Boris Johnson

gelico wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

How do you convince yourself of your own BS?

The pound will tank on November 1st in the event of No Deal. No one pretends there will be anything but a rough period following such a break. That will put the UK in a very disadvantageous bargaining position. WE will NEED all the trade deals we can get.

The EU, 27 other nations combined, will not need to be generous with their offers anywhere near as much as we will.
PLUS, they've the added need to not want to make leaving the EU look like a good option. Making it easy for us would be noted by every other group that also wants to break away. So they won't make it easy at all.

We will be the junior negotiator in ANY future arrangement with the world's largest trading block.

The 'deal' we can get NOW is infinitely better than any we'll possibly get post-October 31st.

It is borderline stupidity to think otherwise.

Of course we've always got the Commonwealth, right?

I dunno about this, Les.

There are nearly 200 countries in the world to chose from.  Why are we getting hung up over 27 who, if given their own choices, would trade happily with us anyway.

54% of all our imports comes from the EU.  Do you honestly think they are just going to shrug their shoulders and think it's ok to lose all that?

Of course the EU countries need us more than we need them, because we can open out to the rest of the world but they can't because they are still trapped and can't trade (they're not allowed)

This week the UK reached agreements with South Africa, Botswana, Lesotho, Namibia, Eswatini and Mozambique for trade continuity after Brexit, ensuring deals will be signed worth £10 billion to the UK economy.

These new countries mean that Liz Truss’ Department for International Trade has reached agreements in the last few months with 44 countries and the Palestinian Authority. Guido brings you the full, ever growing list along with their population and GDP here…

Antigua and Barbuda 102,012 1.532 billion
Bahamas 395,361 12.16 billion
Barbados 285,719 4.797 billion
Belize 374,681 1.838 billion
Botswana 2.292 million 17.41 billion
Chile 18.95 million 277.1 billion
Colombia 49.07 million 309.2 billion
Costa Rica 4.906 million 57.06 billion
Dominica 73,925 562.5 million
Dominican Republic 10.77 million 75.93 billion
Ecuador 16.62 million 103.1 billion
El Salvador 6.378 million 24.81 billion
Eswatini 1.367 million 4.409 billion
Faroe Islands 49,290 2.477 billion
Fiji 905,502 5.061 billion
Grenada 107,825 1.119 billion
Guatemala 16.91 million 75.62 billion
Guyana 777,859 3.676 billion
Haiti 10.98 million 8.408 billion
Honduras 9.265 million 22.98 billion
Iceland 338,349 23.91 billion
Israel 8.712 million 350.9 billion
Jamaica 2.89 million 14.77 billion
Korea 51.47 million 1.531 trillion
Lesotho 2.233 million 2.639 billion
Lichenstein 37,810 6.289 billion
Madagascar 25.57 million 11.5 billion
Mauritius 1.265 million 13.34 billion
Mozambique 29.67 million 12.33 billion
Namibia 2.534 million 13.24 billion
Nicaragua 6.218 million 13.81 billion
Norway 5.258 million 398.8 billion
Palestinian Authority 4.817 million 15 billion
Panama 4.099 million 61.84 billion
Papua New Guinea 8.251 million 21.09 billion
Peru 32.17 million 211.4 billion
Seychelles 95,843 1.486 billion
South Africa 56.72 million 349.4 billion
St Kitts and Nevis 55,345 945.9 million
St Lucia 178,844 1.712 billion
St Vincent and the Grenadines 109,897 789.6 million
Suriname 563,402 3.324 billion
Switzerland 8.42 million 678.9 billion
Trinidad and Tobago 1.369 million 22.1 billion
Zimbabwe 16.53 million 17.85 billion
Remainers said the UK would never sign these deals by Brexit day…

https://order-order.com/2019/09/11/uk-agrees-post-brexit-trade-deals-six-countries/

Tommy Monk wrote:Quill... stop waffling... we are talking about trade between the UK and EU... and future trade tariff terms after we leave the EU...


