'I support Ukip,'(and the SNP) says Moors murderer Ian Brady

by Irn Bru Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:50 pm

'I support Ukip,' says Moors murderer Ian Brady as he brands Cameron a 'public school millionaire' and Miliband a 'refugee, privileged German Jew' in bizarre letters

Moors murderer Ian Brady has revealed he is a Ukip supporter and thinks David Dimbleby is an 'establishment dumpling'.

The 77-year-old wrote the letters from his bed at Ashworth psychiatric hospital in Merseyside.

Brady was jailed for life in 1966 after torturing and killing five children with his then-girlfriend Myra Hindley.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3055928/Moors-murderer-Ian-Brady-reveals-Ukip-supporter-brands-David-Dimbleby-establishment-dumpling-series-ranting-letters-Ashworth-hospital.html

Oh dear.

by eddie Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:37 pm

Erm so??? Does it mean that UKIP are an Wful awful party because an awful awful man supports them?

This story only makes headlines had it been the other way round.

Pfffff. Cheap shots.
It makes all you rabid and blind supporters of parties so blinkered and desperate! Rolling Eyes

Wonder if Rolf Harrie supported labour? Or Conservatives?

Or...?

Who cares?!

by nicko Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:41 pm

A later report says he supports the SNP. As a matter of interest why would you say that, another report to make UKIP look bad. I thought better of you.

by Irn Bru Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:09 pm

eddie wrote:Erm so??? Does it mean that UKIP are an Wful awful party because an awful awful man supports them?

This story only makes headlines had it been the other way round.

Pfffff. Cheap shots.
It makes all you rabid and blind supporters of parties so blinkered and desperate!

Wonder if Rolf Harrie supported labour? Or Conservatives?

Or...?

Who cares?!

No, it doesn't mean that because he supports them that they are an awful party. They already have enough candidates and activists of their own as it is that get exposed quite often for their extreme views. All it shows is that he supports UKIP to get rid of the people he and the parties he names in his letters which does include the SNP.

He's a sick pervert and I doubt anyone would take seriously what he has to say on anything.

I think the headline would be similar even if it had been another party that he said he supported.

Calm down - this one's from the Daily Mail Laughing

by eddie Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:20 pm

Ah the Daily Mail.
Not even a story then lol!

by Irn Bru Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:37 pm

eddie wrote:Ah the Daily Mail.
Not even a story then

Just news. And for a bit of balance I'll add this from the bizarre letters.

However, I hope that UKIP not only wipes out the Lib-Dems but also decimates the Tory and Labour vote, and that the SNP achieves the same in Scotland

Everybody happy now Laughing

by Guest Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:39 pm

Silly article posted for one purpose to place UKIP on a par with a child murderer.

It does not get any lower than that really.

The party maybe be many things, but that is quite pathetic to post an article like that by the media.

by nicko Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:56 am

Also pathetic for IRN to bring it up!

by Guest Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:57 am

nicko wrote:Also pathetic for IRN to bring it up!

Indeed, if this had been posted about the labour party, he would have been spitting blood over this.

by Guest Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:14 am

Christ almighty, if all else fails link it to the Moors murders.
Pathetic, utterly utterly pathetic.

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:07 pm

Is this the best the media can throw at UKIP!!!???

rofl

Next they will be claiming a quote from the devil himself saying he supports UKIP!!!

Or an ISIS leader with a machette in one hand and a severed head in the other shouting "UKIP akbar!"!!!

Fuckin pathetic and quite frankly displaying the desperation in THe lib lab con camps!

lol!

by Ben Reilly Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:15 pm

I remember when bin Laden backed John McCain, didn't turn out so well for McCain Smile

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/22/al-qaeda-supporters-endor_n_136779.html

by Eilzel Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:21 am

I don't we need a quote from the devil to confirm his view of UKIP, he's the gurning one always photographed with a pint isn't he? Wink

by Tommy Monk Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:05 am

Yeah, righto les, a man who was totally against the illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan which has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, totally destabilized the whole region and led to The rise of ISIS, someone who has called for Syrian refugees to be taken in by UK and other surrounding countries... a man who is standing up for our democracy and The return of it to the British people by the return of our powers to our national parliament and back from the illegal lib lab con give away of this to the EU dictatorship...

