Does Hamas provoke Israel to attack Gaza?

First topic message reminder :


Palestinians as a diverse society are neither reducible to Hamas nor can they be denied the right to resist occupation.

In much of the North American and western European media reporting on the current Israeli carnage of Palestinians, a common refrain is that Hamas has also shot some rockets towards Israel. Given the sophisticated defence system Israel possesses, courtesy of US taxpayers, none of these rockets hit any targets and fortunately no Israeli man, woman, or child has lost any life or limb because of them. This fact has scarcely bothered BBC, CNN, or any other shamelessly pro-Israeli outlet that always seeks to "balance" their reporting on Gaza by mentioning the fact that Hamas has also shot some rockets towards the Jewish state.

In one particularly nefarious example, Diane Sawyer of ABC showed a picture of Palestinians enduring Israeli bombing but told her American audience these were the pictures of Israelis under attack by Hamas rockets.

Be that as it may, the fact remains that Hamas does shoot some rockets towards Israel, and though these rockets scarcely harm anyone does not diminish their intent, which is to hit somewhere or harm someone. So the Hamas operation intends to harm people but they cannot do as they wish for their military wherewithal is not outsourced to the United States.

Thanks to AIPAC and other Israeli lobbies and pro-Israeli billionaires, among them those who encourage US President Barack Obama to nuke Iran on behalf of Israel, Israel enjoys a special relationship with the most deadly military machinery on the planet and partakes in that deadly force at will. Hamas in this regard has lost the bid to its Israeli counterparts and any outside military help they might receive is from countries like Iran that can hardly be compared to that gargantuan deadly machine called the US.

Erratic rockets

Useless as they are, why is Hamas firing these erratic rockets, and why would they not stop them anyway? Why bother? They are hardly any match for the Israeli army. After all, Hamas is David and Israel is Goliath in this contest. Wouldn't Palestinians be better off without Hamas trying to defend them in Gaza?

Here we need to ask the question in a slightly larger context. Is Hamas not a legitimate Palestinian organisation, with enough grassroots support that it won a major parliamentary election in Gaza back in 2006? I have known, and I still know, many Palestinians who do not like Hamas, disagree with their ideology, and oppose their ways. But these Palestinians of diverse political opinions are as much part of the Palestinian resistance to occupation and theft of their homeland as Hamas is.

Like any other richly diversified society, Palestinians are composed of followers of many religions, politics, and ideologies. Palestinians are Christian, Muslim, atheists, and agnostic. They are nationalist and/or socialists. They are secularists, Islamists, post-Islamists, and post-secularists. They are feminists, modernists, post-modernists, deconstructionists, and they are nativists at times, cosmopolitan at others, unionists, pacifists, militants, you name it. One of them was a founding figure of a school of critical thinking called post-colonial studies.

By far the most consistent and the most definitive aspect of Palestinian resistance to the occupation and theft of their homeland over the decades has been non-violent civil disobedience. Resistance for Palestinians is definitive of who and what they are. They might be a poet like Mahmoud Darwish, a novelist like Ghassan Kanafani, a film-maker like Michel Khleifi, an artist like Mona Hatoum, a feminist like Lila Abu Lughod - but in doing what they do, whatever they do, they oppose and defy the armed robbery of their homeland.

But there are also those Palestinians who have taken arms and opposed villainy by violence. As part of this resistance, Hamas is integral to the Palestinian national liberation movement, but like any other forms of resistance, Hamas is not definitive to Palestine.

Israeli propaganda machinery

What the Israeli propaganda machinery does is to reduce the entirety of Palestine, the rich and diversified tapestry of Palestinian resistance, to Hamas, then demonise Hamas. The strategy works, especially aided and abetted by major state-sponsored or corporate media like BBC, ABC, or CNN. Execute this strategy, and go on a rampage against Palestinians, maim and murder them with impunity.

Now for the sake of argument: Suppose we wake up tomorrow morning and there is no Hamas to shoot off any useless rockets towards Israel. Then what? The magnificent Israeli benevolence will move into operation and return the stolen Palestine to their rightful owners? Of course not. Suppose Hamas did not even exist since its founding in 1987. Then what? Israel would have by now returned Palestine to its rightful owners? Of course not.

Palestinians are varied and Palestinians are entirely entitled to resist and oppose the occupation and theft of their homeland by any means they deem necessary - whether it is by a beautiful song by Muhammad Assaf, a magnificent poem by Mahmoud Darwish, a film by Elia Suleiman, a novel by Ghassan Kanafani, a book on Palestinian costumes by Widad Kawar, or another on Palestinian cuisine by Rawia Bishara or by the militant Marxist organisation PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine), or indeed through the Islamist ideology of Hamas.

