Boris Johnson

by Andy Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:05 pm

First topic message reminder :

Has the gig, voted in by 0.2% of the population.
Heaven help us from this racist, moronic buffoon.
He now rules over piccannies with watermelon smiles, Muslims dressed as letterboxes looking like bank robbers, and has told too many lies to list.
Being PM is better on his CV than being fired from 2 jobs for lying, or arranging for a journalist to be beaten up.
Luckily , many Tories hate him enough to quit the party and cross the house.
This could be an exciting week in politics .

by Tommy Monk Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:59 pm

We voted as a nation... ths UK voted to leave the EU!!!

by Andy Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:04 pm

I think that one day It might dawn
That we all regard Tom with a yawn
He talks of a nation
But sounds more like masturbation
From a movie that's filled up with porn.

by Original Quill Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:04 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:We voted as a nation... ths UK voted to leave the EU!!!

So "democratic will" only goes so far, eh tommy? Real estate and boundaries are more important?

by Fred Moletrousers Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:26 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:We voted as a nation... ths UK voted to leave the EU!!!

So "democratic will" only goes so far, eh tommy? Real estate and boundaries are more important?

My own answer to that question, Quill, would be "perhaps not - but a nation's basic rights of self-determination, self governance and of defence of its borders and national interests certainly are."

by Original Quill Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:16 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

So "democratic will" only goes so far, eh tommy? Real estate and boundaries are more important?

My own answer to that question, Quill, would be "perhaps not - but a nation's basic rights of self-determination, self governance and of defence of its borders and national interests certainly are."

Right now we are arguing about the definition of the "will". Whose will? Anything that calls itself a "united" anything, has to admit that there is some prior state of affairs that was somehow unjoined or pre-joined.

But the bigger question of the discussion tommy and I are having, is the difference between 'will' and 'accomplishment'. Tommy seems to feel that to 'will' something is ipso facto to have it 'accomplished'. He leaves out the concept of 'inertia'.

In the absence of any external force, in any direction, a body in whatever state will remain in that state. It's a very common law that we learn and recognize from birth. To pass a referendum is to say you want something, not that it is done, nor even that you want it done.

note:

To pass a referendum of Brexit is to say you want it, not that it is 'ordered' or 'commanded'. In order to carry out the wish, you need to stick around and make it happen (as Capt. Picard used to say). Unfortunately, Farage didn't stick around, and there is no one to make it happen.

by Tommy Monk Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:26 pm

Stop waffling bollocks quill...

87% of current politicians were elected under their manifesto pledges to respect the result of the referendum and to deliver on leaving the EU.

Vast majority of them also voted to trigger article 50 which was our formal declaration to leave and which is set in law that there would then be a 2 year period in where we could take up to 2 years to negotiate a mutually amicable deal on our future trade tariff terms with the EU... and would leave after 2 years on WTO trade tariff terms if no deal was reached...

It is now 2 and a half years since article 50 was declared.

65% of MPs are sitting in constituencies who voted to leave the EU.

If the current lot of politicians don't deliver on the referendum result and deliver on what is actually written in law that we leave on 31st october... then they will be in serious trouble!!!

by Original Quill Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:56 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Stop waffling bollocks quill...

87% of current politicians were elected under their manifesto pledges to respect the result of the referendum and to deliver on leaving the EU.

Vast majority of them also voted to trigger article 50 which was our formal declaration to leave and which is set in law that there would then be a 2 year period in where we could take up to 2 years to negotiate a mutually amicable deal on our future trade tariff terms with the EU... and would leave after 2 years on WTO trade tariff terms if no deal was reached...

It is now 2 and a half years since article 50 was declared.

65% of MPs are sitting in constituencies who voted to leave the EU.

If the current lot of politicians don't deliver on the referendum result and deliver on what is actually written in law that we leave on 31st october... then they will be in serious trouble!!!