Come on les, you need to start growing up a bit and start thinking for yourself based on The real facts... stop your childish 'leftie propaganda good anything else bad' programming...

You cannot support democracy and our right to self govt, self rule and self determination as well as supporting the illegal EU construct which is quickly evolving into a totalitarian fascist dictatorship.

The two are opposites like sanity and insanity!!!

Think man!

Think!!!

by Eilzel Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:17 am

I don't share the view the EU is anti-democracy tommy, and I have had discussions on this subject for years in fact I was once anti-EU for a while myself when I was younger, and honestly, less informed (though in my high school and college years when my interest in politics was just starting I was pro-EU).

And obviously I don't think Farage is the devil, I was taking piss. Nice reaction though.

Many opposed Iraq, myself included, and the Liberals who you so often attack.

by Tommy Monk Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:06 am

Eilzel wrote:I don't share the view the EU is anti-democracy tommy

Really...!!!??? Nobody has ever voted FOR it... the people at the top and in control are completely self appointed and never been elected... Tory and labour have illegally given away 80% of control over our country to this EU against the wishes of and without the permission of The people... lying and cheating us throughout the weaseling treachery... do you need more examples les... really!!!???

by veya_victaous Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:29 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Eilzel wrote:I don't share the view the EU is anti-democracy tommy

Really...!!!??? Nobody has ever voted FOR it... the people at the top and in control are completely self appointed and never been elected... Tory and labour have illegally given away 80% of control over our country to this EU against the wishes of and without the permission of The people... lying and cheating us throughout the weaseling treachery... do you need more examples les... really!!!???

this is the problem people do not understand democracy
YOU DON'T VOTE FOR ANY POLICY,
you vote to elect a Representative that votes on policies.
it was passed by the majority of your representatives therefore it was democratically enacted.
they don't need permission if you grant them power which was done. nothing in the Westminster system makes any part of this illegal.

shit or not, it is not illegal, it is the way democracy is supposed to work by giving more power and influence to the rich that can afford to buy policies in their favor from politicians Rolling Eyes

by Tommy Monk Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:08 am

Wrong!!!

Democracy is not something that can be given away by any elected representative!!!

Firstly it has not had the permission of The people to do so, secondly this then ceases to be a democracy if the powers are handed over to others to control without the input of the people being The deciding factor of govt.

Which bit of 'Democracy' do you not understand...!?

Wake up you leftie twat!!!

Do you stand for freedom and democracy or not...!!!???

by Eilzel Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:09 am

If the people of Britain really wanted out of the EU that much they'd vote UKIP. If they wanted the choice they'd vote Tory who will offer a referendum. So we'll see what happens next week, there's akways a choice.

Democracy where we had a referendum on everything wouldn't work, it is ludicrous that on this subject and same sex marriage in the past matti think the standard way parliamentary democracy works is wrong.

by Tommy Monk Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:38 am

Lib lab con have all promised a say on EU while signing more of our country away and denying it...

That is all you need to remember...

There has never been any democratic consent to The current EU construct...

Democracy...

The definition of a democracy is a form of government in which the people rule,
either directly or through elected representatives

Elected representatives cannot give away the peoples control on their democracy!!!

What bit of Democracy do you fail to understand...!!!???

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:46 am

Here is why people are so short sighted.

It does not matter who makes the laws as long as the laws are fair and right for all.

The only reason some seem to get upset is due to nationalism.

So they think being British makes them believe they are the only ones that decided what happens in that country which is ironic considering it is has been Britain deciding the lives of millions of people of different nationalities from a quarter of the known world for countless years.

Where was all the Tommies in the UK screaming for nations to have self determination?

It never happened, and now when our nation does vote for elected MEP's, what do some of them do, not bother to have the interests of the British people at heart. They happen to be the UKIP MEP's which is ironic, showing they have British people interest least at heart and have their own throwing their dummies out not getting their way attitude at heart.

Yes the EU needs reform and a far more fairer elective system that all get to vote for one where they are all fairly represented. No country should be allowed by others to be openly discriminated against. All this means is the system needs reform, you do not need to leave something that benefits your nation more than it would do to be out of. If people claim it is better to be one nation than a group of nations as a then collective power, then they do not know what they are talking about.

So what is the gripe by some British people in regards to the EU.
Well?

