Malaysia Airlines 777 disappears

by Original Quill Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:55 am

First topic message reminder :

This is just in...a Malaysia 777 Airliner, bound from Kuala Lampur to Bejing, has disappeared somewhere over Ho Chi Min airspace.

Just broke, so that's all I have.

by Guest Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:36 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Sassy wrote:Experts on aircraft maintenance have explained that the plane's communications system can only be disabled manually – a process that requires switching a number of cockpit controls in sequence until a computer screen necessitates a keyboard input (not disengaging a circuit breaker on a panel thick with breakers as has been inferred).

Not straight forward then...does it say if the keyboard entry coded??

No, but I would imagine the 'keyboard input' would need a password or code.

by Guest Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:41 pm

Sassy wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

Not straight forward then...does it say if the keyboard entry coded??

No, but I would imagine the 'keyboard input' would need a password or code.

so either the pilot was coerced or he was in on it.... Shocked

by Guest Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:48 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Sassy wrote:

No, but I would imagine the 'keyboard input' would need a password or code.

so either the pilot was coerced or he was in on it....

Well, the crew are told in case of a hijacking to comply and not to do anything to put themselves and the passengers in dangers. The height they climbed to would have incapacitated the passengers, but they would have had to stay at that level for quite some time to kill them, and it appears they didn't.

by Guest Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:52 pm

Sassy wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

so either the pilot was coerced or he was in on it....

Well, the crew are told in case of a hijacking to comply and not to do anything to put themselves and the passengers in dangers. The height they climbed to would have incapacitated the passengers, but they would have had to stay at that level for quite some time to kill them, and it appears they didn't.

I was just reading skynews and the Americans think the last ping they got from the plane could be when it was on the ground, they are also worried the plane could be used like a cruise missile on an attack, it is reasonable to think that but the yanks can get a little paranoid to....

by Guest Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:56 pm

I'll agree with that!

by eddie Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:59 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Sassy wrote:Are you lot trying to frighten yourselves to death? No-one has the slightest idea at the moment why it was taken, you really are winding each other up!

lol... good point...

But it was a good reason to allow myself a whiskey or two later lol

by Guest Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:01 pm

eddie wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

lol... good point...

But it was a good reason to allow myself a whiskey or two later lol

yeah like you need a reason for a whiskey or two... Smile

by Guest Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:01 pm

eddie wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

lol... good point...

But it was a good reason to allow myself a whiskey or two later lol

Sounds like a plan! Wink

by Guest Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:02 pm

i will just stick to a cup of coffee , yeah boring aren't i lol!

by eddie Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:03 pm

Sassy wrote:
eddie wrote:

But it was a good reason to allow myself a whiskey or two later lol

Sounds like a plan!

Lol HF true enough!
And sassy, it's the best plan I've had all day Cool

by Original Quill Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:09 pm

Sassy wrote:Experts on aircraft maintenance have explained that the plane's communications system can only be disabled manually – a process that requires switching a number of cockpit controls in sequence until a computer screen necessitates a keyboard input (not disengaging a circuit breaker on a panel thick with breakers as has been inferred).

I'm afraid you are wrong about that, Sass. The only way to disable the ACAR signal is to go to a circuit breaker panel behind and slightly to the left of the pilot, in the ceiling. You remove the circuit breaker, like a fuse, and it stops the data feed.

There are no controls for the ACAR system, as it is not intended by the manufacturer to be disabled under any circumstances. The only reason you would want to do this is to hide, and Boeing Aircraft, not to mention the FAA, frowns on hiding commercial airplanes.

However, even when the ACAR system is disabled, the aircraft still sends out a pulse, which is how they have known it flew on for some 6 or more hours.

by Guest Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:29 pm

The shutdown of the on board reporting system shortly after the jet was last seen on radar, can be performed in a series of keystrokes on either of the cockpit's two flight management computers in the cockpit. The computers are used to set the performance of the engines on takeoff, plan the route, as well as other functions to guide the 777.
View Graphics

After vanishing, the jet's satellite communications system continued to ping orbiting satellites for at least five hours.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579439653701712312

by Guest Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:09 pm

The fact remains they managed it, the world waits to see what they intend to do with the plane and its passengers..

by groomsy Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:56 am

Conspiracy Theorists say it was rerouted and went to an American base

by veya_victaous Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:45 am

As authorities probing the mysterious disappearance of the Malaysia Airlines plane focused on the pilots, an unnamed source in Malaysian newspaper the New Straits Times said the Boeing 777 may have dropped to just 5000ft to defeat commercial radar.

