Does Hamas provoke Israel to attack Gaza?

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:13 am

First topic message reminder :

Palestinians as a diverse society are neither reducible to Hamas nor can they be denied the right to resist occupation.

In much of the North American and western European media reporting on the current Israeli carnage of Palestinians, a common refrain is that Hamas has also shot some rockets towards Israel. Given the sophisticated defence system Israel possesses, courtesy of US taxpayers, none of these rockets hit any targets and fortunately no Israeli man, woman, or child has lost any life or limb because of them. This fact has scarcely bothered BBC, CNN, or any other shamelessly pro-Israeli outlet that always seeks to "balance" their reporting on Gaza by mentioning the fact that Hamas has also shot some rockets towards the Jewish state.

In one particularly nefarious example, Diane Sawyer of ABC showed a picture of Palestinians enduring Israeli bombing but told her American audience these were the pictures of Israelis under attack by Hamas rockets.

Be that as it may, the fact remains that Hamas does shoot some rockets towards Israel, and though these rockets scarcely harm anyone does not diminish their intent, which is to hit somewhere or harm someone. So the Hamas operation intends to harm people but they cannot do as they wish for their military wherewithal is not outsourced to the United States.

Thanks to AIPAC and other Israeli lobbies and pro-Israeli billionaires, among them those who encourage US President Barack Obama to nuke Iran on behalf of Israel, Israel enjoys a special relationship with the most deadly military machinery on the planet and partakes in that deadly force at will. Hamas in this regard has lost the bid to its Israeli counterparts and any outside military help they might receive is from countries like Iran that can hardly be compared to that gargantuan deadly machine called the US.

Erratic rockets

Useless as they are, why is Hamas firing these erratic rockets, and why would they not stop them anyway? Why bother? They are hardly any match for the Israeli army. After all, Hamas is David and Israel is Goliath in this contest. Wouldn't Palestinians be better off without Hamas trying to defend them in Gaza?

Here we need to ask the question in a slightly larger context. Is Hamas not a legitimate Palestinian organisation, with enough grassroots support that it won a major parliamentary election in Gaza back in 2006? I have known, and I still know, many Palestinians who do not like Hamas, disagree with their ideology, and oppose their ways. But these Palestinians of diverse political opinions are as much part of the Palestinian resistance to occupation and theft of their homeland as Hamas is.

Like any other richly diversified society, Palestinians are composed of followers of many religions, politics, and ideologies. Palestinians are Christian, Muslim, atheists, and agnostic. They are nationalist and/or socialists. They are secularists, Islamists, post-Islamists, and post-secularists. They are feminists, modernists, post-modernists, deconstructionists, and they are nativists at times, cosmopolitan at others, unionists, pacifists, militants, you name it. One of them was a founding figure of a school of critical thinking called post-colonial studies.

By far the most consistent and the most definitive aspect of Palestinian resistance to the occupation and theft of their homeland over the decades has been non-violent civil disobedience. Resistance for Palestinians is definitive of who and what they are. They might be a poet like Mahmoud Darwish, a novelist like Ghassan Kanafani, a film-maker like Michel Khleifi, an artist like Mona Hatoum, a feminist like Lila Abu Lughod - but in doing what they do, whatever they do, they oppose and defy the armed robbery of their homeland.

But there are also those Palestinians who have taken arms and opposed villainy by violence. As part of this resistance, Hamas is integral to the Palestinian national liberation movement, but like any other forms of resistance, Hamas is not definitive to Palestine.

Israeli propaganda machinery

What the Israeli propaganda machinery does is to reduce the entirety of Palestine, the rich and diversified tapestry of Palestinian resistance, to Hamas, then demonise Hamas. The strategy works, especially aided and abetted by major state-sponsored or corporate media like BBC, ABC, or CNN. Execute this strategy, and go on a rampage against Palestinians, maim and murder them with impunity.

Now for the sake of argument: Suppose we wake up tomorrow morning and there is no Hamas to shoot off any useless rockets towards Israel. Then what? The magnificent Israeli benevolence will move into operation and return the stolen Palestine to their rightful owners? Of course not. Suppose Hamas did not even exist since its founding in 1987. Then what? Israel would have by now returned Palestine to its rightful owners? Of course not.

Palestinians are varied and Palestinians are entirely entitled to resist and oppose the occupation and theft of their homeland by any means they deem necessary - whether it is by a beautiful song by Muhammad Assaf, a magnificent poem by Mahmoud Darwish, a film by Elia Suleiman, a novel by Ghassan Kanafani, a book on Palestinian costumes by Widad Kawar, or another on Palestinian cuisine by Rawia Bishara or by the militant Marxist organisation PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine), or indeed through the Islamist ideology of Hamas.

One may not agree with Hamas, may not join them, but one cannot reduce the entire tapestry of Palestinian resistance to Hamas, or tell Hamas to disband, for Israelis are about to return Palestine to its rightful owners.

So the bogus proposition that Hamas provokes Israel to attack Gaza is not only narratively false because Israeli military operations in Palestine always predate any Hamas operation, but also because Palestinians in their entirety are neither reducible to Hamas nor can they be denied the right to resist occupation in whatever form they deem necessary. Dividing these forms of resistance into "moderate" and "militant" will also lead nowhere but the pestiferous Washington think tanks.

A film by Annemarie Jacir, an art installation by Emily Jacir, a poem by Rafeef Ziadah or Dana Dajani, or a moving song by Rim Banna is infinitely more radical than any flimsy rocket that Hamas might fire. The Israeli propaganda machinery does not want the world to know these radically defiant forms of Palestinian resistance that have grabbed Zionism by the throat for generations and do not allow it to swallow Palestine. But they magnify Hamas as the face of Palestine.

Military atrocities

In a future free and democratic Palestine, who knows how many votes Hamas would garner in a given election. But we are nowhere near that moment yet - and Israel and its criminal military atrocities are the principle obstacle why we are nowhere near that point. Until then, Palestinians are perfectly entitled to resist the robbery of their homeland by any means they deem necessary, including, but never limited to, Hamas.

