Iraq war III...???

Didge wrote:Love this, hee hee, now smelly does not think there were other nations or empires.

Ha Ha ha ha

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


Oh dear failed again and try again:


So you are telling me now we do not pay taxes no matter the religion that goes towards our armed forces?
You see this is what is so funny, all paid taxes normally under any ruler at this time, no matter the religion, here the Muslim off something less than the normal tax and also exempt them from military service, I would like you to show me any equivalent for the time?

Evidence please for your claim on the tax being forced onto children, women and the elderly in the beginnings of Islam?

Take your time

classic avoidance
Yes classic avoidance where you have failed to answer my questions

you've just gone round and contradicted yourself
Really, is that why you cannot provide any evidence

earlier you crowed about how no government is enforcing jizya which means its an illegal tax
Am I, that is noce of you, how about answering my questions dummy?

now you're saying "oh its just a normal tax"
It is a tax

isis are not the iraqi government nor are they the iraqi military are they didge?? and yet they are the ones demanding the jizya
 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 
How is that evidence of now Islam, fucking hell that is embarressing, so what about all other Muslims, nations? Hilarious, so fallacy association fail yet again from smelly, where is the evidence then that that even they charge children smelly?
Whoops 

i will ask you yet again
the Muslims invaded the non Muslim country
who are the non Muslims paying to be protected from when the only people invading them are Muslims??
Well at the time it would have been to defend against the Byzantium and Sassanid empires, how many more time do you nee to be told this for you to keep embarrassing yourself smelly, in fact it also is to stop in fightig between Christians and Muslims and other faiths like the Zoroastrians.I mean before the Muslims came along, the Christians and Jews kept butchering each other through each different empire, but then history was never your strong point was it dummy 

as for evidence

*********************************

Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood to Coptic Christians: Convert to Islam, or pay ‘jizya’ tax

The Muslim Brotherhood and its supporters have began forcing the roughly 15,000 Christian Copts of Dalga village in Egypt to pay a jizya tax as indicated in Koran 9:29, author and translator Raymond Ibrahim reported on Sunday.

Jizya is the money, or tribute, “that conquered non-Muslims historically had to pay to their Islamic overlords ‘with willing submission and while feeling themselves subdued’ to safeguard their existence,” Mr. Ibrahim explained.

According to Fr. Yunis Shawqi, who spoke yesterday to Dostor reporters in Dalga, all Copts in the village",“without exception" are being forced to pay the tax.

“[The] value of the tribute and method of payment differ from one place to another in the village, so that, some are being expected to pay 200 Egyptian pounds per day, others 500 Egyptian pounds per day,” Mr. Shawqi said, according to the translator.

In some cases, families not able to pay have been attacked. As many as 40 Christian families have now fled Dalga, Mr. Ibrahim reported.

The taxes are not unique to Egypt either.

Just over the weekend Syrian rebels went into a Christian man’s “shop and gave him three options: become Muslim; pay $70,000 as a tax levied on non-Muslims, known as jizya; or be killed along with his family,” Christian Science Monitor reported.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/10/egypts-Muslim-brotherhood-convert-islam-or-pay-jiz/#ixzz355yPEeb8
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 
 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 
 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 
 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 
 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 
 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 

How embarresing again, how is that evidence from the beginnings of Islam, fucking hell what a fucking idiot,

there you go didge
No that is not there you go, I asked you evidence from the beginnings of islam, not what some extremists do, so now you are hinging on some modern extremists, when no Muslim Government does so, seriously you really do make yourself look a tit and on these moder examples of extremists, where are children forced to pay?
Take your time 
we see Muslims acting in the exact manner they were ordered to - taking the jizya from everyone without exception - both men and women

there is no logical reason to suggest that modern day Muslims are more extreme or more devout than their earlier counterparts, nor is there any evidence that backs up a claim that women were excluded
it gets worse for you if we take into account the fact that households and communities were collectively extorted - meaning everyone paid
i will ask you yet again
I keep telling you but you seem to be ignorant to listen 

the Muslims invaded the non Muslim country

who are the non Muslims paying to be protected from when the only people invading them are Muslims??

smelly_bandit wrote:no link to the original source material

why are you so scared to post the link??

