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Covid testing.

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Post by inmyopinion Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:34 pm

First topic message reminder :

If you have to be tested to be told you have had a terrible killer virus, It really can't have been all that bad.
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Post by inmyopinion Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:39 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

I heard a statistic on the radio last night...


Of all the covid19 deaths so far here in UK, only 0.6% are under 40... 1.4% are 40-50... And only about 3% are 50-60...

and we will never know if covid was the real cause or if they were very ill to start with.


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Post by Original Quill Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:43 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

I heard a statistic on the radio last night...

Of all the covid19 deaths so far here in UK, only 0.6% are under 40... 1.4% are 40-50... And only about 3% are 50-60...

Interesting. Assuming that Tories are like Republicans, that means that the RW is dying out. Take a look at that effect over here:

New York Magazine wrote:THE REPUBLICAN PARTY MAR. 28, 2019
The Republican Party Has an Older Voters Problem
By Eric Levitz@EricLevitz

This trend — and the challenges it poses for the Republican Party — have been widely discussed. And some conservative pundits have found comfort in the fact that, as millennials have moved left, graying baby-boomers have shuffled right. This might be a lousy trade in the long run (since, in the long run, boomers will all be dead). But in the immediate term, the GOP has derived a good deal of benefit from age polarization, as older voters cast ballots at much higher rates than the young ones do.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/the-republican-party-has-an-older-voters-problem.html

If Covid is killing off mostly old people, that means it is eliminating conservative votes. The Darwin effect, eh?

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Post by Tommy Monk Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:29 pm





But... The old saying goes like this...


If you're not a socialist in your 20's then you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative in your 30's then you have no brain...


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Post by Original Quill Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:33 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:But... The old saying goes like this...

If you're not a socialist in your 20's then you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative in your 30's then you have no brain...

Whatever.  The fact is, you are cheerleading the death of the Tory/Republican parties.  cheers

The remaining 30-year-olds will have no role models by which to drift to the right.  In fact, the general public is already far to the left of the Washington/Westminster right.  RW decay has set in.  Perhaps the pandemic is merely cleaning up.  Covid testing. - Page 3 2190311264

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Post by inmyopinion Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:12 pm

inmyopinion wrote:If you have to be tested to be told you have had a terrible killer virus, It really can't have been all that bad.

some claim the current test has an 80 plus% chance of showing a false positive just waiting for another WHO uturn.
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Post by Original Quill Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:48 pm

inmyopinion wrote:
inmyopinion wrote:If you have to be tested to be told you have had a terrible killer virus, It really can't have been all that bad.

some claim the current test has an 80 plus% chance of showing a false positive just waiting for another WHO uturn.

The answer to that is obvious: improve testing.  Not wanting to know is the idiot's option.

The plain fact is that this is a new microbe.  We need more information, and that means more experimentation and exploration.  What don't we know?  Is it vulnerable?  How?  Does the human immune system fail to detect and destroy it?  Why?  Why not?  Does the microbe 'avoid' the immune system?  How...through mutation, or by destruction of white blood cells (HIV, for example, infects and destroys certain white blood cells called CD4+ cells; if too many CD4+ cells are destroyed, the body can no longer defend itself against infection.)

There have been 212,000 deaths in the US so far this year from Covid-19.  By today's mortality-figure trends, if we try for herd immunity (assuming the microbe cannot defeat immune systems, as does AIDS), we in the US will have 6.4-million deaths before it is achieved.

Not wanting to know the answers to these and other questions is a form of panic.  Panic is a useless emotion in today's world.  There are no more saber-toothed tigers to ambush us.  God gave us reason to figure things out.  Knowing is better than not knowing.  It begins with testing.

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Post by inmyopinion Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:12 pm

Original Quill wrote:
inmyopinion wrote:

some claim the current test has an 80 plus% chance of showing a false positive just waiting for another WHO uturn.

The answer to that is obvious: improve testing.  Not wanting to know is the idiot's option.

