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Post by inmyopinion on Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:34 pm

If you have to be tested to be told you have had a terrible killer virus, It really can't have been all that bad.

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:46 pm

inmyopinion wrote:If you have to be tested to be told you have had a terrible killer virus, It really can't have been all that bad.

What about diabetes?  They must test every day.  And more Americans die from diabetes every year than from AIDS and breast cancer combined. According to the CDC, 79,535 deaths in America occur each year due to diabetes.

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Post by inmyopinion on Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:09 am

Original Quill wrote:
inmyopinion wrote:If you have to be tested to be told you have had a terrible killer virus, It really can't have been all that bad.

What about diabetes?  They must test every day.  And more Americans die from diabetes every year than from AIDS and breast cancer combined. According to the CDC, 79,535 deaths in America occur each year due to diabetes.

you know if you have diabetes, their are symptoms, often serious, yet to be tested for a deadly palanneddemic and told you have had it and you never even noticed must say something about it's severity or lack thereof.

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Post by Vintage on Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:37 am

That's fine if you are talking about, possibly, a large section of the population, the problem is the people who end up in hospital and worse in intensive care, not only for their treatment but the fact that so many are so ill the hospitals fill up and other illnesses and treatments are affected because of this, plus medical and nursing staff becoming ill.
If having tests and vaccines stops people getting it in the first place surely its a better outcome for everyone. Seems logical unless you are a conspiracy theorist and think there'll be a tracer or something worse in the vaccine, if the government wanted to cull
the population I'm sure it could be done quite effectively without having to vaccinate a disease into everyone, easier to vaccinate to protect those you want to be sure to survive.

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Post by inmyopinion on Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:09 pm

Vintage wrote:That's fine if you are talking about, possibly, a large section of the population, the problem is the people who end up in hospital and worse in intensive care, not only for their treatment but the fact that so many are so ill the hospitals fill up and other illnesses and treatments are affected because of this, plus medical and nursing staff becoming ill.
If having tests and vaccines stops people getting it in the first place surely its a better outcome for everyone. Seems logical unless you are a conspiracy theorist and think there'll be a tracer or something worse in the vaccine, if the government wanted to cull
the population I'm sure it could be done quite effectively without having to vaccinate a disease into everyone, easier to vaccinate to protect those you want to be sure to survive.

to be sure to survive, you mean the 99.9 plus percent, we are not dealing with a deadly killer here and as I said if you have to be tested to be told you had it, surely it can't be that serious.

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Post by Vintage on Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:16 pm

As I said its ok if you are the lucky one and either have it mildly or no symptoms at all, it just makes you dangerous to someone who isn't so lucky as you, doesn't it.
I wouldn't want to be the cause of someone else's death just because I was either selfish or afraid of a vaccination.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:18 pm

inmyopinion wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

What about diabetes? They must test every day. And more Americans die from diabetes every year than from AIDS and breast cancer combined. According to the CDC, 79,535 deaths in America occur each year due to diabetes.

you know if you have diabetes, their are symptoms, often serious, yet to be tested for a deadly palanneddemic and told you have had it and you never even noticed must say something about its severity or lack thereof.

That's not good enough. There must be constant testing with Covid-19, in the same way that there must be constant testing with diabetes. It has to do with changing conditions of the disease. With diabetes, your blood sugar changes with each meal you consume. Covid is a socially contractual disease. With Covid, contraction changes with each exposure to a population. Continual testing is an absolute necessity during a pandemic.

As far as severity, apparently covid can be deadly in some cases and negligible (asymptomatic) in others. The asymptomatic individuals can still be ‘Typhoid Marys’, and act to spread a (deadly) disease even though it is negligible in them. We have to know and understand the contact tracing of the asymptomatic individuals, to determine where the danger is.

Why do you think marine biologists tag white sharks? To know where the danger is as the shark moves from one habitat to another. Same with a virus.

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Post by inmyopinion on Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:55 am

Original Quill wrote:
inmyopinion wrote:

you know if you have diabetes, their are symptoms, often serious, yet to be tested for a deadly palanneddemic and told you have had it and you never even noticed must say something about its severity or lack thereof.