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:no link to the original source material

why are you so scared to post the link??

 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 

There is plenty of links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pact_of_Umar

Whoops


So again, stop avoiding my questions you dummy 

So you are telling me now we do not pay taxes no matter the religion that goes towards our armed forces?
You see this is what is so funny, all paid taxes normally under any ruler at this time, no matter the religion, here the Muslim off something less than the normal tax and also exempt them from military service, I would like you to show me any equivalent for the time?

Evidence please for your claim on the tax being forced onto children, women and the elderly in the beginnings of Islam?

Take your time

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:

 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 

There is plenty of links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pact_of_Umar

Whoops


So again, stop avoiding my questions you dummy 

So you are telling me now we do not pay taxes no matter the religion that goes towards our armed forces?
You see this is what is so funny, all paid taxes normally under any ruler at this time, no matter the religion, here the Muslim off something less than the normal tax and also exempt them from military service, I would like you to show me any equivalent for the time?

Evidence please for your claim on the tax being forced onto children, women and the elderly in the beginnings of Islam?

Take your time

didge is broken
No he is smashing off the park and easily so

he has fallen into the "lets use loads of laughing smilies and repeat myself because i cant think anymore" tactic
who is ISIS and the MB protecting Christians from didge??
Fallicy association again, now according to smelly 
Again where are children forced to pay?

here is teh actual pact of umar didge
the pact that you have desperately avoided posting up
 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 
So bow you claim this is not a historical document, prove otherwise dummy


The “Pact of Umar” reflects the general teaching of Islam concerning non-Muslims, and accordingly, millions of Christians continue to live as second class citizens in Islamic countries.

The following is a translation of the pact:

***************

The Status of Non-Muslims Under Muslim Rule

We heard from ‘Abdul-Rahman Ibn Ghanam [died in year 78 H. 697 AD.] as follows: When Umar Ibn Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, accorded a peace to the Christians of Syria, we wrote to him as follows:

In the name of Allah, the Merciful and Compassionate. This is a letter to the servant of Allah Umar [ibn al-Khattab], Commander of the Faithful, from the Christians of such-and-such a city. When you came against us, we asked you for safe-conduct (aman) for ourselves, our descendants, our property, and the people of our community, and we undertook the following obligations toward you:

We shall not build, in our cities or in their neighborhood, new monasteries, Churches, convents, or monks’ cells, nor shall we repair, by day or by night, such of them as fall in ruins or are situated in the quarters of the Muslims.

We shall keep our gates wide open for passersby and travelers. We shall give board and lodging to all Muslims who pass our way for three days.

We shall not give shelter in our churches or in our dwellings to any spy, nor bide him from the Muslims.

We shall not teach the Qur’an to our children.

We shall not manifest our religion publicly nor convert anyone to it. We shall not prevent any of our kin from entering Islam if they wish it.

We shall show respect toward the Muslims, and we shall rise from our seats when they wish to sit.

We shall not seek to resemble the Muslims by imitating any of their garments, the qalansuwa, the turban, footwear.

We shall not adopt their kunyas.(the use of their epithets)

We shall not mount on saddles, nor shall we gird swords nor bear any kind of arms nor carry them on our- persons.

We shall not engrave Arabic inscriptions on our seals.

We shall not sell fermented drinks.

We shall clip the fronts of our heads.

We shall always dress in the same way wherever we may be, and we shall bind the belts round our waists.

We shall not display our crosses or our books in the roads or markets of the Muslims. We shall use only clappers in our churches very softly. We shall not raise our voices in our churches in any manner offending the honor of the Muslims.

We shall not parade carrying our palm branches [on Palm Sunday] or hold in public our Ba’ooth [Easter Monday’s prayer]

We shall not raise our voices at the burial of our dead.

We shall not show lights on any of the roads of the Muslims or in their markets. We shall not bury our dead near the Muslims.

We shall not take slaves who have been allotted to Muslims.

We shall not build houses overtopping the houses of the Muslims.

(When I brought the letter to Umar, he added, “And we shall not strike a Muslim. We accept these conditions for ourselves and for the people of our community, and in return we receive safe-conduct.