One may not agree with Hamas, may not join them, but one cannot reduce the entire tapestry of Palestinian resistance to Hamas, or tell Hamas to disband, for Israelis are about to return Palestine to its rightful owners.

So the bogus proposition that Hamas provokes Israel to attack Gaza is not only narratively false because Israeli military operations in Palestine always predate any Hamas operation, but also because Palestinians in their entirety are neither reducible to Hamas nor can they be denied the right to resist occupation in whatever form they deem necessary. Dividing these forms of resistance into "moderate" and "militant" will also lead nowhere but the pestiferous Washington think tanks.

A film by Annemarie Jacir, an art installation by Emily Jacir, a poem by Rafeef Ziadah or Dana Dajani, or a moving song by Rim Banna is infinitely more radical than any flimsy rocket that Hamas might fire. The Israeli propaganda machinery does not want the world to know these radically defiant forms of Palestinian resistance that have grabbed Zionism by the throat for generations and do not allow it to swallow Palestine. But they magnify Hamas as the face of Palestine.

Military atrocities

In a future free and democratic Palestine, who knows how many votes Hamas would garner in a given election. But we are nowhere near that moment yet - and Israel and its criminal military atrocities are the principle obstacle why we are nowhere near that point. Until then, Palestinians are perfectly entitled to resist the robbery of their homeland by any means they deem necessary, including, but never limited to, Hamas.

Hamas does not provoke Israel to attack Gaza. Palestinians do. The very name of Palestine, the very fact and phenomenon of being a Palestinian, being a witness to the moral bankruptcy of the very idea of Zionism provokes Israel. The mere existence of Palestinians is the denial of Israel and its dominant Zionist ideology. That is the reason that Golda Meir famously said there are no Palestinians, for if there were any Palestinians, she would be a joke. So she had to say there are no Palestinians in order to be an Israeli prime minister.

So anytime you hear an Israeli propagandist mention the word "Hamas", substitute for it "Palestinians" and the replaced signifier is far closer and truer to what they mean. They want to level that land from one end to another, continue to ethnically cleanse it, and call it Israel, and wash, as one young Israeli put it bluntly, Palestinians into the sea.

Zionism as a murderous machinery of colonial conquest will not stop until the very last inch of Palestine is taken - and yet the Palestinians persist in their homeland, resist occupation, procreate, sing, dance, compose music and poetry, make films, stage drama, organise acts of civil disobedience, mobilise for BDS ... and yes, of course, some of them also pick up a few flimsy arms against the most sophisticated armed robbery of a homeland in history.

Hamid Dabashi is Hagop Kevorkian Professor of Iranian Studies and Comparative Literature at Columbia University in New York.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/07/hamas-provoke-israel-attack-201471512246535512.html

That sums it up exactly.

If Hammas disappeared tomorrow Israel would not stop until it had all of Palestine.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


That shows you did not understand anything I just asked Zack, because I am not asking any Muslims to support me because of how I defend against discrimination in this country, not once did I say that, your words not mine and he brought up reference to genes, not I. Which proves again not only do you lie about hacking crap. but you also lie here
Then of course Sassy brings in the old victim status argument of what and how one holocaust survivor feels whilst neglecting how other Jews feel, like one who is 98 survivor and cannot move to get to a bomb shelter, so please spare me your pathetic tactics as I can easily turn them onto you and show then in the same vein, it shows you cannot debate and rely solely on the blame game as you always have done.

My point is valid and would raise any concern, we see countless killings going on daily in for example Syria and Iraq, let alone countless overs, where Muslims Christians etc all innocent are being butchered yet this does not create the same passion and zeal that it does with Israel and Palestine and as I am a Non-Muslim I will question where I find things that do not add up, which is for Zack to answer, which as you are not a Muslim, you cannot answer

No, you were trying to make me out to be some sort of extremist. But then back tracked.

As I said to you before, you have no right to judge me. You have no idea what I do outside this forum. Nor do I have to justify anything to you.

The protest against Gaza has to include demonstrations in the UK, as the UK and other western governments support the Zionist ideals. The UK government has already condemned Assad, so the same type of protest wouldn't work.

This is Freedom Fighting 101 Didge and I'm surprised I have to explain this to someone of your intelligence.

“It would be my greatest sadness to see Zionists (Jews) do to Palestinian Arabs much of what Nazis did to Jews.”


― Albert Einstein

Suppose Albert was an extremist too. Or is Didge more intelligent and knowledgeable than Einstein?

