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About Us & RulesIf you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
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If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:04 pm
First topic message reminder :
If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
Living in a mixed area makes us more tolerant, not less, studies show. That fact must be part of the immigration debate
Passive tolerance is probably not a concept many people have yet heard of. Let's hope that changes, because "passive tolerance" is the most hopeful bit of academic social psychology research to emerge in a long time. It is the idea that simply living in an area of high diversity rubs off on you, making you more tolerant of ethnic diversity.
Think of all those tiny interactions between different ethnic groups on an average British city street: the newsagent, the corner shop, the delivery driver, the postman, friends laughing, children playing, a pair of lovers. This is what generates passive tolerance. You don't have to be part of the interaction yourself; just witnessing it is enough to have a significant impact – comparable to the effect passive smoking has on your health, hence the term passive tolerance.
This is the finding of seven studies carried out over 10 years in the United States, Europe and South Africa, led by a team of social psychologists at the University of Oxford and published in the journal of the United States National Academy of Sciences. They were careful to rule out the most obvious explanation for their finding, social psychologists Miles Hewstone and Katharina Schmid explain – namely, that the higher levels of tolerance in more diverse neighbourhoods are a result of more tolerant people choosing to live there. Two of the studies were conducted over several years and tracked the same individuals, showing how attitudes changed. Even prejudiced people showed a greater degree of tolerance over time if they lived in a mixed neighbourhood.
The study's positive message is reinforced by the finding of a separate study led by the same Oxford team – the biggest to date in England on diversity and trust. White British people were asked whether they felt ethnic minorities threatened their way of life, increased crime levels, or took their jobs; ethnic minority participants were asked the same questions. Both groups were then asked about how they interact with other groups in everyday situations, such as corner shops, and then about how much they trusted people from their own and other ethnic groups in their neighbourhood. What the study found was that distrust does rise in diverse communities, but day to day, direct contact cancels it out.
The two studies together point to a more optimistic reading of how diversity impacts on urban neighbourhoods.
The reason passive tolerance is politically so important is not hard to see. Sociology and social psychology have frequently been drafted in to the highly charged political debate about community, integration and multiculturalism. Key concepts and ideas take hold in the political sphere and become a rationale for policy. The danger is that oft-quoted ideas can become self-fulfilling. Perhaps the most influential in this area has been US sociologist Professor Robert Putnam, who said diversity has a negative impact on social capital, leading to people "hunkering down", and trust in strangers and neighbourhoods dropping significantly. "Hunkering down" has become a widely quoted phrase as a respectable way for liberals to articulate their growing concern in an increasingly toxic political debate on immigration.
The problematic issue for the left is that lower levels of trust have been linked to declining support for the welfare state. The theory is that if you are less likely to trust the people around you, you are less willing to have a sense of solidarity and so less likely to stump up the taxes to pay for other people's benefits.
The author David Goodhart, for instance, has seized upon Putnam's "hunkering down thesis as vindication of the controversial position he holds has long advanced. He routinely invokes Putnam to argue that the pace and scale of increasing diversity in the UK has been too great and, as he said in a recent interview, people "become less willing to share resources and do the things we require of people in a modern welfare state". The left faces a nasty conundrum as two of its most sacred shibboleths come into conflict: ethnic diversity and the solidarity necessary for a strong welfare state.
This new research throws these conclusions into question. Putnam's work may, after all, have been misleading. In fact, rather than hunkering down, living in a mixed neighbourhood helps you open up. In some ways this vindicates many people's anecdotal experience of their own enjoyment of diversity in their neighbourhoods, and the sense that the most pronounced fear and prejudice is found in exclusively white areas.
The research also vindicates the case for local initiatives to foster social exchange and build community relationships. From carnivals to coffee mornings, jumble sales to fun days in the park – all these are opportunities to generate passive tolerance. Sadly, however, many of these initiatives have fallen victim to local authority funding cuts. The impact of austerity has been compounded by a loss of confidence – in which Putnam's research played its part – about fostering strong diverse communities. Multiculturalism has fallen from favour, misunderstood and maligned as the set of ideas that guided community relations for a generation.
No one was more acutely aware of this danger than Putnam himself when he talked to me on the publication of his research in 2007, the timing made the danger all the more acute in the aftermath of 7/7 bombings. Since then the theme of integration has come to dominate – with its coercive and conformist overtones. The result has been a yawning gap with no positive narrative for the fast-changing diversity of Britain's urban life.
The hope is that this academic research will percolate into policy and public life, inspiring confidence again that strong diverse communities are not only possible, but can also work as beacons, converting residents and visitors alike to a possibility of rich exchange.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/16/passive-tolerance-beacon-hope-diverse-communities
Always said, live with people and the fear goes. If you don't mix you build up a bogey man in your head that simply doesn't exist in fact.
If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
Living in a mixed area makes us more tolerant, not less, studies show. That fact must be part of the immigration debate
Passive tolerance is probably not a concept many people have yet heard of. Let's hope that changes, because "passive tolerance" is the most hopeful bit of academic social psychology research to emerge in a long time. It is the idea that simply living in an area of high diversity rubs off on you, making you more tolerant of ethnic diversity.
Think of all those tiny interactions between different ethnic groups on an average British city street: the newsagent, the corner shop, the delivery driver, the postman, friends laughing, children playing, a pair of lovers. This is what generates passive tolerance. You don't have to be part of the interaction yourself; just witnessing it is enough to have a significant impact – comparable to the effect passive smoking has on your health, hence the term passive tolerance.
This is the finding of seven studies carried out over 10 years in the United States, Europe and South Africa, led by a team of social psychologists at the University of Oxford and published in the journal of the United States National Academy of Sciences. They were careful to rule out the most obvious explanation for their finding, social psychologists Miles Hewstone and Katharina Schmid explain – namely, that the higher levels of tolerance in more diverse neighbourhoods are a result of more tolerant people choosing to live there. Two of the studies were conducted over several years and tracked the same individuals, showing how attitudes changed. Even prejudiced people showed a greater degree of tolerance over time if they lived in a mixed neighbourhood.
The study's positive message is reinforced by the finding of a separate study led by the same Oxford team – the biggest to date in England on diversity and trust. White British people were asked whether they felt ethnic minorities threatened their way of life, increased crime levels, or took their jobs; ethnic minority participants were asked the same questions. Both groups were then asked about how they interact with other groups in everyday situations, such as corner shops, and then about how much they trusted people from their own and other ethnic groups in their neighbourhood. What the study found was that distrust does rise in diverse communities, but day to day, direct contact cancels it out.
The two studies together point to a more optimistic reading of how diversity impacts on urban neighbourhoods.
The reason passive tolerance is politically so important is not hard to see. Sociology and social psychology have frequently been drafted in to the highly charged political debate about community, integration and multiculturalism. Key concepts and ideas take hold in the political sphere and become a rationale for policy. The danger is that oft-quoted ideas can become self-fulfilling. Perhaps the most influential in this area has been US sociologist Professor Robert Putnam, who said diversity has a negative impact on social capital, leading to people "hunkering down", and trust in strangers and neighbourhoods dropping significantly. "Hunkering down" has become a widely quoted phrase as a respectable way for liberals to articulate their growing concern in an increasingly toxic political debate on immigration.
The problematic issue for the left is that lower levels of trust have been linked to declining support for the welfare state. The theory is that if you are less likely to trust the people around you, you are less willing to have a sense of solidarity and so less likely to stump up the taxes to pay for other people's benefits.
