Austrian police force women to uncover their faces as country's 'burka ban' comes into force

First topic message reminder :

A Muslim woman was forced to remove her veil today as the ban on full-face veils came into force in Austria.
Items concealing the face in public places, such as the full Islamic veil, medical masks and scarves to cover faces have been outlawed.
Only under certain conditions, such as 'at cultural events', will people be able to wear them in public.
The laws are aimed at 'ensuring the cohesion of society in an open society' and anyone violating the rules could be hit with a €150 fine.

On Sunday, a Muslim woman defying the rule was spotted being told to remove her veil in the town of Zell am See.
In a ruling announcing the ban, officials in Vienna said: 'Acceptance and respect of Austrian values are basic conditions for successful cohabitation between the majority Austrian population and people from third countries living in Austria.'
The measures, similar to those in other European Union countries, also apply to visitors even though large numbers of Arab tourists holiday in the Alpine country.

How the burqa ban has divided opinion across Europe

There is no law restricting the wearing of garments for religious reasons.
However in March 2007 the education ministry published directives allowing directors of public establishments and denominational schools to ban the niqab veil.

Judges have on occasion refused to hear veiled women because they could not verify their identity.
The legislation, which has passed the lower house and now has to be approved by the Senate, bans the wearing of burkas, helmets and face masks on public transport as well as education, healthcare and government buildings.
The bill was proposed by Interior Minister Ronald Plasterk last year, as he believed clothing that covered the face hindered communication in public services and could pose a security threat. Violations could result in a fine of up to 410 euros.

Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere has proposed a partial burka ban. De Maiziere, one of Merkel's closest allies, said the ban would cover 'places where it is necessary for our society's coexistence' including government offices, schools and universities, courtrooms as well as demonstrations.

The first European country to ban the full-veil in public spaces with a law 'banning the hiding of the face in public spaces', with a law that took effect in April 2011.

The European Court of Human Rights upheld the burka ban in 2014, rejecting arguments that outlawing full-face veils breached religious freedom. The law has resulted in around 1,500 arrests in the past five years, and violations can result in fines of up to 150 euros.

Earlier this year, several French towns sought to ban burkinis, the full-body Islamic swimsuit. The move was successfully challenged in all but one case on the island of Corsica.
The wearing of the full veil is governed by a June 1, 2011 law. It prohibits 'appearing in places accessible to the public with a face masked or hidden, in whole or in part, in such a way as to be unidentifiable'. Exceptions exist, in particular where the workplace requires the face to be hidden, or for the carnival season. Violations can result in fines and/or up to seven days in jail.

In September, Bulgarian lawmakers approved a law that bans wearing in public clothing that partially or completely covers the face, with exceptions for health or professional reasons. Initial violations result in a fine of roughly 100 euros, while subsequent violations are fined the equivalent of 750 euros.

There is currently a debate over a 1975 law aimed at protecting public order that makes it illegal to cover one's face in public places and the provision applies to the veil, as well as motorcycle helmets and other masks.
The anti-immigrant Northern League presented in October a draft law in the Lombardy region around Milan that would ban the burka, niqab and burkini.

A region in the Italian Riviera is to ban women from wearing the Islamic niqab in hospitals and public offices.
Officials in the northern region of Liguria announced plans to enforce the ban in what is described as an attempt to defend women's freedom.

Switzerland's lower house narrowly approved in September a draft bill on a nationwide burka ban, but the measure remains far from becoming law. In the southern Tessin region however, the burka has been forbidden since July 1 and violators face a minimum fine of 100 Swiss francs.

Education Minister Torbjorn Roe Isaksen said in October that the government was seeking regulations prohibiting the full-face veil in schools and universities. Scandinavian neighbours such as Denmark and Sweden have allowed schools, administrations and companies to decide the issue for themselves, while there is no ban in Finland.
Three other countries that have not banned the burka are among those closest to the Middle East or North Africa - Greece, Portugal and Spain.

