energy) when you go.   I've watched it go, I've seen a person become a shell, their energy flown.   Our bodies are chrysalis for the butterfly of our id, which never dies.   It can't, energy is permanent.   All we need to do is make sure our time here is as productive as we can make it (and I'm not referring to work), that we have done all that we can while we can.  

I think this is quite correct. I think we, the spark of energy, have 'come off' a bigger spark of energy which I call God.
Everything you've said is exactly what I believe God is, only He (I call him he but you can call him what you like), is the initial spark/energy/spirit/blob/whatever.

This is what I've been trying to say all along.
Which is why I keep saying he isn't perfect, he has flaws and he created us with free will etc

It's everything you've said, but so much more than you can put into words.

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Post by eddie on Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:09 am

victorisnotamused wrote:well....it is......and it isnt.........

so, ok this guy Jesus existed.....that hasnt been in doubt for a long time...nothing new there...
Non of the gospel events have been proven, several have been debunked...

was he the "son of god"...uh hu....wait...where's the proof........
certainly NOT in the bible and certainly NOT in the gospels..........
so....jury's out on that.....

Agreed.
I think he existed. I think he was a nice guy, and he tried to carry a message to the masses.
But he was NOT the biological son of God! He was the son just as we all are God's children.

Jesus is immaterial. He was one of many, many spiritual leaders or people

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:50 am

Eds, I actually also think sassy has a pretty good theory there. But as Ben has said, we are then distorting the meaning of what it is to be a 'god'.

If god is merely 'energy' amd not an actual moulding, creative, conscious entity, then it isn't a god, it's just energy. Energy itself doesn't give us free will for instance, it is just something we have.

I appreciate many people use god as a familiar term- but there is gulf of difference on gods here from what GIG believes (Theological god) to vic (an indifferent and limited but nonetheless conscious god) to sass (cosmic energy we are a small part of). I don't think any definition of god would describe Him/Her as just energy; and I also think that such a belief is entirely atheistic.

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:51 pm

Lone Wolf wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

so basically you make a stupid generalisation that you cannot even defend..lol , that seems about right..

strict Christian, thats as funny as organised religion... Smile 

just because you know all the answers does not mean you would stop people doing what they wish, not stopping people doing what they wish does not mean you cannot...

God gave man dominion over all things.. it is up to people what they do with that.. Smile 
 lol! 

YOU really are a classic case of under-educated anti-logic and anti-rational thinking, GIGATT...

You don't even have "dominion" over your own thought processes and tipsy mental state..

And YET you will still blabber on about these issues that are so far beyond your minuscule comprehension !  Razz
beehave  ::D::

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Post by eddie on Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:15 pm

Eilzel wrote:Eds, I actually also think sassy has a pretty good theory there. But as Ben has said, we are then distorting the meaning of what it is to be a 'god'.

If god is merely 'energy' amd not an actual moulding, creative, conscious entity, then it isn't a god, it's just energy. Energy itself doesn't give us free will for instance, it is just something we have.

I appreciate many people use god as a familiar term- but there is gulf of difference on gods here from what GIG believes (Theological god) to vic (an indifferent and limited but nonetheless conscious god) to sass (cosmic energy we are a small part of). I don't think any definition of god would describe Him/Her as just energy; and I also think that such a belief is entirely atheistic.

Perhaps I'm somewhere in the middle then? I dont know .

I do know I have had many spiritual happenings, including two conversations with God  Razz 


Cue men in white coats.  Shocked 

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:50 pm

eddie wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Eds, I actually also think sassy has a pretty good theory there. But as Ben has said, we are then distorting the meaning of what it is to be a 'god'.

If god is merely 'energy' amd not an actual moulding, creative, conscious entity, then it isn't a god, it's just energy. Energy itself doesn't give us free will for instance, it is just something we have.