Hamas does not provoke Israel to attack Gaza. Palestinians do. The very name of Palestine, the very fact and phenomenon of being a Palestinian, being a witness to the moral bankruptcy of the very idea of Zionism provokes Israel. The mere existence of Palestinians is the denial of Israel and its dominant Zionist ideology. That is the reason that Golda Meir famously said there are no Palestinians, for if there were any Palestinians, she would be a joke. So she had to say there are no Palestinians in order to be an Israeli prime minister.

So anytime you hear an Israeli propagandist mention the word "Hamas", substitute for it "Palestinians" and the replaced signifier is far closer and truer to what they mean. They want to level that land from one end to another, continue to ethnically cleanse it, and call it Israel, and wash, as one young Israeli put it bluntly, Palestinians into the sea.

Zionism as a murderous machinery of colonial conquest will not stop until the very last inch of Palestine is taken - and yet the Palestinians persist in their homeland, resist occupation, procreate, sing, dance, compose music and poetry, make films, stage drama, organise acts of civil disobedience, mobilise for BDS ... and yes, of course, some of them also pick up a few flimsy arms against the most sophisticated armed robbery of a homeland in history.

Hamid Dabashi is Hagop Kevorkian Professor of Iranian Studies and Comparative Literature at Columbia University in New York.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/07/hamas-provoke-israel-attack-201471512246535512.html

That sums it up exactly.

If Hammas disappeared tomorrow Israel would not stop until it had all of Palestine.

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:31 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Didge wrote:

I post on there too.



You are right about Andy's views mind and also his absurd comparison, which is no comparrison

Haha, but you are a regular here

I mean the flap exclusives (except Dean, Dean is sound)

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

by SEXY MAMA Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:32 pm

Didge wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

That is pure speculation on your part..........

I am sorry but it is very true, does Hamas build bomb shelters for the people?
No
They tell people to stay put when Israel warns of an attack, that shows they want people to die to gain sympathy.
Yes there is also much wrong with the Israeli government, but please do not tell me Hamas care for the Palestinian people, when they never have, all they want is conflict and started this because their support has nose dived throughout the Middle East and Palestine itself

Ok what you don't understand is this

Regardless of Hamas being there or not Israel will wipe out the Palestinians and that is a fact you cannot deny Didge

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:33 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Haha, but you are a regular here

I mean the flap exclusives (except Dean, Dean is sound)

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

Andy a polite request, stop spoiling the debate, if you want to debate about foreigners in the uk start a thread and stop screwing up this one.

Thank you

by SEXY MAMA Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:34 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

Why don't you shut the fuck up you Moron.

When adults are debating its best morons like you stay out of it as you lack the basic knowledge

Now now - remember my fantastic memory.

...and the search function

You are on sad fuck trolling me around.

I will never deny my faith comes before anything AND???

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:35 pm

Didge wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

Andy a polite request, stop spoiling the debate, if you want to debate about foreigners in the uk start a thread and stop screwing up this one.

Thank you

Didge - don't be a fool - try to debate, not get silly like you always do.

Everything i've said makes sense.

As for the comment above - what the flip was Eli trying to say eh? I certainly can't work it out.

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:35 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Didge wrote:

I am sorry but it is very true, does Hamas build bomb shelters for the people?
No
They tell people to stay put when Israel warns of an attack, that shows they want people to die to gain sympathy.
Yes there is also much wrong with the Israeli government, but please do not tell me Hamas care for the Palestinian people, when they never have, all they want is conflict and started this because their support has nose dived throughout the Middle East and Palestine itself

Ok what you don't understand is this

Regardless of Hamas being there or not Israel will wipe out the Palestinians and that is a fact you cannot deny Didge

In 60 years why have they never wiped them out, when they have had the capability to do so 1000 times over?
Why do they warn civilians of an imminent attack, by the knocking missile and via telephone?

Why do they treat people from Gaza in their hospitals?

by SEXY MAMA Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:36 pm

Eilzel wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

That is pure speculation on your part..........

Sexy you cannot defend Hamas. They use their people as shields after launching strikes they know will bring devastating counter strikes more powerful than anything they can do. They willingly cause the death of hundreds of Palestinians. They don't care. The just want Israel to suffer. I'd certainly hope most Palestinians do want Hamas out because if they don't they are incremental in their own suffering tbh.

Im not defending Hamas Les im defending the Palestinians RIGHT to have their own land and not be kicked out of their homes.

Did you hear That the Israelis have contaminated their water too to poison them?

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:37 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Didge wrote:

Andy a polite request, stop spoiling the debate, if you want to debate about foreigners in the uk start a thread and stop screwing up this one.

Thank you

Didge - don't be a fool - try to debate, not get silly like you always do.

Everything i've said makes sense.

As for the comment above - what the flip was Eli trying to say eh? I certainly can't work it out.

You never make sense, you just crap on about your dislike of people who are human beings like you but just speak in a different language to you, its boring and again you are spoiling the thread, so again a polite request, jog on!

by Tommy Monk Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:39 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Fair summary les, although I'm sure that if the Palestinians stopped the hostility they would be quickly accepted by the Israelis as friends and neighbours and would benefit greatly both socially and economically.
There have been such moments since the creation of the State of Israel Tommy, and that hasn't happened. The constant building of new settlements is concrete evidence that many in power in Israel do not wish to see an equal Palestinian state.

Agree too, the constant settlement building and expanding of Israel is clearly wrong.

However the Israelis left Gaza in 2005, Sharon withdrew Israeli outposts and uprooted about 10,000 settlers.

And then Hamas quickly took over and Gaza became a launch pad for missiles into Israel.

"...Since the Israeli withdrawal in 2005, Hamas and these other groups have launched thousands of rockets and mortars out of Gaza into Israel. This rocket fire rarely causes casualties, but it makes life miserable for Israelis who live within range. The drumbeat of rocket fire destroys Israeli homes and forces people to scramble and hide when sirens sound. It's lessened recently, but it's one of Israel's most significant grievances with the Hamas leadership...."