The author David Goodhart, for instance, has seized upon Putnam's "hunkering down thesis as vindication of the controversial position he holds has long advanced. He routinely invokes Putnam to argue that the pace and scale of increasing diversity in the UK has been too great and, as he said in a recent interview, people "become less willing to share resources and do the things we require of people in a modern welfare state". The left faces a nasty conundrum as two of its most sacred shibboleths come into conflict: ethnic diversity and the solidarity necessary for a strong welfare state.
This new research throws these conclusions into question. Putnam's work may, after all, have been misleading. In fact, rather than hunkering down, living in a mixed neighbourhood helps you open up. In some ways this vindicates many people's anecdotal experience of their own enjoyment of diversity in their neighbourhoods, and the sense that the most pronounced fear and prejudice is found in exclusively white areas.
The research also vindicates the case for local initiatives to foster social exchange and build community relationships. From carnivals to coffee mornings, jumble sales to fun days in the park – all these are opportunities to generate passive tolerance. Sadly, however, many of these initiatives have fallen victim to local authority funding cuts. The impact of austerity has been compounded by a loss of confidence – in which Putnam's research played its part – about fostering strong diverse communities. Multiculturalism has fallen from favour, misunderstood and maligned as the set of ideas that guided community relations for a generation.
No one was more acutely aware of this danger than Putnam himself when he talked to me on the publication of his research in 2007, the timing made the danger all the more acute in the aftermath of 7/7 bombings. Since then the theme of integration has come to dominate – with its coercive and conformist overtones. The result has been a yawning gap with no positive narrative for the fast-changing diversity of Britain's urban life.
The hope is that this academic research will percolate into policy and public life, inspiring confidence again that strong diverse communities are not only possible, but can also work as beacons, converting residents and visitors alike to a possibility of rich exchange.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/16/passive-tolerance-beacon-hope-diverse-communities
Always said, live with people and the fear goes. If you don't mix you build up a bogey man in your head that simply doesn't exist in fact.
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:04 pm
So what do we have here nothing but prejudice arguments, none can show why it does not benefit humans to get along with each other or why they cannot get along with each other, all they do is provide reasons to dislike others and how do they do this, by collectively casting all of a group of humans as if all are bad, by use off associations, as if now we have cultures around the world that all within a group kill, rape and hurt people.
This is why we learn from history where such prejudice leads to, humans can and do get along with each others, but those who seek to divide us do so by us allowing ourselves to listen to unreasonable arguments, they want us to believe that people should fear and dislike people just because they themselves lack any understanding of the true compassion of humans. We are all biologically the same, and some may claim that prejudice is hard wired, but take those who forgive what is taken as the unforgivable, those go against any belief that prejudice is hard wired into us, they show that all humans have the capability to get along even when the worst and most heinous crimes have been committed to them or their families. This is why such people will argue against cultures getting along, because they do not want humanity to get along, which is really sad and sad that such people are ignorant to look at others with such beliefs.
No where has any argued that humans cannot get along or that they should not get along, if they can show that no humans have the capacity to work, live and love, then their arguments are flawed, because we all have the capacity to get along and that is our own choosing, and for those who do not want to get along with others or feel they should not have to, then they leave themselves behind, because they clearly have not evolved as humans, but wish to remain in the dark
That is why their arguments never win on humans getting along, because plenty will, no matter how many start wars or conflicts, others will rise above such hate.
This is why we learn from history where such prejudice leads to, humans can and do get along with each others, but those who seek to divide us do so by us allowing ourselves to listen to unreasonable arguments, they want us to believe that people should fear and dislike people just because they themselves lack any understanding of the true compassion of humans. We are all biologically the same, and some may claim that prejudice is hard wired, but take those who forgive what is taken as the unforgivable, those go against any belief that prejudice is hard wired into us, they show that all humans have the capability to get along even when the worst and most heinous crimes have been committed to them or their families. This is why such people will argue against cultures getting along, because they do not want humanity to get along, which is really sad and sad that such people are ignorant to look at others with such beliefs.
No where has any argued that humans cannot get along or that they should not get along, if they can show that no humans have the capacity to work, live and love, then their arguments are flawed, because we all have the capacity to get along and that is our own choosing, and for those who do not want to get along with others or feel they should not have to, then they leave themselves behind, because they clearly have not evolved as humans, but wish to remain in the dark
That is why their arguments never win on humans getting along, because plenty will, no matter how many start wars or conflicts, others will rise above such hate.
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:16 pm
smelly_bandit wrote:have i got the wrong end of this??
is someone suggesting that Saudi Arabia is multicultural??
say it aint so
sorry smelly but it is so......
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:20 pm
Wow
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:22 pm
See no arguments, one now on Saudi, why is it that in the future Saudi is a place where people get along?
Only a person of prejudice does not see any light at the end of the tunnel, they like the present Saudi system of Government wish to remain backwards
Again can they show that humanity has not the capability to get along?
No
Can they show American is a failure, born from Multiculturalism
No
What can they only offer to the debate?
Hate and what fuels hate?
Prejudice
Only a person of prejudice does not see any light at the end of the tunnel, they like the present Saudi system of Government wish to remain backwards
Again can they show that humanity has not the capability to get along?
No
Can they show American is a failure, born from Multiculturalism
No
What can they only offer to the debate?
Hate and what fuels hate?
Prejudice
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:38 pm
More emotion stirring, rather than honesty....
Have I said I want to harm anyone...NO
have I said I approve of harm being done...NO
so all that above is a terrible lesson from history....
The answer to it DOES NOT include unconditional acceptance of others cultures to the point of compromising your own..
IF we had TRUE....FULLY ENFORCED....AND STRICTLY CONTROLLED "multiculturalism".....then those protesters at the air base where out dead servicemen came home to ....would have immediately been arrested and charged with AT LEAST behaviour liable to cause a breach of the peace and preferable outraging public decency..but no....THEY were allowed to get away with it...Their "culture" was allowed precedence over "mine".
choudrey and his cronies would have been immediately arrested for the disruption they caused to christmas shoppers in london, and charged with religiously agravated harassment...but again...no.
and the list goes ever onwards.....
sharia and the jewish equivalent courts would be banned and having anything to do with them would be a serious offense....IF we were STRICT about it.....but again no...
your argumnents submitted above didge are actually "reductio ad absurdum" since I HAVE NOWHERE SUGGESTED ANY SUCH THING. This is of course the tactic of the liberalist (progressive) ...ANYONE who doesnt agree with their agenda is to be labeled "racist" and compared to the worst aspects of the third reich...Anything short of total surrender and sheeplike agreement is met with a barrage of nonsensical abuse...
disagreeing that multiculuralism is either the best thing since sliced bread or doubt that it is ACTUALLY working (contrary to the glazed eye belief of the progressive) is liable to render the skeptic fair target for the worst abuse possible...this is how the Iron fist of the "progressive" works
AND STILL...no one can show ANY benefit of "multiculturalism"
definition of multiculturalism... the doctrine that several different cultures (rather than one national culture) can coexist peacefully and equitably in a single country
via... http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=multiculturalism
THAT COULD NOT or indeed would not, inevitably, given TODAYS communications, be aquired some other way...
say by the SAUDI way of "multiculturalism"
Have I said I want to harm anyone...NO
have I said I approve of harm being done...NO
so all that above is a terrible lesson from history....
The answer to it DOES NOT include unconditional acceptance of others cultures to the point of compromising your own..