No the UK government supports the right of Israel to defend itself, so that was more bullshit on your part clearly showing how you are easily indoctrinated.

I am concerned you have such a passion against Israel, them being Jews and of course 20% Arabs and yet there is far greater crisis and conflicts going on where we hardly here a peep out of you, that is a concern, especially when we see riots in France and Turkey attacking Jews who have absolutely nothing to do with what is going on there, except for the association of being a Jew. You see a Jew can condemn a Jew, if a Non-Muslim condemns a Muslim he is called an Islamophobe, if a Non_Jew condemns a Jew he is called antisemitic, now is that right of course not, but there is a difference between critical view points and hateful view points, which we have seen in some responses to exterminate people, so can you not see the concern with that.
The biggest difference between you and I, is that I am vocal to condemn when Israel does wrong, you do not seem vocal with Hamas, I want peace by having people unite from both nations and to rid themselves of Hamas and this RW government in Israel for a more Liberal one, so there can be reconciliation, but this t to continued stance thrown with people within the conflict to people outside the conflict has never achieved anything, because nothing will change, unless the people of both nations say enough is enough.

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

No, you were trying to make me out to be some sort of extremist. But then back tracked.

As I said to you before, you have no right to judge me. You have no idea what I do outside this forum. Nor do I have to justify anything to you.

The protest against Gaza has to include demonstrations in the UK, as the UK and other western governments support the Zionist ideals. The UK government has already condemned Assad, so the same type of protest wouldn't work.

This is Freedom Fighting 101 Didge and I'm surprised I have to explain this to someone of your intelligence.

“It would be my greatest sadness to see Zionists (Jews) do to Palestinian Arabs much of what Nazis did to Jews.”


― Albert Einstein

Suppose Albert was an extremist too. Or is Didge more intelligent and knowledgeable than Einstein?

No the UK government supports the right of Israel to defend itself, so that was more bullshit on your part clearly showing how you are easily indoctrinated.

I am concerned you have such a passion against Israel, them being Jews and of course 20% Arabs and yet there is far greater crisis and conflicts going on where we hardly here a peep out of you, that is a concern, especially when we see riots in France and Turkey attacking Jews who have absolutely nothing to do with what is going on there, except for the association of being a Jew. You see a Jew can condemn a Jew, if a Non-Muslim condemns a Muslim he is called an Islamophobe, if a Non_Jew condemns a Jew he is called  antisemitic, now is that right of course not, but there is a difference between critical view points and hateful view points, which we have seen in some responses to exterminate people, so can you not see the concern with that.
The biggest difference between you and I, is that I am vocal to condemn when Israel does wrong, you do not seem vocal with Hamas, I want peace by having people unite from both nations and to rid themselves of Hamas and this RW government in Israel for a more Liberal one, so there can be reconciliation, but this t to continued stance thrown with people within the conflict to people outside the conflict has never achieved anything, because nothing will change, unless the people of both nations say enough is enough.

That's my point. That's why the protest for Gaza must include a protest against the UK government.

Now stop being a coward and answer my question.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


No the UK government supports the right of Israel to defend itself, so that was more bullshit on your part clearly showing how you are easily indoctrinated.

I am concerned you have such a passion against Israel, them being Jews and of course 20% Arabs and yet there is far greater crisis and conflicts going on where we hardly here a peep out of you, that is a concern, especially when we see riots in France and Turkey attacking Jews who have absolutely nothing to do with what is going on there, except for the association of being a Jew. You see a Jew can condemn a Jew, if a Non-Muslim condemns a Muslim he is called an Islamophobe, if a Non_Jew condemns a Jew he is called  antisemitic, now is that right of course not, but there is a difference between critical view points and hateful view points, which we have seen in some responses to exterminate people, so can you not see the concern with that.
The biggest difference between you and I, is that I am vocal to condemn when Israel does wrong, you do not seem vocal with Hamas, I want peace by having people unite from both nations and to rid themselves of Hamas and this RW government in Israel for a more Liberal one, so there can be reconciliation, but this t to continued stance thrown with people within the conflict to people outside the conflict has never achieved anything, because nothing will change, unless the people of both nations say enough is enough.

That's my point. That's why the protest for Gaza must include a protest against the UK government.

Now stop being a coward and answer my question.

More infantile insults and you have failed to answer countless of mine, so when you grow some backbone and man up and answer them, of which there is countless, then we can continue.
Ball is in your court

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

As I said to you in the bank note protest thread, just because my focus is on the current Gaza conflict does not mean I do not care about other issues.

Nor do I voice all my objections on this forum, so let's not pretend we actually know each other. We don't.

