Stop And Search 'Often Only Happens Because The Person Is Black', Home Secretary Theresa May Says

Tommy Monk wrote:You didn't answer my questions and you ask a load of irrelevant ones.
I answered your questions you did not answer mine or Irns, we are exposing your claim to an IQ of 140
 ://?roflmao?/: 
Firstly....

I'm still not sure if you lefties are actually; (a) denying the high black crime rates, or (b) admitting it's true but just trying to excuse/justify/accommodate it through your socio-economic waffle???
Already answered, next

Please clarify your position on this?
As;
(a) goes against all the available statistical evidence,
(b) regardless of the 'causes' of crime, the admitted high and disproportionate levels of violent crime justifies the level of stop and search going on in these areas.
Again you ignore the stats are wrong due to the disparity of stop and search, arrests and prison sentencing, thus how is anyone able to gauge stats, clearly racially biased against blacks which have not responded to.
To answer his his point a, he has had countless reasons on this which has has ignored at every level where whites are not even being arrested for similar crimes to Blacks and the same with sentencing and how even though whites commit vastly more crimes, they are in comparison 28 times less likely to be stopped, that is astounding that there is a massive disparity when they already commit vastly the majority of crime. Matti ignores this at every opportunity and even waits until people go offline to reply, that is the funniest. He also thus ignores many blacks are being targeted for violent crimes, yet we have staggering figures on domestic violence for violent crimes. Now I am not sure if Matti can do the maths, but is he suggesting where we know one in 3 women in this nation are victims they are in mass multiple relationships with black men? Again that would be absurd, when we know the vast majority would be a White partner. This is another area the Police have done little with violent crime, again showing areas where it is clear whites would be as all the evidence presented so far shows are getting away with crimes.
So why are you ignoring this evidence

And secondly.....
In an area with high crime and a massive amount of this crime is disproportionately carried out by blacks, who should the police be stopping and searching?
Is it though? Again Police you ignore the stats are wrong due to the disparity of stop and search, arrests and prison sentencing, thus how is anyone able to gauge stats, clearly racially biased against blacks which have not responded to. So why have you not addressed this issue not once is this debate?

Why do you also ignore these other issues I have highlighted to you on violent crime

31% women and 18% men have experienced domestic abuse since
the age of 16 years. This amounts to 5 million women and 2.9 million

In 2011/12, the police reported nearly 800,000 incidents of domestic
Domestic violence conviction rates in the five years to 2011 stood at just 6.5% of incidents reported to police
The police recorded a total of 53,700 sexual offences across England and Wales, 71% of which were rape of serious sexual assault.
In 2011, 2,873 men were prosecuted for rape and 40% (1153) were
convicted
Now we know the Police is not even arresting as many Whites, let alone we know also the massive disparity with convictions, this is proven even more by the poor record as seen on rape and domestic violence.

We are talking about stop and search. Not crime rates in Glasgow compared to London.
Yes we are talking about stop and search which will also include Glasgow because it is part of the UK, where again you must be able to input the stop in search from there as well, being as it has high crime rates, so you thus have now made yourself an idiot, you want to talk about stop and search and you though can ask questions about violent crimes in London but not Glasgow?
One moment
 ://?roflmao?/: 
Hilarious, Matti trying to dictate the debate making himself a hypocrite ha ha, what an own goal, so you need to answer the question
But I'm sure that most crimes are committed by young white Scottish men in Glasgow, and the police will be stopping and searching young white Scottish men, so is that racist?
Are they though, is that an assumption again?

You keep asking for me to provide a biological scientific study that doesn't exist.
Does it not, I am afraid you are wrong, because there is studies on races and how humans are, you though know this and thus avoid it, so you have failed to answer thus concluding you have no evidence, when we know humans are biologically the same, thus negating any factor that races would be criminally different due to their brains being biologically the same makeup, oh dear, so what does that live us with Matti?
Social factors which is what you also ignore, so why do you ignore social factors behind crime?

We are not talking about domestic violence or rapes, which are dealt with by a completely different type of policeing.
 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 
Really, that is news to me, never heard anything so stupid in my life before, they are dealt with by the Police are they not, there are sub divisions, but domestic violence is part if the violent crime stats and even worse are you now trying to down play domestic violence? I mean you are the one always telling me Asians are too afraid to come forward with domestic violence, so we are left with the vast majority having to be white, which you avoid also, so why is it so many whites beat up women with violence?

The amount being stopped are higher but proportionate to the areas and crime levels there, the descriptions of the alleged perpetrators being mostly young black men, the types/level of violent crimes involved also require additional policing and a more hands on and direct approach, something you again fail to understand.
Again you ignore the fact we know white criminals are less likely to be caught with stop and search because they are 28 times less likely to be stopped, they are 4 times less in being arrested and 20% less in receiving a prison sentence, showing a massive disparity as already demonstrated, you though choose to ignore this basing the stats as they are not how they have been racially flawed because of Police racial bais. Thus you need to recognize as the Ministry of Justice and Government have done of this massive issue, why have you not done so  
Violent street crime is dealt with differently than other types of crime.
 ://?roflmao?/: Proof Matti is a hypocrite, I thought we were talking about stop and search, so which is it then, how about domestic violence and violent rape or do they not count either then?

If there is a lot of stabbingp or drug crime then stop and search is used more see if people are carrying weapons/drugs and to deter people from doing so.
There is and has been in Glasgow for years an in London both for hundreds of years, espcially in poverty areas, strange that is it not but you discount this even where it is majority white, so why does that show clearly your view on blacks goes out of the window when we find the same in majority white areas with high knife and gun crimes?

The police are there as a response to crime and levels, not there to be a nuisance and harass innocent people.
Yet they harass many innocent black people with stop and search 28 times more so than whites, even though whites commit vastly more crimes, yet you are happy with this even though even using the flawed stats, whites should be stopped and searched 28 times more to balance out this disparity

If they weren't there and didn't give a fuck, then people would still be moaning that they were racist, not bothering in those areas 'cos they is black'!!!
I'm sure the victims of crime are happy the police are so active in those high crime areas, and any other decent people would not mind the minor inconvenience of being stopped if they were innocent and it helped the police to find criminals, so it really makes me wonder who all these people are who complain and are so upset with police catching criminals and making the area a better and safer place for everyone....????
Really are the victims happy Matti, then why is it above many rape and domestic violence victims see little justice, can you explain how they are happy with that Matti?

