Coronavirus updates (gelico's original thread)

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Post by gelico on Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:15 pm

First topic message reminder :

seems to be spreading rapidly

tests show it started in a animal market

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:41 pm




Cases by local area

Listed by local authority for England, health board for Scotland. Statistics for Wales and Northern Ireland are not broken down by area
Southwark 110
Greater Glasgow and Clyde 110
Hampshire 107
Lambeth 103
Westminster 99
Wandsworth 98
Barnet 76
Brent 75
Croydon 68
Kensington and Chelsea 66
Hertfordshire 61
Harrow 60
Surrey 57
Birmingham 54
Ealing 54
Bromley 52
Cumbria 52
Derbyshire 50
Lanarkshire 49
Sheffield 48
Enfield 48
Lewisham 47
Camden 46
Hackney and City of London 45
Islington 45
Merton 45
Haringey 44
Lothian 44
Tower Hamlets 43
Essex 43
Newham 42
Greenwich 41
Nottinghamshire 41
Oxfordshire 40
Wolverhampton 39
Buckinghamshire 39
Hounslow 38
Hammersmith and Fulham 36
Hillingdon 34
Tayside 34
Kent 32
Bexley 31
Devon 30
Redbridge 27
Forth Valley 27
Manchester 26
Lancashire 26
Staffordshire 25
Shetland 24
Waltham Forest 23
Nottingham 22
Gloucestershire 22
Stockport 21
Newcastle upon Tyne 21
Barking and Dagenham 21
Ayrshire and Arran 21
Slough 20
Walsall 20
Leicestershire 20
Grampian 20
Tameside 19
Havering 19
Sutton 19
West Sussex 19
Dudley 18
Wiltshire 17
Leeds 17
Kingston upon Thames 17
Norfolk 17
Northamptonshire 17
Cornwall and Isles of Scilly 16
Richmond upon Thames 16
Cambridgeshire 16
East Riding of Yorkshire 15
Trafford 15
Brighton and Hove 14
Oldham 14
Liverpool 14
North Yorkshire 14
Bristol, City of 13
South Gloucestershire 13
Windsor and Maidenhead 13
Portsmouth 13
Bolton 13
Suffolk 13
Warwickshire 13
Dumfries and Galloway 13
Fife 13
Derby 12
Wokingham 12
Rochdale 12
North Tyneside 12
Leicester 11
Medway 11
Sandwell 11
Torbay 10
Cheshire West and Chester 10
Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole 10
Bury 10
Salford 10
Somerset 10
Worcestershire 10
Borders 10
Stockton-on-Tees 9
Cheshire East 9
Wirral 9
Bradford 9
Lincolnshire 9
Central Bedfordshire 8
East Sussex 8
Highland 8
Plymouth 7
Reading 7
Milton Keynes 7
Southampton 7
County Durham 7
Northumberland 7
Dorset 7
Sefton 7
Barnsley 7
Coventry 7
York 6
Thurrock 6
West Berkshire 6
Wigan 6
Kirklees 6
Wakefield 6
Halton 5
Blackpool 5
Bath and North East Somerset 5
Swindon 5
Southend-on-Sea 5
Sunderland 5
Calderdale 5
Warrington 4
North Somerset 4
Luton 4
Rotherham 4
Herefordshire, County of 3
Bracknell Forest 3
Shropshire 3
Knowsley 3
Doncaster 3
Solihull 3
Hartlepool 2
Redcar and Cleveland 2
Darlington 2
Stoke-on-Trent 2
Peterborough 2
Isle of Wight 2
St. Helens 2
South Tyneside 2
Middlesbrough 1
Blackburn with Darwen 1
Kingston upon Hull, City of 1
North Lincolnshire 1
Bedford 1
Gateshead 1


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Post by gelico on Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:38 pm




21 January
Total at the end of the day: 329 cases, 6 deaths


21 February
75,640 confirmed cases worldwide, including 2,121 fatalities.


21 March
307,496 confirmed cases worldwide, including 13,102 fatalities.





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Post by gelico on Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:53 pm




https://twitter.com/i/status/1223647176070508550



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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:16 am




Closed Cases

108,851
Cases which had an outcome:

95,797 (88%)
Recovered / Discharged

13,054 (12%)
Deaths







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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:15 pm

A very hard-hitting video:


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Post by gelico on Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:19 pm




418,995 cases
18,696 deaths

worldwide (china still not showing any rise as such)


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Post by gelico on Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:20 pm




meanwhile there will be loads more of this sort of stuff lol,


https://twitter.com/errjustsaying/status/1242551358269665282




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Post by eddie on Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:31 pm

A 21 year old female with NO underlying health conditions died in the UK

That’s worrying. And really so very sad.

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Post by gelico on Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:49 pm




472,009 cases
21,282 deaths




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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:21 am

eddie wrote:A 21 year old female with NO underlying health conditions died in the UK

That’s worrying. And really so very sad.



If you think that this is the first case of someone dying from this virus, who is not 'old and with underlying health conditions'... Then you don't know the truth about what is really going on...


But you would be concerned and worried about all the victims of this virus if you really believed that all lives matter...







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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:24 am





Closed Cases

135,002
Cases which had an outcome:

113,817 (84%)
Recovered / Discharged

21,185 (16%)
Deaths




Maybe Wolfie can post now about how I'm making up figures and scaremongering...!!!???



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Post by gelico on Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:39 am



533,807 cases
24,172 deaths



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Post by gelico on Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:48 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:It's now being called SARS-CoV-2 (severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2)

Over here there's is not a problem yet.  



and only a month later you have in the USA some 85,000 cases and 1,297 deaths and a further 1,384 in a critical condition.  so far only 2,252 have 'recovered'.

all happened a bit quick


Last edited by gelico on Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:32 pm

gelico wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Over here there's is not a problem yet.  

and only a month later you have in the USA some 85,000 cases and 1,297 deaths and a further 1,384 in a critical condition.  so far only 252 have 'recovered'.

all happened a bit quick

Not really.  We've had intel on the spread of the disease since January 3rd of this year.  However, Fantasy-Donnie refused to believe it, and still he is announcing that it will all be over by Easter.

We also were well aware that we were unprepared for any pandemic, since Donnie disbanded the Pandemic Response Team of the NSA in 2018.

Dr. Obama had studied the entire matter of a pandemic back in the ebola days, and written an entire book on what to do if another pandemic came along.  Dr. Obama also put together the said Pandemic Response Team, being a panel of ready-made consultants.  Not only was the present administration given an organization to tell him what to do in the event of an outbreak, but it was given written instructions, fgs.  Donnie tossed it all away.

Trump, as usual, is now trying to rewrite the story, saying that the Covid-19 pandemic isn’t real.  Primarily, his focus is on what the pandemic is doing to the economy, since he had hoped to cash in on the good economic numbers in the pending election.  Other than that, he doesn't have a very good record...and if the economy tanks he has no other accomplishment to recommend him.  (Small wonder that his life's work involves six bankruptcies.)

Only, rewriting the story doesn’t work.  Covid-19 has a mind of its own.  So, he ignores reality and blames the media for talking about it.  As if …shhhhh, don’t talk about Covid-19, is the answer.  He has limited testing in this country for the same reason: it will show how inadequate and incompetent he is.

The result of all this is that the administrative response was woefully inadequate, despite Obama's attempts to walk them through it in baby steps.  Contributing factors were that Trump, himself, is totally incurious, and reads at a 4th grade level.  Trump has deliberately sabotaged our defenses, saying the enemy isn't real.  Some war-time president…at least the French were realists when they threw up their arms and surrendered.