WE CAN TRADE WITH THE EU WITHOUT BEING IN THE EU!!!

Eilzel wrote:

gelico wrote:


I dunno about this, Les.

There are nearly 200 countries in the world to chose from.  Why are we getting hung up over 27 who, if given their own choices, would trade happily with us anyway.

54% of all our imports comes from the EU.  Do you honestly think they are just going to shrug their shoulders and think it's ok to lose all that?

Of course the EU countries need us more than we need them, because we can open out to the rest of the world but they can't because they are still trapped and can't trade (they're not allowed)

The problem is starting on the presumption that all EU states are unwilling subjects who would get amazing deals with independence.

This is an honest delusional stance.

Most individual smaller states benefit tremendously, and so do larger ones.

54% of our imports come from the EU, but once again that is from a large number of individual countries. Any loss to, say, Spain, will be relatively negligible compared to those for us losing out free trade with 27 countries.

They won't shrug their shoulders, but they won't be as urgent as we will.

And this opening to the rest of the world is dreamy notion but unrealistic. It is a fact most trade between nations tends to occur with those geographically close. And we are advocating giving all of those the finger...

EU nations of course ALREADY enjoy trade deals with many nations, negotiated THROUGH the EU. And for many those deals are likely more favourable than could be achieved alone.

eddie wrote:What kind of stuff do we, in the UK, desperately need, that we can’t get from the UK itself?

Serious answers only please.

eddie wrote:What kind of stuff do we, in the UK, desperately need, that we can’t get from the UK itself?

Serious answers only please.

Tommy Monk wrote:
The stuff we buy from other countries now, will carry on much the same after we leave the EU...

There is no reason for us to cause any delays to any of this freight coming in to our country after we leave the EU...

Andy wrote:Insulin @ Denmark.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:
The stuff we buy from other countries now, will carry on much the same after we leave the EU...

There is no reason for us to cause any delays to any of this freight coming in to our country after we leave the EU...

Oh really?  The EU is a cartel.  You don't start a cartel without there being some advantage...the advantage that Britain is going to now be without.

eddie wrote:What kind of stuff do we, in the UK, desperately need, that we can’t get from the UK itself?

Serious answers only please.

Ben Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:What kind of stuff do we, in the UK, desperately need, that we can’t get from the UK itself?

Serious answers only please.

From what I've read, the most alarming possibility is a shortage of imported medicine -- stuff the UK doesn't make because it's never had to. And some drugs can't be stockpiled because they have too short of a shelf life to make stockpiling practical.

Supermarkets' offerings could be impacted as well. The UK won't run out of food, but selection won't be as wide, at least not at first and not under a no-deal scenario.

It would also make it harder for UK farmers and ranchers to sell their products to the EU, which could come as a hard hit to smaller operations.

eddie wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

From what I've read, the most alarming possibility is a shortage of imported medicine -- stuff the UK doesn't make because it's never had to. And some drugs can't be stockpiled because they have too short of a shelf life to make stockpiling practical.

Supermarkets' offerings could be impacted as well. The UK won't run out of food, but selection won't be as wide, at least not at first and not under a no-deal scenario.

It would also make it harder for UK farmers and ranchers to sell their products to the EU, which could come as a hard hit to smaller operations.

And it takes an American to answer my question!
Seems to me that if others knew their stuff that question should have been easy to answer.

Perhaps I’ll start a thread and ask the forum. Might get an informed answer or perhaps no one actually knows...?

Tommy Monk wrote:
Pity nobody can answer my question...

Why would we prevent imports of anything at our borders!!!???

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

From what I've read, the most alarming possibility is a shortage of imported medicine -- stuff the UK doesn't make because it's never had to. And some drugs can't be stockpiled because they have too short of a shelf life to make stockpiling practical.

Supermarkets' offerings could be impacted as well. The UK won't run out of food, but selection won't be as wide, at least not at first and not under a no-deal scenario.

