How Was The Great Pyramid At Giza Constructed?

• This pyramid appears to be the final evolution of pyramid building that evolved from the mud brick mastabas which were supposedly the resting place of important dignitaries.
  
• The Great Pyramid has only one cartouche above the King’s chamber that purports to indicate that it is the burial chamber of Khufu (Cheops).
  
• This pyramid was covered with smooth white casing stones that partially collapsed after a severe earthquake and were later used as a “quarry” to construct some buildings in Cairo, notably the Mosque and Madrassa of Sultan Hassan (completed in 1359). Some of these stones contained hieroglyphics. The Greek historian Herodotus claims to have seen the Great Pyramid before the casing stones were removed.
  
• If some of the casing stones did contain hieroglyphics and if these stones were scattered around Lower Egypt, finding them and deciphering them could lead to some further understanding as to the construction of the pyramid.
  

Brasidas wrote:In this article, John McCauley uses his experience as an Architect and Construction Manager to critically analyse the construction scheme for building the Khufu pyramid and the popular theory of the use of an internal ramp.

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There has been an innumerable quantity of books written about the construction of the pyramids at Giza, Egypt. So too have there been any number of different theories on how the construction of these pyramids was accomplished, with each new or expanded theory accompanied by a description stating that it was the “definitive” solution, or “the puzzle finally solved”, etc. Of late, a few authors have focused on the “internal ramp solution” as being the most plausible explanation on how the ancient Egyptians built the Great Pyramid. Indeed, some Archaeologists have also acclaimed this “internal ramp solution” as a creative explanation for this ages-old construction mystery. Most Archaeologists, however, lack the technical training or understanding of the nature of structural forces to make a qualified endorsement of this proposed solution. Let me first state that this “internal ramp solution” represents a complete lack of understanding on how gravity affects structures and why this theory bears no serious thought in the academic world. Before I get into an analysis of why “internal ramps” do not work, let me state very clearly that I honestly do not know exactly how the Great Pyramid was actually built, but I think there are clues that may lead to a reasonable explanation in the future.
Let me first outline some of the facts that we do know about the Great Pyramid of Giza:

• This pyramid appears to be the final evolution of pyramid building that evolved from the mud brick mastabas which were supposedly the resting place of important dignitaries.
  
• The Great Pyramid has only one cartouche above the King’s chamber that purports to indicate that it is the burial chamber of Khufu (Cheops).
  
• This pyramid was covered with smooth white casing stones that partially collapsed after a severe earthquake and were later used as a “quarry” to construct some buildings in Cairo, notably the Mosque and Madrassa of Sultan Hassan (completed in 1359). Some of these stones contained hieroglyphics. The Greek historian Herodotus claims to have seen the Great Pyramid before the casing stones were removed.
  
• If some of the casing stones did contain hieroglyphics and if these stones were scattered around Lower Egypt, finding them and deciphering them could lead to some further understanding as to the construction of the pyramid.
  

http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/McCauleyJ1.php

korban dallas wrote:

Brasidas wrote:In this article, John McCauley uses his experience as an Architect and Construction Manager to critically analyse the construction scheme for building the Khufu pyramid and the popular theory of the use of an internal ramp.

---

There has been an innumerable quantity of books written about the construction of the pyramids at Giza, Egypt. So too have there been any number of different theories on how the construction of these pyramids was accomplished, with each new or expanded theory accompanied by a description stating that it was the “definitive” solution, or “the puzzle finally solved”, etc. Of late, a few authors have focused on the “internal ramp solution” as being the most plausible explanation on how the ancient Egyptians built the Great Pyramid. Indeed, some Archaeologists have also acclaimed this “internal ramp solution” as a creative explanation for this ages-old construction mystery. Most Archaeologists, however, lack the technical training or understanding of the nature of structural forces to make a qualified endorsement of this proposed solution. Let me first state that this “internal ramp solution” represents a complete lack of understanding on how gravity affects structures and why this theory bears no serious thought in the academic world. Before I get into an analysis of why “internal ramps” do not work, let me state very clearly that I honestly do not know exactly how the Great Pyramid was actually built, but I think there are clues that may lead to a reasonable explanation in the future.
Let me first outline some of the facts that we do know about the Great Pyramid of Giza:

• This pyramid appears to be the final evolution of pyramid building that evolved from the mud brick mastabas which were supposedly the resting place of important dignitaries.
  