So, the world suffers while Trump dithers.  Obama tried to teach him how to ride a bicycle, but he threw the whole thing away because he didn't (and still doesn't) understand the concept.

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Post by Thorin on Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:07 pm

This is why I have not posted of late. When the world is facing a global disaster, we have cretins like Quill. Use this as a platform to cast blame and make the most idiotic view points on a virus. That nobody could have predicted would happen.

Yes, we have pandemics every hundred years or so and each time, we are unable and unprepared to deal with them. No fucking left or right wing government around the world is able to do so. The numbers from China, are surely nonsense and bullshit

The only countries able to deal with this well are as such a few in number. South Korea, Germany, Israel to name but a few and guess what Quill? Some are socialist and some are capitalist

What does Quill suggest being done here?

Seriously?

When this is going to far worse hit the third world nations than it will hit first world nations. When it will slow in the west as we enter the summer, its going to hit the southern hemisphere. Where there is no doubt poorer nations we suffer horrendous deaths due to this

I say that people like Trump and quill are born off the same level of stupidity,

They both have failed to learn from history, because like others in the past. They fail to unite and seek to blame others, for something that is out of our hands. Which no amount of research can combat.

We are talking about the very evolution of a virus. That when it takes hold, its going to create devastation to humans and by extension over species.

If all people can do is look to point fingers and blame. Then none of you have learnt a fucking thing. There is no cure here. People can be fit and die, its a sad reality. This is where humans need to start understanding the peril they now face. Which will effect people they know. All we can do is attempt to buy time, to find the ability to either combat this or provide a vaccine. The amount of shit I have read about capitalism and socialism on this. Shows people are more interested in political gain than caring for the lives of others. To those who think this

Fuck you, you are comparable to Trump, Putin, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Admin, Lenin, Papa Doc etc. As you do not care about the loss of life, but only seek a view to take control with power

This is where humanity needs to unite and it does not require any leader of any nation to achieve this.

It only needs humans to start thinking about others over themselves

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Post by gelico on Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:04 pm

Original Quill wrote:
gelico wrote:

and only a month later you have in the USA some 85,000 cases and 1,297 deaths and a further 1,384 in a critical condition.  so far only 252 have 'recovered'.

all happened a bit quick

Not really.  We've had intel on the spread of the disease since January 3rd of this year.  However, Fantasy-Donnie refused to believe it, and still he is announcing that it will all be over by Easter.
.



really quill?

seems odd.

Chinese government was warned about this virus from a doctor (who since died). on 18th January and advised the government that they needed to act fast. At that time there was only about 40 cases and 1 person had died. He was silenced by the CCP. They didn't act until 5 days later on 23rd January. even then the virus had spread in that time and even then there were 670 cases and 18 people dead.

How could you have had intel on a virus when it hadn't even started yet

3rd January wouldn't have been possible


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Post by Original Quill on Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:03 pm

Gelico wrote:How could you have had intel on a virus when it hadn't even started yet

3rd January wouldn't have been possible

Nonsense. We have the best intel in the globe, from a variety of sources.

Covid-19 was first recognized as a new strain of SARS back in December, 2019. Chinese sources advised our operatives on January 3rd.

We have xlnt intel, just a bad administration.

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Post by Thorin on Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:07 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Gelico wrote:How could you have had intel on a virus when it hadn't even started yet

3rd January wouldn't have been possible

Nonsense.  We have the best intel in the globe, from a variety of sources.

Covid-19 was first recognized as a new strain of SARS back in December, 2019.  Chinese sources advised our operatives on January 3rd.

We have xlnt intel, just a bad administration.  

Citation please on the intelligence here?

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Post by Thorin on Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:09 pm

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Nonsense.  We have the best intel in the globe, from a variety of sources.

Covid-19 was first recognized as a new strain of SARS back in December, 2019.  Chinese sources advised our operatives on January 3rd.

We have xlnt intel, just a bad administration.  

Citation please on the intelligence here?

Then explain why the US intelligence service did not share this information with its NATO allies?

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Post by Thorin on Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:11 pm

I guess Quill is saying the US intelligence service is far more incompetent that Trump I guess then?

BY saying they withheld information vital to the survival of people

This is why its very easy to prove Quill is clueless

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:19 pm

On 3 January 2020, China's National Health Committee Office published an announcement classifying the novel coronavirus as a highly pathogenic microorganisms (type 2), and request all the samples to be handed to provincial or higher level health authority, other organization or person with the virus sample should either destroy or transfer them and keep the log, and emphasis that all data must be kept secret and prior approval from the authority will be needed before any results can be published.

Pandemic chronology

Semi-log plot of cumulative incidence of confirmed cases and deaths in China and the rest of the world.

Semi-log plot of daily incidence (epidemiology) of cases by region: Hubei Province; mainland China excluding Hubei; the rest of the world (ROW); and the world total.

Semi-log plot of coronavirus daily deaths by region: Hubei Province; mainland China excluding Hubei; the rest of the world (ROW); and the world total.

17 November 2019
A confirmed case of the novel coronavirus emerged on 17 November 2019, according to 13 March 2020 reports of official Chinese government sources,[8] but was not recognized at that time. There may have been earlier patients; the search for them continues.

1 December
The first known patient started experiencing symptoms on 1 December 2019. He had not been to the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market of Wuhan. No epidemiological link could be found between this case and later cases.

8–18 December
Between 8 and 18 December 2019, seven cases later diagnosed as COVID19 were documented; two of them were linked with the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market; five were not.

12 December
Chinese state broadcaster CCTV reported in a broadcast airing on 12 december 2020 that a "new viral outbreak was first detected in the city of Wuhan, China, on 12 December 2019."

18-29 December
Bronchoalveolar lavage fluid (BAL) that will eventually be used for viral genome sequencing is collected from hospital patients between the 18th and 29th of December.

21 December
On 20 January 2020, Chinese epidemiologists with the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CCDC) published an article stating that the first cluster of patients with "pneumonia of an unknown cause" occurred beginning on 21 December 2019.

25 December
According to a post at China Youth Daily, Wuhan Fifth Hospital gastroenterology director Lu Xiaohong reported suspected infection by hospital staff on 25 December.

29 December
According to a CCDC publication on 31 January 2020, the facts leading up to the identification of the 2019-nCoV were as follows, "On 29 December 2019, a hospital in Wuhan admitted four individuals with pneumonia and recognized that all four had worked in the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, which sells live poultry, aquatic products, and several kinds of wild animals to the public. The hospital reported this occurrence to the CCDC, which led Wuhan CCDC staff to initiate a field investigation with a retrospective search for pneumonia patients potentially linked to the market. The investigators found additional patients linked to the market, and on 30 December, health authorities from Hubei Province reported this cluster to CCDC. The following day, CCDC sent experts to Wuhan to support the investigation and control effort. Samples from these patients were obtained for laboratory analyses."

30 December
On 30 December 2019, genetic sequencing report of the pathogen of a patient indicated inaccurately the discovery of Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS coronavirus) in the test result.[18] After receiving the test result, multiple doctors in Wuhan shared the information via internet, including Li Wenliang, an ophthalmologist at Wuhan Central Hospital, who posted a warning to alumni from his medical school class via a WeChat online forum that a cluster of seven patients treating within the ophthalmology department had been unsuccessfully treated for symptoms of viral pneumonia and diagnosed with SARS. Because these patients did not respond to traditional treatments, they were quarantined in an ER department of the Wuhan Central Hospital. In the WeChat post, Li erroneously posted that "X Hospital has many confirmed cases of SARS" and "There had been 7 confirmed cases of SARS".[26] Li posted a snippet of an RNA analysis finding "SARS coronavirus" and extensive bacteria colonies in a patient's airways.[27] Li contracted this coronavirus from a patient he treated, was hospitalized on 12 January 2020 and died on 7 February 2020.

