Is It Mainly Immigrants Who Kill People In The UK Now?

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:01 am

First topic message reminder :

28th January 2014

I watch, and read the news quite a bit and have noticed that most court cases involve people with foreign-sounding names.

Why is it the case that so many murder and manslaughter cases involve foreign people?

Please discuss.

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:30 pm

Table 5.04: British national prison population by self-identified ethnicity,
England and Wales, as at 30 June, 2008 to 2012
Self-identified ethnicity (numbers)
White Black Asian Mixed Chinese or Other Not Stated/ Unknown Total

2008 56,370 7,828 3,707 2,248 203 395 70,751
2009 56,692 7,782 3,875 2,452 183 246 71,231
2009 56,497 7,752 3,849 2,435 189 176 70,898
2010 55,462 7,647 3,897 2,488 181 1,341 71,016
2011 56,894 7,617 4,121 2,683 157 1,558 73,030
2012 56,631 7,756 4,228 2,723 183 1,717 73,238

Self-identified ethnicity (percentages)
White Black Asian MixedChinese or Other Not Stated/ Unknown(2) Total

2008 79.7% 11.1% 5.2% 3.2% 0.3% 0.6% 70,751
2009 79.6% 10.9% 5.4% 3.4% 0.3% 0.3% 71,231
2009 79.7% 10.9% 5.4% 3.4% 0.3% 0.2% 70,898
2010 78.1% 10.8% 5.5% 3.5% 0.3% 1.9% 71,016
2011 77.9% 10.4% 5.6% 3.7% 0.2% 2.1% 73,030
2012 77.3% 10.6% 5.8% 3.7% 0.2% 2.3% 73,238

there Ya go crime by ethnicity....things to note immediately

Notice the 8 fold increas by those classed as not stated/unknown,,,,that'll be yer eastern europeans then.....

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:31 pm

oh and thats from here...before digi poo has a hissy fit

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/269399/Race-and-cjs-2012.pdf

page 102 to save yer searching

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:32 pm

Having worked for the Prison Service for over 5 years I can say that those figure are bunkem.

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:33 pm

Sassy wrote:
grumpy old git wrote:

Thanks sass, but for the purposes of this your input isnt asked for.....

I realise that Victor, but I was on the receiving end of all of their bile, so I have an interest in it all coming out. But I'll leave the rest to you, because you have certainly done a good job in exposing it.

Exposing what, that now where I was not involved, you are claiming I manipulated the others, one moment

://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/:

You were the guilty one, in factask any on there if I had anything to do with your melt down?

Please do, hilarious I am now being blamed for you posting details about posters, you really cannot make it up how badly guilty you are to now blame me when I was never involved.

Please some more of Victor being a paranoid loon this is priceless

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:36 pm

grumpy old git wrote:Table 5.04: British national prison population by self-identified ethnicity,
England and Wales, as at 30 June, 2008 to 2012
Self-identified ethnicity (numbers)
White Black Asian Mixed Chinese or Other Not Stated/ Unknown Total

2008 56,370 7,828 3,707 2,248 203 395 70,751
2009 56,692 7,782 3,875 2,452 183 246 71,231
2009 56,497 7,752 3,849 2,435 189 176 70,898
2010 55,462 7,647 3,897 2,488 181 1,341 71,016
2011 56,894 7,617 4,121 2,683 157 1,558 73,030
2012 56,631 7,756 4,228 2,723 183 1,717 73,238

Self-identified ethnicity (percentages)
White Black Asian MixedChinese or Other Not Stated/ Unknown(2) Total

2008 79.7% 11.1% 5.2% 3.2% 0.3% 0.6% 70,751
2009 79.6% 10.9% 5.4% 3.4% 0.3% 0.3% 71,231
2009 79.7% 10.9% 5.4% 3.4% 0.3% 0.2% 70,898
2010 78.1% 10.8% 5.5% 3.5% 0.3% 1.9% 71,016
2011 77.9% 10.4% 5.6% 3.7% 0.2% 2.1% 73,030
2012 77.3% 10.6% 5.8% 3.7% 0.2% 2.3% 73,238

there Ya go crime by ethnicity....things to note immediately

Notice the 8 fold increas by those classed as not stated/unknown,,,,that'll be yer eastern europeans then.....

But not murder, so if many blacks are involved in drug related crime and many whites are involved in sex related crime, what does that tell you dear Victor?

Do you also take into what helps create crime, would you like the psychology on that also?

So A person known to support the BNP, claiming not to be racist, using a BNP argument on crime now with ethnicity, not if they are British, which again moots his argument on foreigners.

Exposed

So now we know Victor is a BNP racist, we need to understand why he did not post stats on criminals who are foreign?

Would you like to see that those convicted in jail which is 13% the exact same figure for the foreign population

Oh dear whoopsy

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:43 pm

ethnic back ground in england

white 86%
mixed 2.2%
Asian/asian british 7.5%
black/african/carribean 3.3
other 1%

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:43 pm

Lets really throw a spanner if the BNP argument presented by Victor, we know that Blacks and Asians no matter if British or foreign are over represented in stop and search and what else?

