Boris Johnson

First topic message reminder :

Has the gig, voted in by 0.2% of the population.
Heaven help us from this racist, moronic buffoon.
He now rules over piccannies with watermelon smiles, Muslims dressed as letterboxes looking like bank robbers, and has told too many lies to list.
Being PM is better on his CV than being fired from 2 jobs for lying, or arranging for a journalist to be beaten up.
Luckily , many Tories hate him enough to quit the party and cross the house.
This could be an exciting week in politics .

Can fully agree with your last Paragraph !

OMG general election called for December 12 !!!!!

Jules wrote:OMG general election called for December 12 !!!!!

Inevitable. The government is incapable of and unable to govern; the main Opposition is a complete shambles and hasn't a clue what it's doing and where it wants to go; the LibDems are no longer either liberal or democratic and the Scottish Nationalists want only one thing: Independence.

RIP UK.

I'm going to vote for the Monster Raving Loony Party...and it won't be the first time.

First, give the Scots their freedom. The Auld Alliance connects them to Europe more than to England, or the rest of the UK.

Get that out of the way, and then deal with Brexit. That's my advice.

Original Quill wrote:First, give the Scots their freedom.  The Auld Alliance connects them to Europe more than to England, or the rest of the UK.  

Get that out of the way, and then deal with Brexit.  That's my advice.

If that happened , I would be tempted to move to Scotland, God's own country, apart from the poxy weather

The Scottish people voted to stay in the UK.

The Scottish people then voted in the UK referendum on whether the UK should leave the EU or not... the UK result was the decision to leave...!

Tommy Monk wrote:

The Scottish people voted to stay in the UK.

The Scottish people then voted in the UK referendum on whether the UK should leave the EU or not... the UK result was the decision to leave...!

I know. It was a decision of which Scotland didn't approve. It changes everything...so give them their freedom.

Wish they had their freedom, be cheaper for us, free presciptions ,free Uni fee's etc,and where's their independence that Sturgeon keeps blathering about ? They will still be subservient to the EU !

nicko wrote:Wish they had their freedom, be cheaper for us, free presciptions ,free Uni fee's etc,and where's their independence that Sturgeon keeps blathering about ? They will still be subservient to the EU !

They'll take the North Sea oil with them, they'll be all right.

And you little Englanders will soon have succeeded in making little England true to form - the smallest it'll have been since pre-Edward I

It wont do them any good mate, most of the Oil and Gas is already worked out, what's left is getting too costly to get out. And other fields are to expensive to exploit !

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

The Scottish people voted to stay in the UK.

The Scottish people then voted in the UK referendum on whether the UK should leave the EU or not... the UK result was the decision to leave...!

I know.  It was a decision of which Scotland didn't approve.  It changes everything...so give them their freedom.

I doubt very much the Scots will want to be out of the UK and then straight in to the EU...!

+1

More scottish people voted for brexit than voted for the SNP!!!

+1 [again]

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I know.  It was a decision of which Scotland didn't approve.  It changes everything...so give them their freedom.

I doubt very much the Scots will want to be out of the UK and then straight in to the EU...!

I'm pretty sure Brexit was a deal breaker for the Scots. Scotland was once an independent nation, you know, and while so they had developed come close ties with European nations...France in particular. The Auld Alliance dates back to 1295, and...

Wiki wrote:The alliance dates from the treaty signed by John Balliol and Philip IV of France in 1295 against Edward I of England. The terms of the treaty stipulated that if either country was attacked by England, the other country would invade English territory, as seen in the 1513 Battle of Flodden, where the Scots invaded England in response to the English campaign against France. The alliance played an important role in conflicts between both countries and England, such as the Wars of Scottish Independence, the Hundred Years' War, the War of the League of Cambrai and the Rough Wooing.

It was and is England that is the outlier, not the whole UK, and certainly not Scotland. You have asked Scotland to stick with the UK, and failed to tell them that it means they must break with Europe. That's a bait and switch ploy, changing the stakes after the bets have been made. Now that the stakes have changed, if England were a truly honest nation it would ask Scotland again if they want to be united with England, or go with Europe.

