Coronavirus updates (gelico's original thread)

[gelico]

First topic message reminder :

seems to be spreading rapidly

tests show it started in a animal market

[Original Quill]

I certainly agree with you about being civil, Ben.  But did you ever notice that the "people" you reference are not JulesV, Andy or Brutus, et al, but the cabal of deep conservatives on this site.

You may think it's about Wolf's verbiage, but any independent observer would recognize it as a typical left/right division.  They think they smell blood with wolf, and start wolf-packing when they think they've got your ear (no pun intended on wolf & wolf-packing).  Believe me, admin only encourages them when y'all go after only wolf.

So what you’re saying is that wolf doesn’t go after the people he agrees with and/or LW posters?

Huh? So that makes it okay then? You don’t always agree with people but I’ve never seen you be as abusive as Wolf

Why is that?

Wolf uses harsh language. I'm a lawyer and I know what is a threat and what is not. Wolf has never threatened anyone. He uses adjectives. Do you know what adjectives are? They are harmless descriptive modifiers. He doesn't say XXX, I will kill you. He doesn't even say, if you were here, I'd beat the sheit outta you. He just uses rude modifiers.

If y'all didn't make a big thing of it, I reckon he would stop it. Because it's so innocent, I have to believe that your response is just RW'ers seeing an opportunity to obliquely attack an opponent. RW'ers are good at oblique language because they don't want the majority to know that they are working for special interests, and against the people.

[Tommy Monk]

Other countries have done much more testing...


And many people here may have died from the virus but not tested for it so not recorded as a Corona death...


I have always said where the source of figures are... And if anyone bothered to read the details on the site then they would be well aware of the possible inaccuracies both ways in the figures.


I have also said that you can remove some countries figures from the calculation, countries that you can't trust the figures of like China and Iran etc... And you coukd also remove UK figures if you think we have vastly undertested the true numbers of cases... But the figures for recovery/death on cases that have reached an outcome are still pretty grim reading...

[Tommy Monk]

Don't forget that many people are dying from this but as not tested for it, they are not recorded as Corona death.

[Guest]

So in other words you admit the stats you have quoted aren't worth a light because they are so incomplete it renders them meaningless.
The ONLY stat that may be of interest is that those who were admitted to hospital in a serious condition that merited testing may have a mortality rate of about 20%.
It DOES NOT mean the mortality rate of corona virus is 20%, it is still probably around 1-2%.

[Guest]

So in other words you admit the stats you have quoted aren't worth a light because they are so incomplete it renders them meaningless.
The ONLY stat that may be of interest is that those who were admitted to hospital in a serious condition that merited testing may have a mortality rate of about 20%.
It DOES NOT mean the mortality rate of corona virus is 20%, it is still probably around 1-2%.

Nobody claimed the mortality rate from the virus is 20%, for crying out loud. Why do you consistently get this wrong?

In regard to the Uk your point has merit but not elsewhere. When more tests are being carried out elsewhere in the world. Its really only the UK where people admitted to hospital are tested. Elsewhere they have test systems in place outside hospitals

The mortality rate based on "closed" cases is 21%.

That is a relevant stat, based on the information of known and closed cases

That does not mean the mortality rate of the virus is 21%

Its the mortality rate of closed cases of those who have been tested globally.

The true figures is impossible to tell and likely the mortality rate for the virus is around 3-5%. As there is a variance between the many nations

So the figures are not meaningless. As they provide details for experts to at least make predictions from. To help countries with an idea of where and when they will reach their peak periods. I am sure they would like to know exactly how many cases there actually is, but they have to work off some details. Hence they are far from meaningless but vitally important. For nations going forward in tackling this global issue

Hope this finally helps you understand the data now

[Guest]

CLOSED CASES
285,873
Cases which had an outcome:
227,735 (80%)
Recovered / Discharged

58,138 (20%)
Deaths

What is Point of this 20%, then?

Scaremongeri g with statistics.
I cannot recall either Tommy or Gelico outright admitting the OVERALL mortality rate is, as you say, around 2%.
If you are not going to put out meaningful stats, don't put anything out.

