Judgement day...

First topic message reminder :

Do you believe there will be a judgement day for each and every one of us?...

I mean with all this talk of gays and homophobia God is supposed to love everyone right?...

Amd if he can forgive rapists and murderers for their awful sins,then surely he can 'forgive' a person for being gay surely?

I see a few contradictions in the things folk write.

So are we all going to have our own judgement day and stand in front of God, before he decide ps wether or not we can enter heaven?

I think it's nonsense myself like,  but I do believe in spirits.

PhilDidge wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:

Note no where does it state if a believer.

Booooooom and busted

Which was followed by HF with:

so by denying Jesus is the son of God you take away the only way to the father, so you cannot be saved because your sins cannot be forgiven,

You just showed that the above is incorrect HF, which I had to point you in the right direction

Very amusing, how you can get people to say what they first argued against

 :D

Bye


    

You truly are an idiot it says God is faithful to forgive, it says God will forgive all our sin, so how can a sin be unforgivable... :/pwn://: 

run rabbit run rabbit run, run run... ::rfth:: 

So why is blaspheming a sin?

And why is that sin unforgivable?

That means not all sins are forgiveable?

What if a believer loses faith and blasphemes against the holy spirit and then later regrets and seeks forgiveness?

He is screwed and cannot be forgiven, even though he believes again

Whoops

 :D :D :D :D 

PhilDidge wrote:So why is blaspheming a sin?

And why is that sin unforgivable?

That means not all sins are forgiveable?

What if a believer loses faith and blasphemes against the holy spirit and then later regrets and seeks forgiveness?

He is screwed and cannot be forgiven, even though he believes again

Whoops

 :D :D :D :D 

been there a thousand times today, because it omits the only person who can forgive you from existance..

God can forgive you all your sins but not if you chose not to believe he exists.

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:So why is blaspheming a sin?

And why is that sin unforgivable?

That means not all sins are forgiveable?

What if a believer loses faith and blasphemes against the holy spirit and then later regrets and seeks forgiveness?

He is screwed and cannot be forgiven, even though he believes again

Whoops

 :D :D :D :D 

been there a thousand times today, because it omits the only person who can forgive you from existance..

God can forgive you all your sins but not if you chose not to believe he exists.

PMSL, the fact is it states clearly in the bible this sin is unforgivable, so no amount of gobbledygook will save you here.
Thus if a believer blasphemes against the Holy spirit which can constitute many things by the way dependant on the faith, that sin is thus eternal.
That means either the bible contradicts itself because the sin is not eternal and is thus not the word of God, or the bible is correct and your faith is wrong, that all sins are not forgiven

Take your time on that son

Very Happy

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

been there a thousand times today, because it omits the only person who can forgive you from existance..

God can forgive you all your sins but not if you chose not to believe he exists.

PMSL, the fact is it states clearly in the bible this sin is unforgivable, so no amount of gobbledygook will save you here.
Thus if a believer blasphemes against the Holy spirit which can constitute many things by the way dependant on the faith, that sin is thus eternal.
That means either the bible contradicts itself because the sin is not eternal and is thus not the word of God, or the bible is correct and your faith is wrong, that all sins are not forgiven

Take your time on that son

Very Happy

it is only unforgivable because you are taking the one person out of the option who can forgive it, God, so if God can forgive it, it is forgivable..lol

you really try hard to look stupid and always manage to do it... :/pwn://: 

PhilDidge wrote:Sorry Korben but there is actual archaeological evidence for certain characters and places in the old testament.


Back to HF your faith is in the Bible is real and the fact you place faith in stories, that is the reality of the situation and as seen you have constantly contradicted yourself over the bible, because of your own interpretations on not only what is sin against what is written, but also now even more illogical, being as you think you can speak for this myth you believe in by saying what he does, that has to be the most absurd claim to date. The thing is you walked into that also, as you became unstuck over who is forgiven by this mythical deity.