The plain fact is that this is a new microbe.  We need more information, and that means more experimentation and exploration.  What don't we know?  Is it vulnerable?  How?  Does the human immune system fail to detect and destroy it?  Why?  Why not?  Does the microbe 'avoid' the immune system?  How...through mutation, or by destruction of white blood cells (HIV, for example, infects and destroys certain white blood cells called CD4+ cells; if too many CD4+ cells are destroyed, the body can no longer defend itself against infection.)

There have been 212,000 deaths in the US so far this year from Covid-19.  By today's mortality-figure trends, if we try for herd immunity (assuming the microbe cannot defeat immune systems, as does AIDS), we in the US will have 6.4-million deaths before it is achieved.

Not wanting to know the answers to these and other questions is a form of panic.  Panic is a useless emotion in today's world.  There are no more saber-toothed tigers to ambush us.  God gave us reason to figure things out.  Knowing is better than not knowing.  It begins with testing.

not wanting to know is not necessarily the idiots stance, if someone does not want us to know the truth so they are making it look bad is ingenious.
How do we, honestly, know how good the test is, when we rely on the, alleged, experts, who may well have a vested interest in not being honest?
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Post by Original Quill Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:46 pm

inmyopinion wrote:not wanting to know is not necessarily the idiots stance, if someone does not want us to know the truth so they are making it look bad is ingenious.
How do we, honestly, know how good the test is, when we rely on the, alleged, experts, who may well have a vested interest in not being honest?

We have perfectly good, scientific standards. All we have to do is follow them.

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Post by inmyopinion Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:58 pm

Original Quill wrote:
inmyopinion wrote:not wanting to know is not necessarily the idiots stance, if someone does not want us to know the truth so they are making it look bad is ingenious.
How do we, honestly, know how good the test is, when we rely on the, alleged, experts, who may well have a vested interest in not being honest?

We have perfectly good, scientific standards.  All we have to do is follow them.

yet we have lawyers taking countries to court over accepting expert opinion and not looking in to others opinions.
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Post by Tommy Monk Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:41 pm

Original Quill wrote:
inmyopinion wrote:

some claim the current test has an 80 plus% chance of showing a false positive just waiting for another WHO uturn.

The answer to that is obvious: improve testing.  Not wanting to know is the idiot's option.

The plain fact is that this is a new microbe.  We need more information, and that means more experimentation and exploration.  What don't we know?  Is it vulnerable?  How?  Does the human immune system fail to detect and destroy it?  Why?  Why not?  Does the microbe 'avoid' the immune system?  How...through mutation, or by destruction of white blood cells (HIV, for example, infects and destroys certain white blood cells called CD4+ cells; if too many CD4+ cells are destroyed, the body can no longer defend itself against infection.)

There have been 212,000 deaths in the US so far this year from Covid-19.  By today's mortality-figure trends, if we try for herd immunity (assuming the microbe cannot defeat immune systems, as does AIDS), we in the US will have 6.4-million deaths before it is achieved.

Not wanting to know the answers to these and other questions is a form of panic.  Panic is a useless emotion in today's world.  There are no more saber-toothed tigers to ambush us.  God gave us reason to figure things out.  Knowing is better than not knowing.  It begins with testing.



Only the other day you claimed this covid19 virus has been going around for years, and is in fact the same as SARS...


And I've already shown your 6.4million deaths figure to be bullshit.


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Post by Original Quill Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:48 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

The answer to that is obvious: improve testing.  Not wanting to know is the idiot's option.

The plain fact is that this is a new microbe.  We need more information, and that means more experimentation and exploration.  What don't we know?  Is it vulnerable?  How?  Does the human immune system fail to detect and destroy it?  Why?  Why not?  Does the microbe 'avoid' the immune system?  How...through mutation, or by destruction of white blood cells (HIV, for example, infects and destroys certain white blood cells called CD4+ cells; if too many CD4+ cells are destroyed, the body can no longer defend itself against infection.)

There have been 212,000 deaths in the US so far this year from Covid-19.  By today's mortality-figure trends, if we try for herd immunity (assuming the microbe cannot defeat immune systems, as does AIDS), we in the US will have 6.4-million deaths before it is achieved.