Morocco has banned the production and sale of burqa full-face Muslim veils for security reasons.
While there was no official announcement by authorities in the North African nation, the reports said the interior ministry order would take effect this week.

The ban has been imposed due to reports felons have been using the garment to help carry out their crimes.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4938126/Muslim-woman-forced-remove-veil-Austria.html

SEXY MAMA wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Well, we can all cut and paste different 'Dictionary' meanings, can't we?

chadoror chadar, chaddar, chuddar
[chuhd-er]
Spell  Syllables
Examples Word Origin
noun
1.
the traditional garment of Muslim and Hindu women, consisting of a long, usually black or drab-colored cloth or veil that envelops the body from head to foot and covers all or part of the face.

Hence why I said the chador is an Urdu word.

It means a shawl.

It's not just Urdu though, is it?

چادر ćādar, s.f. A sheet; a table-cloth; a covering; a coverlet; a calico mantle or wrapper (of one fold, which reaches from the head to the ankles)

That taken from the Urdu dictionary.


ČĀDOR, a loose female garment covering the body, sometimes also the face (Figure 1). The etymology of the word is unknown; connection with Indian chattra “parasol” is uncertain (cf. ČATR).

Taken from the Iranian/Persian dictionary.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Syl wrote:

Well said.

Thanks.

You know what I fin funny Syl?

Is people like Smelly and Didge not knowing a Muslim in real life and assuming things from their own persepective.

What i also find funny, most people who dont like the burka, for whatever reasons, state their opinion and leave others to state theirs.
The other two try to browbeat, going on and on .......about women who are browbeaten into wearing the burka.
Ironic or what?

SEXY MAMA wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Well, we can all cut and paste different 'Dictionary' meanings, can't we?

chadoror chadar, chaddar, chuddar
[chuhd-er]
Spell  Syllables
Examples Word Origin
noun
1.
the traditional garment of Muslim and Hindu women, consisting of a long, usually black or drab-colored cloth or veil that envelops the body from head to foot and covers all or part of the face.

The definition is wrong.

The face covering is known as a niqaab or even a burkha.

The burkha in the classic sense is worn in the Islamic countries which covers the full face.

In this country eyes are always exposed.

When was the last time you visited Manchester?

I've seen women wearing full black garments with a black chiffon covering over the eyes. I've seen it in London and Bradford too. Admittedly, you don't see it a lot but a few do. I should't think it's even legal to drive with one of those on. Hence, I've never seen anyone driving around with one on.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

As a. Non. Muslim man I've seen it from the outside and you're wrong

Outside - inside

Which one is closer

What are you talking about...!!!???


Smelly said...

'...The bhurka is a uniform that reinforces the stereotype of a radical Muslim and only serves to divide and segregate...'


This is true for both those wearing this garb, as well as everyone else who happen to encounter those wearing this garb...!

Tommy Monk wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Outside - inside

Which one is closer

What are you talking about...!!!???


Smelly said...

'...The bhurka is a uniform that reinforces the stereotype of a radical Muslim and only serves to divide and segregate...'


This is true for both those wearing this garb, as well as everyone else who happen to encounter those wearing this garb...!

I think its obvious that if you are a Muslim woman, living amongst other Muslim women, being brought up in Muslim communities, you would have a clearer idea of how a Muslim woman thinks and acts than a none Muslim man who has probably garnered his opinions from google or the Daily Mail..

Funny that... as we keep being told that we are all 'the same'...


And you have just confirmed Smelly's post...

Opposition to the burka certainly is partly built on the perception of non-Muslims. That isn't unfair. As mentioned, when you cover the entire face it becomes impossible to read someone's genuine thoughts and expressions. It is therefore a barrier to complete trust. Why stop people seeing your true self?

And give over with the modesty argument. If a man suddenly suggested covering his face for modesty reasons he'd be laughed out of town, including Muslim men. If this thing is so special then someone please tell me ths honest to goodness reason only women wear it.

