'I support Ukip,'(and the SNP) says Moors murderer Ian Brady

First topic message reminder :

'I support Ukip,' says Moors murderer Ian Brady as he brands Cameron a 'public school millionaire' and Miliband a 'refugee, privileged German Jew' in bizarre letters

Moors murderer Ian Brady has revealed he is a Ukip supporter and thinks David Dimbleby is an 'establishment dumpling'.

The 77-year-old wrote the letters from his bed at Ashworth psychiatric hospital in Merseyside.

Brady was jailed for life in 1966 after torturing and killing five children with his then-girlfriend Myra Hindley.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3055928/Moors-murderer-Ian-Brady-reveals-Ukip-supporter-brands-David-Dimbleby-establishment-dumpling-series-ranting-letters-Ashworth-hospital.html

Oh dear.

Nemesis wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It wasn't most anyway, it was 49% - the other 51% either didn't want to pay more tax or didn't give a stuff.

Those who are opposed to immigration might be concerned about other British people being deprived of housing or jobs, so they're not necessarily being selfish.

So it was a majority.

PMSL

Deprived of Jobs?


So you want to have discrimination to only British people getting jobs then?


So you back the same in any country and thus deny any Brits from migrating then to get jobs.


You see your argument is one way and selfish.

This is the problem with people today, they think being born to a land with imaginary boundaries gives them the right to deny many people wanting to come and live and work here as law abiding citizens.


That is what you call abusrd

49% isn't a majority, it's less than half.

If you're claiming that people care about the NHS for unselfish reasons, I can claim that people care about immigration for unselfish reasons too. Really Didge, you seem to have no common sense at all sometimes.

It stands to reason that if there is a finite number of jobs going, the more people who apply, the less chance an individual person has of getting one of those jobs.

I have no problem with any country giving priority to its own citizens when it comes to handing out jobs. See, that's unselfish, isn't it? I would give up the chance of a job in Spain so that a Spanish person could have it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nemesis wrote:



So it was a majority.

PMSL

Deprived of Jobs?


So you want to have discrimination to only British people getting jobs then?


So you back the same in any country and thus deny any Brits from migrating then to get jobs.


You see your argument is one way and selfish.

This is the problem with people today, they think being born to a land with imaginary boundaries gives them the right to deny many people wanting to come and live and work here as law abiding citizens.


That is what you call abusrd

49% isn't a majority, it's less than half.

If you're claiming that people care about the NHS for unselfish reasons, I can claim that people care about immigration for unselfish reasons too. Really Didge, you seem to have no common sense at all sometimes.

It stands to reason that if there is a finite number of jobs going, the more people who apply, the less chance an individual person has of getting one of those jobs.

I have no problem with any country giving priority to its own citizens when it comes to handing out jobs. See, that's unselfish, isn't it? I would give up the chance of a job in Spain so that a Spanish person could have it.

49% is a majority to the no's 


DOH


I proved your claims on the NHS were unfounded and I proved your claims on immigration were one sided and thus selfish.


Its down to employers who they employ and again those jobs are and rightly open to anyone as they are to Brits around the world.
That is called equality, something you seemed to fail to comprehend lol

So you not only want people to be selfish  in lands with an imaginary boundaries, but also other lands with imaginary boundaries

Nemesis wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

49% isn't a majority, it's less than half.

If you're claiming that people care about the NHS for unselfish reasons, I can claim that people care about immigration for unselfish reasons too. Really Didge, you seem to have no common sense at all sometimes.

It stands to reason that if there is a finite number of jobs going, the more people who apply, the less chance an individual person has of getting one of those jobs.

I have no problem with any country giving priority to its own citizens when it comes to handing out jobs. See, that's unselfish, isn't it? I would give up the chance of a job in Spain so that a Spanish person could have it.

49% is a majority to the no's 


DOH


I proved your claims on the NHS were unfounded and I proved your claims on immigration were one sided and thus selfish.


Its down to employers who they employ and again those jobs are and rightly open to anyone as they are to Brits around the world.
That is called equality, something you seemed to fail to comprehend lol

So you not only want people to be selfish  in lands with an imaginary boundaries, but also other lands with imaginary boundaries

You've proved nothing, except that you can't see anyone else's point of view but your own - that's pretty selfish.

My views on immigration are not selfish. In fact, I haven't even given my views, other than to say that I have no problem with countries giving their own citizens priority when it comes to jobs. That's not selfish, it's sensible.

So nothing to counter my points.


Views on immigration are selfish full stop, because as seen they deny equality. They place a view based on birth right, an elitist view point, based around again being born onto a land with imaginary boundaries to deny others the benefits of a nation, none of which you would have yourself, without the innovative advancement of a few individuals, none of which you created yourself.

Nemesis wrote:So nothing to counter my points.


Views on immigration are selfish full stop, because as seen they deny equality. They place a view based on birth right, an elitist view point, based around again being born onto a land with imaginary boundaries to deny others the benefits of a nation, none of which you would have yourself, without the innovative advancement of a few individuals, none of which you created yourself.

Nonsense. It's just common sense that if there are a certain number of jobs going, it's best to give priority to citizens, otherwise you end up with loads of citizens on benefits instead.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nemesis wrote:So nothing to counter my points.


Views on immigration are selfish full stop, because as seen they deny equality. They place a view based on birth right, an elitist view point, based around again being born onto a land with imaginary boundaries to deny others the benefits of a nation, none of which you would have yourself, without the innovative advancement of a few individuals, none of which you created yourself.

