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About Us & RulesIf you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
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If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:04 pm
First topic message reminder :
If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
Living in a mixed area makes us more tolerant, not less, studies show. That fact must be part of the immigration debate
Passive tolerance is probably not a concept many people have yet heard of. Let's hope that changes, because "passive tolerance" is the most hopeful bit of academic social psychology research to emerge in a long time. It is the idea that simply living in an area of high diversity rubs off on you, making you more tolerant of ethnic diversity.
Think of all those tiny interactions between different ethnic groups on an average British city street: the newsagent, the corner shop, the delivery driver, the postman, friends laughing, children playing, a pair of lovers. This is what generates passive tolerance. You don't have to be part of the interaction yourself; just witnessing it is enough to have a significant impact – comparable to the effect passive smoking has on your health, hence the term passive tolerance.
This is the finding of seven studies carried out over 10 years in the United States, Europe and South Africa, led by a team of social psychologists at the University of Oxford and published in the journal of the United States National Academy of Sciences. They were careful to rule out the most obvious explanation for their finding, social psychologists Miles Hewstone and Katharina Schmid explain – namely, that the higher levels of tolerance in more diverse neighbourhoods are a result of more tolerant people choosing to live there. Two of the studies were conducted over several years and tracked the same individuals, showing how attitudes changed. Even prejudiced people showed a greater degree of tolerance over time if they lived in a mixed neighbourhood.
The study's positive message is reinforced by the finding of a separate study led by the same Oxford team – the biggest to date in England on diversity and trust. White British people were asked whether they felt ethnic minorities threatened their way of life, increased crime levels, or took their jobs; ethnic minority participants were asked the same questions. Both groups were then asked about how they interact with other groups in everyday situations, such as corner shops, and then about how much they trusted people from their own and other ethnic groups in their neighbourhood. What the study found was that distrust does rise in diverse communities, but day to day, direct contact cancels it out.
The two studies together point to a more optimistic reading of how diversity impacts on urban neighbourhoods.
The reason passive tolerance is politically so important is not hard to see. Sociology and social psychology have frequently been drafted in to the highly charged political debate about community, integration and multiculturalism. Key concepts and ideas take hold in the political sphere and become a rationale for policy. The danger is that oft-quoted ideas can become self-fulfilling. Perhaps the most influential in this area has been US sociologist Professor Robert Putnam, who said diversity has a negative impact on social capital, leading to people "hunkering down", and trust in strangers and neighbourhoods dropping significantly. "Hunkering down" has become a widely quoted phrase as a respectable way for liberals to articulate their growing concern in an increasingly toxic political debate on immigration.
The problematic issue for the left is that lower levels of trust have been linked to declining support for the welfare state. The theory is that if you are less likely to trust the people around you, you are less willing to have a sense of solidarity and so less likely to stump up the taxes to pay for other people's benefits.
The author David Goodhart, for instance, has seized upon Putnam's "hunkering down thesis as vindication of the controversial position he holds has long advanced. He routinely invokes Putnam to argue that the pace and scale of increasing diversity in the UK has been too great and, as he said in a recent interview, people "become less willing to share resources and do the things we require of people in a modern welfare state". The left faces a nasty conundrum as two of its most sacred shibboleths come into conflict: ethnic diversity and the solidarity necessary for a strong welfare state.
This new research throws these conclusions into question. Putnam's work may, after all, have been misleading. In fact, rather than hunkering down, living in a mixed neighbourhood helps you open up. In some ways this vindicates many people's anecdotal experience of their own enjoyment of diversity in their neighbourhoods, and the sense that the most pronounced fear and prejudice is found in exclusively white areas.
The research also vindicates the case for local initiatives to foster social exchange and build community relationships. From carnivals to coffee mornings, jumble sales to fun days in the park – all these are opportunities to generate passive tolerance. Sadly, however, many of these initiatives have fallen victim to local authority funding cuts. The impact of austerity has been compounded by a loss of confidence – in which Putnam's research played its part – about fostering strong diverse communities. Multiculturalism has fallen from favour, misunderstood and maligned as the set of ideas that guided community relations for a generation.
No one was more acutely aware of this danger than Putnam himself when he talked to me on the publication of his research in 2007, the timing made the danger all the more acute in the aftermath of 7/7 bombings. Since then the theme of integration has come to dominate – with its coercive and conformist overtones. The result has been a yawning gap with no positive narrative for the fast-changing diversity of Britain's urban life.
The hope is that this academic research will percolate into policy and public life, inspiring confidence again that strong diverse communities are not only possible, but can also work as beacons, converting residents and visitors alike to a possibility of rich exchange.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/16/passive-tolerance-beacon-hope-diverse-communities
Always said, live with people and the fear goes. If you don't mix you build up a bogey man in your head that simply doesn't exist in fact.
If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
Living in a mixed area makes us more tolerant, not less, studies show. That fact must be part of the immigration debate
Passive tolerance is probably not a concept many people have yet heard of. Let's hope that changes, because "passive tolerance" is the most hopeful bit of academic social psychology research to emerge in a long time. It is the idea that simply living in an area of high diversity rubs off on you, making you more tolerant of ethnic diversity.
Think of all those tiny interactions between different ethnic groups on an average British city street: the newsagent, the corner shop, the delivery driver, the postman, friends laughing, children playing, a pair of lovers. This is what generates passive tolerance. You don't have to be part of the interaction yourself; just witnessing it is enough to have a significant impact – comparable to the effect passive smoking has on your health, hence the term passive tolerance.
This is the finding of seven studies carried out over 10 years in the United States, Europe and South Africa, led by a team of social psychologists at the University of Oxford and published in the journal of the United States National Academy of Sciences. They were careful to rule out the most obvious explanation for their finding, social psychologists Miles Hewstone and Katharina Schmid explain – namely, that the higher levels of tolerance in more diverse neighbourhoods are a result of more tolerant people choosing to live there. Two of the studies were conducted over several years and tracked the same individuals, showing how attitudes changed. Even prejudiced people showed a greater degree of tolerance over time if they lived in a mixed neighbourhood.
The study's positive message is reinforced by the finding of a separate study led by the same Oxford team – the biggest to date in England on diversity and trust. White British people were asked whether they felt ethnic minorities threatened their way of life, increased crime levels, or took their jobs; ethnic minority participants were asked the same questions. Both groups were then asked about how they interact with other groups in everyday situations, such as corner shops, and then about how much they trusted people from their own and other ethnic groups in their neighbourhood. What the study found was that distrust does rise in diverse communities, but day to day, direct contact cancels it out.
The two studies together point to a more optimistic reading of how diversity impacts on urban neighbourhoods.
The reason passive tolerance is politically so important is not hard to see. Sociology and social psychology have frequently been drafted in to the highly charged political debate about community, integration and multiculturalism. Key concepts and ideas take hold in the political sphere and become a rationale for policy. The danger is that oft-quoted ideas can become self-fulfilling. Perhaps the most influential in this area has been US sociologist Professor Robert Putnam, who said diversity has a negative impact on social capital, leading to people "hunkering down", and trust in strangers and neighbourhoods dropping significantly. "Hunkering down" has become a widely quoted phrase as a respectable way for liberals to articulate their growing concern in an increasingly toxic political debate on immigration.
The problematic issue for the left is that lower levels of trust have been linked to declining support for the welfare state. The theory is that if you are less likely to trust the people around you, you are less willing to have a sense of solidarity and so less likely to stump up the taxes to pay for other people's benefits.
The author David Goodhart, for instance, has seized upon Putnam's "hunkering down thesis as vindication of the controversial position he holds has long advanced. He routinely invokes Putnam to argue that the pace and scale of increasing diversity in the UK has been too great and, as he said in a recent interview, people "become less willing to share resources and do the things we require of people in a modern welfare state". The left faces a nasty conundrum as two of its most sacred shibboleths come into conflict: ethnic diversity and the solidarity necessary for a strong welfare state.
This new research throws these conclusions into question. Putnam's work may, after all, have been misleading. In fact, rather than hunkering down, living in a mixed neighbourhood helps you open up. In some ways this vindicates many people's anecdotal experience of their own enjoyment of diversity in their neighbourhoods, and the sense that the most pronounced fear and prejudice is found in exclusively white areas.
The research also vindicates the case for local initiatives to foster social exchange and build community relationships. From carnivals to coffee mornings, jumble sales to fun days in the park – all these are opportunities to generate passive tolerance. Sadly, however, many of these initiatives have fallen victim to local authority funding cuts. The impact of austerity has been compounded by a loss of confidence – in which Putnam's research played its part – about fostering strong diverse communities. Multiculturalism has fallen from favour, misunderstood and maligned as the set of ideas that guided community relations for a generation.
