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Four Minnesota police officers fired after black man dies in custody

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed May 27, 2020 1:19 am

First topic message reminder :

Four Minnesota police officers have been fired after the death of a black man who was taken into custody and seen on video being pinned down by his neck.
Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arradondo said the four officers were now "former employees".
Footage shows the man, George Floyd, groaning and repeatedly saying "I can't breathe" to the white officer.
The incident echoed that of Eric Garner, a black man who died being arrested in New York City in 2014.
The FBI has said it will investigate the Minneapolis incident, which took place on Monday evening.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52806572

So ... Minneapolis is a pretty big city up in the north of the U.S. ... can we blame this man's death on Southerners in any way?

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Post by JulesV on Sun May 31, 2020 12:19 am

Cass wrote:Didge if you look in, I didn’t get a chance to say take care of yourself. Stepping away did me a world of good. Read some good books and eat some good food.

Didge has deleted his account NUMEROUS times. He will be back next week posting prolifically as if nothing happened.

I have not seen him saying anything racist and I don't think he is racist.

However he can be overbearing and aggressive. And obnoxiously unpleasant when his opinion is disagreed with.  

Another thing : he is as preachy as Quill or anyone else. He preaches in most of his threads. If Quill is a preaching professor, so is he.

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Post by JulesV on Sun May 31, 2020 12:22 am

This Floyd case got completely out of hand because the various leaders failed to grasp how powerful a visual image can be.

They should have moved fast and taken charge of the situation.  I cannot believe the police bosses sat back and did nothing for 3 days, until their hand was forced by the widespread condemnation.

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Post by Maddog on Sun May 31, 2020 12:33 am

JulesV wrote:This Floyd case got completely out of hand because the various leaders failed to grasp how powerful a visual image can be.

They should have moved fast and taken charge of the situation.  I cannot believe the police bosses sat back and did nothing for 3 days, until their hand was forced by the widespread condemnation.

What does take charge even mean?

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Post by Maddog on Sun May 31, 2020 12:36 am

gelico wrote:
Maddog wrote:

It's unlikely he has friends of any a skin color. Who could tolerate being in close proximity to the sanctimonious prick?


lol, quill has his good points but he is definitely the most racist person i've come across on this forum.  i've seen it time and again with him

so watching him trying to label didge (of all people) as racist was comical

shame didge reacted the way he did.  i know he's got other shit going on is why he was affected

but he shoulda just laughed at him imo

Rolling Eyes


What are his good points?

His support of eugenics?

Reckon his last name is Mengele?

Maybe that's how he knows Eastern Europeans are inferior?

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Post by Cass on Sun May 31, 2020 12:43 am

Maddog wrote:
JulesV wrote:This Floyd case got completely out of hand because the various leaders failed to grasp how powerful a visual image can be.

They should have moved fast and taken charge of the situation.  I cannot believe the police bosses sat back and did nothing for 3 days, until their hand was forced by the widespread condemnation.

What does take charge even mean?  

Well I’m thinking if they fired him and charged him and the others by the next day, none of this mess would be happening right now.

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Post by Maddog on Sun May 31, 2020 12:55 am

Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:

What does take charge even mean?  

Well I’m thinking if they fired him and charged him and the others by the next day, none of this mess would be happening right now.

They fired him the next day. Charges took a couple days. He's arrested and I promise you all hell is going to break loose tonight anyway.

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Post by Maddog on Sun May 31, 2020 12:57 am

Four Minnesota police officers fired after black man dies in custody - Page 3 Dan10


Her Daddys killer is free. But his life wasn't worth a riot.

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Post by Original Quill on Sun May 31, 2020 3:02 am

Divert and divide. Look over there, not over here.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun May 31, 2020 2:22 pm





They don't really give a fuck... Just see it as a good excuse to rob some shops...



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Post by Original Quill on Sun May 31, 2020 3:56 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:They don't really give a fuck... Just see it as a good excuse to rob some shops...