That's not good enough.  There must be constant testing with Covid-19, in the same way that there must be constant testing with diabetes.  It has to do with changing conditions of the disease.  With diabetes, your blood sugar changes with each meal you consume.  Covid is a socially contractual disease.  With Covid, contraction changes with each exposure to a population.  Continual testing is an absolute necessity during a pandemic.

As far as severity, apparently covid can be deadly in some cases and negligible (asymptomatic) in others.  The asymptomatic individuals can still be ‘Typhoid Marys’, and act to spread a (deadly) disease even though it is negligible in them.  We have to know and understand the contact tracing of the asymptomatic individuals, to determine where the danger is.

Why do you think marine biologists tag white sharks?  To know where the danger is as the shark moves from one habitat to another.  Same with a virus.

It is a waste of money, itis not proving to be extremely dangerous, is you takeaway the media paranoia the majority would not have even noticed it.
The gov eve downgraded the severity the day before lockdown, which should tell us something and if you have to be tested to be told you have had it it cannot be that severe.

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Post by Syl on Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:28 pm

Many people are being tested (or trying to get a test) because they cant work, or cant send their child into school, unless they have had the test and it's clear.
If that's an NHS worker or other key workers, who are being prevented from working and they may just have a cold, I can see the need for testing.
If someone is off work and needs the money, or kids are being sent home from school, and they cant resume till they are tested negative....all valid reasons for people being tested.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:33 pm

inmyopinion wrote:…itis not proving to be extremely dangerous

Nor was WWII. Perhaps we would have been better off if Roosevelt had denied that Pearl Harbor was ever bombed. (He could call the emperor after things cooled down, and arrange to build a Roosevelt Hotel in Tokyo.) And Europe? A police-action. Child's play. (You guys should learn to settle down after momma turns the lights-out.)

Denial is turning out to be an excellent political tactic. Back in the day we had that nasty old 'truth' to deal with--like, 200,000 Covid deaths in the US alone; approaching 50,000 in the UK--but not since we've let go of our attachment to empirical science. Now it's just money, and katy bar the door!

I'm even considering getting El Chapo (Pablo Escobar) to run for President. He has the money, and the man is an incredibly clever businessman, who surely gets things done. Wink

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:33 pm




The best way to have dealt with this virus, and to start dealing with it now, is for the most vulnerable (over 70's and those with other serious health conditions) to stay at home and isolate/shield from risk of catching it, and let the vast majority of population to carry on as normal...


It wouldn't take too long before we are at a point where vast majority have had it and recovered just like they would have done from any other type of common cold or flu, and the virus has run out of new people to infect...



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Post by Original Quill on Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:41 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The best way to have dealt with this virus, and to start dealing with it now, is for the most vulnerable (over 70's and those with other serious health conditions) to stay at home and isolate/shield from risk of catching it, and let the vast majority of population to carry on as normal...

It wouldn't take too long before we are at a point where vast majority have had it and recovered just like they would have done from any other type of common cold or flu, and the virus has run out of new people to infect...

You ignore spread of the virus. And how is it going to go away? There is no evidence as to if/how immunity works with this virus. It could well spread, then re-spread, then re-spread...

I like your optimism, tho.


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Post by inmyopinion on Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:57 pm

Original Quill wrote:
inmyopinion wrote:…itis not proving to be extremely dangerous

Nor was WWII.  Perhaps we would have been better off if Roosevelt had denied that Pearl Harbor was ever bombed.  (He could call the emperor after things cooled down, and arrange to build a Roosevelt Hotel in Tokyo.)  And Europe?  A police-action.  Child's play. (You guys should learn to settle down after momma turns the lights-out.)

Denial is turning out to be an excellent political tactic.  Back in the day we had that nasty old 'truth' to deal with--like, 200,000 Covid deaths in the US alone; approaching 50,000 in the UK--but not since we've let go of our attachment to empirical science.  Now it's just money, and katy bar the door!