I appreciate many people use god as a familiar term- but there is gulf of difference on gods here from what GIG believes (Theological god) to vic (an indifferent and limited but nonetheless conscious god) to sass (cosmic energy we are a small part of). I don't think any definition of god would describe Him/Her as just energy; and I also think that such a belief is entirely atheistic.

Perhaps I'm somewhere in the middle then? I dont know .

I do know I have had many spiritual happenings, including two conversations with God  Razz 


Cue men in white coats.   Shocked 

Conversations with the inner self perhaps?  Wink 

As I said in an earlier post; I do and have enjoyed these conversations however; it is a fascinating subject from a personal pov. Though as I also said earlier- don't mistake my inquisitiveness for a wish to believe- my interest is purely academic x

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:08 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Joy Division wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

the fossil record has failed woefully to support evolution, especially in transitional fossil, that's why punctuated equilibrium had to be invented to try and cover the gaps...



...so that's all a load of baloney Favva?

no its not it's the truth, the fossil record has huge gaps and very little if any transitional fossils, we never see one species become another species anywhere and never have...

I really don't know why I'm telling you this AGAIN, but 1) the fossil record can't help but have gaps since dead organisms are rarely fossilized, 2) the fossil record does NOT have any contradictions, 3) every living thing including you and I are transitional fossils since life is always evolving, and 4) the fossil record is now considered by modern biologists to be the least-robust source of evidence for evolution -- molecular biology has been a much better source of evidence.

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:10 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

no its not it's the truth, the fossil record has huge gaps and very little if any transitional fossils, we never see one species become another species anywhere and never have...

I really don't know why I'm telling you this AGAIN, but 1) the fossil record can't help but have gaps since dead organisms are rarely fossilized, 2) the fossil record does NOT have any contradictions, 3) every living thing including you and I are transitional fossils since life is always evolving, and 4) the fossil record is now considered by modern biologists to be the least-robust source of evidence for evolution -- molecular biology has been a much better source of evidence.

lol there is no species in transition from one species to another anywhere ... Smile 

adaption is occuring, natural selection is occurring,that's your lot... Smile 

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:13 pm

eddie wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Eds, I actually also think sassy has a pretty good theory there. But as Ben has said, we are then distorting the meaning of what it is to be a 'god'.

If god is merely 'energy' amd not an actual moulding, creative, conscious entity, then it isn't a god, it's just energy. Energy itself doesn't give us free will for instance, it is just something we have.

I appreciate many people use god as a familiar term- but there is gulf of difference on gods here from what GIG believes (Theological god) to vic (an indifferent and limited but nonetheless conscious god) to sass (cosmic energy we are a small part of). I don't think any definition of god would describe Him/Her as just energy; and I also think that such a belief is entirely atheistic.

Perhaps I'm somewhere in the middle then? I dont know .

I do know I have had many spiritual happenings, including two conversations with God  Razz 


Cue men in white coats.   Shocked 

I'd say a conversation with your inner id lol.   You do seem to be somewhere in the middle, as I wouldn't equate universal energy with a 'god', because universal energy cannot produce so called 'miracles' etc.    

My, aren't we delving deep!

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:14 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

no its not it's the truth, the fossil record has huge gaps and very little if any transitional fossils, we never see one species become another species anywhere and never have...

I really don't know why I'm telling you this AGAIN, but 1) the fossil record can't help but have gaps since dead organisms are rarely fossilized, 2) the fossil record does NOT have any contradictions, 3) every living thing including you and I are transitional fossils since life is always evolving, and 4) the fossil record is now considered by modern biologists to be the least-robust source of evidence for evolution -- molecular biology has been a much better source of evidence.

lol there is no species in transition from one species to another anywhere ... Smile 

adaption is occuring, natural selection is occurring,that's your lot... Smile 

Actually, every species is constantly in the process of evolving into a new species. It just happens over a long time, so we don't notice the changes in our lifetimes. But if you look at something like Archeopteryx, that was an animal that was clearly neither just a bird nor just a dinosaur, but a little of both.