A tiny fraction of their laws, most laws we actually agree with and implement because they are good laws. Now not every law is going to make every single person happy, just as would be the same if it was that host nation making the laws.

The fact is both Switzerland and Norway both of which are not in the EU, have to pay to trade in the EU and both also have to abide by many EU laws. So basically we would have to abide by the same as the EU is not going to make the UK a special case.

Now if people are concerned at the numbers of free movements, of which both Switzerland and Norway also abide to then you seek to change and make reforms. Britain on its own is a pale comparison to the economic power of the collective power of the EU, let alone its combined armed forces. We are for all intents and purposes a small nation, which if there was an economic collapse in this country and again and the UK had left the EU, we would be very much screwed on on levels.

The fact is we still have a great say in our own laws, and always have done. The fact is when you actually weigh up the arguments on leaving the EU they place the UK at a disadvantage on every level.

Yes the EU needs reform, the daft thing to do would be to leave the EU and lose all its benefits that we have.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu_make_uk_law-29587

by veya_victaous Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:52 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Wrong!!!

Democracy is not something that can be given away by any elected representative!!!

Firstly it has not had the permission of The people to do so, secondly this then ceases to be a democracy if the powers are handed over to others to control without the input of the people being The deciding factor of govt.

Which bit of 'Democracy' do you not understand...!?

Wake up you leftie twat!!!

Do you stand for freedom and democracy or not...!!!???

Read the constitution
You don't live in the USA !!!!
they most certainly can, the ONLY LEVEL OF DEMOCRACY is you get to elect a representative you have NEVER EVER in the history of Britain Voted on ANY POLICY We have not either! that is NOT the way the Westminster System Works!!! (only after a policy gets made a referendum is it possible)

Which bit of REPRESENTATIVE democracy do you not understand?.. NO WESTERN NATION Has direct democracy which you seem to think exists. (it is purely theoretically, never been implemented as it is always perverted by Royals and 'Conservatives' literally since Plato was alive over 2000 years ago) And no it has nothing to do with people ruling, for most of history voting was restricted to rich land owners it is the alternative to deciding laws based on the bible, 'theocracy' is the opposite of 'democracy'...

@Les
but even offering referendum is a choice to appease the masses, they don't need to, no constitutional requirement for them to. whether is EU is good or bad is debatable, in principal it is good but there does seem a lot of backroom deals and that cannot possibly be good.
Personally i like technocracy because direct democracy is possible where we elect ministers to propose policies that can be confirmed by popular vote. if everyone has a smart phone and a voting app it would be a workable solution (but polling booths etc obviously not)

by Eilzel Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:45 am

I agree on the reason that a referendum may be offered veya, it is purely an appeal to people who have been riled up by the RW media.

I agree on with the EU re:backroom deals. It absolutely needs reform. But we absolutely must be there when those reforms are made, a must remain part of the EU in any case. It is potentially national suicide to opt out of a mega-economy when you consider the power blocks that will dominate trade and resources in decades to come.

I'm not interested in people getting to confirm things in popular votes. We elect people whose job it is to ensure our country is governed efficiently. And for all the mistakes and greed and corruption, Britain remains a successful country compared with most others, politically and economically.

Giving people a vote on every policy, especially by apps or by phone, is frivolous and would lead to good policies being thwarted and bad ones brought to the fore for populist appeal. Politics isn't reality TV. Some people might want a say on everything because they have an opinion on everything. It would become a tabloid run political system- a disaster if there ever was.

by Tommy Monk Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:29 pm

What a load of bollocks you lot talk!!!

Of course it matters who makes the laws and currently we have 80% of our laws dictated to us from elsewhere.

Our politicians are puppets having their strings pulled by others, not by the people of The country whos job it is to work for.

They come out with all the false promises there are round election time and then once the people vote them in they just run off laughing patting each other on The backs, stick two fingers up at the rest of us And carry on regardless.

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:33 pm

Blimey its like debating Irn again.

Seriously address the points posted by myself and others and not continue to repeat yourself.

Its reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally boring.

Thanks

by Tommy Monk Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:38 pm

Coming from you dodge...!!!

lol!:

Is that why you keep changing your ID???

So you can keep bringing up the same tired old points that have been smashed before but under a new ID to pretend they are brand new points by a brand new poster???

lol!

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:41 pm

So the answer Tommy now wants to give is that he needs a wee wee in his potty.

