Does Hamas provoke Israel to attack Gaza?

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Palestinians as a diverse society are neither reducible to Hamas nor can they be denied the right to resist occupation.

In much of the North American and western European media reporting on the current Israeli carnage of Palestinians, a common refrain is that Hamas has also shot some rockets towards Israel. Given the sophisticated defence system Israel possesses, courtesy of US taxpayers, none of these rockets hit any targets and fortunately no Israeli man, woman, or child has lost any life or limb because of them. This fact has scarcely bothered BBC, CNN, or any other shamelessly pro-Israeli outlet that always seeks to "balance" their reporting on Gaza by mentioning the fact that Hamas has also shot some rockets towards the Jewish state.

In one particularly nefarious example, Diane Sawyer of ABC showed a picture of Palestinians enduring Israeli bombing but told her American audience these were the pictures of Israelis under attack by Hamas rockets.

Be that as it may, the fact remains that Hamas does shoot some rockets towards Israel, and though these rockets scarcely harm anyone does not diminish their intent, which is to hit somewhere or harm someone. So the Hamas operation intends to harm people but they cannot do as they wish for their military wherewithal is not outsourced to the United States.

Thanks to AIPAC and other Israeli lobbies and pro-Israeli billionaires, among them those who encourage US President Barack Obama to nuke Iran on behalf of Israel, Israel enjoys a special relationship with the most deadly military machinery on the planet and partakes in that deadly force at will. Hamas in this regard has lost the bid to its Israeli counterparts and any outside military help they might receive is from countries like Iran that can hardly be compared to that gargantuan deadly machine called the US.

Erratic rockets

Useless as they are, why is Hamas firing these erratic rockets, and why would they not stop them anyway? Why bother? They are hardly any match for the Israeli army. After all, Hamas is David and Israel is Goliath in this contest. Wouldn't Palestinians be better off without Hamas trying to defend them in Gaza?

Here we need to ask the question in a slightly larger context. Is Hamas not a legitimate Palestinian organisation, with enough grassroots support that it won a major parliamentary election in Gaza back in 2006? I have known, and I still know, many Palestinians who do not like Hamas, disagree with their ideology, and oppose their ways. But these Palestinians of diverse political opinions are as much part of the Palestinian resistance to occupation and theft of their homeland as Hamas is.

Like any other richly diversified society, Palestinians are composed of followers of many religions, politics, and ideologies. Palestinians are Christian, Muslim, atheists, and agnostic. They are nationalist and/or socialists. They are secularists, Islamists, post-Islamists, and post-secularists. They are feminists, modernists, post-modernists, deconstructionists, and they are nativists at times, cosmopolitan at others, unionists, pacifists, militants, you name it. One of them was a founding figure of a school of critical thinking called post-colonial studies.

By far the most consistent and the most definitive aspect of Palestinian resistance to the occupation and theft of their homeland over the decades has been non-violent civil disobedience. Resistance for Palestinians is definitive of who and what they are. They might be a poet like Mahmoud Darwish, a novelist like Ghassan Kanafani, a film-maker like Michel Khleifi, an artist like Mona Hatoum, a feminist like Lila Abu Lughod - but in doing what they do, whatever they do, they oppose and defy the armed robbery of their homeland.

But there are also those Palestinians who have taken arms and opposed villainy by violence. As part of this resistance, Hamas is integral to the Palestinian national liberation movement, but like any other forms of resistance, Hamas is not definitive to Palestine.

Israeli propaganda machinery

What the Israeli propaganda machinery does is to reduce the entirety of Palestine, the rich and diversified tapestry of Palestinian resistance, to Hamas, then demonise Hamas. The strategy works, especially aided and abetted by major state-sponsored or corporate media like BBC, ABC, or CNN. Execute this strategy, and go on a rampage against Palestinians, maim and murder them with impunity.

Now for the sake of argument: Suppose we wake up tomorrow morning and there is no Hamas to shoot off any useless rockets towards Israel. Then what? The magnificent Israeli benevolence will move into operation and return the stolen Palestine to their rightful owners? Of course not. Suppose Hamas did not even exist since its founding in 1987. Then what? Israel would have by now returned Palestine to its rightful owners? Of course not.

Palestinians are varied and Palestinians are entirely entitled to resist and oppose the occupation and theft of their homeland by any means they deem necessary - whether it is by a beautiful song by Muhammad Assaf, a magnificent poem by Mahmoud Darwish, a film by Elia Suleiman, a novel by Ghassan Kanafani, a book on Palestinian costumes by Widad Kawar, or another on Palestinian cuisine by Rawia Bishara or by the militant Marxist organisation PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine), or indeed through the Islamist ideology of Hamas.