Not wanting to know the answers to these and other questions is a form of panic.  Panic is a useless emotion in today's world.  There are no more saber-toothed tigers to ambush us.  God gave us reason to figure things out.  Knowing is better than not knowing.  It begins with testing.

Only the other day you claimed this covid19 virus has been going around for years, and is in fact the same as SARS...

And I've already shown your 6.4million deaths figure to be bullshit.

Nope. You either misread or misunderstood. Covid is a derivative of SARS, but it is a new strain...a mutation. I believe it started earlier in 2019--Trump wants to say it started later, in order to cover up his delay--but it is a new strain.

According to current statistics as they stand today, in order to reach herd immunity, it would cost 6.4-million deaths. That's a fact, worked out by actuaries using present day numbers and the trends they reveal.

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Post by Tommy Monk Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:59 am




No.

I know what you said.

You said it was SARS and it's been going around since 2004.

Now you say it is a derivative of SARS which is also wrong

Your 6.4 million deaths figure is also totally wrong.




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Post by Original Quill Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:45 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

No.

I know what you said.

You said it was SARS and it's been going around since 2004.

Tommy, if you "know" what I said, you would prove it.  The easiest way to prove it is to point to the location where I said it...and bring it forward and quote it.  You haven't done that.  Why?  Because you cannot...there is even possibly some deception that you are hiding.  Either you have misunderstood, have taken some comment out of context, or you have twisted something to fit your thesis.

Now it is true that SARS appeared in the early 2000's:

Journal of Thoracic Disease wrote:The outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) pandemic in 2003 was a hallmark in human history, and will for sure be often recalled just like the “Spain influenza” in literature.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747529/

SARS subsequently jumped species, from bats to humans and others.  In these transitions, the microbe went through a series of mutations:

Journal of Thoracic Disease wrote:The SARS virus carried by bats is quite different from that found in human body, whereas the virus carried by civets has much higher homology. There is a possibility that the virus spread from bats to civets, in which it experienced some mutations before it was transmitted to human beings. However, there lacked sufficient evidences.

Eventually, it evolved into the Covid-19 that we know today...a passing stopover on the evolutionary train.  It is still evolving, and who knows what it will be tomorrow?  Because it is still evolving, no one can predict what it will lead to in the future.  Will it be worse in humans?  There are so many questions to which we have no answers.

It has killed 220,000 people in the US, yet many others are asymptomatic...why?  It seems so deadly one time, yet it is so passive the next.  What do the lucky ones have in their systems, and can we develop that and give it to the unlucky?

And spread is a whole other area of inquiry; why do the asymptomatic ones spread as easily as the symptomatic?

Along the way, we don't yet know whether it can defeat the immune system.  So, we don't even know whether a vaccine is possible.

The behavior of this microbe is unlike so many others, it has confused even presidents and other politicos.  They can’t even differentiate between the dangers of illness/death, and the dangers of spread.  Pffft…some of them say, I will be over it in two days.  But the guy in the next bed died overnight.  How about that?

And, presumably, both of them are at risk of spread, so that the person who escaped death, carries it home and gives it to the children or parents, and they die.

A lot of research to do, a lot of questions to answer.  Yet, the stupid ones are holding the intelligent back.  As you can see, this microbe requires more complex answers, not less.  Yet the stupid ones see rabbit-holes in one experience or the next, and think the answer is found.  The orange idiot thinks it will be over in a week.  He is talking about this own case, yet we know that 220,000 others have died, and the toll is still climbing.

Herd immunity may well be a myth with this virus.  We have no idea that immunity is even achievable with it.  It seems to allude counter-attack by mutating so fast.  And, like HIV, it might even attack immune cells and defeat immunity directly.  But based upon current statistical trends, if herd immunity is even a possibility it will take an estimated 6.4 million deaths to get there.


Last edited by Original Quill on Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:25 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by inmyopinion Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:10 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

No.

I know what you said.

You said it was SARS and it's been going around since 2004.