You wouldn't trust a guy who refuses to show his face, so why is this different?

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Syl wrote:

Well said.

Thanks.

You know what I find funny Syl?

Is people like Smelly and Didge not knowing a Muslim in real life and assuming things from their own persepective.

So now you invent things, untrue because you cannot answer countless points to you.

That is being utterly gutless sexy.

I raised many points to you and then you made unfounded claims to things I never even said.

I asked you to back up your claims and this is all you ever do, continue to lie further, in the hope you gain support from people. You continually misdirected, mainly as you are an utter sheep and defend a belief, that is misogynistic. All you only care about is defending your ffaith, no matter if that faith demeans and abuses women. How abouty you seriously start actually taking the outsider test and look at your faith, as you would look at any other belief you do not believe in, but you have not the strengh to do so, as it would shatter your illusions.

When will you learn to stand on your own two feet and actually address points raised to you?

As all you did above was completely and utterly wrongly assume and avoid everything asked of you.

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


What are you talking about...!!!???


Smelly said...

'...The bhurka is a uniform that reinforces the stereotype of a radical Muslim and only serves to divide and segregate...'


This is true for both those wearing this garb, as well as everyone else who happen to encounter those wearing this garb...!

I think its obvious that if you are a Muslim woman, living amongst other Muslim women, being brought up in Muslim communities, you would have a clearer idea of how a Muslim woman thinks and acts than a none Muslim man who has probably garnered his opinions from google or the Daily Mail..

Then why not listen to ex-Muslims as well as Muslims then?

I think the Burka was "invented" by a Woman, because young Muslim men are so sex starved that the glimpse of any part of a Woman sends them into a frenzy of lust !!---------------I could be joking-----couldn't I?

SEXY MAMA wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

As a. Non. Muslim man I've seen it from the outside and you're wrong

Outside - inside

Which one is closer

I think "can't see the wood for the trees" is an appropriate response to this

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


What are you talking about...!!!???


Smelly said...

'...The bhurka is a uniform that reinforces the stereotype of a radical Muslim and only serves to divide and segregate...'


This is true for both those wearing this garb, as well as everyone else who happen to encounter those wearing this garb...!

I think its obvious that if you are a Muslim woman, living amongst other Muslim women, being brought up in Muslim communities, you would have a clearer idea of how a Muslim woman thinks and acts than a none Muslim man who has probably garnered his opinions from google or the Daily Mail..

Nothing isolationist about that statement is there??

And there i Was thinking we were all past of the UNITED KINGDOM but according to you it's the United kingdom and the Muslim community.

Tommy Monk wrote:Funny that... as we keep being told that we are all 'the same'...


And you have just confirmed Smelly's post...

Who says we are 'all the same'?
It would be a very odd world if peoples cultures and traditions all merged into one....I would hate to live in a world like that.

smelly-bandit wrote:

The bible states that Eve was made from Adams rib....which from the very beginning makes the woman inferior to the man, if you believe that claptrap nothing more to be said.....

HoratioTarr wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

The definition is wrong.

The face covering is known as a niqaab or even a burkha.

The burkha in the classic sense is worn in the Islamic countries which covers the full face.

In this country eyes are always exposed.

When was the last time you visited Manchester?

I've seen women wearing full black garments with a black chiffon covering over the eyes.  I've seen it in London and Bradford too.   Admittedly, you don't see it a lot but a few do.   I should't think it's even legal to drive with one of those on.  Hence, I've never seen anyone driving around with one on.

You see them in Merseyside too.

Miffs2 wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

When was the last time you visited Manchester?

I've seen women wearing full black garments with a black chiffon covering over the eyes.  I've seen it in London and Bradford too.   Admittedly, you don't see it a lot but a few do.   I should't think it's even legal to drive with one of those on.  Hence, I've never seen anyone driving around with one on.

You see them in Merseyside too.

Yes we see them here too, not many, they are incredibly ugly imo... I have never seen a woman driving in one.