One may not agree with Hamas, may not join them, but one cannot reduce the entire tapestry of Palestinian resistance to Hamas, or tell Hamas to disband, for Israelis are about to return Palestine to its rightful owners.

So the bogus proposition that Hamas provokes Israel to attack Gaza is not only narratively false because Israeli military operations in Palestine always predate any Hamas operation, but also because Palestinians in their entirety are neither reducible to Hamas nor can they be denied the right to resist occupation in whatever form they deem necessary. Dividing these forms of resistance into "moderate" and "militant" will also lead nowhere but the pestiferous Washington think tanks.

A film by Annemarie Jacir, an art installation by Emily Jacir, a poem by Rafeef Ziadah or Dana Dajani, or a moving song by Rim Banna is infinitely more radical than any flimsy rocket that Hamas might fire. The Israeli propaganda machinery does not want the world to know these radically defiant forms of Palestinian resistance that have grabbed Zionism by the throat for generations and do not allow it to swallow Palestine. But they magnify Hamas as the face of Palestine.

Military atrocities

In a future free and democratic Palestine, who knows how many votes Hamas would garner in a given election. But we are nowhere near that moment yet - and Israel and its criminal military atrocities are the principle obstacle why we are nowhere near that point. Until then, Palestinians are perfectly entitled to resist the robbery of their homeland by any means they deem necessary, including, but never limited to, Hamas.

Hamas does not provoke Israel to attack Gaza. Palestinians do. The very name of Palestine, the very fact and phenomenon of being a Palestinian, being a witness to the moral bankruptcy of the very idea of Zionism provokes Israel. The mere existence of Palestinians is the denial of Israel and its dominant Zionist ideology. That is the reason that Golda Meir famously said there are no Palestinians, for if there were any Palestinians, she would be a joke. So she had to say there are no Palestinians in order to be an Israeli prime minister.

So anytime you hear an Israeli propagandist mention the word "Hamas", substitute for it "Palestinians" and the replaced signifier is far closer and truer to what they mean. They want to level that land from one end to another, continue to ethnically cleanse it, and call it Israel, and wash, as one young Israeli put it bluntly, Palestinians into the sea.

Zionism as a murderous machinery of colonial conquest will not stop until the very last inch of Palestine is taken - and yet the Palestinians persist in their homeland, resist occupation, procreate, sing, dance, compose music and poetry, make films, stage drama, organise acts of civil disobedience, mobilise for BDS ... and yes, of course, some of them also pick up a few flimsy arms against the most sophisticated armed robbery of a homeland in history.

Hamid Dabashi is Hagop Kevorkian Professor of Iranian Studies and Comparative Literature at Columbia University in New York.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/07/hamas-provoke-israel-attack-201471512246535512.html

That sums it up exactly.

If Hammas disappeared tomorrow Israel would not stop until it had all of Palestine.

Tripe, complete and utter tripe. We would not let ourselves be walked over, why the hell should anyone else, especially when their country has been turned into a prison.

Didge wrote:

Sassy wrote:Bollocks are they responding in kind.  What Palestine tanks are invading Israel?   What ships are off Israeli beaches firing shells.   3 boys were kidnapped and killed, terrible.   Israel then used that to justify collective punishment which is against International Law, and it still have not been proved that it was not a set up by Israel, as it was asked by the head of Mossad a week before the event, what would happen if three teenagers were kidnapped.   It was a set up to allow Isreal to murder with impunity and Gaza is fighting back, and they have that right.

Firing rockets at civilians is a crime against humanity, Israel at least warns where it is going to attack, Hamas does not!!

Really, then what about shelling boys playing football on a beach, and reshelling the ones that they missed and were running away?

Sassy wrote:What difference do you that that would make?   Do you think they would stop stealing and building on Palestine land?   Do you thing they would stop the embargo and allow them a fair share of the water.   Do you think they would stop shooting farmers in their fields?   Do you think they would stop bulldozing Palestinian homes and all the millions of other things they do.

No, what would happen is they would take over Palestine in it's entirety.

Perhaps you think we should have let the Germans do what they wanted in WWII and come and invade us so we didn't get bombed?

1,284 missiles? Do you think someone lobbed 1,284 missiles into Germany before WWII? Only if you do, can you make Germany the victim...akin to Palestinian Gaza. Hamas is the fly in the ointment. Hamas is the abuser of peace.

Hamas is doing nothing whatsoever to protect the Palestinians. What do you think? That these missiles are defensive weapons? Is that what you think? They are provocative, offensive weapons and they only serve Iran. And believe me, Iran cares nothing about the suffering of Palestinian children.

Sassy wrote:Tripe, complete and utter tripe.   We would not let ourselves be walked over, why the hell should anyone else, especially when their country has been turned into a prison.