No one was more acutely aware of this danger than Putnam himself when he talked to me on the publication of his research in 2007, the timing made the danger all the more acute in the aftermath of 7/7 bombings. Since then the theme of integration has come to dominate – with its coercive and conformist overtones. The result has been a yawning gap with no positive narrative for the fast-changing diversity of Britain's urban life.
The hope is that this academic research will percolate into policy and public life, inspiring confidence again that strong diverse communities are not only possible, but can also work as beacons, converting residents and visitors alike to a possibility of rich exchange.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/16/passive-tolerance-beacon-hope-diverse-communities
Always said, live with people and the fear goes. If you don't mix you build up a bogey man in your head that simply doesn't exist in fact.
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:03 pm
Didge wrote:Hilarious, nothing to back hiis absurd claims, all based upon his own prejudice views, pot...kettle thw worst being he kills animals and then moans about others who kill animals to eatdidge the liar and false attributer...its not the killing...its the MEANS...and all you can do is make up emotive rubbish... making him the biggest hypocrit going, making YOU the biggest fool going..this is not a debate,too right and it was You who reduced it thus... but a child throwing his dummy out who avoids my points countless posts, uttely pathetic.
So now he cannot even answer in regards to where his own culture comes from, even funnier also denier the many cultures that have influenced are own, thus this nation has thrived from the influence of Multi cultures.
I am well aware of where my culture came from, and the many influences on it over the CENTURIES....However there has NEVER, untill recent times been the concept of "multiculturalism" there has been invasion and IMPOSITION of culture, there has been the introduction of new ideas which the existing populace thought was an andvantage..(perhaps the introduction of iron to bronze age culture...or a different way of making something)
Never. until christianity was forced upon the population by leaders being converted, (and the Christians aggression allowed full reign) has there been a TOP down enforcement of one culture on another by the resident culture
So we now know he discriminates against women, just because he does not like their dress False attribution...LIAR, discriminates against the disabled with speech,False attribution...LIAR kills animals, yet claims his way is more humane,which is demonstrably true when in both the animal has no rights,Animal "rights" are for the simplistic child...respect for the animal in not causing unnecessay suffering is the proper approach showing he does not realise when he renders his own arguments moot
and for all your bleating about this you have stated...clearly...THAT YOU DONT CARE HOW THE ANIMAL IS TREATED AND KILLED...Just WHO is the hypocrite??
Sorry I gave you too much credit, you are as clueless as smelly
actually I recon YOU are the clueless one... For all i disagree with smell on most things...at least he is consistant
Let me know when you actually have some valid answers and if you think our culture did not stem from others, you are as I suspect very thick mate
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:16 pm
More throwing his dummy out and not once has he provided any shred of evidence it is utterly pathetic.
I prove his emotive utterly absurd view on Halal and Kosher are contradicted, based purely on the fact he supports inhumane treatment to animals, because he kills them himself, it does not get any funnier than that when an idiot shows complete double standards
So now where does his culture stem from if not an influence from the Romans, Celts, Jutes, Saxons, Normans, Angles, Vikings etc, are they not different cultures, thus multi cultures, showing he fails to see the fact his own argument is again utterly absurd.
Victor all your views are based upon association fallacies and prejudice, simple as that, you fail to back any with evidence, you discriminate off the back off a dislike you have formed again from the fact mainly if they are Muslims
I do not care how the animal is killed, because to claim as such would make me a hypocrite to the welfare of the animal, because I eat meat, and thus cease to have a right to any claim on humane views to animals, because I have no issue with its rights taken away so I can eat it, this is why you are utterly clueless.
The fact I thank you are not the majority view shared in this nation is a blessing, you can keep your prejudice views and stay full of hate and have a wasted life.
I prove his emotive utterly absurd view on Halal and Kosher are contradicted, based purely on the fact he supports inhumane treatment to animals, because he kills them himself, it does not get any funnier than that when an idiot shows complete double standards
So now where does his culture stem from if not an influence from the Romans, Celts, Jutes, Saxons, Normans, Angles, Vikings etc, are they not different cultures, thus multi cultures, showing he fails to see the fact his own argument is again utterly absurd.
Victor all your views are based upon association fallacies and prejudice, simple as that, you fail to back any with evidence, you discriminate off the back off a dislike you have formed again from the fact mainly if they are Muslims
I do not care how the animal is killed, because to claim as such would make me a hypocrite to the welfare of the animal, because I eat meat, and thus cease to have a right to any claim on humane views to animals, because I have no issue with its rights taken away so I can eat it, this is why you are utterly clueless.
The fact I thank you are not the majority view shared in this nation is a blessing, you can keep your prejudice views and stay full of hate and have a wasted life.
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:21 pm
Didge wrote:Pain and Suffering
Many animals endure prolonged, painful deaths when they are injured but not killed by hunters. A study of 80 radio-collared white-tailed deer found that of the 22 deer who had been shot with “traditional archery equipment,” 11 were wounded but not recovered by hunters.(7) Twenty percent of foxes who have been wounded by hunters are shot again. Just 10 percent manage to escape, but “starvation is a likely fate” for them, according to one veterinarian.(A South Dakota Department of Game, Fish and Parks biologist estimates that more than 3 million wounded ducks go “unretrieved” every year.(9) A British study of deer hunting found that 11 percent of deer who’d been killed by hunters died only after being shot two or more times and that some wounded deer suffered for more than 15 minutes before dying.(10)
Hunting disrupts migration and hibernation patterns and destroys families. For animals such as wolves, who mate for life and live in close-knit family units, hunting can devastate entire communities. The stress that hunted animals suffer—caused by fear and the inescapable loud noises and other commotion that hunters create—also severely compromises their normal eating habits, making it hard for them to store the fat and energy that they need in order to survive the winter.
Read more: http://www.peta.org/issues/wildlife/wildlife-factsheets/sport-hunting-cruel-unnecessary/#ixzz2wQbrJp8q
hence why he renders his own argument on halal as bollocks, as hunting is the least humane
trust didge the liar, twister and idiot to use a PROPAGANDA page from of all places PETA ://?roflmao?/:
Not only THAT but its an american page, talking about american hunting...WITH BOWS
what sort of an idiot have I engaged here....
Talk about association fallacy,,,THIS is aclassic example of the idiots OWN favourite expression
Just to educate an idiot...because I cant bear to see someone look such a fool...
firstly BOW HUNTING is, quite rightly...ILLEGAL in the UK.
we dont hunt wolves
we dont generally make noise whilst hunting...it scares off the prey..
we dont have 3 million ducks to shoot...so we tend to make sure of those we do...
Note the supposed british study on DEER...which isnt referenced EXCEPT on websites belonging to "animal rights" groups, so its provenance is dubious..
Yes sometimes a second shot is necessary...nearly always within seconds. As to taking 15 mins of suffering that is nonsense...NO "decent" hunter would permit that...THAT is alluding to someone standing there watching it happen...There may be the very odd sadist about I suppose, but there are examples of THAT sort within the commercial slaughter brigade.
Why would anyone do that...you have just shot the deer once...you have the means to finish the job if you didnt get it with first shot...why stand around for 15 mins. ridiculous...and doubless a fabrication for PETA which is well KNOWN for its less than credible emotive rubbish.
Using Peta as a source is like using islamwatch as a source or using hopenothate ALL have an axe to grind, and neither is reliable...
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:24 pm
considering the above
no double standards from me...I care about how my meat is produced...YOU dont....and yet bleat about hunting being "inhumane." two faced liar you are clueless...and a coward...
abdicate all concern ..its easier that way isnt it didge...just "dont care" then you recon you dont have to defend your stance....
you are simply false, shallow and gutless...
good day to you sir...
no double standards from me...I care about how my meat is produced...YOU dont....and yet bleat about hunting being "inhumane." two faced liar you are clueless...and a coward...
abdicate all concern ..its easier that way isnt it didge...just "dont care" then you recon you dont have to defend your stance....
you are simply false, shallow and gutless...
good day to you sir...
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:27 pm
Hilarious and misses the point with the article giving examples around the word and missed the one that reference the UK:
A British study of deer hunting found that 11 percent of deer who’d been killed by hunters died only after being shot two or more times and that some wounded deer suffered for more than 15 minutes before dying
Epic fail again, seriously I am laughing at how utterly embarrresing you are making yourself look now.
Halal and Kosher, one quick throat cut.
Hunting deer, multiple shots in many cases, thus making the animal suffer and he claims this is more huamane
://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/:
So still no evidence, where he constantly contradicts himself, shows double standards over killing animals, fails to even understand he is taking their right away to exist anyway, rendering his view moot, discriminates against Muslims, not as an individual, but over again guilt by association to what some do ignoring the many criminals who are British, discriminates against women to how they dress, discriminates against a person becoming a doctor with a speech impediment, of which there are such doctors, making him on every level prejudice.