"...Hamas is, according to its charter, the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood — an Islamist group that operates around the Muslim world, and one that nominally ran the Egyptian government for about a year recently. Hamas isn't controlled by the Egypt-based brotherhood leadership, but they have close ties. Unlike many Brotherhood branches, though, Hamas also has a militant wing: the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades.
Since Hamas' 1987 founding, it has waged war on Israel, most notably through suicide bombings and rocket attacks. It seeks to replace Israel with a Palestinian state, and has repeatedly refused to recognize Israel (though it has a proposed a long-term truce if Israel agrees to withdraw from the West Bank). Some Hamas leaders have suggested that they would be satisfied with a Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza, but it's not at all clear whether they'd be able or willing to hammer out a deal with Israel in practice — assuming Israel was even willing to sit down with them, which is doubtful.
Hamas and Israel's long history of antagonism — Hamas conducted a significant number of suicide bombings inside Israel during the early 2000s — is a major contributor to the current crisis. Hamas and Israel refuse to negotiate openly and directly, and neither trusts the other even a little bit. As such, even small provocations have the potential to escalate rapidly..."

Although ....

"...There are other militant groups in Gaza, most notably Palestinian Islamic Jihad. These groups are even more radical than Hamas and are wholly committed to violence rather than to politics as the main tactic in their struggle with Israel...."

Also....

"...Before Israel occupied Gaza, it was controlled for some years by Egypt, which borders Gaza on the west. Israel took it from Egypt during the 1967 war between the two countries, and until 2005 it occupied the Gaza Strip..."

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/16/5904691/hamas-israel-gaza-11-things

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:39 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Now now - remember my fantastic memory.

...and the search function

You are on sad fuck trolling me around.

I will never deny my faith comes before anything AND???

Nobody is "trolling you around" - Eli pointed out that Hamas use innocent humans to "get at" Israel.

smelly yesterday pointed out that the Arab hatred of Israel is worth losing their children.

I pointed out that our experience of the one Muslim poster is that yes, the above is true.

You then shouted out "you're a fvcking moron" so i reminded you that what i said is perfectly true. Instead, you could have just said "yes, it is true, my faith comes first BigAndy9".

Nobody is trolling, we're just debating.

by SEXY MAMA Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:45 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

You are on sad fuck trolling me around.

I will never deny my faith comes before anything AND???

Nobody is "trolling you around" - Eli pointed out that Hamas use innocent humans to "get at" Israel.

smelly yesterday pointed out that the Arab hatred of Israel is worth losing their children.

I pointed out that our experience of the one Muslim poster is that yes, the above is true.

You then shouted out "you're a fvcking moron" so i reminded you that what i said is perfectly true. Instead, you could have just said "yes, it is true, my faith comes first BigAndy9".

Nobody is trolling, we're just debating.

You are trolling

Because when have I ever said Palestine is worth my children over?

As I said earlier when adults are debating you Andy should stay out of it

by Eilzel Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:56 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Didge wrote:

Andy a polite request, stop spoiling the debate, if you want to debate about foreigners in the uk start a thread and stop screwing up this one.

Thank you

Didge - don't be a fool - try to debate, not get silly like you always do.

Everything i've said makes sense.

As for the comment above - what the flip was Eli trying to say eh? I certainly can't work it out.

Tell you what, let's go back to the previous page where you attempted to derail this.

"Come here?
Clown!"

What did YOU mean by that?

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:58 pm

Eilzel wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Didge - don't be a fool - try to debate, not get silly like you always do.

Everything i've said makes sense.

As for the comment above - what the flip was Eli trying to say eh? I certainly can't work it out.

Tell you what, let's go back to the previous page where you attempted to derail this.

"Come here?
Clown!"

What did YOU mean by that?

With then following this up by calling you a woman, which I am sure was some poor stereotype homophobic insult.

by Eilzel Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:59 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Sexy you cannot defend Hamas. They use their people as shields after launching strikes they know will bring devastating counter strikes more powerful than anything they can do. They willingly cause the death of hundreds of Palestinians. They don't care. The just want Israel to suffer. I'd certainly hope most Palestinians do want Hamas out because if they don't they are incremental in their own suffering tbh.

Im not defending Hamas Les im defending the Palestinians RIGHT to have their own land and not be kicked out of their homes.

Did you hear That the Israelis have contaminated their water too to poison them?

But what you stated was speculation was regarding the actions of Hamas, there is no need for speculation there, their actions speak volumes.

by Eilzel Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:01 pm

Didge wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Tell you what, let's go back to the previous page where you attempted to derail this.

"Come here?
Clown!"

What did YOU mean by that?

With then following this up by calling you a woman, which I am sure was some poor stereotype homophobic insult.

I'm sure it was, he thinks he's being clever bless his caveman mind. I ignored that though, since it is easily explained as a dumb aside. But I would like to know what his earlier post meant.

by SEXY MAMA Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:01 pm

Eilzel wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

Im not defending Hamas Les im defending the Palestinians RIGHT to have their own land and not be kicked out of their homes.

Did you hear That the Israelis have contaminated their water too to poison them?

But what you stated was speculation was regarding the actions of Hamas, there is no need for speculation there, their actions speak volumes.

Speculation on the part that they don't care at all for their people.............

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:03 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Didge wrote:

With then following this up by calling you a woman, which I am sure was some poor stereotype homophobic insult.

I'm sure it was, he thinks he's being clever bless his caveman mind. I ignored that though, since it is easily explained as a dumb aside. But I would like to know what his earlier post meant.

Which is a very fair request

Sexy you have not answered my questions?

by SEXY MAMA Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:04 pm

Didge wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

I'm sure it was, he thinks he's being clever bless his caveman mind. I ignored that though, since it is easily explained as a dumb aside. But I would like to know what his earlier post meant.