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:17 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

lol there is no species in transition from one species to another anywhere ... Smile 

adaption is occuring, natural selection is occurring,that's your lot... Smile 

Actually, every species is constantly in the process of evolving into a new species. It just happens over a long time, so we don't notice the changes in our lifetimes. But if you look at something like Archeopteryx, that was an animal that was clearly neither just a bird nor just a dinosaur, but a little of both.

you don't agree with punctuated equilibrium then.... Smile 

if it takes a very long time the fossil record should show that and still it does not... Smile 

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Post by eddie on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:23 pm

Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:

Perhaps I'm somewhere in the middle then? I dont know .

I do know I have had many spiritual happenings, including two conversations with God  Razz 


Cue men in white coats.   Shocked 

Conversations with the inner self perhaps?  Wink 

As I said in an earlier post; I do and have enjoyed these conversations however; it is a fascinating subject from a personal pov. Though as I also said earlier- don't mistake my inquisitiveness for a wish to believe- my interest is purely academic x

If they were the inner self I'd know les hahahaha I'm not stupid. I know the difference!!
When we next met up, if I come alone, I'll tell you. I've had quite a few unexplained things happen to me, perhaps that's why I'm more inclined to believe in something other than science and things that are written down and signed by a professor?


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Post by eddie on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:24 pm

Sassy wrote:
eddie wrote:

Perhaps I'm somewhere in the middle then? I dont know .

I do know I have had many spiritual happenings, including two conversations with God  Razz 


Cue men in white coats.   Shocked 

I'd say a conversation with your inner id lol.   You do seem to be somewhere in the middle, as I wouldn't equate universal energy with a 'god', because universal energy cannot produce so called 'miracles' etc.     

My, aren't we delving deep!

Sassy if I began to tell you the things that have happened to me, you would know where I was coming from.

Trust me x

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:33 pm

eddie wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Conversations with the inner self perhaps?  Wink 

As I said in an earlier post; I do and have enjoyed these conversations however; it is a fascinating subject from a personal pov. Though as I also said earlier- don't mistake my inquisitiveness for a wish to believe- my interest is purely academic x

If they were the inner self I'd know les hahahaha I'm not stupid. I know the difference!!
When we next met up, if I come alone, I'll tell you. I've had quite a few unexplained things happen to me, perhaps that's why I'm more inclined to believe in something other than science and things that are written down and signed by a professor?


It is hard not to sound patronizing Eds; but some Hindu's would say they've witnessed the miracles of Ganesha and Shiva; Christians who say they have a direct line to God; Muslims who know the will of Allah- how can you 'know' an almighty God is talking to you, personally.... I look forward to hearing all about it, but you just know I'll be full of skeptical questioning  Cool 

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:37 pm

eddie wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Eds, I actually also think sassy has a pretty good theory there. But as Ben has said, we are then distorting the meaning of what it is to be a 'god'.

If god is merely 'energy' amd not an actual moulding, creative, conscious entity, then it isn't a god, it's just energy. Energy itself doesn't give us free will for instance, it is just something we have.

I appreciate many people use god as a familiar term- but there is gulf of difference on gods here from what GIG believes (Theological god) to vic (an indifferent and limited but nonetheless conscious god) to sass (cosmic energy we are a small part of). I don't think any definition of god would describe Him/Her as just energy; and I also think that such a belief is entirely atheistic.

Perhaps I'm somewhere in the middle then? I dont know .

I do know I have had many spiritual happenings, including two conversations with God  Razz 


Cue men in white coats.   Shocked 



Hi Eddie

Not knocking you here, but how do you know you have conversed with a God? How can you separate what your mind may have created to thinking you are speaking with a God? How can we possible know what is real to the mind playing tricks on us?


If you though are right for arguments sake and God exists/speaks to you and a few others, why just you and others, why not all, why are you again and others are advantaged over the rest with this knowledge, with the ability to have communicated with a God/Creator?
Can you see the conundrum here to me, is this God you believe being fair by choosing select people to be privileged to know he/she? If that is how this God rolls, how would that be fair to the many who are unable to communicate?