IF we had TRUE....FULLY ENFORCED....AND STRICTLY CONTROLLED "multiculturalism".....then those protesters at the air base where out dead servicemen came home to ....would have immediately been arrested and charged with AT LEAST behaviour liable to cause a breach of the peace and preferable outraging public decency..but no....THEY were allowed to get away with it...Their "culture" was allowed precedence over "mine".
choudrey and his cronies would have been immediately arrested for the disruption they caused to christmas shoppers in london, and charged with religiously agravated harassment...but again...no.
and the list goes ever onwards.....
sharia and the jewish equivalent courts would be banned and having anything to do with them would be a serious offense....IF we were STRICT about it.....but again no...
your argumnents submitted above didge are actually "reductio ad absurdum" since I HAVE NOWHERE SUGGESTED ANY SUCH THING. This is of course the tactic of the liberalist (progressive) ...ANYONE who doesnt agree with their agenda is to be labeled "racist" and compared to the worst aspects of the third reich...Anything short of total surrender and sheeplike agreement is met with a barrage of nonsensical abuse...
disagreeing that multiculuralism is either the best thing since sliced bread or doubt that it is ACTUALLY working (contrary to the glazed eye belief of the progressive) is liable to render the skeptic fair target for the worst abuse possible...this is how the Iron fist of the "progressive" works
AND STILL...no one can show ANY benefit of "multiculturalism"
definition of multiculturalism... the doctrine that several different cultures (rather than one national culture) can coexist peacefully and equitably in a single country
via... http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=multiculturalism
THAT COULD NOT or indeed would not, inevitably, given TODAYS communications, be aquired some other way...
say by the SAUDI way of "multiculturalism"
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:39 pm
So now we are having a debated based on pipe dreams and wishful thinking about what might happen in the future
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:41 pm
smelly_bandit wrote:So now we are having a debated based on pipe dreams and wishful thinking about what might happen in the future
You see no answer, once they thought that it was a dream that apartheid would end.
Guess that dream came to pass did it not.
Thanks for proving my point how people with such bent up prejudice think, I rest my case.
Again can you show all humans do not have the capability to not get along?
Nope
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:44 pm
Didge wrote:smelly_bandit wrote:So now we are having a debated based on pipe dreams and wishful thinking about what might happen in the future
You see no answer, once they thought that it was a dream that apartheid would end.
Guess that dream came to pass did it not.
Thanks for proving my point how people with such bent up prejudice think, I rest my case.
Again can you show all humans do not have the capability to not get along?
Nope
It wasn't dreams that ended apartheid
It was a campaign of terrorism and war combined with international sanctions
Actions not pipe dreams ended apartheid
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:48 pm
Didge wrote:See no arguments, one now on Saudi, why is it that in the future Saudi is a place where people get along?
EH??? Veya is the one claiming SAUDI is "multicultural"....I merely pointed out how "multicultural" they are. Perhaps THEIR culture defines "multicultural" in a different way to ours...now there's a problem....
Only a person of prejudice does not see any light at the end of the tunnel, they like the present Saudi system of Government wish to remain backwards
Again can they show that humanity has not the capability to get along?
No
Can they show American is a failure, born from Multiculturalism
No
ERM...YES actually.....what happened to the "host culture" of America" ???....oh dear...I do think it was all but wiped out and the remainder stuffed into reservations..... so much for multiculturalism if you happened to be a HOPI, or Cherokee or..............
What can they only offer to the debate?
Hate and what fuels hate?
why is it "hate" to NOT want to be part (even in part) and albeit by inaction, of the slightest bit of another culture, especially one that has nothing to offer....(and THAT can apply to MANY )
Prejudice
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:54 pm
since you seem to think I am SOLEY concerned with muslims, lets just stick there for a moment....
let me ask you THIS....
I will assume for the purposes of this point that there are NO "disbenefits" (shurrup smelly
)
BUT...what BENEFIT can the various cultures that comprise islam bring ME....(not interested in historic ones...)
Since islam is spread across multiple cultures lets start by listing the most prominent ones
like...
Pashtun.......... what benefit can this bring me???
...carry on.............
ONLY THEN can we consider the question of what benefit the overall religious belief of "islam" can offer....
let me ask you THIS....
I will assume for the purposes of this point that there are NO "disbenefits" (shurrup smelly
)BUT...what BENEFIT can the various cultures that comprise islam bring ME....(not interested in historic ones...)
Since islam is spread across multiple cultures lets start by listing the most prominent ones
like...
Pashtun.......... what benefit can this bring me???
...carry on.............
ONLY THEN can we consider the question of what benefit the overall religious belief of "islam" can offer....
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:56 pm
victorismyhero wrote:More emotion stirring, rather than honesty....
Have I said I want to harm anyone...NO
have I said I approve of harm being done...NO
You do not need to say you want to harm anyone, you instill fear into people and where does fear lead to, hate, and where does hate lead to, acts of hate, showing again how little you understand anything, again it was a fear of the Jews and its culture that led to hate and blame cast onto them
so all that above is a terrible lesson from history....
Actually it shows you have learnt nothing from history
The answer to it DOES NOT include unconditional acceptance of others cultures to the point of compromising your own..
IF we had TRUE....FULLY ENFORCED....AND STRICTLY CONTROLLED "multiculturalism".....then those protesters at the air base where out dead servicemen came home to ....would have immediately been arrested and charged with AT LEAST behaviour liable to cause a breach of the peace and preferable outraging public decency..but no....THEY were allowed to get away with it...Their "culture" was allowed precedence over "mine".
That is the law that you are asking to change in regards to a few individuals, that does not mean you should vilify all Muslims due to this, so again association fallacy, based now on why we do not see the same when American extreme Christians do the same with their own fallen, why have they not been arrested for expressing their right to protest? I may certainly not like what they are protesting about, but we have the freedom to protest against anything, which as seen happens all the time as you protest and others do vocally against Muslims. Do you want to now deny people the right to protest
choudrey and his cronies would have been immediately arrested for the disruption they caused to christmas shoppers in london, and charged with religiously agravated harassment...but again...no.
So should we not arrest every EDL supporter every time they march into a town and create mass disruption, with pissed up idiots out with one intent to promote hate? No they have every right to protest as well, even if their views are appalling. So again your argument is selective and looks only at some who disrupt, if your issue is on any protest that incites people, then all protests that incite people should be banned or those who participate arrested, is that what you want?
and the list goes ever onwards.....
sharia and the jewish equivalent courts would be banned and having anything to do with them would be a serious offense....IF we were STRICT about it.....but again no...
These courts have no power over the British law, if people choose to abide by religious beliefs, that is their choice, as long as it does not conflict with British law or any discrimination, when it does, then it should be dealt with by criminal law
your argumnents submitted above didge are actually "reductio ad absurdum" since I HAVE NOWHERE SUGGESTED ANY SUCH THING. This is of course the tactic of the liberalist (progressive) ...ANYONE who doesnt agree with their agenda is to be labeled "racist" and compared to the worst aspects of the third reich...Anything short of total surrender and sheeplike agreement is met with a barrage of nonsensical abuse...