[Guest]

CLOSED CASES
285,873
Cases which had an outcome:
227,735 (80%)
Recovered / Discharged

58,138 (20%)
Deaths

What is Point of this 20%, then?

To make calculations from, in order when we can return to some semblance of normality in life.

I would have thought that was obvious

[Guest]

The only way to get a true ( or more accurate statistic) if to include in the next send us/ national survey the following question " Did you, or do you believe you had the coronavirus or symptoms of it?"
It can then be extrapolated after it has finally gone away, how many got it , or think they got it, set against the know numbers who died from it.
Unless EVERYONE who has it or has had it are included ,, the mortality rates are pointless.

[Maddog]

The only way to get a true ( or more accurate statistic) if to include in the next send us/ national survey the following question " Did you, or do you believe you had the coronavirus or symptoms of it?"
It can then be extrapolated after it has finally gone away, how many got it  , or think they got it, set against the know numbers who died from it.
Unless EVERYONE who has it  or has had it are included ,, the mortality rates are pointless.

That won't work.

Most people tested think they have it.

Most tests come back negative.

All that would tell you is how many people think they had it.

[Tommy Monk]

They are the known confirmed case figures...


Where are your figures ..???


Or are you going to just pick some meaningless random numbers based on no cases whatsoever...!!!???


Yeh... That'd be a more accurate way of doing things now... Wouldn't it...!!!???

[Tommy Monk]

The mortality rate of confirmed cases that have reached their conclusion are the figures that I have been quoting, from the link that I have also been quoting as the source of these figures... And this web site is showing the official figures of each country...



I have been clear on that throughout.



We can all have a conversation about the numbers not included in the official figures... plenty of people are suspected of having had it and recovered while not counted... Just as plenty have died because of it but not confirmed as victims of it too...



And there is also the huge number of new confirmed cases that are yet to reach a survive/die conclusion too... Which cannot be counted in either category of survivor/dying until the virus has run its course in all of them too...

[Original Quill]

Not really.  We've had intel on the spread of the disease since January 3rd of this year.  However, Fantasy-Donnie refused to believe it, and still he is announcing that it will all be over by Easter.

really quill?

seems odd.

Chinese government was warned about this virus from a doctor (who since died). on 18th January and advised the government that they needed to act fast.  At that time there was only about 40 cases and 1 person had died. He was silenced by the CCP.  They didn't act until 5 days later on 23rd January.  even then the virus had spread in that time and even then there were 670 cases and 18 people dead.

How could you have had intel on a virus when it hadn't even started yet

3rd January wouldn't have been possible

Remember when this    was the discussion?  Now look...

Intelligence report warned of coronavirus crisis as early as November: Sources

JOSH MARGOLIN and JAMES GORDON MEEK
Good Morning America•April 8, 2020

As far back as late November, U.S. intelligence officials were warning that a contagion was sweeping through China’s Wuhan region, changing the patterns of life and business and posing a threat to the population, according to four sources briefed on the secret reporting.

Concerns about what is now known to be the novel coronavirus pandemic were detailed in a November intelligence report by the military's National Center for Medical Intelligence (NCMI), according to two officials familiar with the document’s contents.

The report was the result of analysis of wire and computer intercepts, coupled with satellite images. It raised alarms because an out-of-control disease would pose a serious threat to U.S. forces in Asia -- forces that depend on the NCMI’s work. And it paints a picture of an American government that could have ramped up mitigation and containment efforts far earlier to prepare for a crisis poised to come home.

"Analysts concluded it could be a cataclysmic event," one of the sources said of the NCMI’s report. "It was then briefed multiple times to" the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon’s Joint Staff and the White House.

From that warning in November, the sources described repeated briefings through December for policy-makers and decision-makers across the federal government as well as the National Security Council at the White House. All of that culminated with a detailed explanation of the problem that appeared in the President’s Daily Brief of intelligence matters in early January, the sources said. For something to have appeared in the PDB, it would have had to go through weeks of vetting and analysis, according to people who have worked on presidential briefings in both Republican and Democratic administrations.

"The timeline of the intel side of this may be further back than we’re discussing," the source said of preliminary reports from Wuhan. "But this was definitely being briefed beginning at the end of November as something the military needed to take a posture on."