Tommy Monk wrote:You didn't answer my questions and you ask a load of irrelevant ones.
I answered your questions you did not answer mine or Irns, we are exposing your claim to an IQ of 140
 ://?roflmao?/: 
Firstly....

I'm still not sure if you lefties are actually; (a) denying the high black crime rates, or (b) admitting it's true but just trying to excuse/justify/accommodate it through your socio-economic waffle???
Already answered, next

Please clarify your position on this?
As;
(a) goes against all the available statistical evidence,
(b) regardless of the 'causes' of crime, the admitted high and disproportionate levels of violent crime justifies the level of stop and search going on in these areas.
Again you ignore the stats are wrong due to the disparity of stop and search, arrests and prison sentencing, thus how is anyone able to gauge stats, clearly racially biased against blacks which have not responded to.
To answer his his point a, he has had countless reasons on this which has has ignored at every level where whites are not even being arrested for similar crimes to Blacks and the same with sentencing and how even though whites commit vastly more crimes, they are in comparison 28 times less likely to be stopped, that is astounding that there is a massive disparity when they already commit vastly the majority of crime. Matti ignores this at every opportunity and even waits until people go offline to reply, that is the funniest. He also thus ignores many blacks are being targeted for violent crimes, yet we have staggering figures on domestic violence for violent crimes. Now I am not sure if Matti can do the maths, but is he suggesting where we know one in 3 women in this nation are victims they are in mass multiple relationships with black men? Again that would be absurd, when we know the vast majority would be a White partner. This is another area the Police have done little with violent crime, again showing areas where it is clear whites would be as all the evidence presented so far shows are getting away with crimes.
So why are you ignoring this evidence

And secondly.....
In an area with high crime and a massive amount of this crime is disproportionately carried out by blacks, who should the police be stopping and searching?
Is it though? Again Police you ignore the stats are wrong due to the disparity of stop and search, arrests and prison sentencing, thus how is anyone able to gauge stats, clearly racially biased against blacks which have not responded to. So why have you not addressed this issue not once is this debate?

Why do you also ignore these other issues I have highlighted to you on violent crime

31% women and 18% men have experienced domestic abuse since
the age of 16 years. This amounts to 5 million women and 2.9 million

In 2011/12, the police reported nearly 800,000 incidents of domestic
Domestic violence conviction rates in the five years to 2011 stood at just 6.5% of incidents reported to police
The police recorded a total of 53,700 sexual offences across England and Wales, 71% of which were rape of serious sexual assault.
In 2011, 2,873 men were prosecuted for rape and 40% (1153) were
convicted
Now we know the Police is not even arresting as many Whites, let alone we know also the massive disparity with convictions, this is proven even more by the poor record as seen on rape and domestic violence.

We are talking about stop and search. Not crime rates in Glasgow compared to London.
Yes we are talking about stop and search which will also include Glasgow because it is part of the UK, where again you must be able to input the stop in search from there as well, being as it has high crime rates, so you thus have now made yourself an idiot, you want to talk about stop and search and you though can ask questions about violent crimes in London but not Glasgow?
One moment
 ://?roflmao?/: 
Hilarious, Matti trying to dictate the debate making himself a hypocrite ha ha, what an own goal, so you need to answer the question
But I'm sure that most crimes are committed by young white Scottish men in Glasgow, and the police will be stopping and searching young white Scottish men, so is that racist?
Are they though, is that an assumption again?

You keep asking for me to provide a biological scientific study that doesn't exist.
Does it not, I am afraid you are wrong, because there is studies on races and how humans are, you though know this and thus avoid it, so you have failed to answer thus concluding you have no evidence, when we know humans are biologically the same, thus negating any factor that races would be criminally different due to their brains being biologically the same makeup, oh dear, so what does that live us with Matti?
Social factors which is what you also ignore, so why do you ignore social factors behind crime?

We are not talking about domestic violence or rapes, which are dealt with by a completely different type of policeing.
 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 
Really, that is news to me, never heard anything so stupid in my life before, they are dealt with by the Police are they not, there are sub divisions, but domestic violence is part if the violent crime stats and even worse are you now trying to down play domestic violence? I mean you are the one always telling me Asians are too afraid to come forward with domestic violence, so we are left with the vast majority having to be white, which you avoid also, so why is it so many whites beat up women with violence?

The amount being stopped are higher but proportionate to the areas and crime levels there, the descriptions of the alleged perpetrators being mostly young black men, the types/level of violent crimes involved also require additional policing and a more hands on and direct approach, something you again fail to understand.
Again you ignore the fact we know white criminals are less likely to be caught with stop and search because they are 28 times less likely to be stopped, they are 4 times less in being arrested and 20% less in receiving a prison sentence, showing a massive disparity as already demonstrated, you though choose to ignore this basing the stats as they are not how they have been racially flawed because of Police racial bais. Thus you need to recognize as the Ministry of Justice and Government have done of this massive issue, why have you not done so  
Violent street crime is dealt with differently than other types of crime.
 ://?roflmao?/: Proof Matti is a hypocrite, I thought we were talking about stop and search, so which is it then, how about domestic violence and violent rape or do they not count either then?

If there is a lot of stabbingp or drug crime then stop and search is used more see if people are carrying weapons/drugs and to deter people from doing so.
There is and has been in Glasgow for years an in London both for hundreds of years, espcially in poverty areas, strange that is it not but you discount this even where it is majority white, so why does that show clearly your view on blacks goes out of the window when we find the same in majority white areas with high knife and gun crimes?