We?

Its not tripe but the reality the people of Palestine face, Israel is not going to negotiate with terrorists and why should they, the people of Palestine stand a much better chance without Hamas and even they know this as Hamas support has fallen, which is why Hamas started this conflict, to garner support by the deaths of civilians, which they have ensured has happened by placing military weaponry within civilian areas.
I think you will find it was Germany that attacked Poland first, which shows comparisons to Palestine starting again the conflict here again

Sassy wrote:

Didge wrote:



Firing rockets at civilians is a crime against humanity, Israel at least warns where it is going to attack, Hamas does not!!

Really, then what about shelling boys playing football on a beach, and reshelling the ones that they missed and were running away?

That is a crime against humanity, as no warning was given, where a warning is given, Israel is complying with international laws.
Again you use examples of where mistakes have happened, what you fail to address each time is why Hamas tells people not to leave, when advised by Israel and why they place their weaponry within civilian areas.
Even the Hamas official I posted agrees that firing rockets into Israel is a crime against humanity

New heard such rubbish, perhaps we should never have bombed Germany then.

Original Quill wrote:

Sassy wrote:What difference do you that that would make?   Do you think they would stop stealing and building on Palestine land?   Do you thing they would stop the embargo and allow them a fair share of the water.   Do you think they would stop shooting farmers in their fields?   Do you think they would stop bulldozing Palestinian homes and all the millions of other things they do.

No, what would happen is they would take over Palestine in it's entirety.

Perhaps you think we should have let the Germans do what they wanted in WWII and come and invade us so we didn't get bombed?

1,284 missiles?  Do you think someone lobbed 1,284 missiles into Germany before WWII?  Only if you do, can you make Germany the victim...akin to Palestinian Gaza.  Hamas is the fly in the ointment.  Hamas is the abuser of peace.

Hamas is doing nothing whatsoever to protect the Palestinians.  What do you think?  That these missiles are defensive weapons?  Is that what you think?  They are provocative, offensive weapons and they only serve Iran.  And believe me, Iran cares nothing about the suffering of Palestinian children.

Exactly, I mean how many bomb shelters have Hamas built for the people of Gaza?

Not exactly caring about the people is it?

Sassy wrote:New heard such rubbish, perhaps we should never have bombed Germany then.

Actually the bombing campaign by Britain was seen as wrong and achieved very little where it was targeted against civilians, the only military gain was made by drawing on most of the Luftwaffe away from combat areas so they could defend Germany. The bombing campaign ended up hardening the resolve of the Germans, just as it did with the British during the Battle of Britain!
Israel are going after military targets, which again the point you miss, Hamas place within civilian areas, knowing full well this will create civilian deaths, which is why they want people to die for PR

The bombing campaign was seen as wrong was it.   Thankfully idiots like you are few and far between and the War Memorial of Bomber Command has been built.

Thank you for dishonouring the men of Bomber Command who died in their hundreds of thousands to save the likes of you.   You are a disgrace.

Hardening resolve?   Well Israel is certainly doing that in Gaza.

Israel gave up Gaza in 2005, uprooted over 10,000 settlers and service personnel only for it to quickly become a launch pad for more missiles.
Who are Hamas/Palestinians targeting with these thousands of missiles Sassy?
Innocent Israeli civilians, women and children.

Sassy wrote:The bombing campaign was seen as wrong was it.   Thankfully idiots like you are few and far between and the War Memorial of Bomber Command has been built.

Hardening resolve?   Well Israel is certainly doing that in Gaza.

Really, you know very little, again I am talking about the targeted campaign on civilians, like Dresden, not military and industries, they have been condemned the civilians targeted and were of little military strategic gain, where as explained, all thy did was kill many people and I see you resort to insults when you are being educated on things you know nothing about. You see Hamas are firing at civilians, where as Israel is going after military targets, which Hamas has placed in civilian areas.

Where there were casualties because of industrial all military attacks, it was taken that sadly some loss of civilian life would happen, but Bomber Harris has been greatly criticized for his campaign against cities where for example like Dresden, hundreds of thousands died.

Yea Didge, I know so very little. My Dad was in Bomber Command flying Lancs, I know exactly what happened from first hand, not books. So DON'T TELL ME YOU KNOW MORE THAN ME ON THIS AND DON'T BELITTLE WHAT THOSE MEN DID, BECAUSE MOST OF THEM DIDN'T COME HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOW FUCK OFF.