And yet they can't get it done. Boris Johnson - Page 3 2984306523

I swear, Tories couldn't beat their way out of a paper bag.
It's fun sittin' over here watching. Gimme another beer, eh? Boris Johnson - Page 3 2097912929

by nicko Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:08 am

I don't think you realise what's really happening !

by Andy Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:26 am

what is significant is that many of the Conservative MPs that posters like Rambo, Vic and Fred cooed over are now declaring that Boris is starting to act like a tinpot dictator, threatening to break the law.
The hard right conservative Brexiteers should join the Brexit party.
The Tory grandees such as Clarke and Soames, along with the other 20 or so who have quit , regardless of whether you vote Tory or not, represent true conservative values.
Respect to them for putting country before personal gain.
They are concerned that their old party has turned into Brexit/UKIP lite.

http://news.sky.com/story/tory-rebels-the-mps-who-were-sacked-or-resigned-over-no-deal-brexit-11804764o

Boris Johnson branded 'tin pot dictator' over threat to break no-deal law

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-branded-tip-pot-19877994#ICID=Android_TMNewsApp_AppShare

by nicko Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:39 am

True Conservatives ? Kenneth Clark takes £90.000 a year from the EU NOT to grow crops on his Farm because if he sold to us the French Farmers would lose money ! How about a bit of truth from you Andy ?

by Eilzel Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:06 pm

nicko wrote: True Conservatives ? Kenneth Clark takes £90.000 a year from the EU NOT to grow crops on his Farm because if he sold to us the French Farmers would lose money ! How about a bit of truth from you Andy ?

Any proof of this? Or just another Brexiteer lie?

by Andy Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:50 pm

Is all they do , Les. Spin, lie and bulldust. No doubt believing every word written in the Borisgraph, Express, Fail and Scum. Who are reduced to smearing the opposition by way of infantile Photoshop and lies.
When they resort to that, you know they are running scared.

by Tommy Monk Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:18 pm

Quill... it hasn't happened yet because of treacherous remoaner MPs in our parliament have been blocking it... but their days are numbered...

by Tommy Monk Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:20 pm

It is actually Michael heseltine who gets 90000 a year from the EU...

And the evidence has been posted before...

by Andy Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:07 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:It is actually Michael heseltine who gets 90000 a year from the EU...

And the evidence has been posted before...

So Rambo lied about Ken Clarke.

And Heseletine is a Lord, not an MP.

by Original Quill Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:53 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Quill... it hasn't happened yet because of treacherous remoaner MPs in our parliament have been blocking it... but their days are numbered...

Why? What did they do? Because they are on the opposite side, they are just sitting there determined only not to push. That's in keeping with the adversarial democracy you so love.

It's not the remoaners, but the abandoners that are the problem. Farage and his sort left, and did not leave enough muscle in Parliament to get the job done.

by nicko Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:05 pm

Quill, post when you know what your talking about, this is the UK, not the USA !

by Original Quill Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:08 pm

nicko wrote:Quill, post when you know what your talking about, this is the UK, not the USA !

Nicko, I hit the nail on the head, else you wouldn't be squirming. Twisted Evil

by Andy Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:02 pm

by nicko Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:06 pm

by Tommy Monk Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:08 pm

Farage is not in the UK parliament...

The labour party were elected on a manifesto to honour the result of the referendum... and nearly 500 of the 650 MPs voted to trigger article 50...

Since then... the labour party have been doing everything they can to stop the UK leaving the EU...

Even though over 60% of labour MPs are sitting in constituencies that voted to leave the EU!!!

by Andy Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:40 pm

nicko wrote:

Get your carer to wake you up, feed you, and put you to bed. You must be weary at this late hour.

by Tommy Monk Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:59 pm

Andy... nicko mistakenly said it was Ken Clarke... but nicko has previously posted about this, and has previously correctly named Michael Heseltine when he posted about it before...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/958161/lord-heseltine-duke-of-wellington-brexit-blocker-90000-pounds-EU-land-subsidies

by nicko Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:26 pm

Quill, I never squirm, that's for Snowflakes !

by Andy Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:33 pm

Quill made old Rambo squirm
He's now wriggling like a worm
Ramb is digging a hole
Which is not good for the soul
Especially when the ground is so firm.

by Andy Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:48 pm

by nicko Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:14 pm

He also showed that he was prepared to honour the Result of the referendum !

by Andy Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:51 pm

Played 5. Lost 5.

by Tommy Monk Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:58 pm

The treacherous remoaners are wrecking this country and wrecking democracy...!!!

by Andy Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:20 pm

Woe, woe and thrice woe.

by Tommy Monk Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:36 pm

The traitors were elected under their promise to deliver on the referendum result... they voted to trigger article 50... then they did everything they could to stop the UK leaving the EU...!!!