The police are there as a response to crime and levels, not there to be a nuisance and harass innocent people.
Yet they harass many innocent black people with stop and search 28 times more so than whites, even though whites commit vastly more crimes, yet you are happy with this even though even using the flawed stats, whites should be stopped and searched 28 times more to balance out this disparity

If they weren't there and didn't give a fuck, then people would still be moaning that they were racist, not bothering in those areas 'cos they is black'!!!
I'm sure the victims of crime are happy the police are so active in those high crime areas, and any other decent people would not mind the minor inconvenience of being stopped if they were innocent and it helped the police to find criminals, so it really makes me wonder who all these people are who complain and are so upset with police catching criminals and making the area a better and safer place for everyone....????
Really are the victims happy Matti, then why is it above many rape and domestic violence victims see little justice, can you explain how they are happy with that Matti?

Tommy Monk wrote:You didn't answer my questions and you ask a load of irrelevant ones.
I answered your questions you did not answer mine or Irns, we are exposing your claim to an IQ of 140
 ://?roflmao?/: 
Firstly....

I'm still not sure if you lefties are actually; (a) denying the high black crime rates, or (b) admitting it's true but just trying to excuse/justify/accommodate it through your socio-economic waffle???
Already answered, next

Please clarify your position on this?
As;
(a) goes against all the available statistical evidence,
(b) regardless of the 'causes' of crime, the admitted high and disproportionate levels of violent crime justifies the level of stop and search going on in these areas.
Again you ignore the stats are wrong due to the disparity of stop and search, arrests and prison sentencing, thus how is anyone able to gauge stats, clearly racially biased against blacks which have not responded to.
To answer his his point a, he has had countless reasons on this which has has ignored at every level where whites are not even being arrested for similar crimes to Blacks and the same with sentencing and how even though whites commit vastly more crimes, they are in comparison 28 times less likely to be stopped, that is astounding that there is a massive disparity when they already commit vastly the majority of crime. Matti ignores this at every opportunity and even waits until people go offline to reply, that is the funniest. He also thus ignores many blacks are being targeted for violent crimes, yet we have staggering figures on domestic violence for violent crimes. Now I am not sure if Matti can do the maths, but is he suggesting where we know one in 3 women in this nation are victims they are in mass multiple relationships with black men? Again that would be absurd, when we know the vast majority would be a White partner. This is another area the Police have done little with violent crime, again showing areas where it is clear whites would be as all the evidence presented so far shows are getting away with crimes.
So why are you ignoring this evidence

And secondly.....
In an area with high crime and a massive amount of this crime is disproportionately carried out by blacks, who should the police be stopping and searching?
Is it though? Again Police you ignore the stats are wrong due to the disparity of stop and search, arrests and prison sentencing, thus how is anyone able to gauge stats, clearly racially biased against blacks which have not responded to. So why have you not addressed this issue not once is this debate?

Why do you also ignore these other issues I have highlighted to you on violent crime

31% women and 18% men have experienced domestic abuse since
the age of 16 years. This amounts to 5 million women and 2.9 million

In 2011/12, the police reported nearly 800,000 incidents of domestic
Domestic violence conviction rates in the five years to 2011 stood at just 6.5% of incidents reported to police
The police recorded a total of 53,700 sexual offences across England and Wales, 71% of which were rape of serious sexual assault.
In 2011, 2,873 men were prosecuted for rape and 40% (1153) were
convicted
Now we know the Police is not even arresting as many Whites, let alone we know also the massive disparity with convictions, this is proven even more by the poor record as seen on rape and domestic violence.

We are talking about stop and search. Not crime rates in Glasgow compared to London.
Yes we are talking about stop and search which will also include Glasgow because it is part of the UK, where again you must be able to input the stop in search from there as well, being as it has high crime rates, so you thus have now made yourself an idiot, you want to talk about stop and search and you though can ask questions about violent crimes in London but not Glasgow?
One moment
 ://?roflmao?/: 
Hilarious, Matti trying to dictate the debate making himself a hypocrite ha ha, what an own goal, so you need to answer the question
But I'm sure that most crimes are committed by young white Scottish men in Glasgow, and the police will be stopping and searching young white Scottish men, so is that racist?
Are they though, is that an assumption again?

You keep asking for me to provide a biological scientific study that doesn't exist.
Does it not, I am afraid you are wrong, because there is studies on races and how humans are, you though know this and thus avoid it, so you have failed to answer thus concluding you have no evidence, when we know humans are biologically the same, thus negating any factor that races would be criminally different due to their brains being biologically the same makeup, oh dear, so what does that live us with Matti?
Social factors which is what you also ignore, so why do you ignore social factors behind crime?

We are not talking about domestic violence or rapes, which are dealt with by a completely different type of policeing.
 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 
Really, that is news to me, never heard anything so stupid in my life before, they are dealt with by the Police are they not, there are sub divisions, but domestic violence is part if the violent crime stats and even worse are you now trying to down play domestic violence? I mean you are the one always telling me Asians are too afraid to come forward with domestic violence, so we are left with the vast majority having to be white, which you avoid also, so why is it so many whites beat up women with violence?

The amount being stopped are higher but proportionate to the areas and crime levels there, the descriptions of the alleged perpetrators being mostly young black men, the types/level of violent crimes involved also require additional policing and a more hands on and direct approach, something you again fail to understand.
Again you ignore the fact we know white criminals are less likely to be caught with stop and search because they are 28 times less likely to be stopped, they are 4 times less in being arrested and 20% less in receiving a prison sentence, showing a massive disparity as already demonstrated, you though choose to ignore this basing the stats as they are not how they have been racially flawed because of Police racial bais. Thus you need to recognize as the Ministry of Justice and Government have done of this massive issue, why have you not done so  
Violent street crime is dealt with differently than other types of crime.
 ://?roflmao?/: Proof Matti is a hypocrite, I thought we were talking about stop and search, so which is it then, how about domestic violence and violent rape or do they not count either then?

If there is a lot of stabbingp or drug crime then stop and search is used more see if people are carrying weapons/drugs and to deter people from doing so.
There is and has been in Glasgow for years an in London both for hundreds of years, espcially in poverty areas, strange that is it not but you discount this even where it is majority white, so why does that show clearly your view on blacks goes out of the window when we find the same in majority white areas with high knife and gun crimes?