They would stay with England, they said so at their last referendum !

They voted to stay in the UK...


Many of them may also like for the UK to stay in the EU... but that doesn't mean that most want to leave the UK in order to join the EU as a separate Scotland...!

Tommy Monk wrote:

They voted to stay in the UK...


Many of them may also like for the UK to stay in the EU... but that doesn't mean that most want to leave the UK in order to join the EU as a separate Scotland...!

Do you see how weak that argument is?? You keep having to go back to the stage before Scotland knew that the stakes were changed. How would Scotland vote if they knew the stakes were England or Europe?

Eilzel wrote:

nicko wrote:Wish they had their freedom, be cheaper for us, free presciptions ,free Uni fee's etc,and where's their independence that Sturgeon keeps blathering about ? They will still be subservient to the EU !

They'll take the North Sea oil with them, they'll be all right.

And you little Englanders will soon have succeeded in making little England true to form - the smallest it'll have been since pre-Edward I

Hardly, Lez. Today's population of England is reckoned to be about 54 million; in Edward 1st's time it was estimated to be somewhere between 3.5 and 5 million.

Les, the Oil is running out, whats left is increasingly expensive to pump out. They will soon have to shut up shop, then Scotland will have to rely us to keep their heads above Water. If they get Independence do you think the EU will support them ?

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

They voted to stay in the UK...


Many of them may also like for the UK to stay in the EU... but that doesn't mean that most want to leave the UK in order to join the EU as a separate Scotland...!

Do you see how weak that argument is??  You keep having to go back to the stage before Scotland knew that the stakes were changed.  How would Scotland vote if they knew the stakes were England or Europe?

Well... once we leave the EU, and after a few years, Scotland may demand another referendum on being part of the UK...

And if they then decide to leave the UK, which I seriously doubt they would... they may then, after being outside of the UK for an unknown number of years, decide to have a referendum to then join the EU as an independent Scotland so as to then become a completely subservient Scotland of the EU dictatorship!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Do you see how weak that argument is??  You keep having to go back to the stage before Scotland knew that the stakes were changed.  How would Scotland vote if they knew the stakes were England or Europe?

Well... once we leave the EU, and after a few years, Scotland may demand another referendum on being part of the UK...

And if they then decide to leave the UK, which I seriously doubt they would... they may then, after being outside of the UK for an unknown number of years, decide to have a referendum to then join the EU as an independent Scotland so as to then become a completely subservient Scotland of the EU dictatorship!!!

Why wait?  What purpose will waiting serve?  You leavers bitch and moan about how long Brexit is taking, imagine how the Scots feel about not getting the deal they were offered?

Scotland was offered, and thought they were getting England with Europe.  Alas, they were short-changed and got England...no Europe.  That's a bait and switch.  Give them the deal they thought they were getting, or give 'em their money back right now.  

At the time... the UK was part of the eu... but the scottish vote to remain in the UK was for many reasons... not necessarily anything to do with the UK being in the EU...


There was nothing stopping them voting to leave the UK and then having another referendum on joining the EU as a newly independent Scotland back then...


Many Scots may well want the UK to stay in the EU... But it doesn't necessarily follow that the majority now want to leave the UK so as to then join the EU as a new member...

Tommy Monk wrote:At the time... the UK was part of the eu... but the scottish vote to remain in the UK was for many reasons... not necessarily anything to do with the UK being in the EU...

There was nothing stopping them voting to leave the UK and then having another referendum on joining the EU as a newly independent Scotland back then...

Many Scots may well want the UK to stay in the EU... But it doesn't necessarily follow that the majority now want to leave the UK so as to then join the EU as a new member...

By what right do you deem yourself worthy to interpret the Scottish vote?  You are not a Scot.  You don't have any right to speak their mind!

The UK changed the stakes.  All bets on dissolution should now be off.

Neither do you !

nicko wrote:Neither do you !