Tommy, you were indignant when the EU started taking over some British prerogatives. That led to Brexit. Now the black community in America is indignant when RW white supremacists start taking their lives. That's lives, tom, not mere prerogatives and pride.

But I guess that's all right for you, because in your head one black life = some trinkets in a variety store. Suppose the tables were turned, and it was Englishmen that were being killed by jackbooted police of some other race or species? Would you concern yourself that much with trinkets?

Lives vs. property. It's amazing how much Anglo-Americans love their 'private property', that they so cavalierly toss away a human life to worry about some merchandise.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun May 31, 2020 4:11 pm





Yeah... and robbing a few shops makes it all better, doesn't it...



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Post by Original Quill on Sun May 31, 2020 4:39 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Yeah... and robbing a few shops makes it all better, doesn't it...

You are asking for my opinion on consequences.  I cannot predict the future, so I have no idea whether looting is good or bad.  When hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, people had to resort to looting in order to obtain the necessities of life.  Stores were closed.  Supplies at home were ruined by the hurricane.  Goods were only available by looting.

This crisis is also closing down stores.  We'll have to see what the result is, and what caused it, after the fact, when we can assess.

Now, do you see how silly you are to argue property rights when a life is really what is at issue?  What you are really saying is: But it's a black life, so that raises the relative value of the goods.  We can contemplate silly arguments about property, because black lives don't matter!

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun May 31, 2020 4:49 pm





They aren't robbing grocery stores for food...



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Post by Original Quill on Sun May 31, 2020 5:35 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:They aren't robbing grocery stores for food...

We'll know in the after-event studies. All I'm saying is we can't make premature judgments. These demonstrations do come on the heels of a pandemic shutdown, and that compounds the problem.

But your rush to judgment is telling. Your attitude is the same as Officer Derek Chauvin, whose judgment was that a black man must die beneath the heel of his jackboot. You are sealed into your opinion that blacks can do no good, nor have any good motives.

Maybe the former slaves of America feel the same about you...or your American counterpart. Maybe they feel that you are out to kill them at every opportunity. Hardly unreasonable, given the facts. Maybe this sealed-in clash within America can have no resolution absent a civil war.

It is in that spirit that I have proposed a peaceful dividing of America. Let the white-supremacists have that portion of the terrain where they predominate...the south. Let all citizens with opposing opinions come to our side, as well as southern blacks...give them sanction. And we create two different nations, with two different ideologies...an American Brexit, or Amexit.

Perhaps we should call the movement, Amexit!

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun May 31, 2020 5:43 pm




Waffle...


The cop is clearly a very dangerous individual who directly caused the death of the suspect in custody... and quite rightly is now facing prosecution for murder...


People robbing shops for TVs and iPhones is also criminal...


And they are just using this as an excuse...



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Post by Original Quill on Sun May 31, 2020 6:35 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The cop is clearly a very dangerous individual who directly caused the death of the suspect in custody... and quite rightly is now facing prosecution for murder...

And the others?  D'you think this is America's first rodeo?  This has been going on for 400-years, 260-years illegally.  Don't you think it's time to put it to rest?

I propose we have a reverse migration.  Racists and white-supremacists who have migrated to the north, must now go back to the south.  Blacks and right-minded citizens of the south, must migrate or return to the north.  Then, Virginia to west Texas, everything south of the Ohio River, we exile.  We cut them loose, and even sever all diplomatic ties.

It avoids a pending, inevitable civil war.  And, these days, that won't be pretty.  It's not for nothing that these southern, white-supremacists are showing up with automatic weapons.  They want civil war.  My plan is: make 'em an offer they can't refuse: you can have your place in the sun, where white crime and terrorism can proliferate...and over here it is off-limits!  It's a brokered, and peaceful solution.  They can have AR-15 practice on each other, just don't cross the border.

I think that such is an eminently reasonable solution.  It avoids civil war, and lets the death-wishers kill indiscriminately, keeping to themselves, as long as they clean up after themselves. It’s in keeping with states’ rights…only federalism is retracted.