Seriously answer the points or do not bother wasting everyones time

by nicko Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:41 pm

Tommy is correct when he says most of our laws are made by the Eu, and that being 'the case why have we got over 600 MP's who are supposed to make them? A good portion of them are in it for the money they can make and the women they can bed.does any one think we could reduce them by at least half?

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:43 pm

Sorry Nicko he is again talking utter bollocks:

Simply counting laws does not consider that some laws have more impact than others.
Quoted figures vary wildly from under 10% to 70%.
It’s possible to justify any measure between about 15% to 50% depending on which definition of ‘UK law’ you look at.

Counting the uncountable

It makes little sense to treat major Acts of Parliament such as the 457 page Health and Social Care Act 2012 which reformed the whole NHS the same as, say, three pages of technical regulations on VAT fraud. On the other hand, there’s no way to quantify the importance and impact of laws generally.
The House of Commons Library warned that “there is no totally accurate, rational or useful way of calculating the percentage of national laws based on or influenced by the EU.”
So no set of figures can give us a good measure of the influence of the EU on law in the UK, though all sides agree it’s significant.

15 to 50%

In 2010, the House of Commons library published a comprehensive analysis of the variety of ways this percentage can be calculated. There are difficulties with all measurements, but they concluded “it is possible to justify any measure between 15% and 50% or thereabouts”.
The figures depend on which UK law is included in the calculation, and the extent of ‘EU influence’ that we look at. There is no single interpretation of UK law, it can include: Acts put in place by the UK Parliament; rules and regulations drawn up by Ministers; and regulations produced by the EU which apply here in the UK.
A combination of these interpretations results in the following estimates:
1: Acts put in place by UK Parliament with EU influence – accounts for 10-14%
2: Regulations influenced by or related to the EU – accounts for 9-14%
3. EU regulations and regulations influenced by or related to the EU – accounts for 53%
'I support Ukip,'(and the SNP) says Moors murderer Ian Brady UK-law

'I support Ukip,'(and the SNP) says Moors murderer Ian Brady UK-law

Mix-ups with the European Parliament

Sometimes a figure of 70% is used — including in February 2014 by Viviane Reding, the Vice-President of the European Commission — but this is actually the percentage of EU laws that the European Parliament (elected representatives of each EU country) and the European Council (representatives of the governments of each EU country) have had an equal say on.
The rest are either decided solely by the Council, or with Parliament giving the Council consent to them being passed. In other words, it’s the percentage of EU law that the politicians we elect to the European Parliament have as much say on as our national government.
The official position of the European Parliament is that is that “a big portion of the laws adopted by the House of Commons and House of Lords actually are EU-laws that are made into national laws by the national parliaments”. When we asked for their source, they cited the House of Commons Library research we present here as well as examples from elsewhere in Europe.

Acts, UK regulations and EU regulations – what’s the difference?

The first thing to say is that simply counting up the variety of ‘EU influenced’ UK laws, which vary from Acts to protect against terrorism through to regulations on olive growing, does not provide a conclusive picture.

Acts put in place by our Parliament (10-14%)

The first method considers Acts which have “incorporated a degree of EU influence”. This varies from ones which make only a passing reference to EU obligations to ones where the main purpose of the Act is to implement EU obligations. The lower percentage in this case is reached by looking only at those implementing EU laws or measures.

UK regulations (9-14%)

Most EU regulations or orders do not need our Parliament to pass an Act. The form of law where EU influence shows more is in regulations produced by individual departmental Ministers, which tend to look in more detail at a subject area.
The estimates consist of regulations called Statutory Instruments which are made as part of the European Communities Act – which authorises the Government to implement EU law by Acts or forms of regulations – as well as regulations of the same type which relate to the EU.