The police are there as a response to crime and levels, not there to be a nuisance and harass innocent people.
Yet they harass many innocent black people with stop and search 28 times more so than whites, even though whites commit vastly more crimes, yet you are happy with this even though even using the flawed stats, whites should be stopped and searched 28 times more to balance out this disparity

If they weren't there and didn't give a fuck, then people would still be moaning that they were racist, not bothering in those areas 'cos they is black'!!!
I'm sure the victims of crime are happy the police are so active in those high crime areas, and any other decent people would not mind the minor inconvenience of being stopped if they were innocent and it helped the police to find criminals, so it really makes me wonder who all these people are who complain and are so upset with police catching criminals and making the area a better and safer place for everyone....????
Really are the victims happy Matti, then why is it above many rape and domestic violence victims see little justice, can you explain how they are happy with that Matti?

Tommy Monk wrote:You didn't answer my questions and you ask a load of irrelevant ones.
I answered your questions you did not answer mine or Irns, we are exposing your claim to an IQ of 140
 ://?roflmao?/: 
Firstly....

I'm still not sure if you lefties are actually; (a) denying the high black crime rates, or (b) admitting it's true but just trying to excuse/justify/accommodate it through your socio-economic waffle???
Already answered, next

Please clarify your position on this?
As;
(a) goes against all the available statistical evidence,
(b) regardless of the 'causes' of crime, the admitted high and disproportionate levels of violent crime justifies the level of stop and search going on in these areas.
Again you ignore the stats are wrong due to the disparity of stop and search, arrests and prison sentencing, thus how is anyone able to gauge stats, clearly racially biased against blacks which have not responded to.
To answer his his point a, he has had countless reasons on this which has has ignored at every level where whites are not even being arrested for similar crimes to Blacks and the same with sentencing and how even though whites commit vastly more crimes, they are in comparison 28 times less likely to be stopped, that is astounding that there is a massive disparity when they already commit vastly the majority of crime. Matti ignores this at every opportunity and even waits until people go offline to reply, that is the funniest. He also thus ignores many blacks are being targeted for violent crimes, yet we have staggering figures on domestic violence for violent crimes. Now I am not sure if Matti can do the maths, but is he suggesting where we know one in 3 women in this nation are victims they are in mass multiple relationships with black men? Again that would be absurd, when we know the vast majority would be a White partner. This is another area the Police have done little with violent crime, again showing areas where it is clear whites would be as all the evidence presented so far shows are getting away with crimes.
So why are you ignoring this evidence

And secondly.....
In an area with high crime and a massive amount of this crime is disproportionately carried out by blacks, who should the police be stopping and searching?
Is it though? Again Police you ignore the stats are wrong due to the disparity of stop and search, arrests and prison sentencing, thus how is anyone able to gauge stats, clearly racially biased against blacks which have not responded to. So why have you not addressed this issue not once is this debate?

Why do you also ignore these other issues I have highlighted to you on violent crime

31% women and 18% men have experienced domestic abuse since
the age of 16 years. This amounts to 5 million women and 2.9 million

In 2011/12, the police reported nearly 800,000 incidents of domestic
Domestic violence conviction rates in the five years to 2011 stood at just 6.5% of incidents reported to police
The police recorded a total of 53,700 sexual offences across England and Wales, 71% of which were rape of serious sexual assault.
In 2011, 2,873 men were prosecuted for rape and 40% (1153) were
convicted
Now we know the Police is not even arresting as many Whites, let alone we know also the massive disparity with convictions, this is proven even more by the poor record as seen on rape and domestic violence.

We are talking about stop and search. Not crime rates in Glasgow compared to London.
Yes we are talking about stop and search which will also include Glasgow because it is part of the UK, where again you must be able to input the stop in search from there as well, being as it has high crime rates, so you thus have now made yourself an idiot, you want to talk about stop and search and you though can ask questions about violent crimes in London but not Glasgow?
One moment
 ://?roflmao?/: 
Hilarious, Matti trying to dictate the debate making himself a hypocrite ha ha, what an own goal, so you need to answer the question
But I'm sure that most crimes are committed by young white Scottish men in Glasgow, and the police will be stopping and searching young white Scottish men, so is that racist?
Are they though, is that an assumption again?

You keep asking for me to provide a biological scientific study that doesn't exist.
Does it not, I am afraid you are wrong, because there is studies on races and how humans are, you though know this and thus avoid it, so you have failed to answer thus concluding you have no evidence, when we know humans are biologically the same, thus negating any factor that races would be criminally different due to their brains being biologically the same makeup, oh dear, so what does that live us with Matti?
Social factors which is what you also ignore, so why do you ignore social factors behind crime?

We are not talking about domestic violence or rapes, which are dealt with by a completely different type of policeing.
 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 
Really, that is news to me, never heard anything so stupid in my life before, they are dealt with by the Police are they not, there are sub divisions, but domestic violence is part if the violent crime stats and even worse are you now trying to down play domestic violence? I mean you are the one always telling me Asians are too afraid to come forward with domestic violence, so we are left with the vast majority having to be white, which you avoid also, so why is it so many whites beat up women with violence?

The amount being stopped are higher but proportionate to the areas and crime levels there, the descriptions of the alleged perpetrators being mostly young black men, the types/level of violent crimes involved also require additional policing and a more hands on and direct approach, something you again fail to understand.
Again you ignore the fact we know white criminals are less likely to be caught with stop and search because they are 28 times less likely to be stopped, they are 4 times less in being arrested and 20% less in receiving a prison sentence, showing a massive disparity as already demonstrated, you though choose to ignore this basing the stats as they are not how they have been racially flawed because of Police racial bais. Thus you need to recognize as the Ministry of Justice and Government have done of this massive issue, why have you not done so  
Violent street crime is dealt with differently than other types of crime.
 ://?roflmao?/: Proof Matti is a hypocrite, I thought we were talking about stop and search, so which is it then, how about domestic violence and violent rape or do they not count either then?

If there is a lot of stabbingp or drug crime then stop and search is used more see if people are carrying weapons/drugs and to deter people from doing so.
There is and has been in Glasgow for years an in London both for hundreds of years, espcially in poverty areas, strange that is it not but you discount this even where it is majority white, so why does that show clearly your view on blacks goes out of the window when we find the same in majority white areas with high knife and gun crimes?