BUT ANDY THINKS THIS IS GOOD!!!

by Tommy Monk Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:48 pm

Eilzel wrote:
nicko wrote: True Conservatives ? Kenneth Clark takes £90.000 a year from the EU NOT to grow crops on his Farm because if he sold to us the French Farmers would lose money ! How about a bit of truth from you Andy ?

Any proof of this? Or just another Brexiteer lie?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Nicko mistakenly said it was Ken Clarke... but nicko has previously posted about this, and has previously correctly named Michael Heseltine when he posted about it before...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/958161/lord-heseltine-duke-of-wellington-brexit-blocker-90000-pounds-EU-land-subsidies

by 'Wolfie Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:31 am

nicko wrote:He also showed that he was prepared to honour the Result of the referendum !

"..the result of the Referendum !"

Less than 38% of the voting aged population voted to leave;
Less than 34% voted to remain;
The remaining 28%+ apparently elected to stay in bed instead of voting..

Not a clear "majority" to be seen in there.
Maybe Britain needs to consider 'compulsory voting' in these kinds of elections ?

by Andy Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:41 am

Played 6. Lost 6.
Going well for Tommy's, Freds, Rambo's and Eddie's blond haired serial liar.

by nicko Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:05 am

Your spamming again

Sleep

by Fred Moletrousers Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:47 am

Andy wrote:Played 6. Lost 6.
Going well for Tommy's, Freds, Rambo's and Eddie's blond haired serial liar.

He's not my "serial liar." I said in a recent post that so far as Johnson's premiership is concerned..."to my mind, the jury's still out."

Perhaps you were too busy trying to pen another of your badly constructed and semi-literate efforts that you failed either to notice or to understand my meaning.

Examples of "serial liars": Anthony Charles Lynton Blair before the 1995 General Election when outlining Labour's principle election pledges and objectives: "Education! Education! Education." (When Blair left office the UK had sunk from near the top of the OECD global listings for academic achievement in key subjects to, er, worse than half way down.)

John McDonnell before the 2017 General Election: "We will end university and college tuition fees and eliminate student debt. This is part of Labour's carefully costed plan."
(Within weeks of Theresa May winning the election a hapless Labour policy wonk was obliged to go on national TV and admit that this was no longer party policy: "Er, we didn't realise that it would cost so much.....")

by Andy Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:02 pm

by Tommy Monk Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:23 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Stop waffling bollocks quill...

87% of current politicians were elected under their manifesto pledges to respect the result of the referendum and to deliver on leaving the EU.

Vast majority of them also voted to trigger article 50 which was our formal declaration to leave and which is set in law that there would then be a 2 year period in where we could take up to 2 years to negotiate a mutually amicable deal on our future trade tariff terms with the EU... and would leave after 2 years on WTO trade tariff terms if no deal was reached...

It is now 2 and a half years since article 50 was declared.

65% of MPs are sitting in constituencies who voted to leave the EU.

If the current lot of politicians don't deliver on the referendum result and deliver on what is actually written in law that we leave on 31st october... then they will be in serious trouble!!!

And yet they can't get it done. I swear, Tories couldn't beat their way out of a paper bag.
It's fun sittin' over here watching. Gimme another beer, eh?

It would have been done ages ago if the MPs had done what they promised they would do... which is what they were elected to do...!!!

But too many of the current lying weasels keep working to block it happening instead of doing it!!!

Although, not for much longer...

by Original Quill Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:44 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

And yet they can't get it done. I swear, Tories couldn't beat their way out of a paper bag.
It's fun sittin' over here watching. Gimme another beer, eh?