It's either that, or they're gonna practice on you.  What do you think they are bringing their weapons for?  Anything like appeasement, is not available.  With Trump, it’s only getting worse.  It's only a matter of time before the public begins to realize: this will go on...and on...and on...and on...infinitely.


Last edited by Original Quill on Sun May 31, 2020 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun May 31, 2020 6:50 pm





Yet more hysterical knee jerk waffle...


I don't know why this cop acted as he did, and I don't know why the others seemed to think his behaviour was acceptable...


Apparently the bad cop knew the dead man from another place of work, so there could well be something that has happened previously to cause some bad blood between them... so it's a bit premature to jump to the conclusion that it was anything to do with racism...


Maybe the dead man had a history of extreme violence himself and a strong form of restraint was necessary, although in this case it does appear that the cop went well over the top...


But whatever it all might be... It is no excuse to rob shops for trainers, TVs and iPhones...



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Post by Original Quill on Sun May 31, 2020 7:01 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Yet more hysterical knee jerk waffle...

Hysterical? I thought it was quite calmly put. It is a solution that avoids hysterics, like civil war, armed terrorists, with their white supremacist agenda, and any armed response. It is a brokered solution, without conflict.

Listen, the other option is a civil war. People aren't going to put up with this. Governments aren't going to put up with this. Eventually, it's going to be armed conflict, with nuclear weapons a 50-50 proposition. So far from hysterical, I'm proposing a peaceful, brokered solution.

What you are proposing--by your blind ignorance--is the hysterical side.

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Original Quill on Sun May 31, 2020 7:07 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Maybe the dead man had a history of extreme violence himself and a strong form of restraint was necessary, although in this case it does appear that the cop went well over the top...

You are just making this up as you go along. Maybe the moon is made of green cheese? Maybe the earth is flat. Anything is possible.

On that premise, we should release all people in prisons, everywhere. Maybe they were wrongfully convicted?

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Syl on Sun May 31, 2020 8:07 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:


Waffle...


The cop is clearly a very dangerous individual who directly caused the death of the suspect in custody... and quite rightly is now facing prosecution for murder...


People robbing shops for TVs and iPhones is also criminal...


And they are just using this as an excuse...



In a nutshell Tommy. alien

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun May 31, 2020 8:33 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Maybe the dead man had a history of extreme violence himself and a strong form of restraint was necessary, although in this case it does appear that the cop went well over the top...

You are just making this up as you go along. Maybe the moon is made of green cheese? Maybe the earth is flat. Anything is possible.

On that premise, we should release all people in prisons, everywhere. Maybe they were wrongfully convicted?



Now you are being ridiculous...


And you try to lecture me about how you only deal in facts...


But with this you are eager to jump to conclusions without knowing any of the facts...



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Post by Original Quill on Sun May 31, 2020 9:15 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

You are just making this up as you go along.  Maybe the moon is made of green cheese?  Maybe the earth is flat.  Anything is possible.

On that premise, we should release all people in prisons, everywhere.  Maybe they were wrongfully convicted?

Now you are being ridiculous...

And you try to lecture me about how you only deal in facts...

But with this you are eager to jump to conclusions without knowing any of the facts...

Well, I was merely trying to mimic you...green cheese and flat earth, and all. Okay...so now you know what you sound like.

Do you want to come down to earth so we can talk reality.

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Guest on Sun May 31, 2020 9:29 pm

My daughter and I just watched a video on  Twitter where US stormtroopers ( cops or National guard) stormed down a residential road and fired rubber bullets into a guy watching from his front door.
The paramilitary and police are following orders and seem to be out of control. Or under the control of a beserk far right despot.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun May 31, 2020 9:44 pm



I'm already on earth quill... It is you who is up in the clouds with your fantasies...