My arguments were to prove you are prejudiced and it was easily proven
Now show me how this country did not benefit from the many cultures that came to this country?
Take your time, or is it going to be more dummy throwing and stamping your feet?
A British study of deer hunting found that 11 percent of deer who’d been killed by hunters died only after being shot two or more times and that some wounded deer suffered for more than 15 minutes before dying
Epic fail again, seriously I am laughing at how utterly embarrresing you are making yourself look now.
Halal and Kosher, one quick throat cut.
Hunting deer, multiple shots in many cases, thus making the animal suffer and he claims this is more huamane
://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/:
So still no evidence, where he constantly contradicts himself, shows double standards over killing animals, fails to even understand he is taking their right away to exist anyway, rendering his view moot, discriminates against Muslims, not as an individual, but over again guilt by association to what some do ignoring the many criminals who are British, discriminates against women to how they dress, discriminates against a person becoming a doctor with a speech impediment, of which there are such doctors, making him on every level prejudice.
My arguments were to prove you are prejudiced and it was easily proven
Now show me how this country did not benefit from the many cultures that came to this country?
Take your time, or is it going to be more dummy throwing and stamping your feet?
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Tommy Monk Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:04 pm
Thought this thread was about multiculturalism.....
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:13 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:Thought this thread was about multiculturalism.....
seems didge has disrupted it
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:19 pm
Didge wrote:Hilarious and misses the point with the article giving examples around the word and missed the one that reference the UK:
A British study of deer hunting found that 11 percent of deer who’d been killed by hunters died only after being shot two or more times and that some wounded deer suffered for more than 15 minutes before dying
Epic fail again, seriously I am laughing at how utterly embarrresing you are making yourself look now.
Halal and Kosher, one quick throat cut.
and upto 4 mins of suffering bleeding to death....and NO...I dont have to prove that...YOU have to prove the converse
Hunting deer, multiple shots in many cases, thus making the animal suffer and he claims this is more huamane
://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/:
Erm perhaps yop had better learn to read.....being as how I did reference the deer shooting in UK. and refute your points....you are a liar..
So still no evidence, where he constantly contradicts himself, shows double standards over killing animals,YOU fail to show ANY double standards...and offer hearsay as evidence..since you most certainly have never expereced a slaughter house...let alone a working farm) fails to even understand he is taking their right away to exist anyway,(So you repeat your childish emotive codswallop.proving once again what a weakling you are...the fwuffy bunny has a "right to exist"...what utter nonsense...you are sounding more and more like a christian fundamentalist...ALF type twit...) rendering his view moot, discriminates against Muslims, not as an individual, but over again guilt by association to what some do ignoring the many criminals who are British, discriminates against women to how they dress, discriminates against a person becoming a doctor with a speech impediment, of which there are such doctors, ( again you twist what I say, in a desperate attempt to lie your way out of your failure..you fail to mention the WHOLE truth....of what I said...making you a two faced prat) making him on every level prejudice.
My arguments were to prove you are prejudiced and it was easily proven
dont talk tosh you are the one using weak and ridiculous sources...\peta indeed, the most disreputable society in the US ans second only to our RSPCA in double standards...still thats what you deal in isnt it...double standards....I mean...YOU dont care do you, how the animal your meat is sourced from is grown transported and treated. Two faced git.
Now show me how this country did not benefit from the many cultures that came to this country?
Take your time, or is it going to be more dummy throwing and stamping your feet?
methinks YOU are the one throwing dummies...constantly....since your whole argument is built on false attribution and lies....
as to the benefit or not of other cultures...I believe I have already answered that POINT.....
SO JUST TO REITERATE for the intellectually challenged....those influxes of other cultures were either invasion OR general and casual aquisition of new ideas from the few travelling strangers that historically existed. Therefore this cannot be considered "multiculturalism" (see definition below) only ONCE aside from invasion, was a new culture enforced TOP DOWN by the rulers of an existing culture UPON THAT EXISTING CULTURE, and that was when the ruling people of britain decided to "convert" to christianity. The brutality of the new emerging "christian priesthood" in enforcing that cultural change is well recorded. Moreover even if we consider the many waves of invaders that have been here, cultural differences were in general slight, even the Norman invasion and takeover was not THAT great a CULTURAL shock since the saxons and normans were not THAT far apart in cultural identity...
example...a welsh native of the time of the saxons would have recognised and most likely respected saxon property, land and inheritance laws, even though they were, by and large at war. A jute would have likewise understood the norms of a viking and so on...they were not, by and large hugely culturally distinct, and where there were distinctions, there was a general concensus of live and let live(unless you have something I want) disputes were about property, goods, land etc...not about what it means to be a jute or whatever....
so the HISTORICAL input of all these cultures was not and never can be considered to be ANY form of "multiculturalism"
definition of multiculturalism... the doctrine that several different cultures (rather than one national culture) can coexist peacefully and equitably in a single country
via... http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=multiculturalism
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:50 pm
And...somewhere in this mess that didge has managed to divert anywhere except to matters pertaining to the OP...is a post of mine that shows "multiculturalism" IS NOT of necessity the driver of any benefits...
Saudi is hardly conducive to "multiculturalism" indeed I cannot imagine ANYWHERE less hostile to such a concept, and yet.....they have no end of brits for example, working in their finance and IT industries, not to mention other nationalities engaged in engineering and civil engineering projects....
explain????
Saudi is hardly conducive to "multiculturalism" indeed I cannot imagine ANYWHERE less hostile to such a concept, and yet.....they have no end of brits for example, working in their finance and IT industries, not to mention other nationalities engaged in engineering and civil engineering projects....
explain????
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by veya_victaous Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:54 am
victorismyhero wrote:And...somewhere in this mess that didge has managed to divert anywhere except to matters pertaining to the OP...is a post of mine that shows "multiculturalism" IS NOT of necessity the driver of any benefits...
Saudi is hardly conducive to "multiculturalism" indeed I cannot imagine ANYWHERE less hostile to such a concept, and yet.....they have no end of brits for example, working in their finance and IT industries, not to mention other nationalities engaged in engineering and civil engineering projects....
explain????
the Western District
how can you claim they are not multicultural? very odd considering they have gov't sanctioned districts for different cultures that even include exclusion to their regular laws.
You do know in the Western district (equivalent of Chinatown in a western city) you can buy alcohol even though it is illegal elsewhere? the Saudi are quite accommodating to other cultures within the designated districts.
Propaganda (BNP racists)
https://www.bnp.org.uk/news/why-does-saudi-arabia-not-welcome-diversity
Reality (a Saudi Researcher doing a thesis on nursing in MODERN Saudi Arabia with its Highly multicultural workforce)
http://eprints.qut.edu.au/51580/1/Adel_Almutairi_Thesis.pdf
The whole Idea that Saudi Arabia is not multicultural is Ignorant to the point of stupid, as it clearly is. They have seen the same sort of immigration (by Asians and Indians) as England or Australia, And they have had Westerners go over there for job opportunities.
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:46 am
I cannot believe Victor is still being a complete idiot
As seen all his objections are flawed, because they are directly solely at Muslims and now it seems only also, both of whom have had people living here for centuries of which he never objected to any of these claims until the height of recent terrorism. This in itself shows his poor ability to be objectionable and his utterly hypocritical view on Halal and Kosher is utterly pathetic when he himself practices a method and supports that increases the risk of harm to animals and yet he is too thick it seems to even understand this. He wishes to discriminate against people with stammers, yet no where in the NHS is it a policy to deny someone working with a speech impediment,. showing what a prejudice twat he really is, he wishes to complain how people dress because he is now a fashion icon, what a wally
Again our nation has been built on a mulitude of cultures, from the Celts, Romans, Angles, Jutes, Saxons, Vikings, Normans etc, though he believes this is not multiculture.
multiculture
Web definitions
Multiculturalism relates to communities containing multiple cultures. The term is used in two broad ways, either descriptively or normatively. ...
Thus he cannot even comprehend English now
The United Kingdom has been a multicultural (or often referred to as 'cosmopolitan') society for thousands of years; whether it was the co-habitation between the Celts, Anglo-Saxons and Vikings in the 1000s or in the modern day with a huge range of nationalities and religions all living in the UK. The Evening Standard found that 270 nationalities with 300 languages lived in London alone. However, many traditional conservatives reject the concept of multiculturalism, claiming that it damages the natural organic society and weakens social cohesion; yet this view could not be further from the truth, and a cosmopolitan UK is a strong, stable and prosperous one.