EU regulations (counted with UK regulations, 53%)

Some EU initiatives do not need to be made into laws at a national level, but are implemented through ‘EU regulations’. EU regulations have binding legal force throughout every Member State. This method therefore considers EU regulations alongside the EU-related regulations from method 2.
Aside from problems of definition, these calculations are based on a search of national law databases and the EU’s EUR-Lex database and therefore have immediate problems in terms of how robust the search terms were and whether all ‘laws’ were inputted to the database. Incorporating or excluding EU regulations – some of which relate to things such as olive growing regulations and therefore will not directly impact on the UK – are likely to either overestimate EU influence or underestimate it. Counting these things alone does not tell us enough about where the power lies.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu_make_uk_law-29587

by Tommy Monk Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:48 pm

Here is one of The unelected and self appointed EU commissioners (who make all the laws and rules) admitting that 80% of our national laws are dictated to us by EU...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHp6wCc-TSc

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:49 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Here is one of The unelected and self appointed EU commissioners (who make all the laws and rules) admitting that 80% of our national laws are dictated to us by EU...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHp6wCc-TSc

Try reading what has been posted before ending up with egg on your face:

Mix-ups with the European Parliament

Sometimes a figure of 70% is used — including in February 2014 by Viviane Reding, the Vice-President of the European Commission — but this is actually the percentage of EU laws that the European Parliament (elected representatives of each EU country) and the European Council (representatives of the governments of each EU country) have had an equal say on.
The rest are either decided solely by the Council, or with Parliament giving the Council consent to them being passed. In other words, it’s the percentage of EU law that the politicians we elect to the European Parliament have as much say on as our national government.
The official position of the European Parliament is that is that “a big portion of the laws adopted by the House of Commons and House of Lords actually are EU-laws that are made into national laws by the national parliaments”. When we asked for their source, they cited the House of Commons Library research we present here as well as examples from elsewhere in Europe.

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:47 pm

The E.U.

the lefty wet dream of total contol
and the final destruction of individuality
as the E.U continues ALLsmall (and especially one man band) businesses will be "regulated out of existance"
therby making EVERYONE UTTERLY dependant upon the state...
(since you will not have the choice to "opt out" and run your own life )

YOU DO realise whats next down the line dont you

I give it 5 to 10 years and ALL your income will be taken by the state (the E.U) who will then pay out your "pocket money pittance"

all in the name of "tax control " of course......

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:50 pm

darknessss wrote:The E.U.

the lefty wet dream of total contol
and the final destruction of individuality
as the E.U continues ALLsmall (and especially one man band) businesses will be "regulated out of existance"
therby making EVERYONE UTTERLY dependant upon the state...
(since you will not have the choice to "opt out" and run your own life )

YOU DO realise whats next down the line dont you

I give it 5 to 10 years and ALL your income will be taken by the state (the E.U) who will then pay out your "pocket money pittance"

all in the name of "tax control " of course......

Left?

Nothing to do with any dream but what is better for a nation.

So let me ask you.

Are you better off on your own or with others behind you in business deals?
Are you better off on your own or with others behind you in conflicts?
Are you better off on your own or with others behind you in financial difficulty?

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:54 pm

as an individual....

I stand to be f**ked by the E.U...

and put out of business

The eu does NOTHING for my business nor for 10,s of 1000,s of other one man band businesses...

.
and all those tiny, small businesses do as much OR MORE for the economy as any single large business...

and probably a LOT more since we pay or fair taxes....unlike the big boys and their tax loopholes

by Ben Reilly Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:54 pm

darknessss wrote:The E.U.

the lefty wet dream of total contol
and the final destruction of individuality
as the E.U continues ALLsmall (and especially one man band) businesses will be "regulated out of existance"
therby making EVERYONE UTTERLY dependant upon the state...
(since you will not have the choice to "opt out" and run your own life )

YOU DO realise whats next down the line dont you

I give it 5 to 10 years and ALL your income will be taken by the state (the E.U) who will then pay out your "pocket money pittance"

all in the name of "tax control " of course......

It's funny, you couldn't be more wrong about the left and it's been demonstrated to you, but you keep repeating the same few false premises like a mantra Smile

Yes, we on the left want total control, that's why we're the ones saying it's awesome if you want to be a gay atheist stay-at-home dad, or a transgender Muslim CEO, or part of a married white Christian heterosexual couple with a house in the suburbs and 2.4 children.

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:56 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
darknessss wrote:The E.U.

the lefty wet dream of total contol
and the final destruction of individuality
as the E.U continues ALLsmall (and especially one man band) businesses will be "regulated out of existance"
therby making EVERYONE UTTERLY dependant upon the state...
(since you will not have the choice to "opt out" and run your own life )

YOU DO realise whats next down the line dont you

I give it 5 to 10 years and ALL your income will be taken by the state (the E.U) who will then pay out your "pocket money pittance"

all in the name of "tax control " of course......