It matters not if you have never suggested violence, what you fail to see is where such unfounded prejudice views you promote lead to, it is repeated time and time again throughout history and still you cannot grasp that, all stemming from poor prejudice collective fallacy association arguments. You speak of agreement, what agreement, getting along with people is now wrong, how absurd. The fact is your arguments here speak of anger again, calling people sheep and as if liberals are all bad, you again reek of hate
disagreeing that multiculuralism is either the best thing since sliced bread or doubt that it is ACTUALLY working (contrary to the glazed eye belief of the progressive) is liable to render the skeptic fair target for the worst abuse possible...this is how the Iron fist of the "progressive" works
AND STILL...no one can show ANY benefit of "multiculturalism"
definition of multiculturalism... the doctrine that several different cultures (rather than one national culture) can coexist peacefully and equitably in a single country
via... http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=multiculturalism
THAT COULD NOT or indeed would not, inevitably, given TODAYS communications, be aquired some other way...
say by the SAUDI way of "multiculturalism"
You have had plenty to show that multiculturalism can work and does work again America is evidence for that, only people who do not want it to work will try their best to ensure it does not work which goes back to the point you cannot show humans do not have the capability to get along, so it is only you and others standing in the way of getting along with others, you are thus the maker of your own problem, that is the sad reality you do not see.
Not only that every argument you present is flawed, it seeks to not look at a whole position, like you did not do with killing animals, but made it selective, you do the same here with protests, again it a concept is wrong and should be made law, then all aspects mean that all fall under that remit, you cannot make a law and then be selective to groups if many incite violence
That is why each time your arguments fail they are poor guilt by associations, you offer nothing to show why it cannot work, when clearly it has worked and again America is testament to that.
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:58 pm
smelly_bandit wrote:Didge wrote:
You see no answer, once they thought that it was a dream that apartheid would end.
Guess that dream came to pass did it not.
Thanks for proving my point how people with such bent up prejudice think, I rest my case.
Again can you show all humans do not have the capability to not get along?
Nope
It wasn't dreams that ended apartheid
It was a campaign of terrorism and war combined with international sanctions
Actions not pipe dreams ended apartheid
Actually it was forgiveness and reconciliation that ended apartheid through Mandela, hence it was no pipe dream and I never said it was a cream that ended it did I, the dream of ending apartheid became a reality
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:01 pm
victorismyhero wrote:Didge wrote:See no arguments, one now on Saudi, why is it that in the future Saudi is a place where people get along?
EH??? Veya is the one claiming SAUDI is "multicultural"....I merely pointed out how "multicultural" they are. Perhaps THEIR culture defines "multicultural" in a different way to ours...now there's a problem....
Only a person of prejudice does not see any light at the end of the tunnel, they like the present Saudi system of Government wish to remain backwards
Again can they show that humanity has not the capability to get along?
No
Can they show American is a failure, born from Multiculturalism
No
ERM...YES actually.....what happened to the "host culture" of America" ???....oh dear...I do think it was all but wiped out and the remainder stuffed into reservations..... so much for multiculturalism if you happened to be a HOPI, or Cherokee or..............
What can they only offer to the debate?
Hate and what fuels hate?
why is it "hate" to NOT want to be part (even in part) and albeit by inaction, of the slightest bit of another culture, especially one that has nothing to offer....(and THAT can apply to MANY )
Prejudice
Nobody has denied hate was a great part of American history, but that was not the multicultural part, the mass immigration of the late 19th and 20 century was, so again has it worked, very much so, because even then just like you are today the cultural pessimist you are many feared the immigrants all coming and treated them with disdain, but within decades, that changed.
So again you really are utterly clueless on history, I suggest some evening classes, or to actually read a book might help
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:03 pm
The trc was held after apartheid
So not really sure how it ended anything when it didn't exist
So not really sure how it ended anything when it didn't exist
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:06 pm
smelly_bandit wrote:The trc was held after apartheid
So not really sure how it ended anything when it didn't exist
Well I do love someone who hates the fact it was don to the forgiveness and reconciliation of Mandela that brought about the end of apartheid, I know it kills you to hear that ha ha ha ha
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:15 pm
Oh well maybe tomorrow I will see some valid arguments instead all the lame selective ones so far.
Again if nobody can show that all people do not have the capabilities to get along with each other, than no argument can lay claim to saying Multiculturalism is a failure, even more so we are now just as the USA was in the late 19th century with mass immigration and how just as we have now people spouting prejudice arguments many did the exact same there, showing again people learn nothing from history.
Night all
Again if nobody can show that all people do not have the capabilities to get along with each other, than no argument can lay claim to saying Multiculturalism is a failure, even more so we are now just as the USA was in the late 19th century with mass immigration and how just as we have now people spouting prejudice arguments many did the exact same there, showing again people learn nothing from history.
Night all
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:32 pm
Didge wrote:victorismyhero wrote:
Nobody has denied hate was a great part of American history, but that was not the multicultural part, Talk about selective blindness....and selective definition... so the destruction of the american indian culture (the host culture) BY the incomming european culture wasnt a result of multiculturalism gone wrong...now why does that NOT surprise me?? if it doesnt suit your agenda, it aint so....you are well and truely rumbled didge.....the mass immigration of the late 19th and 20 century was, so again has it worked, very much so, because even then just like you are today the cultural pessimist you are many feared the immigrants all coming and treated them with disdain, but within decades, that changed.
So again you really are utterly clueless on history, I suggest some evening classes, or to actually read a book might help
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:48 pm
Didge wrote:victorismyhero wrote:More emotion stirring, rather than honesty....
Have I said I want to harm anyone...NO
have I said I approve of harm being done...NO
You do not need to say you want to harm anyone, you instill fear into people That is blatant misrepresentation...why does my NOT wanting to have to accept any part of anothers culture instill fear?? they must be VERY sensitive and feel VERY weak if THAT fears them??? and where does fear lead to, hate, and where does hate lead to, acts of hate, showing again how little you understand anything, again it was a fear of the Jews and its culture that led to hate and blame cast onto them
so all that above is a terrible lesson from history....
Actually it shows you have learnt nothing from history
The answer to it DOES NOT include unconditional acceptance of others cultures to the point of compromising your own..
IF we had TRUE....FULLY ENFORCED....AND STRICTLY CONTROLLED "multiculturalism".....then those protesters at the air base where out dead servicemen came home to ....would have immediately been arrested and charged with AT LEAST behaviour liable to cause a breach of the peace and preferable outraging public decency..but no....THEY were allowed to get away with it...Their "culture" was allowed precedence over "mine".
That is the law that you are asking to change in regards to a few individuals, that does not mean you should vilify all Muslims due to this, so again association fallacy, based now on why we do not see the same when American extreme Christians do the same with their own fallenLets try to keep it to one country's jurisdiction can we...Our own.. why have they not been arrested for expressing their right to protest? I may certainly not like what they are protesting about, but we have the freedom to protest against anything, which as seen happens all the time as you protest and others do vocally against Muslims. Do you want to now deny people the right to protest
If that protesting does what you claim I do...i.e instill fear (and moreover outrage public decency) then YES. Protest that instills fear is TERRORISM...got it?
choudrey and his cronies would have been immediately arrested for the disruption they caused to christmas shoppers in london, and charged with religiously agravated harassment...but again...no.
So should we not arrest every EDL supporter every time they march into a town and create mass disruption, with pissed up idiots out with one intent to promote hate? No they have every right to protest as well, even if their views are appalling.Actually again YES they SHOULD be arrested, and for the same reasons...we DO NOT have an unconditional right to protest...The law is quite clear...we have the right to PEACEFUL protest ONLY So again your argument is selective so no its not and looks only at some who disrupt, if your issue is on any protest that incites people, then all protests that incite people should be banned or those who participate arrested, is that what you want? Again the law is clear...if the protest is NOT peaceful, it is strictly speaking illegal. Even if it is peaceful, if it is designed to fear people then it CAN and should be stopped
and the list goes ever onwards.....
sharia and the jewish equivalent courts would be banned and having anything to do with them would be a serious offense....IF we were STRICT about it.....but again no...