Nonsense. It's just common sense that if there are a certain number of jobs going, it's best to give priority to citizens, otherwise you end up with loads of citizens on benefits instead.

Best?

Why, because you say so?
That is not a reason, that is proposing discrimination, not equality.
Again your only reason is being born to a land, that is elitism.
Again you did nothing, but benefit from a system that was created collectively and through the blood and sweat from hundreds of millions of people not even living in this country which contributed to its wealth.
Did you know it was because of wealth plundered from the India that helped kick start the Industrial revolution to the collective wealth of a quarter of the known world subjugated by the British which was a major factor in the economic wealth it has today, all of which you benefit from? Even more so the millions that signed up to serve and defend this nation and you bemoan people coming to work and live here?
Seriously, it might bode you well to learn how and where you benefited from such a system that you live comfortably off today.

Nemesis wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nonsense. It's just common sense that if there are a certain number of jobs going, it's best to give priority to citizens, otherwise you end up with loads of citizens on benefits instead.

Best?

Why, because you say so?
That is not a reason, that is proposing discrimination, not equality.
Again your only reason is being born to a land, that is elitism.
Again you did nothing, but benefit from a system that was created collectively and through the blood and sweat from hundreds of millions of people not even living in this country which contributed to its wealth.
Did you know it was because of wealth plundered from the India that helped kick start the Industrial revolution to the collective wealth of a quarter of the known world subjugated by the British which was a major factor in the economic wealth it has today, all of which you benefit from. Even more so the millions that signed up to serve and defend this nation and you bemoan people coming to work here?
Seriously, it might bode you well to learn how and where you benefited from such a system that you live comfortably off today.

So what is the point of having loads of British people on benefits?

How do you know I live comfortably? Do stop talking bollox and living in the past.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nemesis wrote:


Best?

Why, because you say so?
That is not a reason, that is proposing discrimination, not equality.
Again your only reason is being born to a land, that is elitism.
Again you did nothing, but benefit from a system that was created collectively and through the blood and sweat from hundreds of millions of people not even living in this country which contributed to its wealth.
Did you know it was because of wealth plundered from the India that helped kick start the Industrial revolution to the collective wealth of a quarter of the known world subjugated by the British which was a major factor in the economic wealth it has today, all of which you benefit from. Even more so the millions that signed up to serve and defend this nation and you bemoan people coming to work here?
Seriously, it might bode you well to learn how and where you benefited from such a system that you live comfortably off today.

So what is the point of having loads of British people on benefits?

How do you know I live comfortably? Do stop talking bollox and living in the past.

You live far more comfortably than hundreds of millions of people in many countries abroad, let alone the advantaged start in life you had over them. So compared to many others you do.

Your argument just got ripped apart and you know it and easily proven to be selfish.

Unless you can counter my points, which I know you cannot, stop wasting my time.

Thanks

Nemesis wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

So what is the point of having loads of British people on benefits?

How do you know I live comfortably? Do stop talking bollox and living in the past.

You live far more comfortably than hundreds of millions of people in many countries abroad, let alone the advantaged start in life you had over them. So compared to many others you do.

Your argument just got ripped apart and you know it and easily proven to be selfish.

Unless you can counter my points, which I know you cannot, stop wasting my time.

Thanks

Your argument was bollox you mean, and now you're bleating on about India to hide your embarrassment.

The definition of irony.

A Christian arguing against sharing a land and its benefits with other people, none of which she created and was only lucky to be born into. Who fails to understand the history of how the system she is advantaged living in was formed or created.


Maybe you can point out where Jesus said not to share lol


Night

Same old tired arguments dodge... it was successful trade development and The sharing of knowledge and industrial practices... not plunder...

LOLZ

tell that to the people you raped an pillaged

YES it was all plunder dumb fuck
Trade is not telling people you are taking their stuff and giving them nothing in return WHICH is what the British did!!!!

I presume that Didge and Veya have given away all their worldly goods on the grounds that they only have them as a result of plundering other countries.

Not sure about them, but I certainly give plenty to worthy charities and I am not religious as well. Thus not doing so out of an irrational fear that I might go to some make believe hell if I do not not help others.

Nemesis wrote:Not sure about them, but I certainly give plenty to worthy charities and I am not religious as well. Thus not doing so out of an irrational fear that I might go to some make believe hell if I do not not help others.

Why are you talking about religion? Are you an anti-religion bigot?

Giving to charity isn't the same things as giving away all your ill-gotten gains - you know, the stuff you got because you plundered other countries and took advantage of your privileged lifestyle.

darknessss wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Not liking gay people doesn't necessarily make someone "right wing".

true. but it IS an inherent characteristic of the right......

besides which, whethere it does or does not

ANYONE who "dislikes" someone simply becasue they are gay is evidentially simple minded and should have the vote removed from them immediately (personally i reckon termination should be applied ...but hey ho )
it simply is NONE of your business....

the left are not much better in many aspects though....
they are taught to "dislike" someone for being well off and for working hard and succeeding

they would take it all off them and "distribute" it to the supposedly "deserving" poor

so again..........

So you're saying that anyone who is "right wing" dislikes gay people? Does that include all the Tory votes in the UK?

I agree about lefties though.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nemesis wrote:Not sure about them, but I certainly give plenty to worthy charities and I am not religious as well. Thus not doing so out of an irrational fear that I might go to some make believe hell if I do not not help others.

Why are you talking about religion? Are you an anti-religion bigot?

Giving to charity isn't the same things as giving away all your ill-gotten gains - you know, the stuff you got because you plundered other countries and took advantage of your privileged lifestyle.