Sorry, my fault, no archaeological evidence for Genesis up to and including the exodus
Because after 200 years of Christian archaeologists digging up the whole Middle East, they haven't found any proof of the Exodus of the Jews from Egypt, Hebrew Slaves or the Ten Plagues.
Although some of the alleged plagues have been identified as a natural phenomenon and proberly explain why they were folded into the exodus myth
No records of any of it which is odd for a nation of people who wrote EVERYTHING down in stone the Egyptians!(my interest)
This includes David and Solomon, who should be at least mentioned in other nation's history that lived relatively close to those who wrote the Bible in the Babylonian Captivity around 500 BC
But no, not a sausage

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


PMSL, the fact is it states clearly in the bible this sin is unforgivable, so no amount of gobbledygook will save you here.
Thus if a believer blasphemes against the Holy spirit which can constitute many things by the way dependant on the faith, that sin is thus eternal.
That means either the bible contradicts itself because the sin is not eternal and is thus not the word of God, or the bible is correct and your faith is wrong, that all sins are not forgiven

Take your time on that son

Very Happy

it is only unforgivable because you are taking the one person out of the option who can forgive it, God, so if God can forgive it, it is forgivable..lol

you really try hard to look stupid and always manage to do it... :/pwn://: 

 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 


You are just making this up as you go along

The bible is clear, it states this sin is unforgivable, that means, it cannot be forgiven, thus no matter if you then believe in his grace as you claim, as it would provide an exception, it does not or would even state it is unforgivable.

Thus either the Bible is the word of God and you are wrong on sins being forgiven or the bible is not the word of God because you claim all sins are forgiven.

  

You are being weighed measured and left found wanting my boy.

There is no middle ground

 :/pwn://: 

PhilDidge wrote:

Maine coon lover wrote:Yes God forgives gays why wouldn't he , as a believer I do believe that those who don't believer in Jesus will be judged , but its never too late to repent and ask for forgiveness .

So all anyone has to do is wait until their death bed, after living a life of debauchery and repent, whilst many other people who lead a pious life yet do not believe in him are condemned.
It does not get anymore illogical than that

rules are rules

if you don't like the rules feel free to not join the club

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

it is only unforgivable because you are taking the one person out of the option who can forgive it, God, so if God can forgive it, it is forgivable..lol

you really try hard to look stupid and always manage to do it... :/pwn://: 

 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 


You are just making this up as you go along

The bible is clear, it states this sin is unforgivable, that means, it cannot be forgiven, thus no matter if you then believe in his grace as you claim, as it would provide an exception, it does not or would even state it is unforgivable.

Thus either the Bible is the word of God and you are wrong on sins being forgiven or the bible is not the word of God because you claim all sins are forgiven.  

  

You are being weighed measured and left found wanting my boy.

There is no middle ground

 :/pwn://: 

not believing in the person who can forgive you means it cannot be forgiven, If that person can forgive you if you believe in them then it is forgivable, where is the problem in that..

here you go,,,say someones parent dies before a big row with them is put right, all it needed was a sorry and it would have been forgiven, because the parent died the thing remains unforgiven, because you cannot get to the only person who can forgive what you said or did...

Is the wrong you did unforgivable...NO...

can you be forgiven for it ... Yes at one time..

can you be forgiven for it now...No...

that's the best I have to put it in didge terms..

smelly_bandit wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:



So all anyone has to do is wait until their death bed, after living a life of debauchery and repent, whilst many other people who lead a pious life yet do not believe in him are condemned.
It does not get anymore illogical than that

rules are rules

if you don't like the rules feel free to not join the club

Aren't the rules rather ridiculous if the basically say 'live how you want, do what you like, just convert when you're on your way out (dying) and we'll let you in   

Eilzel wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

rules are rules

if you don't like the rules feel free to not join the club

Aren't the rules rather ridiculous if the basically say 'live how you want, do what you like, just convert when you're on your way out (dying) and we'll let you in   

It shows a loving forgiving God but some will still not accept.

heavenly father wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Aren't the rules rather ridiculous if the basically say 'live how you want, do what you like, just convert when you're on your way out (dying) and we'll let you in   

It shows a loving forgiving God but some will still not accept.