Tommy, if you "know" what I said, you would prove it.  The easiest way to prove it is to point to the location where I said it...and bring it forward and quote it.  You haven't done that.  Why?  Because you cannot...there is even possibly some deception that you are hiding.  Either you have misunderstood, have taken some comment out of context, or you have twisted something to fit your thesis.

Now it is true that SARS appeared in the early 2000's:

Journal of Thoracic Disease wrote:The outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) pandemic in 2003 was a hallmark in human history, and will for sure be often recalled just like the “Spain influenza” in literature.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747529/

SARS subsequently jumped species, from bats to humans and others.  In these transitions, the microbe went through a series of mutations:

Journal of Thoracic Disease wrote:The SARS virus carried by bats is quite different from that found in human body, whereas the virus carried by civets has much higher homology. There is a possibility that the virus spread from bats to civets, in which it experienced some mutations before it was transmitted to human beings. However, there lacked sufficient evidences.

Eventually, it evolved into the Covid-19 that we know today...a passing stopover on the evolutionary train.  It is still evolving, and who knows what it will be tomorrow?  Because it is still evolving, no one can predict what it will lead to in the future.  Will it be worse in humans?  There are so many questions to which we have no answers.

It has killed 220,000 people in the US, yet many others are asymptomatic...why?  It seems so deadly one time, yet it is so passive the next.  What do the lucky ones have in their systems, and can we develop that and give it to the unlucky?

And spread is a whole other area of inquiry; why do the asymptomatic ones spread as easily as the symptomatic?

Along the way, we don't yet know whether it can defeat the immune system.  So, we don't even know whether a vaccine is possible.

The behavior of this microbe is unlike so many others, it has confused even presidents and other politicos.  They can’t even differentiate between the dangers of illness/death, and the dangers of spread.  Pffft…some of them say, I will be over it in two days.  But the guy in the next bed died overnight.  How about that?

And, presumably, both of then are at risk of spread, so that the person who escaped death, carries it home and gives it to the children or parents, and they die.

A lot of research to do, a lot of questions to answer.  Yet, the stupid ones are holding the intelligent back.  As you can see, this microbe requires more complex answers, not less.  Yet the stupid ones see rabbit-holes in one experience or the next, and think the answer is found.  The orange idiot thinks it will be over in a week.  He is talking about this own case, yet we know that 220,000 others have died, and the toll is still climbing.

Herd immunity may well be a myth with this virus.  We have no idea that immunity is even achievable with it.  It seems to allude counter-attack by mutating so fast.  And, like HIV, it might even attack immune cells and defeat immunity directly.  But based upon current statistical trends, if herd immunity is even a possibility it will take an estimated 6.4 million deaths to get there.

it's not evolving it is being engineered.
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Post by Tommy Monk Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:11 pm



You said it was SARS... And I had to correct you...


I'll have a trawl through previous posts when I can be bothered...


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Post by Original Quill Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:15 pm

inmyopinion wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Tommy, if you "know" what I said, you would prove it.  The easiest way to prove it is to point to the location where I said it...and bring it forward and quote it.  You haven't done that.  Why?  Because you cannot...there is even possibly some deception that you are hiding.  Either you have misunderstood, have taken some comment out of context, or you have twisted something to fit your thesis.

Now it is true that SARS appeared in the early 2000's:



SARS subsequently jumped species, from bats to humans and others.  In these transitions, the microbe went through a series of mutations:



Eventually, it evolved into the Covid-19 that we know today...a passing stopover on the evolutionary train.  It is still evolving, and who knows what it will be tomorrow?  Because it is still evolving, no one can predict what it will lead to in the future.  Will it be worse in humans?  There are so many questions to which we have no answers.

It has killed 220,000 people in the US, yet many others are asymptomatic...why?  It seems so deadly one time, yet it is so passive the next.  What do the lucky ones have in their systems, and can we develop that and give it to the unlucky?

And spread is a whole other area of inquiry; why do the asymptomatic ones spread as easily as the symptomatic?

Along the way, we don't yet know whether it can defeat the immune system.  So, we don't even know whether a vaccine is possible.