Religion is a form of control, if you do not fear after death, you have no reason to believe in the either Islam or Christianity. That is not being a bigot but being rightly critical of religious belief because it denies people the freedom to act by themselves. A fear of an eternity in hell is what makes believers follow commands and beliefs surrounding that religion.

Again it seems I need to provide you with some more education. I benefit from this system just as you do and am grateful of that system that has advanatged me. I do however recognise that aspects of what the British Empire did factor into how it became a wealthy nation. You seem to be a very immature indvidual that does not understand how lucky and advanatged you are over others, again over nothing you did other than to be lucky enough to be born onto this land. If you believe this gives you a right to deny others, then you take a selfish view and stance based around elitism. It is as simple as that and judging by the fact your answers get more and more bitter and antsy, shows what an ungrateful indvidual you are. I have workled hard for my family and the reality is my family will come naturally first, but I still with what I can spare any help to others. You seem to take some Christian view to give up everything, which you clearly do not do so yourself and yet think I should which is utterly hypocritical when I never claimed you should.

Again it is recognising the wrongs done in the past which you are lucky to benefit from. You seem to think that no nobody should also benefit from this based again off a selfish belief you have even though you are a Christian which is the worst hypocrisy going to deny others who wish to be a part of this society.

You clearly have much to learn and am very happy to help in your education in regards to helping you get past your negative and selfish beliefs.

Raggamuffin wrote:

darknessss wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Not liking gay people doesn't necessarily make someone "right wing".

true. but it IS an inherent characteristic of the right......

besides which, whethere it does or does not

ANYONE who "dislikes" someone simply becasue they are gay is evidentially simple minded and should have the vote removed from them immediately (personally i reckon termination should be applied ...but hey ho )
it simply is NONE of your business....

the left are not much better in many aspects though....
they are taught to "dislike" someone for being well off and for working hard and succeeding

they would take it all off them and "distribute" it to the supposedly "deserving" poor

so again..........

So you're saying that anyone who is "right wing" dislikes gay people? Does that include all the Tory votes in the UK?

I agree about lefties though.

The people on the right who don't dislike (and oppress, and discriminate against) gay people are just those on the right who have finally, at long last, come around to the left's better way of thinking about humanity. The left was pushing for gay rights back when the right was still wondering whether women should get to vote.

I get pretty sick of those on the right acting like they invented or had any part in any of this. You're following our lead, and the fact that you do shows we're winning (as we always do in the end), we're leading societal change and you're the anchor that's keeping us from moving even farther forward. I'm tired of thanking the right wing for finally waking up on such things. Take your heads out from under your pillows and at least try to live in this world instead of the fantasy past you invent for yourselves and dream about.

And, it's not bigoted to see that religiosity is a primitive way of thinking about existence. It came about as an explanation for reality, but thankfully we've moved past blind belief and into the humility of the student who is just at the beginning of real understanding and knowledge.

Nemesis wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Why are you talking about religion? Are you an anti-religion bigot?

Giving to charity isn't the same things as giving away all your ill-gotten gains - you know, the stuff you got because you plundered other countries and took advantage of your privileged lifestyle.

Religion is a form of control, if you do not fear after death, you have no reason to believe in the either Islam or Christianity. That is not being a bigot but being rightly critical of religious belief because it denies people the freedom to act by themselves.
A fear of an eternity in hell is what makes believers follow commands and beliefs surrounding that religion.
Again it seems I need to provide you with some more education.
I benefit from this system just as you do and am grateful of that system that has advanatged me. I do however recognise that aspects of what the British Empire did factor into how it became a wealthy nation. You seem to be a very immature indvidual that does not understand how lucky and advanatged you are over others, again over nothing you did other than to be lucky enough to be born onto this land. If you believe this gives you a right to deny others, then you take a selfish view and stance based around elitism. It is as simple as that and judging by the fact your answers get more and more bitter and antsy, shows what an ungrateful indvidual you are. I have workled hard for my family and the reality is my family will come naturally first, but I still with what I can spare help others. You seem to take some Christian view to give up everything, which you clearly do not do so yourself and yet think I should which is utterly hypocritical when I never claimed you should.
Again it is recognising the wrongs done in the past which you are lucky to benefit from. You seemt to think that no nody should also benefit from this based again off a selfish belief you have even though you are a Christian which is the worst hypocrisy going to deny others who wish to be a part of this society.

You clearly have much to learn and am very happy to help in your education in regards to helping you get by your negative and selfish beliefs

Why are you bringing religion into it the first place? It's not your business what people believe or have faith in. People with religious faith aren't being denied anything - they like having faith. You cannot educate me about faith because you have none and you know nothing about it.

I've also said that other countries should be able to give priority to their own citizens. If I had said that only British people should have that right, you might have a point, but I did not. It's nothing to do with elitism, and you have not explained why it makes sense to have British people on benefits rather than doing the jobs that are available.

I do hope you're going to criticise the Australians, New Zealanders, and Americans for not letting just any old person go and work in their countries.

You don't seem to understand sarcasm either. You're the one bleating on about how I am at an advantage because of the people in other countries, but now you say that you "worked hard", so I presume you are not including yourself when you bang on about the "wrongs" that someone else did.

You're so full of yourself - burbling on about how you give to charity and making sure everyone knows that you do. Does it make you feel virtuous to boast about it?

Have you donated to the earthquake fund yet?

Nemesis wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nemesis wrote:Not sure about them, but I certainly give plenty to worthy charities and I am not religious as well. Thus not doing so out of an irrational fear that I might go to some make believe hell if I do not not help others.