Syl wrote:

Miffs2 wrote:

You see them in Merseyside too.

Yes we see them here too, not many, they are incredibly ugly imo... I have never seen a woman driving in one.

I haven't seen anyone driving in one either.
I can only speak for myself, but I absolutely loathe and detest them, they unnerve me.

Miffs2 wrote:

Syl wrote:

Yes we see them here too, not many, they are incredibly ugly imo... I have never seen a woman driving in one.

I haven't seen anyone driving in one either.
I can only speak for myself, but I absolutely loathe and detest them, they unnerve me.

I honestly think that's why a lot of people want them banned.

I know on here a couple have tried to be all pc and womens lib, oddly the same two who speak down to women most of the time..I prefer the honest approach.

Syl wrote:

Miffs2 wrote:

I haven't seen anyone driving in one either.
I can only speak for myself, but I absolutely loathe and detest them, they unnerve me.

I honestly think that's why a lot of people want them banned.

I know on here a couple have tried to be all pc and womens lib, oddly the same two who speak down to women most of the time..I prefer the honest approach.

I don't think you could ever put the Burkha and women's lib in the same sentence.
People can waffle all they like but women are viewed as second class citizens by some.

Syl wrote:

Miffs2 wrote:

I haven't seen anyone driving in one either.
I can only speak for myself, but I absolutely loathe and detest them, they unnerve me.

I honestly think that's why a lot of people want them banned.

I know on here a couple have tried to be all pc and womens lib, oddly the same two who speak down to women most of the time..I prefer the honest approach.

i would like to see them banned because they are hideous and are not our culture they belong in islamic countries , nothing to do with driving in them although that is a hazard and they are security risk .

Miffs2 wrote:

Syl wrote:

I honestly think that's why a lot of people want them banned.

I know on here a couple have tried to be all pc and womens lib, oddly the same two who speak down to women most of the time..I prefer the honest approach.

I don't think you could ever put the Burkha and women's lib in the same sentence.
People can waffle all they like but women are viewed as second class citizens by some.

They are...and many white upstanding none Muslim men can be just as bad....cough cough...Trump.

Miffs2 wrote:

Syl wrote:

Yes we see them here too, not many, they are incredibly ugly imo... I have never seen a woman driving in one.

I haven't seen anyone driving in one either.
I can only speak for myself, but I absolutely loathe and detest them, they unnerve me.

I have, in London you see a few driving in them and walking around in them.

They make me nervous and like you Miffs, I hate them. If im shopping and look up, they make me jump. Ive always said no one would walk around in a crash helmet or balaclava and get away with it.

They're not religious so they should be banned, when in Rome and all that.

magica wrote:

Miffs2 wrote:

I haven't seen anyone driving in one either.
I can only speak for myself, but I absolutely loathe and detest them, they unnerve me.

I have, in London you see a few driving in them and walking around in them.

They make me nervous and like you Miffs, I hate them.  If im shopping and look up, they make me jump.  Ive always said no one would walk around in a crash helmet or balaclava and get away with it.

They're not religious so they should be banned, when in Rome and all that.

They honestly remind me of black shadows or demons floating about - just horrible in every way .

Nobody's asking anyone of you to 'like' it.

I don't like a lot of things some women wear, but that's their choice and they should be entitled to wear what they want.

The women who want to wear it should be allowed to wear it, it's their 'choice' and that's the whole point.

The rest is BS.

The video at 18 minutes goes into detail on what is being discussed here.

SEXY MAMA wrote:Nobody's asking anyone of you to 'like' it.

I don't like a lot of things some women wear, but that's their choice and they should be entitled to wear what they want.

The women who want to wear it should be allowed to wear it, it's their 'choice' and that's the whole point.

The rest is BS.

That is exactly the point....choice.

Banning the burka hasn't improved matters in the countries where this has happened. According to the earlier link countries like Belgium, France. Bulgaria, Austria, have seen the social divide between Muslims and none Muslims widen.
Some women in the Netherlands have said they feel like prisoners in their own homes.