“The person who had the control over the aircraft has a solid knowledge of avionics and navigation and left a clean track,” the unnamed source said.

“It’s possible that the aircraft had hugged the terrain in some areas which are mountainous to avoid radar detection.”

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/search-for-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-enters-its-10th-day-with-no-sign-of-plane/story-fnizu68q-1226856429922

They are saying it could be the pilot due to political reasons

by Lone Wolf Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:27 am

AUSTRALIA has now taken over the S&R operations for Malaysia...

NO real surprise there, folks ~ along with the USA, Canada and NZ, these four countries are still the best in the world..

Malaysians, Vietnamese, indosesians ? Get real ! Those countries have nothing to compare, despite all of he b/s that a couple of big-mouthed know-nothings on here will be sure to shout and throw back in my direction after these simple home truths..

MALAYSIANS "couldn't find there arses with their elbows" even when handed to them on a platter !

THE best search equipment - sonar, OTH RADAR, short range/HF radio, heat detecting and IF cameras, computer simulation and modelling ~ usually comes out of the USA (and to a lesser extent Oz and Canada..) and is used by Aussie, Japanese (and Korean under US mentoring) navies and air force resources, with local software adapted to suit..

Shove that in your "Malaysia is a 'sophisticated' 21st century country" pipes and smoke it... :::grouch::

by Guest Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:37 am

http://news.sky.com/story/1227014/missing-plane-police-probe-flight-engineer

by Irn Bru Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:59 am

Lone Wolf wrote:
AUSTRALIA has now taken over the S&R operations for Malaysia...

NO real surprise there, folks ~ along with the USA, Canada and NZ, these four countries are still the best in the world..

Malaysians, Vietnamese, indosesians ? Get real ! Those countries have nothing to compare, despite all of he b/s that a couple of big-mouthed know-nothings on here will be sure to shout and throw back in my direction after these simple home truths..

MALAYSIANS "couldn't find there arses with their elbows" even when handed to them on a platter !

THE best search equipment - sonar, OTH RADAR, short range/HF radio, heat detecting and IF cameras, computer simulation and modelling ~ usually comes out of the USA (and to a lesser extent Oz and Canada..) and is used by Aussie, Japanese (and Korean under US mentoring) navies and air force resources, with local software adapted to suit..

Shove that in your "Malaysia is a 'sophisticated' 21st century country" pipes and smoke it... :::grouch::

Then why did the US Coast Guard and Homeland Security select a British radar for their HC-130H Maritime Surveillance‎ fleet - one made in Edinburgh?

And why did Insitu Pacific in Australia select the British PicoSAR system that they installed on the Integrator Tactical Unmanned Aircraft System that they marketed and sold in the USA? PicoSAR is a world leading, compact Synthetic Aperture Radar deliver high-resolution SAR images from extended ranges, in all weather conditions. Again made in Edinburgh.

And why do you think that the defensive aids that protect the C130 fleets of the US, Australia, the UK and even the US President's Air Force 1 flight and it's escorts?
I suppose it may have something to do with them being the best,

How long did it take the US to find Bin Laden? How many years?

And no-one has said that the Malaysians make sophisticated radar systems. What was said is that they have sophisticated radar systems. They may have handled the S&R operations badly but it remains to be seen what influences may have been going on in the background - time may tell.

Puff puff Laughing

by Guest Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:49 am

Lone Wolf wrote:
AUSTRALIA has now taken over the S&R operations for Malaysia...

NO real surprise there, folks ~ along with the USA, Canada and NZ, these four countries are still the best in the world..

Malaysians, Vietnamese, indosesians ? Get real ! Those countries have nothing to compare, despite all of he b/s that a couple of big-mouthed know-nothings on here will be sure to shout and throw back in my direction after these simple home truths..

MALAYSIANS "couldn't find there arses with their elbows" even when handed to them on a platter !

THE best search equipment - sonar, OTH RADAR, short range/HF radio, heat detecting and IF cameras, computer simulation and modelling ~ usually comes out of the USA (and to a lesser extent Oz and Canada..) and is used by Aussie, Japanese (and Korean under US mentoring) navies and air force resources, with local software adapted to suit..

Shove that in your "Malaysia is a 'sophisticated' 21st century country" pipes and smoke it... :::grouch::

Please tell me that is a joke.

by Guest Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:16 pm

VOD(original) wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/1227014/missing-plane-police-probe-flight-engineer

it's been very well planned that is for sure..

by gerber Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:52 pm

Been keping a close eye on CNN they do seem to really on the ball.

On the comments under the heading

[size=30]Did terrorists take control of Flight 370[/size]

I have found this......