The NCMI report was made available widely to people authorized to access intelligence community alerts. Following the report’s release, other intelligence community bulletins began circulating through confidential channels across the government around Thanksgiving, the sources said. Those analyses said China’s leadership knew the epidemic was out of control even as it kept such crucial information from foreign governments and public health agencies.

"It would be a significant alarm that would have been set off by this," former Deputy Assistant Defense Secretary Mick Mulroy, now an ABC News contributor, said of the NCMI report. "And it would have been something that would be followed up by literally every intelligence-collection agency."

Mulroy, who previously served as a senior official at the CIA, said NCMI does serious work that senior government leaders do not ignore.

"Medical intelligence takes into account all source information -- imagery intelligence, human intelligence, signals intelligence," Mulroy said. "Then there’s analysis by people who know those specific areas. So for something like this to have come out, it has been reviewed by experts in the field. They’re taking together what those pieces of information mean and then looking at the potential for an international health crisis."

NCMI is a component of the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency. Together, the agencies’ core responsibilities are to ensure U.S. military forces have the information they need to carry out their missions -- both offensively and defensively. It is a critical priority for the Pentagon to keep American service members healthy on deployments.

Asked about the November warning last Sunday on ABC’s "This Week," Defense Secretary Mark Esper told Chief Anchor George Stephanopoulos, "I can't recall, George. But we have many people who watch this closely. We have the premier infectious disease research institute in America, within the United States Army. So, our people who work these issues directly watch this all the time."

Pressing the secretary, Stephanopoulos asked, "So, you would have known if there was briefed to the National Security Council in December, wouldn't you?"

Esper said, "Yes. I'm not aware of that."

Trump, and his adminsitration, were receiving intelligence reports on the Trumpvirus threat as early as November of 2019.

It appears the tail wags the dog as Trump wanted to go into the election year with a good economy and no problems.  You don't always get what you want.  So, what does Trump do?  Lie, lie, deny, lie!

But the Trumpvirus isn't an adversary, it's a fact.  Ever since, Trump has been spinning his lies according to the bad news d'jour.  When he isn't lying, he's wishing and dreaming a wonder drug that will make it all go away.  Interesting...lies and denials, when turned to the future, turn into wishes and dreams. Not surprising, for one who was brought up to believe money grows on trees.

We could have had real data, if only Trump had learned to read.  He had notice, in his briefings, back to last year.  How embarrassing for a president who had just disbanded the Pandemic Response Team, and defunded the CDC and Department of Health.  What to do?  What to do?  Well, why not Lie, lie, deny, lie.

Problem is, a disease is steady, on course and persistent in it's way.  It doesn't respond to threats and bullying, and it isn't a Republican.  This guy fookin' knew, long before any of us, and he ignored it because it was inconvenient to his travel plans.

[nicko]

I read on the Net how this virus was spread, Chinese Scientists developing viruse's infected Bats. When the Bats died they sold them on the "Wet" Markets to make money, as they are poorly paid ! Could this be right, what do members think ?

[Original Quill]

I read on the Net how this virus was spread, Chinese Scientists developing viruse's infected Bats. When the Bats died they sold them on the "Wet" Markets to make money,  as they are poorly paid ! Could this be right, what do members think ?

How are you going to stop it as long as capitalist, auto-individualism is the code? Public protection comes only from a unified code, reduced to regulations, and as we've seen...RW'ers hate regulations.

Selling dead, diseased bats, is in the finest spirit of individual initiative and the profit motive.

[Guest]

And somebody please tell Tommy I am not another poster. Always have been, always will be Brutus. I have known Beekeeper/Wolfie for for many years .

[Maddog]

I read on the Net how this virus was spread, Chinese Scientists developing viruse's infected Bats. When the Bats died they sold them on the "Wet" Markets to make money,  as they are poorly paid ! Could this be right, what do members think ?

It more than likely started in a bat, jumped to an intermediary animal, like a cat, and then jumped to humans.

[Original Quill]

I read on the Net how this virus was spread, Chinese Scientists developing viruse's infected Bats. When the Bats died they sold them on the "Wet" Markets to make money,  as they are poorly paid ! Could this be right, what do members think ?

It more than likely started in a bat, jumped to an intermediary animal, like a cat, and then jumped to humans.  