Why are you talking about religion? Are you an anti-religion bigot?

Giving to charity isn't the same things as giving away all your ill-gotten gains - you know, the stuff you got because you plundered other countries and took advantage of your privileged lifestyle.

Religion is a form of control, if you do not fear after death, you have no reason to believe in the either Islam or Christianity. That is not being a bigot but being rightly critical of religious belief because it denies people the freedom to act by themselves. A fear of an eternity in hell is what makes believers follow commands and beliefs surrounding that religion.

Again it seems I need to provide you with some more education. I benefit from this system just as you do and am grateful of that system that has advanatged me. I do however recognise that aspects of what the British Empire did factor into how it became a wealthy nation. You seem to be a very immature indvidual that does not understand how lucky and advanatged you are over others, again over nothing you did other than to be lucky enough to be born onto this land. If you believe this gives you a right to deny others, then you take a selfish view and stance based around elitism. It is as simple as that and judging by the fact your answers get more and more bitter and antsy, shows what an ungrateful indvidual you are. I have workled hard for my family and the reality is my family will come naturally first, but I still with what I can spare any help to others. You seem to take some Christian view to give up everything, which you clearly do not do so yourself and yet think I should which is utterly hypocritical when I never claimed you should.

Again it is recognising the wrongs done in the past which you are lucky to benefit from. You seem to think that no nobody should also benefit from this based again off a selfish belief you have even though you are a Christian which is the worst hypocrisy going to deny others who wish to be a part of this society.

You clearly have much to learn and am very happy to help in your education in regards to helping you get past your negative and selfish beliefs.

You hit on the insidiousness of religion in that it makes people fear what will happen to themselves if they don't believe. Religion has had a long time to perfect this form of mind control. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a sick thing to do to another person.

Ben_Reilly wrote:And, it's not bigoted to see that religiosity is a primitive way of thinking about existence. It came about as an explanation for reality, but thankfully we've moved past blind belief and into the humility of the student who is just at the beginning of real understanding and knowledge.

The point is that this discussion was nothing to do with religion - Didge just used religion as a stick to beat me with because he thinks it's clever to do so. I do hope you're not going to do the same. Your anti-religion views are already well-documented.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Nemesis wrote:



Religion is a form of control, if you do not fear after death, you have no reason to believe in the either Islam or Christianity. That is not being a bigot but being rightly critical of religious belief because it denies people the freedom to act by themselves. A fear of an eternity in hell is what makes believers follow commands and beliefs surrounding that religion.

Again it seems I need to provide you with some more education. I benefit from this system just as you do and am grateful of that system that has advanatged me. I do however recognise that aspects of what the British Empire did factor into how it became a wealthy nation. You seem to be a very immature indvidual that does not understand how lucky and advanatged you are over others, again over nothing you did other than to be lucky enough to be born onto this land. If you believe this gives you a right to deny others, then you take a selfish view and stance based around elitism. It is as simple as that and judging by the fact your answers get more and more bitter and antsy, shows what an ungrateful indvidual you are. I have workled hard for my family and the reality is my family will come naturally first, but I still with what I can spare any help to others. You seem to take some Christian view to give up everything, which you clearly do not do so yourself and yet think I should which is utterly hypocritical when I never claimed you should.

Again it is recognising the wrongs done in the past which you are lucky to benefit from. You seem to think that no nobody should also benefit from this based again off a selfish belief you have even though you are a Christian which is the worst hypocrisy going to deny others who wish to be a part of this society.

You clearly have much to learn and am very happy to help in your education in regards to helping you get past your negative and selfish beliefs.

You hit on the insidiousness of religion in that it makes people fear what will happen to themselves if they don't believe. Religion has had a long time to perfect this form of mind control. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a sick thing to do to another person.

Here we go - the anti-religion brigade are taking over this thread.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:And, it's not bigoted to see that religiosity is a primitive way of thinking about existence. It came about as an explanation for reality, but thankfully we've moved past blind belief and into the humility of the student who is just at the beginning of real understanding and knowledge.

The point is that this discussion was nothing to do with religion - Didge just used religion as a stick to beat me with because he thinks it's clever to do so. I do hope you're not going to do the same. Your anti-religion views are already well-documented.

If you take comfort in religious beliefs, that is your right. But I'm tired of religious people acting as though their beliefs aren't subject to the same critical thinking that all other beliefs (including the religious beliefs Christians think are weird) are subject to.

If you're going to espouse something, why shouldn't you be expected to defend it? That is the case for pretty much everybody who espouses any point of view -- except the religious, because you guys have done your best to train the rest of us that your beliefs are beyond reproach or question.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nemesis wrote:



Religion is a form of control, if you do not fear after death, you have no reason to believe in the either Islam or Christianity. That is not being a bigot but being rightly critical of religious belief because it denies people the freedom to act by themselves.
A fear of an eternity in hell is what makes believers follow commands and beliefs surrounding that religion.
Again it seems I need to provide you with some more education.
I benefit from this system just as you do and am grateful of that system that has advanatged me. I do however recognise that aspects of what the British Empire did factor into how it became a wealthy nation. You seem to be a very immature indvidual that does not understand how lucky and advanatged you are over others, again over nothing you did other than to be lucky enough to be born onto this land. If you believe this gives you a right to deny others, then you take a selfish view and stance based around elitism. It is as simple as that and judging by the fact your answers get more and more bitter and antsy, shows what an ungrateful indvidual you are. I have workled hard for my family and the reality is my family will come naturally first, but I still with what I can spare help others. You seem to take some Christian view to give up everything, which you clearly do not do so yourself and yet think I should which is utterly hypocritical when I never claimed you should.
Again it is recognising the wrongs done in the past which you are lucky to benefit from. You seemt to think that no nody should also benefit from this based again off a selfish belief you have even though you are a Christian which is the worst hypocrisy going to deny others who wish to be a part of this society.