" [size=30]Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?[/size]
Monday, March 17, 2014 - 12:01 AM EST
UPDATED: Monday, March 17, 2014 - 9:00 AM EST
Typo was made during the conversion of UTC times. Meeting of SIA68 and MH320 occurred at 18:00UTC - 18:15UTC. MH320 dropped off of civilian radar at 17:22UTC.

How does this solve the mystery??? We know MH370 didn’t fly to Spain!  Once MH370 had cleared the volatile airspaces and was safe from being detected by military radar sites in India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan it would have been free to break off from the shadow of SIA68 and could have then flown a path to it’s final landing site. There are several locations along the flight path of SIA68 where it could have easily broken contact and flown and landed in Xingjian province, Kyrgyzstan, or Turkmenistan. Each of these final locations would match up almost perfectly with the 7.5 hours of total flight time and trailing SIA68. In addition, these locations are all possibilities that are on the “ARC” and fit with the data provided by Inmarsat from the SATCOM’s last known ping at 01:11UTC.
There are too many oddities in this whole story that don’t make sense if this theory isn’t the answer in my opinion. Why did MH370 fly a seemingly haphazard route and suddenly start heading northwest towards the Andaman Islands on P628?   If not for this reason, it seems like a rather odd maneuver. The timing and evasive actions seem deliberate. Someone went through great lengths to attempt to become stealthy and disable ACARS, transponder/ADS-B (even though SATCOM to Inmarsat was left powered).
After looking at all the details, it is my opinion that MH370 snuck out of the Bay of Bengal using SIA68 as the perfect cover.  It entered radar coverage already in the radar shadow of the other 777, stayed there throughout coverage, and then exited SIA68’s shadow and then most likely landed in one of several land locations north of India and Afghanistan.
Sources: SkyVector.com, FlightRadar24.com, FlightAware.com, CNN.com, Reuters.com.
-Keith L.
KeithLCincy@gmail.com

http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/post/79838944823/did-malaysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68

The whole is more than worth a read........

by Guest Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:03 pm

Interesting Gerbs. So many theories, I wish one would be right and they would find it.

by Lone Wolf Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:19 am

TODAY's TIMELY UPDATES :

Search has increasingly swung south over the Indian Ocean, with something like 80% of international resources moved into search area from Indonesia south, out 1800 kms west from WA coast...

Hijacking is still #1 suspicion; emphasis still on co-pilot and pilot, flight engineer and crew; all possibilities are still supposed to be on the table..

BOTH families of the passengers, and leaders and ministers from neighbouring countries were turning on Malaysia and it's government today ! Labelling the country and the airline, and the government especially, as "liars", excessively secretive, and unwilling to be forthcoming ~ EVEN towards the searchers themselves ! cyclops

I'VE said it before and I'll say it again ~ Malaysians can't be trusted as a nation ! Sure, I've met a handful of nice people from there, and it is a fact that around 80% of the people over there just want to get on with their lives ~ like the majority of ordinary people everywhere..

HOWEVER, as a country they still remain the most racist, xenophobic, backward and unsophisticated country in this region !!! Ruled as they are by "20 ruling families", led by their traditional "Three Royal families", ruling through their puppet regimes, where the PM usually comes from one or another of these leading families; AND (as in Indonesia..), the military's Generals also seem to come from these leading families - rather than being promoted on merit; as do most of the corporate CEOs as always... Suspect

AS is ever the case, the rich families get richer, the corrupt administrations grow more corrupt, their growing-but-still-small "middle class" offer up their elitist, highly educated modern 'sophisticates' image ~ while the great majority still struggle by, even if nowhere near as bad as the Philippines, Burma nor Indonesia..

by gerber Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:39 am

" It has been revealed that the wife and three children of MH370's captain moved out of the family home the day before the plane went missing.
A maid at Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah's house in upmarket Kuala Lumpur suburb said that his wife and three children were staying at their second home when the plane disappeared.

Police are investigating the significance of the pilot's association with Malaysian opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim, who was jailed immediately prior to the departure of MH 370.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2582249/Keen-chef-inventor-passionate-toy-remote-controlled-aircraft-inside-home-life-MH370-pilot-Captain-Zaharie.html

And

The pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines jet is pictured in a T-shirt with a Democracy is Dead slogan as fears emerge he could have hijacked the plane as an anti-government protest.
Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah was a fervent supporter of his country's opposition leader who was jailed for homosexuality - illegal in Malaysia - only hours before flight MH370 vanished with 239 passengers and crew on board, the Sunday Mirror can reveal.
And in a new twist, it emerged that the pilot's wife and three children moved out of the family's home the day before the plane's disappearance.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh370-3248001#ixzz2wJG0x7Kg
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

by Guest Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:35 pm

I see everybody has said the Malaysians are backwards and couldn't organise a Stag doo in a brothel.