London is now the Babel of the world, with around one third of Londoners from a foreign background, and our capital couldn't survive without them. From the coffee chain Pret A Manger – they employ over 105 different nationalities – right the way up to neuroscientists and working in the financial centre of the world. Business leaders crave for immigrant workers, as they provide an essential cog in the London machine, and Mayor Boris Johnson has had to be highly critical of the government's plans to cap non-EU migrants, a move which has not only been condemned by Boris but also branded as "illiberal and unworkable" by industry experts.
In a report funded by the Canadian Government, it was found that there are huge benefits to having a multicultural society – for example, hiring immigrant workers has many advantages, such as they can help a business tap into new local and international markets, and expand customer bases through improved cultural awareness and communications. In addition, it allows business to enhance creativity, productivity, and decision-making through diverse approaches found in varying cultures.
It has been found that in many countries, including the UK, Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) is greatest from countries that have a strong representation in the receiving land. This shows there are clear, significant positives to having a multicultural society, and frankly we could not be able to economically survive without one.
Furthermore, living in a multicultural society with people with different traditions and perspectives, makes people communicate with each other. When people communicate, they share ideas and perspectives, so everyone learns a new way to see the world or even a small thing or situation, to paraphrase the great James Stuart Mill, debate and discourse leads to human advancement and the emergence of the truth, also portrayed in the triad of the dialectic described by Georg Hegel. If everybody held the same values and opinions we would fall into a "dull conformism" whereby economic, social and political stagnation would take place and no progression would be made.
Thankfully, in a cosmopolitan society we have the clash of values and the incommensurability of values as Isaiah Berlin talked about, meaning that we can debate different ideas and so the true can indeed emerge, instead of having behind-the-times values and theories.
A multicultural society can also lead to a more peaceful society. In isolationist and dogmatically conservative nations such as Iran, tension towards nations of a different ilk can be considerable, however in the UK, because of our great acceptance and liberal nature regarding those of different values and ethnicities, issues such as racism and discrimination are noticeably lower than countries that enforce strict and illiberal laws vis-a-vis immigration and multiculturalism. In a cosmopolitan society, humans interact regardless of their background, religion or colour of their skin, all of which are such arbitrary factors in life. Instead, we all focus upon the key fact that we are all human beings, no matter what. As a result of isolationist countries not interacting with those of different backgrounds or values they are far more violent and prejudiced towards them, hence rendering their society to be intolerant and stagnated in the past.
With new additions to our multicultural society come new ideas, concepts and innovations that monocultural societies would have no chance of creating – for example around 70% of engineering and technology post-graduates in UK universities are from overseas, all of whom bring new ideas to the forefront of British science. In the USA, there is a long list of inventions created by the Afro-American population, many of which we take for granted today such as the air-conditioning unit, Frederick M. Jones, 1949 and the elevator, Alexander Miles, 1867. If it wasn't for a multicultural society, many inventions would never have come to light and our world would be a weaker place.
Politically, multiculturalism has become an increasing feature over the past decade. We have a growing number of Members of Parliament whose roots lie away from this isle. Indeed, a few key positions in the Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet are held by people who are not originally from the UK – Sayeeda Warsi, Baroness Warsi was Conservative Chair for 2 years and still attends the Cabinet; Chuka Umunna, Shadow Business Secretary, and Shadow Lord Chancellor Sadiq Khan all have backgrounds abroad. This number is bound to grow in the coming years with a rising amount of ethnic minorities MPs predicted at the 2015 General Election. This is an excellent addition to the British political spectrum as it adds an extra dimension of diversity to the arena and gives the multicultural society representation where it matters most. In the UK we need ethnic minorities in politics as it, again, allows for a greater variety of ideas, concepts and policies to be brought forward and hence advancing the society of the UK.
To conclude, anyone who argues that a multicultural society weakens a nation could not be further from the truth. In fact, a cosmopolitan country provides social, economic and political benefits for all. Theodore Zeldin wrote that minorities are only tolerated when things are going well. As soon as the economy starts to slide, people look for a scapegoat and often turn to those who are not of their own ilk as an excuse; however it is often minorities that are the pillar of the economy. Particularly here in the UK where immigrants play a key role in our economy and have done for a long time.
In total, I believe groups such as Liberty GB who oppose multiculturalism are seriously forgetting the key benefits of a diverse society, instead overlooking them in favour of significantly weaker arguments that would not lead to a stronger Britain. They claim multiculturalism equates to a fragmented UK, however the reality is quite the opposite: we are united, in the United Kingdom.
The fact is it is only idiots like Victor that are intolerant and do not wish to get along with people, well let him stew in his own hate, because I really do not concern myself over someone so full of hate, because as seen his arguments were not constructive criticism, but hateful as proven because his arguments contradicted and was only directed mainly at a faith which again was poor as his evidence was associated fallacies, thus on every level he is an idiot on social views.
Eve worse he attributes getting along with people to liberalism, when it is plain common sense to get along with people
As seen all his objections are flawed, because they are directly solely at Muslims and now it seems only also, both of whom have had people living here for centuries of which he never objected to any of these claims until the height of recent terrorism. This in itself shows his poor ability to be objectionable and his utterly hypocritical view on Halal and Kosher is utterly pathetic when he himself practices a method and supports that increases the risk of harm to animals and yet he is too thick it seems to even understand this. He wishes to discriminate against people with stammers, yet no where in the NHS is it a policy to deny someone working with a speech impediment,. showing what a prejudice twat he really is, he wishes to complain how people dress because he is now a fashion icon, what a wally
Again our nation has been built on a mulitude of cultures, from the Celts, Romans, Angles, Jutes, Saxons, Vikings, Normans etc, though he believes this is not multiculture.
multiculture
Web definitions
Multiculturalism relates to communities containing multiple cultures. The term is used in two broad ways, either descriptively or normatively. ...
Thus he cannot even comprehend English now
The United Kingdom has been a multicultural (or often referred to as 'cosmopolitan') society for thousands of years; whether it was the co-habitation between the Celts, Anglo-Saxons and Vikings in the 1000s or in the modern day with a huge range of nationalities and religions all living in the UK. The Evening Standard found that 270 nationalities with 300 languages lived in London alone. However, many traditional conservatives reject the concept of multiculturalism, claiming that it damages the natural organic society and weakens social cohesion; yet this view could not be further from the truth, and a cosmopolitan UK is a strong, stable and prosperous one.
London is now the Babel of the world, with around one third of Londoners from a foreign background, and our capital couldn't survive without them. From the coffee chain Pret A Manger – they employ over 105 different nationalities – right the way up to neuroscientists and working in the financial centre of the world. Business leaders crave for immigrant workers, as they provide an essential cog in the London machine, and Mayor Boris Johnson has had to be highly critical of the government's plans to cap non-EU migrants, a move which has not only been condemned by Boris but also branded as "illiberal and unworkable" by industry experts.
In a report funded by the Canadian Government, it was found that there are huge benefits to having a multicultural society – for example, hiring immigrant workers has many advantages, such as they can help a business tap into new local and international markets, and expand customer bases through improved cultural awareness and communications. In addition, it allows business to enhance creativity, productivity, and decision-making through diverse approaches found in varying cultures.
It has been found that in many countries, including the UK, Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) is greatest from countries that have a strong representation in the receiving land. This shows there are clear, significant positives to having a multicultural society, and frankly we could not be able to economically survive without one.
Furthermore, living in a multicultural society with people with different traditions and perspectives, makes people communicate with each other. When people communicate, they share ideas and perspectives, so everyone learns a new way to see the world or even a small thing or situation, to paraphrase the great James Stuart Mill, debate and discourse leads to human advancement and the emergence of the truth, also portrayed in the triad of the dialectic described by Georg Hegel. If everybody held the same values and opinions we would fall into a "dull conformism" whereby economic, social and political stagnation would take place and no progression would be made.
Thankfully, in a cosmopolitan society we have the clash of values and the incommensurability of values as Isaiah Berlin talked about, meaning that we can debate different ideas and so the true can indeed emerge, instead of having behind-the-times values and theories.
A multicultural society can also lead to a more peaceful society. In isolationist and dogmatically conservative nations such as Iran, tension towards nations of a different ilk can be considerable, however in the UK, because of our great acceptance and liberal nature regarding those of different values and ethnicities, issues such as racism and discrimination are noticeably lower than countries that enforce strict and illiberal laws vis-a-vis immigration and multiculturalism. In a cosmopolitan society, humans interact regardless of their background, religion or colour of their skin, all of which are such arbitrary factors in life. Instead, we all focus upon the key fact that we are all human beings, no matter what. As a result of isolationist countries not interacting with those of different backgrounds or values they are far more violent and prejudiced towards them, hence rendering their society to be intolerant and stagnated in the past.