Yeah sadly even if the Christian God was loving and forgiving it still doesn't make him likely   

Eilzel wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

It shows a loving forgiving God but some will still not accept.

Yeah sadly even if the Christian God was loving and forgiving it still doesn't make him likely   

personally I think everything around us cries creation, therefore creator.. :D 

Eilzel wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

rules are rules

if you don't like the rules feel free to not join the club

Aren't the rules rather ridiculous if the basically say 'live how you want, do what you like, just convert when you're on your way out (dying) and we'll let you in   

its not about converting its about repenting

Eilzel wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

rules are rules

if you don't like the rules feel free to not join the club

Aren't the rules rather ridiculous if the basically say 'live how you want, do what you like, just convert when you're on your way out (dying) and we'll let you in   

Usually when someone seeks God and really wants to find out if God exists they are doing that because they genuinely want to know , in the case of phildidge he is only debating because its fun. But normally those seeking the truth will either reject completely or accept it , death bed repentance is still an option , but then I feel if someone repents on their deathbed they must have heard and accepted the gospel to be thinking about where they are going to end up when they die . Yes they have waited until they are dying , but they have missed out on a life full of joy and peace knowing that they were going to heaven for eternity .

Maine coon lover wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Aren't the rules rather ridiculous if the basically say 'live how you want, do what you like, just convert when you're on your way out (dying) and we'll let you in   

Usually when someone seeks God and really wants to find out if God exists they are doing that because they genuinely want to know , in the case of phildidge he is only debating because its fun. But normally those seeking the truth will either reject completely or accept it , death bed repentance is still an option , but then I feel if someone repents on their deathbed they must have heard and accepted the gospel to be thinking about where they are going to end up when they die . Yes they have waited until they are dying , but they have missed out on a life full of joy and peace knowing that they were going to heaven for eternity .

...although I'm not a believer in God, this has to be the best, most logical post I've seen in favour of believing in God, truly outstanding...and without the need to make things sound complicated or go Into a huge story.

What a post. :D 

smelly_bandit wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:



So all anyone has to do is wait until their death bed, after living a life of debauchery and repent, whilst many other people who lead a pious life yet do not believe in him are condemned.
It does not get anymore illogical than that

rules are rules

if you don't like the rules feel free to not join the club

Hilarious, so rules are rules, thus Hitler must be in heaven by your logic

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:

 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 


You are just making this up as you go along

The bible is clear, it states this sin is unforgivable, that means, it cannot be forgiven, thus no matter if you then believe in his grace as you claim, as it would provide an exception, it does not or would even state it is unforgivable.

Thus either the Bible is the word of God and you are wrong on sins being forgiven or the bible is not the word of God because you claim all sins are forgiven.  

  

You are being weighed measured and left found wanting my boy.

There is no middle ground

 :/pwn://: 

not believing in the person who can forgive you means it cannot be forgiven, If that person can forgive you if you believe in them then it is forgivable, where is the problem in that..

here you go,,,say someones parent dies before a big row with them is put right, all it needed was a sorry and it would have been forgiven, because the parent died the thing remains unforgiven, because you cannot get to the only person who can forgive what you said or did...

Is the wrong you did unforgivable...NO...

can you be forgiven for it ... Yes at one time..

can you be forgiven for it now...No...

that's the best I have to put it in didge terms..

Incorrect again lets see what again Jesus says, as it is clear as mud:


Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven all their sins and all the blasphemies they utter. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they [the Pharisees] were saying, ‘He has an evil spirit’."

Matthew 12:30-32: "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, people will be forgiven every sin and blasphemy. But the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."