• The Great Pyramid has only one cartouche above the King’s chamber that purports to indicate that it is the burial chamber of Khufu (Cheops).
  
• This pyramid was covered with smooth white casing stones that partially collapsed after a severe earthquake and were later used as a “quarry” to construct some buildings in Cairo, notably the Mosque and Madrassa of Sultan Hassan (completed in 1359). Some of these stones contained hieroglyphics. The Greek historian Herodotus claims to have seen the Great Pyramid before the casing stones were removed.
  
• If some of the casing stones did contain hieroglyphics and if these stones were scattered around Lower Egypt, finding them and deciphering them could lead to some further understanding as to the construction of the pyramid.
  

http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/McCauleyJ1.php

By people ...why what do you think ?

Brasidas wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
By people ...why what do you think ?

I think we have lost many abilities we once knew in building technology
This can be seen how within a very short time, we have Rolls Royce of pyramids to see them decline rapidly afterwards. I think there is much we are yet to understand in regards to ancient civilizations and think we take too much for granted. I just think there is much more to understand here about what technology was once invented and is now lost

korban dallas wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
By people ...why what do you think ?

I think we have lost many abilities we once knew in building technology
This can be seen how within a very short time, we have Rolls Royce of pyramids to see them decline rapidly afterwards. I think there is much we are yet to understand in regards to ancient civilizations and think we take too much for granted. I just think there is much more to understand here about what technology was once invented and is now lost

As you point out (or the cp did ) the evolution of pyramid building can be traced back to simple mastaba`s
you can follow the construction methods used and how over time they changed to resolve problems they encounterd, people forget they are many pyramids in Egypt not just the main 3  that suddenly appeared one day

far from it they are leaning ones collapsed ones big small non pyramid ones you can even see where they hew the blocks out of the near by quarry to build them
they where not built by slaves or aliens no special instructions from god, horus,seth,Ra ect....or aliens (for the most part)  but highly skilled artisans who lived and farmed in the area


the other thing people forget is the ingenuity,determination and sheer bloody mindlessness  of people people don't give the Egyptians enough credit ....and after all they where built for there gods.

At Saqqara, the oldest complete stone building complex known in history was built: Djoser's step pyramid, built during the Third Dynasty. Another 16 Egyptian kings built pyramids at Saqqara, which are now in various states of preservation or dilapidation

veya_victaous wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
As you point out (or the cp did ) the evolution of pyramid building can be traced back to simple mastaba`s
you can follow the construction methods used and how over time they changed to resolve problems they encounterd, people forget they are many pyramids in Egypt not just the main 3  that suddenly appeared one day

far from it they are leaning ones collapsed ones big small non pyramid ones you can even see where they hew the blocks out of the near by quarry to build them
they where not built by slaves or aliens no special instructions from god, horus,seth,Ra ect....or aliens (for the most part)  but highly skilled artisans who lived and farmed in the area


the other thing people forget is the ingenuity,determination and sheer bloody mindlessness  of people people don't give the Egyptians enough credit ....and after all they where built for there gods.

Yep people assume Giza is the Pyramid capital

At Saqqara, the oldest complete stone building complex known in history was built: Djoser's step pyramid, built during the Third Dynasty. Another 16 Egyptian kings built pyramids at Saqqara, which are now in various states of preservation or dilapidation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqqara

also I think it may have something to do with the fact that the most amazing thing that Europe had produced at the time was Stonehenge and even that is 500 years after the first pyramid...  and they still like to claim one stone on top of another was a technical marvel of the age

darknessss wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
As you point out (or the cp did ) the evolution of pyramid building can be traced back to simple mastaba`s
you can follow the construction methods used and how over time they changed to resolve problems they encounterd, people forget they are many pyramids in Egypt not just the main 3  that suddenly appeared one day

far from it they are leaning ones collapsed ones big small non pyramid ones you can even see where they hew the blocks out of the near by quarry to build them
they where not built by slaves or aliens no special instructions from god, horus,seth,Ra ect....or aliens (for the most part)  but highly skilled artisans who lived and farmed in the area


the other thing people forget is the ingenuity,determination and sheer bloody mindlessness  of people people don't give the Egyptians enough credit ....and after all they where built for there gods.