News of an outbreak of "pneumonia of unknown origin" started circulating on social media on the evening of 30 December 2019. The social media reports stated that 27 patients in Wuhan—most of them stall holders at the Huanan Seafood Market—had been treated for the mystery illness.

On the evening of 30 December 2019, an "urgent notice on the treatment of pneumonia of unknown cause" was issued by the Wuhan Municipal Health Committee on its Weibo social media account. It was reported that since the beginning of December, there had been "a successive series of patients with unexplained pneumonia"—27 suspected cases in total, seven of which were in critical condition and 18 were stable, two of which were on the verge of being discharged soon.[32] The Wuhan Municipal Health Committee reported to the WHO that 27 people had been diagnosed with pneumonia of unknown cause.[33] Most were stallholders from the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, seven of whom were in critical condition. The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission also made a public announcement regarding the situation.

Early investigations into the cause of the pneumonia ruled out seasonal flu, SARS, MERS and bird flu.

Hong Kong Secretary for Food and Health Sophia Chan Siu-chee announced after an urgent night-time meeting with officials and experts, "[any suspected cases] including the presentation of fever and acute respiratory illness or pneumonia, and travel history to Wuhan within 14 days before onset of symptoms, we will put the patients in isolation."

31 December
On 31 December 2019, China contacts the WHO and informs them of "cases of pneumonia of unknown etiology (unknown cause) detected in Wuhan"

An "urgent notice on the treatment of pneumonia of unknown cause" was issued to the Wuhan Municipal Health Center.

As a result of the official announcement of the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission, Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan immediately tightened their inbound screening processes.

Qu Shiqian, a vendor at the Huanan Seafood Market, said government officials had disinfected the premises on 31 December 2019 and told stallholders to wear masks. Qu said he had only learnt of the pneumonia outbreak from media reports. "Previously I thought they had flu," he said. "It should be not serious. We are fish traders. How can we get infected?"

"Chinese state television reported that a team of experts from the National Health Commission had arrived in Wuhan on 31 December 2019 to lead the investigation, while the People's Daily said the exact cause remained unclear and it would be premature to speculate."[30][31][41] Chinese state broadcaster CCTV reported that a team of senior health experts had been dispatched to the city of Wuhan and were reported to be "conducting relevant inspection and verification work."

Tao Lina, a public health expert and former official with Shanghai's Centre for disease control and prevention, said, "I think we are [now] quite capable of killing it in the beginning phase, given China's disease control system, emergency handling capacity and clinical medicine support."

1 January 2020
According to information reported by the South China Morning Post on 13 March 2020, Chinese authorities had identified 266 people who had been infected before the beginning of 2020.

According to the Chinese state-sponsored Xinhua News, the Huanan Seafood Market was closed on 1 January 2020 for "regulation."[25] However, in the Consortium's report of 24 January 2020, it was stated that the Huanan Seafood Market had been closed on 1 January 2020 for "cleaning and disinfection. However the virus could only stay on surfaces for so long so this was useless"

2 January
On 2 January, 41 admitted hospital patients in Wuhan, China, were confirmed to have contracted (laboratory-confirmed) the 2019-nCoV (Novel coronavirus); 27 (66%) patients had direct exposure to Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market.[12] All 41 patients were subsequently relocated from the hospital they had originally been diagnosed in to the Jinyintan Hospital in Wuhan, China.

3 January
On 3 January 2020, Chinese scientists at the National Institute of Viral Disease Control and Prevention (IVDC) determined the genetic sequence of the novel β-genus coronaviruses (naming it '2019-nCoV') from specimens collected from patients in Wuhan, China, and three distinct strains were established.

Health authorities in Wuhan reported 44 cases, a big jump from the 27 reported on Tuesday. Eleven of the 44 were seriously ill, the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission said, although there had been no reported deaths to date. The health of the 121 close contacts of the cases was being monitored.

On 3 January 2020, Li Wenliang, a Wuhan ophthalmologist, was summoned to the Wuhan Public Security Bureau where he was told to sign an official confession and admonition letter promising to cease spreading false "rumors" regarding the coronavirus. In the letter, he was accused of "making false comments" that had "severely disturbed the social order". The letter stated, "We solemnly warn you: If you keep being stubborn, with such impertinence, and continue this illegal activity, you will be brought to justice—is that understood?" Li signed the confession writing: "Yes, I understand."

In late January, The Supreme People's Court rebuked police for punishing Li and his fellow doctors.[27] The Wuhan police clarified that Li Wenliang was not arrested or fined, but was warned as he had spread that "There had been 7 confirmed cases of SARS", which was not true.

The HHS Secretary Alex Azar was alerted on January 3 that CDC director Robert Redfield had discussions with Chinese doctors about the virus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic_in_November_2019_%E2%80%93_January_2020

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Thorin on Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:21 pm

I asked for a citation of the US intelligence service knowledge of the deadliness of this

Not wiki

Try again

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:27 pm

Thorin wrote:I asked for a citation of the US intelligence service knowledge of the deadliness of this

Not wiki

Try again

Loser. That's the best chronology in circulation. You can't handle the truth. Wink

_________________
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"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Thorin on Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:38 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:I asked for a citation of the US intelligence service knowledge of the deadliness of this

Not wiki

Try again

Loser.  That's the best chronology in circulation.  You can't handle the truth.  Wink

I asked you for a citation based on your claim of the US intelligence service

Still waiting

Try again

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:57 pm

Take your loses and slink away, champ. You claim that the intelligence people "withheld information vital to the survival of people". You are a liar.

The HHS Secretary Alex Azar was alerted on January 3 that CDC director Robert Redfield had discussions with Chinese doctors about the virus.

Azar is a cabinet-level member of the Trump administration. It is conclusive that the administration was fully informed and kept up to date on the virus. BUT THE BUCK STOPPED THERE. Trump didn't want to believe it, and took no steps to meet the enemy.

Worst war-time president we've ever had. He cuts and runs like a coward.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Thorin on Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:05 pm

Original Quill wrote:Take your loses and slink away, champ.  You claim that the intelligence people "withheld information vital to the survival of people".  You are a liar.  

The HHS Secretary Alex Azar was alerted on January 3 that CDC director Robert Redfield had discussions with Chinese doctors about the virus.

Azar is a cabinet-level member of the Trump administration.  It is conclusive that the administration was fully informed and kept up to date on the virus.  BUT THE BUCK STOPPED THERE.  Trump didn't want to believe it, and took no steps to meet the enemy.

Worst war-time president we've ever had.  He cuts and runs like a coward.

So no citation and yet again we are led to have Quill make us think we are gullible to his ideological far left bullhit

Sorry chum, the fat you deflected shows I am right and you owe gelico an apology for lying

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:46 pm

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Take your loses and slink away, champ.  You claim that the intelligence people "withheld information vital to the survival of people".  You are a liar.  

The HHS Secretary Alex Azar was alerted on January 3 that CDC director Robert Redfield had discussions with Chinese doctors about the virus.

Azar is a cabinet-level member of the Trump administration.  It is conclusive that the administration was fully informed and kept up to date on the virus.  BUT THE BUCK STOPPED THERE.  Trump didn't want to believe it, and took no steps to meet the enemy.

Worst war-time president we've ever had.  He cuts and runs like a coward.

So no citation and yet again we are led to have Quill make us think we are gullible to his ideological far left bullhit

Sorry chum, the fat you deflected shows I am right and you owe gelico an apology for lying

You've got all you need.  Just because you don't like the evidence and high quality of detail is not my problem...you already lost.