Courts are biased against blacks’ with white offenders handed more lenient sentences, says official report

Judges and magistrates are institutionally racist, consistently handing down more lenient sentences to white criminals, an official Government study has revealed.

The disturbing report, produced by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ), shows that black and Asian defendants are almost 20 per cent more likely to be sent to jail than those who are white. At the same time, the average prison sentence given to Caucasian criminals by courts in England and Wales is seven months shorter than those given to Afro-Caribbean offenders.

The report separates conviction and sentencing rates by comparable offences and pleas, excluding the possibility of the data being inaccurately skewed. The Ministry of Justice said yesterday that ministers were aware “without a shadow of a doubt” that there were problems with the system, and said work had begun to address it as an area of “increasing concern”.

“The Criminal Justice System should work to promote equality, and should not discriminate against anyone because of their race,” the Criminal Justice Minister Damian Green said. “Targeting a person or a group based on their race or religion is unacceptable, it is divisive and harmful to individuals and has no place in a civilised society.”

However, Labour suggested the Equalities and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) should carry out its own investigation into racial bias in the judiciary, claiming work done under the last Government had “ground to a halt”. One leading black barrister said the figures showed that the courts, like the police, were “institutionally racist”.

A spokesman for the EHRC said it was “aware of the issues behind the report” and would “examine the concerns raised”.

The MoJ document, Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System 2012, was published without fanfare on the department’s website. It shows that over the past four years black criminals have been less likely to receive police cautions and more likely to have been proceeded against in court, than any other ethnic groups.

The most common outcome for a white criminal was a community sentence; for Black, Asian and Chinese offenders it was custody. The statistics are broken down by types of crime, ruling out the possibility that black defendants might be being proportionally found guilty of more serious offences.

Disturbingly, in every year studied, a higher proportion of white defendants had previous convictions – which would normally result in a greater number of prosecutions and harsher sentences. But this does not appear to be the case.

The proportion of white criminals sentenced to immediate custody by the courts was 26 per cent while the proportion of black criminals sent to prison was 31 per cent and Asians 32 per cent. The average custodial sentence for white offenders was 15.9 months; for black prisoners it was 23.4 months.

Different types of crime also show sentencing differences. A white person pleading guilty to burglary was sentenced to, on average, 25 months in prison compared with a black person who typically received a 28-month sentence. Of those pleading not guilty but convicted by the courts, the sentences were 40 months and 47 months respectively.

Similarly, 76 per cent of white people convicted of production or supply of a class A drug were sentenced to immediate custody compared with 84.8 per cent of black people.

One former prison governor said that he believed there was a degree of “establishment denial” about the problem. “When I worked in Brixton prison, of the 900 prisoners we had, between 60 and 65 per cent were non-white, which was completely disproportionate to the make-up of the community,” said Paul McDowell, now chief executive of the crime reduction charity Nacro.

“This was a direct consequence of what was happening in the courts. But there is a degree of establishment denial. There seems to be a view that the judiciary are independent and cannot be interfered with. But that lack of challenge is at the root of the problem.”

Peter Herbert, chairman of the Society of Black Lawyers and a crown court judge, said the figures represented “institutional racism”. “I’m not sure what else you can call it,” he said. “The effect is right across the criminal justice system. From stop and search, to arrest, to charge and to sentencing – every aspect of the process is stacked against defendants from ethnic minority backgrounds. It is not a pretty picture.”

Mr Herbert said the figures needed to be broken down to individual court level, and judges confronted with their sentencing decisions. “It needs urgent attention,” he said. “I don’t believe that judges are sitting there consciously discriminating against black defendants, but if you look at the cumulative effect of sentencing decisions there is no rational explanation for the discrepancies.

“We need to drill down into the figures and ensure that they are examined on a court-by-court basis. Judges then need to ask themselves hard questions.”

Richard Monkhouse, chairman of the Magistrates’ Association, said a unit in the MoJ that had examined the issue under the Labour government had been disbanded. “I think that’s a real pity because only by understanding what is going on can we begin to address the problem. Judges have to operate within tight sentencing guidelines. So, why is there still disproportionality?

“It’s crucial that people know our system of open and transparent justice will deal with them fairly and equally, regardless of gender, class, age, race or religion.”

Shadow Justice Secretary Sadiq Khan said: “If the colour of your skin means you are treated unfairly by our justice system then urgent action is required to address that.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/courts-are-biased-against-blacks-with-white-offenders-less-likely-to-be-jailed-for-similar-crimes-says-official-report-8959804.html

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:44 pm

grumpy old git wrote:ethnic back ground in england

white 86%
mixed 2.2%
Asian/asian british 7.5%
black/african/carribean 3.3
other 1%

Foreign population 13%
Foreign born prison population 13%

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:46 pm

so here we go....digi poo uses a lw paper as a siource against the home office statistics....awwwww....
This is not "stop and search etc etc etc this is convicted numptys....