Yep people assume Giza is the Pyramid capital

At Saqqara, the oldest complete stone building complex known in history was built: Djoser's step pyramid, built during the Third Dynasty. Another 16 Egyptian kings built pyramids at Saqqara, which are now in various states of preservation or dilapidation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqqara

also I think it may have something to do with the fact that the most amazing thing that Europe had produced at the time was Stonehenge and even that is 500 years after the first pyramid...  and they still like to claim one stone on top of another was a technical marvel of the age

it sems a tad unkind to point out that at the same time the greatest achievment in Oz was the stick.........(since as we all know MOST boomerangs of the hunting sort DONT come back......)

veya_victaous wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
As you point out (or the cp did ) the evolution of pyramid building can be traced back to simple mastaba`s
you can follow the construction methods used and how over time they changed to resolve problems they encounterd, people forget they are many pyramids in Egypt not just the main 3  that suddenly appeared one day

far from it they are leaning ones collapsed ones big small non pyramid ones you can even see where they hew the blocks out of the near by quarry to build them
they where not built by slaves or aliens no special instructions from god, horus,seth,Ra ect....or aliens (for the most part)  but highly skilled artisans who lived and farmed in the area


the other thing people forget is the ingenuity,determination and sheer bloody mindlessness  of people people don't give the Egyptians enough credit ....and after all they where built for there gods.

Yep people assume Giza is the Pyramid capital

At Saqqara, the oldest complete stone building complex known in history was built: Djoser's step pyramid, built during the Third Dynasty. Another 16 Egyptian kings built pyramids at Saqqara, which are now in various states of preservation or dilapidation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqqara

also I think it may have something to do with the fact that the most amazing thing that Europe had produced at the time was Stonehenge and even that is 500 years after the first pyramid...  and they still like to claim one stone on top of another was a technical marvel of the age

korban dallas wrote:

Brasidas wrote:



I think we have lost many abilities we once knew in building technology
This can be seen how within a very short time, we have Rolls Royce of pyramids to see them decline rapidly afterwards. I think there is much we are yet to understand in regards to ancient civilizations and think we take too much for granted. I just think there is much more to understand here about what technology was once invented and is now lost

As you point out (or the cp did ) the evolution of pyramid building can be traced back to simple mastaba`s
you can follow the construction methods used and how over time they changed to resolve problems they encounterd, people forget they are many pyramids in Egypt not just the main 3  that suddenly appeared one day

far from it they are leaning ones collapsed ones big small non pyramid ones you can even see where they hew the blocks out of the near by quarry to build them
they where not built by slaves or aliens no special instructions from god, horus,seth,Ra ect....or aliens (for the most part)  but highly skilled artisans who lived and farmed in the area


the other thing people forget is the ingenuity,determination and sheer bloody mindlessness  of people people don't give the Egyptians enough credit ....and after all they where built for there gods.

Brasidas wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
As you point out (or the cp did ) the evolution of pyramid building can be traced back to simple mastaba`s
you can follow the construction methods used and how over time they changed to resolve problems they encounterd, people forget they are many pyramids in Egypt not just the main 3  that suddenly appeared one day

far from it they are leaning ones collapsed ones big small non pyramid ones you can even see where they hew the blocks out of the near by quarry to build them
they where not built by slaves or aliens no special instructions from god, horus,seth,Ra ect....or aliens (for the most part)  but highly skilled artisans who lived and farmed in the area


the other thing people forget is the ingenuity,determination and sheer bloody mindlessness  of people people don't give the Egyptians enough credit ....and after all they where built for there gods.

