Austrian police force women to uncover their faces as country's 'burka ban' comes into force

First topic message reminder :

A Muslim woman was forced to remove her veil today as the ban on full-face veils came into force in Austria.
Items concealing the face in public places, such as the full Islamic veil, medical masks and scarves to cover faces have been outlawed.
Only under certain conditions, such as 'at cultural events', will people be able to wear them in public.
The laws are aimed at 'ensuring the cohesion of society in an open society' and anyone violating the rules could be hit with a €150 fine.

On Sunday, a Muslim woman defying the rule was spotted being told to remove her veil in the town of Zell am See.
In a ruling announcing the ban, officials in Vienna said: 'Acceptance and respect of Austrian values are basic conditions for successful cohabitation between the majority Austrian population and people from third countries living in Austria.'
The measures, similar to those in other European Union countries, also apply to visitors even though large numbers of Arab tourists holiday in the Alpine country.

How the burqa ban has divided opinion across Europe

There is no law restricting the wearing of garments for religious reasons.
However in March 2007 the education ministry published directives allowing directors of public establishments and denominational schools to ban the niqab veil.

Judges have on occasion refused to hear veiled women because they could not verify their identity.
The legislation, which has passed the lower house and now has to be approved by the Senate, bans the wearing of burkas, helmets and face masks on public transport as well as education, healthcare and government buildings.
The bill was proposed by Interior Minister Ronald Plasterk last year, as he believed clothing that covered the face hindered communication in public services and could pose a security threat. Violations could result in a fine of up to 410 euros.

Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere has proposed a partial burka ban. De Maiziere, one of Merkel's closest allies, said the ban would cover 'places where it is necessary for our society's coexistence' including government offices, schools and universities, courtrooms as well as demonstrations.

The first European country to ban the full-veil in public spaces with a law 'banning the hiding of the face in public spaces', with a law that took effect in April 2011.

The European Court of Human Rights upheld the burka ban in 2014, rejecting arguments that outlawing full-face veils breached religious freedom. The law has resulted in around 1,500 arrests in the past five years, and violations can result in fines of up to 150 euros.

Earlier this year, several French towns sought to ban burkinis, the full-body Islamic swimsuit. The move was successfully challenged in all but one case on the island of Corsica.
The wearing of the full veil is governed by a June 1, 2011 law. It prohibits 'appearing in places accessible to the public with a face masked or hidden, in whole or in part, in such a way as to be unidentifiable'. Exceptions exist, in particular where the workplace requires the face to be hidden, or for the carnival season. Violations can result in fines and/or up to seven days in jail.

In September, Bulgarian lawmakers approved a law that bans wearing in public clothing that partially or completely covers the face, with exceptions for health or professional reasons. Initial violations result in a fine of roughly 100 euros, while subsequent violations are fined the equivalent of 750 euros.

There is currently a debate over a 1975 law aimed at protecting public order that makes it illegal to cover one's face in public places and the provision applies to the veil, as well as motorcycle helmets and other masks.
The anti-immigrant Northern League presented in October a draft law in the Lombardy region around Milan that would ban the burka, niqab and burkini.

A region in the Italian Riviera is to ban women from wearing the Islamic niqab in hospitals and public offices.
Officials in the northern region of Liguria announced plans to enforce the ban in what is described as an attempt to defend women's freedom.

Switzerland's lower house narrowly approved in September a draft bill on a nationwide burka ban, but the measure remains far from becoming law. In the southern Tessin region however, the burka has been forbidden since July 1 and violators face a minimum fine of 100 Swiss francs.

Education Minister Torbjorn Roe Isaksen said in October that the government was seeking regulations prohibiting the full-face veil in schools and universities. Scandinavian neighbours such as Denmark and Sweden have allowed schools, administrations and companies to decide the issue for themselves, while there is no ban in Finland.
Three other countries that have not banned the burka are among those closest to the Middle East or North Africa - Greece, Portugal and Spain.