Thus it is clear as day, there are sins that cannot be forgiven, which either means the bible is wrong and your faith is right or you are wrong and the bible is right, there is no middle ground. That is because he thus being Jesus has stated a command, a law, a new one at that, which I tried to help you with earlier, which went over your head
So your perception on sins is misguided by your faith, as clearly otherwise the bible is wrong

PhilDidge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

rules are rules

if you don't like the rules feel free to not join the club

Hilarious, so rules are rules, thus Hitler must be in heaven by your logic

That's a good question Didge, but the message I get is that if one is a believer in God and repents their sins, he will forgive any sin....ANY and unlimited sins??...

Joy Division wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Hilarious, so rules are rules, thus Hitler must be in heaven by your logic

That's a good question Didge, but the message I get is that if one is a believer in God and repents their sins, he will forgive any sin....ANY and unlimited sins??...

you are quite right J D...

the thing he cannot, rather will not understand is blaspheming the Holy spirit is denying God exists, is it still forgivable by accepting God does exist..

heavenly father wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


That's a good question Didge, but the message I get is that if one is a believer in God and repents their sins, he will forgive any sin....ANY and unlimited sins??...

you are quite right J D...

the thing he cannot, rather will not understand is blaspheming the Holy spirit is denying God exists, is it still forgivable by accepting God does exist..

..well although I'm not a believer Favva, I would not be blasphemous....just incase he is up there!..  

Joy Division wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Hilarious, so rules are rules, thus Hitler must be in heaven by your logic

That's a good question Didge, but the message I get is that if one is a believer in God and repents their sins, he will forgive any sin....ANY and unlimited sins??...

Joy, what Born again's believe which is a sect of Christianity is nothing more than a get out of jail card for committing wrongs
The reality is though even Jesus states some sins are not forgiven, it is written there in black and white, he states all sins will be forgiven, but, and that but means there are exceptions to the rules, as there is with many things.
What you also have to ask is why this deity would need to judge people who already believe when they die.
If all you have to do was just believe as they feel in his grace there would be no need to judge anyone, which is not the case either in Christian Dogma or the Bible


So why do you need to be judged if you already have faith, this is another contradiction within the faith.

Basically what this claim is saying that a deity will allow people to commit unspeakable acts and then allow them eternal life for later on just believing in him, even though many other people who have not lived knowing him or choose not to believe him even if they lead exemplary lives are condemned.

Even worse God is meant to be infallible, thus all things he does are premeditated, as he sees according to Christian Dogma all that you will do, thus you are then even condemned before you are even born

PhilDidge wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


That's a good question Didge, but the message I get is that if one is a believer in God and repents their sins, he will forgive any sin....ANY and unlimited sins??...

Joy, what Born again's believe which is a sect of Christianity is nothing more than a get out of jail card for committing wrongs
The reality is though even Jesus states some sins are not forgiven, it is written there in black and white, he states all sins will be forgiven, but, and that but means there are exceptions to the rules, as there is with many things.
What you also have to ask is why this deity would need to judge people who already believe when they die.
If all you have to do was just believe as they feel in his grace there would be no need to judge anyone, which is not the case either in Christian Dogma or the Bible


So why do you need to be judged if you already have faith, this is another contradiction within the faith.

Basically what this claim is saying that a deity will allow people to commit unspeakable acts and then allow them eternal life for later on just believing in him, even though many other people who have not lived knowing him or choose not to believe him even if they lead exemplary lives are condemned.

Even worse God is meant to be infallible, thus all things he does are premeditated, as he sees according to Christian Dogma all that you will do, thus you are then even condemned before you are even born

A sect of Christianity, oh my goodness, that's actually hurt my sides..lol

what musst i do to be saved you must be born again...how biblical can something be...

PhilDidge wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


That's a good question Didge, but the message I get is that if one is a believer in God and repents their sins, he will forgive any sin....ANY and unlimited sins??...