You say we are all human beings but that Muslim/Palestinian children are being indoctrinated to hate Jews and Israelis. Are you really that naive to think Israeli children and adults are not indoctrinated to hate Arabs? Or do you need me to pull up some YouTube clips?

The irony is that Hamas was losing popularity in Gaza, especially after the dismantlement of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Which is why Hamas made a unity deal with Fatah in the West. Bank.

Israel didn't like this, who want. Hamas destroyed at any cost. Hamas do want peace but don't want to capitulate to the demands of the previous ceasefire (negotiated by the man who dismantled the MB in Egypt) for Hamas to disarm completely. That's not a peace plan but a unilateral demand to surrender.

Israel knew Hamas would never accept this and had the excuse to attack Gaza on the ground as well as the air.

This is the realpolitik of this crisis.

I do believe some children are indoctrinated to hate Arabs, but you also ignore that so are Arabs, or would you like proof?





• Some 70 percent of those considered anti-Semitic said they have never met a Jew. Overall, 74 percent of respondents said they had never met a Jew.
• Thirty-five percent of those surveyed had never heard of the Holocaust. Of those who had, roughly one-third said it is either a myth or greatly exaggerated.
• The most anti-Semitic region in the world is the Middle East and North Africa, with 74 percent harboring anti-Semitic views. Eastern Europe was second at 34 percent. The least anti-Semitic region was Oceania (Australia and New Zealand) at 14 percent.
• The three countries outside the Middle East with the highest rates of anti-Semitic attitudes were Greece, at 69 percent, Malaysia at 61 percent and Armenia at 58 percent.
• About 49 percent of Muslims worldwide harbor anti-Semitic views, compared to 24 percent of Christians.
• The West Bank and Gaza were the most anti-Semitic places surveyed, with 93 percent of respondents expressing anti-Semitic views. The Arab country with the lowest level of anti-Semitic views was Morocco, at 80 percent. Iran ranked as the least anti-Semitic country in the Middle East, at 56 percent.
• The least anti-Semitic country overall was Laos, where 0.2 percent of the population holds anti-Semitic views. The Philippines, Sweden, the Netherlands and Vietnam all came in at 6 percent or lower.
• Approximately 9 percent of Americans and 14 percent of Canadians harbor anti-Semitic attitudes.
• Thirty-four percent of respondents older than 65 were deemed anti-Semitic, compared to 25 percent of those younger than 65. Men polled were slightly more anti-Semitic than women

Read more: http://www.jta.org/2014/05/13/news-opinion/world/survey-more-than-a-quarter-of-the-world-hates-jews#ixzz387UjudYv


Does this not concern you also Zack?

No this is why Hamas started the conflict as I have already stated they were losing popularity, can you not read or do you require going to specsavers. This is  why we know they place rockets and launchers within civilian areas are did not the Proof of this whit the UN finding 20 rockets  in a school escape your attention?
Hamas needs the sympathy vote and the best PR they can have is to offer up its own civilians as sacrifices which you fail to understand, there is no denying they use civilians as human shields as just proven, what is also wrong which I have condemned is where Israel get it wrong and kill civilians where there is no military target, that is a war crime and condemn it. That is the vile reality of their resolve and as yet they still do not want a ceasefire even after ones have been put forward and their  response was some pathetic excuse claiming it would be a surrender, sorry that is bull, a ceasefire brings about a stop to the fighting thus stopping anymore getting hurt and to the then discuss further proposals.

In my view both sides were looking to fight, but Gaza started this by firing rockets after the young boy died, Israel did not do this, after the 3 young Israeli's died, which speaks volumes.



I see you do not want to take me up on my proposal, interesting    

No, I don't need proof. Lol! I'm glad you accept Zionist racism.

Yes, I am concerned about anti-semitism. Start a thread on it and I will happily comment.

And what proposal? Neither of us represent Israel or Palestine. Just how arrogant are you? You really think too much of yourself. Lol!

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

As I said to you in the bank note protest thread, just because my focus is on the current Gaza conflict does not mean I do not care about other issues.

Nor do I voice all my objections on this forum, so let's not pretend we actually know each other. We don't.

You say we are all human beings but that Muslim/Palestinian children are being indoctrinated to hate Jews and Israelis. Are you really that naive to think Israeli children and adults are not indoctrinated to hate Arabs? Or do you need me to pull up some YouTube clips?

The irony is that Hamas was losing popularity in Gaza, especially after the dismantlement of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Which is why Hamas made a unity deal with Fatah in the West. Bank.

Israel didn't like this, who want. Hamas destroyed at any cost. Hamas do want peace but don't want to capitulate to the demands of the previous ceasefire (negotiated by the man who dismantled the MB in Egypt) for Hamas to disarm completely. That's not a peace plan but a unilateral demand to surrender.

