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'I actually quit the CIA for 3 days in 2004. I was exhausted ...'

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Post by Ben Reilly Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:42 pm

Ten years ago this week, the U.S. invaded Iraq, citing intelligence that turned out to be bogus. I had to work on some of it — and I also had to work on keeping the really, really terrible versions of it out of our analysis.

Specifically, I was a CIA analyst working in the Counterterrorism Center in the overburdened days after 9/11. As analysts, we spend most of our time identifying burgeoning issues based on communications intercepts, reports from CIA case officers, imagery from satellites, accounts from other governments, and piecing together a story.

What we don’t do routinely is tie one catastrophe to another. But that was exactly what I was asked to do in November 2002, shortly after Congress voted to authorize war with Iraq. That war was predicated on Saddam Hussein’s (ultimately nonexistent) stockpiles of deadly weapons, but lurking in the background was the assertion that he’d pass them on to al-Qaida. At the CIA’s Iraq Branch in the Counterterrorism Center, we didn’t think Saddam had any substantial ties to al-Qaida. But soon we found ourselves fielding questions from determined Bush administration officials about whether Saddam was tied to 9/11.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/03/iraq-intelligence/
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Post by Lurker Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:29 pm

I can't understand bullheaded conservatives that still believe the Iraq war was was justified. It may be the biggest blunder the US ever committed - and that is saying a lot. My first reaction to the news that Skippy McDumbass was hell bent on invading the WRONG country, I yelled , "N-0-0-0-0-!!!!", and then I felt a huge feeling of embarrassment for America. I felt THAT a lot during the 4th Reich of the Bush Administration. Incompetence was a daily occurrence.

The Bush Administration worshipers (GOP hardliners) still to this day admire them for invading Iraq. It's lunacy, IMO. It was bullshit intelligence and they all knew it was. Colin Powell knew it was pack of lies, yet he still defends the decision to destroy a sovereign nation for no reason even now. It's madness.

Here is a good story on the faulty intel:

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/03/18/selling-the-iraq-war-experts-knew-the-intel-was-faulty-why-didnt-they-blow-the-whistle/
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Post by veya_victaous Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:33 am

and look at what good it has done the US. Taken out the strongest Secular nation in the Middle East and suprise surprise it is now a breeding ground for Radical Islamic Extermists.
The Invasion of Iraq was a good thing for those that hate what the USA stands for, because Saddam stood for almost the same thing (secular, freedom of religion, capitalist) . Alqueda second biggest enemy was Saddam (USA being number 1) he was actually calling them terrorist and fighting them years before the USA did. some of the 'crimes agaisnt humanity' he commited are against Alqueda supported groups.
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Post by Ben Reilly Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:33 pm

Very good point, Veya. But we couldn't get that across to Republicans here in the States, because in their minds, everybody from the Middle East is a fundamentalist Muslim who hates the U.S. I'm not saying Saddam was fond of the U.S., but the fact is, while he was a brute, he wasn't stupid. The Iraqi military had sarin gas stores during the first Gulf War that they never used -- because Saddam was smart enough to know what would happen in retaliation if he used stuff like that against the U.S.

He was never going to antagonize the U.S. to that extent, let alone anything as ridiculous as strike the U.S. or its allies with nuclear weapons, as the Bush administration asserted. What Saddam was all about was the public anti-U.S. rhetoric and the rewards to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers, hoping that would up his cred with all but the most radical terrorists, and using the nasty stuff he bought from the U.S. on his own people insurgents and al-Qaeda that were dedicated to toppling his dictatorship.

Never forget:

'I actually quit the CIA for 3 days in 2004. I was exhausted ...' Donald+Rumsfeld+with+Saddam+Hussein+National+Security+Archive

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Post by Lurker Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:17 pm

"I didn't like Saddam Hussein, but he didn't bother the Christians," said Rana, 29, after a church service in London. "He was a dictator. When he went, the gangs came from everywhere."

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/19/17357746-people-turned-on-christians-persecuted-iraqi-minority-reflects-on-life-after-saddam?lite

Hard core Republicans just don't have a clue about how Muslim countries work. Western Democracy at the end of a gun does not work. Bush destroyed Iraq for centuries to come and has made Iraq's Christians' lives miserable.

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Post by DrSchool Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:35 am

I have childhood friends that I can not talk to about Bush and Iraq because they are still convinced that Bush was good for America and "world freedom". I attempted to see their point of view but my head won't fit that far up my arss, and my brain starts hemorrhaging at the lack of logic and intelligence.

It is difficult to say which was the US's biggest f*ckup - The Vietnam war or the whole Iraq clusterfuck. Cambodia and Laos still haven't recovered completely from America's war crimes committed during the Vietnam war.
I also hate the names they use these days for wars; like "Operation Enduring Freedom" ...they should use more appropriate names like "Operation Slaughterhouse" or "Operation Devastation" or "Operation Black Gold" "Operation Texas Tea" "Operation Oil" "Operation Halliburton"
When the hell will the govt start to learn from their mistakes?

If you put Bush and Nixon/Kissinger on a stage and said I could only kick one of them in the nuts for 5 minutes.... I still haven't decided who I would choose.
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Post by Ben Reilly Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:25 pm

Ah, Laos -- the most heavily bombed country in the history of the world, ever. As Wikipedia puts it:

It has been reported that Laos was hit by an average of one B‑52 bombload every eight minutes, 24 hours a day, between 1964 and 1973. U.S. bombers dropped more ordnance on Laos in this period than was dropped during the whole of the World War II. Of the 260 million bombs that rained down, particularly on Xiangkhouang Province on the Plain of Jars, some 80 million failed to explode, leaving a deadly legacy.[19] Laos is the most heavily bombed country, per capita, in the world.

One more quote: "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." -- George W. Bush

I think if I were to try to identify the biggest flaw in our republic, it would be that the voting public is not the well-informed, savvy bunch the Founding Fathers imagined them to be. I think it is getting slightly better in the Internet age -- but the internet also helps spread a lot of B.S. Instead of being a group of independent thinkers, we the people tend far too often to be susceptible to groupthink, to be swayed by appeals to patriotism and by fearmongering, and to be too trusting and/or lazy-brained. I think the saying "People tend to get the government they deserve" applies here -- we're like people who leave our doors and windows unlocked at night and then complain when we're robbed.
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Post by kmazz Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:48 pm

You mostly need to wait for the current old generation to die off. The problem is they are quite resilient due to improved medicine and you do not just lose your right to vote when you turn 65. Instead you still get to vote all the way till 10 mins before you croak at the vibrant age of 92. And even if you are on the breather, you can still proxy your vote to some douche who will go and register your vote for you, so you can still screw us from beyond the grave if you choose to. And old people always do choose to screw us.

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Post by kmazz Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:49 pm

note: Some old people are extremely well informed (than most of us) but even they, would be the First in line to wait for their generation to die off.

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