Morocco has banned the production and sale of burqa full-face Muslim veils for security reasons.
While there was no official announcement by authorities in the North African nation, the reports said the interior ministry order would take effect this week.

The ban has been imposed due to reports felons have been using the garment to help carry out their crimes.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4938126/Muslim-woman-forced-remove-veil-Austria.html

Syl wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

We'll Syl this is a real catch 22 isn't it??

Do we allow some women to choose to wear the bhurka knowing full well that other women will be forced to wear it??

Which you're against

Or do we side with the women who are forced to wear it and prevent those who choose to wear it from doing so??

Which you're against

Choices choice eh??

How does your morality stand up to this little doozy??

Who is more important to you??

Those who choose to wear the bhurka or those who are forced to wear it??

If she is wearing it under her husbands instruction she would probably be more confined to the house than she is now if it was banned.
If a woman is so dominated by her husband the problem goes far deeper than an item of clothing she's forced to wear.

So banning an item of clothing that some women choose to wear for their own reasons isn't the answer imo.

By banning a thing like this, by making a stand against what it fundamentally represents, is wrong? Don't you see that by doing so it perpetuates the subjugation of women? I don't think the burqa has any place in our society. If people feel strongly that they wish to wear it, then go live in a Muslim country that allows it. If you visit some Middle Eastern countries you better cover up that hair or face or else. Do you think that's ok? Believe me, you would have no choice.

Horatio

Yes I agree with your last point , that it has nothing to do with God.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:


If she is wearing it under her husbands instruction she would probably be more confined to the house than she is now if it was banned.
If a woman is so dominated by her husband the problem goes far deeper than an item of clothing she's forced to wear.

So banning an item of clothing that some women choose to wear for their own reasons isn't the answer imo.

By banning a thing like this, by making a stand against what it fundamentally represents, is wrong?    Don't you see that by doing so it perpetuates the subjugation of women?   I don't think the burqa has any place in our society.   If people feel strongly that they wish to wear it, then go live in a Muslim country that allows it.   If you visit some Middle Eastern countries you better cover up that hair or face or else.   Do you think that's ok?   Believe me, you would have no choice.

I don't think its anything to do with religion, more culture or tradition, and like I keep saying, if a woman chooses to wear it that's her choice.
Obviously I don't agree that any woman should be forced to wear anything she doesn't choose to, but I don't see how the banning of  it can help these women.
If they are so cowed by their husbands I can imagine that their lives would be worse if they were not allowed out showing their face.....the burka is just the tip of the iceberg if men are using this to control women.

I have been to some middle Eastern countries and I did follow their rules of covering up (shoulders arms and legs) in appropriate places....it didn't bother me because I don't feel strongly about that one way or the other.

I'd people want to wear a burkha I can't see an issue with that. People can wear what they bloody want.

I think they should be banned for security reasons - anyone could be under that covering .

They don't belong in the western world I thought these people come here to escape all that .

Not bothered what others think this is my opinion and I have every right to think and say it .

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:I think they should be banned for security reasons - anyone could be under that covering .

They don't belong in the western world I thought these people come here to escape all that .

Not bothered what others think this is my opinion and I have every right to think and say it .

Of course you do, we all do. .
I also think when driving or when asked to remove the face covering for security reasons that should be adhered to.

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:I think they should be banned for security reasons - anyone could be under that covering .

They don't belong in the western world I thought these people come here to escape all that .

Not bothered what others think this is my opinion and I have every right to think and say it .

I totally agree have a green for that VOD. Wish they would ban them here.

eddie wrote:I'd people want to wear a burkha I can't see an issue with that. People can wear what they bloody want.

well I can

not only do they represent everything that is vile and ugly and oppressive in life but it's also a major security threat,,,,,especially in today's world

they ought to be banned

Syl wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

By banning a thing like this, by making a stand against what it fundamentally represents, is wrong?    Don't you see that by doing so it perpetuates the subjugation of women?   I don't think the burqa has any place in our society.   If people feel strongly that they wish to wear it, then go live in a Muslim country that allows it.   If you visit some Middle Eastern countries you better cover up that hair or face or else.   Do you think that's ok?   Believe me, you would have no choice.