It would also make it harder for UK farmers and ranchers to sell their products to the EU, which could come as a hard hit to smaller operations.

And it takes an American to answer my question!
Seems to me that if others knew their stuff that question should have been easy to answer.

Perhaps I’ll start a thread and ask the forum. Might get an informed answer or perhaps no one actually knows...?

Not to be disparaging your husband, but Andy gave you an example first.  After he spoke, whose counting?

Tommy Monk wrote:
Pity nobody can answer my question...



Why would we prevent imports of anything at our borders!!!???

eddie wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Not to be disparaging your husband, but Andy gave you an example first.  After he spoke, whose counting?

Yes he did, and I asked him to expand, Quill, perhaps you missed my reply.
Seems to me though, if Andy had known what he was talking about he wouldn’t have been so vague.

Ben Reilly wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:
Pity nobody can answer my question...



Why would we prevent imports of anything at our borders!!!???

It's not about preventing imports, it's about whether tariffs have to be paid, inspections have to be performed, forms have to be completed, all the red tape that the EU economic policy helped to cut through.

Trade always has to navigate a rocky road when there's a huge regulatory shift. When Obamacare was passed, health insurance companies in the U.S. were given three years to familiarize themselves with the new rules.

No-deal would probably leave a lot of importers and exporters in the dark about what they can and can't do.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:
Pity nobody can answer my question...



Why would we prevent imports of anything at our borders!!!???

It's not about preventing imports, it's about whether tariffs have to be paid, inspections have to be performed, forms have to be completed, all the red tape that the EU economic policy helped to cut through.

Trade always has to navigate a rocky road when there's a huge regulatory shift. When Obamacare was passed, health insurance companies in the U.S. were given three years to familiarize themselves with the new rules.

No-deal would probably leave a lot of importers and exporters in the dark about what they can and can't do.

We can import stuff as quick and easy from the EU after we leave the EU as we can now...


So... why would we decide to delay imports of medicines at our borders...!?


It is simply not true that we would!!!


Just a project fear load of bullshit!!!

phildidge wrote:

gelico wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

How do you convince yourself of your own BS?

The pound will tank on November 1st in the event of No Deal. No one pretends there will be anything but a rough period following such a break. That will put the UK in a very disadvantageous bargaining position. WE will NEED all the trade deals we can get.

The EU, 27 other nations combined, will not need to be generous with their offers anywhere near as much as we will.
PLUS, they've the added need to not want to make leaving the EU look like a good option. Making it easy for us would be noted by every other group that also wants to break away. So they won't make it easy at all.

We will be the junior negotiator in ANY future arrangement with the world's largest trading block.

The 'deal' we can get NOW is infinitely better than any we'll possibly get post-October 31st.

It is borderline stupidity to think otherwise.

Of course we've always got the Commonwealth, right?

I dunno about this, Les.

There are nearly 200 countries in the world to chose from.  Why are we getting hung up over 27 who, if given their own choices, would trade happily with us anyway.

54% of all our imports comes from the EU.  Do you honestly think they are just going to shrug their shoulders and think it's ok to lose all that?

Of course the EU countries need us more than we need them, because we can open out to the rest of the world but they can't because they are still trapped and can't trade (they're not allowed)

This may interest you Gelico

This week the UK reached agreements with South Africa, Botswana, Lesotho, Namibia, Eswatini and Mozambique for trade continuity after Brexit, ensuring deals will be signed worth £10 billion to the UK economy.