Yep people assume Giza is the Pyramid capital

At Saqqara, the oldest complete stone building complex known in history was built: Djoser's step pyramid, built during the Third Dynasty. Another 16 Egyptian kings built pyramids at Saqqara, which are now in various states of preservation or dilapidation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqqara

also I think it may have something to do with the fact that the most amazing thing that Europe had produced at the time was Stonehenge and even that is 500 years after the first pyramid...  and they still like to claim one stone on top of another was a technical marvel of the age

Nobody is assuming that, the father of Khufu (the supposed creator if the great pyramid), Sneferu is thought to have built 3 pyramids. The Medium Pyramid, the Red pyramid and the Bent pyramid, which these seem to be the start of and design that led to the Great pyramid itself. This is where pyramid building starts to really excel. The point is though how we see the pyramids really decline to the point many are and have become rubble. Why such a rapid decline in building, where as seen the earliest ones still are a standing testament to brilliant engineering

veya_victaous wrote:

Brasidas wrote:



Nobody is assuming that, the father of Khufu (the supposed creator if the great pyramid), Sneferu is thought to have built 3 pyramids. The Medium Pyramid, the Red pyramid and the Bent pyramid, which these seem to be the start of and design that led to the Great pyramid itself. This is where pyramid building starts to really excel. The point is though how we see the pyramids really decline to the point many are and have become rubble. Why such a rapid decline in building, where as seen the earliest ones still are a standing testament to brilliant engineering

Actually I have heard a theory on that to do with political/fundamentalist change that also caused a drop in some of the medical treatment and metal work ...  it does seem that something did cause them to lose knowledge even before the Hyklos invasion
Of course the Egyptians pretty much always erased negative history when they could so I don't think anyone is really sure...

they other theory (but seems to just be guess) is that the ones at Saqquara, being more isolated, suffered earlier grave robbing and graffiti

some of the graffiti is quite interesting like the spot a Roman solider and a Napoleonic solider both defaced it saying '.... was here'  seems humans have kept some traditions

Brasidas wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
As you point out (or the cp did ) the evolution of pyramid building can be traced back to simple mastaba`s
you can follow the construction methods used and how over time they changed to resolve problems they encounterd, people forget they are many pyramids in Egypt not just the main 3  that suddenly appeared one day

far from it they are leaning ones collapsed ones big small non pyramid ones you can even see where they hew the blocks out of the near by quarry to build them
they where not built by slaves or aliens no special instructions from god, horus,seth,Ra ect....or aliens (for the most part)  but highly skilled artisans who lived and farmed in the area


the other thing people forget is the ingenuity,determination and sheer bloody mindlessness  of people people don't give the Egyptians enough credit ....and after all they where built for there gods.

I am not claiming they were built by aliens, but that we have lost abilities clearly we once had, because as of yet nobody is explaining how they managed to achieve these feats like the Great Pyramid. So I agree with you how little credit people give them how even today we are as perplexed still how they managed to build for example the great pyramid. I mean this is a staggering 2 million stone blocks and how it was aligned just shy of perfect North, South is impressive enough, let alone how they managed to achieve this.
There is no doubt in my mind we have through civilizations lost technological abilities

korban dallas wrote:

Brasidas wrote:


I am not claiming they were built by aliens, but that we have lost abilities clearly we once had, because as of yet nobody is explaining how they managed to achieve these feats like the Great Pyramid. So I agree with you how little credit people give them how even today we are as perplexed still how they managed to build for example the great pyramid. I mean this is a staggering 2 million stone blocks and how it was aligned just shy of perfect North, South is impressive enough, let alone how they managed to achieve this.
There is no doubt in my mind we have through civilizations lost technological abilities

I said

I said "they where not built by slaves or aliens"
I did not claim you said that or even inferred that in the context of the paragraph


if you could be a little less defensive when you read my posts that would be great  
many thanks

Brasidas wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
I said

I said "they where not built by slaves or aliens"
I did not claim you said that or even inferred that in the context of the paragraph


if you could be a little less defensive when you read my posts that would be great  
many thanks

Eh?
Think you will find you have misread mine, as not being  defensive at all as was just clarifying I do not believe they were built by aliens. Try reading the whole post in context please.