It's funny, you couldn't be more wrong about the left and it's been demonstrated to you, but you keep repeating the same few false premises like a mantra

Yes, we on the left want total control, that's why we're the ones saying it's awesome if you want to be a gay atheist stay-at-home dad, or a transgender Muslim CEO, or part of a married white Christian heterosexual couple with a house in the suburbs and 2.4 children.

But NOT if you want to be a single business owner minding your own business and being independant of state dependancy

the LEFTY control is the control of the parent with the pocket money
the iron fist in the velvet glove of state dependancy....

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:58 pm

and NOT of you want to do something or hold a view different to the "approved" one....

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:59 pm

darknessss wrote:as an individual....

I stand to be f**ked by the E.U...

and put out of business

The eu does NOTHING for my business nor for 10,s of 1000,s of other one man band businesses...

.
and all those tiny, small businesses do as much OR MORE for the economy as any single large business...

and probably a LOT more since we pay or fair taxes....unlike the big boys and their tax loopholes

Stand to be fucked, if you believe you are, whilst many others benefit from a combined economic power house that actually benefits the nation.
The EU needs reform, but I fail to see how it is inherently bad as you claim, when it has the capability of doing far much more for the people of this country.
Most reasons are based on nationalist views, failing to comprehend that this nation agrees the vast majority of the laws it implements. It matters not who makes and creates the laws, as long as the laws are right. If they are wrong then being in the EU gives you the ability to counter them.

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:03 pm

"Yes, we on the left want total control, that's why we're the ones saying it's awesome if you want to be a gay atheist stay-at-home dad, or a transgender Muslim CEO, or part of a married white Christian heterosexual couple with a house in the suburbs and 2.4 children."

See this is WHY the left are pillocks,
The above is important to them, indeed to the exclusion of almost everything else(unless it involves screwing with and interfering with peoples lives)

and the right is no better because the same (but from the converse view ) applies

terminally stupid the lot of em

to me those issues are...irrelevant

to the point of not even worth considering.....

lets think......does being gay harm anyone???

erm...nope.......

so WHATS THE FERKING FUSS ABOUT????

etc

both left and right focus on trivia that is wrongly used for control....

seriously both sides...grow up.....

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:05 pm

Yes thanks for that epic mouth watering outburst.

Now shall we get back to the points:

Nothing to do with any dream but what is better for a nation.

So let me ask you.

Are you better off on your own or with others behind you in business deals?
Are you better off on your own or with others behind you in conflicts?
Are you better off on your own or with others behind you in financial difficulty?

Stand to be fucked, if you believe you are, whilst many others benefit from a combined economic power house that actually benefits the nation.
The EU needs reform, but I fail to see how it is inherently bad as you claim, when it has the capability of doing far much more for the people of this country.
Most reasons are based on nationalist views, failing to comprehend that this nation agrees the vast majority of the laws it implements. It matters not who makes and creates the laws, as long as the laws are right. If they are wrong then being in the EU gives you the ability to counter them.

by Ben Reilly Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:06 pm

darknessss wrote:"Yes, we on the left want total control, that's why we're the ones saying it's awesome if you want to be a gay atheist stay-at-home dad, or a transgender Muslim CEO, or part of a married white Christian heterosexual couple with a house in the suburbs and 2.4 children."

See this is WHY the left are pillocks,
The above is important to them, indeed to the exclusion of almost everything else(unless it involves screwing with and interfering with peoples lives)

and the right is no better because the same (but from the converse view ) applies

terminally stupid the lot of em

to me those issues are...irrelevant

to the point of not even worth considering.....

lets think......does being gay harm anyone???

erm...nope.......

so WHATS THE FERKING FUSS ABOUT????

etc

both left and right focus on trivia that is wrongly used for control....

seriously both sides...grow up.....

You're not really that dumb, are you? The reason these things are important to the left is that people on the right try to dictate how you have to live if you're to make it in society. Did I ever tell you my own father turned down a qualified job applicant years ago just because he could "tell" the applicant was gay?

Let's see -- I bet equality of opportunity was pretty important to that applicant. What do you think?

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:16 pm

Nemesis wrote:
darknessss wrote:as an individual....