To me though the mind can play the most imaginative ways to entice our emotions and feelings, it can act as if it is free of our own will, to entice us to believe in all kinds of what we come to see as realities, but to me its nothing more than our own fears of what happens at the end, that it can fool us to believe anything to strengthen our resolve. That is no bad thing if it provides the courage people need to live their lives, but again to me what people create within their minds, is no more than a gift the individual has been born with, which allows them to control their fears.


I fail to see how any could know thy truly speak with a God, and many have believed they have, but that shows if thus such a deity exists it asks not that we have faith in them, but faith in those people blessed with being in communication. Now again all should have faith in each other, but to place such beliefs onto the majority is unfair, when those gifted have no fear of having to have faith in other humans, because they know they can, being advantaged over the rest, that means this deity blesses some from their creation and thus provides them with an escape from choice. 

Is thus that creating all equal?

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Post by David on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:40 pm

eddie wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Conversations with the inner self perhaps?  Wink 

As I said in an earlier post; I do and have enjoyed these conversations however; it is a fascinating subject from a personal pov. Though as I also said earlier- don't mistake my inquisitiveness for a wish to believe- my interest is purely academic x

If they were the inner self I'd know les hahahaha I'm not stupid. I know the difference!!
When we next met up, if I come alone, I'll tell you. I've had quite a few unexplained things happen to me, perhaps that's why I'm more inclined to believe in something other than science and things that are written down and signed by a professor?


Same as you edds - I don't know your experience - I have had one experience that makes me know the difference between the inner self and something else.
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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:42 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

lol there is no species in transition from one species to another anywhere ... Smile 

adaption is occuring, natural selection is occurring,that's your lot... Smile 

Actually, every species is constantly in the process of evolving into a new species. It just happens over a long time, so we don't notice the changes in our lifetimes. But if you look at something like Archeopteryx, that was an animal that was clearly neither just a bird nor just a dinosaur, but a little of both.

you don't agree with punctuated equilibrium then.... Smile 

if it takes a very long time the fossil record should show that and still it does not... Smile 

You do realize, being the expert that you are, that even in the evolutionary "leaps" of punctuated equilibrium, we're still talking about time spans of 50 to 100 thousand years, of course.

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:46 pm

David wrote:
eddie wrote:

If they were the inner self I'd know les hahahaha I'm not stupid. I know the difference!!
When we next met up, if I come alone, I'll tell you. I've had quite a few unexplained things happen to me, perhaps that's why I'm more inclined to believe in something other than science and things that are written down and signed by a professor?


Same as you edds - I don't know your experience - I have had one experience that makes me know the difference between the inner self and something else.  

I'm sorry D but there are simply thousands of people who would claim the same only with variations; and many more who have had no such experience. Insane people have murdered because of their absolute conviction they were spoken to and chosen by whichever God. The human mind is powerful and capable of making us believe what we want to believe, and want is key to this. Just because someone thinks they have had a personal experience with Allah, Yahweh, Jesus, Krishna, or their own personal God does not mean they actually did. If you concede such experiences can and do happen then you have a very tough task in telling a potential terrorist or hate preacher they are wrong.

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Post by David on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:50 pm

Eilzel wrote:
David wrote:

Same as you edds - I don't know your experience - I have had one experience that makes me know the difference between the inner self and something else.  

I'm sorry D but there are simply thousands of people who would claim the same only with variations; and many more who have had no such experience. Insane people have murdered because of their absolute conviction they were spoken to and chosen by whichever God. The human mind is powerful and capable of making us believe what we want to believe, and want is key to this. Just because someone thinks they have had a personal experience with Allah, Yahweh, Jesus, Krishna, or their own personal God does not mean they actually did. If you concede such experiences can and do happen then you have a very tough task in telling a potential terrorist or hate preacher they are wrong.