I don't think its anything to do with religion, more culture or tradition, and like I keep saying, if a woman chooses to wear it that's her choice.
Obviously I don't agree that any woman should be forced to wear anything she doesn't choose to, but I don't see how the  banning of  it can help these women.
If they are so cowed by their husbands I can imagine that their lives would be worse if they were not allowed out showing their face.....the burka is just the tip of the iceberg if men are using this to control women.

I have been to some middle Eastern countries and I did follow their rules of covering up (shoulders arms and legs) in appropriate places....it didn't bother me because I don't feel strongly about that one way or the other.

i think you would feel differently if you were forced to wear the bhurka, but you're alright jack

gelico wrote:

eddie wrote:I'd people want to wear a burkha I can't see an issue with that. People can wear what they bloody want.

well I can

not only do they represent everything that is vile and ugly and oppressive in life but it's also a major security threat,,,,,especially in today's world

they ought to be banned

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2728283/Burka-clad-gangsters-jailed-1-5million-smash-grab-jewellery-raid-Selfridges.html

Burka-clad gangsters jailed for 58 years for £1.5million smash and grab jewellery raid on Selfridges

Five members of a violent smash and grab gang who wore burkas during a daring £1.5million heist at Selfridges were today jailed for a total of 58 years.

The gang, who had carried out a similar raid at a jewellers’ in Windsor weeks earlier, threatened terrified staff and customers while smashing display cabinets and snatching expensive designer watches.

Armed with axes and sledgehammers, the gang stormed the busy store in broad daylight on June 6 last year - destroying cabinets and displays as they stole dozens of items.

gelico wrote:

eddie wrote:I'd people want to wear a burkha I can't see an issue with that. People can wear what they bloody want.

well I can

not only do they represent everything that is vile and ugly and oppressive in life but it's also a major security threat,,,,,especially in today's world

they ought to be banned

They should be removed in high-security areas such as airports for passport purposes, I agree, but walking down the road to go and buy a bunch of flowers or a snickers from the shop? Where is the issue?
You can't stop people from dressing exactly how they want to.

What is interesting in this video, the man who opposes the wearing of the burka has no respect for the woman wearing it.
He talks over her and doesn't look at her once....yet the argument on here seems to be that men oppress women by insisting they cover up.
Here the opposite seems to apply.

I've said this many times. I've known many Muslim women of all races and ages, and they all said that they chose to wear it.  
They chose. Their choice.

eddie wrote:

gelico wrote:


well I can

not only do they represent everything that is vile and ugly and oppressive in life but it's also a major security threat,,,,,especially in today's world

they ought to be banned

They should be removed in high-security areas such as airports for passport purposes, I agree, but walking down the road to go and buy a bunch of flowers or a snickers from the shop? Where is the issue?
You can't stop people from dressing exactly how they want to.

so what if you saw a man walking down the road with his wife on a dog leash??

Syl wrote:What is interesting in this video, the man who opposes the wearing of the burka has no respect for the woman wearing it.
He talks over her and doesn't look at her once....yet the argument on here seems to be  that men oppress women by insisting they cover up.
Here the opposite seems to apply.

again, she would be the first one calling for it to be banned if she was forced to wear it

smelly-bandit wrote:

eddie wrote:

gelico wrote:


well I can

not only do they represent everything that is vile and ugly and oppressive in life but it's also a major security threat,,,,,especially in today's world

they ought to be banned

They should be removed in high-security areas such as airports for passport purposes, I agree, but walking down the road to go and buy a bunch of flowers or a snickers from the shop? Where is the issue?
You can't stop people from dressing exactly how they want to.

so what if you saw a man walking down the road with his wife on a dog leash??