Joy, what Born again's believe which is a sect of Christianity is nothing more than a get out of jail card for committing wrongs
The reality is though even Jesus states some sins are not forgiven, it is written there in black and white, he states all sins will be forgiven, but, and that but means there are exceptions to the rules, as there is with many things.
What you also have to ask is why this deity would need to judge people who already believe when they die.
If all you have to do was just believe as they feel in his grace there would be no need to judge anyone, which is not the case either in Christian Dogma or the Bible


So why do you need to be judged if you already have faith, this is another contradiction within the faith.

Basically what this claim is saying that a deity will allow people to commit unspeakable acts and then allow them eternal life for later on just believing in him, even though many other people who have not lived knowing him or choose not to believe him even if they lead exemplary lives are condemned.

Even worse God is meant to be infallible, thus all things he does are premeditated, as he sees according to Christian Dogma all that you will do, thus you are then even condemned before you are even born

Well tbh, another part which I think is a bit mad is that one can not be blasphemous or talk badly of the Holy Spirit, as that won't be forgiven, but as you mentioned earlier, one can murder another human and be forgiven?   


...I'm clueless with religion anyway Didge!!  

Tbh , Didge does have another point which I wondered of too...

One can be a believer all his or her life but still have to stand before God on judgement day?

Joy Division wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:




Joy, what Born again's believe which is a sect of Christianity is nothing more than a get out of jail card for committing wrongs
The reality is though even Jesus states some sins are not forgiven, it is written there in black and white, he states all sins will be forgiven, but, and that but means there are exceptions to the rules, as there is with many things.
What you also have to ask is why this deity would need to judge people who already believe when they die.
If all you have to do was just believe as they feel in his grace there would be no need to judge anyone, which is not the case either in Christian Dogma or the Bible


So why do you need to be judged if you already have faith, this is another contradiction within the faith.

Basically what this claim is saying that a deity will allow people to commit unspeakable acts and then allow them eternal life for later on just believing in him, even though many other people who have not lived knowing him or choose not to believe him even if they lead exemplary lives are condemned.

Even worse God is meant to be infallible, thus all things he does are premeditated, as he sees according to Christian Dogma all that you will do, thus you are then even condemned before you are even born

Well tbh, another part which I think is a bit mad is that one can not be blasphemous or talk badly of the Holy Spirit, as that won't be forgiven, but as you mentioned earlier, one can murder another human and be forgiven?   


...I'm clueless with religion anyway Didge!!  

No worries Joy, you at least have the right to hear both sides.

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:




Joy, what Born again's believe which is a sect of Christianity is nothing more than a get out of jail card for committing wrongs
The reality is though even Jesus states some sins are not forgiven, it is written there in black and white, he states all sins will be forgiven, but, and that but means there are exceptions to the rules, as there is with many things.
What you also have to ask is why this deity would need to judge people who already believe when they die.
If all you have to do was just believe as they feel in his grace there would be no need to judge anyone, which is not the case either in Christian Dogma or the Bible


So why do you need to be judged if you already have faith, this is another contradiction within the faith.

Basically what this claim is saying that a deity will allow people to commit unspeakable acts and then allow them eternal life for later on just believing in him, even though many other people who have not lived knowing him or choose not to believe him even if they lead exemplary lives are condemned.

Even worse God is meant to be infallible, thus all things he does are premeditated, as he sees according to Christian Dogma all that you will do, thus you are then even condemned before you are even born

A sect of Christianity, oh my goodness, that's actually hurt my sides..lol

what musst i do to be saved you must be born again...how biblical can something be...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations


Thanks to Stardesk that, 41,000 of them

PhilDidge wrote:

Joy Division wrote:




Well tbh, another part which I think is a bit mad is that one can not be blasphemous or talk badly of the Holy Spirit, as that won't be forgiven, but as you mentioned earlier, one can murder another human and be forgiven?   