Sassy wrote:Yea Didge, I know so very little.   My Dad was in Bomber Command flying Lancs, I know exactly what happened from first hand, not books.   So DON'T TELL ME YOU KNOW MORE THAN ME ON THIS AND DON'T BELITTLE WHAT THOSE MEN DID, BECAUSE MOST OF THEM DIDN'T COME HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOW FUCK OFF.

yes you know very little and clearly as seen you do not, i am not dishing the men that flew, they even those who flew against Dresden thought it was unnecessary, some of us actually study history an many thought it was wrong, and this was much later int he war where up until then it had been mainly military or industrial targets, which there is a difference or do you not know the difference?  They also needlessly placed airmen s lives at risk to targets which were unnecessary or do you not even know how many airmen lost their lives. This was a poor tactical decision and it gained very little accept for the drawing away of the Luftwaffe from front line combat zones.
I am not belittling anyone, in fact I am showing the futility of civilian attacks that cost airmen lives, which again many begrudged having to target  

So yes you know naff all

Sassy wrote:Yea Didge, I know so very little.   My Dad was in Bomber Command flying Lancs, I know exactly what happened from first hand, not books.   So DON'T TELL ME YOU KNOW MORE THAN ME ON THIS AND DON'T BELITTLE WHAT THOSE MEN DID, BECAUSE MOST OF THEM DIDN'T COME HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOW FUCK OFF.

Really? Is this where it goes personal?

So we can never get to Hamas and Iran, the missiles, the invasion, the Palestinian children. All because we have to take a left turn and get into a personal argument?

Original Quill wrote:

Sassy wrote:Yea Didge, I know so very little.   My Dad was in Bomber Command flying Lancs, I know exactly what happened from first hand, not books.   So DON'T TELL ME YOU KNOW MORE THAN ME ON THIS AND DON'T BELITTLE WHAT THOSE MEN DID, BECAUSE MOST OF THEM DIDN'T COME HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOW FUCK OFF.

Really?  Is this where it goes personal?

So we can never get to Hamas and Iran, the missiles, the invasion, the Palestinian children.  All because we have to take a left turn and get into a personal argument?

Stirring and goading again? You wouldn't do that would you?

Sassy wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Really?  Is this where it goes personal?

So we can never get to Hamas and Iran, the missiles, the invasion, the Palestinian children.  All because we have to take a left turn and get into a personal argument?

Stirring and goading again?   You wouldn't do that would you?

You are the one being nasty, because I am giving you a critical view of the bombing of civilian targets later on in the war that gave a moral boost, where strategically they did little, to the point even Churchill called them off, through fear there would be nothing left of Germany when the war ended.

Why the fuck when you discuss history people take it you are insulting the brave men that thought and just followed commands?

I put blame onto Bomber Harris for his poor civilian targeted campaign, not the men that flew the missions and who's lives were needlessly placed in danger, so get a grip and grow up!

:-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: 

Once again Didge knows everything and the people that were actually there know nothing. Your ego fills the universe and your chattering means absolutely zilch. Back on ignore talk rubbish to your hearts content, although that means you will bleat on for eternity.

Sassy wrote::-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: 

Once again Didge knows everything and the people that were actually there know nothing.   Your ego fills the universe and your chattering means absolutely zilch.   Back on ignore talk rubbish to your hearts content, although that means you will bleat on for eternity.  

Thank goodness for that, Stassi runs away again, it seems you cannot debate and resort to insults, so I shall continue to call you correctly Stassi! You run away and use this get of jail car every time you are faced with counters you cannot counter back

Grow up, it is now utterly pathetic

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

So few casualties? Are you serious? Out of all the casualties, how many have been Hamas?

And 3 minutes to escape where? Please tell me.

Yes I am serious, as the main targets are not even people but military instillation which Hamas places within civilian areas, which they are taking out, maybe you should ask why Hamas places them there and then why it is asking people to stay in their houses even after being warned?

See the link where people go and make themselves shields, the sooner you understand Hamas is going to get more people killed the better for all the Palestinian peoples sake

I asked you if you knew out of the Palestinians killed in the current conflict, how many were Hamas?

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:



Yes I am serious, as the main targets are not even people but military instillation which Hamas places within civilian areas, which they are taking out, maybe you should ask why Hamas places them there and then why it is asking people to stay in their houses even after being warned?

See the link where people go and make themselves shields, the sooner you understand Hamas is going to get more people killed the better for all the Palestinian peoples sake

I asked you if you knew out of the Palestinians killed in the current conflict, how many were Hamas?

We only have been given estimates, which conflict from each side, so that answers your question, because nobody really knows, now how about you answer mine.
Again most of the targets are not even Hamas, but taking out facilities that Hamas uses, so your question is rather moot, when again this is followed on by my questions, which is why some civilians sadly are dying 
So again why are Hamas placing military hardware in civilian areas?
Why are they telling people not to evacuate?
Why are they advising some to be human shields?
Why have they built no bomb shelters?