Mr E I am not saying was spoken to by God. All I am prepared to say - I am not telling you online - is that I know the difference between my inner self and something else...
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Post by eddie on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:52 pm

David wrote:
eddie wrote:

If they were the inner self I'd know les hahahaha I'm not stupid. I know the difference!!
When we next met up, if I come alone, I'll tell you. I've had quite a few unexplained things happen to me, perhaps that's why I'm more inclined to believe in something other than science and things that are written down and signed by a professor?


Same as you edds - I don't know your experience - I have had one experience that makes me know the difference between the inner self and something else.  

Yes David and trying to explain a spiritual happening to logical thinkers is impossible!

@ les and didge, you know I love you guys but.......


 cheers Hallelujah!!! For I been saved and unto me he did speak!!!

 ://?roflmao?/: 

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:57 pm

eddie wrote:
David wrote:

Same as you edds - I don't know your experience - I have had one experience that makes me know the difference between the inner self and something else.  

Yes David and trying to explain a spiritual happening to logical thinkers is impossible!

@ les and didge, you know I love you guys but.......


 cheers Hallelujah!!! For I been saved and unto me he did speak!!!

 ://?roflmao?/: 



Fair play Eddie, would have been interested in your answers to my point but at least you are not one of the nutty ones, as Eilzel pointed out who have claimed to have been commanded by a deity to kill.
When you think about it are those charged doing this crimes really mentally insane only when they kill, or is the aspect of they claiming to speak with a deity that is perceived as insane?

Again not knocking you are any others with faith on this.

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:00 pm

Yes well; he has spoken to the two of you and so it must be true- forget the millions he leaves to die; and those who also think they 'spoke to God' who go on to murder thousands of innocents more- cause some people just have to die right as long as he leaves us alone we wont question our faith; cause us lucky few enjoy those one to ones every now and again with the conflicted big man  Laughing

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Post by David on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:02 pm

Eilzel wrote:Yes well; he has spoken to the two of you and so it must be true- forget the millions he leaves to die; and those who also think they 'spoke to God' who go on to murder thousands of innocents more- cause some people just have to die right as long as he leaves us alone we wont question our faith; cause us lucky few enjoy those one to ones every now and again with the conflicted big man  Laughing

Are you deaf Mr E x lol! 
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Post by eddie on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:02 pm

Didge wrote:
eddie wrote:

Yes David and trying to explain a spiritual happening to logical thinkers is impossible!

@ les and didge, you know I love you guys but.......


 cheers Hallelujah!!! For I been saved and unto me he did speak!!!

 ://?roflmao?/: 



Fair play Eddie, would have been interested in your answers to my point but at least you are not one of the nutty ones, as Eilzel pointed out who have claimed to have been commanded by a deity to kill.
When you think about it are those charged doing this crimes really mentally insane only when they kill, or is the aspect of they claiming to speak with a deity that is perceived as insane?

Again not knocking you are any others with faith on this.

Don't know didge. I'd like to say that they are obviously mentally insane as I am sure God wouldn't ask anyone to go and kill someone.

I can't answer your questions because from past experience, it's hard for a spiritual person to turn a logical person's thinking around.

To me, as long as you're a good person, forgiving, giving, loving, communicative and positive....you have "God" in your heart x

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:13 pm

eddie wrote:
Didge wrote:



Fair play Eddie, would have been interested in your answers to my point but at least you are not one of the nutty ones, as Eilzel pointed out who have claimed to have been commanded by a deity to kill.
When you think about it are those charged doing this crimes really mentally insane only when they kill, or is the aspect of they claiming to speak with a deity that is perceived as insane?

Again not knocking you are any others with faith on this.

Don't know didge. I'd like to say that they are obviously mentally insane as I am sure God wouldn't ask anyone to go and kill someone.

I can't answer your questions because from past experience, it's hard for a spiritual person to turn a logical person's thinking around.