Israel knew Hamas would never accept this and had the excuse to attack Gaza on the ground as well as the air.

This is the realpolitik of this crisis.

I do believe some children are indoctrinated to hate Arabs, but you also ignore that so are Arabs, or would you like proof?





• Some 70 percent of those considered anti-Semitic said they have never met a Jew. Overall, 74 percent of respondents said they had never met a Jew.
• Thirty-five percent of those surveyed had never heard of the Holocaust. Of those who had, roughly one-third said it is either a myth or greatly exaggerated.
• The most anti-Semitic region in the world is the Middle East and North Africa, with 74 percent harboring anti-Semitic views. Eastern Europe was second at 34 percent. The least anti-Semitic region was Oceania (Australia and New Zealand) at 14 percent.
• The three countries outside the Middle East with the highest rates of anti-Semitic attitudes were Greece, at 69 percent, Malaysia at 61 percent and Armenia at 58 percent.
• About 49 percent of Muslims worldwide harbor anti-Semitic views, compared to 24 percent of Christians.
• The West Bank and Gaza were the most anti-Semitic places surveyed, with 93 percent of respondents expressing anti-Semitic views. The Arab country with the lowest level of anti-Semitic views was Morocco, at 80 percent. Iran ranked as the least anti-Semitic country in the Middle East, at 56 percent.
• The least anti-Semitic country overall was Laos, where 0.2 percent of the population holds anti-Semitic views. The Philippines, Sweden, the Netherlands and Vietnam all came in at 6 percent or lower.
• Approximately 9 percent of Americans and 14 percent of Canadians harbor anti-Semitic attitudes.
• Thirty-four percent of respondents older than 65 were deemed anti-Semitic, compared to 25 percent of those younger than 65. Men polled were slightly more anti-Semitic than women

Read more: http://www.jta.org/2014/05/13/news-opinion/world/survey-more-than-a-quarter-of-the-world-hates-jews#ixzz387UjudYv


Does this not concern you also Zack?

No this is why Hamas started the conflict as I have already stated they were losing popularity, can you not read or do you require going to specsavers. This is  why we know they place rockets and launchers within civilian areas are did not the Proof of this whit the UN finding 20 rockets  in a school escape your attention?
Hamas needs the sympathy vote and the best PR they can have is to offer up its own civilians as sacrifices which you fail to understand, there is no denying they use civilians as human shields as just proven, what is also wrong which I have condemned is where Israel get it wrong and kill civilians where there is no military target, that is a war crime and condemn it. That is the vile reality of their resolve and as yet they still do not want a ceasefire even after ones have been put forward and their  response was some pathetic excuse claiming it would be a surrender, sorry that is bull, a ceasefire brings about a stop to the fighting thus stopping anymore getting hurt and to the then discuss further proposals.

In my view both sides were looking to fight, but Gaza started this by firing rockets after the young boy died, Israel did not do this, after the 3 young Israeli's died, which speaks volumes.



I see you do not want to take me up on my proposal, interesting    

No, I don't need proof. Lol! I'm glad you accept Zionist racism.

Yes, I am concerned about anti-semitism. Start a thread on it and I will happily comment.

And what proposal? Neither of us represent Israel or Palestine. Just how arrogant are you? You really think too much of yourself. Lol!

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

That's my point. That's why the protest for Gaza must include a protest against the UK government.

Now stop being a coward and answer my question.

More infantile insults and you have failed to answer countless of mine, so when you grow some backbone and man up and answer them, of which there is countless, then we can continue.
Ball is in your court

Like I said, you are a coward. No need to answer as not answering still proves my point.

your hesitation proves that you actually think you are more intelligent than Einstein.

Thank you for quantifying the depth of your arrogance.

I do not accept Zionist racism, how pathetic is that, and yet more deflection from answering my points when they are too difficult for you to grasp.
Are you saying all Israelis are Zionists.??


Do you even know what a Zionist is?


Einstein was one:


Zionism springs from an even deeper motive than Jewish suffering. It is rooted in a Jewish spiritual tradition, whose maintenance and development are for Jews the raison d'être of their continued existence as a community. ― Albert Einstein


Is all your points going to be poor deflections about me, and not the debate?

I have given you plenty of replies which it seems you are now just avoiding, if this is the case there is little point debating you, until you start acting adult and take on the points


Good luck

Didge wrote:I do not accept Zionist racism, how pathetic is that, and yet more deflection from answering my points when they are too difficult for you to grasp.
Are you saying all Israelis are Zionists.??