...I'm clueless with religion anyway Didge!!  

No worries Joy, you at least have the right to hear both sides.

That's it Didge, although I'm not religious and as long as things as kept short and sweet, I'm actually fairly interested in hearing both sides on this!!!

Joy Division wrote:Tbh , Didge does have another point which I wondered of too...

One can be a believer all his or her life but still have to stand before God on judgement day?

Exactly, so one is a believer and has murdered, another has save countless people, given to the poor, helped and countless people yet does not believe or has even heard of Jesus.

The first one according to their faith gets into heaven and the other is condemned

Joy Division wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


No worries Joy, you at least have the right to hear both sides.

That's it Didge, although I'm not religious and as long as things as kept short and sweet, I'm actually fairly interested in hearing both sides on this!!!

Personally Joy I have no issue with many of the teachings of Jesus himself, they are very inspirational, but what I do have issue with is what came after, religious dogma and the views of the other followers, like Paul and Peter, both very anti women. It is the Pauline teaching that makes up the New Testament today, with thus Paul being an important figure as much as Jesus himself. I have no real issue with anyone of faith, though being as I was brought up on the faith I am critical of the religious dogma that is taught.

PhilDidge wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


That's it Didge, although I'm not religious and as long as things as kept short and sweet, I'm actually fairly interested in hearing both sides on this!!!

Personally Joy I have no issue with many of the teachings of Jesus himself, they are very inspirational, but what I do have issue with is what came after, religious dogma and the views of the other followers, like Paul and Peter, both very anti women. It is the Pauline teaching that makes up the New Testament today, with thus Paul being an important figure as much as Jesus himself. I have no real issue with anyone of faith, though being as I was brought up on the faith I am critical of the religious dogma that is taught.

..so your more Old Testament style then Favva?

In short   

What is the difference between traditional worshippers of God and Jehova's witnesses Favva?

Sorry Didge, got you mixed up with Favva there!!

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

tell me you really aren't this dumb, what did the Romans find him guilty of...you cannot defend your position logical as it makes no sense, the Romans were clearly manipulated to do the job by the jews, can't yo see that..lol

what eternal sins cannot be forgiven..

The Romans executed him, as a criminal, claiming to be king of the Jews, when to the Romans they had no king but Caesar

they were manipulated now by the Jews

 ://?roflmao?/: 

More like the Jews were used as scapegoats in the story to ease winning over Roman converts, which is agreed by many scholars, again the Jews did not need permission to execute someone for blasphemy, something which you cannot expalin

Many Jews turned on Jesus because they thought he had come to save them from the Romans. When they realised that he hadn't, they got angry. All the Romans were bothered about was keeping the peace, and discouraging rebellions amongst the jews.

Maine coon lover wrote:

feelthelove wrote:

That's not fair Maine, essentially you can be a serial killer and your God will offer forgiveness???? 

well I have posted this reply twice on two different threads .
I think you would want God to be fair and just .. right ? well he is , he doesn't see any sin any different from another and he wants everyone to come to repentance because he loves us all. If someone you knew was murderer and genuinely wanted to repent and felt so guilty for they had done and yet that sin couldn't be forgiven , but the guy next door who was a liar a thief an adulterer asked for forgiveness and was accepted , why would that be fair ? The level of guilt and shame is the same for any sin so all sins are forgiven .
If you were a murderer and genuinely asked God for forgiveness you would want him to accept it wouldn't you ?

Sorry Maine, I don't believe in God but I respect others right to do so.  As a child I was taken in but as adult I've changed my opinion.  As a child religion appeared to be about being good, kind to others, having deep morals, love, respect, treating people how you wanted to be treated   

As an adult it's seems to be about war, an excuse for terrorism, used by the most evil to obtain forgiveness, a method of control, abuse  

feelthelove wrote:

Maine coon lover wrote:

well I have posted this reply twice on two different threads .
I think you would want God to be fair and just .. right ? well he is , he doesn't see any sin any different from another and he wants everyone to come to repentance because he loves us all. If someone you knew was murderer and genuinely wanted to repent and felt so guilty for they had done and yet that sin couldn't be forgiven , but the guy next door who was a liar a thief an adulterer asked for forgiveness and was accepted , why would that be fair ? The level of guilt and shame is the same for any sin so all sins are forgiven .
If you were a murderer and genuinely asked God for forgiveness you would want him to accept it wouldn't you ?

