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Post by inmyopinion on Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:34 pm

First topic message reminder :

If you have to be tested to be told you have had a terrible killer virus, It really can't have been all that bad.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:54 pm




Which will kill more people than it saves.



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Post by Original Quill on Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:03 pm

Again, nonsense. Preventing loss of human life is an end in itself.

Your direction leads to uncapping child labor laws, no medical care, no sick time off, and all heave-ho for the economy. Anyone who dies, meh…cost of doing business. Covid testing. - Page 5 2190311264

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:38 pm




Here in UK there have been 300,000 cancer screening referrals that have not happened over the last 6 months...


Rates of depression and people suffering from money troubles have gone sky high... Levels of alcohol and drug use have rocketed...


The numbers of deaths caused directly these problems, which have been directly caused by the restrictions imposed, will be much higher than deaths from covid19!


We need to protect the older and vulnerable people and let everyone else carry on as normal!



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Post by Original Quill on Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:14 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Here in UK there have been 300,000 cancer screening referrals that have not happened over the last 6 months...

Rates of depression and people suffering from money troubles have gone sky high... Levels of alcohol and drug use have rocketed...

The numbers of deaths caused directly these problems, which have been directly caused by the restrictions imposed, will be much higher than deaths from covid19!

We need to protect the older and vulnerable people and let everyone else carry on as normal!

I feel for y'all in the UK. You need more cancer screening. I have a relative who has lung cancer, and he is receiving treatment from one of the finest university hospitals in the world...just down the road.

You also need more depression and also alcohol/drug treatment facilities, if these facilities are in short supply. If you can afford it, send some over here...we have many empty beds for alcohol/drug rehabilitation.

It is not measures to save covid lives that are creating these problems. It is the absence of programs directly relating to treatment of such problems. Address those, and you'll be fine.

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:33 pm

No... It is directly caused by covid19 restrictions... The cancer screening referrals were all cancelled because hospitals were prioritising the possibility that they would need the capacity for covid patients...

But the influx of covid patients was nowhere near what was thought might happen...

All the new nightingale hospitals that were also built especially for the mad rush of covid patients also never really got used... And all have closed down and been put on standby...

And I worked in a hospital for 3 months earlier on this year, and the operations had all been cancelled... I was chatting to the main surgeon, as I was doing some work in his dept area, and he said he had nothing to do except for the odd tracheostomy when covid patients had to be but on ventilation... And that was for a 6 month period...




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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:48 pm


Front page of Mondays Daily Telegraph



'Protect the NHS' message led to 90 per cent drop in hospital admissions

Effects of Covid advice laid bare as admissions for serious illnesses plummeted, according to a major report

By Laura Donnelly, Health Editor 18 October 2020 • 9:30pm

The devastating cost of efforts to "protect the NHS" in the pandemic has been exposed by a new analysis of 200 health conditions which reveals hospital admissions for plummeted by up to 90 per cent.


The devastating cost of efforts to "protect the NHS" in the pandemic has been exposed by a new analysis of 200 health conditions which reveals hospital admissions for plummeted by up to 90 per cent.

The major report shows that consultations for the most common cancers fell by up to two thirds during lockdown, while heart-attack checks reduced by almost half.

Experts said the findings were “staggering” and could mean thousands of extra deaths. They warned that the situation must not be repeated during the second wave of the pandemic, as hospitals come under growing pressure, with operations being cancelled.

During lockdown, the Government urged the public to "Stay Home, Protect the NHS, Save Lives." This message was intended to ensure people followed the lockdown advice, but saw people with urgent needs deterred from attending hospital, for fear of catching coronavirus or being a burden on the health service, while planned treatments were routinely put on hold.

There are fears the same could happen again, as ministers have echoed that message in reference to the second wave.


Earlier this month, Health Secretary Matt Hancock warned the pandemic was at a "perilous" moment that could cause the "implosion" of the NHS this winter unless levels were suppressed.

He said: "We know from bitter experience that the more coronavirus spreads, the harder it is to do all the other vital work of the NHS.

"The message to the public must be that we all have a part to play to control this virus."

Hospitals in Nottingham, Birmingham, Liverpool, Swansea and Plymouth are among those who have begun cancelling planned surgery. And University Hospital Birmingham has warned that it will turn away A&E arrivals who do not need urgent help.

On Sunday, there were a further 16,982 lab-confirmed cases of coronavirus in the UK.

Separate figures show there were 4,974 Covid-19 patients in hospital in England on Sunday, up from 3,451 a week ago. A total of 632 patients with confirmed Covid-19 were admitted to hospitals in England on Friday, compared with 544 a week earlier.