I guess you owe me a peck on the cheeks...kiss my ass.  lol!

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Thorin on Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:48 pm

So no evidence from Quill

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:57 am

Thorin wrote:So no evidence from Quill

I've given you all the evidence you need.  You'd realize it if you could process.  I've given you names, dates and events.  These data are even compiled by a reputable, credible source.  See, COVID-19 information and resources.  What more could you possibly want when you have no evidence to the contrary?

You are just being a denialist, naysayer.  You don't like being bested, but the response is not to put forth pure fantasy.  Even a denial requires evidence, and you have offered none.

What have you contributed, besides vacuous word-warbling?  Behind your buffo façade, you are completely empty-handed...as well as empty-headed.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by gelico on Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:30 pm





622,513 cases
28,533 deaths



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Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:54 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:So no evidence from Quill

I've given you all the evidence you need.  You'd realize it if you could process.  I've given you names, dates and events.  These data are even compiled by a reputable, credible source.  See, COVID-19 information and resources.  What more could you possibly want when you have no evidence to the contrary?

You are just being a denialist, naysayer.  You don't like being bested, but the response is not to put forth pure fantasy.  Even a denial requires evidence, and you have offered none.

What have you contributed, besides vacuous word-warbling?  Behind your buffo façade, you are completely empty-handed...as well as empty-headed.


No, you failed to show me the intelligence source that you claimed and you also failed to state why this was then not shared with allies

The fact is quill you are quite the hateful individual, when again what is needed today is for people to put aside differences and yet you continue to be driven by negativity

Grow up

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:58 pm

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I've given you all the evidence you need.  You'd realize it if you could process.  I've given you names, dates and events.  These data are even compiled by a reputable, credible source.  See, COVID-19 information and resources.  What more could you possibly want when you have no evidence to the contrary?

You are just being a denialist, naysayer.  You don't like being bested, but the response is not to put forth pure fantasy.  Even a denial requires evidence, and you have offered none.

What have you contributed, besides vacuous word-warbling?  Behind your buffo façade, you are completely empty-handed...as well as empty-headed.


No, you failed to show me the intelligence source that you claimed and you also failed to state why this was then not shared with allies

It's right there before your eyes, if you chose to read, you ignorant twit:

The HHS Secretary Alex Azar was alerted on January 3 that CDC director Robert Redfield had discussions with Chinese doctors about the virus.

The CDC director gathered and interpreted the evidence, and passed it on to a cabinet-level officer of the administration.  Personally, I think the WH knew beforehand, but at least by January 3rd there is direct evidence that the administration knew. And that's what I said.

Thorin wrote:The fact is quill you are quite the hateful individual, when again what is needed today is for people to put aside differences and yet you continue to be driven by negativity.

The only quality I have is an intolerance for the ignorant fools who presume superiority beyond their limited intellectual capacity.  I guess I don't suffer fools gladly, and can see through those who aren't everything they presume to be.  

That would be you.  You are an ignorant pretender, fanning false and invalid debate everywhere you go.  All you really do is keep on talking nonsense, until everyone tires of you.  I expect you have the self-awareness of an amoeba, because despite everyone seeing through you...you can't see yourself.

When you can't see a full answer right before your eyes, there's only one thing left to do.  You need to be told to STFU!

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Thorin Yesterday at 11:13 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:


No, you failed to show me the intelligence source that you claimed and you also failed to state why this was then not shared with allies

It's right there before your eyes, if you chose to read, you ignorant twit:


Childish abuse and proving me right on your hate 

The CDC director gathered and interpreted the evidence, and passed it on to a cabinet-level officer of the administration.  Personally, I think the WH knew beforehand, but at least by January 3rd there is direct evidence that the administration knew.

Thorin wrote:Interpreted?

That is not intelligence but guessing on some known datat that all nations new

Thank you for proving my point that this had nothing to do with intelligence

YOu lied.

The only quality I have is an intolerance for the ignorant fools

Thorin wrote:And who exactly appointed you to be the witch finder here?

You remind me of the insanity and hate of the inquisition. Where if people do not back or believe your views. You condemn them with hate

I truly pity you

who presume superiority beyond their limited intellectual capacity.  I guess I don't suffer fools gladly, and can see through those who aren't everything they presume to be.  

Thorin wrote:Intellectual capacity? So I guess based on your reasoning just like the Nazis, you do not suffer those mentally impaired. I have to take from the above, that you show zero tolerance to them

When you can't see a full answer right before your eyes, there's only one thing left to do.  You need to be told to STFU!

I only see one thing Quill


You are comparable in hate to Trump


You both adhere to xenophobia, around the beliefs of people. You fail use reason and are driven by a desire of hate.


Granted you set out to do good, but only become what you seek to combat, hate. That you are now driven and have succumbed to this also


You are just one in a long line of history trying to silence and censure people, who you do not like the views of. You have a extreme philosophy, one that if people do not follow your views, then you wish to silence them


You show all the hallmarks of the most extreme and totalitarian hateful beliefs, constantly seen in history. That has seen people constantly suffer over.


You do not offer compassion, hope, freedom, the very basic human right to free speech. You wish to shackle them, and enslave them. You certainly learnt very well the evils of the confederacy. So well, you amalgamated with them.


It shows you are a modern advocate of slavery. You are at odds with everything that is liberal


I truly pity you and yet do not hate you


That is where we differ, because I would not deny you the ability to speak


Again you need to grow up


I need not say anymore, you have just proven, you have failed to learn fro,m history and are making all the very same mistakes from the past and fail to see that


There is nothing now more needed to be said, but yet again pity you and wish you all the best. In the vain hope you will wake up from the nightmare that constantly controls your thinking.


Hate


Take care quill, I wish you all the best and hope truly you will wake up from the nightmare that now controls you


Last edited by Thorin on Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by 'Wolfie Yesterday at 11:20 pm

gelico wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Not really.  We've had intel on the spread of the disease since January 3rd of this year.  However, Fantasy-Donnie refused to believe it, and still he is announcing that it will all be over by Easter.
.



really quill?

seems odd.

Chinese government was warned about this virus from a doctor (who since died). on 18th January and advised the government that they needed to act fast.  At that time there was only about 40 cases and 1 person had died. He was silenced by the CCP.  They didn't act until 5 days later on 23rd January.  even then the virus had spread in that time and even then there were 670 cases and 18 people dead.

How could you have had intel on a virus when it hadn't even started yet

3rd January wouldn't have been possible

Rolling Eyes

Irrational bullshit...

The virus is named "Covid-19"..

The "19" in it's label comes from the year 2019..

That's when researchers first identified the strain.

You and Dodge keep on spouting all of your irrational and irrelevent Facebook-sourced scaremongering and fantasy claims..

I will take more notice of the researchers who actually work with the virus, the health authorities, and the WHO figures, then I do with you two braindead drongoes.

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Our life is frittered away by details. Simplify, simplify.
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Post by Thorin Yesterday at 11:25 pm

'Wolfie wrote:
gelico wrote:


really quill?

seems odd.

Chinese government was warned about this virus from a doctor (who since died). on 18th January and advised the government that they needed to act fast.  At that time there was only about 40 cases and 1 person had died. He was silenced by the CCP.  They didn't act until 5 days later on 23rd January.  even then the virus had spread in that time and even then there were 670 cases and 18 people dead.

How could you have had intel on a virus when it hadn't even started yet

3rd January wouldn't have been possible

Rolling Eyes

Irrational bullshit...

The virus is named "Covid-19"..

The "19" in it's label comes from the year 2019..

That's when researchers first identified the strain.