Do you even know what a Zionist is?


Einstein was one:


Zionism springs from an even deeper motive than Jewish suffering. It is rooted in a Jewish spiritual tradition, whose maintenance and development are for Jews the raison d'être of their continued existence as a community. ― Albert Einstein


Is all your points going to be poor deflections about me, and not the debate?

I have given you plenty of replies which it seems you are now just avoiding, if this is the case there is little point debating you, until you start acting adult and take on the points


Good luck

Did Einstein want a Jewish state or a secular state?

I'm glad you panicked and looked up another Einstein quote. But try looking up the above.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:

More infantile insults and you have failed to answer countless of mine, so when you grow some backbone and man up and answer them, of which there is countless, then we can continue.
Ball is in your court

Like I said, you are a coward. No need to answer as not answering still proves my point.

your hesitation proves that you actually think you are more intelligent than Einstein.

Thank you for quantifying the depth of your arrogance.

More poor infantile response and yet more deflection, showing you cannot respond to my points, I just showed Einstein was a Zionist:

There are different view points on Zionism, but being as you are not as up to speed on such matters, I am not surprised you are not aware he was a Spiritual Zionist.


Zionism springs from an even deeper motive than Jewish suffering. It is rooted in a Jewish spiritual tradition, whose maintenance and development are for Jews the raison d'être of their continued existence as a community. ― Albert Einstein


Now your argument seems to be about the RW Government being Zionist or extreme Zionist, which clearly shows how you have glossed over the fact I have stated for the people of Israel to vote in a more Liberal Government or do you think all Jews are Zionists now?
You see this is why you are clouded with hate, which is proven by your responses showing you fail to read my replies, I want peace and you reply with anger, where anger is driven by hate

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:I do not accept Zionist racism, how pathetic is that, and yet more deflection from answering my points when they are too difficult for you to grasp.
Are you saying all Israelis are Zionists.??


Do you even know what a Zionist is?


Einstein was one:


Zionism springs from an even deeper motive than Jewish suffering. It is rooted in a Jewish spiritual tradition, whose maintenance and development are for Jews the raison d'être of their continued existence as a community. ― Albert Einstein


Is all your points going to be poor deflections about me, and not the debate?

I have given you plenty of replies which it seems you are now just avoiding, if this is the case there is little point debating you, until you start acting adult and take on the points


Good luck

Did Einstein want a Jewish state or a secular state?

I'm glad you panicked and looked up another Einstein quote. But try looking up the above.

Like me he wanted peace and not hate, which is odd as you have avoided this in all my responses showing how little you even know about Zionism, where again you see I answer your points, but you fail on mine and now hinge your whole debate on the view of one genius!
Wow, suggest you stick to the points of the debate, actually read them and see I want changes on both sides to happen to bring about peace.

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Like I said, you are a coward. No need to answer as not answering still proves my point.

your hesitation proves that you actually think you are more intelligent than Einstein.

Thank you for quantifying the depth of your arrogance.

More poor infantile response and yet more deflection, showing you cannot respond to my points, I just showed Einstein was a Zionist:

There are different view points on Zionism, but being as you are not as up to speed on such matters, I am not surprised you are not aware he was a Spiritual Zionist.


Zionism springs from an even deeper motive than Jewish suffering. It is rooted in a Jewish spiritual tradition, whose maintenance and development are for Jews the raison d'être of their continued existence as a community. ― Albert Einstein


Now your argument seems to be about the RW Government being Zionist or extreme Zionist, which clearly shows how you have glossed over the fact I have stated for the people of Israel to vote in a more Liberal Government or do you think all Jews are Zionists now?
You see this is why you are clouded with hate, which is proven by your responses showing you fail to read my replies, I want  peace and you reply with anger, where anger is driven by hate

Sure, just like the Jews against Zionism are anti-Semitic and clouded with hate? Lol!

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Did Einstein want a Jewish state or a secular state?

I'm glad you panicked and looked up another Einstein quote. But try looking up the above.

Like me he wanted peace and not hate, which is odd as you have avoided this in all my responses showing how little you even know about Zionism, where again you see I answer your points, but you fail on mine and now hinge your whole debate on the view of one genius!
Wow, suggest you stick to the points of the debate, actually read them and see I want changes on both sides to happen to bring about peace.

Then answer the question. There are only 2 options. No need to whinge and waffle.

You can actually answer in 1 word, can't you?

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


More poor infantile response and yet more deflection, showing you cannot respond to my points, I just showed Einstein was a Zionist:

There are different view points on Zionism, but being as you are not as up to speed on such matters, I am not surprised you are not aware he was a Spiritual Zionist.