The police are there as a response to crime and levels, not there to be a nuisance and harass innocent people.
Yet they harass many innocent black people with stop and search 28 times more so than whites, even though whites commit vastly more crimes, yet you are happy with this even though even using the flawed stats, whites should be stopped and searched 28 times more to balance out this disparity

If they weren't there and didn't give a fuck, then people would still be moaning that they were racist, not bothering in those areas 'cos they is black'!!!
I'm sure the victims of crime are happy the police are so active in those high crime areas, and any other decent people would not mind the minor inconvenience of being stopped if they were innocent and it helped the police to find criminals, so it really makes me wonder who all these people are who complain and are so upset with police catching criminals and making the area a better and safer place for everyone....????
Really are the victims happy Matti, then why is it above many rape and domestic violence victims see little justice, can you explain how they are happy with that Matti?

Tommy Monk wrote:You didn't answer my questions and you ask a load of irrelevant ones.
We are talking about stop and search. Not crime rates in Glasgow compared to London.
But I'm sure that most crimes are committed by young white Scottish men in Glasgow, and the police will be stopping and searching young white Scottish men, so is that racist?
You keep asking for me to provide a biological scientific study that doesn't exist.
We are talking about the police response to crime, not the causes of crime, that is a different topic.
The amount being stopped are higher but proportionate to the areas and crime levels there, the descriptions of the alleged perpetrators being mostly young black men, the types/level of violent crimes involved also require additional policing and a more hands on and direct approach, something you again fail to understand.
Violent street crime is dealt with differently than other types of crime. And stop and search is an integral part of policing.
If there is a lot of stabbing, street robberies or drug crime then stop and search is used more see if people are carrying weapons/drugs and to deter people from doing so.
The police are there as a response to crime and levels, they are working based on reported crime and discriptgmm of perpetrator, not there to be a nuisance and harass innocent people.
If they weren't there and didn't give a fuck, then people would still be moaning that they were racist, not bothering in those areas 'cos they is black'!!!I'm sure the victims of crime are happy the police are so active in those high crime areas, and any other decent people would not mind the minor inconvenience of being stopped if they were innocent and it helped the police to find criminals, so it really makes me wonder who all these people are who complain and are so upset with police catching criminals and making the area a better and safer place for everyone....????
Now why don't you answer some of my questions......
If in Glasgow, most of the street crime is done by young white Scottish men, who do the police stop and search?
Young white Scottish men?
Is that racist?
If in London most of the street crime is done by young black men, who do the police stop and search?
Young black men?
Is this racist?
In an area with high violent/street crime, what is most likely to be successful in tackling and reducing this crime;
a) more police and more police action, stop and search etc....
b) less police and less police action, stop and search etc....?
In an area with high violent/street crime committed by young white men, should the police be stopping and searching;
a) more young white men,
b) less young white men...?
In an area with high violent/street crime committed by young black men, should the police be stopping and searching;
a) more young black men,
b) less young black men....?????
Given that blacks are also disproportionately hugely more likely to be victims of this high level of black crime, don't you think we should be doing more to firstly admit there is a problem and secondly do more to protect the victims?
Crime is high WITH the overly tough policing, crime will multiply if the police are restricted from doing their jobs, and the whole community will suffer as a result from even higher crime.

Tommy Monk wrote:You didn't answer my questions and you ask a load of irrelevant ones.
I answered your questions you did not answer mine or Irns, we are exposing your claim to an IQ of 140
 ://?roflmao?/: 
Firstly....

I'm still not sure if you lefties are actually; (a) denying the high black crime rates, or (b) admitting it's true but just trying to excuse/justify/accommodate it through your socio-economic waffle???
Already answered, next

Please clarify your position on this?
As;
(a) goes against all the available statistical evidence,
(b) regardless of the 'causes' of crime, the admitted high and disproportionate levels of violent crime justifies the level of stop and search going on in these areas.
Again you ignore the stats are wrong due to the disparity of stop and search, arrests and prison sentencing, thus how is anyone able to gauge stats, clearly racially biased against blacks which have not responded to.
To answer his his point a, he has had countless reasons on this which has has ignored at every level where whites are not even being arrested for similar crimes to Blacks and the same with sentencing and how even though whites commit vastly more crimes, they are in comparison 28 times less likely to be stopped, that is astounding that there is a massive disparity when they already commit vastly the majority of crime. Matti ignores this at every opportunity and even waits until people go offline to reply, that is the funniest. He also thus ignores many blacks are being targeted for violent crimes, yet we have staggering figures on domestic violence for violent crimes. Now I am not sure if Matti can do the maths, but is he suggesting where we know one in 3 women in this nation are victims they are in mass multiple relationships with black men? Again that would be absurd, when we know the vast majority would be a White partner. This is another area the Police have done little with violent crime, again showing areas where it is clear whites would be as all the evidence presented so far shows are getting away with crimes.
So why are you ignoring this evidence

And secondly.....
In an area with high crime and a massive amount of this crime is disproportionately carried out by blacks, who should the police be stopping and searching?
Is it though? Again Police you ignore the stats are wrong due to the disparity of stop and search, arrests and prison sentencing, thus how is anyone able to gauge stats, clearly racially biased against blacks which have not responded to. So why have you not addressed this issue not once is this debate?

Why do you also ignore these other issues I have highlighted to you on violent crime

31% women and 18% men have experienced domestic abuse since
the age of 16 years. This amounts to 5 million women and 2.9 million

In 2011/12, the police reported nearly 800,000 incidents of domestic
Domestic violence conviction rates in the five years to 2011 stood at just 6.5% of incidents reported to police
The police recorded a total of 53,700 sexual offences across England and Wales, 71% of which were rape of serious sexual assault.
In 2011, 2,873 men were prosecuted for rape and 40% (1153) were
convicted
Now we know the Police is not even arresting as many Whites, let alone we know also the massive disparity with convictions, this is proven even more by the poor record as seen on rape and domestic violence.