These new countries mean that Liz Truss’ Department for International Trade has reached agreements in the last few months with 44 countries and the Palestinian Authority. Guido brings you the full, ever growing list along with their population and GDP here…

Antigua and Barbuda 102,012 1.532 billion
Bahamas 395,361 12.16 billion
Barbados 285,719  4.797 billion
Belize 374,681 1.838 billion
Botswana 2.292 million 17.41 billion
Chile 18.95 million 277.1 billion
Colombia 49.07 million 309.2 billion
Costa Rica 4.906 million 57.06 billion
Dominica 73,925 562.5 million
Dominican Republic 10.77 million 75.93 billion
Ecuador 16.62 million 103.1 billion
El Salvador 6.378 million 24.81 billion
Eswatini 1.367 million 4.409 billion
Faroe Islands 49,290 2.477 billion
Fiji 905,502 5.061 billion
Grenada 107,825 1.119 billion
Guatemala 16.91 million 75.62 billion
Guyana 777,859 3.676 billion
Haiti 10.98 million 8.408 billion
Honduras 9.265 million 22.98 billion
Iceland 338,349 23.91 billion
Israel 8.712 million 350.9 billion
Jamaica 2.89 million 14.77 billion
Korea 51.47 million 1.531 trillion
Lesotho 2.233 million 2.639 billion
Lichenstein 37,810 6.289 billion
Madagascar 25.57 million 11.5 billion
Mauritius 1.265 million 13.34 billion
Mozambique 29.67 million 12.33 billion
Namibia 2.534 million 13.24 billion
Nicaragua 6.218 million 13.81 billion
Norway 5.258 million 398.8 billion
Palestinian Authority 4.817 million 15 billion
Panama 4.099 million 61.84 billion
Papua New Guinea 8.251 million 21.09 billion
Peru 32.17 million 211.4 billion
Seychelles 95,843 1.486 billion
South Africa 56.72 million 349.4 billion
St Kitts and Nevis 55,345 945.9 million
St Lucia 178,844 1.712 billion
St Vincent and the Grenadines 109,897 789.6 million
Suriname 563,402 3.324 billion
Switzerland 8.42 million 678.9 billion
Trinidad and Tobago 1.369 million 22.1 billion
Zimbabwe 16.53 million 17.85 billion
Remainers said the UK would never sign these deals by Brexit day…

https://order-order.com/2019/09/11/uk-agrees-post-brexit-trade-deals-six-countries/

gelico wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

How do you convince yourself of your own BS?

The pound will tank on November 1st in the event of No Deal. No one pretends there will be anything but a rough period following such a break. That will put the UK in a very disadvantageous bargaining position. WE will NEED all the trade deals we can get.

The EU, 27 other nations combined, will not need to be generous with their offers anywhere near as much as we will.
PLUS, they've the added need to not want to make leaving the EU look like a good option. Making it easy for us would be noted by every other group that also wants to break away. So they won't make it easy at all.

We will be the junior negotiator in ANY future arrangement with the world's largest trading block.

The 'deal' we can get NOW is infinitely better than any we'll possibly get post-October 31st.

It is borderline stupidity to think otherwise.

Of course we've always got the Commonwealth, right?

I dunno about this, Les.

There are nearly 200 countries in the world to chose from.  Why are we getting hung up over 27 who, if given their own choices, would trade happily with us anyway.

54% of all our imports comes from the EU.  Do you honestly think they are just going to shrug their shoulders and think it's ok to lose all that?

Of course the EU countries need us more than we need them, because we can open out to the rest of the world but they can't because they are still trapped and can't trade (they're not allowed)

Tommy Monk wrote:You don't have to be in the EU to trade with the EU...

nicko wrote:And those who buy off us pay 20% more ?   It's not all one way Quill !

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:You don't have to be in the EU to trade with the EU...

No, but it's like shopping at Tesco without having the Tesco Club card.  You miss all the discounts and pay 20% more.

nicko wrote:Once again Quill shows his ignorance on how the EU works !

Eilzel wrote:

nicko wrote:And those who buy off us pay 20% more ?   It's not all one way Quill !

We'll pay 20% more when buying from 27 different shops though, they'll only need to pay more at 1

Eilzel wrote:

nicko wrote:And those who buy off us pay 20% more ?   It's not all one way Quill !

We'll pay 20% more when buying from 27 different shops though, they'll only need to pay more at 1

Eilzel wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

We'll pay 20% more when buying from 27 different shops though, they'll only need to pay more at 1

Nicko, any response?