The research by healthcare analyst Dr Foster shows in April and May this year, admissions relating to a host of diseases saw a sharp drop. Those for prostate cancer – the most common form of cancer in men, which is normally diagnosed in around 50,000 men a year, fell by 64 per cent.

There were just 4,640 admissions to hospital in April and May, compared with a five-year average of 12,589, NHS Digital figures show.

Bowel cancer – the second biggest cancer killer in the UK – saw a 39 per cent drop in admissions, with just 8,184 cases seen, when around 13,488 would have been expected.

And the number involving breast cancer – the most common form of cancer for women – slumped by 30 per cent, with 25,711 rather than the 36,848 average.
Hospital admissions in lockdown

Admissions for patients with “nonspecific cardiac chest pain” – a red flag condition which can indicate a heart attack – fell by 41 per cent, while those for patients with a specific heart attack diagnosis dropped by 27 per cent.

Meanwhile, those to diagnose or treat gastrointestinal disorders were down by 90 per cent.

Earlier this month NHS chiefs launched a campaign – Help Us to Help You – assuring patients that they will not be viewed as a burden if they seek help for non-Covid ailments following concerns about the effects of the the Government’s advice to “Protect the NHS”.

Experts have said poor access for diagnosis and care during the pandemic could see an extra 35,000 deaths from cancer this year.

Last week, the Care Quality Commission said millions of patients had missed out on GP appointments since lockdown, meaning fewer referrals to hospital for vital checks.

In total there were almost 27 million fewer GP appointments carried out between March and August this year, compared with the same period last year.

Kruti Shrotri, Cancer Research UK policy manager, said: “These figures provide further evidence of the devastating impact that Covid-19 has had on diagnosing and treating patients.

“As health services are now having to manage a resurgence of Covid-19 on top of usual winter pressures, it’s critical that we take forward the lessons learnt so far to ensure cancer patients get the care they need through a second wave of the virus.”

The number of patients starting cancer treatment such as chemotherapy and radiology between April and July is 26 per cent lower than the same period last year, with around 31,000 patients missing out, the charity said.

Dr Sonya Babu-Narayan, associate medical director at the British Heart Foundation and a consultant cardiologist, said: “We are sadly seeing the fallout of people not getting cardiovascular care during this pandemic – with thousands of excess deaths caused by these conditions.

“It’s vital that people can access healthcare as they usually would.”

Data shows more than 4,400 extra deaths from heart disease and stroke in Britain during the first four months of the pandemic.

Karen Stalbow, from Prostate Cancer UK said that while most localised prostate cancer grows slowly, it was critical that the most urgent cases were not forced to endure further waits.

She said: “Some men simply cannot afford to wait, and as we enter the second wave of the pandemic, it is vital that hospitals can continue to provide treatments for those most at risk of their cancer progressing.”

Tom Binstead, director of strategy and analytics, at Dr Foster, said some of the figures were “staggering” with falls seen “across the board” including in almost all emergency activity, other than childbirth.

He said: “Overall, the analysis suggests that the long-term effects of the pandemic are likely to be far reaching, with a future spike in demand possible due to missed diagnoses and postponed procedures.

“Cancers may now require a greater level of treatment, or even be untreatable, if they have been left undetected or untreated as a result of the crisis.”


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Post by Original Quill on Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:00 am

Tommy Monk wrote:No... It is directly caused by covid19 restrictions... The cancer screening referrals were all cancelled because hospitals were prioritising the possibility that they would need the capacity for covid patients...

But the influx of covid patients was nowhere near what was thought might happen...

All the new nightingale hospitals that were also built especially for the mad rush of covid patients also never really got used... And all have closed down and been put on standby...

And I worked in a hospital for 3 months earlier on this year, and the operations had all been cancelled... I was chatting to the main surgeon, as I was doing some work in his dept area, and he said he had nothing to do except for the odd tracheostomy when covid patients had to be but on ventilation... And that was for a 6 month period...

It sounds like the UK has it all well under control. That's good news.

Unfortunately, the news isn't as good on this side of the pond. Virtually every state in the US is suffering a huge rise in Covid patients due to the second wave. It is expected to run out the rest of this year, and far into the next. Then the third wave, et al.

Plus we've found a new problem: a rise in the re-infected. A couple of dozen cases of reinfection have been reported so far, and they weren't even looking for them.

That can only mean the immune system is not working. This may be a virus that has found a way to outsmart the antibodies:

CDC wrote:"Well-documented cases," Dr. Anthony Fauci said, '"of people who were infected, after a relatively brief period of time measured anywhere from weeks to several months come back, get exposed and get infected again."