We are talking about stop and search. Not crime rates in Glasgow compared to London.
Yes we are talking about stop and search which will also include Glasgow because it is part of the UK, where again you must be able to input the stop in search from there as well, being as it has high crime rates, so you thus have now made yourself an idiot, you want to talk about stop and search and you though can ask questions about violent crimes in London but not Glasgow?
One moment
 ://?roflmao?/: 
Hilarious, Matti trying to dictate the debate making himself a hypocrite ha ha, what an own goal, so you need to answer the question
But I'm sure that most crimes are committed by young white Scottish men in Glasgow, and the police will be stopping and searching young white Scottish men, so is that racist?
Are they though, is that an assumption again?

You keep asking for me to provide a biological scientific study that doesn't exist.
Does it not, I am afraid you are wrong, because there is studies on races and how humans are, you though know this and thus avoid it, so you have failed to answer thus concluding you have no evidence, when we know humans are biologically the same, thus negating any factor that races would be criminally different due to their brains being biologically the same makeup, oh dear, so what does that live us with Matti?
Social factors which is what you also ignore, so why do you ignore social factors behind crime?

We are not talking about domestic violence or rapes, which are dealt with by a completely different type of policeing.
 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 
Really, that is news to me, never heard anything so stupid in my life before, they are dealt with by the Police are they not, there are sub divisions, but domestic violence is part if the violent crime stats and even worse are you now trying to down play domestic violence? I mean you are the one always telling me Asians are too afraid to come forward with domestic violence, so we are left with the vast majority having to be white, which you avoid also, so why is it so many whites beat up women with violence?

The amount being stopped are higher but proportionate to the areas and crime levels there, the descriptions of the alleged perpetrators being mostly young black men, the types/level of violent crimes involved also require additional policing and a more hands on and direct approach, something you again fail to understand.
Again you ignore the fact we know white criminals are less likely to be caught with stop and search because they are 28 times less likely to be stopped, they are 4 times less in being arrested and 20% less in receiving a prison sentence, showing a massive disparity as already demonstrated, you though choose to ignore this basing the stats as they are not how they have been racially flawed because of Police racial bais. Thus you need to recognize as the Ministry of Justice and Government have done of this massive issue, why have you not done so  
Violent street crime is dealt with differently than other types of crime.
 ://?roflmao?/: Proof Matti is a hypocrite, I thought we were talking about stop and search, so which is it then, how about domestic violence and violent rape or do they not count either then?

If there is a lot of stabbingp or drug crime then stop and search is used more see if people are carrying weapons/drugs and to deter people from doing so.
There is and has been in Glasgow for years an in London both for hundreds of years, espcially in poverty areas, strange that is it not but you discount this even where it is majority white, so why does that show clearly your view on blacks goes out of the window when we find the same in majority white areas with high knife and gun crimes?

The police are there as a response to crime and levels, not there to be a nuisance and harass innocent people.
Yet they harass many innocent black people with stop and search 28 times more so than whites, even though whites commit vastly more crimes, yet you are happy with this even though even using the flawed stats, whites should be stopped and searched 28 times more to balance out this disparity

If they weren't there and didn't give a fuck, then people would still be moaning that they were racist, not bothering in those areas 'cos they is black'!!!
I'm sure the victims of crime are happy the police are so active in those high crime areas, and any other decent people would not mind the minor inconvenience of being stopped if they were innocent and it helped the police to find criminals, so it really makes me wonder who all these people are who complain and are so upset with police catching criminals and making the area a better and safer place for everyone....????
Really are the victims happy Matti, then why is it above many rape and domestic violence victims see little justice, can you explain how they are happy with that Matti?

Tommy Monk wrote:You didn't answer my questions and you ask a load of irrelevant ones.
I answered your questions you did not answer mine or Irns, we are exposing your claim to an IQ of 140
 ://?roflmao?/: 
Firstly....

I'm still not sure if you lefties are actually; (a) denying the high black crime rates, or (b) admitting it's true but just trying to excuse/justify/accommodate it through your socio-economic waffle???
Already answered, next

Please clarify your position on this?
As;
(a) goes against all the available statistical evidence,
(b) regardless of the 'causes' of crime, the admitted high and disproportionate levels of violent crime justifies the level of stop and search going on in these areas.
Again you ignore the stats are wrong due to the disparity of stop and search, arrests and prison sentencing, thus how is anyone able to gauge stats, clearly racially biased against blacks which have not responded to.
To answer his his point a, he has had countless reasons on this which has has ignored at every level where whites are not even being arrested for similar crimes to Blacks and the same with sentencing and how even though whites commit vastly more crimes, they are in comparison 28 times less likely to be stopped, that is astounding that there is a massive disparity when they already commit vastly the majority of crime. Matti ignores this at every opportunity and even waits until people go offline to reply, that is the funniest. He also thus ignores many blacks are being targeted for violent crimes, yet we have staggering figures on domestic violence for violent crimes. Now I am not sure if Matti can do the maths, but is he suggesting where we know one in 3 women in this nation are victims they are in mass multiple relationships with black men? Again that would be absurd, when we know the vast majority would be a White partner. This is another area the Police have done little with violent crime, again showing areas where it is clear whites would be as all the evidence presented so far shows are getting away with crimes.
So why are you ignoring this evidence

And secondly.....
In an area with high crime and a massive amount of this crime is disproportionately carried out by blacks, who should the police be stopping and searching?
Is it though? Again Police you ignore the stats are wrong due to the disparity of stop and search, arrests and prison sentencing, thus how is anyone able to gauge stats, clearly racially biased against blacks which have not responded to. So why have you not addressed this issue not once is this debate?

Why do you also ignore these other issues I have highlighted to you on violent crime

31% women and 18% men have experienced domestic abuse since
the age of 16 years. This amounts to 5 million women and 2.9 million

In 2011/12, the police reported nearly 800,000 incidents of domestic
Domestic violence conviction rates in the five years to 2011 stood at just 6.5% of incidents reported to police
The police recorded a total of 53,700 sexual offences across England and Wales, 71% of which were rape of serious sexual assault.
In 2011, 2,873 men were prosecuted for rape and 40% (1153) were
convicted
Now we know the Police is not even arresting as many Whites, let alone we know also the massive disparity with convictions, this is proven even more by the poor record as seen on rape and domestic violence.