You clearly have much to learn and am very happy to help in your education in regards to helping you get by your negative and selfish beliefs

Why are you bringing religion into it the first place? It's not your business what people believe or have faith in. People with religious faith aren't being denied anything - they like having faith. You cannot educate me about faith because you have none and you know nothing about it.

I've also said that other countries should be able to give priority to their own citizens. If I had said that only British people should have that right, you might have a point, but I did not. It's nothing to do with elitism, and you have not explained why it makes sense to have British people on benefits rather than doing the jobs that are available.

I do hope you're going to criticise the Australians, New Zealanders, and Americans for not letting just any old person go and work in their countries.

You don't seem to understand sarcasm either. You're the one bleating on about how I am at an advantage because of the people in other countries, but now you say that you "worked hard", so I presume you are not including yourself when you bang on about the "wrongs" that someone else did.

You're so full of yourself - burbling on about how you give to charity and making sure everyone knows that you do. Does it make you feel virtuous to boast about it?

Have you donated to the earthquake fund yet?

You are a Christian and thus religious and the tennants of Jesus teaching is in regards to sharing is it not. Yet you seem to be at odds with this basic view that he had. So it is very important to understand why you seem to be at odds with your own faith. The fact is people believe based off a fear of a hell, as again if you do not fear going to hell you again have no reason to belief. So ask yourself do you not fear going to hell? If you do not then you have no reason to belief, because the fundemental view taught is to fear the deity in both Christianty and islam. So much so that there is a hell, for thos who are seen to do wrong.

Some people simply cannot work because they have disabilities or for example they cannot afford to work as they are the only one to look after the children and not all are educated to a standard which will enable them empployment that pays well enough. So some people can work and yes some are lazy also, but the fact is anyone is entittled top come here and work. You have no right to deny them this, your only argument would be that you are born to the land which is elitism. It is as simple as that.

I am very critical of the systems of other nations, that though is just a very woeful deflkection on your part as it is not the topic of debate here. If it was, i would say the very same and in fact be even more critical of any such defense offered by someone from the US or Australia based on fact they still deny self determination to the indegeneous of those country.

Yes I have donaated to the Nepal, being as I have been their twice, it was really sad to see this happen. I am not concerned as to what you think with me just stating I like to give. If you take that another way it just further proves my point in regards to your negative emotions you lead by where again you are very bitter and antsy.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

The point is that this discussion was nothing to do with religion - Didge just used religion as a stick to beat me with because he thinks it's clever to do so. I do hope you're not going to do the same. Your anti-religion views are already well-documented.

If you take comfort in religious beliefs, that is your right. But I'm tired of religious people acting as though their beliefs aren't subject to the same critical thinking that all other beliefs (including the religious beliefs Christians think are weird) are subject to.

If you're going to espouse something, why shouldn't you be expected to defend it? That is the case for pretty much everybody who espouses any point of view -- except the religious, because you guys have done your best to train the rest of us that your beliefs are beyond reproach or question.

I haven't based anything I've said in this thread on my religious beliefs, so stop pretending that I have. I realise that you can't stand anyone believing in something you don't believe in, but it's not your business, and it might be best if you stuck to the real issues in this thread rather than getting on your soap box yet again.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

If you take comfort in religious beliefs, that is your right. But I'm tired of religious people acting as though their beliefs aren't subject to the same critical thinking that all other beliefs (including the religious beliefs Christians think are weird) are subject to.

If you're going to espouse something, why shouldn't you be expected to defend it? That is the case for pretty much everybody who espouses any point of view -- except the religious, because you guys have done your best to train the rest of us that your beliefs are beyond reproach or question.

I haven't based anything I've said in this thread on my religious beliefs, so stop pretending that I have. I realise that you can't stand anyone believing in something you don't believe in, but it's not your business, and it might be best if you stuck to the real issues in this thread rather than getting on your soap box yet again.

It is a very valid point to ask a Christian in regards to sharing.
Where you clearly are at odds with sharing this land.
So how is that not relevant?
Its like UKIP, they claim to stand for Christian values.
So I ask you, what Christian value do you kinow that states to not share?

Nemesis wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Why are you bringing religion into it the first place? It's not your business what people believe or have faith in. People with religious faith aren't being denied anything - they like having faith. You cannot educate me about faith because you have none and you know nothing about it.

I've also said that other countries should be able to give priority to their own citizens. If I had said that only British people should have that right, you might have a point, but I did not. It's nothing to do with elitism, and you have not explained why it makes sense to have British people on benefits rather than doing the jobs that are available.

I do hope you're going to criticise the Australians, New Zealanders, and Americans for not letting just any old person go and work in their countries.

You don't seem to understand sarcasm either. You're the one bleating on about how I am at an advantage because of the people in other countries, but now you say that you "worked hard", so I presume you are not including yourself when you bang on about the "wrongs" that someone else did.

You're so full of yourself - burbling on about how you give to charity and making sure everyone knows that you do. Does it make you feel virtuous to boast about it?

Have you donated to the earthquake fund yet?