Zionism springs from an even deeper motive than Jewish suffering. It is rooted in a Jewish spiritual tradition, whose maintenance and development are for Jews the raison d'être of their continued existence as a community. ― Albert Einstein


Now your argument seems to be about the RW Government being Zionist or extreme Zionist, which clearly shows how you have glossed over the fact I have stated for the people of Israel to vote in a more Liberal Government or do you think all Jews are Zionists now?
You see this is why you are clouded with hate, which is proven by your responses showing you fail to read my replies, I want  peace and you reply with anger, where anger is driven by hate

Sure, just like the Jews against Zionism are anti-Semitic and clouded with hate? Lol!

I am sure some might be filled with hate and others not with hate, what a silly reply.

Anything else or are you going to keep ignoring my points because you have ignored the fact I want peace and you are more interested in showing anger and hate?

Fuzzy Zack wrote:As I said to you in the bank note protest thread, just because my focus is on the current Gaza conflict does not mean I do not care about other issues.

Nor do I voice all my objections on this forum, so let's not pretend we actually know each other. We don't.

You say we are all human beings but that Muslim/Palestinian children are being indoctrinated to hate Jews and Israelis. Are you really that naive to think Israeli children and adults are not indoctrinated to hate Arabs? Or do you need me to pull up some YouTube clips?

The irony is that Hamas was losing popularity in Gaza, especially after the dismantlement of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Which is why Hamas made a unity deal with Fatah in the West. Bank.

Israel didn't like this, who want. Hamas destroyed at any cost. Hamas do want peace but don't want to capitulate to the demands of the previous ceasefire (negotiated by the man who dismantled the MB in Egypt) for Hamas to disarm completely. That's not a peace plan but a unilateral demand to surrender.

Israel knew Hamas would never accept this and had the excuse to attack Gaza on the ground as well as the air.

This is the realpolitik of this crisis.

Very good summary.  To be sure, children of both sides are being indoctrinated...meaning, I guess, mothers are ultimately to blame in war.  

Israel definitely wants Hamas out, because Hamas is in reality Iran.  Iran has no place in this conflict...it is neither Sunni, nor strategically located to give it an interest.  

I can see that the Gazans no longer want Hamas involved; it is painfully evident that Hamas is using them.  The problem is--unlike Egypt, which has an Army to step in--Hamas will not go away.  Left to their own devices, it will be one cold day in hell before Hamas permits Gaza a free election.

I disagree that Hamas wants peace.  Hamas is in there solely for one purpose: to keep the conflict going. Hamas does not represent any legitimate interest in Gaza.  It is so important to recognize that Hamas really has no business in that piece of property; Hamas is Shiite and Iranian.  

But, the conflict keeps the greater issue alive.  As you can see on this site, people forget who started the contemporary iteration of violence, opting rather to argue the rights and wrongs of the nearly 3/4-century old dispute between Israel and Palestine.  That is the anomaly that hands us the ridiculosity of a war started by one side, and people flaying the other side.

Yes, realpolitik is necessary.  And that is what we have with Israel lending boots to the conflict.  Only by invading can Israel present a real police force to impose calm...and do what the Egyptian military did for Egypt: oust the infection.

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Sure, just like the Jews against Zionism are anti-Semitic and clouded with hate? Lol!

I am sure some might be filled with hate and others not with hate, what a silly reply.

Anything else or are you going to keep ignoring my points because you have ignored the fact I want peace and you are more interested in showing anger and hate?

Love the way you're trying to make out to be an extremist. Show me where I have advocated war? I dare you.

And no, yours was the silly reply. Are you sure you re not Smelly Bandit? You seem to agree a lot with his views.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


I am sure some might be filled with hate and others not with hate, what a silly reply.

Anything else or are you going to keep ignoring my points because you have ignored the fact I want peace and you are more interested in showing anger and hate?

Love the way you're trying to make out to be an extremist. Show me where I have advocated war? I dare you.

And no, yours was the silly reply. Are you sure you re not Smelly Bandit? You seem to agree a lot with his views.

Eh, I said you are replying with anger, and anger is lead by hate, quite simple really, is funny though you make claims on me and thus contradict yourself, even after I advocate peace, yet you claim I back racism now, which is daft and here we go again with infantile responses to deflect asking if I am smelly, wow really sums you up how badly you are deflecting. It shows the many posts on this where i disagree with him, I suggest you go back and read some, where I am telling both him and sassy, their are crating more hate and the wrong road to peace, but then as seen you are not interested in debating instead talking about me lol

Let me know when you have something comprehensive on the debate as a reply


Thanks

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Love the way you're trying to make out to be an extremist. Show me where I have advocated war? I dare you.