I'd say they were in for some pretty kinky sex....wouldn't you?

smelly-bandit wrote:

eddie wrote:

They should be removed in high-security areas such as airports for passport purposes, I agree, but walking down the road to go and buy a bunch of flowers or a snickers from the shop? Where is the issue?
You can't stop people from dressing exactly how they want to.

so what if you saw a man walking down the road with his wife on a dog leash??

Probably draw the same conclusion if it was the other way round.

Syl wrote:

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:I think they should be banned for security reasons - anyone could be under that covering .

They don't belong in the western world I thought these people come here to escape all that .

Not bothered what others think this is my opinion and I have every right to think and say it .

Of course you do, we all do.   .
I also think when driving or when asked to remove the face covering for security reasons that should be adhered to.

I really don't know how they can drive with them on - I hate even my hair flopping about when I'm driving lol

Syl wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:


so what if you saw a man walking down the road with his wife on a dog leash??

Probably draw the same conclusion if it was the other way round.

I see a pic of 'the other way round'... but you haven't said what you think about it...?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Syl wrote:

Probably draw the same conclusion if it was the other way round.

I see a pic of 'the other way round'... but you haven't said what you think about it...?

I would think he had better do as she says, unless he likes having his bum whipped.

Syl wrote:What is interesting in this video, the man who opposes the wearing of the burka has no respect for the woman wearing it.
He talks over her and doesn't look at her once....yet the argument on here seems to be  that men oppress women by insisting they cover up.
Here the opposite seems to apply.

It looks hideous - sorry but no God would want his creation to wear that . They are just horrible and oppressive in every way .

No woman should be verbally abused for wearing them - but they must know it draws attention to them and with all the terrorists attacks here how can people feel comfortable around women that wear these face coverings ?

People are bitter because of all the innocents murdered by islamic terrorists so they will keep getting verbally abused .

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


I see a pic of 'the other way round'... but you haven't said what you think about it...?

I would think he had better do as she says, unless he likes having his bum whipped.

I'm pretty certain that's the idea

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

Syl wrote:What is interesting in this video, the man who opposes the wearing of the burka has no respect for the woman wearing it.
He talks over her and doesn't look at her once....yet the argument on here seems to be  that men oppress women by insisting they cover up.
Here the opposite seems to apply.

It looks hideous - sorry but no God would want his creation to wear that . They are just horrible and oppressive in every way .

No woman should be verbally abused for wearing them - but they must know it draws attention to them and with all the terrorists attacks here how can people feel comfortable around women that wear these face coverings ?

People are bitter because of all the innocents murdered by islamic terrorists so they will keep getting verbally abused .

We see quite a lot of women wearing the burka round here VOD...to be honest the only time I ever really notice them is when they drive, which they do badly because they cant see properly....they may as well be wearing blinkers.

After the IRA bombs, two in Manchester, I know a lot of really nice Irish people felt afraid to speak when out in public, they were sometimes blamed for the terrorist acts, which of course they had nothing to do with.

Its the same thing really, apart from an Irish person wasn't so obvious, till he/she opened their mouths.

magica wrote:

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:I think they should be banned for security reasons - anyone could be under that covering .

They don't belong in the western world I thought these people come here to escape all that .

Not bothered what others think this is my opinion and I have every right to think and say it .

I totally agree have a green for that VOD. Wish they would ban them here.

Thank you

gelico wrote:

eddie wrote:I'd people want to wear a burkha I can't see an issue with that. People can wear what they bloody want.

well I can

not only do they represent everything that is vile and ugly and oppressive in life but it's also a major security threat,,,,,especially in today's world

they ought to be banned

+1

eddie wrote:I've said this many times. I've known many Muslim women of all races and ages, and they all said that they chose to wear it.  
They chose. Their choice.

well, that's all very good when it's in a free society where they can in fact choose

all these Muslim women you know, in islamic countries were they? happy with their ''choice''

I'm sure all the women at hostels for 'battered wives', escaping domestic violence from their male partners, would agree that they should have just put up with the abuse, and 'done as they were told'...!?