I still say it's a terrible accident.

Hope they're all found safe and well though.

by Guest Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:43 pm

gerber wrote:" It has been revealed that the wife and three children of MH370's captain moved out of the family home the day before the plane went missing.
[size=10.399999618530273]A maid at Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah's house in upmarket Kuala Lumpur suburb said that his wife and three children were staying at their second home when the plane disappeared.[/size]

[size=10.399999618530273]Police are investigating the significance of the pilot's association with Malaysian opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim, who was jailed immediately prior to the departure of MH 370. [/size]
[size=10.399999618530273]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2582249/Keen-chef-inventor-passionate-toy-remote-controlled-aircraft-inside-home-life-MH370-pilot-Captain-Zaharie.html[/size]

[size=10.399999618530273]And[/size]

[size=14.399999618530273]The pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines jet is pictured in a T-shirt with a Democracy is Dead slogan as fears emerge he could have hijacked the plane as an anti-government protest.[/size]
[size=14.399999618530273]Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah was a fervent supporter of his country's opposition leader who was jailed for homosexuality - illegal in Malaysia - only hours before flight MH370 vanished with 239 passengers and crew on board, the Sunday Mirror can reveal.[/size]
[size=14.399999618530273]And in a new twist, it emerged that the pilot's wife and three children moved out of the family's home the day before the plane's disappearance.[/size]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh370-3248001#ixzz2wJG0x7Kg
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

again the plot thickens... Smile

by Original Quill Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:05 pm

Sassy wrote:The shutdown of the on board reporting system shortly after the jet was last seen on radar, can be performed in a series of keystrokes on either of the cockpit's two flight management computers in the cockpit. The computers are used to set the performance of the engines on takeoff, plan the route, as well as other functions to guide the 777.
View Graphics

After vanishing, the jet's satellite communications system continued to ping orbiting satellites for at least five hours.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579439653701712312

First, you are confusing the ACAR system and the transponder. The transponder is what is right before the pilots. AND...it was turned off before the co-pilot said good night, which was just before the change of course.

Second, GIG, the transponder switch has a setting for telling everyone the aircraft has been hijacked. That selection was never made.

by Original Quill Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:26 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:I see everybody has said the Malaysians are backwards and couldn't organise a Stag doo in a brothel.

I still say it's a terrible accident.

Same point, isn't it? Fortunately, technology isn't dependent upon your faith-based imaginings, andy.

If it was an accident, why did the pilot or someone switch off the transponder and go to all the trouble to disable the ACAR system? If it was a suicide, why travel six or seven hours into the Indian Ocean? Someone was deliberately trying to hide that aircraft. It makes sense to ask, where and what for? You don't deliberately fly and aircraft hours across an ocean, only to dump it into the drink. Whomever it was, s/he kept it aloft and flying for hours. Why?

Clearly there was deliberate wrong doing. That might be coupled with a miscalculation and error, creating what you could call an accident...but that doesn't answer the questions.

by Guest Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:34 pm

apparently they have found the wings....

they said they are a very nice chinese couple but the plane is still missing.. Smile

by Ben Reilly Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:36 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:apparently they have found the wings....

they said they are a very nice chinese couple but the plane is still missing..

Too soon!

by gerber Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:48 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:apparently they have found the wings....

they said they are a very nice chinese couple but the plane is still missing..

Took me awhile............. OK rather longer - and then ------- velly velly good. ::happ::

by eddie Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:21 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:apparently they have found the wings....

they said they are a very nice chinese couple but the plane is still missing..

Too soon!

Benjy the English laugh at everything! Despite how it appears on here lol

by eddie Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:22 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:apparently they have found the wings....

they said they are a very nice chinese couple but the plane is still missing..

Now that's just Wong Laughing

by Irn Bru Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:05 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Sassy wrote:The shutdown of the on board reporting system shortly after the jet was last seen on radar, can be performed in a series of keystrokes on either of the cockpit's two flight management computers in the cockpit. The computers are used to set the performance of the engines on takeoff, plan the route, as well as other functions to guide the 777.
View Graphics

After vanishing, the jet's satellite communications system continued to ping orbiting satellites for at least five hours.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579439653701712312

First, you are confusing the ACAR system and the transponder. The transponder is what is right before the pilots. AND...it was turned off before the co-pilot said good night, which was just before the change of course.