Which is a very fair request

Sexy you have not answered my questions?

Which ones Didge?

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:05 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Didge wrote:

Which is a very fair request

Sexy you have not answered my questions?

Which ones Didge?

In 60 years why have they never wiped them out, when they have had the capability to do so 1000 times over?
Why do they warn civilians of an imminent attack, by the knocking missile and via telephone?

Why do they treat people from Gaza in their hospitals?

by SEXY MAMA Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:07 pm

think Hamas has done both good and bad things. I'm completely against the suicide bombings. However, I am not against the rockets or them standing up for the Palestinian people. So, the Zionists are allowed to use their tanks and missiles and the Palestinians are not allowed to use anything? They work with what they got!

I do think Hamas does care for the Palestinian people but that is hard for some foreigners to understand. Unfortunately, many people think terrorists are simply people who hate freedom and are religious fanatics. When you actually study this and look at it from a different perspective, you'll learn that over 80% of suicide bombers have had family members killed by the Israeli "Defense" Forces. And the first suicide bombing happened at the end of the First Intifada, 6 years of intensively peaceful resistance to Israel's occupation, in which 87 Israelis and 3 minors were killed and 874 Palestinians and 250 minors were killed. That first suicide bombing was after 26 years of continued military occupation in which living conditions became progressively worse. I'm not saying this is justified but it's a bit more understandable when you actually study things and quit relying on the media!

from Rafia living in Palestine.

Source:

"Israel" is illegally occupying Palestine even according to International law.

by SEXY MAMA Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:09 pm

Didge wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

Which ones Didge?

In 60 years why have they never wiped them out, when they have had the capability to do so 1000 times over?
Why do they warn civilians of an imminent attack, by the knocking missile and via telephone?

They warn them seconds before which is too late...........

Why do they treat people from Gaza in their hospitals?

Do they? cause I have read they even blocked the electricity so babies in neo natal can die

They have contaminated the water so they can be poisoned

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:09 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote: think Hamas has done both good and bad things. I'm completely against the suicide bombings. However, I am not against the rockets or them standing up for the Palestinian people. So, the Zionists are allowed to use their tanks and missiles and the Palestinians are not allowed to use anything? They work with what they got!

I do think Hamas does care for the Palestinian people but that is hard for some foreigners to understand. Unfortunately, many people think terrorists are simply people who hate freedom and are religious fanatics. When you actually study this and look at it from a different perspective, you'll learn that over 80% of suicide bombers have had family members killed by the Israeli "Defense" Forces. And the first suicide bombing happened at the end of the First Intifada, 6 years of intensively peaceful resistance to Israel's occupation, in which 87 Israelis and 3 minors were killed and 874 Palestinians and 250 minors were killed. That first suicide bombing was after 26 years of continued military occupation in which living conditions became progressively worse. I'm not saying this is justified but it's a bit more understandable when you actually study things and quit relying on the media!

from Rafia living in Palestine.

Source:

"Israel" is illegally occupying Palestine even according to International law.

Yes that is someone else's views, I wanted to know your view on my questions and I am not deny Israel does things illegally like with settlements, they are wrong:

So again:

In 60 years why have they never wiped them out, when they have had the capability to do so 1000 times over?
Why do they warn civilians of an imminent attack, by the knocking missile and via telephone?

Why do they treat people from Gaza in their hospitals?

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:09 pm

Eilzel wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Didge - don't be a fool - try to debate, not get silly like you always do.

Everything i've said makes sense.

As for the comment above - what the flip was Eli trying to say eh? I certainly can't work it out.

Tell you what, let's go back to the previous page where you attempted to derail this.

"Come here?
Clown!"

What did YOU mean by that?

Sorry Eli - was doing something.

You talked about foreigners coming here - can't remember whether it was before or after i mentioned me listening to English people living in England.

As far as i'm aware, you're not living in England (excuse me if you are now) - hence why i wondered why you're talking about people "coming here".

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:12 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Didge wrote:

In 60 years why have they never wiped them out, when they have had the capability to do so 1000 times over?
Why do they warn civilians of an imminent attack, by the knocking missile and via telephone?

They warn them seconds before which is too late...........

Why do they treat people from Gaza in their hospitals?

Do they? cause I have read they even blocked the electricity so babies in neo natal can die

They have contaminated the water so they can be poisoned

Wrong they warn them in sufficient time, proven by the fact of the number of strikes Israel has made, if they did not the casualty total would be vastly higher, so that is incorrect and there is evidence of where people have been warned and Hamas has told them to stay put and where even where they have gone onto the roof to act as shields, which is all down to Hamas.

Again you are deflecting from the other questions on why of which posted earlier they treat babies from Gaza, would you like the link?

So please answer the other two

Where is the evidence all over the media they have poisoned the water?

by SEXY MAMA Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:14 pm

Didge wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

Do they? cause I have read they even blocked the electricity so babies in neo natal can die

They have contaminated the water so they can be poisoned

Wrong they warn them in sufficient time, if they did not the casualty total would be vastly higher, so that is incorrect and there is evidence of where people have been warned and Hamas has told them to stay put and where even where they have gone onto the roof to act as shields, which is all down to Hamas.

Again you are deflecting from the other questions on why of which posted earlier they treat babies from Gaza, would you like the link?

So please answer the other two

Where is the evidence all over the media they have poisoned the water?

I will get it for you>>>>>>>>

Oh and I haven't deflected I have answered everything you asked

by SEXY MAMA Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:16 pm

ISRAEL-OPT: Military are contaminating water sources - Environment Ministry

TEL AVIV, 22 May 2009 (IRIN) - Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) bases in the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt) and Israel are contaminating land and water sources, says a letter addressed to Maj-Gen Gadi Shamni, commander-in-chief of the central command in Israel.

According to the 12 May letter signed by Issac Ben David, deputy director at the Ministry of the Environment, and seen by IRIN, five bases in the oPt are a major source of contamination due to poor handling of diesel fuel and oil.