If we in any way violate these undertakings for which we ourselves stand surety, we forfeit our covenant [dhimma], and we become liable to the penalties for contumacy and sedition.

Umar Ibn Al-Khittab replied: Sign what they ask, but add two clauses and impose them in addition to those which they have undertaken. They are: “They shall not buy anyone made prisoner by the Muslims,” and “Whoever strikes a Muslim with deliberate intent shall forfeit the protection of this pact.”

From Al-Turtushi’s book, Siraj al-Muluk.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/the-pact-of-umar-who-wrote-it/

as you can see didge, there is nothing in there about excluding women and children from the jizya since it was extorted collectively

Didge wrote:The Second Caliph, Umar (634-644 A.C.)
(Hadeeth)
'Umar's Life
During his last illness Abu Bakr had conferred with his people, particularly the more eminent among them. After this meeting they chose 'Umar as his successor. 'Umar was born into a respected Quraish family thirteen years after the birth of Muhammad (peace be on him). Umar's family was known for its extensive knowledge of genealogy. When he grew up, 'Umar was proficient in this branch of knowledge as well as in swordsmanship, wrestling and the art of speaking. He also learned to read and write while still a child, a very rare thing in Mecca at that time. 'Umar earned his living as a merchant. His trade took him to many foreign lands and he met all kinds of people. This experience gave him an insight into the affairs and problems of men. 'Umar's personality was dynamic, self-assertive, frank and straight forward. He always spoke whatever was in his mind even if it displeased others.
'Umar was twenty-seven when the Prophet (peace be on him) proclaimed his mission. The ideas Muhammad was preaching enraged him as much as they did the other notables of Mecca. He was just as bitter against anyone accepting Islam as others among the Quraish. When his slave-girl accepted Islam he beat her until he himself was exhausted and told her, "I have stopped because I am tired, not out of pity for you." The story of his embracing Islam is an interesting one. One day, full of anger against the Prophet, he drew his sword and set out to kill him. A friend met him on the way. When 'Umar told him what he planned to do, his friend informed him that 'Umar's own sister, Fatima, and her husband had also accepted Islam. 'Umar went straight to his sister's house where he found her reading from pages of the Qur'an. He fell upon her and beat her mercilessly. Bruised and bleeding, she told her brother, "Umar, you can do what you like, but you cannot turn our hearts away from Islam." These words produced a strange effect upon 'Umar. What was this faith that made even weak women so strong of heart? He asked his sister to show him what she had been reading; he was at once moved to the core by the words of the Qur'an and immediately grasped their truth. He went straight to the house where the Prophet was staying and vowed allegiance to him.
Umar made no secret of his acceptance of Islam. He gathered the Muslims and offered prayers at the Ka'aba. This boldness and devotion of an influential citizen of Mecca raised the morale of the small community of Muslims. Nonetheless 'Umar was also subjected to privations, and when permission for emigration to Medina came, he also left Mecca. The soundness of 'Umar's judgment, his devotion to the Prophet (peace be on him), his outspokenness and uprightness won for him a trust and confidence from the Prophet which was second only to that given to Abu Bakr. The Prophet gave him the title 'Farooq' which means the 'Separator of Truth from False hood.' During the Caliphate of Abu Bakr, 'Umar was his closest assistant and adviser. When Abu Bakr died, all the people of Medina swore allegiance to 'Umar, and on 23 Jamadi-al-Akhir, 13 A.H., he was proclaimed Caliph.
'Umar's Caliphate
After taking charge of his office, 'Umar spoke to the Muslims of Medina:
"...O people, you have some rights on me which you can always claim. One of your rights is that if anyone of you comes to me with a claim, he should leave satisfied. Another of your rights is that you can demand that I take nothing unjustly from the revenues of the State. You can also demand that... I fortify your frontiers and do not put you into danger. It is also your right that if you go to battle I should look after your families as a father would while you are away. "O people, remain conscious of God, forgive me my faults and help me in my task. Assist me in enforcing what is good and forbidding what is evil. Advise me regarding the obligations that have been imposed upon me by God..."