The behavior of this microbe is unlike so many others, it has confused even presidents and other politicos.  They can’t even differentiate between the dangers of illness/death, and the dangers of spread.  Pffft…some of them say, I will be over it in two days.  But the guy in the next bed died overnight.  How about that?

And, presumably, both of then are at risk of spread, so that the person who escaped death, carries it home and gives it to the children or parents, and they die.

A lot of research to do, a lot of questions to answer.  Yet, the stupid ones are holding the intelligent back.  As you can see, this microbe requires more complex answers, not less.  Yet the stupid ones see rabbit-holes in one experience or the next, and think the answer is found.  The orange idiot thinks it will be over in a week.  He is talking about this own case, yet we know that 220,000 others have died, and the toll is still climbing.

Herd immunity may well be a myth with this virus.  We have no idea that immunity is even achievable with it.  It seems to allude counter-attack by mutating so fast.  And, like HIV, it might even attack immune cells and defeat immunity directly.  But based upon current statistical trends, if herd immunity is even a possibility it will take an estimated 6.4 million deaths to get there.

it's not evolving it is being engineered.

Proof please?

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Post by Original Quill Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:24 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

You said it was SARS... And I had to correct you...

I'll have a trawl through previous posts when I can be bothered...

I said it is a SARS derivative. And so it is. It originally came from bats, jumped most likely to civets, and then to us.

I don't think you can find any proof that I ever said otherwise ... most likely, you are looking for 'cover up'. Until you provide proof, we will remain in a state of doubt as required by appropriate skepticism. Twisted Evil

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Post by inmyopinion Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:30 pm

Original Quill wrote:
inmyopinion wrote:

it's not evolving it is being engineered.

Proof please?

prove it evolved without any help????????
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Post by Original Quill Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:42 pm

inmyopinion wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Proof please?

prove it evolved without any help????????

Simple. All organisms evolve.

Very few organisms are engineered...it takes an act of intervention. That's why I say, prove it. Covid testing. - Page 3 2190311264

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Post by Tommy Monk Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:50 pm

Quil, you said it is a mutation of the SARS virus and has been going around directly from SARS... And here are the relevant posts...







Quill :
The physicians in the trenches are telling me they were seeing it back in July, 2019. But they had no official capacity by which to declare it.


Tommy :
It originated in China in September 2019... Not in US in July...


Quill :
Bullshit. Covid-19 is just a variant of SARS. SARS was discovered in 2003. It's been mutating, going round the world a couple of dozen times each year.

Covid-19 is just the latest iteration...a mutation.




From this thread...

https://newsfix.niceboard.com/t29223p50-so-is-christmas-2020-cancelled-now#555174




I think that is conclusive proof to back up what I said... But no doubt you will twist and turn, like a twisty turny thing... (Lord Melchett to Blackadder).


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Post by inmyopinion Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:17 pm

Original Quill wrote:
inmyopinion wrote:

prove it evolved without any help????????

Simple.  All organisms evolve.

Very few organisms are engineered...it takes an act of intervention.  That's why I say, prove it.  Covid testing. - Page 3 2190311264

why does it matter how many are engineered, it does not mean this one wasn't.
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Post by Ben Reilly Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:20 pm

inmyopinion wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
inmyopinion wrote:

prove it evolved without any help????????

Simple.  All organisms evolve.

Very few organisms are engineered...it takes an act of intervention.  That's why I say, prove it.  Covid testing. - Page 3 2190311264

why does it matter how many are engineered, it does not mean this one wasn't.

Many scientists from all over the world have studied the virus intensively and none of them say that it looks to have been engineered in any way.
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Post by Tommy Monk Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:20 pm



And I also corrected you about the origin of SARS virus being in 2002, not 2003 as you claimed...


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Post by Tommy Monk Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:31 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
inmyopinion wrote:

why does it matter how many are engineered, it does not mean this one wasn't.

Many scientists from all over the world have studied the virus intensively and none of them say that it looks to have been engineered in any way.


From what I have read, I agree that it is not thought by experts that this virus looks to have been 'engineered'... Although this is not conclusive proof that it hasn't been... And it says nothing about the possibility that this virus has escaped from a lab from samples under study/investigation etc... And it says nothing about the possibility that some rogue actor deliberately released this virus from somewhere in a nefarious/surreptitious way...