These courts have no power over the British law, if people choose to abide by religious beliefs, that is their choice, as long as it does not conflict with British law or any discrimination, when it does, then it should be dealt with by criminal law
your argumnents submitted above didge are actually "reductio ad absurdum" since I HAVE NOWHERE SUGGESTED ANY SUCH THING. This is of course the tactic of the liberalist (progressive) ...ANYONE who doesnt agree with their agenda is to be labeled "racist" and compared to the worst aspects of the third reich...Anything short of total surrender and sheeplike agreement is met with a barrage of nonsensical abuse...
It matters not if you have never suggested violence, what you fail to see is where such unfounded prejudice I repeat..it is NOT prejudice to refuse compromise with another culture views you promote lead to, it is repeated time and time again throughout history and still you cannot grasp that, all stemming from poor prejudice collective fallacy association arguments. You speak of agreement, what agreement, getting along with people is now wrong, how absurd. The fact is your arguments here speak of anger again, calling people sheep and as if liberals try to keep up ...I say liberalist...not liberal...but we can avoid such misunderstanding...i will use instead the term "progressive" as advised by the ill advised CONDELL are all bad, you again reek of hate not hate ...not for the "progressive....contempt....
disagreeing that multiculuralism is either the best thing since sliced bread or doubt that it is ACTUALLY working (contrary to the glazed eye belief of the progressive) is liable to render the skeptic fair target for the worst abuse possible...this is how the Iron fist of the "progressive" works
AND STILL...no one can show ANY benefit of "multiculturalism"
definition of multiculturalism... the doctrine that several different cultures (rather than one national culture) can coexist peacefully and equitably in a single country
via... http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=multiculturalism
THAT COULD NOT or indeed would not, inevitably, given TODAYS communications, be aquired some other way...
say by the SAUDI way of "multiculturalism"
You have had plenty to show that multiculturalism can work and does work again America is evidence for that, only people who do not want it to work will try their best to ensure it does not work which goes back to the point you cannot show humans do not have the capability to get along, so it is only you and others standing in the way of getting along with others, you are thus the maker of your own problem, that is the sad reality you do not see.
Not only that every argument you present is flawed, it seeks to not look at a whole position, like you did not do with killing animals, but made it selective, you do the same here with protests, again it a concept is wrong and should be made law, then all aspects mean that all fall under that remit, you cannot make a law and then be selective to groups if many incite violence
That is why each time your arguments fail they are poor guilt by associations, you offer nothing to show why it cannot work, when clearly it has worked and again America is testament to that.
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by veya_victaous Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:10 am
victorismyhero wrote:veya_victaous wrote:
the Western District
how can you claim they are not multicultural? very odd considering they have gov't sanctioned districts for different cultures that even include exclusion to their regular laws.
definition of multiculturalism... the doctrine that several different cultures (rather than one national culture) can coexist peacefully and equitably in a single country
via... http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=multiculturalism
I beleive that important word is the KEY. What saudi has is "enclaves...rather like if we built walls round certain parts of certain cities.....and only allowed passage out to do a job..
You do know in the Western district (equivalent of Chinatown in a western city) you can buy alcohol even though it is illegal elsewhere? the Saudi are quite accommodating to other cultures within the designated districts exactly...within designated districts....just as if WE allowed the sale of say halal or kosher ONLY within certain districts, or only allowed mosques within certain districts.
Propaganda (BNP racists)
https://www.bnp.org.uk/news/why-does-saudi-arabia-not-welcome-diversity
Reality (a Saudi Researcher doing a thesis on nursing in MODERN Saudi Arabia with its Highly multicultural workforce)
http://eprints.qut.edu.au/51580/1/Adel_Almutairi_Thesis.pdf
The whole Idea that Saudi Arabia is not multicultural is Ignorant to the point of stupid, as it clearly is. as it most certainly isnt...see the above They have seen the same sort of immigration (by Asians and Indians) as England or Australia, And they have had Westerners go over there for job opportunities.
Are those things illegal in England? NO they are not so they can sel them everywhere
Is Alcohol Illegal in Saudi Arabia? YES ... But they make special exception in certain areas to cater for Non-Muslims MORE than you are doing, the Uk isn't saying OK here is an enclave you can have Sharia law in. AND they still have more people from other countries than the almost entirely White UK!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population
United Kingdom 12.4% are immigrants
Saudi Arabia 31.4% are immigrants
United Arab Emirates 83.7% immigrants
You are so fucking Racist you think having one of the lowest Immigration rates makes you flooded by foreigners!!!! you Guys are funking ridiculous. Get you head around the fact that EVEN Saudi Arabia has more than Twice the number or Immigrants than the UK.
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:20 am
veya_victaous wrote:
Are those things illegal in England? NO they are not so they can sel them everywhere
Is Alcohol Illegal in Saudi Arabia? YES ... But they make special exception in certain areas to cater for Non-Muslims MORE than you are doing, the Uk isn't saying OK here is an enclave you can have Sharia law in. AND they still have more people from other countries than the almost entirely White UK!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population
United Kingdom 12.4% are immigrants
Saudi Arabia 31.4% are immigrants
United Arab Emirates 83.7% immigrants
You are so fucking Racist you think having one of the lowest Immigration rates makes you flooded by foreigners!!!! you Guys are funking ridiculous. Get you head around the fact that EVEN Saudi Arabia has more than Twice the number or Immigrants than the UK.
.....Victor.
::smthg:: ::smthg:: ::smthg::
Last edited by Catman on Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:32 am; edited 3 times in total
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:28 am
veya_victaous wrote:victorismyhero wrote:
Are those things illegal in England? NO they are not so they can sel them everywhere
Is Alcohol Illegal in Saudi Arabia? YES ... But they make special exception in certain areas to cater for Non-Muslims MORE than you are doing, the Uk isn't saying OK here is an enclave you can have Sharia law in. true...but they are busy trying to make their own.... our police have ADMITTED there ARE "no go areas" AND they still have more people from other countries than the almost entirely White UK!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population
United Kingdom 12.4% are immigrants
Saudi Arabia 31.4% are immigrants
United Arab Emirates 83.7% immigrants
You are so fucking Racist you think having one of the lowest Immigration rates makes you flooded by foreigners!!!! you Guys are funking ridiculous. Get you head around the fact that EVEN Saudi Arabia has more than Twice the number or Immigrants than the UK.
However, as I keep trying to get through to the village idiot, my argument isnt per se about what this or that group if immigrants get up to...Hell I really couldnt give a damn if they wanted to eat each other, wanted to have sex with the ducks on the pond wanted to pray to the three horned walrus of outer wherever or any other damn thing WITHIN THEIR OWN community....what I have a problem with is when their "requirement" crosses MINE...
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:31 am
catman and his favourite hobby is....... ::drnkpst:: ::drnkpst:: ::drnkpst:: ::drnkpst:: ::drnkpst::
::smthg:: ::smthg:: ::smthg::
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:35 am
Do you dress like that Victor?
I hear that they are building some new housing near Stonehenge, that will block the view of the summer solstice!
I hear that they are building some new housing near Stonehenge, that will block the view of the summer solstice!
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:46 am
Really? wont that be tragic....
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:51 am
victorismyhero wrote:Really? wont that be tragic....
http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/North-Wiltshire-MP-James-Gray-calls-Stonehenge/story-20823135-detail/story.html
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:57 am
and?
dont you have something better to do than (yet again) disrupt a thread with you idiotic stupidity.
dont you have something better to do than (yet again) disrupt a thread with you idiotic stupidity.