The most notable feature of 'Umar's caliphate was the vast expansion of Islam. Apart from Arabia, Egypt, Iraq, Palestine and Iran also came under the protection of the Islamic government. But the greatness of 'Umar himself lies in the quality of his rule. He gave a practical meaning to the Qur'anic injunction:
"O you who believe, stand out firmly for justice as witnesses to God, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it concerns rich or poor, for God can best protect both." [4:135]
Once a woman brought a claim against the Caliph 'Umar. When 'Umar appeared on trial before the judge, the judge stood up as a sign of respect toward him. 'Umar reprimanded him, saying, "This is the first act of injustice you did to this woman!"
He insisted that his appointed governors live simple lives, keep no guard at their doors and be accessible to the people at all times, and he himself set the example for them. Many times foreign envoys and messengers sent to him by his generals found him resting under a palm tree or praying in the mosque among the people, and it was difficult for them to distinguish which man was the Caliph. He spent many a watchful night going about the streets of Medina to see whether anyone needed help or assistance. The general social and moral tone of the Muslim society at that time is well-illustrated by the words of an Egyptian who was sent to spy on the Muslims during their Egyptian campaign. He reported:
"I have seen a people, every one of whom loves death more than he loves life. They cultivate humility rather than pride. None is given to material ambitions. Their mode of living is simple... Their commander is their equal. They make no distinction between superior and inferior, between master and slave. When the time of prayer approaches, none remains behind..."
'Umar gave his government an administrative structure. Departments of treasury, army and public revenues were established. Regular salaries were set up for soldiers. A population census was held. Elaborate land surveys were conducted to assess equitable taxes. New cities were founded. The areas which came under his rule were divided into provinces and governors were appointed. New roads were laid, canals were lug and wayside hotels were built. Provision was made for he support of the poor and the needy from public funds. He defined, by precept and by example, the rights and privileges of non-Muslims, an example of which is the following contract with the Christians of Jerusalem: "This is the protection which the servant of God, 'Umar, the Ruler of the Believers has granted to the people of Eiliya [Jerusalem]. The protection is for their lives and properties, their churches and crosses, their sick and healthy and for all their coreligionists. Their churches shall not be used for habitation, nor shall they be demolished, nor shall any injury be done to them or to their compounds, or to their crosses, nor shall their properties be injured in any way. There shall be no compulsion for these people in the matter of religion, nor shall any of them suffer any injury on account of religion... Whatever is written herein is under the covenant of God and the responsibility of His Messenger, of the Caliphs and of the believers, and shall hold good as long as they pay Jizya [the tax for their defense] imposed on them."
Those non-Muslims who took part in defence together with the Muslims were exempted from paying Jizya, and when the Muslims had to retreat from a city whose non-Muslim citizens had paid this tax for their defence, the tax was returned to the non-Muslims. The old, the poor and the disabled of Muslims and non-Muslims alike were provided for from the public treasury and from the Zakat funds.
'Umar's Death
In 23 A.H., when Umar returned to Medina from Hajj; he raised his hands and prayed,
"O God! I am advanced in years, my bones are weary, my powers are declining, and the people for whom I am responsible have spread far and wide. Summon me back to Thyself, my lord!"
Some time later, when 'Umar went to the mosque to lead a prayer, a Magian named Abu Lulu Feroze, who had a grudge against 'Umar on a personal matter, attacked him with a dagger and stabbed him several times. Umar reeled and fell to the ground. When he learned that the assassin was a Magian, he sid, "Thank God he is not a Muslim."
'Umar died in the first week of Muharram, 24 A.H..