"So you really have to be careful that you're not completely 'immune,'" Fauci said.

Scary, huh?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:23 am




You obviously either didn't read properly or understand properly what it was that I said...


And it's only a handful so far that are allegedly suffering from covid19 a second time... And most likely down to false positive test results or extremely low immune systems for a variety of other possible reasons...

But without any in-depth knowledge of each of these alleged cases, it is impossible to say...


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Post by Original Quill on Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:55 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

You obviously either didn't read properly or understand properly what it was that I said...

And it's only a handful so far that are allegedly suffering from covid19 a second time... And most likely down to false positive test results or extremely low immune systems for a variety of other possible reasons...

But without any in-depth knowledge of each of these alleged cases, it is impossible to say...

Researchers are watching closely, making sure that it is not down to false positives or negatives.  So we are beyond that. They are quite concerned, as you might surmise.  A miss is as good as a mile, and if Covid-19 turns out to defeat immune systems, katy bar the door.

For centuries we have been able to depend upon immunity to put an end to epidemics.  It is taken for granted, so much so that we have developed sub-scripts like herd immunity and vaccines.  If we cannot depend on immunity, particularly for a free, airborne virus, it is big trouble.

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by inmyopinion on Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

You obviously either didn't read properly or understand properly what it was that I said...

And it's only a handful so far that are allegedly suffering from covid19 a second time... And most likely down to false positive test results or extremely low immune systems for a variety of other possible reasons...

But without any in-depth knowledge of each of these alleged cases, it is impossible to say...

Researchers are watching closely, making sure that it is not down to false positives or negatives.  So we are beyond that.  They are quite concerned, as you might surmise.  A miss is as good as a mile, and if Covid-19 turns out to defeat immune systems, katy bar the door.

For centuries we have been able to depend upon immunity to put an end to epidemics.  It is taken for granted, so much so that we have developed sub-scripts like herd immunity and vaccines.  If we cannot depend on immunity, particularly for a free, airborne virus, it is big trouble.

the current test has a huge percentage chance of a false positive according to many sources, that is a major issue, fortunately the rise in "alleged" cases is not causing a rise in deaths, so is it safe to assume it was never as deadly as stated? yes i think it it is.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:24 pm

inmyopinion wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Researchers are watching closely, making sure that it is not down to false positives or negatives. So we are beyond that. They are quite concerned, as you might surmise. A miss is as good as a mile, and if Covid-19 turns out to defeat immune systems, katy bar the door.

For centuries we have been able to depend upon immunity to put an end to epidemics. It is taken for granted, so much so that we have developed sub-scripts like herd immunity and vaccines. If we cannot depend on immunity, particularly for a free, airborne virus, it is big trouble.

the current test has a huge percentage chance of a false positive according to many sources, that is a major issue, fortunately the rise in "alleged" cases is not causing a rise in deaths, so is it safe to assume it was never as deadly as stated? yes i think it it is.

But some tests, for research purposes, are more certain than others. I doubt when one is specifically researching a question, that one would cavalierly seize a less reliable test.

The whole effort is one of eliminating such games of chance, so you can get at the fact of the matter. This is an important question.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:28 pm



The Indianapolis Colts have reopened their practice facility on Friday after four positive Covid-19 test samples were re-tested and came back negative.

The Colts had closed their facility on Friday morning amid reports of 'several' positive coronavirus results, but a statement released by the team in the afternoon confirmed the four 'cases' were false positives.

The Colts are scheduled to have a home game on Sunday against the Cincinnati Bengals. That is expected to go ahead as planned.

Last Friday, the New York Jets closed their facility only to find out they experienced a false positive test. On Thursday, the Atlanta Falcons too closed theirs as a precautionary measure after reporting a second positive test in as many days.

On Friday, the Falcons reported no new positive results in their latest round of daily testing and so have reopened their facility.






You see... If it's happening there then it is probably widespread, with most people just accepting the false positive result and self isolating for 14 days.



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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:40 pm




And we are now doing over 300,000 tests a day... Still with positive tests showing in only about 5% of those tested...


So, for all those hundreds of thousands of people who think they've got it, and/or been exposed to it... Only 5% are coming back as positive result!!!


And the reason why it isn't going mental quickly like was thought to have happened back in February and march and April, is that the virus didn't arrive here in February and then go mental very quickly back then at all... It arrived late last year, pobably October/November, and was already quite widespread throughout the country by February... I had it myself at the beginning of February when it wasn't officially recognised as being in the country until a bit later on when it was announced that it was here and was believed to have got here on 31st January...


Also... Because loads of people here have already had it... There are less people who can catch it... Thus limiting the spread because of a low level of herd immunity.