With new additions to our multicultural society come new ideas, concepts and innovations that monocultural societies would have no chance of creating – for example around 70% of engineering and technology post-graduates in UK universities are from overseas, all of whom bring new ideas to the forefront of British science. In the USA, there is a long list of inventions created by the Afro-American population, many of which we take for granted today such as the air-conditioning unit, Frederick M. Jones, 1949 and the elevator, Alexander Miles, 1867. If it wasn't for a multicultural society, many inventions would never have come to light and our world would be a weaker place.
Politically, multiculturalism has become an increasing feature over the past decade. We have a growing number of Members of Parliament whose roots lie away from this isle. Indeed, a few key positions in the Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet are held by people who are not originally from the UK – Sayeeda Warsi, Baroness Warsi was Conservative Chair for 2 years and still attends the Cabinet; Chuka Umunna, Shadow Business Secretary, and Shadow Lord Chancellor Sadiq Khan all have backgrounds abroad. This number is bound to grow in the coming years with a rising amount of ethnic minorities MPs predicted at the 2015 General Election. This is an excellent addition to the British political spectrum as it adds an extra dimension of diversity to the arena and gives the multicultural society representation where it matters most. In the UK we need ethnic minorities in politics as it, again, allows for a greater variety of ideas, concepts and policies to be brought forward and hence advancing the society of the UK.
To conclude, anyone who argues that a multicultural society weakens a nation could not be further from the truth. In fact, a cosmopolitan country provides social, economic and political benefits for all. Theodore Zeldin wrote that minorities are only tolerated when things are going well. As soon as the economy starts to slide, people look for a scapegoat and often turn to those who are not of their own ilk as an excuse; however it is often minorities that are the pillar of the economy. Particularly here in the UK where immigrants play a key role in our economy and have done for a long time.
In total, I believe groups such as Liberty GB who oppose multiculturalism are seriously forgetting the key benefits of a diverse society, instead overlooking them in favour of significantly weaker arguments that would not lead to a stronger Britain. They claim multiculturalism equates to a fragmented UK, however the reality is quite the opposite: we are united, in the United Kingdom.
The fact is it is only idiots like Victor that are intolerant and do not wish to get along with people, well let him stew in his own hate, because I really do not concern myself over someone so full of hate, because as seen his arguments were not constructive criticism, but hateful as proven because his arguments contradicted and was only directed mainly at a faith which again was poor as his evidence was associated fallacies, thus on every level he is an idiot on social views.
Eve worse he attributes getting along with people to liberalism, when it is plain common sense to get along with people
Last edited by Didge on Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:48 am
"As seen all his objections are flawed, because they are directly solely at Muslims and now it seems only Jews"
?
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:50 am
My mistake meant also Jews
hey ho at least now I know you cannot spell Andy and need a spell check where you were exposed on a name ha ha ha ha
Now you might not be so idiotic to point out in the future son
hey ho at least now I know you cannot spell Andy and need a spell check where you were exposed on a name ha ha ha ha
Now you might not be so idiotic to point out in the future son
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:54 am
Didge wrote:My mistake meant also Jews
hey ho at least now I know you cannot spell Andy and need a spell check where you were exposed on a name ha ha ha ha
Now you might not be so idiotic to point out in the future son
No problem.
I will always point out mistakes - I find it very lazy of people not to make the effort to get things right.
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by stardesk Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:54 am
I know this will upset the liberalist's apple cart, but I long for the day I can go in my corner shop and be served by an Englishman, with whom I can chat and have a laugh.
I long to be able to go into a petrol station and be served by a local man, not a foreigner who's only objective is my money.
The only multiculturism I've seen, and mixed with, is West Indians, especially those who came here in the fifties and sixties, and their offspring. They're Christian, they adapted to our ways, they eat the same as we do, and apart from their colour they are much the same as ourselves. Whereas Eastern races, (Mostly Moslems) want to keep to their faith and way of life which does not create multiculturalism.
Someone mentioned the Far Eastern races. They, I have always found, are very polite and most of them speak English and have integrated quite well. As for the mention of early invasions etc, they were mostly Christian, they were white, and if you research your history, you will find they integrated with the local population, unlike some who want to remain seperate with their faiths and culture, which does not help one little bit to create multiculturalism.
Finally, I'm ENGLISH AND PROUD OF IT, and want to stay that way.
I long to be able to go into a petrol station and be served by a local man, not a foreigner who's only objective is my money.
The only multiculturism I've seen, and mixed with, is West Indians, especially those who came here in the fifties and sixties, and their offspring. They're Christian, they adapted to our ways, they eat the same as we do, and apart from their colour they are much the same as ourselves. Whereas Eastern races, (Mostly Moslems) want to keep to their faith and way of life which does not create multiculturalism.
Someone mentioned the Far Eastern races. They, I have always found, are very polite and most of them speak English and have integrated quite well. As for the mention of early invasions etc, they were mostly Christian, they were white, and if you research your history, you will find they integrated with the local population, unlike some who want to remain seperate with their faiths and culture, which does not help one little bit to create multiculturalism.
Finally, I'm ENGLISH AND PROUD OF IT, and want to stay that way.
stardesk- Forum Detective ????♀️
- Posts : 948
Join date : 2013-12-13
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:08 pm
stardesk wrote:I know this will upset the liberalist's apple cart, but I long for the day I can go in my corner shop and be served by an Englishman, with whom I can chat and have a laugh.
Hi Stardesk, why cannot you not have a laugh with anyone from any other ethnic group, I do daily, being as I am off ethnic descent and thus you talk to me
I long to be able to go into a petrol station and be served by a local man, not a foreigner who's only objective is my money.
What does it matter if you are, we are all human after all, what is the problem being served by someone not local, to me there is nothing wrong with that
The only multiculturism I've seen, and mixed with, is West Indians, especially those who came here in the fifties and sixties, and their offspring. They're Christian, they adapted to our ways, they eat the same as we do, and apart from their colour they are much the same as ourselves. Whereas Eastern races, (Mostly Moslems) want to keep to their faith and way of life which does not create multiculturalism.
Again then you are not like me and others who know and converse with Muslims daily, you do not know until you try. At the end of the day those who come here are often treated like outsiders and treated as seen by some with contempt, you can hardly blame them for not being forth coming and yet all it takes is a little chat to break the ice and barriers. Work does this very well and so does the young at school. At the end of the day most West Indians when they first arrived were treated just as poorly and seen as alien, even their cultures were seen as alien
Someone mentioned the Far Eastern races. They, I have always found, are very polite and most of them speak English and have integrated quite well. As for the mention of early invasions etc, they were mostly Christian, they were white, and if you research your history, you will find they integrated with the local population, unlike some who want to remain seperate with their faiths and culture, which does not help one little bit to create multiculturalism.
That is incorrect, most early invasions were pagan, Anglo saxons, Vikings, Romans, all pagan. No they very much butchered people to gain control and is debated how many came, though even at this time where the population was anywhere from 1-3 million, even 10,000 to 20,000 armed warriors would have seem vast in confined areas of the UK, where the population was vastly spread and would have out numbered locals within any area. Hence why it took much collaboration from different groups with the UK to fight back. What they certainly did was take their spoiils of the women and yes their cultures became the dominant ones, even though they may not have had total control in all areas
Finally, I'm ENGLISH AND PROUD OF IT, and want to stay that way.
Yes I am English and British and proud of it and fail to see why others cannot as they have done for centuries be apart of that, as the English people today are not pure blood Angles but a vast mix of the many groups that have come here mixing with the ancient Brits
Last edited by Didge on Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:12 pm
stardesk wrote:I know this will upset the liberalist's apple cart, but I long for the day I can go in my corner shop and be served by an Englishman, with whom I can chat and have a laugh.
I long to be able to go into a petrol station and be served by a local man, not a foreigner who's only objective is my money.
The only multiculturism I've seen, and mixed with, is West Indians, especially those who came here in the fifties and sixties, and their offspring. They're Christian, they adapted to our ways, they eat the same as we do, and apart from their colour they are much the same as ourselves. Whereas Eastern races, (Mostly Moslems) want to keep to their faith and way of life which does not create multiculturalism.
Someone mentioned the Far Eastern races. They, I have always found, are very polite and most of them speak English and have integrated quite well. As for the mention of early invasions etc, they were mostly Christian, they were white, and if you research your history, you will find they integrated with the local population, unlike some who want to remain seperate with their faiths and culture, which does not help one little bit to create multiculturalism.
Finally, I'm ENGLISH AND PROUD OF IT, and want to stay that way.
spot on 100% agree I'm ENGLISH AND PROUD OF IT too
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:13 pm
VOD(original) wrote:stardesk wrote:I know this will upset the liberalist's apple cart, but I long for the day I can go in my corner shop and be served by an Englishman, with whom I can chat and have a laugh.
I long to be able to go into a petrol station and be served by a local man, not a foreigner who's only objective is my money.