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Post by Original Quill on Sun May 31, 2020 9:49 pm

There is no longer any normal. The Republicans are now talking about pussy grabbing, and killing 100,000 people, so far, committing malpractice in a pandemic. Conservatives are now champions of Russians, who were once so-called communists. Moscow Mitch doesn't want to impose sanctions on foreigners who want to interfere with our presidential appointment. Now it is de rigueur to block all appointments, indeed, all legislation, unless you own the executive office.

We have nine justices on the Supreme Court, 5 of them Republican. A new administration will have to pass legislation to increase the Court to 11 or 12 justices, just to prevent another 25-years of obstruction. We have armed militia stalking the streets, itching to kill black citizens. Likewise, cops.

My point is, there is no normal anymore. We have to drastically restructure the US--most likely, write a new constitution to correct all the rack and ruin of the last 4-years—and who knows what will come of it all.

Along with this restructure, why not cleanse out the infection before you try to sew up the incision? The two parts of the nation are no longer working synchronously. Go back to 1787, make ourselves the founders, and authorize ourselves to say—with our new found knowledge—this won’t work. We need an Amexit.

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Syl on Sun May 31, 2020 9:52 pm

I'm not sure whether the full video has been shown on the thread. It is indefensible.
It's watching  a man being murdered slowly for minutes, whilst bystanders repeatedly warn the cop he is killing the man....he ignored them all.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8368305/George-Floyd-cop-knelt-neck-worked-security-Minneapolis-club.html

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Post by Original Quill on Sun May 31, 2020 10:30 pm

Syl wrote:I'm not sure whether the full video has been shown on the thread. It is indefensible.
It's watching  a man being murdered slowly for minutes, whilst bystanders repeatedly warn the cop he is killing the man....he ignored them all.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8368305/George-Floyd-cop-knelt-neck-worked-security-Minneapolis-club.html

Thank you Syl. As you watch this video, question why they are not charging him with pre-meditated murder. For pre-meditated murder, you must frame an intent to kill.

As I understand it, the knee was on the victim's neck for 8-mins. and 46-seconds. After the first minute, ask out loud, has he had enough time to frame an intent(?), then after the next minute ask out loud, has he had enough time to frame an intent(?), then after the third minute ask out loud, has he had enough time to frame an intent(?), and after the fourth minute ask out loud, has he had enough time to frame an intent(?), and after the fifth minute ask out loud, has he had enough time to frame an intent(?), and after the sixth minute ask out loud, has he had enough time to frame an intent(?), and after the seventh minute ask out loud, has he had enough time to frame an intent(?), and after the eighth minute ask out loud, has he had enough time to frame an intent?

How much time does it take to frame an intent to murder, for a charge of 1st degree murder? Even the dumbest animal on earth knows what is going on.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun May 31, 2020 10:38 pm




I'm sure there is much more to this incident/case than is shown in the vid...



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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun May 31, 2020 11:00 pm




This link shows details of his previous convictions...


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8366533/George-Floyd-moved-Minneapolis-start-new-life-released-prison-Texas.html


But I'm sure he's a real lovely bloke really...



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Post by Maddog on Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:47 am

Syl wrote:I'm not sure whether the full video has been shown on the thread. It is indefensible.
It's watching  a man being murdered slowly for minutes, whilst bystanders repeatedly warn the cop he is killing the man....he ignored them all.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8368305/George-Floyd-cop-knelt-neck-worked-security-Minneapolis-club.html

Yeah. It's pretty horrific. I've seen equally bad, but probably not worse.

There's virtually no one over here that doesn't think that cop murdered that man. There is some debate about the other 3 that helped.

Burning down half the damn country should help. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:07 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

This link shows details of his previous convictions...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8366533/George-Floyd-moved-Minneapolis-start-new-life-released-prison-Texas.html

But I'm sure he's a real lovely bloke really...

So, you are saying he deserved to die?

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Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:28 am

Tommy Monk wrote:


This link shows details of his previous convictions...


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8366533/George-Floyd-moved-Minneapolis-start-new-life-released-prison-Texas.html


But I'm sure he's a real lovely bloke really...