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Post by Original Quill on Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:57 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The Indianapolis Colts have reopened their practice facility on Friday after four positive Covid-19 test samples were re-tested and came back negative.

My point exactly. You don't use tests created for mass utility, when doing laboratory research. There are many different tests, some more precise than others.

If you have an issue of worldwide importance, such as whether a virus can defeat immunity, you don't use a crescent wrench or a tire iron. You use the tools designed for precise, surgical procedure. You want tests that are more certain than those used for a sports team.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:11 pm

Tests are not accurate.

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Post by Syl on Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:15 pm

But hospital admissions, ICU beds being taken, and daily deaths from Covid19 are all increasing again....odd that.

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Post by Syl on Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:20 pm

And Tommy, were you ever tested for having the virus or are you just presuming you have had it because you had some sort of virus around the time you think coronavirus was introduced into the UK?

I had a horrendous virus in mid January as I have said before, it wasn't this one though.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:27 pm




I've already said this before... Never got tested as testing wasn't happening at that time, plus it was not even officially recognised as being in the country then either.


But it has been proved that this virus was in Paris before it was thought to have arrived there, and there are reports of this virus being here in UK in mid November too.



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Post by Syl on Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:16 am

Tommy Monk wrote:


I've already said this before... Never got tested as testing wasn't happening at that time, plus it was not even officially recognised as being in the country then either.


But it has been proved that this virus was in Paris before it was thought to have arrived there, and there are reports of this virus being here in UK in mid November too.


Yes sorry, I have asked you before but i forget the answer. Razz

Right, so you keep saying you have had coronavirus but you probably haven't.
At that time of year there are different flu's, colds, various viruses doing the rounds, I had norovirus, never had it before and hope never to have it again.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:34 am




Syl... I know that I had covid19...!

It is thought that at least 25% of UK population has had it by now!


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Post by Syl on Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:31 am

Tommy Monk wrote:


Syl... I know that I had covid19...!

It is thought that at least 25% of UK population has had it by now!


You think you did...and maybe you did.................but then maybe you didn't. Wink

I remember the first thread you wrote about this, you were convinced that everyone who had a virus early in the year probably had this coronavirus, but that's just guess work.
Many different viruses and bugs do the rounds in winter...and last winter was no exception.

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Post by Syl on Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:45 am

Tommy Monk wrote:


Syl... I know that I had covid19...!

It is thought that at least 25% of UK population has had it by now!


Tommy, that was just one study on the virus....a later study carried out 2 months after that one thought that only 7% of people in the UK had already been infected.
It's best to look at various studies and their findings rather than homing in on the one that suits your own opinion.

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Post by inmyopinion on Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:42 pm

Syl wrote:But hospital admissions, ICU beds being taken, and daily deaths from Covid19 are all increasing again....odd that.

well it proves, lockdowns, isolation and masks don't work.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:00 pm

inmyopinion wrote:
Syl wrote:But hospital admissions, ICU beds being taken, and daily deaths from Covid19 are all increasing again....odd that.

well it proves, lockdowns, isolation and masks don't work.

They stopped too soon. People were cavalier about precautions, and it came back. A virus is omnipresent...as soon as you turn your back and drop your guard, it's going to return. It's one of the things that scientists warned about pandemics all along.


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Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:00 pm


Syl... I definitely had it... It wasn't flu although many symptoms were 'flu like' for the first week, chronic fatigue, loss of taste and smell, aches and pains, bit of feeling hot and cold on and off, complete loss of appetite, was forcing myself to eat, sleeping for 14 hrs a night, and of course a bit of a cough... Then when those symptoms start to ease, I had another week where it turned into a bastard sore throat that felt like red hot shards of broken glass every time I swallowed, and bad chest with shortness of breath and felt like i had a lot of phlegm on my chest but nothing would cough up... Took another 3-4 weeks to feel


After I recovered, I worked in a hospital for 3 months where they were wheeling covid patients about and I was walking about the place near red zones, mixing with staff and sharing the canteen along side red zone medical staff, and never got any illness while there... Plus I've been taking minimal precautions since then too... I want to keep my immune system up to speed by being exposed to as much as usual...







Last edited by Tommy Monk on Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:04 pm

Syl wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


Syl... I know that I had covid19...!

It is thought that at least 25% of UK population has had it by now!


Tommy, that was just one study on the virus....a later study carried out 2 months after that one thought that only 7% of people in the UK had already been infected.
It's best to look at various studies and their findings rather than homing in on the one that suits your own opinion.


It is believed that for every case that needs hospital treatment, there are another 100 cases (at least) that don't...