I stand to be f**ked by the E.U...

and put out of business

The eu does NOTHING for my business nor for 10,s of 1000,s of other one man band businesses...

.
and all those tiny, small businesses do as much OR MORE for the economy as any single large business...

and probably a LOT more since we pay or fair taxes....unlike the big boys and their tax loopholes

Stand to be fucked, if you believe you are, whilst many others benefit from a combined economic power house that actually benefits the nation.
The EU needs reform, but I fail to see how it is inherently bad as you claim, when it has the capability of doing far much more for the people of this country.
Most reasons are based on nationalist views, failing to comprehend that this nation agrees the vast majority of the laws it implements. It matters not who makes and creates the laws, as long as the laws are right. If they are wrong then being in the EU gives you the ability to counter them.

which shows just how clueless you are

the regualtions are applied as is across the board.

I am expected to obey these (mainly unnecessary) regualations in exactly the same way , and pay EXACTLY (NOT PRO RATA) the same as a multi million pound business

say for instance I built some of these alarms I'm working on for sale....

I would have to carry out the same regualtory frame work as BAE as far as the EMC directive....the Low Volatge device directive the automotive directive
etc etc etc

and then keep the same records....

simply unaffordable.....utterly...

I dont as part of my wood working make toys anymore....

the E.U has seen that off.......

I cant afford the cost of "compliance"

It costs me the same as any huge toy manufacturer,,,,,,

now tell me the E.U isnt anti small business.....

and yet it is quite openly admitted that the regs COULD easily be ammended to ease the burden for small businesses...with very simple changes....

BUT they have NO intention fo doing so

FOR instance there is the chemicals in toys regs

now under this EVERY bit of timber I use for toys MUST pass "chemical purity tests"

THIS IS patent nonsense

NONE of the chemicals tested for are EVER present in fresh virgin timber in anything like the amounts prohibited...
this is a proveable and indisputed FACT

what it effectively means is that every piece of timber I use would have to be tested (since I Cant afford to have a ship load at a time) at over £100 a test
a big business however buys whole trees and has perhaps 5 tests done....

now AMERICA is sensible here and ITS toy regs say if its made from VIRGIN timber it doesnt need testing.....

(since virgin timber is demonstrably clear of the offending chemicals)

you know nowt nemesis.......

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:18 pm

Oh and you can stop[ that chidish "repeat posting" game with me laddo....

or you will find yourself short of someone to argue with...

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:23 pm

You mean you were evading answering.

Just say so if you have no answer, of which is evident that you do not.

This is the reality of the situation.

You are bemoaning a group of elected people making some laws within a made the boundary that covers hundreds of millions of people compared to a group of elected people making most laws for 62 million people within a smaller made up boundary.

I fail to see what the fuss is.

Its like saying only one groups humans within a made up boundary can make the only correct laws, compared to another group of humans that includes some of the first one within a bigger made up boundary.

That is what you call the definition of absurd.

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:23 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
darknessss wrote:"Yes, we on the left want total control, that's why we're the ones saying it's awesome if you want to be a gay atheist stay-at-home dad, or a transgender Muslim CEO, or part of a married white Christian heterosexual couple with a house in the suburbs and 2.4 children."

See this is WHY the left are pillocks,
The above is important to them, indeed to the exclusion of almost everything else(unless it involves screwing with and interfering with peoples lives)

and the right is no better because the same (but from the converse view ) applies

terminally stupid the lot of em

to me those issues are...irrelevant

to the point of not even worth considering.....

lets think......does being gay harm anyone???

erm...nope.......

so WHATS THE FERKING FUSS ABOUT????

etc

both left and right focus on trivia that is wrongly used for control....

seriously both sides...grow up.....

You're not really that dumb, are you? The reason these things are important to the left is that people on the right try to dictate how you have to live if you're to make it in society. Did I ever tell you my own father turned down a qualified job applicant years ago just because he could "tell" the applicant was gay?

Let's see -- I bet equality of opportunity was pretty important to that applicant. What do you think?

so your father was a r/w er??

what part of BOTH sides being short of wisdom do you miss....

gawd its lonely being the only evolved person on here.....

see...i dont give a freakin shit wheter some one is gay black white pink green religious athiest big dick no dick

just STOP ferkin about with MY life with your constant bickering

ME...for gawds sake ...I just want to make a living and NOT have your "collective noses" poked into MY life....