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by veya_victaous Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:59 am
victorismyhero wrote:veya_victaous wrote:
Are those things illegal in England? NO they are not so they can sel them everywhere
Is Alcohol Illegal in Saudi Arabia? YES ... But they make special exception in certain areas to cater for Non-Muslims MORE than you are doing, the Uk isn't saying OK here is an enclave you can have Sharia law in. true...but they are busy trying to make their own.... our police have ADMITTED there ARE "no go areas" AND they still have more people from other countries than the almost entirely White UK!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population
United Kingdom 12.4% are immigrants
Saudi Arabia 31.4% are immigrants
United Arab Emirates 83.7% immigrants
You are so fucking Racist you think having one of the lowest Immigration rates makes you flooded by foreigners!!!! you Guys are funking ridiculous. Get you head around the fact that EVEN Saudi Arabia has more than Twice the number or Immigrants than the UK.
However, as I keep trying to get through to the village idiot, my argument isnt per se about what this or that group if immigrants get up to...Hell I really couldnt give a damn if they wanted to eat each other, wanted to have sex with the ducks on the pond wanted to pray to the three horned walrus of outer wherever or any other damn thing WITHIN THEIR OWN community....what I have a problem with is when their "requirement" crosses MINE...
And they are forcing you to live under Sharia???? Oh Shit I didnt realise that such a Small percentage of the population could affect you so profoundly I mean we LITERALLY have more than twice as many here and can cope with it quite alright.
No you have no argument you are just sad and can't even stand Half the immigration as Saudi Arabia or Australia because of your Racist...
No One is stopping you Living you life as long as you leave other people alone. You are just so fucking Bullshit scared of people of different colour You cant get over the fact there are some people of different colour in England (not very many by world standards).
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:03 am
You are making some very illogical and unsubstatiated assumptions there Veya, Just like our home grown village idiot.....veya_victaous wrote:victorismyhero wrote:
However, as I keep trying to get through to the village idiot, my argument isnt per se about what this or that group if immigrants get up to...Hell I really couldnt give a damn if they wanted to eat each other, wanted to have sex with the ducks on the pond wanted to pray to the three horned walrus of outer wherever or any other damn thing WITHIN THEIR OWN community....what I have a problem with is when their "requirement" crosses MINE...
And they are forcing you to live under Sharia???? Oh Shit I didnt realise that such a Small percentage of the population could affect you so profoundly I mean we LITERALLY have more than twice as many here and can cope with it quite alright.
No you have no argument you are just sad and can't even stand Half the immigration as Saudi Arabia or Australia because of your Racist...
No One is stopping you Living you life as long as you leave other people alone. You are just so fucking Bullshit scared of people of different colour You cant get over the fact there are some people of different colour in England (not very many by world standards).
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:06 am
The world is multicultural, there is no want or need to impose this on any nation against it's wishes, as seen here in UK and elsewhere.
This is not an argument against immigration per se, but against mass immigration where the result is segregation through so called multiculturalism as masses of immigrants form their own separate enclaves and carry on how they want rather than integrate and fit in with the ways of the majority host nation.
All of this has been encouraged by previous govt pandering to their own specific 'needs', over use of translation of regular forms is a prime example.....
This is not an argument against immigration per se, but against mass immigration where the result is segregation through so called multiculturalism as masses of immigrants form their own separate enclaves and carry on how they want rather than integrate and fit in with the ways of the majority host nation.
All of this has been encouraged by previous govt pandering to their own specific 'needs', over use of translation of regular forms is a prime example.....
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by veya_victaous Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:11 am
@victor
No I have read your posts
And I can Count and understand numbers
Many of Your statements are flat out lies. You think England has serious immigration even though it is less than half what many other nations have. I can tell by the completely misguided ill-informed opinions that you read Murdoch printed rubbish.
No I have read your posts
And I can Count and understand numbers
Many of Your statements are flat out lies. You think England has serious immigration even though it is less than half what many other nations have. I can tell by the completely misguided ill-informed opinions that you read Murdoch printed rubbish.
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Irn Bru Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:13 am
Tommy Monk wrote:The world is multicultural, there is no want or need to impose this on any nation against it's wishes, as seen here in UK and elsewhere.
This is not an argument against immigration per se, but against mass immigration where the result is segregation through so called multiculturalism as masses of immigrants form their own separate enclaves and carry on how they want rather than integrate and fit in with the ways of the majority host nation.
All of this has been encouraged by previous govt pandering to their own specific 'needs', over use of translation of regular forms is a prime example.....
Who signed the Single European Act and the Maastricht Treaty that opened up our borders to uncontrolled immigration?
It wasn't Labour.
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:20 am
veya_victaous wrote:@victor
No I have read your posts
And I can Count and understand numbers wow, who would have thought it
Many of Your statements are flat out lies.(erm...how would you know that.......if you havnt read my posts??bloody hell the man is not only didge cloned, but a psychic clone too) You think England has serious immigration even though it is less than half what many other nations have. I can tell by the completely misguided ill-informed opinions that you read Murdoch printed rubbish.
that is hilarious, if ONLY because ONE thing i dont do......... is read ANY newspaper....
and STILL no one can say why challenging what is a mere concept, doubting its validity OR its utility is racist....unless of course you can understand the mind of the
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:34 am
Love this!..Love Multiculturalism!
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:45 am
Irn Bru wrote:Who signed the Single European Act and the Maastricht Treaty that opened up our borders to uncontrolled immigration?Tommy Monk wrote:The world is multicultural, there is no want or need to impose this on any nation against it's wishes, as seen here in UK and elsewhere.
This is not an argument against immigration per se, but against mass immigration where the result is segregation through so called multiculturalism as masses of immigrants form their own separate enclaves and carry on how they want rather than integrate and fit in with the ways of the majority host nation.
All of this has been encouraged by previous govt pandering to their own specific 'needs', over use of translation of regular forms is a prime example.....
It wasn't Labour.
It wasn't, but the mass immigration was happening throughout labour govt from everywhere in the world, and labour opened the door to unlimited east EU immigration too when further controls could have been imposed as they were by other EU countries.
But beside the point to try to attribute partisan blame, this doesn't get away from the substance of my post and points.
I blame Tory for installing the taps and labour for opening them up full blast!
ALL DONE AGAINST THE WILL OF THE BRITISH PEOPLE!
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by veya_victaous Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:26 am
victorismyhero wrote:veya_victaous wrote:@victor
No I have read your posts
And I can Count and understand numbers wow, who would have thought it
Many of Your statements are flat out lies.(erm...how would you know that.......if you havnt read my posts??bloody hell the man is not only didge cloned, but a psychic clone too) You think England has serious immigration even though it is less than half what many other nations have. I can tell by the completely misguided ill-informed opinions that you read Murdoch printed rubbish.
that is hilarious, if ONLY because ONE thing i dont do......... is read ANY newspaper....
and STILL no one can say why challenging what is a mere concept, doubting its validity OR its utility is racist....unless of course you can understand the mind of theliberalistprogressive
I have read your post where does it suggest I have not read them
You don't even know the concept of Multiculturalism!! because you use the UK as an example of a multicultural nation and You said the Saudi Arabia isn't a multicultural nation, when it is TWICE as multicultural as the UK.
THE UK DOES NOT HAVE MASS MIGRATION... THAT IS THE FACT OF IT
IT ACTUALLY HAS ONE OF THE LOWER LEVELS OF IMMIGRATION.