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:48 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
grumpy old git wrote:ethnic back ground in england

white 86%
mixed 2.2%
Asian/asian british 7.5%
black/african/carribean 3.3
other 1%

Foreign population 13%
Foreign born prison population 13%

twister...who said which were foreign and which were not...

these stats are BRITISH NATIONAL statistics....the stats including "foreigner" is on a different graph...idiot

Moreover the point is that (scuse me for the interruption)

in 2011 77% of crime was committed by a group representing 86% of the population
BUT 10.6% of crime was committed by a group representing just 3% of the population

now why the disproportionality...are you suggesting the majority (it would have to be 2/3rd) of that group were "fitted up"????

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:49 pm

grumpy old git wrote:so here we go....digi poo uses a lw paper as a siource against the home office statistics....awwwww....
This is not "stop and search etc etc etc this is convicted numptys....

lol is that now a counter what source I use, would you have preferred if I just went straight to the source of the study instead

What I posted was convictions, oh my, someone is very upset from being exposed as a vile racist, but I always knew when you tried to poorly argue against humans being biologically one race

Exposed

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:50 pm

grumpy old git wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Foreign population 13%
Foreign born prison population 13%

twister...who said which were foreign and which were not...

these stats are BRITISH NATIONAL statistics....the stats including "foreigner" is on a different graph...idiot

Moreover the point is that

Yes but this is a thread on foreigners is it not, or have you moved the goal posts to racism instead based on ethnicity?

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:53 pm

Linking skin colour or ethnicity to criminality is a pseudoscience, which I am sure Victor can show the methodology he comes to this conclusion with scientific backing?

Maybe he will quote some proponents of scientific racism?

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:57 pm

PhilDidge wrote:Linking skin colour or ethnicity to criminality is a pseudoscience, which I am sure Victor can show the methodology he comes to this conclusion with scientific backing?

Maybe he will quote some proponents of scientific racism?

maybe you will quit being a sore looser, liar and hypocritical troll.......all of which you have exposed your self for....

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:59 pm

I'll just repost thios as it may have been missed....

Moreover the point is that (scuse me for the interruption)

in 2011 77% of crime was committed by a group representing 86% of the population
BUT 10.6% of crime was committed by a group representing just 3% of the population

now why the disproportionality...are you suggesting the majority (it would have to be 2/3rd) of that group were "fitted up"????

I cant help the figures.....they come from the home office and the ONS.....

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:59 pm

grumpy old git wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:Linking skin colour or ethnicity to criminality is a pseudoscience, which I am sure Victor can show the methodology he comes to this conclusion with scientific backing?

Maybe he will quote some proponents of scientific racism?

maybe you will quit being a sore looser , liar and hypocritical troll.......all of which you have exposed your self for....

Well we all know what you think of me that is obvious, which makes no relevance to the debate, but I think the forum is more interested in your belief in scientific racism.

So try again

Linking skin colour or ethnicity to criminality is a pseudoscience, which I am sure you can show the methodology you have arrived to come to this conclusion with scientific backing to back your view?

Maybe you will quote some proponents of scientific racism?

by ALLAKAKA Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:59 pm

ALLAKAKA wrote:Warning after sex attacker strikes five times on same street
28 Jan 2014 10:27

Police have issued an alert after the man struck in the area around Everett Road, Withington, between January 6 and January 25.

The Withington /Fallowfield area , Which is Prone to sexual assaults by ASIANS.

As there is NO ETHNICITY of this serial Sex attacker , it cannot be said that there is a Racist agenda in posting it.

Yet Didge assumes it will be an ASIAN sex attacker. Now if Didge thinks that probability is below the statistical average , then he should have every confidence that the offender will not be ASIAN or indeed any other foreigner.

So are you Didge saying that the attacker will statically NOT BE ASIAN.

A simply question even for you.

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:02 pm

grumpy old git wrote:I'll just repost thios as it may have been missed....

Moreover the point is that (scuse me for the interruption)

in 2011 77% of crime was committed by a group representing 86% of the population
BUT 10.6% of crime was committed by a group representing just 3% of the population

now why the disproportionality...are you suggesting the majority (it would have to be 2/3rd) of that group were "fitted up"????

I cant help the figures.....they come from the home office and the ONS.....

In one year, so the argument is one time era and how about the world if we are going to now have a debate on ethnicity, a fair comparison would be on every single country to show crime based upon ethnicity within each would it not, using your scientific racism to come to such an illogical view?

So do you have the details for this Victor, or are you going off the findings in only one nation where not only cultures and religions vary but also many other factors like need (caused by poverty), belief (the person believes the law is wrong), impulse (a crime which is committed on the spur of the moment), influence (alcohol, drugs or peer pressure) and gain (crime committed to gain more wealth)?

Please do take your time on this as if you are basing this absurd belief on one nation, clearly your argument is already flawed

by Ben Reilly Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:04 pm

The people at the low end of the economic ladder tend to be immigrants. The people at the low end of the economic ladder tend to have a higher crime rate. This has been generally true no matter what the country of origin for the immigrants and no matter what society they're joining.