I'm even considering getting El Chapo (Pablo Escobar) to run for President.  He has the money, and the man is an incredibly clever businessman, who surely gets things done. Wink

You just like the sound of your own voice, did the war kill 0.004% of those involved.
It is killing a tiny percentage of people and only those who have already proved vulnerable. yet it is being treated like the plague.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:10 pm


Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:The best way to have dealt with this virus, and to start dealing with it now, is for the most vulnerable (over 70's and those with other serious health conditions) to stay at home and isolate/shield from risk of catching it, and let the vast majority of population to carry on as normal...

It wouldn't take too long before we are at a point where vast majority have had it and recovered just like they would have done from any other type of common cold or flu, and the virus has run out of new people to infect...

You ignore spread of the virus. And how is it going to go away? There is no evidence as to if/how immunity works with this virus. It could well spread, then re-spread, then re-spread...

I like your optimism, tho.




It's not optimism... It's realism...


The more people who have had it and recovered from it in society, then that means less and less people that can be newly infected by it... and if we have limited the exposure to the minority of people who are in the higher risk of death from the virus, then we soon get to a point where the vast majority of everyone else has had it and recovered from it (just like they would from any other cold/flu virus), and then the virus increasingly runs out of new people to infect, and subsequently disappears...



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Post by Vintage on Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:20 pm

It wasn't just over 70's that were dying from it though. Hospital mortuaries couldn't keep up and health boards had to create cold store facilities.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:29 pm




Ok... Let's say over 60's instead...


Although... It can be said that it is true that vast majority of those who died were over 60 and/or had serious underlying health conditions... It doesn't follow that all in these categories who contracted the virus ended up dying from it...


Huge numbers recovered from it just like they would have done from cold/flu...



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Post by Syl on Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:24 pm

I am over 60, my OH is over 60 with type 2 diabetes, statistically we are in the vulnerable group, which is why we stayed home for 4 months and even now have limited freedom.

There are millions of vibrant, healthy, young at heart  people who just happen to be older, who are talked about as if we are in our dotage. Just push us all indoors for another few months/years whilst everyone else ignores all the advice and continues to spread the virus amongst each other......with any luck we oldies will die of fucking boredom and leave the rest of society free to carry on without us. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:02 am

Syl wrote:I am over 60, my OH is over 60 with type 2 diabetes, statistically we are in the vulnerable group, which is why we stayed home for 4 months and even now have limited freedom.

There are millions of vibrant, healthy, young at heart  people who just happen to be older, who are talked about as if we are in our dotage. Just push us all indoors for another few months/years whilst everyone else ignores all the advice and continues to spread the virus amongst each other......with any luck we oldies will die of fucking boredom and leave the rest of society free to carry on without us. Rolling Eyes

I think the Trump virus has very little to do with age. It's probably a loose association with other age-related illnesses...combined, they weaken the host.

I'm the same age, and the virus has never touched me. If I've had it, I'm one of the asymptomatic. If I haven't, there must be some magic because I've often gone out...never hesitated.

The problem is, we don't understand it. The whole SARS class is a recently-jumped virus, and it is mutating with frightening speed. It's hard to pin it down. Even if we find a vaccine that really works, will it work next month, next week, even tomorrow?

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Post by inmyopinion on Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:32 am

Syl wrote:I am over 60, my OH is over 60 with type 2 diabetes, statistically we are in the vulnerable group, which is why we stayed home for 4 months and even now have limited freedom.

There are millions of vibrant, healthy, young at heart  people who just happen to be older, who are talked about as if we are in our dotage. Just push us all indoors for another few months/years whilst everyone else ignores all the advice and continues to spread the virus amongst each other......with any luck we oldies will die of fucking boredom and leave the rest of society free to carry on without us. Rolling Eyes
[/hide]
To right you shouldn't be allowed out at your age and in with your medical conditions, speading your germs, sit bak and watch your telly,you'll be fine. lol!
I'm type 2, never stayed in, visited my mum every day during lockdown, both strong, healthy and happy, never felt better, if those to terrified to go out want to stay in, stay in, if those are so terrified they need a mask, wear a mask, they can enjoy their paranoia any way they please but why should i be forced to prescribe to it.