It would have been done ages ago if the MPs had done what they promised they would do... which is what they were elected to do...!!!

But too many of the current lying weasels keep working to block it happening instead of doing it!!!

Although, not for much longer...

The reason why the MP's were elected is that more people voted for them, than not. They never promised anything on Brexit...the referendum was a separate matter.

Face it tommy, although the referendum passed by a narrow margin, today very few want to see it implemented. Tory, Lib or Labour...they all are against it.

See? BoJo can't seem to get a consensus on anything. It is what it is. The MP's are not blocking anything...they just are not pushing.

by Andy Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:50 pm

Dull Tom cannot get his brain around a referendum - the result of which is only ADVISORY, not compulsory for the Government to implement.
If it is concluded that hard ( or any) Brexit would be too financially costly or damaging for the country, it is perfectly reasonable and correct to ignore the result.

by Tommy Monk Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:45 pm

The referendum had been promised for many years before 2016... with tory labour and lib dems making promises to give the people a say since 2000...

The referendum was finally allowed in 2016... and the result was clearly to leave...

This was promised again that the result would be implemented... in 2017 there was an election where 87% of MPs were elected with their promise to deliver the result...

Parliament then overwhelmingly voted to trigger article 50...

Article 50 of the law clearly states that this starts a 2 year period in which to have the eu and uk negotiate mutually acceptable future trading tariff terms... or if no mutually acceptable arrangement can be found after 2 years... then we leave on WTO trade tariff terms...

Leave means leave... regardless of trade tariff terms that we end up with...

And we can always carry on negotiating better future tariffs once we are out of the eu...

There is absolutely no legitimate reason for us to still be in the eu... it is purely the result of a few hundred remainers in parliament that we have been denied the democratic will of 17.4 million British voters!!!

And these treacherous weasels currently in parliament will be removed from parliament come the general election... with the british people instead voting for those who will deliver brexit!!!

by 'Wolfie Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:00 am

Somebody remind Tommy that Britain has over 66 million people...

With over 50 million potential voters (if only they could be bothered even registering..).

17.4 million doesn't constitute a genuine "majority" (anywhere except in Tommy's single cell oxygen-deprived anti-"democracy" brain space..).

But simply the winner in a 'three horse race' !

by Original Quill Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:12 am

Tommy Monk wrote:And we can always carry on negotiating better future tariffs once we are out of the eu...

Dream on, tommy. Don't you know anything about leverage.?

by Tommy Monk Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:56 am

Fleakeeper seems to think that remain won with 16 million votes...

But leave lost with 17.4 million votes...

What a strange topsy turvy world he lives in...!

And Quim... the leverage we will have is that the EU will want to have better trade tariff terms even more than we will...

by Eilzel Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:55 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Fleakeeper seems to think that remain won with 16 million votes...

But leave lost with 17.4 million votes...

What a strange topsy turvy world he lives in...!

And Quim... the leverage we will have is that the EU will want to have better trade tariff terms even more than we will...

How do you convince yourself of your own BS?

The pound will tank on November 1st in the event of No Deal. No one pretends there will be anything but a rough period following such a break. That will put the UK in a very disadvantageous bargaining position. WE will NEED all the trade deals we can get.

The EU, 27 other nations combined, will not need to be generous with their offers anywhere near as much as we will.
PLUS, they've the added need to not want to make leaving the EU look like a good option. Making it easy for us would be noted by every other group that also wants to break away. So they won't make it easy at all.

We will be the junior negotiator in ANY future arrangement with the world's largest trading block.

The 'deal' we can get NOW is infinitely better than any we'll possibly get post-October 31st.

It is borderline stupidity to think otherwise.

Of course we've always got the Commonwealth, right? Laughing

by gelico Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:50 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Fleakeeper seems to think that remain won with 16 million votes...

But leave lost with 17.4 million votes...

What a strange topsy turvy world he lives in...!

And Quim... the leverage we will have is that the EU will want to have better trade tariff terms even more than we will...

How do you convince yourself of your own BS?