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:40 am
victorismyhero wrote:Didge wrote:
Nobody has denied hate was a great part of American history, but that was not the multicultural part, Talk about selective blindness....and selective definition... so the destruction of the american indian culture (the host culture) BY the incomming european culture wasnt a result of multiculturalism gone wrong...now why does that NOT surprise me?? if it doesnt suit your agenda, it aint so....you are well and truely rumbled didge.....the mass immigration of the late 19th and 20 century was, so again has it worked, very much so, because even then just like you are today the cultural pessimist you are many feared the immigrants all coming and treated them with disdain, but within decades, that changed.
So again you really are utterly clueless on history, I suggest some evening classes, or to actually read a book might help
://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/:
Thank you for proving what an idiot you are:
multiculturalism
A characteristic of a society that has many different ethnic or national cultures mingling freely. It can also refer to political or social policies which support or encourage such a coexistence.
Which is what built America from the 19th and 20th centuries onwards, showing again you are a bit of a thick idiot Victor but thanks for proving that:
What is Multiculturalism and What Has It Been?
The position that probably sparked the development of what we might today term multicultural awareness and perspective was that of tolerance. That is, earlier settlers would suffer the habits and cultures of immigrants new to the United States until they assimilated into the society in place when they arrived and were accustomed to the norms of roles and behavior. This, of course, excluded Native Americans since such an attitude would have required Europeans to adjust to the culture of whichever tribe lived in the particular area being settled at a given time. Tolerance of the Native American population came in limited amounts for those "heathens" who adopted the Christian faith and agreed to live among the "civilized" Europeans.
This attitude of tolerance is not what we would call a multicultural one today, but that is because it has undergone several generations of evolution to reach the goal and perspective to which most multiculturalists currently strive. Nonetheless, it is the idea that people already in the United States should give new immigrants a chance to get used to their new country that has allowed a more welcoming attitude to develop. Unfortunately, not all people living in the Americas held such views. Thus, new immigrants have and do face virulent ethnic and racial bias. Because the majority (80%) of early immigration (1820-1880) to the United States was from northwestern Europe, specifically Great Britain, Ireland and Germany, it was possible for these people to assimilate into the culture "seamlessly" within one or two generations. The next wave of immigration (1881-1920) brought people from southern and eastern Europe, especially from Italy and Austria-Hungary. While these groups were considered inferior to the Anglo-Saxon idealized in Great Britain and Germany, and it took them longer to establish themselves as citizens in the United States, it still took only one to three generations for these groups to make themselves a comfortable home in the US. Those groups constituting these first two waves of immigration to the US managed to do so with relative ease. There was an ebb in immigration for approximately 30 years just before the Great Depression through World War II (1921-1950), which was then followed (1951-1970) by an increase in immigration from a much greater variety of countries, including Canada, Mexico and China, as well as immigrants from islands in the Caribbean. This period was marked by the development of immigration reform laws as well as an increase in the size of a population of people who could not so easily assimilate into the society in place in the US because of racial differences.
Last edited by Didge on Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:51 am
victorismyhero wrote:That is blatant misrepresentation...why does my NOT wanting to have to accept any part of anothers culture instill fear?? they must be VERY sensitive and feel VERY weak if THAT fears them???
Again thank you for proving again it is you that is the issue and not the many majority of people, busted
If that protesting does what you claim I do...i.e instill fear (and moreover outrage public decency) then YES. Protest that instills fear is TERRORISM...got it?
://?roflmao?/:
So to you the EDL are terrorists, the Miner strikes by your logic was conducted by terrorists, the student protests were conducted by terrorist, seriously what an idiot
Actually again YES they SHOULD be arrested, and for the same reasons...we DO NOT have an unconditional right to protest...The law is quite clear...we have the right to PEACEFUL protest ONLY Again the law is clear...if the protest is NOT peaceful, it is strictly speaking illegal. Even if it is peaceful, if it is designed to fear people then it CAN and should be stopped
So to you the EDL are terrorists, the Miner strikes by your logic was conducted by terrorists, the student protests were conducted by terrorist, seriously what an idiot. So just about every protest we have falls under the stupid remit of the idiot Victor
I repeat..it is NOT prejudice to refuse compromise with another culture
Yes it is a prejudice, because you see that culture as the enemy, not something that is compatiable with your world views, thus busted again.
disagreeing that multiculuralism is either the best thing since sliced bread or doubt that it is ACTUALLY working (contrary to the glazed eye belief of the progressive) is liable to render the skeptic fair target for the worst abuse possible...this is how the Iron fist of the "progressive" works
Dear me and yet you cannot prove it is bad for a nation other than to use lame guilt by associations, of which mainly are directed in regards to Muslims
AND STILL...no one can show ANY benefit of "multiculturalism"
In your idiotic opinion they have not when they have, you just refused to accept the views promoted, that is you again being the issue, again you cannot show that it does not benefit
definition of multiculturalism... the doctrine that several different cultures (rather than one national culture) can coexist peacefully and equitably in a single country
via... http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=multiculturalism
mul·ti·cul·tur·al·ism [muhl-tee-kuhl-cher-uh-liz-uhm, muhl-tahy-] Show IPA
noun
1.
the state or condition of being multicultural.
2.
the preservation of different cultures or cultural identities within a unified society, as a state or nation.
THAT COULD NOT or indeed would not, inevitably, given TODAYS communications, be aquired some other
You have had plenty to show that multiculturalism can work and does work again America is evidence for that, only people who do not want it to work will try their best to ensure it does not work which goes back to the point you cannot show humans do not have the capability to get along, so it is only you and others standing in the way of getting along with others, you are thus the maker of your own problem, that is the sad reality you do not see.
Not only that every argument you present is flawed, it seeks to not look at a whole position, like you did not do with killing animals, but made it selective, you do the same here with protests, again it a concept is wrong and should be made law, then all aspects mean that all fall under that remit, you cannot make a law and then be selective to groups if many incite violence
That is why each time your arguments fail they are poor guilt by associations, you offer nothing to show why it cannot work, when clearly it has worked and again America is testament to that.
As seen no answer to the above, showing again Victor uses arguments of hate and is clearly again an idiot, I see his response get less and less as we go along showing he cannot prove it does not work and only argument he has is he does not want it to work
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:57 am
So again no argument to say all humans are not capable of getting along with each other, thus those against doing so are clearly prejudice and do not want to evolve
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:18 am
Didge wrote:So again no argument to say all humans are not capable of getting along with each other, thus those against doing so are clearly prejudice and do not want to evolve
Well, no matter how much we can all show how caring everybody is capable of being, and I agree it's a lovely thought, we have thousands of years of history which shows some pretty horrendous things.
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:42 am
Morning Andy
Many things are achievable, and whilst we have plenty of war in that history we also have plenty showing humans also getting along from different ethnic groups.
The reality is in regards to this argument flawed from those who are prejudiced and also hypocritical because they also go against many morals they no doubt have themselves, because humanity is again biologically one race, so to make associations due to cultures is moot to say the least because everyone is not the same.
Why morally the argument is also flawed is that many of us grow up learning to share with others as children and we also pass this on but as adults in the case of Victor who thinks he had the right to deny people the right to share the land he lives in shows that he goes against the very principle he no doubt taught his own children. We teach to share but as seen here he does not want to share the land of which he was only born onto, which does not give him the right to deny others solely on such a poor conception he has the right to decide who can live on a mass of land he does not own. We castigate a child that does not share his toys as we do not want our children to grow up being spoilt brats, but that is what Victor is actually being, a spoilt little brat, with no right to deny others the right to live along side him. Thus he contradicts no doubt morals he taught his own children, because it is one the of the fundamental things we teach children.