Tommy thinks he deserved to die because of his past.
That's why he brought it up.
But it's ok, he was murdered by one of the racist  far right militia that Tommy so admired.
And as always, Tommy attempts to find blame with the victim

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Post by JulesV on Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:51 am

Tommy Monk wrote:


This link shows details of his previous convictions...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8366533/George-Floyd-moved-Minneapolis-start-new-life-released-prison-Texas.html


But I'm sure he's a real lovely bloke really...
Nowhere near as lovely as you, Tom. Mirror mirror on the wall, you are the loveliest of them all. Razz

Have the sense to know that this murder incident was far bigger than the man's history.  
If you're saying his death was no loss ...... well that could not be further from the point.
It's the optics that the international community was reacting to. Optics is everything.

The whole incident started off incredibly peacefully. He was arrested for a non violent offence and he was unarmed and obedient and already handcuffed long before the murder of him took place.

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Post by JulesV on Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:09 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

This link shows details of his previous convictions...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8366533/George-Floyd-moved-Minneapolis-start-new-life-released-prison-Texas.html

But I'm sure he's a real lovely bloke really...

So, you are saying he deserved to die?
Seems ten years had lapsed since the last time he was in trouble with the law and he had long since turned his life round.

The optics has gifted the 'revolutionists' with the most incredibly valuable iconic image they could have dreamt of. Paintings and sculptures will be made of it and installed in forecourts and foyers of museums.

The symbolism here is not just the optics of having someone deliberately cut off his oxygen, it's also the way all his   pleas to breathe fell on deaf ears, Quill.

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Post by JulesV on Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:27 pm

Brutus wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


This link shows details of his previous convictions...


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8366533/George-Floyd-moved-Minneapolis-start-new-life-released-prison-Texas.html


But I'm sure he's a real lovely bloke really...



Tommy thinks he deserved to die because of his past.
That's why he brought it up.
But it's ok, he was murdered by one of the racist  far right militia that Tommy so admired.
And as always, Tommy attempts to find blame with the victim

I'm mesmerised that an incident which started off so peacefully, escalated so sharply. How badly trained does a cop have to be to snatch chaos from the jaws of peace, like that.

Trump created and nurtured the climate where a cop can confidently conduct himself in this manner - and he'll be looking to see how the fallout from this disaster can help him win a second term.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:09 pm




Apparently he was spending counterfeit money and was high on drugs... Which is why he was arrested...


He was resisting arrest and fighting against being put in the car... One of the people in the vid was saying 'why don't you let him up and put him in the car?'... And cop replies that they had already spent ten minutes trying to get him in the car...


Then at the end of clip two ambulance bods appear and he is taken away on a stretcher... This ambulance must have been called long before its arrival...


There is no evidence of racist motive...



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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:57 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:There is no evidence of racist motive...

Chauvin has not been charged with being a racist. He is charged with murder.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:58 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:He was resisting arrest and fighting against being put in the car... One of the people in the vid was saying 'why don't you let him up and put him in the car?'... And cop replies that they had already spent ten minutes trying to get him in the car...

Bullshit.

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Post by Maddog on Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:02 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:


Apparently he was spending counterfeit money and was high on drugs... Which is why he was arrested...


He was resisting arrest and fighting against being put in the car... One of the people in the vid was saying 'why don't you let him up and put him in the car?'... And cop replies that they had already spent ten minutes trying to get him in the car...


Then at the end of clip two ambulance bods appear and he is taken away on a stretcher... This ambulance must have been called long before its arrival...


There is no evidence of racist motive...



The motive may not have been racial, but those four grown men should have just loaded him up and put him in the car. He was on the ground for almost 10 minutes. Should have been about 10 seconds.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:16 pm

Correct. The backseat of an American police car is like a cell--fully enclosed. Once in there, he is contained. He can kick and scream, but all he does is property damage...if that.