Thanks

Just because you can't figure out how ancient civilizations built stuff, doesn't mean they got help from Aliens.

veya_victaous wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
As you point out (or the cp did ) the evolution of pyramid building can be traced back to simple mastaba`s
you can follow the construction methods used and how over time they changed to resolve problems they encounterd, people forget they are many pyramids in Egypt not just the main 3  that suddenly appeared one day

far from it they are leaning ones collapsed ones big small non pyramid ones you can even see where they hew the blocks out of the near by quarry to build them
they where not built by slaves or aliens no special instructions from god, horus,seth,Ra ect....or aliens (for the most part)  but highly skilled artisans who lived and farmed in the area


the other thing people forget is the ingenuity,determination and sheer bloody mindlessness  of people people don't give the Egyptians enough credit ....and after all they where built for there gods.

Yep people assume Giza is the Pyramid capital

At Saqqara, the oldest complete stone building complex known in history was built: Djoser's step pyramid, built during the Third Dynasty. Another 16 Egyptian kings built pyramids at Saqqara, which are now in various states of preservation or dilapidation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqqara

also I think it may have something to do with the fact that the most amazing thing that Europe had produced at the time was Stonehenge and even that is 500 years after the first pyramid...  and they still like to claim one stone on top of another was a technical marvel of the age

At Saqqara, the oldest complete stone building complex known in history was built: Djoser's step pyramid, built during the Third Dynasty.

veya_victaous wrote:Saqqara is the site of the OLDEST pyramids

At Saqqara, the oldest complete stone building complex known in history was built: Djoser's step pyramid, built during the Third Dynasty.

the Giza Pyramids are 4th dynasty


I thought we do know(or at least fairly certain) why there are no hieroglyphs the same reason we know those Pharaohs bodies were destroyed, the Hyksos invaders (who still ruled Egypt for over a century) they almost certainly destroyed them for the political purpose... further evidence of this is the fact that it was after the hyksos that Pharaohs tombs became hidden to prevent them beign desecrated in the future.

korban dallas wrote:

Brasidas wrote:


Eh?
Think you will find you have misread mine, as not being  defensive at all as was just clarifying I do not believe they were built by aliens. Try reading the whole post in context please.

Thanks

My bad, maybe its just the way you write , you said

"I am not claiming they were built by aliens"

i hadn`t suggested that you did, but that how that came across ie That i had inferred you did think the pyramids where "built by aliens"

veya_victaous wrote:Saqqara is the site of the OLDEST pyramids

At Saqqara, the oldest complete stone building complex known in history was built: Djoser's step pyramid, built during the Third Dynasty.

the Giza Pyramids are 4th dynasty


I thought we do know(or at least fairly certain) why there are no hieroglyphs the same reason we know those Pharaohs bodies were destroyed, the Hyksos invaders (who still ruled Egypt for over a century) they almost certainly destroyed them for the political purpose... further evidence of this is the fact that it was after the hyksos that Pharaohs tombs became hidden to prevent them beign desecrated in the future.

Eilzel wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:Saqqara is the site of the OLDEST pyramids


the Giza Pyramids are 4th dynasty


I thought we do know(or at least fairly certain) why there are no hieroglyphs the same reason we know those Pharaohs bodies were destroyed, the Hyksos invaders (who still ruled Egypt for over a century) they almost certainly destroyed them for the political purpose... further evidence of this is the fact that it was after the hyksos that Pharaohs tombs became hidden to prevent them beign desecrated in the future.

Yes Saqqara is the site of the oldest pyramid in Egypt; HOWEVER, there are even more which followed the Giza pyramids. None even remotely as big or as enduring as that which came before. Which is remarkably strange don't you think?

Also, the interior or the Great Pyramid is unmarked with hieroglyphs, not because they were destroyed, but because they never existed. The walls inside are smooth. People at the time did indeed 'erase' records of previous rulers they sought to legitimize, but in much more cruder fashion- hacking and carving away leaving a mess still visible today.

How do you account for 70 odd other pyramids in Egypt which came after Giza, some for which there are records and all of which are smaller and less perfect than the Great Pyramid?

Brasidas wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Yes Saqqara is the site of the oldest pyramid in Egypt; HOWEVER, there are even more which followed the Giza pyramids. None even remotely as big or as enduring as that which came before. Which is remarkably strange don't you think?