Looking even more embarrassing for smelly

smelly_bandit wrote:yes didge
we do pay taxes regardless of religion
however those taxes go towards the government
in Iraq and Egypt and elsewhere, the jizya is not an official tax being paid to the governments in return for protection
its an extortion tax taken from non Muslims by Muslims in return for "protection"
if the non Muslims don't pay then the Muslims kill them
so what we see is that the only protection the non Muslims need is from the Muslims themselves
this is true now and was true 1400 years ago, because that is what the hadith records show as being the accepted norm of things
this is why i keep asking you the question
if the Muslims are the ones doing the invading then who are the non Muslims needing to be protected from???
secondly didge
your version of the "pact of umar" is a fabrication
its doenst exist, i have provided you with the pact of umar as historians see it, and your version doenst appear anywhere  

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:yes didge
we do pay taxes regardless of religion
however those taxes go towards the government
in Iraq and Egypt and elsewhere, the jizya is not an official tax being paid to the governments in return for protection
its an extortion tax taken from non Muslims by Muslims in return for "protection"
if the non Muslims don't pay then the Muslims kill them
so what we see is that the only protection the non Muslims need is from the Muslims themselves
this is true now and was true 1400 years ago, because that is what the hadith records show as being the accepted norm of things
this is why i keep asking you the question
if the Muslims are the ones doing the invading then who are the non Muslims needing to be protected from???
secondly didge
your version of the "pact of umar" is a fabrication
its doenst exist, i have provided you with the pact of umar as historians see it, and your version doenst appear anywhere  

I have provided you with historical documentation that refutes your claim, showing, women and children elderly are exempt from paying thus your claim is false.
We also pay taxes to be protected, what do you think the armed forces are for, aggression or defense dummy?

So again


So you are telling me now we do not pay taxes no matter the religion that goes towards our armed forces?
You see this is what is so funny, all paid taxes normally under any ruler at this time, no matter the religion, here the Muslim off something less than the normal tax and also exempt them from military service, I would like you to show me any equivalent for the time?

Evidence please for your claim on the tax being forced onto children, women and the elderly in the beginnings of Islam?

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


I have provided you with historical documentation that refutes your claim, showing, women and children elderly are exempt from paying thus your claim is false.
We also pay taxes to be protected, what do you think the armed forces are for, aggression or defense dummy?

So again


So you are telling me now we do not pay taxes no matter the religion that goes towards our armed forces?
You see this is what is so funny, all paid taxes normally under any ruler at this time, no matter the religion, here the Muslim off something less than the normal tax and also exempt them from military service, I would like you to show me any equivalent for the time?

Evidence please for your claim on the tax being forced onto children, women and the elderly in the beginnings of Islam?

you're well and truly broken aren't you pal???

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

you're well and truly broken aren't you pal???

Oh dear, the usual smelly deflection when he has no answer.

That was easy

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


Oh dear, the usual smelly deflection when he has no answer.

That was easy

didge do you realize whats happening here??

have you cottoned on to what im doing??

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

didge do you realize whats happening here??

have you cottoned on to what im doing??

I always cotten onto you being a WUM, but you are so much fun, it is always a pleasure for me to entertain your stupidity

So now smelly proves even more how he deflects

That was easy

 ::D:: 

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


I always cotten onto you being a WUM, but you are so much fun, it is always a pleasure for me to entertain your stupidity

So now smelly proves even more how he deflects

That was easy

 ::D:: 

who is isis protecting the Christiana from didge??

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

who is isis protecting the Christiana from didge??

Who are the Christiana?

Again another modern example of extremists, where do they make children pay this smelly?

Where is your evidence from the beginnings of Islam?

Why do countless Muslim countries not have this Jiyza tax smell?

Take your time

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:

Who are the Christiana?

Again another modern example of extremists, where do they make children pay this smelly?

Where is your evidence from the beginnings of Islam?

Why do countless Muslim countries not have this Jiyza tax smell?

Take your time

yes didge it is indeed and example of how MODERN Muslims are extorting the jizya

unfortunately for you these examples are  are no different to how the jizya was extorted by muhhamd and his followers 1400 years ago

let me show you

Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."


Muslim (19:4294) -
When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai' except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them

invite them to three courses of action

Invite them to (accept) Islam

If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya.

If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them

the above establishes the examples of the procedure leading up the jizya

convert pay jizya or die

that is how it was done 1400 years ago

this is how it is being done 400 years later

Just over the weekend Syrian rebels went into a Christian man’s “shop and gave him three options: become Muslim; pay $70,000 as a tax levied on non-Muslims, known as jizya; or be killed along with his family,” Christian Science Monitor reported.

three options:

become Muslim;

pay $70,000 as a tax levied on non-Muslims, known as jizya

or be killed along with his family,

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/10/egypts-Muslim-brotherhood-convert-islam-or-pay-jiz/#ixzz355yPEeb8

1400 years ago

invite them to three courses of action

Invite them to (accept) Islam

If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya.