There were at least four police officers. There was no reason, except malice, to keep him outside the police car. That's why anyone can clearly see malice aforethought.

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Post by Maddog on Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:24 pm

While the chokehold has been banned in most of Minnesota, it was still allowed in Minneapolis.

Floyd’s death has refocused attention on “warrior-style” police training, which Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey banned last year, and which may help explain how yet another unarmed African-American suspect was killed after being detained.

Frey specifically mentioned the classes taught to police in Minnesota and the rest of the country by Dave Grossman, a retired lieutenant colonel with the U.S. Army’s 82nd Airborne. Grossman is the author of “On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society,” a book that promotes the training of a theory he calls “killology” that promotes the mindset needed to take human life.

A cornerstone of Grossman’s “killology” training is the frame of mind required to do the job.

“Are you emotionally, spiritually, psychologically prepared to snuff out a human life in defense of innocent lives?” Grossman asked officers who attended one of his classes in Ohio. “If you can’t make that decision, you need to find another job.”

https://news.yahoo.com/george-floyd-death-in-custody-puts-spotlight-on-warrior-training-for-police-195640810.html?ncid=facebook_yahoonewsf_akfmevaatca

We can scream about race all we want. Until this is undone and untaught, not much will change.





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Post by JulesV on Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:28 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:There is no evidence of racist motive...

Chauvin has not been charged with being a racist. He is charged with murder.
Exactly.
The central issue here is murder.
The criminal charges against the cop make no reference to racism.
If racism allegations were included, the cop's defence lawyers would get clever and sly - and deflect the entire focus to all about racism - and then 'prove' there was no racist intent. And then the whole premise of the case would collapse.

From the social and political aspect - yes there are racial overtones, inevitably.
But from the legal aspect, let's just focus on the murder alone ……... without the distraction of racism, which clever defence lawyers would take advantage of.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:32 pm

Maddog wrote:While the chokehold has been banned in most of Minnesota, it was still allowed in Minneapolis.

It wasn't a choke hold.  It was a knee blocking the airway, causing asphyxiation.  Several training officers, sought by ABC and NBC over the past week, have distinguished this from a choke hold, saying that nowhere do they teach a knee to the neck.

It was a Chauvin-hold, if anything.

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Post by Maddog on Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:35 pm

Tony Timpa wailed and pleaded for help more than 30 times as Dallas police officers pinned his shoulders, knees and neck to the ground.

“You’re gonna kill me! You’re gonna kill me! You’re gonna kill me!”

After Timpa fell unconscious, the officers who had him in handcuffs assumed he was asleep and didn’t confirm that he was breathing or feel for a pulse.

As precious minutes passed, the officers laughed and joked about waking Timpa up for school and making him waffles for breakfast.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/you-re-gonna-kill-me-dallas-police-body-cam-footage-reveals-the-final-minutes-of-tony-timpa-s-life/

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Post by JulesV on Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:37 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:


Apparently he was spending counterfeit money and was high on drugs... Which is why he was arrested...


He was resisting arrest and fighting against being put in the car... One of the people in the vid was saying 'why don't you let him up and put him in the car?'... And cop replies that they had already spent ten minutes trying to get him in the car...

Then at the end of clip two ambulance bods appear and he is taken away on a stretcher... This ambulance must have been called long before its arrival...

There is no evidence of racist motive...
Is that a medical diagnosis? Are shopkeepers medically qualified? What 'high on drugs' behaviour did he exhibit, exactly?
You do realise that most of the current Tory cabinet including the prime minister and his deputy have been sky high on drugs in the past (by their own admission !) Their status protected them from any criminal repercussions.

So let's not get too sniffy and pretend drugs are only a problem among the hoi polloi.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:43 pm

JulesV wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Chauvin has not been charged with being a racist.  He is charged with murder.
Exactly.
The central issue here is murder.
The criminal charges against the cop make no reference to racism.
If racism allegations were included, the cop's defence lawyers would get clever and sly - and deflect the entire focus to all about racism - and then 'prove' there was no racist intent. And then the whole premise of the case would collapse.