That's the other thing: stay at least 6-feet away from your cat!!

[eddie]

And somebody please tell Tommy I am not another poster. Always have been, always will be Brutus. I have known Beekeeper/Wolfie for for many years .

Duly noted. Don’t worry, I’m not keen on posters accusing others of being somebody else. I’ve told tommy on another thread.
Please let me know if this continues as I don’t see everything.

[Guest]

Thanx Eddie. Appreciated.
Not sure who the other guy is even!

[eddie]

Thanx Eddie. Appreciated.
Not sure who the other guy is even!

No worries. Just keep being you, right? The truth will always out.

[Tommy Monk]

Maybe now "Brutus" is back... Still waiting for him to explain his false claim about that journalists article...!?


He either didn't read it but was just repeating a lie that someone else had told him... So is a gullible fool... Or he was deliberately lying about it...


Still waiting for him to explain whether he is a gullible fool or a lying twat...!!!???

[eddie]

Tommy, wrong thread.

[Tommy Monk]

Bit he has already run away on that thread... And accuses me of lying on other threads without any justification whatsoever...


So I'll keep asking the question wherever I see 'brutus' posting... Until I get an answer from him somewhere...


And so everyone can see what he is!

[eddie]

No. You won’t. You can’t hound a poster on every thread.
Be patient. He will answer or he won’t.

[Syl]

It more than likely started in a bat, jumped to an intermediary animal, like a cat, and then jumped to humans.  

That's the other thing: stay at least 6-feet away from your cat!!

Wiser for the cat to stay away from it's owner.
So far a  Tiger, possibly several, plus cat's and dog's have been infected with corono by humans.....no reports that it's worked the other way round yet.

[Maddog]

That's the other thing: stay at least 6-feet away from your cat!!

Wiser for the cat to stay away from it's owner.
So far a  Tiger, possibly several, plus cat's and dog's have been infected with corono by humans.....no reports that it's worked the other way round yet.

Well, a human got it from an animal.

China is cracking down on eating cats. I think they have a pretty good idea what happened. Could be a bat infected at a cat and someone butchered that cat which got them or some other "meal" cross contaminated.

I think cooking the cat would kill the virus, but it's easy to get infected while butchering an infected animal.

[Victorismyhero]

The Chinese have forgotten one of the prime tenets of hunting.....

you NEVER......EVER....eat a predator of the same "class" as yourself....

so predatory fish...fine
predatory lizards likewise
non toxic predatory amphibians ....fine
predatory birds,,,ummmm...not really a good idea
predatory and scavenger mammals....NO WAY .....................

[Original Quill]

The Chinese have forgotten one of the prime tenets of hunting.....

you NEVER......EVER....eat a predator of the same "class" as yourself....

so predatory fish...fine
predatory lizards likewise
non toxic predatory amphibians ....fine
predatory birds,,,ummmm...not really a good idea
predatory and scavenger mammals....NO WAY .....................

Xlnt point.

[Tommy Monk]

Jeremy Warner from the Telegrapgh is rather cheerful about the virus, claiming the cull on the elderly will boost the economy.

Hope he gets it. Chinless wonder.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/13/dont-surprised-virus-delays-brexit/

I have read the full article at the link you posted above... And I didn't see anything regarding your claim above...!


Are you completely lying or are you just repeating bullshit that someone else has told you, without actually seeing for yourself if it is true or not...!?


Here is the full article...



Don't be surprised if this virus delays Brexit

Jeremy Warner

Jeremy Warner

13 March 2020 • 7:00am


As market chaos points to a global recession, calls will grow to extend the transition period

Finally it gets serious. Even with the explosion of deaths in Northern Italy and the shock and awe economic response announced by the UK Chancellor, Rishi Sunak, in his Budget this week, it was still possible to dismiss the coronavirus as a passing panic that by early summer might have burnt itself out.

But Donald Trump’s clumsy and apparently spiteful response in banning European passenger flights takes things to a whole new level and pretty much guarantees that the economic consequences transmogrify from a pronounced slowdown into a global recession.

That in any case is what the markets are now signalling. The waves from this virus just keep on growing, threatening wide-ranging geopolitical consequences on top of the social, economic and financial effects.