Next time I hear of a case of a woman being abused in that way... I will just think that 'she had better do as he says, unless she likes having her bum whipped'...!!!


Oh what fun that will be...!!!

Come on Eddie, would you wear one by choice, or if married to a Muslim and he told you to wear it you'd tell him bollocks, wouldn't you?

Eddie, Eddie?

gelico wrote:

eddie wrote:I've said this many times. I've known many Muslim women of all races and ages, and they all said that they chose to wear it.  
They chose. Their choice.

well, that's all very good when it's in a free society where they can in fact choose

all these Muslim women you know,  in islamic countries were they?   happy with their ''choice''

do you live in an Islamic country?

then what business is it of yours?
Plenty of shit the Uk does (like teach racist Anglo centric history) that most people on the planet think they shouldn't do.
the Union Jack should be banned or t least treated like the swastika, but do you brits listen to others opinions?
No, so why the do you think they are going to listen to you? what moral high ground can you possibly have, being from Britain?

If fact a typically 'British bullshit' thing to do is Trying to force YOUR opinion on other nations like you are doing. how about you work on the faults of your on culture.

eddie wrote:I've said this many times. I've known many Muslim women of all races and ages, and they all said that they chose to wear it.  
They chose. Their choice.

But that is a falsehood.

The belief is that Muslim women should cover up or that they will be committing a sin.

Now no where does it actually say in the Quran that women should wear the veil or the face veil, but they take interpretations that they are commanded to do so.

Now when someone is believed that it should be worn, its not worn out of an active choice but out of fear. A fear of suffering in the afterlife.

So the question to ask is whether you back fear being used to bow women into submission to cover up?

veya_victaous wrote:

gelico wrote:

well, that's all very good when it's in a free society where they can in fact choose

all these Muslim women you know,  in islamic countries were they?   happy with their ''choice''

do you live in an Islamic country?

then what business is it of yours?
Plenty of shit the Uk does (like teach racist Anglo centric history) that most people on the planet think they shouldn't do.
the Union Jack should be banned or t least treated like the swastika, but do  you brits listen to others opinions?
No, so why the do you think they are going to  listen to you? what moral high ground can you possibly have, being from Britain?

If fact a typically 'British bullshit' thing to do is Trying to force YOUR opinion on other nations like you are doing. how about you work on the faults of your on culture.

No
None
Actually for the past forever schools have been teaching that British are probably the worst people ever
Union Jack - Swastika,,,,,yeah, ok
I am not forcing my opinion on anyone, I am merely stating it

how about you bore off and try to concoct a post that makes sense (if you can)

gelico wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

gelico wrote:

well, that's all very good when it's in a free society where they can in fact choose

all these Muslim women you know,  in islamic countries were they?   happy with their ''choice''

do you live in an Islamic country?

then what business is it of yours?
Plenty of shit the Uk does (like teach racist Anglo centric history) that most people on the planet think they shouldn't do.
the Union Jack should be banned or t least treated like the swastika, but do  you brits listen to others opinions?
No, so why the do you think they are going to  listen to you? what moral high ground can you possibly have, being from Britain?

If fact a typically 'British bullshit' thing to do is Trying to force YOUR opinion on other nations like you are doing. how about you work on the faults of your on culture.

No
None
Actually for the past forever schools have been teaching that British are probably the worst people ever
Union Jack - Swastika,,,,,yeah, ok
I am not forcing my opinion on anyone, I am merely stating it

how about you bore off and try to concoct a post that makes sense (if you can)

it does make sense being that the union jack is a literal symbol of oppression, that enslaved and attempted genocide of many peoples across the globe.

Oh but your British so your opinion counts and the Muslim women's doesn't (or any one else's).