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:05 pm

ALLAKAKA wrote:
ALLAKAKA wrote:Warning after sex attacker strikes five times on same street
28 Jan 2014 10:27

Police have issued an alert after the man struck in the area around Everett Road, Withington, between January 6 and January 25.

The Withington /Fallowfield area , Which is Prone to sexual assaults by ASIANS.

As there is NO ETHNICITY of this serial Sex attacker , it cannot be said that there is a Racist agenda in posting it.

Yet Didge assumes it will be an ASIAN sex attacker. Now if Didge thinks that probability is below the statistical average , then he should have every confidence that the offender will not be ASIAN or indeed any other foreigner.

This is just this year alone:

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More to follow

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:08 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:The people at the low end of the economic ladder tend to be immigrants. The people at the low end of the economic ladder tend to have a higher crime rate. This has been generally true no matter what the country of origin for the immigrants and no matter what society they're joining.

Exactly Ben, before in America at the beginning of the 19th century immigrants like the Irish were seen as criminals and cast as like blacks, when both were at the bottom end of the economic ladder. Arguments based this badly presented are based without any further look at what creates crime in the first place. They are based on a snap shot in just one nation, it is a poor attempt of a claim using pseudo science

by ALLAKAKA Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:11 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:The people at the low end of the economic ladder tend to be immigrants. The people at the low end of the economic ladder tend to have a higher crime rate. This has been generally true no matter what the country of origin for the immigrants and no matter what society they're joining.

UTTER BOLLOX , I grew up in a poor area and people may have been poor but they had pride , they shared and crime was frowned .

Yours is the typical limp wristed reply of the Left.

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:15 pm

ALLAKAKA wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:The people at the low end of the economic ladder tend to be immigrants. The people at the low end of the economic ladder tend to have a higher crime rate. This has been generally true no matter what the country of origin for the immigrants and no matter what society they're joining.

UTTER BOLLOX , I grew up in a poor area and people may have been poor but they had pride , they shared and crime was frowned .

Yours is the typical limp wristed reply of the Left.

Really, how is that, because rich people also commit crimes, but do you understand why people commit crimes, which is from need (caused by poverty), belief (the person believes the law is wrong), impulse (a crime which is committed on the spur of the moment), influence (alcohol, drugs or peer pressure) and gain (crime committed to gain more wealth).

So do you even understand how of these how more can be pulled or tempted into crime because of their status within society, you will see patterns of this throughout history. Great you never committed crime, but do you know others that you grew up with in poverty that did?
I certainly saw some turn to crime, even though I did not, so is this point getting through to you?

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:23 pm

i would say yes

when we consider that a disproportionately high number of immigrants would have come from third world shitholes where human life is less valuable than livestock

it stands against reason that these savages would suddenly embrace civilization, indeed the opposite would happen, they would see soft targets in the natives Brits and spurred on to greater feats of violence by police force that wont arrest them and a justice system that wont punish them

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:24 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
ALLAKAKA wrote:

As there is NO ETHNICITY of this serial Sex attacker , it cannot be said that there is a Racist agenda in posting it.

Yet Didge assumes it will be an ASIAN sex attacker. Now if Didge thinks that probability is below the statistical average , then he should have every confidence that the offender will not be ASIAN or indeed any other foreigner.

This is just this year alone:

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28/01/2014
January 2014 Anger after pervert set free from prison – despite being given potentially life-long sentence A YOUTH given a …

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Mark Chudley – Brixham
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John Mold AKA John Muir – Co Leitrim
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January 2014 Paedo sex beast who ruined girl’s life sells art online A vile paedophile is now making a living …

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Jolan Hall – Aylburton
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January 2014 Trainee primary school teacher, 22, had 1,400 indecent children pictures on computer TRAINEE primary school teacher, Jolan Hall …

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Mohammed Hussain/Shah Miah/Harris Uddin – Leeds
28/01/2014
January 2014 Takeaway staff jailed after young girls were groomed A girl of 12 was raped after she and her …

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John Worthington – Burton Fleming
28/01/2014
January 2014 ‘Simple’ man caught grooming schoolgirl for sex after meeting on Facebook A “SIMPLE” man who groomed an underage …

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Rodney Campbell – Limavady
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January 2014 Violent sex abuser is named and shamed The victim at the centre of a shocking Co Derry sex …

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Gerard O’Brien – Glasgow
27/01/2014
January 2014 Postal worker who abused two children over years is jailed A paedophile who abused two young girls has …

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Peter Jeffery – Hartlepool
27/01/2014
January 2014 Pervert faces jail for child sex offences – including making indecent movie of girl A PERVERT is facing …

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Christopher Mancini – Hurstpierpoint
24/01/2014
January 2014 Hurstpierpoint teenager jailed over sex offences Christopher Mancini 19, of Pierpoint Close, Hurstpierpoint, has been sentenced at Lewes Crown …

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David Greig – Perth
24/01/2014
January 2014 Perth sex offender ‘Dangerous Dave’ had child abuse images on USB stick A convicted sex offender who hid …