Also, the interior or the Great Pyramid is unmarked with hieroglyphs, not because they were destroyed, but because they never existed. The walls inside are smooth. People at the time did indeed 'erase' records of previous rulers they sought to legitimize, but in much more cruder fashion- hacking and carving away leaving a mess still visible today.

How do you account for 70 odd other pyramids in Egypt which came after Giza, some for which there are records and all of which are smaller and less perfect than the Great Pyramid?

Not quite true Eilzel

There is workers heiroglyphs, well claims to be workers above the Kings Chamber.
On the same page with you in regards to how there was such a rapid decline in the rest of the pyramids.
The point to me is nobody has ever provided a sstisfactory explanation how it was built and to to near perfect alignment.

Eilzel wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Not quite true Eilzel

There is workers heiroglyphs, well claims to be workers above the Kings Chamber.
On the same page with you in regards to how there was such a rapid decline in the rest of the pyramids.
The point to me is nobody has ever provided a sstisfactory explanation how it was built and to to near perfect alignment.

Yeah there is some rough hieroglyphs, suggested as 'graffiti'- but none of the massive artistic engraving, the 'official texts' you see in other sites throughout Egypt. Which stands out big time considering the wealth of records we have of the time.

Brasidas wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Yeah there is some rough hieroglyphs, suggested as 'graffiti'- but none of the massive artistic engraving, the 'official texts' you see in other sites throughout Egypt. Which stands out big time considering the wealth of records we have of the time.

Which I agree and to me suggest these pyramids and the Shinx is far older espcially using geological understanding. I fail to see what the fear is if they are older.
It is the same also in regards to Tiahuanaco, which is regarded as being possible 17,000 years old. All the evidence points to a port and because the last know levels of Lake Titicaca would place the date at 17.000 years ago. So this makes archeologists scared to admit it might be older so they claim it is a cermonial port, which to me makes no sense what so ever. To me there is compelling evidence that civilizations are far older and certainly had advanced building technology. To me most of the evidence in no under the water in costal areas flooded after the last ice age.

Eilzel wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Which I agree and to me suggest these pyramids and the Shinx is far older espcially using geological understanding. I fail to see what the fear is if they are older.
It is the same also in regards to Tiahuanaco, which is regarded as being possible 17,000 years old. All the evidence points to a port and because the last know levels of Lake Titicaca would place the date at 17.000 years ago. So this makes archeologists scared to admit it might be older so they claim it is a cermonial port, which to me makes no sense what so ever. To me there is compelling evidence that civilizations are far older and certainly had advanced building technology. To me most of the evidence in no under the water in costal areas flooded after the last ice age.

I'm not familiar with Tiahuanaco didge may have to do some reading on that

But I agree there is a strong possibility the Giza pyramids are older than we are led to believe. Perhaps fear of admitting uncertainty is the problem for some Egyptologists (though heaven knows why...). The idea a greater civilization could have built them, that we don't know anything of, is not so unlikely. Big technological collapses can and have happened. Although slightly different, Britain itself experienced a technological fallback following the collapse of the Roman Empire in the west.

Comparing the Great Pyramid with the Pyramid of the Sun in Teotihuacan

nicko wrote:There is some discussion on the Sphinx having water marks on the lower half of it's body.   Does any one know if same marks are on the Pyramids?

Eilzel wrote:Thanks for those links. Teotihuacan I did know about- although this was as much a mystery for the Aztecs as it is for us today. I will definitely give those a read later though.

Interesting the base sizes are similar. It's probably just a massive (literally) coincidence but certainly an intriguing one nonetheless.

Brasidas wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Thanks for those links. Teotihuacan I did know about- although this was as much a mystery for the Aztecs as it is for us today. I will definitely give those a read later though.

Interesting the base sizes are similar. It's probably just a massive (literally) coincidence but certainly an intriguing one nonetheless.

Guess you are right but odd how similar and continents apart such similarities of buildings occur.
Does make you wonder mate.

korban dallas wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Guess you are right but odd how similar and continents apart such similarities of buildings occur.
Does make you wonder mate.