Syl wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:Nobody's asking anyone of you to 'like' it.

I don't like a lot of things some women wear, but that's their choice and they should be entitled to wear what they want.

The women who want to wear it should be allowed to wear it, it's their 'choice' and that's the whole point.

The rest is BS.

That is exactly the point....choice.

Banning the burka hasn't improved matters in the countries where this has happened. According to the earlier link countries  like Belgium, France. Bulgaria, Austria, have seen the social divide between Muslims and none Muslims widen.
Some women in the Netherlands have said they feel like prisoners in their own homes.

see, perfect example of how evil islam is

gelico wrote:

Syl wrote:

That is exactly the point....choice.

Banning the burka hasn't improved matters in the countries where this has happened. According to the earlier link countries  like Belgium, France. Bulgaria, Austria, have seen the social divide between Muslims and none Muslims widen.
Some women in the Netherlands have said they feel like prisoners in their own homes.

see, perfect example of how evil islam is

Well its certainly not helping women by banning it if they are so cowed by their husbands is it?...its actually making their lives worse.

Syl wrote:

gelico wrote:

see, perfect example of how evil islam is

Well its certainly not helping women by banning it if they are so cowed by their husbands is it?...its actually making their lives worse.

i know, which is why i say how evil that cult is

if a woman doesn;t wear ''proper Muslim attire'' then she cant go out

thats islam

personally i think it should be categorised as a terror organisation and banned in the west

if they wanna live 7th century stylie go do it back in islamic ruled countries

gelico wrote:

Syl wrote:

Well its certainly not helping women by banning it if they are so cowed by their husbands is it?...its actually making their lives worse.

i know, which is why i say how evil that cult is

if a woman doesn;t wear ''proper Muslim attire'' then she cant go out

thats islam

personally i think it should be categorised as a terror organisation and banned in the west

if they wanna live 7th century stylie go do it back in islamic ruled countries

I agree Gel. Why come to Christian countries but wear Muslim clothes. They should stay in their own countries.

gelico wrote:

Syl wrote:

Well its certainly not helping women by banning it if they are so cowed by their husbands is it?...its actually making their lives worse.

i know, which is why i say how evil that cult is

if a woman doesn;t wear ''proper Muslim attire'' then she cant go out

thats islam

personally i think it should be categorised as a terror organisation and banned in the west

if they wanna live 7th century stylie go do it back in islamic ruled countries

I suppose, like every religion, it depends on the way its translated.
We said before the bible is full of death and destruction if its followed literally.

magica wrote:

gelico wrote:

i know, which is why i say how evil that cult is

if a woman doesn;t wear ''proper Muslim attire'' then she cant go out

thats islam

personally i think it should be categorised as a terror organisation and banned in the west

if they wanna live 7th century stylie go do it back in islamic ruled countries

I agree Gel. Why come to Christian countries but wear Muslim clothes. They should stay in their own countries.

Many Muslims were born here Mags....where would you send them?

Syl wrote:

gelico wrote:

i know, which is why i say how evil that cult is

if a woman doesn;t wear ''proper Muslim attire'' then she cant go out

thats islam

personally i think it should be categorised as a terror organisation and banned in the west

if they wanna live 7th century stylie go do it back in islamic ruled countries

I suppose, like every religion, it depends on the way its translated.
We said before the bible is full of death and destruction if its followed literally.

nobody lives by leviticus or deuteronomy or any other book in the bible though syl

christianity is merely the church

the state is a different thing altogether

you do not have that in islam. the religion and the state are the same thing entirely and every law made comes from whatever interpretation they put on the hadiths or koran

that's the difference

gelico wrote:

Syl wrote:

I suppose, like every religion, it depends on the way its translated.
We said before the bible is full of death and destruction if its followed literally.

nobody lives by leviticus or deuteronomy or any other book in the bible though syl

christianity is merely the church

the state is a different thing altogether

you do not have that in islam.  the religion and the state are the same thing entirely and every law made comes from whatever interpretation they put on the hadiths or koran

that's the difference

I don't know that much about it tbh Gelico, I have never read it. I do know that millions of Muslims do live peacefully in the countries where they live, so they must follow that countries laws rather than the ones set down in the Quaran, even if they differ.