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Post by Ben Reilly Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:13 pm

If the virus is natural, i.e. not engineered, it's unlikely that it escaped from a lab or was released by a rogue actor.

Experts on viruses, who have studied natural and modified viruses, conclude that this virus is natural.
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Post by Original Quill Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:39 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Quil, you said it is a mutation of the SARS virus and has been going around directly from SARS... And here are the relevant posts...
 
Quill :    
The physicians in the trenches are telling me they were seeing it back in July, 2019. But they had no official capacity by which to declare it.

Tommy :  
It originated in China in September 2019... Not in US in July...

Quill :
Bullshit. Covid-19 is just a variant of SARS. SARS was discovered in 2003. It's been mutating, going round the world a couple of dozen times each year.

Covid-19 is just the latest iteration...a mutation.

From this thread...

https://newsfix.niceboard.com/t29223p50-so-is-christmas-2020-cancelled-now#555174

I think that is conclusive proof to back up what I said... But no doubt you will twist and turn, like a twisty turny thing... (Lord Melchett to Blackadder).

Tommy, all that you bring to us backs up everything I said.  Thank you.

Covid-10 is a derivative of SARS. SARS came about in and around 2003. SARS has been mutating since it was first discovered. The physicians in the trenches are telling me they were seeing it back in July, 2019. Laughing

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Post by Tommy Monk Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:29 am

Ben Reilly wrote:If the virus is natural, i.e. not engineered, it's unlikely that it escaped from a lab or was released by a rogue actor.

Experts on viruses, who have studied natural and modified viruses, conclude that this virus is natural.



There are plenty of natural viruses that are not in circulation in the general public .. but do exist in labs around the world...


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Post by Tommy Monk Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:32 am

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Quil, you said it is a mutation of the SARS virus and has been going around directly from SARS... And here are the relevant posts...
 
Quill :    
The physicians in the trenches are telling me they were seeing it back in July, 2019. But they had no official capacity by which to declare it.

Tommy :  
It originated in China in September 2019... Not in US in July...

Quill :
Bullshit. Covid-19 is just a variant of SARS. SARS was discovered in 2003. It's been mutating, going round the world a couple of dozen times each year.

Covid-19 is just the latest iteration...a mutation.

From this thread...

https://newsfix.niceboard.com/t29223p50-so-is-christmas-2020-cancelled-now#555174

I think that is conclusive proof to back up what I said... But no doubt you will twist and turn, like a twisty turny thing... (Lord Melchett to Blackadder).

Tommy, all that you bring to us backs up everything I said.  Thank you.

Covid-10 is a derivative of SARS. SARS came about in and around 2003. SARS has been mutating since it was first discovered. The physicians in the trenches are telling me they were seeing it back in July, 2019. Laughing


No... What I showed is that you are talking shit!


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Post by Original Quill Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:40 am

Tommy Monk wrote:No... What I showed is that you are talking shit!

No...it's all there, just as I've said all along. You've just proved it.

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Post by Tommy Monk Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:05 am




It's all there alright...!


Showing that you are talking shit!!!


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Post by Original Quill Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:22 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:It's all there alright...!

Showing that you are talking shit!!!

I am talking exactly what you are talking. You have proved my point, confirming everything I have said.

Is that the best you can do?  I'll be back with you've got something.

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Post by Original Quill Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:15 pm

Behind the scenes, WH workers confirm that the Trump administration is pursuing a herd immunity strategy. Trump believes that the population must go through the illness and will come out on the other side with herd immunity.

What is interesting is that all signs point to this virus having no immunity. Immunity is an empirical thing, where investigators do not know what it is. They just know it exists.

In fact, scientists have found that there are two immune systems. Initially, there is the auto-immune system, which simply rejects any foreign presence that doesn’t belong in the body. That is why organ transplants must have immune-suppressant drugs.

More complex is the adaptive immune system, which seems to figure out the invading agent or microbe and design a counter-attack that eliminates or neutralizes it. This latter is what we mean when we speak of developing an immunity to the disease or virus.