You have no right to tell others to stop symbolic oppression why you still openly practice it.
And YOU ARE trying to force your opinion, as your opinion is a BAN, that FORCING something, that Forces someone else to comply with your dim witted nonsense.

Yawn, your Brit bashing again Veya !

Syl wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:


so what if you saw a man walking down the road with his wife on a dog leash??

Probably draw the same conclusion if it was the other way round.

divert with humour.

gee ive never seen that tactic before

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

Syl wrote:

Of course you do, we all do.   .
I also think when driving or when asked to remove the face covering for security reasons that should be adhered to.

I really don't know how they can drive with them on - I hate even my hair flopping about when I'm driving lol

I live in an area where there's a lot of Muslims. Not once have I ever seen anyone driving with a burqa.

You guys do realize the eyes are UNcovered!

HoratioTarr wrote:

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

I really don't know how they can drive with them on - I hate even my hair flopping about when I'm driving lol

I live in an area where there's a lot of Muslims.   Not once have I ever seen anyone driving with a burqa.  

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/driver-burqa-headscarf-veil-burqa-ban-traffic-controversial-law-germany-a7962626.html

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

Syl wrote:

I would think he had better do as she says, unless he likes having his bum whipped.

I'm pretty certain that's the idea

He is no doubt planning to be very naughty.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

I really don't know how they can drive with them on - I hate even my hair flopping about when I'm driving lol

I live in an area where there's a lot of Muslims.   Not once have I ever seen anyone driving with a burqa.  

I can say hand on heart I have seen this quite a few times. A couple of times cars driven out of the side streets haven't given way and the driver was wearing a burka....the driver simply didn't see us.

SEXY MAMA wrote:You guys do realize the eyes are UNcovered!

They are, but the way some of the burkas are worn limits the ability to see as well as if the face was uncovered.
Also some are even more obstructive if they have the netting over the eyes.....I personally have never seen anyone driving wearing that design....though I doubt its actually illegal.

veya_victaous wrote:

gelico wrote:


No
None
Actually for the past forever schools have been teaching that British are probably the worst people ever
Union Jack - Swastika,,,,,yeah, ok
I am not forcing my opinion on anyone, I am merely stating it

how about you bore off and try to concoct a post that makes sense (if you can)

it does make sense being that the union jack is a literal symbol of oppression, that enslaved and attempted genocide of many peoples across the globe.

it is a symbol of unity hence the name union. it says so much about you that you would see it that way.

Oh but your British so your opinion counts  and the Muslim women's doesn't (or any one else's).

my opinion counts because I'm British but Muslim womens doesn't
you are clearly suggesting here that Muslim women cannot be British,,,why?
my opinion counts because it's my opinion no matter where I'm from,

You have no right to tell others to stop symbolic oppression why you still openly practice it.
And YOU ARE trying to force your opinion, as your opinion is a BAN, that FORCING something, that Forces someone else to comply with your dim witted nonsense.

tut tut 3/10. see me after class

smelly-bandit wrote:

Syl wrote:

Probably draw the same conclusion if it was the other way round.

divert with humour.

gee ive never seen that tactic before

Oh lighten up...a bit of humour might make you less of a pain.

SEXY MAMA wrote:You guys do realize the eyes are UNcovered!

And you do realise we're talking about a burqa, not a niqab?

veya_victaous wrote:

gelico wrote:

well, that's all very good when it's in a free society where they can in fact choose

all these Muslim women you know,  in islamic countries were they?   happy with their ''choice''

do you live in an Islamic country?

then what business is it of yours?
Plenty of shit the Uk does (like teach racist Anglo centric history) that most people on the planet think they shouldn't do.
the Union Jack should be banned or t least treated like the swastika, but do  you brits listen to others opinions?
No, so why the do you think they are going to  listen to you? what moral high ground can you possibly have, being from Britain?

If fact a typically 'British bullshit' thing to do is Trying to force YOUR opinion on other nations like you are doing. how about you work on the faults of your on culture.