So far here in UK there have been 150,000 hospital treated cases so far... x that by 100 = 15 million which = about a quarter of the UK population.



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Post by Syl on Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:27 pm

The lockdown obviously did work, as was seen by the drastically reduced number of cases, hospital admissions and deaths.

Unfortunately, as people restarted their lives, more public places reopened, uni's and colleges went back, the figures began to rise again.

In two weeks, in this area, if the hospital admissions carry on in the next two weeks as they have over the last two weeks, the numbers will be as high as they were in April when the virus was gathering momentum.

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Post by Syl on Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:40 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Syl... I definitely had it... It wasn't flu although many symptoms were 'flu like' for the first week, chronic fatigue, loss of taste and smell, aches and pains, bit of feeling hot and cold on and off, complete loss of appetite, was forcing myself to eat, sleeping for 14 hrs a night, and of course a bit of a cough... Then when those symptoms start to ease, I had another week where it turned into a bastard sore throat that felt like red hot shards of broken glass every time I swallowed, and bad chest with shortness of breath and felt like i had a lot of phlegm on my chest but nothing would cough up... Took another 3-4 weeks to feel


After I recovered, I worked in a hospital for 3 months where they were wheeling covid patients about and I was walking about the place near red zones, mixing with staff and sharing the canteen along side red zone medical staff, and never got any illness while there... Plus I've been taking minimal precautions since then too... I want to keep my immune system up to speed by being exposed to as much as usual...






With respect though Tommy, the symptoms you had could have been any virus that was doing the rounds. I had most of the symptoms you had, plus horrendous vertigo and sickness, and it also took me ages to feel well again.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:06 pm





Which I've already told you before, the vertigo is also a known symptom of covid19...


And trust me, what I had was not flu.



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Post by Syl on Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:



Which I've already told you before, the vertigo is also a known symptom of covid19...


And trust me, what I had was not flu.



Mine wasn't flu either, it was norovirus , which the GP diagnosed and which was doing the rounds at that time.
There was a variation in that it lasted far longer than normal norovirus and the dizziness isn't normal either, but that's what I, and possibly you had back then, which was around the same time I believe.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:33 pm




I never had norovirus.

I described what I had to a couple of medics in the hospital I worked in, and they were pretty sure it was covid19 too...

Another thing that really confirmed it to me was hearing Matt Hancock describe the symptoms he had while suffering from covid19...


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2d4wQ-Ac7f4





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Post by Syl on Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:42 pm

Peoples symptoms differ enormously though.
So much so some people hardly feel a twinge and others are dying like flies.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:52 pm




I had a whole range of symptoms... And the sore throat was something I've never had like that before, and I used to get quite bad tonsillitis as a kid every year...



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Post by Syl on Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:01 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:


I had a whole range of symptoms... And the sore throat was something I've never had like that before, and I used to get quite bad tonsillitis as a kid every year...



I get horrendous sore throats, starting off like you did with repeated tonsillitis when I was a kid, but I still get them frequently.
Oddly my throat wasn't too bad, but I have had viruses in the past where I have felt like you said...I was swallowing broken glass, so that can happen with any virus.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:10 pm



Never happened to me like that before... And overall the way I felt was different to any other flu/virus I've had before too...


The sore throat was that bad that I was actually drinking hot water with half a lemon squeezed in it plus a big glug of honey stirred in and with 2 soluble aspirins in it too, for the first time in my life... I tried strepsils and another brand of sore throat lozenges but they didn't touch the sides!


My honey and lemon and aspirin brew did actually work... But only so much as to reduce the pain to that of a regular sore throat...


And bear in mind that I was also taking paracetamol with codeine 500/30mg too...!






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Post by Syl on Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:59 pm

I couldn't even keep water down for a few days.
Whatever virus was around at that time, and I have never had anything like it before either....it was very odd.

I dont believe it was coronavirus that I had though....and I will be following government guidelines because I certainly dont want to catch it or spread it to anyone else.

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Post by inmyopinion on Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:28 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

Never happened to me like that before... And overall the way I felt was different to any other flu/virus I've had before too...


The sore throat was that bad that I was actually drinking hot water with half a lemon squeezed in it plus a big glug of honey stirred in and with 2 soluble aspirins in it too, for the first time in my life... I tried strepsils and another brand of sore throat lozenges but they didn't touch the sides!


My honey and lemon and aspirin brew did actually work... But only so much as to reduce the pain to that of a regular sore throat...


And bear in mind that I was also taking paracetamol with codeine 500/30mg too...!

tyrozets, they taste like aniseed and numb your throat, if i get ill it tends to go to my throat, I do the honey, lemon mix too.






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