The bases in question are Gush Etzion, south of Jerusalem; Ramallah (West Bank); another is near Hebron (West Bank); and two are IDF fuel stations near Macabim and Halamish.

Ben David's letter said: "In a recent inspection conducted by the ministry inspectors of IDF bases in Judea and Samaria [oPt] we discovered a bleak picture of neglect and severe damage to the environment due to leakage of fuel and oil. This severely damages the soil and ground water."

"Our inspectors found that this is not due to lack of infrastructure but to criminal neglect on the part of the persons in charge," it went on.

Ben David ended the letter by saying this was only one example of environmental damage caused by IDF bases, and told Maj-Gen Shamni that he would forward a full report with photographs of the affected areas. He urged Shamni to rectify the situation.

Ben David also reported grave contamination in two other bases in Israel - one in Ovda in the Negev desert, and the other in Julis near the city of Ashkelon.

The IDF spokesperson's unit has responded: "The IDF is aware of the importance of environmental issues and makes efforts to treat the existing hazards."

Representatives of the Ministry of the Environment appeared before the national committee on the water situation in Israel on 21 January and said the IDF was a major contaminator of soil and ground water. They explained that the nature and wide scope of IDF activities constituted a major contamination threat to every aspect of the environment. According to environmentalists, the IDF sewage infrastructure, or lack of it, accounts for 50 percent of untreated sewage in the country.

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:18 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Didge wrote:

Wrong they warn them in sufficient time, if they did not the casualty total would be vastly higher, so that is incorrect and there is evidence of where people have been warned and Hamas has told them to stay put and where even where they have gone onto the roof to act as shields, which is all down to Hamas.

Again you are deflecting from the other questions on why of which posted earlier they treat babies from Gaza, would you like the link?

So please answer the other two

Where is the evidence all over the media they have poisoned the water?

I will get it for you>>>>>>>>

Oh and I haven't deflected I have answered everything you asked

Soory Sexy, but you failed to answer why Israel has not wiped out Palestine when they could have done easily through past conflicts. Why 20% of Arabs live in Israel and why they have not left?

You failed to explain why they are treating babies from Gaza in Israel with for example heart conditions?

Palestinians continue to receive medical care in Israel

Israeli-based humanitarian project Save a Child's Heart brings Palestinian children to Wolfson Medical Center for treatment • A Gazan child's grandmother: We did not face discrimination. I don't care what they will say in Gaza, I saw the reality here.

Meital Yisor Beit-Or

Gazan newborn Abdul Rahman Wahdan received surgery in Israel for a serious heart defect

|
Photo credit: Gideon Markowicz

Does Hamas provoke Israel to attack Gaza? - Page 2 140550469939209899a_b

Does Hamas provoke Israel to attack Gaza? - Page 2 140550469939209899a_b

Even as Gaza Strip-based terrorists continue to fire rockets at Israel, Palestinian children are receiving medical care at the Edith Wolfson Medical Center in the central Israeli city of Holon.

On Tuesday, as on every Tuesday for the past 18 years, children from Gaza and the West Bank arrived at the hospital for routine medical checks as part of the Israeli-based international humanitarian project Save a Child's Heart, which provides life-saving medical care for children born with heart defects.

"In our experience, there has never been a situation where the children did not come here," said Dr. Alona Raucher, a senior cardiologist at the hospital. "We know how to separate outside circumstances from medicine and saving lives."

On Tuesday, newborn Abdul Rahman Wahdan and his grandmother, Maliha Khateb, left Wolfson to return to their home in the northern Gaza Strip town of Beit Hanoun.

Abdul came to the hospital less than a month ago, when he was only 11 days old. He was suffering from a severe heart defect and was operated on in Israel.

"I appreciate and respect the treatment we received here," Khateb said. "We did not face any discrimination. I don't care what they will say in Gaza, I saw the reality here."

http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=18829

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:21 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:ISRAEL-OPT: Military are contaminating water sources - Environment Ministry

TEL AVIV, 22 May 2009 (IRIN) - Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) bases in the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt) and Israel are contaminating land and water sources, says a letter addressed to Maj-Gen Gadi Shamni, commander-in-chief of the central command in Israel.

According to the 12 May letter signed by Issac Ben David, deputy director at the Ministry of the Environment, and seen by IRIN, five bases in the oPt are a major source of contamination due to poor handling of diesel fuel and oil.

The bases in question are Gush Etzion, south of Jerusalem; Ramallah (West Bank); another is near Hebron (West Bank); and two are IDF fuel stations near Macabim and Halamish.

Ben David's letter said: "In a recent inspection conducted by the ministry inspectors of IDF bases in Judea and Samaria [oPt] we discovered a bleak picture of neglect and severe damage to the environment due to leakage of fuel and oil. This severely damages the soil and ground water."

"Our inspectors found that this is not due to lack of infrastructure but to criminal neglect on the part of the persons in charge," it went on.

Ben David ended the letter by saying this was only one example of environmental damage caused by IDF bases, and told Maj-Gen Shamni that he would forward a full report with photographs of the affected areas. He urged Shamni to rectify the situation.

Ben David also reported grave contamination in two other bases in Israel - one in Ovda in the Negev desert, and the other in Julis near the city of Ashkelon.

The IDF spokesperson's unit has responded: "The IDF is aware of the importance of environmental issues and makes efforts to treat the existing hazards."

Representatives of the Ministry of the Environment appeared before the national committee on the water situation in Israel on 21 January and said the IDF was a major contaminator of soil and ground water. They explained that the nature and wide scope of IDF activities constituted a major contamination threat to every aspect of the environment. According to environmentalists, the IDF sewage infrastructure, or lack of it, accounts for 50 percent of untreated sewage in the country.

Sorry but that would be down to individuals or rogue soldiers or just simple neglect, that is not a systematic ploy by Israel back in 2009 to poison all of Gaza.

by Fuzzy Zack Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:22 pm

Sm has given the evidence you wanted, Didge.