If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them



1400 years later

three options:

become Muslim;

pay $70,000 as a tax levied on non-Muslims, known as jizya

or be killed along with his family,


let me know if you want any more evidence  ::smthg:: 

smelly_bandit wrote:tee hee

smelly_bandit wrote:i see you have created another thread to try and bury this one

smelly_bandit wrote:i see you have created another thread to try and bury this one

Ben_Reilly wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:i see you have created another thread to try and bury this one

Just when I thought you couldn't get any dumber, Smelly  ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 

smelly_bandit wrote:oh look its the chuckle brothers

backing each other up

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:oh look its the chuckle brothers

backing each other up

No just laughing at a dummy, make himself look so utterly stupid

Score smelly ha ha

 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


No just laughing at a dummy, make himself look so utterly stupid

Score smelly ha ha

 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 

who is ISIS protecting the Christians from didge??

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

who is ISIS protecting the Christians from didge??

Oh is it wait many posts so you can evade answering my points again, after I made you look a dummy

Do they make children pay smelly?

So now fallacy argument again, do Isis represent all Muslims within Islam?

They clearly go against who pays the Jiyza how it was in the beginnings of Islam  


So again, post your evidence that in the beginnings of Islam, women, children and elderly had to pay the Jiyza


Take your time

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:

Oh is it wait many posts so you can evade answering my points again, after I made you look a dummy

Do they make children pay smelly?

So now fallacy argument again, do Isis represent all Muslims within Islam?

They clearly go against who pays the Jiyza how it was in the beginnings of Islam  


So again, post your evidence that in the beginnings of Islam, women, children and elderly had to pay the Jiyza


Take your time

who is ISIS protecting the Christians from didge
its a simple question
you claim the jizya is used by Muslims to provide security for non Muslims
so when ISIS takes the jizya from Iraqi Christians, who are they protecting the Christians from??

smelly_bandit wrote:what invaders didge??

in iraq its ISIS who are busy killing people

it ISIS who is taking the jizya from Christians

so who are ISIS protecting the Christians from, when it is ISIS who is doing the killing??

smelly_bandit wrote:you're desperate here aren't you didge??

in iraq ISIS are the invaders

they are also the ones taking the jizya from Christians in return for protection

so who are ISIS protecting the Christians from when it is ISIS who are killing Christians??

anyone want to help didge out here??

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:you're desperate here aren't you didge??

in iraq ISIS are the invaders

they are also the ones taking the jizya from Christians in return for protection

so who are ISIS protecting the Christians from when it is ISIS who are killing Christians??

anyone want to help didge out here??

No you are desperate and as seen cannot answer my points, you cannot even provide evidence for the beginnings of Islam showing all Non-Muslims had to pay, so again untill you answer my original points you have evaded I am going to keep making you look a right dummy

I am answering your point with these questions, what threat of invaders do we have smelly?

Why do we pay taxes for an armed force to protect us from invaders smelly?

I stated the Jiyza is used to as an exemption to have to fight, to protect people in that nation from invaders and the money is used to pay for an armed force. Just as you and everyone pays a tax today for an armed force that protects you from invaders, even though at present we have no threat of an invasion of anyone, so why do we pay taxes for an army here smelly?

Whoops

Do they make children pay smelly?

So now fallacy argument again, do Isis represent all Muslims within Islam?

They clearly go against who pays the Jiyza how it was in the beginnings of Islam  


So again, post your evidence that in the beginnings of Islam, women, children and elderly had to pay the Jiyza  

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


No you are desperate and as seen cannot answer my points, you cannot even provide evidence for the beginnings of Islam showing all Non-Muslims had to pay, so again untill you answer my original points you have evaded I am going to keep making you look a right dummy

I am answering your point with these questions, what threat of invaders do we have smelly?

Why do we pay taxes for an armed force to protect us from invaders smelly?

I stated the Jiyza is used to as an exemption to have to fight, to protect people in that nation from invaders and the money is used to pay for an armed force. Just as you and everyone pays a tax today for an armed force that protects you from invaders, even though at present we have no threat of an invasion of anyone, so why do we pay taxes for an army here smelly?

Whoops

Do they make children pay smelly?

So now fallacy argument again, do Isis represent all Muslims within Islam?