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

I asked you if you knew out of the Palestinians killed in the current conflict, how many were Hamas?

We only have been given estimates, which conflict from each side, so that answers your question, because nobody really knows, now how about you answer mine.
Again most of the targets are not even Hamas, but taking out facilities that Hamas uses, so your question is rather moot, when again this is followed on by my questions, which is why some civilians sadly are dying 
So again why are Hamas placing military hardware in civilian areas?
Why are they telling people not to evacuate?
Why are they advising some to be human shields?
Why have they built no bomb shelters?

I think it is rather obvious the game that is being played.  Iran is reaching for the sympathy vote by touting the victim count, while in fact causing the carnage through the provocation of missile strikes.  Iran thinks its own hand (Hamas) is invisible.  People world-wide are not falling for it.  Mainly because they are not that stupid.

The most humanitarian thing that can be done is an Israeli invasion, taking Hamas out, and restoring Gaza to a peaceful, civilized existence.

Why don't you stop talking absolute tripe and go and talk to the gentleman who wrote the piece:

Hamid Dabashi is Hagop Kevorkian Professor of Iranian Studies and Comparative Literature at Columbia University in New York.

I'll sure he'll be glad to inform you what a pathetic post that was.

Sassy wrote:Why don't you stop talking absolute tripe and go and talk to the gentleman who wrote the piece:

Hamid Dabashi is Hagop Kevorkian Professor of Iranian Studies and Comparative Literature at Columbia University in New York.

I'll sure he'll be glad to inform you what a pathetic post that was.

What did he write? You don't cite anything.

Perhaps you can help us by paraphrasing his thesis, or extrapolating relevant excerpts. Not just the usual C&P. Let's discuss it.

Original Quill wrote:

Sassy wrote:Why don't you stop talking absolute tripe and go and talk to the gentleman who wrote the piece:

Hamid Dabashi is Hagop Kevorkian Professor of Iranian Studies and Comparative Literature at Columbia University in New York.

I'll sure he'll be glad to inform you what a pathetic post that was.

What did he write?  You don't cite anything.

Perhaps you can help us by paraphrasing his thesis, or extrapolating relevant excerpts.  Not just the usual C&P.  Let's discuss it.

Just read the OP, that's his view, unlike you he doesn't waffle on, he gets to the point.

Sassy wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

What did he write?  You don't cite anything.

Perhaps you can help us by paraphrasing his thesis, or extrapolating relevant excerpts.  Not just the usual C&P.  Let's discuss it.

Just read the OP, that's his view, unlike you he doesn't waffle on, he gets to the point.

Oh...has he asked you not to discuss it yourself?

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

I asked you if you knew out of the Palestinians killed in the current conflict, how many were Hamas?

We only have been given estimates, which conflict from each side, so that answers your question, because nobody really knows, now how about you answer mine.
Again most of the targets are not even Hamas, but taking out facilities that Hamas uses, so your question is rather moot, when again this is followed on by my questions, which is why some civilians sadly are dying 
So again why are Hamas placing military hardware in civilian areas?
Why are they telling people not to evacuate?
Why are they advising some to be human shields?
Why have they built no bomb shelters?

Yet mire excuses and failure to answer the question.

I'll give you one more chance: what are the estimated numbers?

No point in discussing with you Quill, you know absolutely nothing about what is happening and have shown it so many times I've written you off on the subject.

Sassy wrote:No point in discussing with you Quill, you know absolutely nothing about what is happening and have shown it so many times I've written you off on the subject.

The foreigners have read about it Sassy.

And they're "intellectools".

BigAndy9 wrote:

Sassy wrote:No point in discussing with you Quill, you know absolutely nothing about what is happening and have shown it so many times I've written you off on the subject.

The foreigners have read about it Sassy.

And they're "intellectools".

Nope, they're just tools!

Sassy, there is right and wrong on both sides but you seem to hold the view that only Israel are at fault and Palestinians are completely innocent victims when they are firing missiles across at Israeli civilians every day.
What do you propose as a solution...???
Israel wants peace and is always first to the table trying to arrange ceasefire while Palestine just continue with their missiles.

The Israeli does not want peace, it wants Palestine.   You are very easily manipulated. The sad thing is that so many Jewish people recognise it, how the Israeli Government has been taken over by the settlers etc, who want the rest of Palestine. Isreali peace groups are ashamed of what the government is doing in their name, they hate it.