And no, yours was the silly reply. Are you sure you re not Smelly Bandit? You seem to agree a lot with his views.

Eh, I said you are replying with anger, and anger is lead by hate, quite simple really, is funny though you make claims on me and thus contradict yourself, even after I advocate peace, yet you claim I back racism now, which is daft and here we go again with infantile responses to deflect asking if I am smelly, wow really sums you up how badly you are deflecting. It shows the many posts on this where i disagree with him, I suggest you go back and read some, where I am telling both him and sassy, their are crating more hate and the wrong road to peace, but then as seen you are not interested in debating instead talking about me lol

Let me know when you have something comprehensive on the debate as a reply


Thanks

The fact you couldn't find 1 quote from me advocating war shows how much BS you talk. I gave you a chance.

You're not only a liar but arrogant also. As this thread proves.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


Eh, I said you are replying with anger, and anger is lead by hate, quite simple really, is funny though you make claims on me and thus contradict yourself, even after I advocate peace, yet you claim I back racism now, which is daft and here we go again with infantile responses to deflect asking if I am smelly, wow really sums you up how badly you are deflecting. It shows the many posts on this where i disagree with him, I suggest you go back and read some, where I am telling both him and sassy, their are crating more hate and the wrong road to peace, but then as seen you are not interested in debating instead talking about me lol

Let me know when you have something comprehensive on the debate as a reply


Thanks

The fact you couldn't find 1 quote from me advocating war shows how much BS you talk. I gave you a chance.

You're not only a liar but arrogant also. As this thread proves.

Oh dear, how dull and childish yet again where all you can resort to is infantile responses, sorry that is very boring, last chance  to debate the topic, otherwise you act as childish as you like on your own! The fact you claim I back racism and Zionism and yet have no post to show I do, shows and proves you are a hypocrite on this, my concern comes off the back you only have passion for the conflict in Gaza, yet show little of the same passion for other conflicts, which is very valid to ask, but as seen all you do is act like a 3 year old.

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

The fact you couldn't find 1 quote from me advocating war shows how much BS you talk. I gave you a chance.

You're not only a liar but arrogant also. As this thread proves.

Oh dear, how dull and childish yet again where all you can resort to is infantile responses, sorry that is very boring, last chance  to debate the topic, otherwise you act as childish as you like on your own! The fact you claim I back racism and Zionism and yet have no post to show I do, shows and proves you are a hypocrite on this, my concern comes off the back you only have passion for the conflict in Gaza, yet show little of the same passion for other conflicts, which is very valid to ask, but as seen all you do is act like a 3 year old.

You failed to take my challenge.

Start a thread on any conflict you want and I will contribute.

You are so arrogant that you think you have the right to judge my morality by how I contribute on this forum.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


Oh dear, how dull and childish yet again where all you can resort to is infantile responses, sorry that is very boring, last chance  to debate the topic, otherwise you act as childish as you like on your own! The fact you claim I back racism and Zionism and yet have no post to show I do, shows and proves you are a hypocrite on this, my concern comes off the back you only have passion for the conflict in Gaza, yet show little of the same passion for other conflicts, which is very valid to ask, but as seen all you do is act like a 3 year old.

You failed to take my challenge.

Start a thread on any conflict you want and I will contribute.

You are so arrogant that you think you have the right to judge my morality by how I contribute on this forum.

End of debate then, as clearly you are still acting like a child and failed to take my challenge on you with Hamas and me on Israel.


Take care.

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

You failed to take my challenge.

Start a thread on any conflict you want and I will contribute.

You are so arrogant that you think you have the right to judge my morality by how I contribute on this forum.

End of debate then, as clearly you are still acting like a child and failed to take my challenge on you with Hamas and me on Israel.


Take care.

What debate? Lol!

What you fail to realise is that the killing of babies is never a debate.

I am not Hamas and you're not Israel. Nothing will change if we debate. That's how arrogant you are.

For me this is a protest. Not a debate. I told you this days ago. But for you, everything is a debate. For me the killing of babies is murder and not worthy of debate. That's my morality, sunshine.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


End of debate then, as clearly you are still acting like a child and failed to take my challenge on you with Hamas and me on Israel.


Take care.

What debate? Lol!

What you fail to realise is that the killing of babies is never a debate.

I am not Hamas and you're not Israel. Nothing will change if we debate. That's how arrogant you are.

For me this is a protest. Not a debate. I told you this days ago. But for you, everything is a debate. For me the killing of babies is murder and not worthy of debate. That's my morality, sunshine.