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Gavin Benit – Colwyn Bay
24/01/2014
January 2014 Paedophile jailed for hotel rape of girl, 15 A paedophile who was jailed for four years in 2008 …

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Brian Eckton/Yu – Dibden Purlieu/Southampton
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January 2014: Released and living in Shirley, Southampton December 2006: Eckton was jailed for eight and a half years, and placed on …

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Peter Kettle – Exeter
24/01/2014
January 2014 Lonely Exeter pensioner turned to child abuse images after partner’s murder A lonely pensioner who accessed child abuse …

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Paul Clifford – Lache/Chester
23/01/2014
January 2014 Lache man jailed for inciting online sex activity with a child A Chester man has been jailed for …

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Andrew Jordan – Chard
23/01/2014
January 2014 Chard man admits child abuse images charges A MAN from Chard has admitted making indecent images of children. …

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Anthony Welch – Chelmsford
23/01/2014
January 2014 Community order for pervert with 200 indecent pictures of kids on computer POLICE found child abuse images when …

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Simon Thompson – Bushey
23/01/2014
January 2014 ‘Callous’ father who strangled 11-year-old daughter to death then tried to kill himself in car crash jailed for …

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Brynmor Griffiths – Barry
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January 2014 Pensioner, 84, faces jail over child abuse images A man of 84 is facing a possible prison sentence …

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Stephen McCrossan – Maghaberry
23/01/2014
January 2014 A convicted sex offender has admitted possessing indecent images of children Stephen McCrossan, whose address was given on …

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Paul Connolly – Bradford
23/01/2014
January 2014 Bradford man jailed for sex abuse of two young girls A 56-year-old man who became obsessed with a …

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Darren Green – Oldbury
23/01/2014
January 2014 Oldbury pervert admits child abuse images A 50-year-old Oldbury man, caught with sickening indecent photographs of children, has avoided spending …

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Suleman Maknojioa – Blackburn
23/01/2014
January 2014 Blackburn religious teacher guilty of child sex offences A RELIGIOUS teacher has been found guilty of committing sexual …

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Sohail Pervez/Hassan Samad – Ashton-under-Lyne
23/01/2014
January 2014 Two men jailed after rape of girl, 15 Two ‘cowards’ preyed on a 15-year-old girl who was walking …

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Andrew Hopkinson – Skipton
23/01/2014
January 2014 Man admits sex attacks on boy A supermarket worker committed “disgusting and appalling” sex offences against a young …

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Leslie Watkins – Argoed
22/01/2014
January 2014 ‘Prolific’ Argoed paedophile jailed for 30 years A GWENT man was jailed for 30 years for carrying out …

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Eric Griffiths – West Bromwich
22/01/2014
January 2014 Pensioner, 84, jailed for child sex offences going back 60 years A Black Country pensioner has been jailed following …

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James Dunham – Eastbourne
22/01/2014
January 2014 Sex offender James Dunham absconds from Lewes Crown Court A sex offender has gone on the run after …

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Rene Le Bretton – Shepton Mallet
22/01/2014
January 2014 Shepton Mallet convicted paedophile in court after writing self-help book A CONVICTED sex offender from Shepton Mallet, who …

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Andrew Selfridge – Margate
22/01/2014
January 2014 Jail for Thanet council CCTV operator who hid thousands of abuse images and fantasised about child rape An …

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Matthew Phyall – Kemsing
22/01/2014
January 2014 Kemsing man had more than 1,000 child sex images and films but escapes jail A Kemsing man caught …

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Michal Kowilski – Bexleyheath
22/01/2014
January 2014 Jail for Bexleyheath bus masturbator who exposed himself to schoolgirl A BEXLEYHEATH sex offender who masturbated in front …

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Wilfred Batty – Dewsbury
21/01/2014
January 2014 Dewsbury pensioner had thousands of indecent images on laptop Police discovered more than 1,800 indecent images of children …

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David McKenna – Darwen
21/01/2014
January 2014 Darwen men abducted school boy TWO men have pleaded guilty to abducting a 14-year-old boy, one of whom …

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Tyler Toothill – Keighley
21/01/2014
January 2014 Community order for Oakworth man who sent girl of 11 graphic sexual messages and kissed her A 26-year-old …

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Shaun Myers – Fartown
21/01/2014
January 2014 Fartown man Shaun Myers jailed over sex offences A man has been jailed for eight years for child …

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David Phelan – Deighton
21/01/2014
January 2014 12 years for ‘compulsive and obsessional’ Deighton sex offender A Deighton man has been given an extended 12-year …

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Nigel Smith – Hilperton
21/01/2014
January 2014 Child was unaware of pregnancy after rape A man who raped a 12-year-old girl in 2003, and committed …

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Clive Ramm – Stanway
21/01/2014
January 2014 Sex offenders course for man who failed to tell new partner about child abuse images conviction A CONVICTED …

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Peter Felvus – Newarthill
21/01/2014
January 2014 Newarthill man jailed for abusing girls A Newarthill man convicted of abusing three young girls was jailed for …