You and Dodge keep on spouting all of your irrational and irrelevent Facebook-sourced scaremongering and fantasy claims..

I will take more notice of the researchers who actually work with the virus, the health authorities, and the WHO figures, then I do with you two braindead drongoes.


Sorry but what bullshit did either gelico or I spout?

The name is simple a name, is simple constructed to name this, so she never lied

Again like quill, you are driven by some intense irrational anger, based off no actual hate or lies Gelico made

I have not posted any facebook sourced claims on here and yet again we see you lie as quill does

We only see you and quill do this and I bet a million pounds you were the one that gave a red to gelico for wishing Brutus the best

Only you could sink so low and be driven by such pettiness

Now I suggest you put up the posts you claims we made, because the reality is, you simple are inventing and imaging them. To further create discontent and discordhere

You like Quill, fail to adhere to liberal values

You are a slave to hatred

Grow up

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Post by Original Quill Yesterday at 11:35 pm

phil wrote:I have not posted any facebook sourced claims on here and yet again we see you lie as quill does

If you've got problems with the source, treat it like the cross-examination issue it is. It's called impeachment evidence.

So far, you've offered no impeachment evidence...nor any evidence at all. Once again, you are making silly, vacuous arguments that waste our time.

STFU, why don't you? Stop wasting the space on this site.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Thorin Yesterday at 11:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:I have not posted any facebook sourced claims on here and yet again we see you lie as quill does

If you've got problems with the source, treat it like the cross-examination issue it is.  It's called impeachment evidence.

So far, you've offered no impeachment evidence...nor any evidence at all.  Once again, you are making silly, vacuous arguments that waste our time.

STFU, why don't you?  Stop wasting the space on this site.


Problems with the source?

Of course I do, when the Chinese and US governments are at odds with each other

I do not even trust the claims China is making on the number of deaths and yet you take the views of Robert Redfield having discussions with Chinese doctors about the virus? When they are told what to say

I think its very evident that the Chinese officials have been lying on this. 

And yet you take the views of a totalitarian regime over any democracy and again wish to silence me 

What would have been your view if the sources were Russian I wonder?

So I will not bow down or shut up, to such a hateful individual as yourself

You posted no evidence for your claim of intelligence

You lied to gelico. You posted the views one individual had in conversation with doctors. From a regime that is heavily censured. IN what they are allowed to say to people within and outside this state

So I will never shut up, even though you are a modern witch finder

You cannot silence me


Now I think you have proven to the forum, why I am right about you here and again. I only wish, you wake from the nightmare that grips and controls you

Take care quill and goodnight

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Post by Original Quill Yesterday at 12:49 am

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

If you've got problems with the source, treat it like the cross-examination issue it is.  It's called impeachment evidence.

So far, you've offered no impeachment evidence...nor any evidence at all.  Once again, you are making silly, vacuous arguments that waste our time.

STFU, why don't you?  Stop wasting the space on this site.

Problems with the source?

Of course I do, when the Chinese and US governments are at odds with each other

I do not even trust the claims China is making on the number of deaths and yet you take the views of Robert Redfield having discussions with Chinese doctors about the virus? When they are told what to say

I think its very evident that the Chinese officials have been lying on this.

And yet you take the views of a totalitarian regime over any democracy and again wish to silence me

What would have been your view if the sources were Russian I wonder?

So I will not bow down or shut up, to such a hateful individual as yourself

You posted no evidence for your claim of intelligence

You lied to gelico. You posted the views one individual had in conversation with doctors. From a regime that is heavily censured. IN what they are allowed to say to people within and outside this state

So I will never shut up, even though you are a modern witch finder

You cannot silence me

Now I think you have proven to the forum, why I am right about you here and again. I only wish, you wake from the nightmare that grips and controls you

Take care quill and goodnight

If you have got issues with the veracity of the reports, show your evidence.

I never said the US blindly accepted the word of an adversary.  An agent "having discussions with Chinese doctors about the virus," is precisely how one extracts information from an adversary nation.  You talk to those unskilled in tradecraft, trick them into revealing details, and pull together the facts, drawing your own conclusion.  When one has compiled the facts, one reports them to one's superiors.  It appears, obviously, that's what Redfield did.  So, what is your evidence that he did not do that?

phil wrote:You cannot silence me

Didge, you silence yourself by having nothing of substance to say. People roll their eyes and walk away.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by gelico Yesterday at 2:07 am

Original Quill wrote:On 3 January 2020, China's National Health Committee Office published an announcement classifying the novel coronavirus as a highly pathogenic microorganisms (type 2), and request all the samples to be handed to provincial or higher level health authority, other organization or person with the virus sample should either destroy or transfer them and keep the log, and emphasis that all data must be kept secret and prior approval from the authority will be needed before any results can be published.

Pandemic chronology

Semi-log plot of cumulative incidence of confirmed cases and deaths in China and the rest of the world.

Semi-log plot of daily incidence (epidemiology) of cases by region: Hubei Province; mainland China excluding Hubei; the rest of the world (ROW); and the world total.

Semi-log plot of coronavirus daily deaths by region: Hubei Province; mainland China excluding Hubei; the rest of the world (ROW); and the world total.

17 November 2019
A confirmed case of the novel coronavirus emerged on 17 November 2019, according to 13 March 2020 reports of official Chinese government sources,[8] but was not recognized at that time. There may have been earlier patients; the search for them continues.

1 December
The first known patient started experiencing symptoms on 1 December 2019. He had not been to the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market of Wuhan. No epidemiological link could be found between this case and later cases.

8–18 December
Between 8 and 18 December 2019, seven cases later diagnosed as COVID19 were documented; two of them were linked with the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market; five were not.

12 December
Chinese state broadcaster CCTV reported in a broadcast airing on 12 december 2020 that a "new viral outbreak was first detected in the city of Wuhan, China, on 12 December 2019."

18-29 December
Bronchoalveolar lavage fluid (BAL) that will eventually be used for viral genome sequencing is collected from hospital patients between the 18th and 29th of December.

21 December
On 20 January 2020, Chinese epidemiologists with the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CCDC) published an article stating that the first cluster of patients with "pneumonia of an unknown cause" occurred beginning on 21 December 2019.

25 December
According to a post at China Youth Daily, Wuhan Fifth Hospital gastroenterology director Lu Xiaohong reported suspected infection by hospital staff on 25 December.

29 December
According to a CCDC publication on 31 January 2020, the facts leading up to the identification of the 2019-nCoV were as follows, "On 29 December 2019, a hospital in Wuhan admitted four individuals with pneumonia and recognized that all four had worked in the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, which sells live poultry, aquatic products, and several kinds of wild animals to the public. The hospital reported this occurrence to the CCDC, which led Wuhan CCDC staff to initiate a field investigation with a retrospective search for pneumonia patients potentially linked to the market. The investigators found additional patients linked to the market, and on 30 December, health authorities from Hubei Province reported this cluster to CCDC. The following day, CCDC sent experts to Wuhan to support the investigation and control effort. Samples from these patients were obtained for laboratory analyses."

30 December
On 30 December 2019, genetic sequencing report of the pathogen of a patient indicated inaccurately the discovery of Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS coronavirus) in the test result.[18] After receiving the test result, multiple doctors in Wuhan shared the information via internet, including Li Wenliang, an ophthalmologist at Wuhan Central Hospital, who posted a warning to alumni from his medical school class via a WeChat online forum that a cluster of seven patients treating within the ophthalmology department had been unsuccessfully treated for symptoms of viral pneumonia and diagnosed with SARS. Because these patients did not respond to traditional treatments, they were quarantined in an ER department of the Wuhan Central Hospital. In the WeChat post, Li erroneously posted that "X Hospital has many confirmed cases of SARS" and "There had been 7 confirmed cases of SARS".[26] Li posted a snippet of an RNA analysis finding "SARS coronavirus" and extensive bacteria colonies in a patient's airways.[27] Li contracted this coronavirus from a patient he treated, was hospitalized on 12 January 2020 and died on 7 February 2020.