“Jews against Genocide” Protest Gaza Attack at Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum. Light Children’s Dolls on Fire

Saturday, 12th July, a group called Jews Against Genocide (JAG) held a memorial service for Palestinian children killed by Israel in its current attack on Gaza. JAG set aflame to a pile of dolls covered in red paint at Yad Vashem, Israel’s holocaust memorial museum. Jews Against Genocide (JAG) is a movement of Jews from all over the world, including Israelis, who are protesting against Israel’s intent to commit genocide against the non-Jewish indigenous people of Palestine.

The Yad Vashem security guard attempted to disrupt the memorial, confiscated JAG’s fire extinguisher, and called the Israeli police to arrest the participants.

We, Jews Against Genocide, came to Yad Vashem, Israel’s memorial of the genocide committed against Jews, to honor the Palestinian children who are dying in a genocide committed by Jews.

We brought dolls to symbolise the children of Gaza, and tried to bring a glimpse of the horror that Gazan’s face, to Israel’s doorstep. We hope to show Israel, and the world, the absurd reality of using the memory of one genocide to justify another.

We invite compassionate people from across the globe to join the outcry by staging similar protests in front of Israeli embassies and consulates around the world on Tuesday 15th and Wednesday 16th July, 2014.

Just as we honor the people who were murdered seven decades ago in Europe because they were Jews, we are here to honor the people who are being murdered at this very moment because they are the indigenous people of this land who are not Jews.

The UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide defines Genocide as,

“any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; [...]“

The children of Gaza, who are being systematically murdered as we write this article, constitute 52% percent of the population under siege in the strip. The vast majority of these children are descendants of refugees from historical Palestine.

In the current round of atrocities committed by the Israel occupation army, so far dozens of children have been murdered in their homes, with Israel’s war-making leadership vowing “much higher costs” on the Palestinian side as the bombing and shelling continues.

The war crimes and crimes against humanity committed in Gaza today are the latest stage of an ongoing campaign of ethnic cleansing and genocide against the indigenous people of this land.

The Jewish State was founded on the Zionist principle of “maximum Jews on maximum land, and minimum Arabs on minimum land”, which was made reality through sixty-six years of continued assault against Palestinians, denying them the right to live freely and peacefully in their historical homeland.

The Israeli regime has turned the beautiful Gaza strip into a densely populated ghetto, with unsafe water, untreated sewage, and insufficient resources and electricity. This ghetto has become a concentration camp, through repeated Israeli massacres in what the Goldstone Report described as an effort to, “humiliate and terrorize a civilian population, radically diminish[ing] its local economic capacity.”

We express our support and solidarity for the Palestinian civil society’s call for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) against Israel, until it complies with the three basic demands of:

1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall

2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and

3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.

Jews Against Genocide (JAG)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/jews-against-genocide-protest-gaza-attack-at-yad-vashem-holocaust-museum-light-childrens-dolls-on-fire/5391390

Jewish people all over the world are protesting and can see what is happening.

Then why hand over Gaza in 2005, And uproot the 10,000 settlers there...?

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:



We only have been given estimates, which conflict from each side, so that answers your question, because nobody really knows, now how about you answer mine.
Again most of the targets are not even Hamas, but taking out facilities that Hamas uses, so your question is rather moot, when again this is followed on by my questions, which is why some civilians sadly are dying 
So again why are Hamas placing military hardware in civilian areas?
Why are they telling people not to evacuate?
Why are they advising some to be human shields?
Why have they built no bomb shelters?

Yet mire excuses and failure to answer the question.

I'll give you one more chance: what are the estimated numbers?

What did you fail to understand in regard to the majority of targets are not Hamas but to take out their capabilities to attack Israel?

Seriously, what did you not understand by this?

That means, tunnels, rocket launchers etc, only some of Hamas have been targeted which estimates place as 75% of the causalities are claimed to civilians.

Some 271 Palestinians - three-quarters of them civilians - have died since the start of the wider Israeli operation on 8 July, officials in Gaza say.

So again your point is utterly moot and you will have more time to understand why it is moot by answering the questions which you twist and turn out of and each turn and we all know why of course.

So again


Again most of the targets are not even Hamas, but taking out facilities that Hamas uses, so your question is rather moot, when again this is followed on by my questions, which is why some civilians sadly are dying 
So again why are Hamas placing military hardware in civilian areas?
Why are they telling people not to evacuate?
Why are they advising some to be human shields?
Why have they built no bomb shelters?

Did anybody turn up?

I can't find any evidence anybody did Sassy.

round the world on Tuesday 15th and Wednesday 16th July, 2014.
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Didn't look very hard did you.

How many of these groups have protested over the 9000 children that have died in Syria?

Hamid Dabashi wrote:So the bogus proposition that Hamas provokes Israel to attack Gaza is not only narratively false because Israeli military operations in Palestine always predate any Hamas operation, but also because Palestinians in their entirety are neither reducible to Hamas nor can they be denied the right to resist occupation in whatever form they deem necessary. Dividing these forms of resistance into "moderate" and "militant" will also lead nowhere but the pestiferous Washington think tanks.