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Post by Syl on Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:55 am

inmyopinion wrote:
Syl wrote:I am over 60, my OH is over 60 with type 2 diabetes, statistically we are in the vulnerable group, which is why we stayed home for 4 months and even now have limited freedom.

There are millions of vibrant, healthy, young at heart  people who just happen to be older, who are talked about as if we are in our dotage. Just push us all indoors for another few months/years whilst everyone else ignores all the advice and continues to spread the virus amongst each other......with any luck we oldies will die of fucking boredom and leave the rest of society free to carry on without us. Rolling Eyes
[/hide]
To right you shouldn't be allowed out at your age and in with your medical conditions, speading your germs, sit bak and watch your telly,you'll be fine. lol!
I'm type 2, never stayed in, visited my mum every day during lockdown, both strong, healthy and happy, never felt better, if those to terrified to go out want to stay in, stay in, if those are so terrified they need a mask, wear a mask, they can enjoy their paranoia any way they please but why should i be forced to prescribe to it.

We are going out and about again, but the vibe is still to push people of a certain age indoors for their own safety whilst younger people SHOULD be following guidelines but are obviously not, because if they do get it they will be OK anyway....it's just the old farts that die of it, so everything is well in their world.
It's selfish, someone said on here that if it affected the young rather than the old everyone would be adhering more to the rules....and I think that's spot on.

The ridiculous thing is loads of people are still working well into their 60's even 70's....or watching grandkids so parents can carry on working. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Syl on Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:57 am

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:I am over 60, my OH is over 60 with type 2 diabetes, statistically we are in the vulnerable group, which is why we stayed home for 4 months and even now have limited freedom.

There are millions of vibrant, healthy, young at heart  people who just happen to be older, who are talked about as if we are in our dotage. Just push us all indoors for another few months/years whilst everyone else ignores all the advice and continues to spread the virus amongst each other......with any luck we oldies will die of fucking boredom and leave the rest of society free to carry on without us. Rolling Eyes

I think the Trump virus has very little to do with age.  It's probably a loose association with other age-related illnesses...combined, they weaken the host.

I'm the same age, and the virus has never touched me.  If I've had it, I'm one of the asymptomatic.  If I haven't, there must be some magic because I've often gone out...never hesitated.

The problem is, we don't understand it.  The whole SARS class is a recently-jumped virus, and it is mutating with frightening speed.  It's hard to pin it down.  Even if we find a vaccine that really works, will it work next month, next week, even tomorrow?

You call it the Trump virus?? He calls it the Chinese virus, I think he is nearer the truth tnh.

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Post by inmyopinion on Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:05 pm

Syl wrote:
inmyopinion wrote:
[/hide]
To right you shouldn't be allowed out at your age and in with your medical conditions, speading your germs, sit bak and watch your telly,you'll be fine. lol!
I'm type 2, never stayed in, visited my mum every day during lockdown, both strong, healthy and happy, never felt better, if those to terrified to go out want to stay in, stay in, if those are so terrified they need a mask, wear a mask, they can enjoy their paranoia any way they please but why should i be forced to prescribe to it.

We are going out and about again, but the vibe is still to push people of a certain age indoors for their own safety whilst younger people SHOULD be following guidelines but are obviously not, because if they do get it they will be OK anyway....it's just the old farts that die of it, so everything is well in their world.
It's selfish, someone said on here that if it affected the young rather than the old everyone would be adhering more to the rules....and I think that's spot on.

The ridiculous thing is loads of people are still working well into their 60's even 70's....or watching grandkids so parents can carry on working. Rolling Eyes
labelled coffin dodgers, air thieves and a drain on the resources, all carefully perpetrated ..

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Post by Syl on Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:13 pm

My generation worked and paid taxes for 50 plus years, there were few benefits paid out, we brought up kids ourselves without relying on the state to pay for this and that whether we were in employment or not.
The joke is that many retired people are still a damn site more productive than many younger ones in many ways, not all obviously.......I generalise when I get mad. Razz

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Post by inmyopinion on Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:19 pm

Syl wrote:My generation worked and paid taxes for 50 plus years, there were few benefits paid out, we brought up kids ourselves without relying on the state to pay for this and that whether we were in employment or not.
The joke is that many retired people are still a damn site more productive than many younger ones in many ways, not all obviously.......I generalise when I get mad. Razz

I couldn't agree more but it worries me how long before we have a generation that retires having never worked.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:31 pm




Syl, you are totally getting the wrong end of the stick with what I was saying...