1) You are a Christian and thus religious and the tennants of Jesus teaching is in regards to sharing is it not. Yet you seem to be at odds with this basic view that he had. So it is veyr important to understand why you seem to be at odds with your own faith. The fact is people believe based off a fear of a hell, as again if you do not fear going to hell you again have no reason to belief. So ask yourself do you not fear going to hell? If you do not then you have no reason to belief, because the fundemental view taught is to fear the deity in both Christianty and islam. So much so that there is a hell, for thos who are seen to do wrong.

Some people simply cannot work because they have disabilities or for example they cannot afford to work as they are the only one to look after the children and not all are educated to a standard which will enable them empployment that pays well enough. So some people can work and yes some are lazy also, but the fact is anyone is entittled top come here and work. You have no right to deny them this, your only argument would be that you are born to the land which is elitism. It is as simple as that.

I am very critical of the systems of other nations, that though is just a very woeful deflkection on your part as it is not the topic of debate here. If it was, i would say the very same and in fact be even more critical of any such defense offered by someone from the US or Australia based on fact they still deny self determination to the indegeneous of those country.

Yes I have donaated to the Nepal, being as I have been their twice, it was really sad to see this happen. I am not concerned as to what you think with me just stating I like to give. If you take that another way it just further proves my point in regards to your negative emotions you lead by where again you are very bitter and antsy.

The stuff about my faith is clearly an attempt to derail the thread, so it will be ignored.

Let's hear your specific views about the US then - have a go at Ben for a change.

Both of my jobs were acquired by my own efforts, and are nothing to do with Indians or anyone else. If you want to think that what you do is a result of what someone else did years ago in another country, that's up to you, but don't bother to lecture me.

Nemesis wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I haven't based anything I've said in this thread on my religious beliefs, so stop pretending that I have. I realise that you can't stand anyone believing in something you don't believe in, but it's not your business, and it might be best if you stuck to the real issues in this thread rather than getting on your soap box yet again.

It is a very valid point to ask a Christian in regards to sharing.
Where you clearly are at odds with sharing this land.
So how is that not relevant?
Its like UKIP, they claim to stand for Christian values.
So I ask you, what Christian value do you kinow that states to not share?

I'm not going to pander to your bigotry and intolerance about religion. If you want to discuss religion, start another thread - it will go well with all the other anti-religion threads on here.

So then, do lefties vote for parties which don't actually benefit them?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nemesis wrote:

1) You are a Christian and thus religious and the tennants of Jesus teaching is in regards to sharing is it not. Yet you seem to be at odds with this basic view that he had. So it is veyr important to understand why you seem to be at odds with your own faith. The fact is people believe based off a fear of a hell, as again if you do not fear going to hell you again have no reason to belief. So ask yourself do you not fear going to hell? If you do not then you have no reason to belief, because the fundemental view taught is to fear the deity in both Christianty and islam. So much so that there is a hell, for thos who are seen to do wrong.

Some people simply cannot work because they have disabilities or for example they cannot afford to work as they are the only one to look after the children and not all are educated to a standard which will enable them empployment that pays well enough. So some people can work and yes some are lazy also, but the fact is anyone is entittled top come here and work. You have no right to deny them this, your only argument would be that you are born to the land which is elitism. It is as simple as that.

I am very critical of the systems of other nations, that though is just a very woeful deflkection on your part as it is not the topic of debate here. If it was, i would say the very same and in fact be even more critical of any such defense offered by someone from the US or Australia based on fact they still deny self determination to the indegeneous of those country.

Yes I have donaated to the Nepal, being as I have been their twice, it was really sad to see this happen. I am not concerned as to what you think with me just stating I like to give. If you take that another way it just further proves my point in regards to your negative emotions you lead by where again you are very bitter and antsy.

The stuff about my faith is clearly an attempt to derail the thread, so it will be ignored.

Let's hear your specific views about the US then - have a go at Ben for a change.

Both of my jobs were acquired by my own efforts, and are nothing to do with Indians or anyone else. If you want to think that what you do is a result of what someone else did years ago in another country, that's up to you, but don't bother to lecture me.

The pointy on Christianity has every relevance to the debate, if the poster is Christian themselves because it shows up the hypocrisy of their point.
It is not my fault you dislike this being pointed out.
The reality is Jesus did teach to share.
You are claiming you have a right to deny people a right to share this land.
That means your own views are at odds with a Christian main view taught.


As to Ben, he also recognises the wrongs done to Black people through slavery, to hispanics, to the indegeneous. I have debated this many times and again its welath has come off the beginnings of slavery in that nation that made others wealthy and advantaged. I think you will find Ben in aggreement with me lol.
He will also feel lucky to have been born and to benefit from his nation.

Nobody said your job has anything to do with the past, which is why you are so easily confused. The system you are born into however most certainly has benefited off becoming wealthy which has led to being able to adavance the nation. With more wealth more can be done to benefit the people in that nation which has happened in the UK. Without that, the jobs you work in may never have even been available today for you, which again you fail to understand. Everything is connected to how this country came to have the advanatges you have from birth ovcer many others. From health care, to the education system etc

Raggs, pretty much everyone here has had a go at me It would be very strange for me if they stopped ...

It doesn't mean I don't value all you guys, though. Seriously, from my point of view and in light of my experiences, anybody who challenges me to think is a real treasure.

And I hope I don't come off as one of those Americans who pretends my country does everything right. I've always thought of myself as one of those who is the first to point out America's shortcomings. That's out of wanting my country to be better.

Nemesis wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nemesis wrote:

1) You are a Christian and thus religious and the tennants of Jesus teaching is in regards to sharing is it not. Yet you seem to be at odds with this basic view that he had. So it is veyr important to understand why you seem to be at odds with your own faith. The fact is people believe based off a fear of a hell, as again if you do not fear going to hell you again have no reason to belief. So ask yourself do you not fear going to hell? If you do not then you have no reason to belief, because the fundemental view taught is to fear the deity in both Christianty and islam. So much so that there is a hell, for thos who are seen to do wrong.