The pound will tank on November 1st in the event of No Deal. No one pretends there will be anything but a rough period following such a break. That will put the UK in a very disadvantageous bargaining position. WE will NEED all the trade deals we can get.

The EU, 27 other nations combined, will not need to be generous with their offers anywhere near as much as we will.
PLUS, they've the added need to not want to make leaving the EU look like a good option. Making it easy for us would be noted by every other group that also wants to break away. So they won't make it easy at all.

We will be the junior negotiator in ANY future arrangement with the world's largest trading block.

The 'deal' we can get NOW is infinitely better than any we'll possibly get post-October 31st.

It is borderline stupidity to think otherwise.

Of course we've always got the Commonwealth, right?

I dunno about this, Les.

There are nearly 200 countries in the world to chose from. Why are we getting hung up over 27 who, if given their own choices, would trade happily with us anyway.

54% of all our imports comes from the EU. Do you honestly think they are just going to shrug their shoulders and think it's ok to lose all that?

Of course the EU countries need us more than we need them, because we can open out to the rest of the world but they can't because they are still trapped and can't trade (they're not allowed)

by Andy Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:35 pm

So it seems the decision to prorogue
was made by a crook and a rogue
To lie to the queen
Was really obscene
But dishonest Tories are in vogue.

by Eilzel Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:45 pm

gelico wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Fleakeeper seems to think that remain won with 16 million votes...

But leave lost with 17.4 million votes...

What a strange topsy turvy world he lives in...!

And Quim... the leverage we will have is that the EU will want to have better trade tariff terms even more than we will...

How do you convince yourself of your own BS?

The pound will tank on November 1st in the event of No Deal. No one pretends there will be anything but a rough period following such a break. That will put the UK in a very disadvantageous bargaining position. WE will NEED all the trade deals we can get.

The EU, 27 other nations combined, will not need to be generous with their offers anywhere near as much as we will.
PLUS, they've the added need to not want to make leaving the EU look like a good option. Making it easy for us would be noted by every other group that also wants to break away. So they won't make it easy at all.

We will be the junior negotiator in ANY future arrangement with the world's largest trading block.

The 'deal' we can get NOW is infinitely better than any we'll possibly get post-October 31st.

It is borderline stupidity to think otherwise.

Of course we've always got the Commonwealth, right?

I dunno about this, Les.

There are nearly 200 countries in the world to chose from. Why are we getting hung up over 27 who, if given their own choices, would trade happily with us anyway.

54% of all our imports comes from the EU. Do you honestly think they are just going to shrug their shoulders and think it's ok to lose all that?

Of course the EU countries need us more than we need them, because we can open out to the rest of the world but they can't because they are still trapped and can't trade (they're not allowed)

The problem is starting on the presumption that all EU states are unwilling subjects who would get amazing deals with independence.

This is an honest delusional stance.

Most individual smaller states benefit tremendously, and so do larger ones.

54% of our imports come from the EU, but once again that is from a large number of individual countries. Any loss to, say, Spain, will be relatively negligible compared to those for us losing out free trade with 27 countries.

They won't shrug their shoulders, but they won't be as urgent as we will.

And this opening to the rest of the world is dreamy notion but unrealistic. It is a fact most trade between nations tends to occur with those geographically close. And we are advocating giving all of those the finger...

EU nations of course ALREADY enjoy trade deals with many nations, negotiated THROUGH the EU. And for many those deals are likely more favourable than could be achieved alone.

by Original Quill Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:00 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:And Quim... the leverage we will have is that the EU will want to have better trade tariff terms even more than we will...

And you're gonna compete with Germany, Japan and China with that? Come...buy from us. We are the great British Empire!

Not anymore. You're just a couple of islands in the Atlantic...sorta like the Bahamas. I don't mean to be demeaning, but there's nothing that the UK makes that Germany can't.

by Tommy Monk Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:05 pm

Quill... stop waffling... we are talking about trade between the UK and EU... and future trade tariff terms after we leave the EU...

WE CAN TRADE WITH THE EU WITHOUT BEING IN THE EU!!!

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