It's not about bollocks to the older people but a short period of protecting them while everyone else takes on the virus one to one by actually catching it and fighting it off, therefore creating herd immunity.



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Post by Original Quill on Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:27 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I think the Trump virus has very little to do with age.  It's probably a loose association with other age-related illnesses...combined, they weaken the host.

I'm the same age, and the virus has never touched me.  If I've had it, I'm one of the asymptomatic.  If I haven't, there must be some magic because I've often gone out...never hesitated.

The problem is, we don't understand it.  The whole SARS class is a recently-jumped virus, and it is mutating with frightening speed.  It's hard to pin it down.  Even if we find a vaccine that really works, will it work next month, next week, even tomorrow?

You call it the Trump virus?? He calls it the Chinese virus, I think he is nearer the truth tnh.

I disagree.  But it's a subjective matter.

Here's my reason: I believe that Trump did much more--and intentionally--to spread this virus worldwide.  With 4% of the world population, yet 25% of the covid cases, Trump's disregard for proper health practices has made the US a global laggard in the fight against the virus.

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Post by Vintage on Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:31 pm

How does that work if someone is a carrier, after everyone else gets immunity but some say that will only be on a short term basis.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:48 pm

Vintage wrote:How does that work if someone is a carrier, after everyone else gets immunity but some say that will only be on a short term basis.



Are you asking me?


If so, I'm happy to answee... but I'm not sure I properly understand your question?



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Post by Vintage on Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:17 pm

ok over 70's or whatever and others with existing medical problems are shielded until there's herd immunity in the general population, the virus burns out except in an asymptomatic carrier, everyone shielding comes back into society and catches the bus, plays bingo with the carrier - what happens then.

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:18 pm

Vintage wrote:How does that work if someone is a carrier, after everyone else gets immunity but some say that will only be on a short term basis.

The physicians are now suggesting there might not be an end to this virus.  Whether by rapid mutation, or by neutralizing immune cells, the virus defeats immune systems.  The AIDS virus does the same.

The only defense against AIDS is tracking (testing) and isolation (social distancing) so that the virus cannot spread.  This may be the same with Trump virus.  Incidentally, this virus is airborne.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:34 pm

Vintage wrote:ok over 70's or whatever and others with existing medical problems are shielded until there's herd immunity in the general population, the virus burns out except in an asymptomatic carrier, everyone shielding comes back into society and catches the bus, plays bingo with the carrier - what happens then.



Firstly, those in higher risk groups are not guaranteed to die if they catch this virus, vast majority will just feel like they've got a bad cold for a few days... And many will have already had it by now anyway, without even realising it, cos it has been going around since November 2019 here in uk...


The woman next door to me is 86 and reckons she had it in December... She was in hospital with pneumonia for a few days and then got better and back to normal...


But back to your question... Once we have herd immunity and the virus has run out of new people to infect and died out then there wouldn't be any 'carriers'... That's the whole point of what I'm saying...


And we are probably a lot closer to herd immunity than you might think... And would already be at herd immunity level by now had we done what I said, much earlier, and let the virus spread around to all the healthy under 50s/60s over the last few months instead of just slowing the spread and perpetuating the longevity of the virus and the length of time we are all having to put up with all the inconvenience with restrictions etc.



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Post by Syl on Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:49 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:


Syl, you are totally getting the wrong end of the stick with what I was saying...


It's not about bollocks to the older people but a short period of protecting them while everyone else takes on the virus one to one by actually catching it and fighting it off, therefore creating herd immunity.



Not just you Tommy, the message is everywhere.
Old people must be protected....old as in first the over 70's now it seems to be the over 60's are included in old.
Protected means staying home....not mixing.....not living the life they have left....for how long??