The only multiculturism I've seen, and mixed with, is West Indians, especially those who came here in the fifties and sixties, and their offspring. They're Christian, they adapted to our ways, they eat the same as we do, and apart from their colour they are much the same as ourselves. Whereas Eastern races, (Mostly Moslems) want to keep to their faith and way of life which does not create multiculturalism.
Someone mentioned the Far Eastern races. They, I have always found, are very polite and most of them speak English and have integrated quite well. As for the mention of early invasions etc, they were mostly Christian, they were white, and if you research your history, you will find they integrated with the local population, unlike some who want to remain seperate with their faiths and culture, which does not help one little bit to create multiculturalism.
Finally, I'm ENGLISH AND PROUD OF IT, and want to stay that way.
spot on 100% agree I'm ENGLISH AND PROUD OF IT too
Are you 100% descended from the Angles?
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:14 pm
Didge wrote:stardesk wrote:I know this will upset the liberalist's apple cart, but I long for the day I can go in my corner shop and be served by an Englishman, with whom I can chat and have a laugh.
Hi Stardesk, why cannot you not have a laugh with anyone from any other ethnic group, I do daily, being as I am off ethnic descent and thus you talk to me
I long to be able to go into a petrol station and be served by a local man, not a foreigner who's only objective is my money.
What does it matter if you are, we are all human after all, what is the problem being severed by someone not local, to me there is nothing wrong with that
The only multiculturism I've seen, and mixed with, is West Indians, especially those who came here in the fifties and sixties, and their offspring. They're Christian, they adapted to our ways, they eat the same as we do, and apart from their colour they are much the same as ourselves. Whereas Eastern races, (Mostly Moslems) want to keep to their faith and way of life which does not create multiculturalism.
Again then you are not like me and others who know and converse with Muslims daily, you do not know until you try. At the end of the day those who come here are often treated like outsiders and treated as seen by some with contempt, you can hardly blame them for not being forth coming and yet all it takes is a little chat to break the ice and barriers. Work does this very well and so does the young at school. At the end of the day most West Indians when they first arrived were treated just as poorly and seen as alien, even their cultures were seen as alien
Someone mentioned the Far Eastern races. They, I have always found, are very polite and most of them speak English and have integrated quite well. As for the mention of early invasions etc, they were mostly Christian, they were white, and if you research your history, you will find they integrated with the local population, unlike some who want to remain seperate with their faiths and culture, which does not help one little bit to create multiculturalism.
That is incorrect, most early invasions were pagan, Anglo saxons, Vikings, Romans, all pagan. No they very much butchered people to gain control and is debated how many came, though even at this time where the population was anywhere from 1-3 million, even 10,000 to 20,000 armed warriors would have seem vast in confined areas of the UK, where the population was vastly spread and would have out numbered locals within any area. Hence why it took much collaboration from different groups with the UK to fight back. What they certainly did was take their spoiils of the women and yes their cultures became the dominant ones, even though they may not have had total control in all areas
Finally, I'm ENGLISH AND PROUD OF IT, and want to stay that way.
Yes I am English and British and proud of it and fail to see why others cannot as they have done for centuries be apart of that, as the English people today are not pure blood Angles but a vast mix of the many groups that have come here mixing with the ancient Brits
Those god damned muslims - always severing people when you go in for a packet of Wine Gums!
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:16 pm
BigAndy9 wrote:Didge wrote:
Yes I am English and British and proud of it and fail to see why others cannot as they have done for centuries be apart of that, as the English people today are not pure blood Angles but a vast mix of the many groups that have come here mixing with the ancient Brits
Those god damned muslims - always severing people when you go in for a packet of Wine Gums!
Really how often does that happen in this country Andy in the last 100 years?
Again you show your prejudice and poor guilt by association, I mean nearly 3 million live here and yet with your views, we should be having heads cut off daily, as again people are led to believe they have no fear of death, odd that this is not the reality mind
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:16 pm
Didge wrote:stardesk wrote:I know this will upset the liberalist's apple cart, but I long for the day I can go in my corner shop and be served by an Englishman, with whom I can chat and have a laugh.
Hi Stardesk, why cannot you not have a laugh with anyone from any other ethnic group, I do daily, being as I am off ethnic descent and thus you talk to me
I long to be able to go into a petrol station and be served by a local man, not a foreigner who's only objective is my money.
What does it matter if you are, we are all human after all, what is the problem being severed by someone not local, to me there is nothing wrong with that
The only multiculturism I've seen, and mixed with, is West Indians, especially those who came here in the fifties and sixties, and their offspring. They're Christian, they adapted to our ways, they eat the same as we do, and apart from their colour they are much the same as ourselves. Whereas Eastern races, (Mostly Moslems) want to keep to their faith and way of life which does not create multiculturalism.
Again then you are not like me and others who know and converse with Muslims daily, you do not know until you try. At the end of the day those who come here are often treated like outsiders and treated as seen by some with contempt, you can hardly blame them for not being forth coming and yet all it takes is a little chat to break the ice and barriers. Work does this very well and so does the young at school. At the end of the day most West Indians when they first arrived were treated just as poorly and seen as alien, even their cultures were seen as alien
Someone mentioned the Far Eastern races. They, I have always found, are very polite and most of them speak English and have integrated quite well. As for the mention of early invasions etc, they were mostly Christian, they were white, and if you research your history, you will find they integrated with the local population, unlike some who want to remain seperate with their faiths and culture, which does not help one little bit to create multiculturalism.
That is incorrect, most early invasions were pagan, Anglo saxons, Vikings, Romans, all pagan. No they very much butchered people to gain control and is debated how many came, though even at this time where the population was anywhere from 1-3 million, even 10,000 to 20,000 armed warriors would have seem vast in confined areas of the UK, where the population was vastly spread and would have out numbered locals within any area. Hence why it took much collaboration from different groups with the UK to fight back. What they certainly did was take their spoiils of the women and yes their cultures became the dominant ones, even though they may not have had total control in all areas
Finally, I'm ENGLISH AND PROUD OF IT, and want to stay that way.
Yes I am English and British and proud of it and fail to see why others cannot as they have done for centuries be apart of that, as the English people today are not pure blood Angles but a vast mix of the many groups that have come here mixing with the ancient Brits
I wasn't around centuries ago didge.
What I do know, and remember, is the England of the 70s and 80s, which was a hell of a lot greener, a hell of a lot safer (no matter what you say) and a hell of a lot more English and white.
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:17 pm
Didge wrote:BigAndy9 wrote:
Those god damned muslims - always severing people when you go in for a packet of Wine Gums!
Really how often does that happen in this country Andy in the last 100 years?
Again you show your prejudice and poor guilt by association, I mean nearly 3 million live here and yet with your views, we should be having heads cut off daily, as again people are led to believe they have no fear of death, odd that this is not the reality mind
didge it was just a light hearted joke - I know you meant to say served but you put severed instead - I was just having a laugh pal.
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:19 pm
BigAndy9 wrote:Didge wrote:
Yes I am English and British and proud of it and fail to see why others cannot as they have done for centuries be apart of that, as the English people today are not pure blood Angles but a vast mix of the many groups that have come here mixing with the ancient Brits
I wasn't around centuries ago didge.
What I do know, and remember, is the England of the 70s and 80s, which was a hell of a lot greener, a hell of a lot safer (no matter what you say) and a hell of a lot more English and white.
Britain is still very green, only 7% is industrialised, that leaves one hell of a lot of greenery.
How was it a lot safer?
Are you basing this on more people coming forward reporting crimes?
If yes, then it was not safer and people were too afraid to come forward, thus it was a worse time to live, it was al;so a time of the heavy bombing campaign from the IRA, which was vastly more active and successful than any Islamic attacks to our shores.
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:21 pm
BigAndy9 wrote:Didge wrote:
Really how often does that happen in this country Andy in the last 100 years?
Again you show your prejudice and poor guilt by association, I mean nearly 3 million live here and yet with your views, we should be having heads cut off daily, as again people are led to believe they have no fear of death, odd that this is not the reality mind
didge it was just a light hearted joke - I know you meant to say served but you put severed instead - I was just having a laugh pal.
DOH, only just noticed ha ha
Guest- Guest
Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:28 pm
BigAndy9 wrote:Didge wrote:
Yes I am English and British and proud of it and fail to see why others cannot as they have done for centuries be apart of that, as the English people today are not pure blood Angles but a vast mix of the many groups that have come here mixing with the ancient Brits
I wasn't around centuries ago didge.
What I do know, and remember, is the England of the 70s and 80s, which was a hell of a lot greener, a hell of a lot safer (no matter what you say) and a hell of a lot more English and white.
Well you see, I remember England in the 50s, which was full of smog that people were dying from, and we needed people to do work because of the mess left over from the war, when we were extremely glad for people from other countries to come. We couldn't have managed without them.