My personal opinion is if some women are forced to wear the burka rather than choose to wear it, the problems they face lie far deeper than banning an item of clothing, which may actually be giving them freedom they wouldn't have if the item was banned in public.

Syl wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:Nobody's asking anyone of you to 'like' it.

I don't like a lot of things some women wear, but that's their choice and they should be entitled to wear what they want.

The women who want to wear it should be allowed to wear it, it's their 'choice' and that's the whole point.

The rest is BS.

That is exactly the point....choice.

Banning the burka hasn't improved matters in the countries where this has happened. According to the earlier link countries  like Belgium, France. Bulgaria, Austria, have seen the social divide between Muslims and none Muslims widen.
Some women in the Netherlands have said they feel like prisoners in their own homes.

And that just sums it all up, doesn't it? They can't cover up, therefore, they become prisoners in their own homes?

Syl wrote:

gelico wrote:


nobody lives by leviticus or deuteronomy or any other book in the bible though syl

christianity is merely the church

the state is a different thing altogether

you do not have that in islam.  the religion and the state are the same thing entirely and every law made comes from whatever interpretation they put on the hadiths or koran

that's the difference

I don't know that much about it tbh Gelico, I have never read it. I do know that millions of Muslims do live peacefully in the countries where they live, so they must follow that countries laws rather than the ones set down in the Quaran, even if they differ.

My personal opinion is if some women are forced to wear the burka rather than choose to wear it, the problems they face lie far deeper than banning an item of clothing, which may actually be giving them freedom they wouldn't have if the item was banned in public.

Don't you think a revolution is due?

Syl wrote:

magica wrote:

I agree Gel. Why come to Christian countries but wear Muslim clothes. They should stay in their own countries.

Many Muslims were born here Mags....where would you send them?

To Muslim countries.

gelico wrote:

Syl wrote:

I suppose, like every religion, it depends on the way its translated.
We said before the bible is full of death and destruction if its followed literally.

nobody lives by leviticus or deuteronomy or any other book in the bible though syl

christianity is merely the church

the state is a different thing altogether

you do not have that in islam.  the religion and the state are the same thing entirely and every law made comes from whatever interpretation they put on the hadiths or koran

that's the difference

There are 42,000 Christian denominations.

Its not the same thing in all Muslim majority countries and basically what you are doing is claiming all Muslims, are extremists. Talk about ensuring the world then becomes further divided.

This country was also once backward with its Christian beliefs.

It changed through enlightenment, secularism and equality, through liberal ideas, of which many Christians have adapted. Which you see this happen within many religions. Many Muslims have adpated these principles, sadly not enough. Which is why it is important to speak out against bad ideas.

Your idea to class Islam as terrorist has no bases and makes little sense. As you are then classing all Muslims as terrorists. Which is absurd. Basically sticking two fingers up to Muslims who flee oppression. 

You do not solve a problem by attempting to push it away.

That has never worked

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:

That is exactly the point....choice.

Banning the burka hasn't improved matters in the countries where this has happened. According to the earlier link countries  like Belgium, France. Bulgaria, Austria, have seen the social divide between Muslims and none Muslims widen.
Some women in the Netherlands have said they feel like prisoners in their own homes.

And that just sums it all up, doesn't it?   They can't cover up, therefore, they become prisoners in their own homes?    

Yes, so lets take away the small amount of freedom they have by banning it ....would it not be better to deal with the problem at source...ie an abusive husband, there are already laws to deal with abuse.

magica wrote:

Syl wrote:

Many Muslims were born here Mags....where would you send them?

To Muslim countries.