Not really they are fundamental engineering principles that are literary set in stone and to achieve any success in building huge structures they had to discover them ,and that progress in developing the principles can be seen in how they developed pyramid construction  over time by trial and error

form/shape dictates function  ie a wheel can be only round no other shape works as well

Brasidas wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
Not really they are fundamental engineering principles that are literary set in stone and to achieve any success in building huge structures they had to discover them ,and that progress in developing the principles can be seen in how they developed pyramid construction  over time by trial and error

form/shape dictates function  ie a wheel can be only round no other shape works as well

Nobody has ever been able to fully say for sure ho things have been done Korben, many have certainly tried to explain and have even tried to replicate on a much smaller scale and even there they failed. I am sure the Egyptians built them, what is not clear is to how and if we have lost past technology that had developed.
This is very much unexplained to me. The Diorite  vases for one are a very perplexing mystery

Brasidas wrote:

Eilzel wrote:
Thanks for those links. Teotihuacan I did know about- although this was as much a mystery for the Aztecs as it is for us today. I will definitely give those a read later though.

Interesting the base sizes are similar. It's probably just a massive (literally) coincidence but certainly an intriguing one nonetheless.

Guess you are right but odd how similar and continents apart such similarities of buildings occur.
Does make you wonder mate.

korban dallas wrote:
.................................
As you said "many have certainly tried to explain and have even tried to replicate on a much smaller scale"

However there in lies the problem "scale"

the Egyptian did this on a huge scale thousands of workers within a community no budget, no unions, no bureaucracy no time restraints for the  most part  and a support system of truly impressive proportions and skill

Lone Wolf wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Guess you are right but odd how similar and continents apart such similarities of buildings occur.
Does make you wonder mate.

YOU PEOPLE5 ducked out during your Geometry classes at school, didn't you ! Fess up. now..



ONLY those lacking in basic maths and engineering principles would try to create mysteries where none exist...

 
     

But the process of building pyramids, while complicated, was not as colossal an undertaking as many of us believe, Redford says. Estimates suggest that between 20,000 and 30,000 laborers were needed to build the Great Pyramid at Giza in less than 23 years. By comparison, Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris took almost two hundred years to complete.

According to Redford, pharaohs traditionally began building their pyramids as soon as they took the throne. The pharaoh would first establish an "engineering department" composed of an overseer of all the king's construction work, a chief engineer, and an architect, as well as, in effect, a "department of manpower." The pyramids were usually placed on the western side of the Nile because the pharaoh's soul was meant to join with the sun disc during its descent before continuing with the sun in its eternal round. The two deciding factors when choosing a building site were its orientation to the western horizon where the sun set and the proximity to Memphis, the central city of ancient Egypt.

The cores of the pyramids were often composed of local limestone, says Redford. Finer quality limestone composed the outer layer of the pyramids, giving them a white sheen that could be seen from miles away. The capstone was usually made of granite, basalt, or another very hard stone and could be plated with gold, silver, or electrum (an alloy of gold and silver) and would also be highly reflective in the bright sun.

The image most people have of slaves being forced to build the pyramids against their will is incorrect, Redford says. "The concept of slavery is a very complicated problem in ancient Egypt," he points out, "because the legal aspects of indentured servitude and slavery were very complicated." The peasants who worked on the pyramids were given tax breaks and were taken to 'pyramid cities' where they were given shelter, food and clothing.

According to Redford, ancient Egyptian quarrying methods—the processes for cutting and removing stone—are still being studied. Scholars have found evidence that copper chisels were used for quarrying sandstone and limestone, for example, but harder stones such as granite and diorite would have required stronger materials. Dolerite, a hard, black igneous rock, was used in the quarries of Aswan to remove granite.

Brasidas wrote:1) Do they kn ow how many people it took to build the pyramid?

No.
They can only attempt to estimate based off not really knowing how the pyramid was built.

2) Nobody is disputing the tools used and how limestone or granite was carved. Well some granite which I will come back to  Another mystery. This though does not explain how the pyramid was built.