Sorry Maine, I don't believe in God but I respect others right to do so.  As a child I was taken in but as adult I've changed my opinion.  As a child religion appeared to be about being good, kind to others, having deep morals, love, respect, treating people how you wanted to be treated   

As an adult it's seems to be about war, an excuse for terrorism, used by the most evil to obtain forgiveness, a method of control, abuse  

..I must admit I agree with you FTL, while some do practice religion peacefully, many others do not and like you say use it for violence , control , killing etc...

Funny thing is a while back on ADO, made a thread titled....' Who was around first, God or Allah?'....and not one of our religious experts were able to give a definite , clear answer!!  ::smthg:: 

feelthelove wrote:

Maine coon lover wrote:

well I have posted this reply twice on two different threads .
I think you would want God to be fair and just .. right ? well he is , he doesn't see any sin any different from another and he wants everyone to come to repentance because he loves us all. If someone you knew was murderer and genuinely wanted to repent and felt so guilty for they had done and yet that sin couldn't be forgiven , but the guy next door who was a liar a thief an adulterer asked for forgiveness and was accepted , why would that be fair ? The level of guilt and shame is the same for any sin so all sins are forgiven .
If you were a murderer and genuinely asked God for forgiveness you would want him to accept it wouldn't you ?

Sorry Maine, I don't believe in God but I respect others right to do so.  As a child I was taken in but as adult I've changed my opinion.  As a child religion appeared to be about being good, kind to others, having deep morals, love, respect, treating people how you wanted to be treated   

As an adult it's seems to be about war, an excuse for terrorism, used by the most evil to obtain forgiveness, a method of control, abuse  

Yes, it does seem to be associated with bad things these day. It used to be such a nice, innocent thing. I'm sure we never used to hear any of this negative stuff - not in the UK anyway.

Just wondered if anyone believes if the Virgin Mary did have the immaculate conception?  

Raggamuffin wrote:

feelthelove wrote:

Sorry Maine, I don't believe in God but I respect others right to do so.  As a child I was taken in but as adult I've changed my opinion.  As a child religion appeared to be about being good, kind to others, having deep morals, love, respect, treating people how you wanted to be treated   

As an adult it's seems to be about war, an excuse for terrorism, used by the most evil to obtain forgiveness, a method of control, abuse  

Yes, it does seem to be associated with bad things these day. It used to be such a nice, innocent thing. I'm sure we never used to hear any of this negative stuff - not in the UK anyway.

@ragga
you got to be joking       
UK Christians Spread it at the Point of Gun!!!!
Christians caused nothing but suffering to most of the Pacific People, and deaths to so many of the Americans.
Christians have Never Been Good, Kind or treated others with love and respect.
They have always used it as an excuse to Kill, Torture, Invade and Terrorise other peoples.

veya_victaous wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, it does seem to be associated with bad things these day. It used to be such a nice, innocent thing. I'm sure we never used to hear any of this negative stuff - not in the UK anyway.

@ragga
you got to be joking       
UK Christians Spread it at the Point of Gun!!!!
Christians caused nothing but suffering to most of the Pacific People, and deaths to so many of the Americans.
Christians have Never Been Good, Kind or treated others with love and respect.
They have always used it as an excuse to Kill, Torture, Invade and Terrorise other peoples.

In the UK? When did all that happen?

I know our ancestors were total bastards to black African and other slaves.