Could Covid-19 yet derail Brexit along with everything else? As we saw from this week’s Budget, this is a Government determined to keep its promises, and primary among them is that Britain leaves Europe’s single market and customs union at the end of this year come what may, with or without a free trade deal.

Up until now, this has seemed the right negotiating stance, but is it still credible in light of the gathering economic storm clouds of the Covid-19 outbreak?

It might be possible partially to cushion the UK economy from the shock of the virus, as Mr Sunak tried to in this week’s Budget, but to pile the additional challenge of a no-deal exit from the single market on top would be quite an ask.

Face to face meetings could soon become impossible, making progress on a free trade deal hard to achieve, and with bigger fish to fry, the Europeans might in any case simply decide unilaterally to terminate the talks until the coronavirus crisis subsides.

In such circumstances, would the UK simply plough ahead regardless or, with force majeure as an excuse, extend the transition? There are two ways of looking at this choice.

One is that preparations for a no-deal Brexit mean that, by chance, the UK economy is in remarkably good shape to withstand any prolonged international quarantine. We are already braced for much tougher border controls.

What is more, if the virus is still raging as we approach the end of the transition, a little extra economic harm from falling out of the single market without a free trade agreement is scarcely going to matter very much. It’ll all get lost in the wash.

In any case, if the virus causes the European economy to collapse into recession, sparking renewed crisis in the single currency, Brussels won’t want to pile on the agony by risking an acrimonious trade rupture with the UK. Brexit will become seen as a comparatively trivial matter to be settled in a needs-must, least-damage manner. They’ll cut a deal to avoid further nuisance.

Yet the other way of looking at the choice is that there would be no face to lose in agreeing an extension if the world is by then still gripped by the natural disaster of a killer disease. In the scale of things, a minor delay to Brexit would be of no significance.

Already, then, the crisis is raising major political issues on top of the more immediate concerns around public health and the economy. For all political leaders, the virus is a potentially existential threat. Get the response wrong, and citizens will find ways of punishing them just as severely as if they have failed on the economy, or for that matter Brexit.

If infection rates and deaths begin to spiral out of control, Boris Johnson will be in some difficulty, even with his newly won “stonking” majority, having decided not to go for the full scale lockdown imposed elsewhere.

Mindful of the criticism George W Bush was subjected to for his handling of Hurricane Katrina, meanwhile, President Trump is said to have become completely obsessed with the politics of what could be his own Katrina moment.

It has to be said that so far his approach to the crisis has been less than exemplary. A combination of a mishandled public response, a plunging stock market, a contracting economy and a Democratic Party that seems finally to have come to its senses in rejecting “mad Bernie” as its presidential nominee, could easily sink Trump’s chances of re-election for a second term.

For a President who measures his own success against the yardstick of stock market performance things are looking grim. One more week like this, and the S&P 500 will have given up all the gains made during his presidency.

Catastrophes come in many different forms; the coronavirus pandemic is obviously a very different kind of economic event from the financial crisis a decade ago – the disease an act of God and the latter wholly man-made. Yet the two may turn out to be not so dissimilar in their seminal repercussions.

Such events change the world, just when you are least expecting it. This is no passing hysteria; for myriad reasons, it will be remembered for a long time to come.







So... Can you point out the bit that you claim is there...???



If not... Tell us whether you are a liar or an incompetent gullible fool who just repeats the lies of others...!!!???

[Tommy Monk]

Tommy, wrong thread.

This is the correct thread... As seen above... I asked the question a few pages back...


And have copied and pasted it above...

[Original Quill]

Tommy, wrong  thread.

This is the correct thread... As seen above... I asked the question a few pages back...

And have copied and pasted it above...

Tom, being spiteful is not helping.

[Tommy Monk]

I would say that making up nasty accusations against innocent people is spiteful...

[Original Quill]

Still no tests in the US.  Less than 1% have been tested in the US.

Interesting question: how can you say what the death rate is when they don't test dead bodies?  I mean, if they don't know who had it, they don't know who died from it, do they?

Trump has lied repeatedly, saying that anyone who wants a test can get one.  But that is not true.  Most are denied any testing, and Trump makes test kits scarce so he can skew the statistics.