I'm a lot closer than you.  I am within two degrees of consanguinity of a lawful Scotsman.  Under British law, all I have to do is sign the papers to become, again, a citizen of Scotland and the UK.

What are you nick?  Another Anglish?  Much as I have warm feelings for you guys, you are not Scots.  I am.

I am half Scot. My late ma was born and raised in Fife.

For another Scotsman.

Thanks Quill, but have you ever been to Methil?
What a Godforsaken dump. Give me Edinburgh, Oban or Fort William any day.

Well Quill, my Father was a Scot, and his Father born in Edinburgh was a Soldier in the Black Watch !

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:At the time... the UK was part of the eu... but the scottish vote to remain in the UK was for many reasons... not necessarily anything to do with the UK being in the EU...

There was nothing stopping them voting to leave the UK and then having another referendum on joining the EU as a newly independent Scotland back then...

Many Scots may well want the UK to stay in the EU... But it doesn't necessarily follow that the majority now want to leave the UK so as to then join the EU as a new member...

By what right do you deem yourself worthy to interpret the Scottish vote?  You are not a Scot.  You don't have any right to speak their mind!

The UK changed the stakes.  All bets on dissolution should now be off.

The Scottish people voted to stay in the UK...


Then the UK voted to leave the EU...


Now... once we have left the EU... and after a couple or few years time... the Scottish people might demand another referendum on UK membership...


But for that, we'll have to wait and see...!

Tommy Monk wrote:The Scottish people voted to stay in the UK...

Then the UK voted to leave the EU...

That's all I need from you, tommy...your admission that the UK changed the terms of what staying or leaving means. When Scotland voted to remain in the United Kingdom, it was with reliance on the fact that the UK would remain in the EU.

That all changed when the Brexit referendum arose, and England (primarily) opted to leave the EU. That changed the terms on which Scotland had agreed to remain in the UK.

Based upon the change in terms, Scotland is entitled to a further, or second referendum on independence. I feel that Scotland would never have voted to remain in the UK had it known that the UK was leaving the EU. Scotland has many friends and attachments with the Continent that England does not share, and thus it is a material alteration of the earlier referendum.

A material alteration necessitates a material re-determination of Scottish independence.

Tommy Monk wrote:Now... once we have left the EU... and after a couple or few years time... the Scottish people might demand another referendum on UK membership...

But for that, we'll have to wait and see...!

Why wait? There’s never a wrong time to do the right thing.

Now that the entire independence issue for Scotland has materially changed, it's time to right that wrong.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:The Scottish people voted to stay in the UK...

Then the UK voted to leave the EU...

That's all I need from you, tommy...your admission that the UK changed the terms of what staying or leaving means.  When Scotland voted to remain in the United Kingdom, it was with reliance on the fact that the UK would remain in the EU.

That all changed when the Brexit referendum arose, and England (primarily) opted to leave the EU.  That changed the terms on which Scotland had agreed to remain in the UK.

Based upon the change in terms, Scotland is entitled to a further, or second referendum on independence.  I feel that Scotland would never have voted to remain in the UK had it known that the UK was leaving the EU.  Scotland has many friends and attachments with the Continent that England does not share, and thus it is a material alteration of the earlier referendum.

A material alteration necessitates a material re-determination of Scottish independence.

More people in Scotland voted for brexit than voted for the SNP!!!

So your claim that Scotland only voted to stay in UK because the UK was in the EU is quite wrong...!

Tommy Monk wrote:More people in Scotland voted for brexit than voted for the SNP!!!

So your claim that Scotland only voted to stay in UK because the UK was in the EU is quite wrong...!

More to the point, more people in Scotland voted against Brexit than voted for it.

What are you making irrelevant comparisons for, anyway? Is it because you can't make your case on the relevant comparison? It's very simple: Scots are more European than the English. The Auld Alliance, going back 725 years, is older than any alliance Scotland has had with England (316-years).

Scotland voted in the UK referendum on continuing EU membership or leaving... and the UK result was to leave...!!!