Gelico, this is basically a very brief analogy of my longer reply to you earlier that you never responded too

gelico wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

We'll pay 20% more when buying from 27 different shops though, they'll only need to pay more at 1

Nicko, any response?

Gelico, this is basically a very brief analogy of my longer reply to you earlier that you never responded too

hi, les, sorry i missed your reply, but says who


ironic really, considering when we were first given the option to join it was described as ''only a trading arrangement''
why can't we keep the trading arrangements first set out, if it benefits everyone, why throw it away?

also, what do you think about the EU taking total control over the UK armed forces.  This was considered hysterical lies back in the days prior to the referendum but look at the EU now, they don't even pretend to be democratic anymore

the EU have had their jackboot boys out on the streets of France battering the fuck out of French citizens for nigh on a year now.  they aren't the normal French police.  many people have died because of protesting against Macron and the globalist agenda, and many more injured.

remind me again why remaining is such a good idea?

Eilzel wrote:

gelico wrote:


hi, les, sorry i missed your reply, but says who


ironic really, considering when we were first given the option to join it was described as ''only a trading arrangement''
why can't we keep the trading arrangements first set out, if it benefits everyone, why throw it away?

also, what do you think about the EU taking total control over the UK armed forces.  This was considered hysterical lies back in the days prior to the referendum but look at the EU now, they don't even pretend to be democratic anymore

the EU have had their jackboot boys out on the streets of France battering the fuck out of French citizens for nigh on a year now.  they aren't the normal French police.  many people have died because of protesting against Macron and the globalist agenda, and many more injured.

remind me again why remaining is such a good idea?

There is absolutely no way the UK would ever allow the EU to control the UK armed forces. If we were in the EU we'd have a say over any measure to make that so.

However, what's interesting in your response is not disagreeing with the much harder economic hit the UK would take compared to any other individual EU country. Which leads me to think you actually agree. Is that right?

Remaining is a good idea because the future of this world is domination by larger nations and big economic blocks. Choosing to go it alone will not lead to a stable, and even less truly independent future.
.

gelico wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

gelico wrote:


hi, les, sorry i missed your reply, but says who


ironic really, considering when we were first given the option to join it was described as ''only a trading arrangement''
why can't we keep the trading arrangements first set out, if it benefits everyone, why throw it away?

also, what do you think about the EU taking total control over the UK armed forces.  This was considered hysterical lies back in the days prior to the referendum but look at the EU now, they don't even pretend to be democratic anymore

the EU have had their jackboot boys out on the streets of France battering the fuck out of French citizens for nigh on a year now.  they aren't the normal French police.  many people have died because of protesting against Macron and the globalist agenda, and many more injured.

remind me again why remaining is such a good idea?

There is absolutely no way the UK would ever allow the EU to control the UK armed forces. If we were in the EU we'd have a say over any measure to make that so.

However, what's interesting in your response is not disagreeing with the much harder economic hit the UK would take compared to any other individual EU country. Which leads me to think you actually agree. Is that right?

Remaining is a good idea because the future of this world is domination by larger nations and big economic blocks. Choosing to go it alone will not lead to a stable, and even less truly independent future.
.

they are discussing the EU army openly, les.  what do you mean ''no way the UK would allow it''.  that is laughable.  there is no way the UK could stop it.

and the bib is exactly the one and only reason that my elder brother (ardent remainer) gave me.  as much as i get that, and i agree that there is strength in numbers and unity, but again, we can have that without being bonded like  slaves to them.  the price is just too high les, long term i mean.

and you make no mention of the corruption which has been there since day one.  never passed an audit because of so much spending unaccounted for and you're talking economics.

nor the citizens of France and what's happening under Macron.


also your bit about the economic hit,,,,,there have been just as many business people, and so called experts that have said the hit will be minor if anything and that we will thrive etc.  but assuming for a moment our economy does suffer, would it not be worth a temporary economic hit for long term freedom