It appears Trump doesn't want testing because it would reveal that many more have died on his watch.

But the fact is, we can't open back up because: (1) Trump didn't close us down. Remember? He abdicated to the state governors, saying every man for himself. They are the ones who mandated the stay-in-place orders. Since it is their law, they are the only ones who can reverse the law.

And, (2) without testing, who knows what standards apply? Who is sick? Who was sick? Who is going to be sick? Who is immune? Who is the next victim? Who can go back to work? How can we say the conditions are ripe to open up again, when we don't really know what the conditions are?

So, we will remain a sick nation, closed down, a pending Depression, and there's nothing we can do about it because Trump won't let us know how we are doing.

[Tommy Monk]

As I've said on this thread already... There will be many people who have had the virus but not confirmed by testing... And there will be many deaths from the virus but either not tested confirmed cases or just listed with a different cause of death...


I'm pretty sure that I had it 2 months ago (not tested)... It did me in for a few days with chronic fatigue and body aches and pains, a bit of feeling hot and cold etc, zero appetite, then as that started to go it turned into a really nasty sore throat that felt like swallowing broken glass, a bit short of breath, and a cough...


This went on for about 9 days in total... Although it took another couple of weeks to get my strength back...


My brother has just had it too (again not tested)... He had pretty much the same symptoms as me and said just walking to the toilet made him out of breath...

[Original Quill]

As I've said on this thread already... There will be many people who have had the virus but not confirmed by testing... And there will be many deaths from the virus but either not tested confirmed cases or just listed with a different cause of death...

I'm pretty sure that I had it 2 months ago (not tested)... It did me in for a few days with chronic fatigue and body aches and pains, a bit of feeling hot and cold etc, zero appetite, then as that started to go it turned into a really nasty sore throat that felt like swallowing broken glass, a bit short of breath, and a cough...

This went on for about 9 days in total... Although it took another couple of weeks to get my strength back...

My brother has just had it too (again not tested)... He had pretty much the same symptoms as me and said just walking to the toilet made him out of breath...

Back here in the US, the new blood test out of Stanford University will tell you if you've had it.

My problem is, without testing how will we know where/when to reopen from the lockdown? Trump is the one doing everything to minimize testing because it will show things have been worse than we imagined on his watch...he just doesn't want people to know.

Yet, if we continue to lock down, the economy goes into the toilet. Trump was expecting to run for his second term based on how well the economy is doing. If it tanks, he's got no platform.

I think Trump is gambling. He wants to skate a thin line between dissuading testing and reopening commerce. That would make the call a guess, really…a toss of the dice. If we were to reopen, and the virus spiked again, it would be devastating to the economy...and the death knell to Trump's electoral chances.

As luck would have it, it's beginning to look like the Trump incompetence is our bright star. He has had responses in two phases: (1) denial, and minimize the threat; and (2) abdicate, tossing the authority to the state governors so that he (Trump) cannot be blamed. In the abdication phase, Trump has relinquished authority, so that it may not matter what he says. People will look to state governors, or play it on their own, as to when to venture out or return to work.

[Tommy Monk]

The test to show if you've had it, is the one we really need.

[Maddog]

The test to show if you've had it, is the one we really need.

CNN)Antibody tests that would verify whether a person recently had the novel coronavirus could be available within a week, according to the nation's top infectious disease expert.

"Within a period of a week or so, we're going to have a rather large number of tests that are available," Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said on CNN's "New Day" Friday morning.

[Maddog]

Also, John Hopkins University is working on a treatment that involves using blood from those already infected. It will be available soon.

[Original Quill]

But, antibody testing will do nothing about the administration suppressing any kind of testing, so as to keep from the public about how bad it is.

Tests of some kind have always been achievable, but not available.  Trump suppressed testing, and availability of test kits, because it would show the damage caused by his own abdication.

[Original Quill]

"Within a period of a week or so, we're going to have a rather large number of tests that are available," Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said on CNN's "New Day" Friday morning.

By his own admission, Fauci's statements are aspirational science, not political. The availability of tests is being held up for political reasons, not scientific reasons. Fauci's predictions are compromised by top level administration officials.