Vaccine development attempts to build on adaptive immunity, by reverse-engineering the adaptation, and seeing what neutralized the bug. Scientists focus on the cells of the agent that eliminated the bug, and try to develop a mix which “immunizes” against any subsequent bugs. Vaccines are supposed to recreate the bodies process, and develop an immunity to the bug.

This leaves open the question, what if a virus comes along where the adaptive immune system doesn't work? What if an episode of the disease plays out, but leaves the body unable to resist the next invasion? There is no guarantee that the bug leaves behind a formula for immunity.

If we run across a virus like that, there can be no herd immunity. Herd immunity depends on individuals, each developing some sort of adaptive cells to combat the virus. Perhaps, then, we can develop a vaccine. But if there is no successful adaptative cell left behind, the virus is free to return to the body whenever it encounters it.

In researching Covid-19 scientists have found individuals who have become re-infected, suggesting there may be no immunity to it. If so, any attempt at herd immunity will fall flat, and we will be left with infinite rounds of infection, with increasing deaths with each round.

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Post by Tommy Monk Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:42 pm




Quill... You said this covid19 virus has been going around for years and is SARS that has mutated over time.


This is simply not true.


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Post by Original Quill Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:06 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:


Quill... You said this covid19 virus has been going around for years and is SARS that has mutated over time.

This is simply not true.

No, I said that SARS has been going around for years. Pay attention.

Covid-19 is a peculiarly vicious variant of SARS. It arose in the middle of last year, according to medical researchers that I have talked to. The US government first noted it in December, 2019, in a threat assessment to the WH put on by national security analysts. On January 3rd it was confirmed by Dr. Redfield.

On January 30th Trump was told it will be the greatest threat to his administration. Still, he tried to sweep it under the rug because of the threat to the economy, and particularly the stock market...the rich man's economy. He tried to "wish" it away, without success.

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Post by Tommy Monk Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:09 pm




You keep talking shit... SARS has not been going around for years, and I've already corrected you on this, there have not been any recorded cases since 2004.


And covid19 is not a variant/mutation/derivative of SARS.


How many times do I have to keep correcting you on this, only for you to keep on saying the same shit???


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Post by Tommy Monk Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:20 pm




Another thing... SARS was much more deadly as it killed around 10% of people who got it... Covid19 is nearer 0.1-0.5%... and possibly even lower than that because here in UK it doesn't matter what seriousness illnesses a person might have and might have died of, if they have tested positive for covid19 then it is automatically listed as a covid19 death.

So the death figure here is much higher than actual number of deaths from covid19.


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Post by Syl Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:07 am

I dont know how you can think SARS was more deadly than Corvid 19.
It was contained quickly and only killed 774 people globally.
Corvid19 has so far killed well over 1,000,000 and is gaining momentum again for a second wave.
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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:25 am




Because it had a death rate of nearly 10%.


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Post by Syl Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:07 am

But it was obviously nowhere near as infectious and a lot easier to contain.

I would say a virus that killed a million plus in 8 months was deadlier than one that killed 774 in 18 months.
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Post by Original Quill Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:19 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

You keep talking shit... SARS has not been going around for years, and I've already corrected you on this, there have not been any recorded cases since 2004.

And covid19 is not a variant/mutation/derivative of SARS.

How many times do I have to keep correcting you on this, only for you to keep on saying the same shit???

Waffle.

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Post by Syl Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:40 am

https://www.healthline.com/health/coronavirus-vs-sars
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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:14 pm




But still more deadly if it killed 10% of those who contracted it.


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Post by Original Quill Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:36 pm

healthline wrote:Both COVID-19 and SARS are caused by coronaviruses. The virus that causes SARS is known as SARS-CoV, while the virus that causes COVID-19 is known as SARS-CoV-2. There are also other types of human coronaviruses.

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:12 pm

Yes I know quill ..


Different.


Not the same.


Covid19 didn't come from SARS.


It is not a derivative of SARS.


There have not been any recorded cases of SARS since 2004.