Like you're trying to force your opinions and beliefs on others here, you mean?

Syl wrote:What is interesting in this video, the man who opposes the wearing of the burka has no respect for the woman wearing it.
He talks over her and doesn't look at her once....yet the argument on here seems to be  that men oppress women by insisting they cover up.
Here the opposite seems to apply.

This isn't a burqa. It's a niqab.

Denmark are following suit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4955430/Denmark-European-country-ban-burka.html

Syl wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

I live in an area where there's a lot of Muslims.   Not once have I ever seen anyone driving with a burqa.  

I can say hand on heart I have seen this quite a few times. A couple of times cars driven out of the side streets haven't given way and the driver was wearing a burka....the driver simply didn't see us.

You won't have seen them wearing a burqa. They'll have been wearing the niqab.

This clearly needs saying again

The choice is not on whether to wear, but on the belief they should wear. Thus they chose to believe that a version of Islam commands then to cover themselves up, otherwise its a sin. Of which those who do, believe if they do not, they will sin. Hence it will be a fear of a hell fire within Islam that is driving them to believe the command they must cover up.

Nobody should be stripped of wearing the hijab/burka, but to open her eyes and see how wrong it is, that fear is driving her to believe she is commanded to wear. Believing it is a sin not to cover up wearing the hijab. All of this is taught and made to make them believe they should through a fear. In order to believe some command written down 1400 years ago.

That she understands, that if this Allah existed. Where the claims is that she must cover up, to stop the sexual advances of men. Knowing full well, it does not deter men at all. As for example rapists, will rape any woman they choose as a victim, no matter how they are dressed. Which will do nothing to prevent them the sexual advances of men and from being sexually abused or raped.

Should lead her to the following conclusions.

Either the deity she believers in created a flaw in men unknowingly. A flaw that has some men rape and sexually abuse women. Making this god utterly incompetent, in-creating such a flaw unknowingly. Where even worse. Is then blaming the woman for this flaw, for how beautiful this deity created them. By then ordering them to cover up. Claiming this will prevent the sexual advances. Even though this actually does nothing to prevent the sexual advances of men. Even worse coerce them to wear with a threat of eternal hell fire, claiming its a sin not to cover up, yet again complete evil.

Or this deity created men deliberately flawed. Knowing full well, some will rape some of them anyway. (pure evil). To then yet again blame women. For the beauty this deity has created themselves and command them to cover up. Knowing again, that this command will do nothing to deter the sexual advances of men. Thus playing a rather sick game with Muslim women. Fooling them to believe it will stop men, when it never will. Even worse coerce them to wear with a threat of eternal hell fire, claiming its a sin not to cover up, yet again complete evil.

Thus showing how the Hijab is nothing more than born from the beliefs of men, in order to control women. Clearly not born from a supposed all loving God.

So you will forgive me if I do not see the Hijab/Burka as a symbol of free expression or the empowerment of women, but the control and oppression of them.

Especially where many of their Muslims sisters are forced to wear

Syl wrote:

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

It looks hideous - sorry but no God would want his creation to wear that . They are just horrible and oppressive in every way .

No woman should be verbally abused for wearing them - but they must know it draws attention to them and with all the terrorists attacks here how can people feel comfortable around women that wear these face coverings ?

People are bitter because of all the innocents murdered by islamic terrorists so they will keep getting verbally abused .

We see quite a lot of women wearing the burka round here VOD...to be honest the only time I ever really notice them is when they drive, which they do badly because they cant see properly....they may as well be wearing blinkers.

After the IRA bombs, two in Manchester, I know a lot of really nice Irish people felt afraid to speak when out in public,  they were sometimes blamed for the terrorist acts, which of course they had nothing to do with.

Its the same thing really, apart from an Irish person wasn't so obvious, till he/she opened their mouths.  

Of course not all moslems are terrorists I know this - but it opens the way for terrorists to get away with the dirty deed disguised under a burka .