Some people simply cannot work because they have disabilities or for example they cannot afford to work as they are the only one to look after the children and not all are educated to a standard which will enable them empployment that pays well enough. So some people can work and yes some are lazy also, but the fact is anyone is entittled top come here and work. You have no right to deny them this, your only argument would be that you are born to the land which is elitism. It is as simple as that.

I am very critical of the systems of other nations, that though is just a very woeful deflkection on your part as it is not the topic of debate here. If it was, i would say the very same and in fact be even more critical of any such defense offered by someone from the US or Australia based on fact they still deny self determination to the indegeneous of those country.

Yes I have donaated to the Nepal, being as I have been their twice, it was really sad to see this happen. I am not concerned as to what you think with me just stating I like to give. If you take that another way it just further proves my point in regards to your negative emotions you lead by where again you are very bitter and antsy.

The stuff about my faith is clearly an attempt to derail the thread, so it will be ignored.

Let's hear your specific views about the US then - have a go at Ben for a change.

Both of my jobs were acquired by my own efforts, and are nothing to do with Indians or anyone else. If you want to think that what you do is a result of what someone else did years ago in another country, that's up to you, but don't bother to lecture me.

The pointy on Christianity has every relevance to the debate, if the poster is Christian themselves because it shows up the hypocrisy of their point.
It is not my fault you dislike this being pointed out.
The reality is Jesus did teach to share.
You are claiming you have a right to deny people a right to share this land.
That means your own views are at odds with a Christian main view taught.


As to Ben, he also recognises the wrongs done to Black people through slavery, to hispanics, to the indegeneous. I have debated this many times and again its welath has come off the beginnings of slavery in that nation that made others wealthy and advantaged. I think you will find Ben in aggreement with me lol.
He will also feel lucky to have been born and to benefit from his nation.

Nobody said your job has anything to do with the past, which is why you are so easily confused. The system you are born into however most certainly has benefited off becoming wealthy which has led to being able to adavance the nation. With more wealth more can be done to benefit the people in that nation which has happened in the UK. Without that, the jobs you work in may never have even been available today for you, which again you fail to understand. Everything is connected to how this country came to have the advanatges you have from birth ovcer many others. From health care, to the education system etc

That's pretty much spot-on, America has offered great benefits to its preferred classes. I just don't see any reason that the world's richest country can't do better by its poorest and worst-off. In fact, I'm sure it could.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nemesis wrote:



It is a very valid point to ask a Christian in regards to sharing.
Where you clearly are at odds with sharing this land.
So how is that not relevant?
Its like UKIP, they claim to stand for Christian values.
So I ask you, what Christian value do you kinow that states to not share?

I'm not going to pander to your bigotry and intolerance about religion. If you want to discuss religion, start another thread - it will go well with all the other anti-religion threads on here.

The only bigotry is coming from yourself because as seen you become defensive to valid critical aspects of religion, none of which you have been able to counter.
Now if you want to act like a child, then be my guest, but your replies keep backing my point on how negative, bitter and antsy you really are.
I will discuss anything I want, so to answer your point.
Tough, you do not get to call the shots of the debate and by you asking that I do clearly proves how valid this point was.

Ben_Reilly wrote:Raggs, pretty much everyone here has had a go at me It would be very strange for me if they stopped ...

It doesn't mean I don't value all you guys, though. Seriously, from my point of view and in light of my experiences, anybody who challenges me to think is a real treasure.

And I hope I don't come off as one of those Americans who pretends my country does everything right. I've always thought of myself as one of those who is the first to point out America's shortcomings. That's out of wanting my country to be better.

Well please don't encourage Didge in his anti-faith stuff then. It's nothing to do with what we were discussing, and I'd hate to see this thread derailed because of your dislike of religion.

Do you think that I should be able to go to the US and get a job without having to jump through hoops? I once applied for a job in another country which had restrictions, and sadly, it was too much hassle for them, so I didn't get it. I didn't sit there crying though - I just accepted that they put their own citizens first. I don't see what's so bad about that.

Nemesis wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I'm not going to pander to your bigotry and intolerance about religion. If you want to discuss religion, start another thread - it will go well with all the other anti-religion threads on here.

The only bigotry is coming from yourself because as seen you become defensive to valid critical aspects of religion, none of which you have been able to counter.
Now if you want to act like a child, then be my guest, but your replies keep backing my point on how negative, bitter and antsy you really are.
I will discuss anything I want, so to answer your point.
Tough, you do not get to call the shots of the debate and by you asking that I do clearly proves how valid this point was.

Talk to yourself or someone else then. I'm not going to be bullied by you - the flouncer who sat there calling someone a paedo over and over again.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nemesis wrote:


The only bigotry is coming from yourself because as seen you become defensive to valid critical aspects of religion, none of which you have been able to counter.
Now if you want to act like a child, then be my guest, but your replies keep backing my point on how negative, bitter and antsy you really are.
I will discuss anything I want, so to answer your point.
Tough, you do not get to call the shots of the debate and by you asking that I do clearly proves how valid this point was.

Talk to yourself or someone else then. I'm not going to be bullied by you - the flouncer who sat there calling someone a paedo over and over again.

Nobody is bullying you, that has to be the worst victim card played to date lol.
If you want to bow out, be my guest.