Now I can understand that if other people are following the rules re social distancing and not mixing in big groups, but so many are not. This results in the virus spreading, more infections, possible more deaths, and more older people being stuck at home till the 'danger' has gone.
I know people who live alone, and have stayed in for 7 MONTHS so far, they are now suffering with depression, are neglecting their health....and all because they are having it drummed in them that the virus is out there and they are the vulnerable ones who will either die or be very ill indeed if they catch it, which may be true....yet it seems half the population is acting as if everything is fine.

Herd immunity, that seems to be the go to phrase when explaining the oldies will be able to come out again one day...just wont happen if the virus mutates, and it's already mutating as any virus will.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:17 pm



"Older" people, not "old" people...

I was out Sunday in a pub for grub with my mum who is 72 and my sister and her fella who are mid 30's and another mate of mine who is 70...

Up until recently, my mum has barely gone out the front door while my 70 year old mate hasn't stopped doing anything over last few months, except not going to the pub when they were closed...

If you want to put your life on hold because of the media hype and scaremongering then it's only you who is suffering unnecessarily.

Put it in perspective a little bit... The true number of infections is thought to be 100 times for each hospital admission for the virus... Currently there has been just under 140,000 hospital admissions for it since February... So that means just under 14million actual cases who have had it and recovered and just over 40,000 have died... Vast majority of those who died were over 70 and had serious underlying health conditions...

Maybe you and your friend should get yourselves an antibody test which may well show you've already had it and therefore hiding away for nothing as you are already immune...

Another thing... This virus is mutating very slowly compared to other viruses... But any mutation is usually an error in replication in a virus whereby these changes render the virus less effective at infecting and replicating thereafter and therefore less harmful...




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Post by Original Quill on Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:00 pm

Ah tommy...you keep forgetting about spread. Even an asymptomatic person can still spread the virus. Your theory just creates a population of Typhoid Mary's.

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Post by Vintage on Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:37 pm

There were also reasonably young and healthy people getting very ill and quite a few dying as well.

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Post by inmyopinion on Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:40 pm

Vintage wrote:There were also reasonably young and healthy people getting very ill and quite a few dying as well.

according to figures the survival rates of 0-19 year olds is 99.997%, that is a tiny fatality rate.

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:09 pm

inmyopinion wrote:
Vintage wrote:There were also reasonably young and healthy people getting very ill and quite a few dying as well.

according to figures the survival rates of 0-19 year olds is 99.997%, that is a tiny fatality rate.

Not in this country. According to the New York Times, older children spread the corona virus just as much as adults. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-children-schools.html The US has 202,000 dead now.

The CDC says:

CDC wrote:Our review of the latest available data indicates that, while children who are infected with COVID-19 are more likely to be asymptomatic and less likely to experience severe disease (though a small subset become quite sick), they are capable of transmitting to both children and adults.

What remains unclear and where evidence is still needed is: whether children are less likely to be infected than adults and, when infected, the frequency and extent of their transmission to others. There is some evidence for an age gradient in infectiousness, with younger children less likely and older children more likely to transmit at levels similar to adults.
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/what-do-we-know-about-children-and-coronavirus-transmission/

What that means is they should stay away from schools and crowds.

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Post by inmyopinion on Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:38 pm

Original Quill wrote:
inmyopinion wrote:

according to figures the survival rates of 0-19 year olds is 99.997%, that is a tiny fatality rate.

Not in this country.  According to the New York Times, older children spread the corona virus just as much as adults.  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-children-schools.html  The US has 202,000 dead now.

The CDC says:

CDC wrote:Our review of the latest available data indicates that, while children who are infected with COVID-19 are more likely to be asymptomatic and less likely to experience severe disease (though a small subset become quite sick), they are capable of transmitting to both children and adults.

What remains unclear and where evidence is still needed is: whether children are less likely to be infected than adults and, when infected, the frequency and extent of their transmission to others. There is some evidence for an age gradient in infectiousness, with younger children less likely and older children more likely to transmit at levels similar to adults.
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/what-do-we-know-about-children-and-coronavirus-transmission/

What that means is they should stay away from schools and crowds.

the figures i gave were a US source.