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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:01 pm

Syl wrote:https://www.healthline.com/health/coronavirus-vs-sars


From your link above...


"...SARS is much more deadly than COVID-19. The estimated mortality rate is about 10 percentTrusted Source. .."


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Post by Original Quill Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:09 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Yes I know quill ..

Different.

Not the same.

Covid19 didn't come from SARS.

It is not a derivative of SARS.

There have not been any recorded cases of SARS since 2004.

Prove it is not the same. All the research is to the contrary. SARS was found in 2003-4, and Covid-19 was confirmed to exist in late 2019. Both are corona viruses.

All of the evidence says that SARS is a predecessor of Covid-19. See. Kumar, "A chronicle of SARS-CoV-2: Part-I - Epidemiology, diagnosis, prognosis, transmission and treatment", Science Direct (10 Sept. 20).

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Post by Syl Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:15 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Syl wrote:https://www.healthline.com/health/coronavirus-vs-sars


From your link above...


"...SARS is much more deadly than COVID-19. The estimated mortality rate is about 10 percentTrusted Source. .."



Yes it does say that....but as it was so easily contained, it was a lot less deadly that the present virus re spread and mortality rate.
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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:34 pm

Syl wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


From your link above...


"...SARS is much more deadly than COVID-19. The estimated mortality rate is about 10 percentTrusted Source. .."



Yes it does say that....but as it was so easily contained, it was a lot less deadly that the present virus re spread and mortality rate.


Yes it was quickly spotted and contained very early on because those who got it became very unwell very quickly... Unlike this covid19 virus which passes around the vast majority of people with either no symptoms or mild to moderate symptoms very much like would be experienced by someone who had a cold or flu...


But the SARS virus was much more harmful to those who got it, and killed 10% of those who got it, and that was even though the vast majority got treatment and drugs which saved many of the survivors...


And if it had become widespread throughout the world, that could have been up to 800,000,000 deaths... And possibly even more as the healthcare systems would have been completely overrun and unable to treat and save 100s of millions more...



While this covid19 virus leaves an estimated 1 out of every 100 infected by it needing hospital treatment and about 70% of those needing hospital treatment end up getting better... Pretty much like the figures you would expect to see from a bad flu season...







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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:38 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Yes I know quill ..

Different.

Not the same.

Covid19 didn't come from SARS.

It is not a derivative of SARS.

There have not been any recorded cases of SARS since 2004.

Prove it is not the same. All the research is to the contrary. SARS was found in 2003-4, and Covid-19 was confirmed to exist in late 2019. Both are corona viruses.

All of the evidence says that SARS is a predecessor of Covid-19. See. Kumar, "A chronicle of SARS-CoV-2: Part-I - Epidemiology, diagnosis, prognosis, transmission and treatment", Science Direct (10 Sept. 20).



So now you are saying it is the same...?


Make your mind up!!!


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Post by Syl Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:32 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Syl wrote:

Yes it does say that....but as it was so easily contained, it was a lot less deadly that the present virus re spread and mortality rate.


Yes it was quickly spotted and contained very early on because those who got it became very unwell very quickly... Unlike this covid19 virus which passes around the vast majority of people with either no symptoms or mild to moderate symptoms very much like would be experienced by someone who had a cold or flu...


But the SARS virus was much more harmful to those who got it, and killed 10% of those who got it, and that was even though the vast majority got treatment and drugs which saved many of the survivors...


And if it had become widespread throughout the world, that could have been up to 800,000,000 deaths... And possibly even more as the healthcare systems would have been completely overrun and unable to treat and save 100s of millions more...



While this covid19 virus leaves an estimated 1 out of every 100 infected by it needing hospital treatment and about 70% of those needing hospital treatment end up getting better... Pretty much like the figures you would expect to see from a bad flu season...







Yes SARS was contained quickly, had it not been it could have been comparable to the Spanish flu 100 years ago.

Tommy, this present virus cant be compared to the flu, and we have been through the figures before.
The figures you quoted comparing coronavirus deaths  to flu annual deaths were wrong, you admitted that.
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