We are talking about stop and search. Not crime rates in Glasgow compared to London.
Yes we are talking about stop and search which will also include Glasgow because it is part of the UK, where again you must be able to input the stop in search from there as well, being as it has high crime rates, so you thus have now made yourself an idiot, you want to talk about stop and search and you though can ask questions about violent crimes in London but not Glasgow?
One moment
 ://?roflmao?/: 
Hilarious, Matti trying to dictate the debate making himself a hypocrite ha ha, what an own goal, so you need to answer the question
But I'm sure that most crimes are committed by young white Scottish men in Glasgow, and the police will be stopping and searching young white Scottish men, so is that racist?
Are they though, is that an assumption again?

You keep asking for me to provide a biological scientific study that doesn't exist.
Does it not, I am afraid you are wrong, because there is studies on races and how humans are, you though know this and thus avoid it, so you have failed to answer thus concluding you have no evidence, when we know humans are biologically the same, thus negating any factor that races would be criminally different due to their brains being biologically the same makeup, oh dear, so what does that live us with Matti?
Social factors which is what you also ignore, so why do you ignore social factors behind crime?

We are not talking about domestic violence or rapes, which are dealt with by a completely different type of policeing.
 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 
Really, that is news to me, never heard anything so stupid in my life before, they are dealt with by the Police are they not, there are sub divisions, but domestic violence is part if the violent crime stats and even worse are you now trying to down play domestic violence? I mean you are the one always telling me Asians are too afraid to come forward with domestic violence, so we are left with the vast majority having to be white, which you avoid also, so why is it so many whites beat up women with violence?

The amount being stopped are higher but proportionate to the areas and crime levels there, the descriptions of the alleged perpetrators being mostly young black men, the types/level of violent crimes involved also require additional policing and a more hands on and direct approach, something you again fail to understand.
Again you ignore the fact we know white criminals are less likely to be caught with stop and search because they are 28 times less likely to be stopped, they are 4 times less in being arrested and 20% less in receiving a prison sentence, showing a massive disparity as already demonstrated, you though choose to ignore this basing the stats as they are not how they have been racially flawed because of Police racial bais. Thus you need to recognize as the Ministry of Justice and Government have done of this massive issue, why have you not done so  
Violent street crime is dealt with differently than other types of crime.
 ://?roflmao?/: Proof Matti is a hypocrite, I thought we were talking about stop and search, so which is it then, how about domestic violence and violent rape or do they not count either then?

If there is a lot of stabbingp or drug crime then stop and search is used more see if people are carrying weapons/drugs and to deter people from doing so.
There is and has been in Glasgow for years an in London both for hundreds of years, espcially in poverty areas, strange that is it not but you discount this even where it is majority white, so why does that show clearly your view on blacks goes out of the window when we find the same in majority white areas with high knife and gun crimes?

The police are there as a response to crime and levels, not there to be a nuisance and harass innocent people.
Yet they harass many innocent black people with stop and search 28 times more so than whites, even though whites commit vastly more crimes, yet you are happy with this even though even using the flawed stats, whites should be stopped and searched 28 times more to balance out this disparity

If they weren't there and didn't give a fuck, then people would still be moaning that they were racist, not bothering in those areas 'cos they is black'!!!
I'm sure the victims of crime are happy the police are so active in those high crime areas, and any other decent people would not mind the minor inconvenience of being stopped if they were innocent and it helped the police to find criminals, so it really makes me wonder who all these people are who complain and are so upset with police catching criminals and making the area a better and safer place for everyone....????
Really are the victims happy Matti, then why is it above many rape and domestic violence victims see little justice, can you explain how they are happy with that Matti?

Tommy Monk wrote:This is not about the causes of crime dodge, that is a different debate so stop hanging on to this red herring as an excuse to run away!




Can you answer any of my points?

Tommy Monk wrote:Stop and search is a response to crime you bell end!

Tommy Monk wrote:IF a high crime area with young black men being overwhelmingly reported responsible, who should the police be stopping and searching?


Colour of skin/race is a fundamental part of description.



It is unavoidable.

Tommy Monk wrote:It is, in an area with high street/violent crime and young white men being reported responsible, the police overwhelmingly stop and search young white men.


As seen in Glasgow.



I think you are getting confused by reading too much leftie bullshit dodge....!

Tommy Monk wrote:It is, in an area with high street/violent crime and young white men being reported responsible, the police overwhelmingly stop and search young white men.


As seen in Glasgow.



I think you are getting confused by reading too much leftie bullshit dodge....!

Tommy Monk wrote:It is, in an area with high street/violent crime and young white men being reported responsible, the police overwhelmingly stop and search young white men.


As seen in Glasgow.



I think you are getting confused by reading too much leftie bullshit dodge....!

Tommy Monk wrote:
Iron, the causes of crime iisn't the issue

Tommy Monk wrote:We know that there are areas with disproportionately high crime and this is disproportionately done by young black men, so who should the police be stopping and searching?


Simple logic, cause and effect.

victorisnotamused wrote:One could of course take the view that the police look where they know looking will do some good

victorisnotamused wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:One could of course take the view that the police look where they know looking will do some good

bump.

victorisnotamused wrote:be that as it may IRN....

look at the "deprived" areas of glasgow and you find...predominantly white
look at the deprived areas of other places and you will find.....predominantly some other "group"

the police are not social services..they look...where they know the likely hood of crime will exist...
the fact this reflects the make up of the "deprived" ethnicity has NOTHING to do with percieved police bias

victorisnotamused wrote:Precicely IRN...so

whats wrong with the cops in cities like london ...where the deprived ARE predominantly "of other ethnicity" stopping and searching more of those "others"?

Given the demographics of things, cities are going to be the places stop and search is MOST used...I mean its hardly going to be a matter of concern in a sleepy rural village is it?

and IN general (glasgow being by far an exception) inner cities are largely populated with ????

so it stands to reason more "others" are going to be searched..

Its not rocket science....nor as the rabid lefties would have us beleive is it some sort of "ill will" upon those "others"

Tommy Monk wrote:Iron & JD, you are both missing the point of this whole thread as stated in title and OP.


This is not about the causes of crime.