And FYI, the way Israel warn Palestinians of an imminent bomb is to drop a smaller bomb on the roof, a full 3 minutes before the big bomb.

by Eilzel Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:22 pm

Geez Andy you're being rather pedantic. No I'm not in England. But for the sake of simplicity I wrote here as in my home country and I do still converse with English people frequently (family, friends).

by SEXY MAMA Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:22 pm

Israel Threatens to Turn Off Gaza´s Electricity

Three rockets have landed this week in or very close to Ashkelon and its sensitive installations - the Rothenberg power plant, an oil pipeline from Eilat, among others. One of them came down yesterday on an IDF base just south of Ashkelon. In general, Palestinian terrorists have fired rockets regularly over the past two weeks from Gaza to other western Negev locations. The total number of Kassams since the withdrawal from Gaza now tops 150; see below.

Defense Minister Sha'ul Mofaz is guiding the Israeli military to find a rocket-stopping solution that does not involve sending ground forces into Gaza. Haaretz newspaper reports that Israel informed the Palestinian Authority earlier this week that it would cut off electricity to Gaza for two hours if Kassam rockets continue to be fired towards Ashkelon. The purpose would be to sway PA public opinion against the terrorist organizations and their rocket attacks at Israel. However, it was realized that patients hospitalized in Gaza would be at risk, since the hospital has no generators. The threat to cut off the electricity will therefore have to wait until the hospital is hooked up to generators.

Israel is also considering other non-military options. Minister Mofaz continues to try diplomacy, and is set to meet with Egypt's Intelligence Chief Gen. Omar Suleimon in Tel Aviv today. He will reportedly ask Suleimon to use his influence with Palestinian Authority leaders to have them crack down on the rocket-firing terrorists. Suleimon is to meet today with PA chief Abu Mazen as well.

Agriculture Minister Yisrael Katz, fresh off his last-place finish in the Likud primaries this week, said this morning that the IDF should bomb several areas in Gaza, "with the purpose of causing Arabs to run away to Sinai."

Yoav Limor, Channel One’s military correspondent, said today that a ground-forces entry into Gaza is not in the cards. "Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is not likely," Limor told Army Radio, "to endanger practically his sole accomplishment of his term - the disengagement from Gaza - while paying a heavy political, international and even economic price... Not to mention his bad experience with [Israel's entry into] Lebanon [in 1982 when Sharon was Defense Minister]..."

Limor said, "There is no real military solution to Kassam rockets. The only time there could have been was on Jan. 30, 2001, when the first mortar shell was fired from Gaza, landing on a house in Netzarim. Israel should have responded then, but now it's too late. Another date on which action could possibly have been taken was three months ago, on Sept 14, 2005, when the first post-disengagement shell was fired from Gaza."

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:23 pm

Eilzel wrote:Geez Andy you're being rather pedantic. No I'm not in England. But for the sake of simplicity I wrote here as in my home country and I do still converse with English people frequently (family, friends).

No problem, mistakes are made.

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:27 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Sm has given the evidence you wanted, Didge.

And FYI, the way Israel warn Palestinians of an imminent bomb is to drop a smaller bomb on the roof, a full 3 minutes before the big bomb.

Which explained why there has been minimum casualties compared to the amount of arsenal fired at Gaza.

No she gave me something without a link which did not show any evidence except that of claim to a letter, which is hearsay!

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:27 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Sm has given the evidence you wanted, Didge.

And FYI, the way Israel warn Palestinians of an imminent bomb is to drop a smaller bomb on the roof, a full 3 minutes before the big bomb.

I wouldn't be surprised if that is for aiming purposes (not matter what people say).

by SEXY MAMA Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:31 pm

Didge wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:Sm has given the evidence you wanted, Didge.

And FYI, the way Israel warn Palestinians of an imminent bomb is to drop a smaller bomb on the roof, a full 3 minutes before the big bomb.

Which explained why there has been minimum casualties compared to the amount of arsenal fired at Gaza.

No she gave me something without a link which did not show any evidence except that of claim to a letter, which is hearsay!

What without a link? its all there for you to read

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:34 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Didge wrote:

Which explained why there has been minimum casualties compared to the amount of arsenal fired at Gaza.

No she gave me something without a link which did not show any evidence except that of claim to a letter, which is hearsay!

What without a link? its all there for you to read

Most people place a link after something they post.
To me the story is very much hearsay
Again you still have not answered all my questions
The fact is Hamas gives no warning for its attacks, Israel does, if it did not care for life, it would not give any warning, they are phoned 5 minute before an attack

by SEXY MAMA Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:36 pm

Didge wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

What without a link? its all there for you to read

Most people place a link after something they post.
To me the story is very much hearsay
Again you still have not answered all my questions
The fact is Hamas gives no warning for its attacks, Israel does, if it did not care for life, it would not give any warning, they are phoned 5 minute before an attack

You mean like the one yesterday when Israel MURDERED the 4 children playing on the beach ????????

Didge are you SERIOUS?

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:40 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Didge wrote:

Most people place a link after something they post.
To me the story is very much hearsay
Again you still have not answered all my questions
The fact is Hamas gives no warning for its attacks, Israel does, if it did not care for life, it would not give any warning, they are phoned 5 minute before an attack

You mean like the one yesterday when Israel MURDERED the 4 children playing on the beach ????????

Didge are you SERIOUS?

That was a mistake as already explained by Israel, which again they apologized over which Hamas glorifies in the dead of any Israeli, so spare me the "serious" crap!

They give warnings which its intent is to minimize casualties, which people have gotten out in time to avoid the attack. Hamas place their military hardware within civilian areas, thus placing civilians at risk and knowingly do so, that is appalling, which proves my point they wish for people to be cannon fodder to gain support

by Fuzzy Zack Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:42 pm

Didge wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:Sm has given the evidence you wanted, Didge.

And FYI, the way Israel warn Palestinians of an imminent bomb is to drop a smaller bomb on the roof, a full 3 minutes before the big bomb.