Second, GIG, the transponder switch has a setting for telling everyone the aircraft has been hijacked. That selection was never made.

Quill, BBC news showed a video last night of a pilot switching off ACARS just by keying data into the flight management computer. Obviously they didn't show the keystroke sequences to do this but it clearly demonstrated that it can be done without the pilot having to get out of his seat. Switching it off stops ACARS transmitting it's data but it doesn't stop the pings going out and according to the BBC these were still going out for several hours until there was a complete black-out. To stop the pings does require access to the electronics bay to do this by removing a circuit breaker.

by Ben Reilly Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:17 pm

eddie wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:apparently they have found the wings....

they said they are a very nice chinese couple but the plane is still missing..

Too soon!

Benjy the English laugh at everything! Despite how it appears on here lol

Ah, but "too soon" coupled with my noddy smiley devils allows me to laugh and disapprove at the same time, one of my specialties!

by Guest Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:22 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

First, you are confusing the ACAR system and the transponder. The transponder is what is right before the pilots. AND...it was turned off before the co-pilot said good night, which was just before the change of course.

Second, GIG, the transponder switch has a setting for telling everyone the aircraft has been hijacked. That selection was never made.

Quill, BBC news showed a video last night of a pilot switching off ACARS just by keying data into the flight management computer. Obviously they didn't show the keystroke sequences to do this but it clearly demonstrated that it can be done without the pilot having to get out of his seat. Switching it off stops ACARS transmitting it's data but it doesn't stop the pings going out and according to the BBC these were still going out for several hours until there was a complete black-out. To stop the pings does require access to the electronics bay to do this by removing a circuit breaker.

Didn't you know, Quill is a top Boeing pilot as well as everything else Rolling Eyes

What do the real experts know?

by Irn Bru Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:39 pm

Here's an earlier report

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26621169

by Guest Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:54 pm

Well that took seconds for both. I was very interested in the fact they didn't follow normal radar handover procedure before saying goodnight to Malaysia.

by Original Quill Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:16 am

Irn Bru wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

First, you are confusing the ACAR system and the transponder. The transponder is what is right before the pilots. AND...it was turned off before the co-pilot said good night, which was just before the change of course.

Second, GIG, the transponder switch has a setting for telling everyone the aircraft has been hijacked. That selection was never made.

Quill, BBC news showed a video last night of a pilot switching off ACARS just by keying data into the flight management computer. Obviously they didn't show the keystroke sequences to do this but it clearly demonstrated that it can be done without the pilot having to get out of his seat. Switching it off stops ACARS transmitting it's data but it doesn't stop the pings going out and according to the BBC these were still going out for several hours until there was a complete black-out. To stop the pings does require access to the electronics bay to do this by removing a circuit breaker.

Good for the BBC. Now do you want to listen to the experts?

You can shut down the ACAR system by computer, but that shuts down the whole system...ACARS means Aircraft and Communications and Reporting System. Are you aware the system in this case continued to ping the satellite for 6-7 hours? Oh, the BBC didn't tell you that fundamental fact?? What a shame.

You wouldn't get that ping by shutting down the whole system. You would get that by only disabling the circuit, but not the system connection. The system didn't transmit data, but it continued to inquire the connection, as it should. You've been listening to that idiot sassy, too much. That or the BBC.

The aircraft was made by Americans; its about time you asked the experts.

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:28 am

Original Quill wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:

Quill, BBC news showed a video last night of a pilot switching off ACARS just by keying data into the flight management computer. Obviously they didn't show the keystroke sequences to do this but it clearly demonstrated that it can be done without the pilot having to get out of his seat. Switching it off stops ACARS transmitting it's data but it doesn't stop the pings going out and according to the BBC these were still going out for several hours until there was a complete black-out. To stop the pings does require access to the electronics bay to do this by removing a circuit breaker.

Good for the BBC. Now do you want to listen to the experts?

You can shut down the ACAR system by computer, but that shuts down the whole system. Are you aware the system in this case continued to ping the satellite for 6-7 hours? Oh, the BBC didn't tell you that fundamental fact?? What a shame.

You wouldn't get that ping by shutting down the whole system. You would get that by disabling the circuit, but not the system. You've been listening to that idiot sassy, too much. That or the BBC. The aircraft was made by Americans, listen to the experts.