Eilzel wrote:

gelico wrote:

they are discussing the EU army openly, les.  what do you mean ''no way the UK would allow it''.  that is laughable.  there is no way the UK could stop it.

and the bib is exactly the one and only reason that my elder brother (ardent remainer) gave me.  as much as i get that, and i agree that there is strength in numbers and unity, but again, we can have that without being bonded like  slaves to them.  the price is just too high les, long term i mean.

and you make no mention of the corruption which has been there since day one.  never passed an audit because of so much spending unaccounted for and you're talking economics.

nor the citizens of France and what's happening under Macron.


also your bit about the economic hit,,,,,there have been just as many business people, and so called experts that have said the hit will be minor if anything and that we will thrive etc.  but assuming for a moment our economy does suffer, would it not be worth a temporary economic hit for long term freedom

Denmark and Malta are not part of the integrating EU military - no reason the UK couldn't opt out too.

Corruption is an issue, I absolutely agree! I've agreed since a referendum was a mere possibility. It is something the EU needs to fix. But it isn't a reason to Leave. Corruption exists in most national govts too.

It won't be a temporary economic hit. Though the initial hit may be substantial. The UK will not recover its standing again. You seem to agree that big blocks is the way its going so you acknowledge a permanent status as a minor player in global economics and therefore a junior partner in any future trade negotiations with the USA, India, Russia, ASEAN etc... Not a great outlook.

And the word 'freedom' used in this context is so flimsy as to be meaningless. The Americans were not free in 1770. The colonies were not free in the early 20th century. Hong Kong is not free today. The UK, with a veto to some EU policy, a seat at the table of EU law makers amd EU parliament, amazing trade deals with many countries, free movement to the continent and an independent military, IS free NOW.

gelico wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

gelico wrote:

they are discussing the EU army openly, les.  what do you mean ''no way the UK would allow it''.  that is laughable.  there is no way the UK could stop it.

and the bib is exactly the one and only reason that my elder brother (ardent remainer) gave me.  as much as i get that, and i agree that there is strength in numbers and unity, but again, we can have that without being bonded like  slaves to them.  the price is just too high les, long term i mean.

and you make no mention of the corruption which has been there since day one.  never passed an audit because of so much spending unaccounted for and you're talking economics.

nor the citizens of France and what's happening under Macron.


also your bit about the economic hit,,,,,there have been just as many business people, and so called experts that have said the hit will be minor if anything and that we will thrive etc.  but assuming for a moment our economy does suffer, would it not be worth a temporary economic hit for long term freedom

Denmark and Malta are not part of the integrating EU military - no reason the UK couldn't opt out too.

Corruption is an issue, I absolutely agree! I've agreed since a referendum was a mere possibility. It is something the EU needs to fix. But it isn't a reason to Leave. Corruption exists in most national govts too.

It won't be a temporary economic hit. Though the initial hit may be substantial. The UK will not recover its standing again. You seem to agree that big blocks is the way its going so you acknowledge a permanent status as a minor player in global economics and therefore a junior partner in any future trade negotiations with the USA, India, Russia, ASEAN etc... Not a great outlook.

And the word 'freedom' used in this context is so flimsy as to be meaningless. The Americans were not free in 1770. The colonies were not free in the early 20th century. Hong Kong is not free today. The UK, with a veto to some EU policy, a seat at the table of EU law makers amd EU parliament, amazing trade deals with many countries, free movement to the continent and an independent military, IS free NOW.

i'm sorry les, it's 2.30 and i'm too whacked for anything to make any sense to me right now

will pick up on it another time though, but for now i have to sleep

catch up soon
x

nicko wrote:70% of our rules are NOT our rules, they are made by the EU !   I prefer ALL our rules to be made by US. I say again Les, you do not live here, any money you earn does not come back to Britain ! So we only have your opinion witch you are entitled to. You have no say in negotiations .