And I'm sorry Stardesk, if you think people from the West Indies eat the same food as the English, meat and two veg etc, you have never eaten West Indian food. In fact we already loved curry from India etc and West Indian shops were all over the place in London, bringing in the foods the West Indians' couldn't get over here, as well as the Chinese food shops that we already had.
My local newsagent is Indian and we have a good laugh, our local pub is run by a Englishman with a Thai wife and she does the most fantastic Thai food. If I had to live of English food forever I'd shoot myself, can't go a couple of days without spice, and it's so good for you.
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:49 pm
Didge wrote:BigAndy9 wrote:
didge it was just a light hearted joke - I know you meant to say served but you put severed instead - I was just having a laugh pal.
DOH, only just noticed ha ha
Gave me a laugh as well!
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:58 pm
British culture feeling the heat of multiculturalism
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:51 pm
Yea, that really applies to the sikh papershop owner, or the polish builder.
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:56 pm
British culture accommodating multiculturalism
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:59 pm
We know there are people with extreme views on all sides. You are one of them.
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:01 pm
multiculturalism is BOOMING in London
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:09 pm
Have you got any pics of what the IRA did?
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:10 pm
Sassy wrote:Have you got any pics of what the IRA did?
Here you go Sassy
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:50 pm
Thanks Didge. You missed out those poor horses that they killed as well.
Extremists! Bloody people! And I definitely count Smelly as one of them. Mind you, he would do much damage with a paintball gun, but who knows what else he'd like to get his hands on.
Extremists! Bloody people! And I definitely count Smelly as one of them. Mind you, he would do much damage with a paintball gun, but who knows what else he'd like to get his hands on.
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:56 pm
Sassy wrote:Thanks Didge. You missed out those poor horses that they killed as well.
Extremists! Bloody people! And I definitely count Smelly as one of them. Mind you, he would do much damage with a paintball gun, but who knows what else he'd like to get his hands on.
The picture of the horses is there. did you miss it in the rush to fan the flames again?
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:59 pm
Gobshite alert!
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:02 pm
Well, don't give a flying fuck what she said Phil, anyone who can stir as much as she did about the screen shot and then cuddle up to a racist low life has lost the plot completely.
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:05 pm
Sassy wrote:Well, don't give a flying fuck what she said Phil, anyone who can stir as much as she did about the screen shot and then cuddle up to a racist low life has lost the plot completely.
She's been on a bit of a mission today, but then her spiteful agenda never changes much.
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:08 pm
Sassy wrote:Well, don't give a flying fuck what she said Phil, anyone who can stir as much as she did about the screen shot and then cuddle up to a racist low life has lost the plot completely.
Conveniently forgetting as usual that you started it
Well arent Sassy and Phil living proof of the old saying misery loves company!
::smthg::
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:11 pm
......Toxic 
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:46 pm
stardesk wrote:I know this will upset the liberalist's apple cart, but I long for the day I can go in my corner shop and be served by an Englishman, with whom I can chat and have a laugh.
I long to be able to go into a petrol station and be served by a local man, not a foreigner who's only objective is my money.
The only multiculturism I've seen, and mixed with, is West Indians, especially those who came here in the fifties and sixties, and their offspring. They're Christian, they adapted to our ways, they eat the same as we do, and apart from their colour they are much the same as ourselves. Whereas Eastern races, (Mostly Moslems) want to keep to their faith and way of life which does not create multiculturalism.
Someone mentioned the Far Eastern races. They, I have always found, are very polite and most of them speak English and have integrated quite well. As for the mention of early invasions etc, they were mostly Christian, they were white, and if you research your history, you will find they integrated with the local population, unlike some who want to remain seperate with their faiths and culture, which does not help one little bit to create multiculturalism.
Finally, I'm ENGLISH AND PROUD OF IT, and want to stay that way.
Star - I thought you felt atheism to be the only rational belief system. So why would you think it preferable that immigrants convert to Christianity?
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:16 pm
veya_victaous wrote:victorismyhero wrote:And...somewhere in this mess that didge has managed to divert anywhere except to matters pertaining to the OP...is a post of mine that shows "multiculturalism" IS NOT of necessity the driver of any benefits...
Saudi is hardly conducive to "multiculturalism" indeed I cannot imagine ANYWHERE less hostile to such a concept, and yet.....they have no end of brits for example, working in their finance and IT industries, not to mention other nationalities engaged in engineering and civil engineering projects....
explain????
the Western District
how can you claim they are not multicultural? very odd considering they have gov't sanctioned districts for different cultures that even include exclusion to their regular laws.
definition of multiculturalism... the doctrine that several different cultures (rather than one national culture) can coexist peacefully and equitably in a single country
via... http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=multiculturalism
I beleive that important word is the KEY. What saudi has is "enclaves...rather like if we built walls round certain parts of certain cities.....and only allowed passage out to do a job..
You do know in the Western district (equivalent of Chinatown in a western city) you can buy alcohol even though it is illegal elsewhere? the Saudi are quite accommodating to other cultures within the designated districts exactly...within designated districts....just as if WE allowed the sale of say halal or kosher ONLY within certain districts, or only allowed mosques within certain districts.
Propaganda (BNP racists)
https://www.bnp.org.uk/news/why-does-saudi-arabia-not-welcome-diversity
Reality (a Saudi Researcher doing a thesis on nursing in MODERN Saudi Arabia with its Highly multicultural workforce)
http://eprints.qut.edu.au/51580/1/Adel_Almutairi_Thesis.pdf
The whole Idea that Saudi Arabia is not multicultural is Ignorant to the point of stupid, as it clearly is. as it most certainly isnt...see the above They have seen the same sort of immigration (by Asians and Indians) as England or Australia, And they have had Westerners go over there for job opportunities.
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by stardesk Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:26 pm
Lovedust, quoting you: 'Star - I thought you felt atheism to be the only rational belief system. So why would you think it preferable that immigrants convert to Christianity?'
Don't like the word 'atheist,' much prefer evolutionist. LD, I see Christianity as we in the West understand and practice it, as a long held tradition which has helped to shape our country. I think I'm right in saying it is what held us together as a united nation. What we have now is foreign cultures and beliefs muddying our once calm waters. We are becoming watered down and no longer of good quality.
The caption is 'if you don't think multiculturism is working look at your street corner.' Here's an example of how this is wrong. I'm sure you all know that certain parts of our towns have their foreign ghettoes. One or two migrant familys move in, Brits move out, more migrants move in. Before you know it they've occupied the whole road, then the area. Not so long ago the wife and I were in Peterborough and because we like to try different foods, we went into a shop in a street of Moslems. When we went in you could have cut the atmosphere with a butter knife. Several people in the shop went quiet and they, and the assistant, went deadly quiet and stared at us. We hurriedly left and drove out of the area. That was MY country?
Sassy, the wife and I like spiced foods etc, and I've eaten many a foreign meal in my time, but that's not the problem, it's much deeper and more serious than food.
Don't like the word 'atheist,' much prefer evolutionist. LD, I see Christianity as we in the West understand and practice it, as a long held tradition which has helped to shape our country. I think I'm right in saying it is what held us together as a united nation. What we have now is foreign cultures and beliefs muddying our once calm waters. We are becoming watered down and no longer of good quality.
The caption is 'if you don't think multiculturism is working look at your street corner.' Here's an example of how this is wrong. I'm sure you all know that certain parts of our towns have their foreign ghettoes. One or two migrant familys move in, Brits move out, more migrants move in. Before you know it they've occupied the whole road, then the area. Not so long ago the wife and I were in Peterborough and because we like to try different foods, we went into a shop in a street of Moslems. When we went in you could have cut the atmosphere with a butter knife. Several people in the shop went quiet and they, and the assistant, went deadly quiet and stared at us. We hurriedly left and drove out of the area. That was MY country?
Sassy, the wife and I like spiced foods etc, and I've eaten many a foreign meal in my time, but that's not the problem, it's much deeper and more serious than food.
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:33 pm
Sassy wrote:Thanks Didge. You missed out those poor horses that they killed as well.
Extremists! Bloody people! And I definitely count Smelly as one of them. Mind you, he would do much damage with a paintball gun, but who knows what else he'd like to get his hands on.
GOT his hands on
im a regular muslim hero sassy
do you know how many Muslims Ive helped meet Allah??
well i don't, lost count
you're welcome
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:34 pm
stardesk wrote:Lovedust, quoting you: 'Star - I thought you felt atheism to be the only rational belief system. So why would you think it preferable that immigrants convert to Christianity?'