TO Add to Quills post, the ACAR is a civilian system there are military trackers on it too they were on for at least 15 minutes longer. I believe it is the Military system not ACAR that has still be responding to pings for hours afterwards. but all the media has been confusing so who knows confused

but from what I gathered that was the key reason for them believing it was not a catastrophic failure as the 2 system would have gone off at the same time.

by Original Quill Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:39 am

During the extended pings period, what was happening was the satellite was picking up the fact that the aircraft was still alive. The satellite system is for commercial communication, not necessarily military. The ACAR system can be listened to by anyone who wants to pay the extra $$$ to subscribe to it. It's like cable TV. Apparently, the Malaysians didn't pay for extras, so they didn't know...they subscribed, but they didn't get the extra channels, so to speak.

Of course the American military pays the whole cable bill, so they were the ones who knew...that, plus Boeing Aircraft. But what they found out was the connection was data-less. All the satellite picked up was the aircraft's inquiry signal--no data because the circuit was pulled--which went on for hours. That's how they knew the aircraft was still flying.

All of this is continuing, developing news. So, nobody has the final word until the fat lady sings.

by Guest Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:48 am

eddie wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:apparently they have found the wings....

they said they are a very nice chinese couple but the plane is still missing..

Now that's just Wong

LOL its our way i guess and we don't mind having the piss taken out on us either we will laugh at that too ::D::

by Guest Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:03 am

Sassy wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:

Quill, BBC news showed a video last night of a pilot switching off ACARS just by keying data into the flight management computer. Obviously they didn't show the keystroke sequences to do this but it clearly demonstrated that it can be done without the pilot having to get out of his seat. Switching it off stops ACARS transmitting it's data but it doesn't stop the pings going out and according to the BBC these were still going out for several hours until there was a complete black-out. To stop the pings does require access to the electronics bay to do this by removing a circuit breaker.

Didn't you know, Quill is a top Boeing pilot as well as everything else What do the real experts know?

Jesus Christ over 200 people are missing. The he knows better than you stuff is not appropriate.

by Lone Wolf Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:40 am

Sassy wrote:.............................................

Didn't you know, Quill is a top Boeing pilot as well as everything else What do the real experts know?

IDIOT...

by Guest Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:46 am

Original Quill wrote:During the extended pings period, what was happening was the satellite was picking up the fact that the aircraft was still alive. The satellite system is for commercial communication, not necessarily military. The ACAR system can be listened to by anyone who wants to pay the extra $$$ to subscribe to it. It's like cable TV. Apparently, the Malaysians didn't pay for extras, so they didn't know...they subscribed, but they didn't get the extra channels, so to speak.

Of course the American military pays the whole cable bill, so they were the ones who knew...that, plus Boeing Aircraft. But what they found out was the connection was data-less. All the satellite picked up was the aircraft's inquiry signal--no data because the circuit was pulled--which went on for hours. That's how they knew the aircraft was still flying.

All of this is continuing, developing news. So, nobody has the final word until the fat lady sings.

Frankly Quill you have that totally round your teeth, and when it comes to what happens with the ACAR system, I would rather watch an aviation expert sitting in a 777 compit, showing you exactly what happens as per Irn's link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26621169

With so many people lost, aviation experts are the ones in the know.

As for the ACAR system, the upgraded version would not have given them any more information, in fact the ACAR system does not plot actual location, but sends systems data. The aircraft continues to ping on a satellite system even when it is turned off, just because it is in the air and registers with the satellite.

What is this technology, and how does it work?

Investigators are focusing on data relayed by a system called ACARS, or Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System. In basic versions of the service, the airplane shares data automatically in short radio bursts with airline officials. ACARS allows the plane to send multiple types of messages, including information about fuel levels and engine status. In the case of Air France 447, which plunged into the ocean off the coast of Brazil in 2009, the doomed aircraft sent 29 ACARS transmissions warning of a problem before the plane crashed.

You mentioned basic implementations. There's more than one ACARS?

Think of it like a cable TV package. According to Bill Waldock, an air crash investigator and a professor at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, more expensive ACARS packages come with a console that can receive short faxes or send basic messages. Depending on what an airline is willing to pay for, its planes will be able to take advantage of more and better ACARS features.

Okay. So can this technology tell us where Flight 370 is?

Not necessarily — it can really only tell us whether the plane is still functioning.

"Normally, ACARS doesn’t send an actual location," Waldock said. "They're sending essentially system data. They don't indicate altitude or direction. But as long as it’s pinging, you know the airplane is not down."

Investigators now say that based on ACARS information, Flight 370 deviated from its flight path and was in the air for hours after it ceased communications with air traffic controllers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/03/14/heres-how-we-know-mh-370-kept-flying-for-hours/

Not paying for the 'extra' channels doesn't mean you don't know the aircraft is still pinging. That's basic.