News of an outbreak of "pneumonia of unknown origin" started circulating on social media on the evening of 30 December 2019. The social media reports stated that 27 patients in Wuhan—most of them stall holders at the Huanan Seafood Market—had been treated for the mystery illness.

On the evening of 30 December 2019, an "urgent notice on the treatment of pneumonia of unknown cause" was issued by the Wuhan Municipal Health Committee on its Weibo social media account. It was reported that since the beginning of December, there had been "a successive series of patients with unexplained pneumonia"—27 suspected cases in total, seven of which were in critical condition and 18 were stable, two of which were on the verge of being discharged soon.[32] The Wuhan Municipal Health Committee reported to the WHO that 27 people had been diagnosed with pneumonia of unknown cause.[33] Most were stallholders from the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, seven of whom were in critical condition. The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission also made a public announcement regarding the situation.

Early investigations into the cause of the pneumonia ruled out seasonal flu, SARS, MERS and bird flu.

Hong Kong Secretary for Food and Health Sophia Chan Siu-chee announced after an urgent night-time meeting with officials and experts, "[any suspected cases] including the presentation of fever and acute respiratory illness or pneumonia, and travel history to Wuhan within 14 days before onset of symptoms, we will put the patients in isolation."

31 December
On 31 December 2019, China contacts the WHO and informs them of "cases of pneumonia of unknown etiology (unknown cause) detected in Wuhan"

An "urgent notice on the treatment of pneumonia of unknown cause" was issued to the Wuhan Municipal Health Center.

As a result of the official announcement of the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission, Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan immediately tightened their inbound screening processes.

Qu Shiqian, a vendor at the Huanan Seafood Market, said government officials had disinfected the premises on 31 December 2019 and told stallholders to wear masks. Qu said he had only learnt of the pneumonia outbreak from media reports. "Previously I thought they had flu," he said. "It should be not serious. We are fish traders. How can we get infected?"

"Chinese state television reported that a team of experts from the National Health Commission had arrived in Wuhan on 31 December 2019 to lead the investigation, while the People's Daily said the exact cause remained unclear and it would be premature to speculate."[30][31][41] Chinese state broadcaster CCTV reported that a team of senior health experts had been dispatched to the city of Wuhan and were reported to be "conducting relevant inspection and verification work."

Tao Lina, a public health expert and former official with Shanghai's Centre for disease control and prevention, said, "I think we are [now] quite capable of killing it in the beginning phase, given China's disease control system, emergency handling capacity and clinical medicine support."

1 January 2020
According to information reported by the South China Morning Post on 13 March 2020, Chinese authorities had identified 266 people who had been infected before the beginning of 2020.

According to the Chinese state-sponsored Xinhua News, the Huanan Seafood Market was closed on 1 January 2020 for "regulation."[25] However, in the Consortium's report of 24 January 2020, it was stated that the Huanan Seafood Market had been closed on 1 January 2020 for "cleaning and disinfection. However the virus could only stay on surfaces for so long so this was useless"

2 January
On 2 January, 41 admitted hospital patients in Wuhan, China, were confirmed to have contracted (laboratory-confirmed) the 2019-nCoV (Novel coronavirus); 27 (66%) patients had direct exposure to Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market.[12] All 41 patients were subsequently relocated from the hospital they had originally been diagnosed in to the Jinyintan Hospital in Wuhan, China.

3 January
On 3 January 2020, Chinese scientists at the National Institute of Viral Disease Control and Prevention (IVDC) determined the genetic sequence of the novel β-genus coronaviruses (naming it '2019-nCoV') from specimens collected from patients in Wuhan, China, and three distinct strains were established.

Health authorities in Wuhan reported 44 cases, a big jump from the 27 reported on Tuesday. Eleven of the 44 were seriously ill, the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission said, although there had been no reported deaths to date. The health of the 121 close contacts of the cases was being monitored.

On 3 January 2020, Li Wenliang, a Wuhan ophthalmologist, was summoned to the Wuhan Public Security Bureau where he was told to sign an official confession and admonition letter promising to cease spreading false "rumors" regarding the coronavirus. In the letter, he was accused of "making false comments" that had "severely disturbed the social order". The letter stated, "We solemnly warn you: If you keep being stubborn, with such impertinence, and continue this illegal activity, you will be brought to justice—is that understood?" Li signed the confession writing: "Yes, I understand."

In late January, The Supreme People's Court rebuked police for punishing Li and his fellow doctors.[27] The Wuhan police clarified that Li Wenliang was not arrested or fined, but was warned as he had spread that "There had been 7 confirmed cases of SARS", which was not true.

The HHS Secretary Alex Azar was alerted on January 3 that CDC director Robert Redfield had discussions with Chinese doctors about the virus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic_in_November_2019_%E2%80%93_January_2020


this proves nothing quill

the bib is the same guy i was talking about. he was one of several doctors who spoke out on social media only to have the police take it down and threaten him.

''in the weeks that followed the wuhan Municipal Health Commission maintained that there was no obvious evidence of human to human transmission, no healthcare workers had been affected and that the outbreak was, in their words, preventable and controllable''

on 3rd January no world leader anywhere could have predicted the danger of this. there hadn't been any deaths at that point and wrong info given out about it all being under control.

didge is right about you and your comment about trump being in denial etc proves it

you're so consumed with hatred for him that you have no room for any logical thought process



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Post by Thorin Yesterday at 2:10 am

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Problems with the source?

Of course I do, when the Chinese and US governments are at odds with each other

I do not even trust the claims China is making on the number of deaths and yet you take the views of Robert Redfield having discussions with Chinese doctors about the virus? When they are told what to say

I think its very evident that the Chinese officials have been lying on this.

And yet you take the views of a totalitarian regime over any democracy and again wish to silence me

What would have been your view if the sources were Russian I wonder?

So I will not bow down or shut up, to such a hateful individual as yourself

You posted no evidence for your claim of intelligence

You lied to gelico. You posted the views one individual had in conversation with doctors. From a regime that is heavily censured. IN what they are allowed to say to people within and outside this state

So I will never shut up, even though you are a modern witch finder

You cannot silence me

Now I think you have proven to the forum, why I am right about you here and again. I only wish, you wake from the nightmare that grips and controls you

Take care quill and goodnight

If you have got issues with the veracity of the reports, show your evidence.

I never said the US blindly accepted the word of an adversary.  An agent "having discussions with Chinese doctors about the virus," is precisely how one extracts information from an adversary nation.  You talk to those unskilled in tradecraft, trick them into revealing details, and pull together the facts, drawing your own conclusion.  When one has compiled the facts, one reports them to one's superiors.  It appears, obviously, that's what Redfield did.  So, what is your evidence that he did not do that?

phil wrote:You cannot silence me

Didge, you silence yourself by having nothing of substance to say.  People roll their eyes and walk away.


My evidence?

That they are  nation that is a major abuser of human rights

What agent?