Nemesis wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Talk to yourself or someone else then. I'm not going to be bullied by you - the flouncer who sat there calling someone a paedo over and over again.

Nobody is bullying you, that has to be the worst victim card played to date lol.
If you want to bow out, be my guest.

You are a bully, and an arrogant one.

This is also the problem with some religious people, they get so defensive over just criticism of their faiths, as if ity is the worst crime possible.
Sorry it is not and like anything where there is bad ideas, then they should be criticised.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Raggs, pretty much everyone here has had a go at me It would be very strange for me if they stopped ...

It doesn't mean I don't value all you guys, though. Seriously, from my point of view and in light of my experiences, anybody who challenges me to think is a real treasure.

And I hope I don't come off as one of those Americans who pretends my country does everything right. I've always thought of myself as one of those who is the first to point out America's shortcomings. That's out of wanting my country to be better.

Well please don't encourage Didge in his anti-faith stuff then. It's nothing to do with what we were discussing, and I'd hate to see this thread derailed because of your dislike of religion.

Do you think that I should be able to go to the US and get a job without having to jump through hoops? I once applied for a job in another country which had restrictions, and sadly, it was too much hassle for them, so I didn't get it. I didn't sit there crying though - I just accepted that they put their own citizens first. I don't see what's so bad about that.

It's a complicated matter, but I think if you're the most qualified for a job you should get it. Anybody you're applying to should either want to be effective or to make lots of money, after all.

It's probably the issue that will eventually tear the Republican Party apart here. The supporters don't like those Latinos with their brown skin and their non-English language, but the rich people who fund the Republican candidates really want the Latinos here. Just like how they want to raise the age before you can qualify for Social Security. If they got their way on immigration and retirement age, there would be a bigger pool of job applicants, which would help them pay everyone less.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nemesis wrote:

Nobody is bullying you, that has to be the worst victim card played to date lol.
If you want to bow out, be my guest.

You are a bully, and an arrogant one.

And you are immature, negative, bitter and antsy, you plays the victem card when they have been weighed measured and found wanting in a debate.
Go and have a sulk if you want to, I am not going to lose any sleep over you spitting whinging.

Nemesis wrote:This is also the problem with some religious people, they get so defensive over just criticism of their faiths, as if ity is the worst crime possible.
Sorry it is not and like anything where there is bad ideas, then they should be criticised.

You're off topic, and it's obvious that you just want to bully me about my faith. That's what arrogant people like you do - they introduce red herrings in order to bully others.

Nemesis wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You are a bully, and an arrogant one.

And you are immature, negative, bitter and antsy, you plays the victem card when they have been weighed measured and found wanting in a debate.
Go and have a sulk if you want to, I am not going to lose any sleep over you spitting whinging.

Says the flouncer who rants like a kid throwing a tantrum, and then comes back two minutes later with his tail between his legs.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nemesis wrote:This is also the problem with some religious people, they get so defensive over just criticism of their faiths, as if ity is the worst crime possible.
Sorry it is not and like anything where there is bad ideas, then they should be criticised.

You're off topic, and it's obvious that you just want to bully me about my faith. That's what arrogant people like you do - they introduce red herrings in order to bully others.

When posters are religious and claim to be Christian in regards to a debate about sharing a land it has every relevance.
The problem with some religious people, they take too many things to heart and like hear play the victim card where there is justification to do so

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nemesis wrote:

And you are immature, negative, bitter and antsy, you plays the victem card when they have been weighed measured and found wanting in a debate.
Go and have a sulk if you want to, I am not going to lose any sleep over you spitting whinging.

Says the flouncer who rants like a kid throwing a tantrum, and then comes back two minutes later with his tail between his legs.

Have never been on this site before, so that is funny.


That also shows you have lost the debate and are quite the bitter child lol

Nemesis wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You're off topic, and it's obvious that you just want to bully me about my faith. That's what arrogant people like you do - they introduce red herrings in order to bully others.

When posters are religious and claim to be Christian in regards to a debate about sharing a land it has every relevance.
The problem with some religious people, they take too many things to heart and like hear play the victim card where there is justification to do so

Go and pick on Ben for saying that the Palestians own their land instead of derailing this thread. Go and pick on yourself for claiming that the Israelis have the right to do what they want in their own country.

Nemesis wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Says the flouncer who rants like a kid throwing a tantrum, and then comes back two minutes later with his tail between his legs.

Have never been on this site before, so that is funny.


That also shows you have lost the debate and are quite the bitter child lol

Hahahahahahahaha!

So you're a liar as well as a bully and a bigot.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nemesis wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You're off topic, and it's obvious that you just want to bully me about my faith. That's what arrogant people like you do - they introduce red herrings in order to bully others.

When posters are religious and claim to be Christian in regards to a debate about sharing a land it has every relevance.
The problem with some religious people, they take too many things to heart and like hear play the victim card where there is justification to do so

Go and pick on Ben for saying that the Palestians own their land instead of derailing this thread. Go and pick on yourself for claiming that the Israelis have the right to do what they want in their own country.

Just to be clear, I think everybody should be abiding by the 1967 treaty, as I've said before. The Israelis have their country. Their forced expansion is not right.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nemesis wrote:

Have never been on this site before, so that is funny.


That also shows you have lost the debate and are quite the bitter child lol

Hahahahahahahaha!

So you're a liar as well as a bully and a bigot.

PMSL, you really do not know who I am har har har har

Your victim card is really getting funnier by the minuet.

So rags gets comnpletely educated in a deabte and now deflects to claims of bullying and that a poster is someome else.


That is well and truely game set and match