Thus those that wish to deny people a right to live here are nothing but spoilt brats, as they only care for their only selfish needs and do not seek or care for others. Luckily many of our youth are growing up alongside people of different ethnic groups which is breaking these poor stereotypes placed upon them by the older generation and that is something to be proud of.
Many things are achievable, and whilst we have plenty of war in that history we also have plenty showing humans also getting along from different ethnic groups.
The reality is in regards to this argument flawed from those who are prejudiced and also hypocritical because they also go against many morals they no doubt have themselves, because humanity is again biologically one race, so to make associations due to cultures is moot to say the least because everyone is not the same.
Why morally the argument is also flawed is that many of us grow up learning to share with others as children and we also pass this on but as adults in the case of Victor who thinks he had the right to deny people the right to share the land he lives in shows that he goes against the very principle he no doubt taught his own children. We teach to share but as seen here he does not want to share the land of which he was only born onto, which does not give him the right to deny others solely on such a poor conception he has the right to decide who can live on a mass of land he does not own. We castigate a child that does not share his toys as we do not want our children to grow up being spoilt brats, but that is what Victor is actually being, a spoilt little brat, with no right to deny others the right to live along side him. Thus he contradicts no doubt morals he taught his own children, because it is one the of the fundamental things we teach children.
Thus those that wish to deny people a right to live here are nothing but spoilt brats, as they only care for their only selfish needs and do not seek or care for others. Luckily many of our youth are growing up alongside people of different ethnic groups which is breaking these poor stereotypes placed upon them by the older generation and that is something to be proud of.
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:48 am
You'd think the massive majority of people are against war - I can't imagine that not being the case.
How come the very few manage to cause wars - how do they get away with it??
How come the very few manage to cause wars - how do they get away with it??
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:54 am
Easy, Blair got away with it when many of the nation was against a war with Iraq.
Again war should only ever be a last resort and to want war, then there is something fundamentally wrong with you.
Again war should only ever be a last resort and to want war, then there is something fundamentally wrong with you.
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:58 am
Didge wrote:Easy, Blair got away with it when many of the nation was against a war with Iraq.
Again war should only ever be a last resort and to want war, then there is something fundamentally wrong with you.
The only mistake Blair and Bush made was they missed Iran off the list.
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:00 am
Really?
So you are one to advocate for war, when again war should only be a last resort, so we now know how you view things.
Iraq has caused devastation and instability in the country for years to come, about the worst action taken by the West, which will leave resentment for years to come
So you are one to advocate for war, when again war should only be a last resort, so we now know how you view things.
Iraq has caused devastation and instability in the country for years to come, about the worst action taken by the West, which will leave resentment for years to come
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:03 am
Didge wrote:Really?
So you are one to advocate for war, when again war should only be a last resort, so we now know how you view things.
Iraq has caused devastation and instability in the country for years to come, about the worst action taken by the West, which will leave resentment for years to come
I think the few thousand related to those who have died will say that - the rest and all the people I spoke to on the streets were very welcoming of the British forces (I was there in the last few years so got a good appreciation of what the people felt near the end).
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:06 am
Are they?
Yes they were happy to see Saddam go, but not to be occupied for years to come and I know people from Iraq to and many resent what happened. Saddam needed to go but the way it was instigated left bad felling with many, if anything it should have been Arab nations and Iraq's taking the lead themselves with support from the west, like the same happened in Libya
Yes they were happy to see Saddam go, but not to be occupied for years to come and I know people from Iraq to and many resent what happened. Saddam needed to go but the way it was instigated left bad felling with many, if anything it should have been Arab nations and Iraq's taking the lead themselves with support from the west, like the same happened in Libya
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:46 am
Didge wrote:smelly_bandit wrote:The trc was held after apartheid
So not really sure how it ended anything when it didn't exist
Well I do love someone who hates the fact it was don to the forgiveness and reconciliation of Mandela that brought about the end of apartheid, I know it kills you to hear that ha ha ha ha
and how was that possible when Mandela was still in prison during apartheid??
how is it that he forgave and was reconciled with a regime that he vowed to fight till his dying breath while it was still in power??
you are effective saying that Mandela sold out his beliefs
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:37 am
smelly_bandit wrote:Didge wrote:
Well I do love someone who hates the fact it was don to the forgiveness and reconciliation of Mandela that brought about the end of apartheid, I know it kills you to hear that ha ha ha ha
and how was that possible when Mandela was still in prison during apartheid??
how is it that he forgave and was reconciled with a regime that he vowed to fight till his dying breath while it was still in power??
you are effective saying that Mandela sold out his beliefs
Easy he was released in 1990, negotiations started in 1990, secret ones before that.
Mandela will be remembered as a man who went beyond the call of duty. He showed his fellow countrymen that it was possible — perhaps even imperative — to forgive one's enemies. Mandela led by example, inspiring South Africa's political and racial rivals to work together to build a democracy. Mandela was such a powerful leader during apartheid that the white minority government considered him a threat to the state, even from prison.
Mandela was already plotting his return. From prison, he'd begun talks with the government on forming a multi-racial democracy. In 1990, President FW De Klerk addressed South Africa's parliament with words the world had been waiting to hear for more than a quarter of a century:
So tell what retributions did he seek to those who were part of Apartheid smelly when he was elected President?
DOH
Look more examples:
At the heart of Nelson Mandela’s legacy: forgiveness
If you doubt that, imagine for a moment a different scenario. Imagine a Nelson Mandela who came out of prison after 27 years — much of it spent at hard labor and in isolation upon an inhospitable rock called Robben Island — and seethed with fury. Imagine a Mandela who sought revenge against a white minority government that branded him a terrorist and stole so much of his life for the “crime” of wanting, and fighting, to be free. Imagine a Mandela who used the force of his legend and his moral authority to do what that government had long feared he would: issue a war cry, set black against white. The waters of the South Atlantic Ocean might still be running red.
Now, consider what actually did happen:
Mandela forgave. He forgave the government that segregated him to the margins of society and made him an outsider in his own country. He forgave the jailers who tried to break his body and spirit during his long incarceration. He forgave his country for hating him.
Not only that: When he completed his remarkable rise from South African “terrorist” under the apartheid regime to South African president in a new multiracial democracy, he made it a point to reach out and reassure nervous whites that they still had a place in the new nation now taking shape. And then there was the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/latest-columns/20131209-at-the-heart-of-nelson-mandelas-legacy-forgiveness.ece
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:46 am
I did like the pictures of the people he was with, i think it was two terrorists and two dictators of their time, perhaps you can judge a man by the company he keeps.
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:50 am
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:I did like the pictures of the people he was with, i think it was two terrorists and two dictators of their time, perhaps you can judge a man by the company he keeps.
Or by the fact again:
Mandela forgave. He forgave the government that segregated him to the margins of society and made him an outsider in his own country. He forgave the jailers who tried to break his body and spirit during his long incarceration. He forgave his country for hating him.
Not only that: When he completed his remarkable rise from South African “terrorist” under the apartheid regime to South African president in a new multiracial democracy, he made it a point to reach out and reassure nervous whites that they still had a place in the new nation now taking shape. And then there was the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
I wonder how well you would fare living the conditions black people did under apartheid and then spend 27 years in Jail come out and forgive those who were instruments of apartheid and reconcile the nation.
Hence why he is hailed as a great man, he could have turn the nation to what the whites did to role reverse apartheid, he didn't, instead he wanted quality for all ethnic groups
Guest- Guest
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