That is a different debate for a different thread, although some of the facts and figures will undoubtedly overlap.


This thread is about police response to crime and stop & search, and the suggestion that stop and search often only happens because the person (being stopped) is black.


Now given that stop and search is used all over the UK, and in particular in areas with high levels of violent street crime and focused against those matching description of alleged perpetrator in said crimes and in said areas, the suggestion that it often only happens because they are black is completely ignoring the other factors involved, being actual crime reports in area, description of perpetrator, age/sex/height/build/clothing/behaviour etc, are they already known to police, acting suspiciously, changing direction of travel after seeing police have spotted them etc?



In Glasgow, where there is a high level of violent street crime being carried out by young white Scottish men, are they complaining 'is it cos I is white?'??? Or Scottish? Or young? Or male???


If the blacks being stopped were being stopped in the same way/numbers by black police? Would they still be complaining about racism???

If in Glasgow, the young white scottish men were being stopped by black police in response to crimes and descriptions, would that then be grounds for claims of racism???


Well as the police are responding to crimes and descriptions, it matters little whether the actual police are white or black, they would be acting the same and stopping and searching the same people, so this says more about the racist mentality of the blacks who are being stopped, and how they think it's somehow ok to be stopped by black police and only racist to be stopped by white police for the same reasons!!!!! Who are the real racists here????



I thought we'd moved beyond the old 'is it cos I is black?' and 'you is all racist!' bullshit after Ali G!!!



If I'm driving through an area in a blue ford focus, and get pulled up by a couple of police, both young, female, asian (and both quite butch so probably lesbians), and they say they stopped me because my car and I matched the description of a recently reported crime in the area, can I complain that they were just being racist/sexist/straight-a-phobic/ageist etc? Or they just had a problem with Fords/Focus's or small/blue cars?


Or maybe complain that they are only stopping me cos they is police????

Tommy Monk wrote:9-10% is still a lot of arrests, and it also acts as a considerable deterrent, which is indisputable.


Maybe the stop and search forms were not all filled in correctly, but that is just an argument for tightening up on the form filling being done better.

Tommy Monk wrote:That doesn't make sense.

Tommy Monk wrote:That is completely ignoring the other factors involved, being actual crime reports in area, description of perpetrator, age/sex/height/build/clothing/behaviour etc, are they already known to police, acting suspiciously, changing direction of travel after seeing police have spotted them etc?






In Glasgow, where there is a high level of violent street crime being carried out by young white Scottish men, are they complaining 'is it cos I is white?'??? Or Scottish? Or young? Or male???

Didge wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:That is completely ignoring the other factors involved, being actual crime reports in area, description of perpetrator, age/sex/height/build/clothing/behaviour etc, are they already known to police, acting suspiciously, changing direction of travel after seeing police have spotted them etc?
In Glasgow, where there is a high level of violent street crime being carried out by young white Scottish men, are they complaining 'is it cos I is white?'??? Or Scottish? Or young? Or male???

It is ignoring nothing, as you are the one ignoring the whole point of an individual being stopped on a description of skin colour alone, something you avoid at every turn which shows you cannot even answer in regards to white people being stopped on skin colour alone. Why does not the same happen with whites?
How much more evidence do you need to ignore?
DOH
Seriously you really end up destroying your own arguments

Tommy Monk wrote:

Didge wrote:
It is ignoring nothing, as you are the one ignoring the whole point of an individual being stopped on a description of skin colour alone, something you avoid at every turn which shows you cannot even answer in regards to white people being stopped on skin colour alone. Why does not the same happen with whites?
How much more evidence do you need to ignore?
DOH
Seriously you really end up destroying your own arguments

No I don't believe anyone is stopped just because of skin colour, that will be just part of a description of perpetrators of crimes the police are acting on and crime levels in The area.


Other factors will include height/build/age/sex/clothing/behaviour etc.

Tommy Monk wrote:Political correctness.

Tommy Monk wrote:No I don't believe anyone is stopped just because of skin colour, that will be just part of a description of perpetrators of crimes the police are acting on and crime levels in The area.

Other factors will include height/build/age/sex/clothing/behaviour etc.








 

• Over 50% of stop and searches are for drugs, 10% are for offensive weapons and less than 1% are for guns .
  
  
• The police in England and Wales stop and search someone for drugs every 58 seconds.
  
  
• Of the more than half million stop and searches for drugs carried out in 2009/10 only 7% resulted in arrest.
  
  
• In 2009/10 there were 10 stop and searches for drugs for every 1,000 people in England and Wales.  Black people were stopped and searched for drugs at 6.3 times the rate of white people, while Asian people were stopped and searched for drugs at 2.5 times the rate and those identifying as mixed race were stopped and searched for drugs at twice the rate of white people. This is despite the fact that drug use is lower amongst  black and Asian people when compared to their white counterparts .
  
  
• Black people are arrested for a drugs offence at 6 times the rate of white people, and Asian people are arrested at almost twice the rate of the white.
  
  
• Black people are more likely to receive a harsher police response for possession of drugs . In 2009/10 78% of black people caught in possession of cocaine by the Metropolitan Police were charged for this offence and only 22% received cautions. In comparison 44% of white people were charged for the same offence and 56% received cautions.
  
  
• Black people caught in possession of cannabis by the Metropolitan Police are less likely to receive a cannabis warning than white people, and are charged at 5 times the rate of whites.
  
  
• Prosecutions for drug possession are at an all-time high and this is primarily being driven by cannabis possession. In 2010, the Crown Prosecution Service brought more prosecutions for possession of drugs than in any other year since the introduction of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 - 43,406 people were found guilty of drug possession. 60% of these prosecutions were for cannabis.
  
  
• Black people are subject to court proceedings for drug possession offences at 4.5 times the rate of whites, are found guilty of this offence at 4.5 times the rate, and are subject to immediate custody at 5 times the rate of white people.  
  
  
• Once they have been taken to court black people are less likely to be given a suspended prison sentence for drug offences than white people.
  
  
• Every year approximately 80,000 people in England and Wales are convicted or cautioned for possession of drugs.  In the 15 year period, 1996 to 2011, 1.2 million criminal records have been generated as a result of drug possession laws.