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Glen Churchill – Aylesbury/Reading
20/01/2014
January 2014 Former postal worker jailed for sexual assault on five-year-old girl A former postal worker has been jailed after …

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Daniel Parmenter – Evesham
20/01/2014
January 2014 Facebook sex offender refused to co-operate, court told A convicted sex criminal who put pictures of a half-naked …

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John Roberts – Bethesda
20/01/2014
January 2014 Gwynedd teaching assistant banned from schools and social clubs after sexually touching a girl A teaching assistant who …

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Alfred Priest – Wakefield
20/01/2014
January 2014 Drunk double rapist with history of sex offences avoids jail after sex attack A DOUBLE rapist who drank …

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Glynn Battersley – Maltby
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David Page – Belfast
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Sean Devitt – Burnley
18/01/2014
January 2014 Burnley ‘groomer’ jailed for eight years A PERVERT who plied a teenager with drink and repeatedly had sex …

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Davina/David Ayrton – Fordingbridge
18/01/2014
January 2014 Community order for woman who downloaded indecent images of children A WOMAN with mental health issues who downloaded …

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Wilfred Batty – Dewsbury
18/01/2014
January 2014 Dewsbury pensioner’s 1,800 child abuse pictures – Spared jail A pensioner who stored hundreds of child abuse images …

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January 2014 MAN who groomed six teenage boys online before abusing them has been jailed for 15 years Two of …

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Mark Ferguson – Hackney
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January 2014 Sex offender who flashed 16-year-old girl on train spared jail A MAN with a history of sexual offences …

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Alan Hauxwell – Darlington
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January 2014 Darlington man left off with a suspended sentence after hoarding 12,000 images of child abuse is jailed after …

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Paul Stead – Leeds
18/01/2014
January 2014 Pervert Leeds fishing coach sent to jail A PERVERT who abused his position in charge of the junior …

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Neil Burrows – Potton
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January 2014 Paedophile is spared prison A paedophile who pleaded guilty to making 17 indecent images of children was spared …

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George Freeman – Plymstock
17/01/2014
January 2014 Plymouth man jailed for underage sex with drunk girl A 21-YEAR-OLD man who had sex with an underage …

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Guy Lawrence – Stevenage
17/01/2014
January 2014 Stevenage paedophile pleads guilty to indecent images of children and animal porn A 48-year-old man has pleaded guilty …

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Liam Culverhouse – Northampton
17/01/2014
January 2014 A former soldier has been jailed for six years over the death of his 19-month-old daughter in Northampton …

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Darius Sierp – Folkestone
17/01/2014
January 2014 Release on bail of a twisted animal and child abuse image pervert has sparked anger and astonishment Darius …

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John Woodburn – Kendal
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January 2014 Cumbria paedophile pleads guilty to child abuse, child abuse images and animal porn charges A PAEDOPHILE from Cumbria …

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More to follow

and what have you proved??

that native birts commit crimes as well??

well done

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:24 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:i would say yes

when we consider that a disproportionately high number of immigrants would have come from third world shitholes where human life is less valuable than livestock

it stands against reason that these savages would suddenly embrace civilization, indeed the opposite would happen, they would see soft targets in the natives Brits and spurred on to greater feats of violence by police force that wont arrest them and a justice system that wont punish them

Now there is a racist view of people if I ever heard one but not able to back it up with sound science, just hate it seems of people.

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:24 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
grumpy old git wrote:

priceless indeed...once more didge proves himself a two face liar
How is that, I do think it is hilarious you backed the wrong horse and shat on all your other guests at the forum, that is called Karma

a quote from a few posts up

quote didge...."yes I loved it how your site imploded, I like most of the posters there but reserved special attention for it screwing up for you."

italics my emphasis.

now I bet those mods who all jumped ship are feeling rather silly now they can see how you manipulated them.
of course they be rather cross with you if you deny manipulating them since it will then be see that they were directly involved in trying to bring down the site (though I cant see why they would want to)
How did I bring your site down when you decided to close it after some of your posters could not stop feuding with each, seriously that has to be the funniest thing I have ever heard. I have no need to go into names, but are you saying now that I made sassy do what she did? Mate people like you have no idea how to treat people with respect and hence why now we have a place where they do, most people left your place because of your inability to treat people with respect and only came back after you backed down from making your poor decisions under the poorly veiled guise of an amnesty

so Didly didge...manipulation by a devious and dishonourable troll...or willing co-operation ???
Manipulation? I missed all the fireworks and then had an email from you stating you were closing, seriously, I have never laughed so much at now, me someone not even involved in the spat is being blamed because I think it is Karma that this happened to you, Priceless

it would be interesting to know.....

Yes please tell me who I manipulated on here being as it is was your decision to close down yourself. Talk about again no respect for the guest when we all know sassy created this problem, with your poor loyalty to someone who constantly created the trouble. Now that is called someone being a liar now passing the buck to something I was never involved in, which makes it even more amusing that you did shut down, ha ha Big cry babies like you are not adult enough to run a forum

:D

Oh dear digi poo you do get your tights in a tangle dont you.....