An agent, would provide evidence and intelligence from people not censured by the regime

WE now Know China is lying from many sources

I offered the view to question you claimns

How is questioning not being of substance, unless you bow down and take for granted the views and claims of a totalitarian nation

If that is not of substance, when you are easily led. Then I guess you are the issue here Quill and not me

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Post by Thorin Yesterday at 2:11 am

gelico wrote:
Original Quill wrote:On 3 January 2020, China's National Health Committee Office published an announcement classifying the novel coronavirus as a highly pathogenic microorganisms (type 2), and request all the samples to be handed to provincial or higher level health authority, other organization or person with the virus sample should either destroy or transfer them and keep the log, and emphasis that all data must be kept secret and prior approval from the authority will be needed before any results can be published.

Pandemic chronology

Semi-log plot of cumulative incidence of confirmed cases and deaths in China and the rest of the world.

Semi-log plot of daily incidence (epidemiology) of cases by region: Hubei Province; mainland China excluding Hubei; the rest of the world (ROW); and the world total.

Semi-log plot of coronavirus daily deaths by region: Hubei Province; mainland China excluding Hubei; the rest of the world (ROW); and the world total.

17 November 2019
A confirmed case of the novel coronavirus emerged on 17 November 2019, according to 13 March 2020 reports of official Chinese government sources,[8] but was not recognized at that time. There may have been earlier patients; the search for them continues.

1 December
The first known patient started experiencing symptoms on 1 December 2019. He had not been to the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market of Wuhan. No epidemiological link could be found between this case and later cases.

8–18 December
Between 8 and 18 December 2019, seven cases later diagnosed as COVID19 were documented; two of them were linked with the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market; five were not.

12 December
Chinese state broadcaster CCTV reported in a broadcast airing on 12 december 2020 that a "new viral outbreak was first detected in the city of Wuhan, China, on 12 December 2019."

18-29 December
Bronchoalveolar lavage fluid (BAL) that will eventually be used for viral genome sequencing is collected from hospital patients between the 18th and 29th of December.

21 December
On 20 January 2020, Chinese epidemiologists with the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CCDC) published an article stating that the first cluster of patients with "pneumonia of an unknown cause" occurred beginning on 21 December 2019.

25 December
According to a post at China Youth Daily, Wuhan Fifth Hospital gastroenterology director Lu Xiaohong reported suspected infection by hospital staff on 25 December.

29 December
According to a CCDC publication on 31 January 2020, the facts leading up to the identification of the 2019-nCoV were as follows, "On 29 December 2019, a hospital in Wuhan admitted four individuals with pneumonia and recognized that all four had worked in the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, which sells live poultry, aquatic products, and several kinds of wild animals to the public. The hospital reported this occurrence to the CCDC, which led Wuhan CCDC staff to initiate a field investigation with a retrospective search for pneumonia patients potentially linked to the market. The investigators found additional patients linked to the market, and on 30 December, health authorities from Hubei Province reported this cluster to CCDC. The following day, CCDC sent experts to Wuhan to support the investigation and control effort. Samples from these patients were obtained for laboratory analyses."

30 December
On 30 December 2019, genetic sequencing report of the pathogen of a patient indicated inaccurately the discovery of Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS coronavirus) in the test result.[18] After receiving the test result, multiple doctors in Wuhan shared the information via internet, including Li Wenliang, an ophthalmologist at Wuhan Central Hospital, who posted a warning to alumni from his medical school class via a WeChat online forum that a cluster of seven patients treating within the ophthalmology department had been unsuccessfully treated for symptoms of viral pneumonia and diagnosed with SARS. Because these patients did not respond to traditional treatments, they were quarantined in an ER department of the Wuhan Central Hospital. In the WeChat post, Li erroneously posted that "X Hospital has many confirmed cases of SARS" and "There had been 7 confirmed cases of SARS".[26] Li posted a snippet of an RNA analysis finding "SARS coronavirus" and extensive bacteria colonies in a patient's airways.[27] Li contracted this coronavirus from a patient he treated, was hospitalized on 12 January 2020 and died on 7 February 2020.

News of an outbreak of "pneumonia of unknown origin" started circulating on social media on the evening of 30 December 2019. The social media reports stated that 27 patients in Wuhan—most of them stall holders at the Huanan Seafood Market—had been treated for the mystery illness.

On the evening of 30 December 2019, an "urgent notice on the treatment of pneumonia of unknown cause" was issued by the Wuhan Municipal Health Committee on its Weibo social media account. It was reported that since the beginning of December, there had been "a successive series of patients with unexplained pneumonia"—27 suspected cases in total, seven of which were in critical condition and 18 were stable, two of which were on the verge of being discharged soon.[32] The Wuhan Municipal Health Committee reported to the WHO that 27 people had been diagnosed with pneumonia of unknown cause.[33] Most were stallholders from the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, seven of whom were in critical condition. The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission also made a public announcement regarding the situation.

Early investigations into the cause of the pneumonia ruled out seasonal flu, SARS, MERS and bird flu.

Hong Kong Secretary for Food and Health Sophia Chan Siu-chee announced after an urgent night-time meeting with officials and experts, "[any suspected cases] including the presentation of fever and acute respiratory illness or pneumonia, and travel history to Wuhan within 14 days before onset of symptoms, we will put the patients in isolation."

31 December
On 31 December 2019, China contacts the WHO and informs them of "cases of pneumonia of unknown etiology (unknown cause) detected in Wuhan"

An "urgent notice on the treatment of pneumonia of unknown cause" was issued to the Wuhan Municipal Health Center.

As a result of the official announcement of the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission, Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan immediately tightened their inbound screening processes.

Qu Shiqian, a vendor at the Huanan Seafood Market, said government officials had disinfected the premises on 31 December 2019 and told stallholders to wear masks. Qu said he had only learnt of the pneumonia outbreak from media reports. "Previously I thought they had flu," he said. "It should be not serious. We are fish traders. How can we get infected?"

"Chinese state television reported that a team of experts from the National Health Commission had arrived in Wuhan on 31 December 2019 to lead the investigation, while the People's Daily said the exact cause remained unclear and it would be premature to speculate."[30][31][41] Chinese state broadcaster CCTV reported that a team of senior health experts had been dispatched to the city of Wuhan and were reported to be "conducting relevant inspection and verification work."

Tao Lina, a public health expert and former official with Shanghai's Centre for disease control and prevention, said, "I think we are [now] quite capable of killing it in the beginning phase, given China's disease control system, emergency handling capacity and clinical medicine support."

1 January 2020
According to information reported by the South China Morning Post on 13 March 2020, Chinese authorities had identified 266 people who had been infected before the beginning of 2020.

According to the Chinese state-sponsored Xinhua News, the Huanan Seafood Market was closed on 1 January 2020 for "regulation."[25] However, in the Consortium's report of 24 January 2020, it was stated that the Huanan Seafood Market had been closed on 1 January 2020 for "cleaning and disinfection. However the virus could only stay on surfaces for so long so this was useless"

2 January
On 2 January, 41 admitted hospital patients in Wuhan, China, were confirmed to have contracted (laboratory-confirmed) the 2019-nCoV (Novel coronavirus); 27 (66%) patients had direct exposure to Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market.[12] All 41 patients were subsequently relocated from the hospital they had originally been diagnosed in to the Jinyintan Hospital in Wuhan, China.

3 January
On 3 January 2020, Chinese scientists at the National Institute of Viral Disease Control and Prevention (IVDC) determined the genetic sequence of the novel β-genus coronaviruses (naming it '2019-nCoV') from specimens collected from patients in Wuhan, China, and three distinct strains were established.

Health authorities in Wuhan reported 44 cases, a big jump from the 27 reported on Tuesday. Eleven of the 44 were seriously ill, the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission said, although there had been no reported deaths to date. The health of the 121 close contacts of the cases was being monitored.