So how many 777 cockpits have you sat in and piloted? So, as I said, with so many peoples lives in jeopardy, I'll listen to the experts in the cockpit actually doing it as they speak to you.

by Guest Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:26 am

Those poor relatives are getting so frustrated and it might never be solved, how are they going to cope:

A news conference on the missing Malaysia Airlines plane has descended into chaos after two relatives of passengers attempted to stage a protest.

The pair were forcibly removed from Malaysian authorities' daily briefing to journalists after trying to unfurl a banner.

They were led away and shut in another room before being taken out of the hotel, with one being knocked over in the confusion.

Authorities said during the news conference that they had received more radar data, but that they were not permitted to reveal other countries' information.

They said reports from the Maldives that a "low-flying jumbo jet" had been spotted on the day the plane went missing had turned out to be false.

It comes after Thailand's military revealed its radar may have picked up flight MH370 heading back towards Kuala Lumpur just eight minutes after it lost contact with air traffic controllers.

They say they tracked the signal as the missing jet turned towards Butterworth and the Strait of Malacca, before it disappeared from their screens.

It took off from Kuala Lumpur at 12:40am on March 8 and its transponder, which allows air traffic controllers to identify and track it, ceased communicating at 1:20am.

The plane slipped off Malaysian civilian radar screens at 1:30am but continued to appear on its military radars until 2:15am before disappearing entirely.

Frustration is growing among relatives of the 239 people on board the plane at the lack of progress in the search.

Thailand's failure to quickly pass on possible information about the plane raises questions about the degree to which some countries are sharing their defence data.

When asked why it took so long to release the information, a spokesman said it raised no alarms because the signal was not heading toward Thailand and never entered Thai airspace.

Investigators will check Malaysian military radar data against the Thai data to see if they can narrow the search area.

Security agencies in countries with passengers on board have been asked to carry out background checks, but there have been no suspicious findings announced publicly so far.

China said investigations into the 154 Chinese citizens on board turned up no links to terrorism.

http://news.sky.com/story/1228252/missing-malaysia-jet-chaos-at-news-conference

That's part of the trouble, the Malaysians are having to rely on other countries giving them data once it was out of Malayasian air space, and then they are not allowed to reveal it. No wonder they are getting flack from all sides.

by Guest Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:32 am

Sassy wrote:Those poor relatives are getting so frustrated and it might never be solved, how are they going to cope:

A news conference on the missing Malaysia Airlines plane has descended into chaos after two relatives of passengers attempted to stage a protest.

The pair were forcibly removed from Malaysian authorities' daily briefing to journalists after trying to unfurl a banner.

They were led away and shut in another room before being taken out of the hotel, with one being knocked over in the confusion.

Authorities said during the news conference that they had received more radar data, but that they were not permitted to reveal other countries' information.

They said reports from the Maldives that a "low-flying jumbo jet" had been spotted on the day the plane went missing had turned out to be false.

It comes after Thailand's military revealed its radar may have picked up flight MH370 heading back towards Kuala Lumpur just eight minutes after it lost contact with air traffic controllers.

They say they tracked the signal as the missing jet turned towards Butterworth and the Strait of Malacca, before it disappeared from their screens.

It took off from Kuala Lumpur at 12:40am on March 8 and its transponder, which allows air traffic controllers to identify and track it, ceased communicating at 1:20am.

The plane slipped off Malaysian civilian radar screens at 1:30am but continued to appear on its military radars until 2:15am before disappearing entirely.

Frustration is growing among relatives of the 239 people on board the plane at the lack of progress in the search.

Thailand's failure to quickly pass on possible information about the plane raises questions about the degree to which some countries are sharing their defence data.

When asked why it took so long to release the information, a spokesman said it raised no alarms because the signal was not heading toward Thailand and never entered Thai airspace.

Investigators will check Malaysian military radar data against the Thai data to see if they can narrow the search area.

Security agencies in countries with passengers on board have been asked to carry out background checks, but there have been no suspicious findings announced publicly so far.

China said investigations into the 154 Chinese citizens on board turned up no links to terrorism.

http://news.sky.com/story/1228252/missing-malaysia-jet-chaos-at-news-conference

That's part of the trouble, the Malaysians are having to rely on other countries giving them data once it was out of Malayasian air space, and then they are not allowed to reveal it. No wonder they are getting flack from all sides.

the worse thing for anyone is not getting closure when losing someone close, if they just disappear, every time the phone rings or the door opens you expect to see them and that can go on forever, if you know they are dead and where they are at least you can grieve and move on, I am still hoping for the safe return of these people but I doubt it will ever happen...

by Original Quill Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:18 pm

Sassy wrote:
Original Quill wrote:During the extended pings period, what was happening was the satellite was picking up the fact that the aircraft was still alive. The satellite system is for commercial communication, not necessarily military. The ACAR system can be listened to by anyone who wants to pay the extra $$$ to subscribe to it. It's like cable TV. Apparently, the Malaysians didn't pay for extras, so they didn't know...they subscribed, but they didn't get the extra channels, so to speak.