Either that is bullshite, or the Palestinians are incredibly bad at making their case.  He completely avoids the essential question: What?  For what are the missiles being tossed?  In any event, lobbing missiles is a stupid way to make a point…it isn’t even your point.

Hamid Dabashi wrote:A film by Annemarie Jacir, an art installation by Emily Jacir, a poem by Rafeef Ziadah or Dana Dajani, or a moving song by Rim Banna is infinitely more radical than any flimsy rocket that Hamas might fire. The Israeli propaganda machinery does not want the world to know these radically defiant forms of Palestinian resistance that have grabbed Zionism by the throat for generations and do not allow it to swallow Palestine. But they magnify Hamas as the face of Palestine.

So that’s the reason missiles are tossed at Israel?  Because of a movie that didn’t get the ratings?  Because of a poem that didn’t make New Yorker?

Hamid Dabashi wrote:In a future free and democratic Palestine, who knows how many votes Hamas would garner in a given election. But we are nowhere near that moment yet - and Israel and its criminal military atrocities are the principle obstacle why we are nowhere near that point. Until then, Palestinians are perfectly entitled to resist the robbery of their homeland by any means they deem necessary, including, but never limited to, Hamas.

I have to say, he sounds like a spoiled child.  He doesn’t get his way, and mean old Israel is the reason why.  Again, no facts.  He just begins with his teary act.  Mom, Israel stuck his tongue out at me again.

Hamid Dabashi wrote:Hamas does not provoke Israel to attack Gaza. Palestinians do. The very name of Palestine, the very fact and phenomenon of being a Palestinian, being a witness to the moral bankruptcy of the very idea of Zionism provokes Israel. The mere existence of Palestinians is the denial of Israel and its dominant Zionist ideology. That is the reason that Golda Meir famously said there are no Palestinians, for if there were any Palestinians, she would be a joke. So she had to say there are no Palestinians in order to be an Israeli prime minister.

Hamas or Palestinians…either way, tossing missiles is not nice.  

And the “mere existence of Palestine” goes back to the Romans, and includes the Muslims and Israelis.

This piece is simply an evasion of reality.  The author completely avoids the essential question: What?  For what, are the missiles being tossed into Israel?  I can answer that question, and he cannot refute me: They are tossing missiles because Hamas is in charge; Hamas is Iran; and Iran is using Gaza and the Palestinians as a shield.

Now, Hamid Dabashi, refute that!

This is where Palestinians fail so miserably.  They either have no case, or they are incredibly bad at making their case.  Nowhere in this piece does the writer care to mention why the lobbing of missiles into Israel is beneficial for Palestinians. It’s what I fear most, that Muslims have never developed a sense of reason…of justification…of rationale.  They just go from I want, to I will take.

Fortunately, their adversary is bigger than them.  And so we get this, Po me, Israel is sticking his tongue out at me again.  

Either tell me something more, or get over it.

“Jews against Genocide” Protest Gaza Attack at Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum. Light Children’s Dolls on Fire

Well - did anybody turn up?

FGS, Do you have to be spoonfed as well!

Saturday, 12th July, a group called Jews Against Genocide (JAG) held a memorial service for Palestinian children killed by Israel in its current attack on Gaza. JAG set aflame to a pile of dolls covered in red paint at Yad Vashem, Israel’s holocaust memorial museum. Jews Against Genocide (JAG) is a movement of Jews from all over the world, including Israelis, who are protesting against Israel’s intent to commit genocide against the non-Jewish indigenous people of Palestine.

The Yad Vashem security guard attempted to disrupt the memorial, confiscated JAG’s fire extinguisher, and called the Israeli police to arrest the participants.

We, Jews Against Genocide, came to Yad Vashem, Israel’s memorial of the genocide committed against Jews, to honor the Palestinian children who are dying in a genocide committed by Jews.

We brought dolls to symbolise the children of Gaza, and tried to bring a glimpse of the horror that Gazan’s face, to Israel’s doorstep. We hope to show Israel, and the world, the absurd reality of using the memory of one genocide to justify another.



Don't you understand the point of a tense in a sentence?

Tommy Monk wrote:Then why hand over Gaza in 2005, And uproot the 10,000 settlers there...?

Any answer to this Sassy...???

Again how many of these groups are concerned over the 9000 children that have died in Syria and how many have organised protests?