[Star24]

I hope this is the right thread to put this.
I read in one of the newspapers yesterday
that cat owners were going to be advised to keep
their cats indoors, because cats that go outside a lot
roam to different houses.

[Maddog]

I hope this is the right thread to put this.
I read in one of the newspapers yesterday
that cat owners were going to be advised to keep
their cats indoors, because cats that go outside a lot
roam to different houses.

Cats should stay inside anyway.

They are a menace to birds.

[Victorismyhero]

we got 3 cats that go outside...one dives out...goes has a crap and is back in again inside 2 mins....then goes to sleep behind my monitor where it lies farting all day....
one is a big fat lump of a thing that looks to see what the weather is like...if its warm and sunny it goes outside craps and then falls asleep on my wood shed roof and spends the day there baking in the heat, if its not warm and sunny it just looks "meh" craps in her tray and goes to sleep on the sofa...and gets fatter.....
the third goes out, craps and then wanders round the garden for a bit to see if there is anything worth murdering and eats it then pukes in the kitchen..or if not comes back in and goes to sleep in the bedroom window, sporadically raising a metaphorical feline digit to the passers by.......
the 4th cat we have is a sphinx, bald as a coot, and thinks outside can damn well STAY outside, and never shall she and it meet.....

[Victorismyhero]

I hope this is the right thread to put this.
I read in one of the newspapers yesterday
that cat owners were going to be advised to keep
their cats indoors, because cats that go outside a lot
roam to different houses.

Cats should stay inside anyway.

They are a menace to birds.

not as big a menace as big business and car owners.....

[Victorismyhero]

and nowhere NEAR as big a menace as crows, magpies and grey squirrels

[Maddog]

Cats should stay inside anyway.

They are a menace to birds.

not as big a menace as big business and car owners.....

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/dec/10/cats-killing-birds-gardens-david-attenborough

Sir David may disagree with you.

[Syl]

I hope this is the right thread to put this.
I read in one of the newspapers yesterday
that cat owners were going to be advised to keep
their cats indoors, because cats that go outside a lot
roam to different houses.

Cats should stay inside anyway.

They are a menace to birds.

I feel sorry for house cats, their instinct is to be out, exploring and honing up their hunter instincts....or at least they should have the choice to stay in, not be forced to.

Bad news that pets can be infected by their owners...or Tigers be infected by their keepers, so far no pet has been known to infect a human.

[Maddog]

Cats should stay inside anyway.

They are a menace to birds.

I feel sorry for house cats, their instinct is to be out, exploring and honing up their hunter instincts....or at least they should have the choice to stay in, not be forced to.

Bad news that pets can be infected by their owners...or Tigers be infected by their keepers, so far no pet has been known to infect a human.

Cat owners should just buy mice and turn them loose in their house.

Problem solved.

Of course I think it's only fair to allow a coyote or two to be turned loose in the house too, so that the cat feels a little of it's own medicine.

[Syl]

I feel sorry for house cats, their instinct is to be out, exploring and honing up their hunter instincts....or at least they should have the choice to stay in, not be forced to.

Bad news that pets can be infected by their owners...or Tigers be infected by their keepers, so far no pet has been known to infect a human.

Cat owners should just buy mice and turn them loose in their house.

Problem solved.

Of course I think it's only fair to allow a coyote or two to be turned loose in the house too, so that the cat feels a little of it's own medicine.  

My little adopted cat, (we share her with the neighbours) was worse than bloody useless when we had a mouse problem a few years ago, I swear she wouldn't have twitched a whisker if one had danced in front of her, but to see her stalking the birds is wonderful. She never catches any, she is too old and out of condition, but al her instincts are still there.

[Original Quill]

Cats should stay inside anyway.

They are a menace to birds.

not as big a menace as big business and car owners.....

A few years back, I recall that some interested group rated the best predator (not capitalism or cars) as being the common house cat. They supposedly kill more prey than any other animal.

My cat--an extremely bitchy female--often meets big bucks on a deer trail next to my study. I watch. First, she lets him know that she is a carnivore...and regardless of size, he is food. If that doesn't do it, she takes out after him. I love to see this 10-pound cat taking after an 8-point buck. It's in the attitude.

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