They clearly go against who pays the Jiyza how it was in the beginnings of Islam  


So again, post your evidence that in the beginnings of Islam, women, children and elderly had to pay the Jiyza  

didge you dont have any points to answer fella
I do, you just cannot answer them as per usual

you're entire argument is now relying on the following
you're stubborn insistence that the modern examples of ISIS are somehow different to what Muhammad and his followers did 1400 years ago
It is different as proven, it is also different to many modern Muslim countries, so your argument hinges on an extremist group which is comical  

they arent, i have shown you how the modern examples are identical to the old ones using real life examples that are happening in the world we live in
 ://?roflmao?/: Really that is news to me when you have failed to provide any evidence from the beginnings of Islam, seriously how delusional are you smelly?

you ignore this fact entirely since it doenst fit your argument and youre too scared to even mention ISIS
I not scared to mention them and even asked you which you failed to answer if they charge the Jiyza to children, which is another point you have failed to answer because you know they do not charge children, which further throws a spanner in your argument

secondly you are asking me to comment on a fabricate piece of history that you have invented, you have claimed that women are exempt form the jizya, there is no evidence to support this claim since it is entirely fabricated
 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: Invented, so your views on Muhammad you take as gospel, must be the same based on that logic then smelly? 
Whoops, I have shown you historical documents, which show women, children an the elderly were not charged this tax, you on the other hand can only provide some modern examples of extremists, that is hilarious

what threat of invaders do we face??
You tell me, that is what I am asking you, and yet we have no threat of an invasion and pay taxes to up keep an armed force to protect us from an invasion the point again of which you cannot answer 

we don't, however if we stop paying our taxes the army will not come and kill us the way Muslim do to non Muslims
Really, is that we we still have armed forces in Northern Ireland then smelly? Is that why there is still a threat from the Real IRA smelly?
Oh dear, just burst your bubble yet again

you keep avoiding the issue
No that is you, not once have you answered any of my points, you have avoided them like the plague because you have nothing to back your view other than some extremists, which shows how pitiful your claim is 

Muslims invade a land and then demand a protection payment form the inhabitants of that land in return for safety
Just like any invading army has always done, you show me nations that have invaded others and not asked them to pay taxes?
Take your time

safety from who??
Other hostile nations

it is the Muslims who have invaded and threaten the safety of the inhabitants  in the first place
Is it? How did Muslims invade Iraq, when they are residents of Iraq?

ISIS are the ones killing people in iraq
Just like we have the Real IRA killing people in the UK

ISIS are demanding the jizya from christains
Just as any invading force demands its subjects to pay taxes

if the Christians don't pay ISIS then ISIS kills them
That is because they are extremist nutballs, does this happen in other Muslim countries back by the Government, show me people who have been convicted by the Government and then executed for not paying their taxes?

so who is ISIS protecting the Christians from??

smelly_bandit wrote:1400 years ago

invite them to three courses of action

Invite them to (accept) Islam

If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya.

If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them



1400 years later

three options:

become Muslim;

pay $70,000 as a tax levied on non-Muslims, known as jizya

or be killed along with his family,


let me know if you want any more evidence  

smelly_bandit wrote:anyone seeing this???

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:anyone seeing this???

lol smelly seeking help, ha ha ha

Again  post your evidence that in the beginnings of Islam, women, children and elderly had to pay the Jiyza?

Do ISIS make children pay smelly?

Take your time

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


lol smelly seeking help, ha ha ha

Again  post your evidence that in the beginnings of Islam, women, children and elderly had to pay the Jiyza?

Do ISIS make children pay smelly?

Take your time

ISIS are the evidence didge

their actions are perfectly in line with the example of Muhammad and his followers  

 ::D:: 

and yes didge ISIS are making children pay

smelly_bandit wrote:there you go didge

the qur'an and hadiths that record the actions of Muhammad and his followers from 1400 years ago

identical to what ISIS is doing in iraq

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:there you go didge

the qur'an and hadiths that record the actions of Muhammad and his followers from 1400 years ago

identical to what ISIS is doing in iraq

 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 


You mean verses you misquote?

Where does it say women and children and the elderly have to pay the Jiyza?

take your time