From the social and political aspect - yes there are racial overtones, inevitably.
But from the legal aspect, let's just focus on the murder alone ……... without the distraction of racism, which clever defence lawyers would take advantage of.

Well put. In fact, at the state level most laws treat "hate crime"--which is what racism is--as an enhancement in sentencing.

The Feds have 42 USC 1981, et seq., as amended, being a post-civil war law, but it is hard to prove because it requires a showing of intent, and it is weak in it's penalties.

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Post by JulesV on Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:46 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:While the chokehold has been banned in most of Minnesota, it was still allowed in Minneapolis.

It wasn't a choke hold.  It was a knee blocking the airway, causing asphyxiation.  Several training officers, sought by ABC and NBC over the past week, have distinguished this from a choke hold, saying that nowhere do they teach a knee to the neck.
It was a Chauvin-hold, if anything.

3 men knelt side by side on top of him.  
Chauvin blocking the windpipe and the blood vessels supplying the brain.
The two other stooges were squashing his thorax and all his internal abdominal organs.
All 3 used their entire body weight together - on one man.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:56 pm

JulesV wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Apparently he was spending counterfeit money and was high on drugs... Which is why he was arrested...

He was resisting arrest and fighting against being put in the car... One of the people in the vid was saying 'why don't you let him up and put him in the car?'... And cop replies that they had already spent ten minutes trying to get him in the car...

Then at the end of clip two ambulance bods appear and he is taken away on a stretcher... This ambulance must have been called long before its arrival...

There is no evidence of racist motive...
Is that a medical diagnosis? Are shopkeepers  medically qualified? What 'high on drugs' behaviour did he exhibit, exactly?
You do realise that most of the current Tory cabinet including the prime minister and his deputy have been sky high on drugs in the past (by their own admission !) Their status protected them from any criminal repercussions.

So let's not get too sniffy and pretend drugs are only a problem among the hoi polloi.

Further on the subjective evidence brought by Tommy: note that it is a police officer whose voice is uttering those subjective statements. The police are not exactly a disinterested party in this matter.

In addition to NewsFix, tommy is over on RW sites hearing biased arguments, and bringing them back over here. To a RW'er, the police are authorities, not merely a participant in adversarial proceedings. RW'ers assume cops can do no wrong.

As one can see by the very existence of this case, cops are not unbiased.

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Post by JulesV on Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:05 pm

Someone redded this post I made.  >

I'm mesmerised that an incident which started off so peacefully, escalated so sharply. How badly trained does a cop have to be to snatch chaos from the jaws of peace, like that.
Trump created and nurtured the climate where a cop can confidently conduct himself in this manner - and he'll be looking to see how the fallout from this disaster can help him win a second term.

Now I don't mind the red, but I'd rather they told me what part they disagreed with.
Is Trump's name so sacred that he should never be criticised?
Or did the person disagree with me saying the arrest was peaceful INITIALLY, and GF was obedient. I was correct! It was only later on that things escalated! > >
https://nypost.com/2020/05/27/video-does-not-appear-to-show-george-floyd-resisting-arrest/?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_5253996


So whoever secretly gave that red, please be a brave soldier next time and say why you disagree instead. Smile  
I won't bite.  I have never redded anyone, I always prefer to say WHY I disagree with a post, or I just shrug & ignore it.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:17 pm

Probably tommy...his post is next.

Used to be phil (Thorin) who was the red marauder.  But he is gone.

Anyway, not to worry.  Most people do not use a red because it is meaningless--it does not detract from the rep score (upper-left).  It used to reduce the score, but management did away with that because they want all campers to be happy campers.

I'm glad they did, as sometimes the most intelligent posts get the most reds.  I mean, if one is really good, s/he gets a lot of hate mail...or, in this case, reds.  Sometimes it can be a compliment: as in, your point is so good I can't respond, so I'll just give you a red. Lol.

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