3) Your link provides nothing to explain how they accomplished building and the methods they used to erect and plan such an enteprise. I mean how do you move into place slabs of granite weighing 60 tons, which would need countless men to pull not only up a ramp but into place. How was this achieved in such limited space and waith a ramp. See also link about the ramp.

4) It offers no explanation how they were able to allign so accurtately to true north with out any digital or electrical equipment.


The sun rises and sets in equal but opposite angles to true north. Using a plumb line, a pole would have been set as vertically as possible. Then, about three hours before noon, its shadow would be measured. This length then becomes the radius of a circle. As the sun rises higher, the shadow shrinks back from the line and then becomes longer in the afternoon. When it reaches the circle again it forms an angle with the morning's line. The bisection of the angle is true north. However, this method would be less accurate than the stellar method, but could be fairly accurate during the solstices
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/pyramidorientation.htm

Also True north is marked in the skies by the north celestial pole. its not rocket science and the Egyptian astronomy begins in prehistoric times


5) It offers no explanation how the builders could understand what design and construction would hold up the Kings chambre from the massive pressure above of stones.

actually that`s wrong
the collapsed pyramid gives lots of information about what happens with the lack of a relief chamber ,and if you have ever seen the inside of the great pyramids relief chamber its no engineering master piece
its purpose was to distribute the above weight through the supporting walls ,a concept developed over time and not a great leap in understanding

6) No we do not know how it was built because it is still being argued to this day how it was done, where people come up with new ideas all the time. All they can do is speculate based off the tools they had for the time and make a best guess.

and that`s all this is speculation based on best evidence

7) Read the full link from an  Architect and Construction Manager who knows far more how to build than your Egyptologist you presented in your article.


We are thus back to my examples of mysteries:


In 2011–2012 AERA began a comprehensive resurvey of the base of the Great Pyramid, the Sphinx, and someof the other great monuments of Giza. We excavated our own archives as well, and with that data AERAassociate Glen Dash attempted to answer some of the fundamental questions that scholars have puzzled over for more than a century: What are the exact dimensions of the base of the Great Pyramid? How well isit oriented to true north?* In this issue, he addresses another question scholars have debated: how did theancient Egyptians manage to orient their pyramids so accurately to true north?

http://www.academia.edu/4035001/How_the_Pyramid_Builders_May_Have_Found_Their_True_North

Eilzel wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Yes Saqqara is the site of the oldest pyramid in Egypt; HOWEVER, there are even more which followed the Giza pyramids. None even remotely as big or as enduring as that which came before. Which is remarkably strange don't you think?

Also, the interior or the Great Pyramid is unmarked with hieroglyphs, not because they were destroyed, but because they never existed. The walls inside are smooth. People at the time did indeed 'erase' records of previous rulers they sought to legitimize, but in much more cruder fashion- hacking and carving away leaving a mess still visible today.

How do you account for 70 odd other pyramids in Egypt which came after Giza, some for which there are records and all of which are smaller and less perfect than the Great Pyramid?

Not quite true Eilzel

There is workers heiroglyphs, well claims to be workers above the Kings Chamber.
On the same page with you in regards to how there was such a rapid decline in the rest of the pyramids.
The point to me is nobody has ever provided a sstisfactory explanation how it was built and to to near perfect alignment.

Yeah there is some rough hieroglyphs, suggested as 'graffiti'- but none of the massive artistic engraving, the 'official texts' you see in other sites throughout Egypt. Which stands out big time considering the wealth of records we have of the time.

veya_victaous wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Yeah there is some rough hieroglyphs, suggested as 'graffiti'- but none of the massive artistic engraving, the 'official texts' you see in other sites throughout Egypt. Which stands out big time considering the wealth of records we have of the time.

Internal paneling in stone that was removed... possibly, it has lost the outer casing and a number of other monuments had materials taken from them

Plus most of other sites are later in different Dynasties... it wouldn't be unheard of for one dynasty to have a particular style.


the alignment to the stars thing ... i think is explained by they didn't have TV plus less pollution (both particle and light).... Consider Captain Cook could find a small island in the middle of the pacific on purpose by the stars... with enough time/people recording star charts it doesn't seem unfeasible.