If you go and live in a Muslim country that enforces the veil on women, then you live by that ruling whether you're Muslim or not. So, if you feel so strongly about wearing a body covering that is banned, then go live in a country that can indulge you.

Didge wrote:There are 42,000 Christian denominations.

Interesting. Please name them all...

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:There are 42,000 Christian denominations.

Interesting.  Please name them all...

Please research this yourself

Actually its 45,000


http://www.gordonconwell.edu/resources/documents/StatusOfGlobalMission.pdf

Syl wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

And that just sums it all up, doesn't it?   They can't cover up, therefore, they become prisoners in their own homes?    

Yes, so lets take away the small amount of freedom they have by banning it   ....would it not be better to deal with the problem at source...ie an abusive husband, there are already laws to deal with abuse.

How can you deal with an abusive domestic relationship when it's constantly reinforced by a device like a full body covering? That woman is her husband's property, and no amount of White Western Middle Class Bleeding Heart Liberal Hee Hawing will change it. You have to take this right back to the grass roots. Right back to the fundamentals that put women in subjugation in the first place. Right back to the male misogynistic dominant psyche that's been nurtured and perpetuated for centuries. The West saying...'No, you can't wear this device of control and subjugation in our society' is a start. It sends out a message that women are not things to be hidden or cloistered. Didn't you ever see those Syrian women pulling off their burqas and stamping on them when ISIS went into retreat?

HoratioTarr wrote:

magica wrote:

To Muslim countries.

If you go and live in a Muslim country that enforces the veil on women, then you live by that ruling whether you're Muslim or not.   So, if you feel so strongly about wearing a body covering that is banned, then go live in a country that can indulge you.  

Our way of life, with the freedom, and choice that the people enjoy is hardly comparable with Muslim countries.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:
Yes, so lets take away the small amount of freedom they have by banning it   ....would it not be better to deal with the problem at source...ie an abusive husband, there are already laws to deal with abuse.

How can you deal with an abusive domestic relationship when it's constantly reinforced by a device like a full body covering?    That woman is her husband's property, and no amount of White Western Middle Class Bleeding Heart Liberal Hee Hawing will change it.  You have to take this right back to the grass roots.   Right back to the fundamentals that put women in subjugation in the first place.   Right back to the male misogynistic dominant psyche that's been nurtured and perpetuated for centuries.    The West saying...'No, you can't wear this device of control and subjugation in our society' is a start.    It sends out a message that women are not things to be hidden or cloistered.    Didn't you ever see those Syrian women pulling off their burqas and stamping on them when ISIS went into retreat?

Good for them seriously, but what of the women who are only allowed out covered?
Where would that leave them?

Syl wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

And that just sums it all up, doesn't it?   They can't cover up, therefore, they become prisoners in their own homes?    

Yes, so lets take away the small amount of freedom they have by banning it   ....would it not be better to deal with the problem at source...ie an abusive husband, there are already laws to deal with abuse.

You should have watched the iman in the video I posted who stated it should be banned based on equality reasons.

You should watch it.

You do realize also that the face veil is banned in some Muslim majority countries?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab_by_country

Syl wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

How can you deal with an abusive domestic relationship when it's constantly reinforced by a device like a full body covering?    That woman is her husband's property, and no amount of White Western Middle Class Bleeding Heart Liberal Hee Hawing will change it.  You have to take this right back to the grass roots.   Right back to the fundamentals that put women in subjugation in the first place.   Right back to the male misogynistic dominant psyche that's been nurtured and perpetuated for centuries.    The West saying...'No, you can't wear this device of control and subjugation in our society' is a start.    It sends out a message that women are not things to be hidden or cloistered.    Didn't you ever see those Syrian women pulling off their burqas and stamping on them when ISIS went into retreat?

Good for them seriously, but what of the women who are only allowed out covered?
Where would that leave them?

Feeling sorry for them doesn't help though does it? It needs action. So that they are never in that position in the first place. So they have equality in every way.