To me, as long as you're a good person, forgiving, giving, loving, communicative and positive....you have "God" in your heart x



But why would they be insane to kill, when millions follow different religious books where this deity commands to kill? You are thus taking the belief a deity would not seek vengeance, when the Abrahamic faiths certainly do. If God exists then like you I would expect it would be of love, but again even you claiming to knowing this deity could also mean you only see one side and this deity if existed also could have a bad side, where it gets angry and commands people to kill. 
So really when you think about it millions of people follow the Abrahamic faiths, where they would be mentally insane to believe a deity would command to kill people, if we use your logic? I do not think millions are insane, but they certainly except what they see as the word of God, where again this word commands to kill. In Judaism it is called Harem, which is the command to commit genocide. 


So when you look at this we claim people who commit murder claiming to have been commanded by God our insane yet billions follow this belief daily that God has commanded to kill.

Again a conumdrum

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Post by eddie on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:16 pm

They are zealots, fanatics and are misled by what they read.
I was taking about the loner who goes out and raped and kills a women and claims God asked him to do it in my post above.
But as I say, the abrahamic faith is misguided IMO.

I dint believe in a God that made us and asks us to go and kill.

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:21 pm

eddie wrote:They are zealots, fanatics and are misled by what they read.
I was taking about the loner who goes out and raped and kills a women and claims God asked him to do it in my post above.
But as I say, the abrahamic faith is misguided IMO.

I dint believe in a God that made us and asks us to go and kill.



I am talking about what billions follow Eddie, in the main 3 Abrahamic faiths, the God commands to kill, and they see this as happened and the will of their deity and his anger, it controls people through fear. Hence the point on being sane, when billions except their deity has ordered people to kill.
So I am on the same page with you about how you see your deity, but it is one that sits back and allows humanity to get on with it if real.

xx

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:32 pm

eddie wrote:
Didge wrote:



Fair play Eddie, would have been interested in your answers to my point but at least you are not one of the nutty ones, as Eilzel pointed out who have claimed to have been commanded by a deity to kill.
When you think about it are those charged doing this crimes really mentally insane only when they kill, or is the aspect of they claiming to speak with a deity that is perceived as insane?

Again not knocking you are any others with faith on this.

Don't know didge. I'd like to say that they are obviously mentally insane as I am sure God wouldn't ask anyone to go and kill someone.

I can't answer your questions because from past experience, it's hard for a spiritual person to turn a logical person's thinking around.

To me, as long as you're a good person, forgiving, giving, loving, communicative and positive....you have "God" in your heart x

You are sure, but others are sure of their version. I mean I'm sure you have seen some spiritual people on TV eds and thought 'they are nuts'... Now I'm not saying anyone who believes in any god is nuts (because most people believe in a god let's be honest)- but the fact many people claim to have had experiences but with vastly different beliefs says more about what people want to believe and the human mind doing its work than what is actually true.

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:38 pm

eddie wrote:They are zealots, fanatics and are misled by what they read.
I was taking about the loner who goes out and raped and kills a women and claims God asked him to do it in my post above.
But as I say, the abrahamic faith is misguided IMO.

I dint believe in a God that made us and asks us to go and kill.

The god of the zealots is a god who reflects the beliefs of zealots Eds.

Your god is, unsurprisingly really, a reflection of your personal morals, beliefs and values.

It doesn't take much to wonder why the gods of the Ancient Egyptians all had the heads of animals you would find in Egypt and not the heads of kangaroos, badgers or llamas- they attributed to their gods what they knew.

Any person who believes in a god will attribute to them what they know including what they think is right and wrong etc, it is the only way of making sense of the universe from a subjective pov.

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Post by eddie on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:45 pm

Of course, some of us see God as in our own image, I would suppose? I'm not sure that's true for everyone.

I just see Him (for want of a better description) as like a loving father; he made us, gave us the tools for living our life and became our voice of reason.
When we go out into the big wide world we hear his voice in our conscience and we know right from wrong.