I REALLY dont care if the bloke next door is a (whatever).....as long as his (whateverness) does not pose a threat to my (whateverness)

Right and left......should round the lot up and stand em against a brick wall......

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:25 pm

Nemesis wrote:You mean were you evaded answering.

Just say so if you have no answer, of which is evident that you do not.

This is the reality of the situation.

You are bemoaning a group of elected people making some laws within a made the boundary that covers hundreds of millions of people compared to a group of elected people making most laws for 62 million people within a smaller made up boundary.

I fail to see what the fuss is.

Its like saying only one groups humans within a made up boundary can make the only correct laws, compared to another group of humans that includes some of the first one within a bigger made up boundary.

That is what you call the definition of absurd.

you mean YOU failed to read my post AGAIN......

or read what you THOUGHT was there rather than what IS there.....

try again....

about how the regs are destroying small businesses....

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:28 pm

darknessss wrote:
Nemesis wrote:You mean were you evaded answering.

Just say so if you have no answer, of which is evident that you do not.

This is the reality of the situation.

You are bemoaning a group of elected people making some laws within a made the boundary that covers hundreds of millions of people compared to a group of elected people making most laws for 62 million people within a smaller made up boundary.

I fail to see what the fuss is.

Its like saying only one groups humans within a made up boundary can make the only correct laws, compared to another group of humans that includes some of the first one within a bigger made up boundary.

That is what you call the definition of absurd.

you mean YOU failed to read my post AGAIN......

or read what you THOUGHT was there rather than what IS there.....

try again....

about how the regs are destroying small businesses....

That is babble, where in fact small businesses are thriving in the UK.

Again, the problem you have is some made up conception called nationalism.

You think only people in this country have your best interest at heart, which is pure nonsense of course.

What matters is having laws that are equal, yet you seem to think every thing should cater for you.

Sorry, that is selfish and shows you are living very much in the past.

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:32 pm

since basic economics seems beyond you I'll make it simple

If I wanted (as I used to ) make toys

becasue I cant buy 5 01 20 trees worth of timber at once

virtually EVERY piece of timber I buy HAS to be tested (at £100 a test)

this means that each toy is going to have a starting penalty of £100 on it

so each (mediun sized) toy I make is going to cost OVER £100 immeidtely thats with no profit or costs covered

BIG business buys 20 TREES

and pays £2000 to have them tested

each tree will make 1000+ toys

so the starting penalty on THEIR product is ......10p....thats right TEN PENCE

and thats just the cost of production

then there is the cost of regualtory "recording"

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:35 pm

darknessss wrote:since basic economics seems beyond you I'll make it simple

If I wanted (as I used to ) make toys

becasue I cant buy 5 01 20 trees worth of timber at once

virtually EVERY piece of timber I buy HAS to be tested (at £100 a test)

this means that each toy is going to have a starting penalty of £100 on it

so each (mediun sized) toy I make is going to cost OVER £100 immeidtely thats with no profit or costs covered

BIG business buys 20 TREES

and pays £2000 to have them tested

each tree will make 1000+ toys

so the starting penalty on THEIR product is ......10p....thats right TEN PENCE

and thats just the cost of production

then there is the cost of regualtory "recording"

That is your argument Timber

Thank you for making me laugh.

No economics I am very good on thanks.

I agree with the money put on this as Trees are part of the environment.

You thinking again of your own pocket

That is called being selfish

Help small firms thrive in new markets

With nearly nine in ten (88%) small UK exporters trading within Europe, it is essential that MEPs prise open the Single Market and help small businesses thrive in new markets.

by Guest Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:36 pm

Nemesis wrote:
darknessss wrote:

you mean YOU failed to read my post AGAIN......

or read what you THOUGHT was there rather than what IS there.....

try again....

about how the regs are destroying small businesses....

That is babble, where in fact small businesses are thriving in the UK.

Bull shit....some small businesses are (for the moment) but NOT small (one man band) type producers, those that are thriving are "service providers"...

Again, the problem you have is some made up conception called nationalism.

You think only people in this country have your best interest at heart, which is pure nonsense of course.

What matters is having laws that are equal, yet you seem to think every thing should cater for you.

Sorry, that is selfish and shows you are living very much in the past.

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