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:41 pm

Now you've got it right from the authoritative source.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:29 am

Original Quill wrote:Ah tommy...you keep forgetting about spread. Even an asymptomatic person can still spread the virus. Your theory just creates a population of Typhoid Mary's.


I'm not talking about asymptomatic people being able to spread it to vulnerable groups... I'm saying shield the vulnerable high risk groups and let everyone else carry on as normal for a while so that the overwhelming vast majority of population, being very low risk of getting very ill/dying from it, have all had it and then the virus disappears and the whole population is then better protected from any new outbreaks because we have herd immunity!



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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:31 am

Vintage wrote:There were also reasonably young and healthy people getting very ill and quite a few dying as well.



Very very small numbers and there are always higher numbers of that age group dying every year from all the other viruses and infections that we have going round every year but don't shut down the country over...



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Post by Syl on Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:37 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

"Older" people, not "old" people...

I was out Sunday in a pub for grub with my mum who is 72 and my sister and her fella who are mid 30's and another mate of mine who is 70...

Up until recently, my mum has barely gone out the front door while my 70 year old mate hasn't stopped doing anything over last few months, except not going to the pub when they were closed...

If you want to put your life on hold because of the media hype and scaremongering then it's only you who is suffering unnecessarily.

Put it in perspective a little bit... The true number of infections is thought to be 100 times for each hospital admission for the virus... Currently there has been just under 140,000 hospital admissions for it since February... So that means just under 14million actual cases who have had it and recovered and just over 40,000 have died... Vast majority of those who died were over 70 and had serious underlying health conditions...

Maybe you and your friend should get yourselves an antibody test which may well show you've already had it and therefore hiding away for nothing as you are already immune...

Another thing... This virus is mutating very slowly compared to other viruses... But any mutation is usually an error in replication in a virus whereby these changes render the virus less effective at infecting and replicating thereafter and therefore less harmful...



Old or older.....does it matter?
They are being told to stay in again.....not to visit other households or have visitors......unless they are minding the grandkids whilst the parents work, then it seems it's OK.
Very confusing.
I dont need a test Tommy, I know so far I haven't had the virus, I dont need a test to confirm that......and if I did getting one in this area is almost impossible.
People have been directed to test centres miles away.....one woman was told Aberdeen was the only centre where she could get tested......a 700 mile round trip.
I am not hiding away, but I know some older people who have hardly been out in 7 months.

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Post by Maddog on Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:41 am

Syl wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

"Older" people, not "old" people...

I was out Sunday in a pub for grub with my mum who is 72 and my sister and her fella who are mid 30's and another mate of mine who is 70...

Up until recently, my mum has barely gone out the front door while my 70 year old mate hasn't stopped doing anything over last few months, except not going to the pub when they were closed...

If you want to put your life on hold because of the media hype and scaremongering then it's only you who is suffering unnecessarily.

Put it in perspective a little bit... The true number of infections is thought to be 100 times for each hospital admission for the virus... Currently there has been just under 140,000 hospital admissions for it since February... So that means just under 14million actual cases who have had it and recovered and just over 40,000 have died... Vast majority of those who died were over 70 and had serious underlying health conditions...

Maybe you and your friend should get yourselves an antibody test which may well show you've already had it and therefore hiding away for nothing as you are already immune...

Another thing... This virus is mutating very slowly compared to other viruses... But any mutation is usually an error in replication in a virus whereby these changes render the virus less effective at infecting and replicating thereafter and therefore less harmful...



Old or older.....does it matter?
They are being told to stay in again.....not to visit other households or have visitors......unless they are minding the grandkids whilst the parents work, then it seems it's OK.
Very confusing.
I dont need a test Tommy, I know so far I haven't had the virus, I dont need a test to confirm that......and if I did getting one in this area is almost impossible.
People have been directed to test centres miles away.....one woman was told Aberdeen was the only centre where she could get tested......a 700 mile round trip.
I am not hiding away, but I know some older people who have hardly been out in 7 months.

Jesus, we have tests on every damn corner it seems.

And you could have had it and been asymptomatic.