My version of this hasn't ever changed tbh. I offered this version to my son but never made him believe it, nor did I give him a religion. I allowed him to choose his own path, as I will my daughter when she is old enough.

Surprisingly, I did buy him the Usborne Children's bible as it has some good fables in it that teach good morals.
I always told him whenever he was troubled he should hold that book and let it fall open at a page and that story will help him.
It usually worked, strangely enough. Whatever the reason, it used to calm him down and I found it a nice way for him to find peace.

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:56 pm

eddie wrote:Of course, some of us see God as in our own image, I would suppose? I'm not sure that's true for everyone.

I just see Him (for want of a better description) as like a loving father; he made us, gave us the tools for living our life and became our voice of reason.
When we go out into the big wide world we hear his voice in our conscience and we know right from wrong.


My version of this hasn't ever changed tbh. I offered this version to my son but never made him believe it, nor did I give him a religion. I allowed him to choose his own path, as I will my daughter when she is old enough.

Surprisingly, I did buy him the Usborne Children's bible as it has some good fables in it that teach good morals.
I always told him whenever he was troubled he should hold that book and let it fall open at a page and that story will help him.
It usually worked, strangely enough. Whatever the reason, it used to calm him down and I found it a nice way for him to find peace.

See this is where your interpretation contradicts itself for me Eds. You describe him as a 'loving father' who equips us to live our life. Lovely, but you ignore the fact that (and I hate to be repetitive) he then indirectly kills millions of children on a yearly basis by having also created malaria and other diseases.

People have to die you say. No problem. So in answer to the question of God's mentality, we can at best charge him (if he exists) with wanton manslaughter. This isn't a question of whether I believe or not by the way- but if he does exist then for what is he responsible- because to me it sounds like when good things happen or we have an inner conversation 'thank god' but when bad things happen 'not his fault'...

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:07 pm

Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:Of course, some of us see God as in our own image, I would suppose? I'm not sure that's true for everyone.

I just see Him (for want of a better description) as like a loving father; he made us, gave us the tools for living our life and became our voice of reason.
When we go out into the big wide world we hear his voice in our conscience and we know right from wrong.


My version of this hasn't ever changed tbh. I offered this version to my son but never made him believe it, nor did I give him a religion. I allowed him to choose his own path, as I will my daughter when she is old enough.

Surprisingly, I did buy him the Usborne Children's bible as it has some good fables in it that teach good morals.
I always told him whenever he was troubled he should hold that book and let it fall open at a page and that story will help him.
It usually worked, strangely enough. Whatever the reason, it used to calm him down and I found it a nice way for him to find peace.

See this is where your interpretation contradicts itself for me Eds. You describe him as a 'loving father' who equips us to live our life. Lovely, but you ignore the fact that (and I hate to be repetitive) he then indirectly kills millions of children on a yearly basis by having also created malaria and other diseases.

People have to die you say. No problem. So in answer to the question of God's mentality, we can at best charge him (if he exists) with wanton manslaughter. This isn't a question of whether I believe or not by the way- but if he does exist then for what is he responsible- because to me it sounds like when good things happen or we have an inner conversation 'thank god' but when bad things happen 'not his fault'...


that's ust your point of view of course because you think he should interfere..

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:08 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

See this is where your interpretation contradicts itself for me Eds. You describe him as a 'loving father' who equips us to live our life. Lovely, but you ignore the fact that (and I hate to be repetitive) he then indirectly kills millions of children on a yearly basis by having also created malaria and other diseases.

People have to die you say. No problem. So in answer to the question of God's mentality, we can at best charge him (if he exists) with wanton manslaughter. This isn't a question of whether I believe or not by the way- but if he does exist then for what is he responsible- because to me it sounds like when good things happen or we have an inner conversation 'thank god' but when bad things happen 'not his fault'...


that's ust your point of view of course because you think he should interfere..

No I don't think he should interfere; I don't think you have paid attention to any of this really tbh.

Out of interest though- are you saying YOUR God does not interfere, ever?

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