Excellent post Quill and sums up the poor arguments used, where Israel has 20% Arabs who live there and who have not left in droves, considering the lies claiming apartheid there or why Israel through previous conflicts have not removed all Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank. Israel has had plenty of chances to to do this and yet has withdrawn their troops from Gaza, showing the poor lies being promoted about this situation

Tommy Monk wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Then why hand over Gaza in 2005, And uproot the 10,000 settlers there...?

Any answer to this Sassy...???

What the fuck are you talking about?

Sassy wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:



Any answer to this Sassy...???

What the fuck are you talking about?

A simple question he has asked repeatedly!

Sassy wrote:FGS, Do you have to be spoonfed as well!

Saturday, 12th July, a group called Jews Against Genocide (JAG) held a memorial service for Palestinian children killed by Israel in its current attack on Gaza. JAG set aflame to a pile of dolls covered in red paint at Yad Vashem, Israel’s holocaust memorial museum. Jews Against Genocide (JAG) is a movement of Jews from all over the world, including Israelis, who are protesting against Israel’s intent to commit genocide against the non-Jewish indigenous people of Palestine.

The Yad Vashem security guard attempted to disrupt the memorial, confiscated JAG’s fire extinguisher, and called the Israeli police to arrest the participants.

We, Jews Against Genocide, came to Yad Vashem, Israel’s memorial of the genocide committed against Jews, to honor the Palestinian children who are dying in a genocide committed by Jews.

We brought dolls to symbolise the children of Gaza, and tried to bring a glimpse of the horror that Gazan’s face, to Israel’s doorstep. We hope to show Israel, and the world, the absurd reality of using the memory of one genocide to justify another.



Don't you understand the point of a tense in a sentence?

So how many turned up - that's all i keep asking.

Sharon handed over Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005, over 10,000 Israeli settlers uprooted and left plus service personnel.
Then soon after the Palestinians elected Hamas and Gaza became a launch pad for missiles into Israel targeting civilians, women and children, indiscriminately.
These missiles are also fired from Palestinian civilian buildings and areas.
They target civilians fired from behind a civilian human shield.
(A double war crime.)
If Israel wants all of Palestine, as you claim, then why did they give up Gaza in 2005...???
I think you will find that it is the Arabs who want all of Israel, and to "wipe Israel off the map" as some have said on record.
And before Israel had control of Gaza it was not independent anyway, it was controlled by Egypt....
I put up a couple of informative posts earlier on this thread but they were ignored.

FGS, because of Sharon, and then the people hated him for doing it, and since then Sharon now looks like a dove in comparison to who they have in Government now.

The hand-over of Gaza? Wasn't that cooperation in Israel?

Why is Israel withdrawing from Gaza?

In announcing the "Disengagement Plan" in December 2003, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said the withdrawal was to increase security of residents of Israel, relieve pressure on the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) and reduce friction between Israelis and Palestinians. Hamas, the Islamic Resistance Movement, claims that the withdrawal is the result of violent Palestinian resistance to Israeli occupation.

What is the withdrawal plan?

Starting Aug. 15, tens of thousands of Israeli troops will oversee the evacuation of the settlers from 21 different communities in Gaza and four smaller settlements in the West Bank. They will assist settlers with moving their belongings as well. Some Palestinian security forces will also participate. On Aug. 17, settlers who have not voluntarily left will be forcibly removed and may lose personal property, according to IDF commanders. Israeli soldiers will then demolish settlers' homes.

Why is it controversial?

Many, but not all, Jewish residents of Gaza believe that the land is part of what they call "Eretz Yisrael" -- Greater Israel -- and thus biblically ordained for Jews. Other Israelis believe that withdrawal will not make Israel more secure from Palestinian attack. Some settlers, backed by supporters from outside Gaza, say they will not leave voluntarily on Aug. 15, raising the prospect of violent clashes between the IDF and Israeli citizens. The withdrawal marks the first time since Israel's withdrawal from the Sinai Peninsula in 1982 that it has relinquished Jewish settlements to Arab control.

ho favors the withdrawal?

Public opinion polls show that around 60 percent of Israelis and virtually all Palestinians support the withdrawal.

Who opposes the withdrawal?

Israel's right-wing and religious parties are most opposed to the withdrawal. Finance Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, a member of Sharon's Likud Party, resigned in early August in protest, the highest ranking Israeli official to do so. He said that withdrawal does not require reciprocal concessions by the Palestinians. Hundreds of Israeli soldiers who object to the withdrawal have been excused from duties.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/10/AR2005081000713.html

First of all, it was withdrawal from land that was ILLEGALLY settled in the first place, it was not part of Israel, it was Palestine.

Secondly, the people that opposed it are the people that are in power now and want all of Palestine for Israel, and then will use any means, and the people of Gaza know that and will not be fooled by them.

Wow more C&P, seriously Quill, you may have to start emailing the writers of all these articles