Joy Division wrote:

feelthelove wrote:

Sorry Maine, I don't believe in God but I respect others right to do so.  As a child I was taken in but as adult I've changed my opinion.  As a child religion appeared to be about being good, kind to others, having deep morals, love, respect, treating people how you wanted to be treated   

As an adult it's seems to be about war, an excuse for terrorism, used by the most evil to obtain forgiveness, a method of control, abuse  

..I must admit I agree with you FTL, while some do practice religion peacefully, many others do not and like you say use it for violence , control , killing etc...

Funny thing is a while back on ADO, made a thread titled....' Who was around first, God or Allah?'....and not one of our religious experts were able to give a definite , clear answer!!  ::smthg:: 

God . allah is a false god

Joy Division wrote:I know our ancestors were total bastards to black African and other slaves.

I was talking about in my living memory. I'm not that old you know!

Raggamuffin wrote:

Joy Division wrote:I know our ancestors were total bastards to black African and other slaves.

I was talking about in my living memory. I'm not that old you know!

I know that ffs!

But Veya may actually be right , I'm sure I've heard is Brits were ruthless to many people years back.

When I used to go to church, or go to a social function to do with the church, it didn't occur to me that there were people looking at me with narrowed eyes, wanting to tell me how evil religion was!

Raggamuffin wrote:When I used to go to church, or go to a social function to do with the church, it didn't occur to me that there were people looking at me with narrowed eyes, wanting to tell me how evil religion was!

Religion is the excuse sadly for so much trouble though, killing , manipulating, oppression etc...not good

@ragga
the effect of What Christians from the UK did is Still being felt, You cant fuck up dozens of Cultures and Literally Kill their religious leaders and wise men, And brush your hands of the suffering your religion promoted.

Christians used to Steal the Native Kids to Raise them as Christains because they were so intent on Destroying the Native cultures. they used to think they were Right and Doing the work of God to steal babies from the Mothers.

Towards Non-Christian peoples, the Christians have never been anything but Evil, interaction with them always brought suffering.

Raggamuffin wrote:When I used to go to church, or go to a social function to do with the church, it didn't occur to me that there were people looking at me with narrowed eyes, wanting to tell me how evil religion was!

well you were ignorant

YES there are a lot of People in this world who See Christians as nothing but Terrorists.
you even worship one, and Dispite the Lip service Christains Give, the Reality is the Actions of the followers of Christ cannot be described as anything but Violent, selfish and downright Evil.

Did you think the world Only thinks Muslims are terrorists. Anyone Standing Back says the both of you are JUST as bad as each other.

Raggamuffin, perhaps in history people never heard of the evil of religion due to firstly ignarance and then the heresy was often a criminal act.

Going way back Christians murdered pagans and forced them to convert in Saxon England; Mary I burned Protestants over their beliefs; the Spanish Inquisition and Conquistadors murdered many around the world in the name of the Christian God.

Ignorance is the only way you can not know about the evils committed by Christianity.

@Eilzel
they were still setting up institutions to force it on Native people of the Pacific in the late 1800's. Some of those institution weren't closed down until the 1960's.

While less brutal than the Catholics, the Church of England has still committed it fair share of Genocide and Cultural Destruction.

No doubt Veya, in fact often such missionaied pioneered colonial endevours. That people choose to ignore such facts shows how little they care about others suffering as long as they get their Sunday social club and metaphorical blanket

Joy Division wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:When I used to go to church, or go to a social function to do with the church, it didn't occur to me that there were people looking at me with narrowed eyes, wanting to tell me how evil religion was!

Religion is the excuse sadly for so much trouble though, killing , manipulating, oppression etc...not good

the point is, they do use religion as an excuse, it is not the religion at fault it is the people who over the years have misused religion for their own benefits, "god wills it" caused more war and bloodshed than anything, yet God never did will it, for those people to do..

The fact we now kill over, regimes, oil, land shows regardless of whether religion existed or not men would find a reason to war..