Don't like the word 'atheist,' much prefer evolutionist. LD, I see Christianity as we in the West understand and practice it, as a long held tradition which has helped to shape our country. I think I'm right in saying it is what held us together as a united nation. What we have now is foreign cultures and beliefs muddying our once calm waters. We are becoming watered down and no longer of good quality.
The caption is 'if you don't think multiculturism is working look at your street corner.' Here's an example of how this is wrong. I'm sure you all know that certain parts of our towns have their foreign ghettoes. One or two migrant familys move in, Brits move out, more migrants move in. Before you know it they've occupied the whole road, then the area. Not so long ago the wife and I were in Peterborough and because we like to try different foods, we went into a shop in a street of Moslems. When we went in you could have cut the atmosphere with a butter knife. Several people in the shop went quiet and they, and the assistant, went deadly quiet and stared at us. We hurriedly left and drove out of the area. That was MY country?
Sassy, the wife and I like spiced foods etc, and I've eaten many a foreign meal in my time, but that's not the problem, it's much deeper and more serious than food.
racist
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:34 pm
Eds, Lovey, you were right, total tit!
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:36 pm
Didge wrote:I cannot believe Victor is still being a complete idiot
As seen all his objections are flawed, because they are directly solely at Muslims and now it seems only also, both of whom have had people living here for centuries of which he never objected to any of these claims until the height of recent terrorism. This in itself shows his poor ability to be objectionable and his utterly hypocritical view on Halal and Kosher is utterly pathetic when he himself practices a method and supports that increases the risk of harm to animals and yet he is too thick it seems to even understand this. He wishes to discriminate against people with stammers, yet no where in the NHS is it a policy to deny someone working with a speech impediment,. showing what a prejudice twat he really is, he wishes to complain how people dress because he is now a fashion icon, what a wally
Again our nation has been built on a mulitude of cultures, from the Celts, Romans, Angles, Jutes, Saxons, Vikings, Normans etc, though he believes this is not multiculture.
multiculture
Web definitions
Multiculturalism relates to communities containing multiple cultures. The term is used in two broad ways, either descriptively or normatively. ...
definition of multiculturalism... the doctrine (ie political belief ) that several different cultures (rather than one national culture) can coexist peacefully and equitably in a single country
via... http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=multiculturalism
Thus he cannot even comprehend English now
The United Kingdom has been a multicultural (or often referred to as 'cosmopolitan') society for thousands of years; whether it was the co-habitation between the Celts, Anglo-Saxons and Vikings in the 1000s or in the modern day with a huge range of nationalities and religions all living in the UK. The Evening Standard found that 270 nationalities with 300 languages lived in London alone. However, many traditional conservatives reject the concept of multiculturalism, claiming that it damages the natural organic society and weakens social cohesion; yet this view could not be further from the truth, and a cosmopolitan UK is a strong, stable and prosperous one.
London is now the Babel of the world, with around one third of Londoners from a foreign background, and our capital couldn't survive without them. From the coffee chain Pret A Manger – they employ over 105 different nationalities – right the way up to neuroscientists and working in the financial centre of the world. Business leaders crave for immigrant workers, as they provide an essential cog in the London machine, and Mayor Boris Johnson has had to be highly critical of the government's plans to cap non-EU migrants, a move which has not only been condemned by Boris but also branded as "illiberal and unworkable" by industry experts.
In a report funded by the Canadian Government, it was found that there are huge benefits to having a multicultural society – for example, hiring immigrant workers has many advantages, such as they can help a business tap into new local and international markets, and expand customer bases through improved cultural awareness and communications.(and of course they are cheaper and easier to exploit) In addition, it allows business to enhance creativity, productivity, and decision-making through diverse approaches found in varying cultures.
It has been found that in many countries, including the UK, Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) is greatest from countries that have a strong representation in the receiving land. This shows there are clear, significant positives to having a multicultural society, and frankly we could not be able to economically survive without one.
Furthermore, living in a multicultural society with people with different traditions and perspectives, makes people communicate with each other. When people communicate, they share ideas and perspectives, so everyone learns a new way to see the world or even a small thing or situation, to paraphrase the great James Stuart Mill, debate and discourse leads to human advancement and the emergence of the truth, also portrayed in the triad of the dialectic described by Georg Hegel. If everybody held the same values and opinions we would fall into a "dull conformism" whereby economic, social and political stagnation would take place and no progression would be made.(which is what the "progressive wants to see)
Thankfully, in a cosmopolitan society we have the clash of values and the incommensurability of values as Isaiah Berlin talked about, meaning that we can debate different ideas and so the true can indeed emerge, instead of having behind-the-times values and theories.
A multicultural society can also lead to a more peaceful society. In isolationist and dogmatically conservative nations such as Iran, tension towards nations of a different ilk can be considerable, however in the UK, because of our great acceptance and liberal nature regarding those of different values and ethnicities, issues such as racism and discrimination are noticeably lower than countries that enforce strict and illiberal laws vis-a-vis immigration and multiculturalism. In a cosmopolitan society, humans interact regardless of their background, religion or colour of their skin, all of which are such arbitrary factors in life. Instead, we all focus upon the key fact that we are all human beings, no matter what. As a result of isolationist countries not interacting with those of different backgrounds or values they are far more violent and prejudiced towards them, hence rendering their society to be intolerant and stagnated in the past.
With new additions to our multicultural society come new ideas, concepts and innovations that monocultural societies would have no chance of creating – for example around 70% of engineering and technology post-graduates in UK universities are from overseas, all of whom bring new ideas to the forefront of British science. In the USA, there is a long list of inventions created by the Afro-American population, many of which we take for granted today such as the air-conditioning unit, Frederick M. Jones, 1949 and the elevator, Alexander Miles, 1867. If it wasn't for a multicultural society, many inventions would never have come to light and our world would be a weaker place.
Politically, multiculturalism has become an increasing feature over the past decade. We have a growing number of Members of Parliament whose roots lie away from this isle. Indeed, a few key positions in the Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet are held by people who are not originally from the UK – Sayeeda Warsi, Baroness Warsi was Conservative Chair for 2 years and still attends the Cabinet; Chuka Umunna, Shadow Business Secretary, and Shadow Lord Chancellor Sadiq Khan all have backgrounds abroad. This number is bound to grow in the coming years with a rising amount of ethnic minorities MPs predicted at the 2015 General Election. This is an excellent addition to the British political spectrum as it adds an extra dimension of diversity to the arena and gives the multicultural society representation where it matters most. In the UK we need ethnic minorities in politics as it, again, allows for a greater variety of ideas, concepts and policies to be brought forward and hence advancing the society of the UK.
To conclude, anyone who argues that a multicultural society weakens a nation could not be further from the truth. In fact, a cosmopolitan country provides social, economic and political benefits for all. Theodore Zeldin wrote that minorities are only tolerated when things are going well. As soon as the economy starts to slide, people look for a scapegoat and often turn to those who are not of their own ilk as an excuse; however it is often minorities that are the pillar of the economy. Particularly here in the UK where immigrants play a key role in our economy and have done for a long time.
In total, I believe groups such as Liberty GB who oppose multiculturalism are seriously forgetting the key benefits of a diverse society, instead overlooking them in favour of significantly weaker arguments that would not lead to a stronger Britain. They claim multiculturalism equates to a fragmented UK, however the reality is quite the opposite: we are united, in the United Kingdom.
A source would be nice....otherwise i shall have to understand that this is yet more propaganda by vested interest
The fact is it is only idiots like Victor that are intolerant and do not wish to get along with people, well let him stew in his own hate, because I really do not concern myself over someone so full of hate, because as seen his arguments were not constructive criticism, but hateful as proven because his arguments contradicted and was only directed mainly at a faith which again was poor as his evidence was associated fallacies, thus on every level he is an idiot on social views.
Eve worse he attributes getting along with people to liberalism, when it is plain common sense to get along with people
rubbish again....and depends on what "getting along with" means and entails I make no effort to antagonise anyone as a rule...I'm too lazy for conflict (but dont let that fool you to the wrong assumption) but...neither will i change ONE jot of what I am to "accomodate" another....compromise is not an option....I break no laws (at least not intentionally), i do not set out (generally) to harm anyone else....and generally I hope I behave "reasonably"....(within a british context) If thats not good enough for someone...tough i aint gonna change...so you had better...or walk away. Moreover...unless what you have to offer is of interest to me...i'm not interested....
definition of compromise...a solution that all accept, but everyone hates.....
finally i'd love the idea of saudi multiculturalism...seems like a good "compromise" to me
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:41 pm
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:43 pm
have i got the wrong end of this??
is someone suggesting that Saudi Arabia is multicultural??
say it aint so
is someone suggesting that Saudi Arabia is multicultural??
say it aint so
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Re: If you don't think multiculturalism is working, look at your street corner
by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:55 pm
What does prejudice produce with those against other cultures:
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