Of course the American military pays the whole cable bill, so they were the ones who knew...that, plus Boeing Aircraft. But what they found out was the connection was data-less. All the satellite picked up was the aircraft's inquiry signal--no data because the circuit was pulled--which went on for hours. That's how they knew the aircraft was still flying.

All of this is continuing, developing news. So, nobody has the final word until the fat lady sings.

Frankly Quill you have that totally round your teeth, and when it comes to what happens with the ACAR system, I would rather watch an aviation expert sitting in a 777 compit, showing you exactly what happens as per Irn's link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26621169

With so many people lost, aviation experts are the ones in the know.

As for the ACAR system, the upgraded version would not have given them any more information, in fact the ACAR system does not plot actual location, but sends systems data. The aircraft continues to ping on a satellite system even when it is turned off, just because it is in the air and registers with the satellite.

What is this technology, and how does it work?

Investigators are focusing on data relayed by a system called ACARS, or Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System. In basic versions of the service, the airplane shares data automatically in short radio bursts with airline officials. ACARS allows the plane to send multiple types of messages, including information about fuel levels and engine status. In the case of Air France 447, which plunged into the ocean off the coast of Brazil in 2009, the doomed aircraft sent 29 ACARS transmissions warning of a problem before the plane crashed.

You mentioned basic implementations. There's more than one ACARS?

Think of it like a cable TV package. According to Bill Waldock, an air crash investigator and a professor at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, more expensive ACARS packages come with a console that can receive short faxes or send basic messages. Depending on what an airline is willing to pay for, its planes will be able to take advantage of more and better ACARS features.

Okay. So can this technology tell us where Flight 370 is?

Not necessarily — it can really only tell us whether the plane is still functioning.

"Normally, ACARS doesn’t send an actual location," Waldock said. "They're sending essentially system data. They don't indicate altitude or direction. But as long as it’s pinging, you know the airplane is not down."

Investigators now say that based on ACARS information, Flight 370 deviated from its flight path and was in the air for hours after it ceased communications with air traffic controllers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/03/14/heres-how-we-know-mh-370-kept-flying-for-hours/

Not paying for the 'extra' channels doesn't mean you don't know the aircraft is still pinging. That's basic.

So how many 777 cockpits have you sat in and piloted? So, as I said, with so many peoples lives in jeopardy, I'll listen to the experts in the cockpit actually doing it as they speak to you.

That whole post adds nothing to what I said. I like your new avvy, btw.

Do you remember once I mentioned I used to give my undergraduate classes a certain lecture on bull and cow? There's bull, and there's cow. We all know what bull is. But, cow is just a collection of facts, with no synthesizing principle or thesis.

You are still overloaded with cow.

by Guest Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:35 pm

Crikey that made me laugh. The avatar is a painting I did some time ago, I'm glad you like it.

Oh it added Quill, and as for the bull and cow, weeeeelll, we know you talk a load of old bull without you having to admit to it. Rolling Eyes

As I asked, how many 777s have you piloted?

I prefer facts from experts. At the moment, anything on top of the actually facts is waffle, nobody knows. With 26 countries looking and a search area larger than Australia, all the hypothesising in the world won't get us any nearer the truth. It is, for everyone, especially the friends and family, exceedingly frustrating.

by gerber Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:44 pm

Expert Believes Missing Malaysian Airlines Flight Being Held For Ransom

WASHINGTON (CBS NEWS/CBSDC) — Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 is no closer to being found as the disappearance of the Boeing 777 carrying 239 people nears its two-week mark.
Pilot suicide, terrorism and hijacking are some possibilities that are being theorized to the plane as the search area expanded to 7 million square miles. White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said last week that “there are a number of possible scenarios that are being investigated as to what happened to the flight.”
Rick Mathews, of the National Center for Security & Preparedness at the Rockefeller College of Public Affairs & Policy of SUNY Albany, tells CBSDC that there is another theory that should be put into play: the missing flight is being held for ransom by a group of individuals, maybe including people from the flight crew.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/03/19/expert-believes-missing-malaysian-airlines-flight-being-held-for-ransom/

I also find it incredible that Indonesia is not allowing search planes to fly into their airspace.

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