I had a friend who had no clue she had it until she went into the hospital and gave birth.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:45 am

inmyopinion wrote:
Vintage wrote:There were also reasonably young and healthy people getting very ill and quite a few dying as well.

according to figures the survival rates of 0-19 year olds is 99.997%, that is a tiny fatality rate.



And that is the figure that is calculated from known confirmed cases by positive test result and of those in that age group who have died from it...


When you calculate it by the more likely figure that there are probably about 100 cases for each case that requires hospital admission, currently estimated to be about 13.5 million actual cases here in UK, with only about 45,000 died it total, and only a miniscule fraction of a fraction of these deaths have been under the age of 20... Then the percentage is even smaller...


Those in the under 20 group are many times more likely to die from a whole list of everyday mundane things that nobody makes a fuss about and shut the country down over...



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Post by Maddog on Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:46 am

And if I want to know if I have the antibodies from having it in the past, I simply have to donate blood and they test me for free. I'm about to do that, because we have a shortage.

And because we are opening assisted living places to limited visitors, I have to go get a test to see if I currently have it, to visit my mom in her room.

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Post by Syl on Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:47 am

We have a test centre less than a mile from here, but getting an appointment seems to be next to impossible.
There are centres where you can just turn up and wait, I have heard of people queuing for hours, then being told to go home, they wont be tested that day.

I have to say this info comes from local radio and people phoning in, not my own experience.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:48 am

Syl wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

"Older" people, not "old" people...

I was out Sunday in a pub for grub with my mum who is 72 and my sister and her fella who are mid 30's and another mate of mine who is 70...

Up until recently, my mum has barely gone out the front door while my 70 year old mate hasn't stopped doing anything over last few months, except not going to the pub when they were closed...

If you want to put your life on hold because of the media hype and scaremongering then it's only you who is suffering unnecessarily.

Put it in perspective a little bit... The true number of infections is thought to be 100 times for each hospital admission for the virus... Currently there has been just under 140,000 hospital admissions for it since February... So that means just under 14million actual cases who have had it and recovered and just over 40,000 have died... Vast majority of those who died were over 70 and had serious underlying health conditions...

Maybe you and your friend should get yourselves an antibody test which may well show you've already had it and therefore hiding away for nothing as you are already immune...

Another thing... This virus is mutating very slowly compared to other viruses... But any mutation is usually an error in replication in a virus whereby these changes render the virus less effective at infecting and replicating thereafter and therefore less harmful...



Old or older.....does it matter?
They are being told to stay in again.....not to visit other households or have visitors......unless they are minding the grandkids whilst the parents work, then it seems it's OK.
Very confusing.
I dont need a test Tommy, I know so far I haven't had the virus, I dont need a test to confirm that......and if I did getting one in this area is almost impossible.
People have been directed to test centres miles away.....one woman was told Aberdeen was the only centre where she could get tested......a 700 mile round trip.
I am not hiding away, but I know some older people who have hardly been out in 7 months.



I said get an antibody test to see if you've had it... You can get reputable ones online for about £100...


You might have had it already and not even known...



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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:51 am




Anyway, over and out for tonight...


Goodnight y'all!



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Post by Syl on Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:57 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Syl wrote:
Old or older.....does it matter?
They are being told to stay in again.....not to visit other households or have visitors......unless they are minding the grandkids whilst the parents work, then it seems it's OK.
Very confusing.
I dont need a test Tommy, I know so far I haven't had the virus, I dont need a test to confirm that......and if I did getting one in this area is almost impossible.
People have been directed to test centres miles away.....one woman was told Aberdeen was the only centre where she could get tested......a 700 mile round trip.
I am not hiding away, but I know some older people who have hardly been out in 7 months.



I said get an antibody test to see if you've had it... You can get reputable ones online for about £100...


You might have had it already and not even known...


I have not had the virus ....I think i would know if i had.
I talked about having the norovirus in January.....one of the worst viruses I have had......but it wasn't coronavirus.

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Post by Syl on Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:58 am

Tommy Monk wrote:


Anyway, over and out for tonight...


Goodnight y'all!


Sleep well.

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