I (that is me) didnt say YOU closed It down...I said YOU manipulated the mods into a revolt.....that didnt close it down, and, quite frankly it did little harm...but as you have ADMITED...you tried (and failed).

I have already stated why I closed it down and those (that is MORE THAN ONE) involved are more aware than anyone else, of what they did.....

YOUR admission of being involved in an attempt to bring it down is written for all to see, and as I have now multiple times proved you a liar and hypocrite, Your denial will not stand.

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:25 pm

Yes smelly I have proved within all societies people commit crime, being that some humans do commit crime

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:28 pm

grumpy old git wrote:

Oh dear digi poo you do get your tights in a tangle dont you.....

I (that is me) didnt say YOU closed It down...I said YOU manipulated the mods into a revolt.....that didnt close it down, and, quite frankly it did little harm...but as you have ADMITED...you tried (and failed).
Nope never did that either, had no contact with them and even they only told me they had left after they had done so, sorry you are mistaken on that also, they were of course angered at your actions, which you can ask for yourself, I never though manipulated any of them, they choose themselves to be angered, which you know to be true

I have already stated why I closed it down and those (that is MORE THAN ONE) involved are more aware than anyone else, of what they did.....

YOUR denial of being involved in an attempt to bring it down is written for all to see, and as I have now multiple times proved you a liar and hypocrite, It will not stand.

Yes I refute your poor accusations in fact why not ask those who did leave to say for themselves, or are you now calling them liars also. Talk about no respect for them either, as if I could manipulate intelligent people who can make their own decisions, so sorry to burst your bubble, you brought all that on yourself Victor

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:29 pm

grumpy old git wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

This belief on ethnicity to crimes has always been a pseudo science one, where it never accounts for many factors that can and do lead to crime, when you find criminals within all ethnic groups

clue less....cant argue with facts and statistics...call it pseudoscience...the world according to didge....

to didge there is only one truth.....whet HE thinks "ought" to be

... But do you see Didge's point here, grumpy?

If over 90% of jailed sex offenders are white, would it be correct to then assume that white people are "genetically predisposed" to commit sexual offences?

Or would that "reasoning" constitute shoddy and very dubious science?

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:30 pm

lovedust wrote:
grumpy old git wrote:

clue less....cant argue with facts and statistics...call it pseudoscience...the world according to didge....

to didge there is only one truth.....whet HE thinks "ought" to be

... But do you see Didge's point here, grumpy?

If over 90% of jailed sex offenders are white, would it be correct to then assume that white people are "genetically predisposed" to commit sexual offences?

Or would that "reasoning" constitute shoddy and very dubious science?

Hi Lovedust

The pseudo science only works against non-whites showing the absurdity of the logic behind such claims by those trying to promote scientific racism.

by ALLAKAKA Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:35 pm

ALLAKAKA wrote:
ALLAKAKA wrote:Warning after sex attacker strikes five times on same street
28 Jan 2014 10:27

Police have issued an alert after the man struck in the area around Everett Road, Withington, between January 6 and January 25.

The Withington /Fallowfield area , Which is Prone to sexual assaults by ASIANS.

As there is NO ETHNICITY of this serial Sex attacker , it cannot be said that there is a Racist agenda in posting it.

Yet Didge assumes it will be an ASIAN sex attacker. Now if Didge thinks that probability is below the statistical average , then he should have every confidence that the offender will not be ASIAN or indeed any other foreigner.

So are you Didge saying that the attacker will statically NOT BE ASIAN.

A simply question even for you.

Any Answer yet Didge ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

by Ben Reilly Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:36 pm

lovedust wrote:
grumpy old git wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

This belief on ethnicity to crimes has always been a pseudo science one, where it never accounts for many factors that can and do lead to crime, when you find criminals within all ethnic groups

clue less....cant argue with facts and statistics...call it pseudoscience...the world according to didge....

to didge there is only one truth.....whet HE thinks "ought" to be

... But do you see Didge's point here, grumpy?

If over 90% of jailed sex offenders are white, would it be correct to then assume that white people are "genetically predisposed" to commit sexual offences?

Or would that "reasoning" constitute shoddy and very dubious science?

Exactly. What Phil has been rightly pointing out all along, and which LD just underlined, is that of all the things you could take into consideration when studying crime trends, the very least important and the very most pseudo-scientific would be this theory that the levels of melanin in your skin influence your behavior in any way. Proposing that higher levels of melanin make you more disposed to criminal behavior is just as stupid and pseudo-scientific as proposing that higher levels make you superior, somehow.

It would be like saying you think a certain group commits more or less crime due to their eye color.

More logical, of course, would be a proposition that certain groups commit more crimes because they're from cultures where crime is tolerated more. But this doesn't hold true either. The Asian (sorry -- ASIAN) cultures these immigrants being discussed here come from are well-known to be far harsher on criminals and to deal out much harsher punishments than Western society does: http://www.rferl.org/content/pakistan-prison-sweltering-hell/25061513.html

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:38 pm

ALLAKAKA wrote:
ALLAKAKA wrote:

As there is NO ETHNICITY of this serial Sex attacker , it cannot be said that there is a Racist agenda in posting it.