Which explained why there has been minimum casualties compared to the amount of arsenal fired at Gaza.

No she gave me something without a link which did not show any evidence except that of claim to a letter, which is hearsay!

So few casualties? Are you serious? Out of all the casualties, how many have been Hamas?

And 3 minutes to escape where? Please tell me.

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:42 pm

The Watania agency reported that the home in this case belonged to Samir Nofal, who was able to get out in time along with his family and neighbours.

But others have not been so lucky. According to a Buzzfeed report from last week, the destruction of a home which saw eight members of the same family killed in a single strike was also preceded by a “knock on the roof” warning and a phone-call from the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF).
The military said that the incident had been a “tragic mistake”, because while locals said they saw some family members leaving the home, others appeared to head to the roof to act as “human shields”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-israeli-knock-on-roof-missile-warning-technique-revealed-in-stunning-video-9603179.html

by SEXY MAMA Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:43 pm

Didge wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

You mean like the one yesterday when Israel MURDERED the 4 children playing on the beach ????????

Didge are you SERIOUS?

That was a mistake as already explained by Israel, which again they apologized over which Hamas glorifies in the dead of any Israeli, so spare me the "serious" crap!

They give warnings which its intent is to minimize casualties, which people have gotten out in time to avoid the attack. Hamas place their military hardware within civilian areas, thus placing civilians at risk and knowingly do so, that is appalling, which proves my point they wish for people to be cannon fodder to gain support

Aww so they apologised which makes it ok?

I don't give a shit about Hamas so stop bringing them in every post

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:44 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:

Which explained why there has been minimum casualties compared to the amount of arsenal fired at Gaza.

No she gave me something without a link which did not show any evidence except that of claim to a letter, which is hearsay!

So few casualties? Are you serious? Out of all the casualties, how many have been Hamas?

And 3 minutes to escape where? Please tell me.

Yes I am serious, as the main targets are not even people but military instillation which Hamas places within civilian areas, which they are taking out, maybe you should ask why Hamas places them there and then why it is asking people to stay in their houses even after being warned?

See the link where people go and make themselves shields, the sooner you understand Hamas is going to get more people killed the better for all the Palestinian peoples sake

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:46 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Didge wrote:

That was a mistake as already explained by Israel, which again they apologized over which Hamas glorifies in the dead of any Israeli, so spare me the "serious" crap!

They give warnings which its intent is to minimize casualties, which people have gotten out in time to avoid the attack. Hamas place their military hardware within civilian areas, thus placing civilians at risk and knowingly do so, that is appalling, which proves my point they wish for people to be cannon fodder to gain support

Aww so they apologised which makes it ok?

I don't give a shit about Hamas so stop bringing them in every post

No its a mistake, a tragedy, which sadly happens in wars, again ask yourself why hamas is placing their military hardware in civilian areas and not away from them?
Because they want Palestinians to die, to use their deaths to soak up more hate and support, which most people can see that

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:58 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:ISRAEL-OPT: Military are contaminating water sources - Environment Ministry

TEL AVIV, 22 May 2009 (IRIN) - Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) bases in the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt) and Israel are contaminating land and water sources, says a letter addressed to Maj-Gen Gadi Shamni, commander-in-chief of the central command in Israel.

According to the 12 May letter signed by Issac Ben David, deputy director at the Ministry of the Environment, and seen by IRIN, five bases in the oPt are a major source of contamination due to poor handling of diesel fuel and oil.

The bases in question are Gush Etzion, south of Jerusalem; Ramallah (West Bank); another is near Hebron (West Bank); and two are IDF fuel stations near Macabim and Halamish.

Ben David's letter said: "In a recent inspection conducted by the ministry inspectors of IDF bases in Judea and Samaria [oPt] we discovered a bleak picture of neglect and severe damage to the environment due to leakage of fuel and oil. This severely damages the soil and ground water."

"Our inspectors found that this is not due to lack of infrastructure but to criminal neglect on the part of the persons in charge," it went on.

Ben David ended the letter by saying this was only one example of environmental damage caused by IDF bases, and told Maj-Gen Shamni that he would forward a full report with photographs of the affected areas. He urged Shamni to rectify the situation.

Ben David also reported grave contamination in two other bases in Israel - one in Ovda in the Negev desert, and the other in Julis near the city of Ashkelon.

The IDF spokesperson's unit has responded: "The IDF is aware of the importance of environmental issues and makes efforts to treat the existing hazards."

Representatives of the Ministry of the Environment appeared before the national committee on the water situation in Israel on 21 January and said the IDF was a major contaminator of soil and ground water. They explained that the nature and wide scope of IDF activities constituted a major contamination threat to every aspect of the environment. According to environmentalists, the IDF sewage infrastructure, or lack of it, accounts for 50 percent of untreated sewage in the country.

Gaza has a desperate water shortage and water contamination.

Gaza’s water system collapsing due to IDF strikes, says Red Cross
Delegation head warns of desperate water shortage within days.
By Amira Hass and Ido Efrati | Jul. 16, 2014 | 2:40 AM

Does Hamas provoke Israel to attack Gaza? - Page 2 377357087

Does Hamas provoke Israel to attack Gaza? - Page 2 377357087

Damage from an earlier IDF airstrike in the Gaza Strip. The water and sewage systems are in danger of collapse, the Red Cross warns.

Repeated bombardments are destroying the vulnerable water system in Gaza, and the deaths of a number of local water authority technicians stresses the danger they face as they perform essential maintenance work, according to the International Committee of the Red Cross.

“Hundreds of thousands of people in Gaza are now without water. Within days, the entire population of the Strip may be desperately short of water,” Jacques de Maio, head of the ICRC delegation in Israel and the occupied territories, said in a press release Tuesday.

Both water and electricity supplies have been affected by the current round of hostilities, de Maio said. “If they do not stop, the question is not if but when an already beleaguered population will face an acute water crisis,” he added.