On 3 January 2020, Li Wenliang, a Wuhan ophthalmologist, was summoned to the Wuhan Public Security Bureau where he was told to sign an official confession and admonition letter promising to cease spreading false "rumors" regarding the coronavirus. In the letter, he was accused of "making false comments" that had "severely disturbed the social order". The letter stated, "We solemnly warn you: If you keep being stubborn, with such impertinence, and continue this illegal activity, you will be brought to justice—is that understood?" Li signed the confession writing: "Yes, I understand."

In late January, The Supreme People's Court rebuked police for punishing Li and his fellow doctors.[27] The Wuhan police clarified that Li Wenliang was not arrested or fined, but was warned as he had spread that "There had been 7 confirmed cases of SARS", which was not true.

The HHS Secretary Alex Azar was alerted on January 3 that CDC director Robert Redfield had discussions with Chinese doctors about the virus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic_in_November_2019_%E2%80%93_January_2020


this proves nothing quill

the bib is the same guy i was talking about.  he was one of several doctors who spoke out on social media only to have the police take it down and threaten him.

''in the weeks that followed the wuhan Municipal Health Commission maintained that there was no obvious evidence of human to human transmission, no healthcare workers had been affected and that the outbreak was, in their words, preventable and controllable''

on 3rd January no world leader anywhere could have predicted the danger of this.  there hadn't been any deaths at that point and wrong info given out about it all being under control.

didge is right about you and your comment about trump being in denial etc proves it

you're so consumed with hatred for him that you have no room for any logical thought process




+1

Prepare to see the an epic explosion of bullshit from Quill

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Post by Original Quill Yesterday at 2:41 am

Gelico wrote:this proves nothing quill

It substantiates everything I was saying: that the administration had notice of the virus as of January 3rd.  Redfield told Azar, a cabnet secretary, and hence the administration had notice.

I don't see any room for denial of these facts, and, as I was telling didge, no one has put forth any evidence to deny them.  End of...

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

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Post by Thorin Yesterday at 2:43 am

Original Quill wrote:
Gelico wrote:this proves nothing quill

It substantiates everything I was saying: that the administration had notice of the virus as of January 3rd.  Redfield told Azar, a cabnet secretary, and hence the administration had notice.

I don't see any room for denial of these facts, and, as I was telling didge, no one has put forth any evidence to deny them.  End of...


No it does not, its hearsay

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Post by Original Quill Yesterday at 3:04 am

phil wrote:No it does not, its hearsay

According to Federal Rule 801 of the F.R.E., hearsay is what a party offers in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted in the statement. F.R.E. 801 (c).

No one is testifying here. These are facts, already established: Notice was given. You must deny that notice was given, presenting actual facts to the contrary, or your argument is groundless. There is no witness. You have no evidence. And there is no hearing in which to raise an objection.

Nice try. Poor effort.

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"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by gelico Yesterday at 12:12 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Gelico wrote:this proves nothing quill

It substantiates everything I was saying: that the administration had notice of the virus as of January 3rd.  Redfield told Azar, a cabnet secretary, and hence the administration had notice.


so what?

there is a virus, it hasn't killed anyone, it is under control and not able to pass from human to human

that was the info received so what do you expect trump or any other leader to have done with that info?

if he had acted and jumped up and closed the borders at that stage you would have said he was insane and you know it

nothing can substantiate the deep irrational hatred you have for trump



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Post by Ben Reilly Yesterday at 2:04 pm

March 13: Evangelical preacher Landon Spradlin of Virginia makes a Facebook post accusing "the media" of mass hysteria and of trying to use the coronavirus pandemic to attack Trump.

March 27: Landon Spradlin dies of coronavirus.

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Post by Thorin Yesterday at 2:28 pm

gelico wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

It substantiates everything I was saying: that the administration had notice of the virus as of January 3rd.  Redfield told Azar, a cabnet secretary, and hence the administration had notice.


so what?  

there is a virus, it hasn't killed anyone, it is under control and not able to pass from human to human

that was the info received so what do you expect trump or any other leader to have done with that info?

if he had acted and jumped up and closed the borders at that stage you would have said he was insane and you know it

nothing can substantiate the deep irrational hatred you have for trump




+1 gelico

However Trump is an egotistic imbecile, that much is true, but you are right. No leader anywhere in the world can place measures to prevent this. They can only hope to stem this.

Sadly Quill wishes to seek to blame someone for this, when if he had an ounce of decency he would condemn the barbaric practices of live animal markets in china, where this stemmed from. 

Yet he wont, because of some irrational belief. That to do so, would be racist in his mindset

He takes any view on a (made up races) non-white cultural aspect. To then believe that to condemn this, must make people racist

This is why Quill is a complete idiot. It is idiots like him, that will sadly ensure extreme government will take hold from this pandemic

Every nation is playing this out, one day at a time and yet the extreme left in quill, see this as a means to bring down capitalism. That is all they care about. Not human lives, but to bring about a tried and tested failed system, socialism. I am sure the moderate left will howl at me saying this, but again. There is no system in history or around today that is true socialism. They all have forms of capitalism. The forms of socialism in history and today. They have all been at the expense of millions of human lives. This is what the left fail to admit or understand. Yes capitalism has many flaws, but it will be the system that gets us through this

Its why socialism will never work as a economic system. When it fails to understand the evolutionary nature of humans to succeed and have goals

Fuckwits like quill, want to blame someone for this. Quill chooses a political option and not the real cause.

China is not at fault, only poor practices are at fault in their nation. Even then the chances of this being passed from animals to humans was remote. 

Maybe this is natures way of controlling the planet, but it is evolution, in how we are this very crossroads. One where this is just one of many pandemics seen in history and they come on cue, every hundred or so years. As the last one was 1919-1920. The Spanish flu

And the funniest thing is this. Its far more people on the right, religious etc, who are volunteering to help. We can be thankful for one thing here to the blindness of religion. As the reality is I do not see atheists limning up to help. Being as they believe in life as mortal. Its why as an atheist myself, that can be a failing. Yet I have no fear to sign up to help, but I have been told to self isolate. I wont abide with this, because I want to help and do not fear death

The left used to mean something, but since trump got elected, many have become hateful and lost their way. That is quill in a nutshell

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Post by Tommy Monk Yesterday at 3:38 pm

gelico wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

It substantiates everything I was saying: that the administration had notice of the virus as of January 3rd.  Redfield told Azar, a cabnet secretary, and hence the administration had notice.


so what?

there is a virus, it hasn't killed anyone, it is under control and not able to pass from human to human

that was the info received so what do you expect trump or any other leader to have done with that info?

if he had acted and jumped up and closed the borders at that stage you would have said he was insane and you know it

nothing can substantiate the deep irrational hatred you have for trump





100% correct Gelico!



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Post by Maddog Yesterday at 4:24 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:March 13: Evangelical preacher Landon Spradlin of Virginia makes a Facebook post accusing "the media" of mass hysteria and of trying to use the coronavirus pandemic to attack Trump.

March 27: Landon Spradlin dies of coronavirus.

This will be funny in about a year or two. Shocked

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Post by Maddog Yesterday at 4:33 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:March 13: Evangelical preacher Landon Spradlin of Virginia makes a Facebook post accusing "the media" of mass hysteria and of trying to use the coronavirus pandemic to attack Trump.

March 27: Landon Spradlin dies of coronavirus.

After a little research, he did say the risk was real. Where he made a mistake was assuming the media wanted to hurt Trump. The media pedals fear to sell papers and clicks.

And to be fair, a lot of folks played down the threat from this viris because we heard it all before. If you weren't a bit skeptical you haven't been paying attention to governments and the media.

Who's fault is it when people stop believing the government and the media?

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