Hospitals, refugee camps, schools and homes are all unable to function without water and electricity, the press release noted. The escalating fighting has also stopped technicians from making essential repairs.

Following the deaths of a number of water technicians, the local water authority halted water supply until the safety of its staff could be assured. As a result, hundreds of thousands more people will soon find they have no water when they turn on their taps, the press release also said.

“Gaza’s water system has been deteriorating for years,” said ICRC water and sanitation expert Guillaume Pierrehumbert. “The latest attacks are the last straw. Safe drinking water is becoming increasingly scarce in the Strip, just as temperatures are soaring. Water is becoming contaminated and sewage is overflowing, bringing a serious risk of disease.

“In recent days, ICRC teams have helped the authorities conduct essential emergency repairs to water and sanitation infrastructure in Gaza, improving the situation for over 90,000 people, but bolder action is urgently required.”

Every repair of the water or electricity network requires coordination between the Red Cross and the Israel Defense Forces so the technicians can go out to make repairs, and sometimes the repairs take days. This was the case in the Shati refugee camp, where one of the two water mains to the camp was hit on the first day of the current round of hostilities, July 8, and was repaired only on Friday July 18.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/.premium-1.605332

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:59 pm

Best Hamas come to their senses and have a cease fire then, which they have since refused twice

by Original Quill Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:02 pm

Eilzel wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:Adding to my Post...
Palestinians Should do what ever the heart tells them (I'm not going to tell them not to fight for their homes )
Hamas needs to consider the burdens of leadership and the good of their people.

The problem there is I honestly don't think Hamas are interested in the well being of 'their people' (as in Palestinians in Gaza). They just want to see Israel burn.

Hi Les:

Absolutely! Yesterday I was asked if I don't see how tyrannical Israel is?? I do see the suffering, and I see that it is at the hands of Israel. But I don't see how Israel is at fault when they are merely responding in kind. Gaza is lobbing some 1,284 missiles across the border now, and Israel has shown the patience of a saint, using their superior technology to take out the missiles and protect their own while forbearing with Gaza. It is definitely now time for Israel to go in, on foot, and spank the children who are doing this, as well as reward the innocent with humanitarian needs.

Obviously, there is a gadfly in the ointment. That is Hamas. Hamas is Iran, let's not kid ourselves. Iran does not care about the suffering of the Palestinian children. Iran is using them to create this tortious situation. Iran's hand is Hamas...Hamas has to go, and then reset Gaza up in the humanitarian way we all know Israel is capable of. Hamas is the disjoint here. Remove Hamas...and you care for the Palestinians while stopping the missiles.

Eilzel wrote:Sass is probably right however regardless; with or without Hamas, Israel will abuse the Palestinian people and continue stealing their land, Hamas just gives them a handy excuse to be as brutal as their like in 'retaliation'.

That is speculation, born of wartime thinking. Israel gave the Palestinians their land in Gaza. Yes, it has been squandered in a massive miscalculation...the election of Hamas. It's time to correct that miscalculation.

Eilzel wrote:These two problems, which basically boil down to Abrahamic religious idiocy and 'divine right', are why there is never going to be a permanent solution to this problem that doesn't involve one side completely ceding everything to the other.

When Israel faces down Iran, all will be well. I give odds to Israel, 5-2. In any event, the showdown is inevitable.

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:04 pm

What difference do you that that would make? Do you think they would stop stealing and building on Palestine land? Do you thing they would stop the embargo and allow them a fair share of the water. Do you think they would stop shooting farmers in their fields? Do you think they would stop bulldozing Palestinian homes and all the millions of other things they do.

No, what would happen is they would take over Palestine in it's entirety.

Perhaps you think we should have let the Germans do what they wanted in WWII and come and invade us so we didn't get bombed?

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:08 pm

Bollocks are they responding in kind. What Palestine tanks are invading Israel? What ships are off Israeli beaches firing shells. 3 boys were kidnapped and killed, terrible. Israel then used that to justify collective punishment which is against International Law, and it still have not been proved that it was not a set up by Israel, as it was asked by the head of Mossad a week before the event, what would happen if three teenagers were kidnapped. It was a set up to allow Isreal to murder with impunity and Gaza is fighting back, and they have that right.

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:09 pm

Sassy wrote:What difference do you that that would make? Do you think they would stop stealing and building on Palestine land? Do you thing they would stop the embargo and allow them a fair share of the water. Do you think they would stop shooting farmers in their fields? Do you think they would stop bulldozing Palestinian homes and all the millions of other things they do.

No, what would happen is they would take over Palestine in it's entirety.

Perhaps you think we should have let the Germans do what they wanted in WWII and come and invade us so we didn't get bombed?

Same old arguments of blame again, where many already state there is wrongs by Israel, what is of more pressing concern is the people of Palestine under Hamas, who are used as cannon fodder by Hamas, to further their own failing support, it shows they do not care, this is evident how they place military instillation within civilian areas and ask people not to leave when warned by Israel. You start by removing one problem that is stopping any chance of peace and that is Hamas for the sake of both the Palestinian and Israeli people. With Gaza backed joined to the West Bank under a better leadership, they have a much better chance of bringing about change, which will not happen whilst the extremist group of Hamas stays in power and if they are removed Israel has no option but to go to the negotiating table, as the threat has been removed. They should be removed by the people of Gaza also.
Actually Hamas is like Nazi Germany always attacking and starting conflicts

by Guest Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:11 pm

Sassy wrote:Bollocks are they responding in kind. What Palestine tanks are invading Israel? What ships are off Israeli beaches firing shells. 3 boys were kidnapped and killed, terrible. Israel then used that to justify collective punishment which is against International Law, and it still have not been proved that it was not a set up by Israel, as it was asked by the head of Mossad a week before the event, what would happen if three teenagers were kidnapped. It was a set up to allow Isreal to murder with impunity and Gaza is fighting back, and they have that right.

Firing rockets at civilians is a crime against humanity, Israel at least warns where it is going to attack, Hamas does not!!

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