Yet Didge assumes it will be an ASIAN sex attacker. Now if Didge thinks that probability is below the statistical average , then he should have every confidence that the offender will not be ASIAN or indeed any other foreigner.

So are you Didge saying that the attacker will statically NOT BE ASIAN.

A simply question even for you.

Any Answers they Didge ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Answer what, that you believe in scientific racism?

I do not assume anything on what ethnicity an attacker will be, I normally think some human has again committed a crime, so maybe you can show me your methodology for who you assume who is going to commit the next crime, based not on any pseudo science but on scientific methodology?

Take your time

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:42 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
lovedust wrote:

... But do you see Didge's point here, grumpy?

If over 90% of jailed sex offenders are white, would it be correct to then assume that white people are "genetically predisposed" to commit sexual offences?

Or would that "reasoning" constitute shoddy and very dubious science?

Exactly. What Phil has been rightly pointing out all along, and which LD just underlined, is that of all the things you could take into consideration when studying crime trends, the very least important and the very most pseudo-scientific would be this theory that the levels of melanin in your skin influence your behavior in any way. Proposing that higher levels of melanin make you more disposed to criminal behavior is just as stupid and pseudo-scientific as proposing that higher levels make you superior, somehow.

It would be like saying you think a certain group commits more or less crime due to their eye color.

More logical, of course, would be a proposition that certain groups commit more crimes because they're from cultures where crime is tolerated more. But this doesn't hold true either. The Asian (sorry -- ASIAN) cultures these immigrants being discussed here come from are well-known to be far harsher on criminals and to deal out much harsher punishments than Western society does: http://www.rferl.org/content/pakistan-prison-sweltering-hell/25061513.html

Excellent post Ben which goes back to the methodology of teaching this lesson with brown eye - blue eye to show the absurdity of racism

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:43 pm

by ALLAKAKA Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:46 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
ALLAKAKA wrote:

Any Answers they Didge ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Answer what, that you believe in scientific racism?

I do not assume anything on what ethnicity an attacker will be, I normally think some human has again committed a crime, so maybe you can show me your methodology for who you assume who is going to commit the next crime, based not on any pseudo science but on scientific methodology?

Take your time

DIDGE are saying that statically the sex attacker in that case will be unlikely to be ASIAN.

Still waiting for a YES or NO answer or are you AFRAID to commit to that.

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:46 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
lovedust wrote:

... But do you see Didge's point here, grumpy?

If over 90% of jailed sex offenders are white, would it be correct to then assume that white people are "genetically predisposed" to commit sexual offences?

Or would that "reasoning" constitute shoddy and very dubious science?

Exactly. What Phil has been rightly pointing out all along, and which LD just underlined, is that of all the things you could take into consideration when studying crime trends, the very least important and the very most pseudo-scientific would be this theory that the levels of melanin in your skin influence your behavior in any way. Proposing that higher levels of melanin make you more disposed to criminal behavior is just as stupid and pseudo-scientific as proposing that higher levels make you superior, somehow.

It would be like saying you think a certain group commits more or less crime due to their eye color.

More logical, of course, would be a proposition that certain groups commit more crimes because they're from cultures where crime is tolerated more. But this doesn't hold true either. The Asian (sorry -- ASIAN) cultures these immigrants being discussed here come from are well-known to be far harsher on criminals and to deal out much harsher punishments than Western society does: http://www.rferl.org/content/pakistan-prison-sweltering-hell/25061513.html

Hey...dont shoot me...i just quoted bare figures.....make of em what you will....I havnt...anywhere......... made any statement equating anything with anything....

you see heres the problem....

all I did was post the figures asked for...unadulterated and raw

and digi poo immediately becomes nasty and accused me of being a racist BNP supporter because those figures require intelligence to make rational sense of.

also if 90% of sex attacks are carried out by a group representing 86% of the population (which is whats being claimed here ...I dont have the actual figures to hand)

then we need to know what % are being carried out by the other ethinc groups seperately to draw a proper conclusion...by your own logic the simple statement that 90% are carried out by the 86% group is meaningless

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:49 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:i would say yes

when we consider that a disproportionately high number of immigrants would have come from third world shitholes where human life is less valuable than livestock

it stands against reason that these savages would suddenly embrace civilization, indeed the opposite would happen, they would see soft targets in the natives Brits and spurred on to greater feats of violence by police force that wont arrest them and a justice system that wont punish them

Now there is a racist view of people if I ever heard one but not able to back it up with sound science, just hate it seems of people.

how is that racist??

are you saying that all foreigners are non whites??

that in itself would be racist

so you are faced with two choices

admit that you thought all immigrants are non white and thus YOU are the racist

or

apologize

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:49 pm

grumpy old git wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

Exactly. What Phil has been rightly pointing out all along, and which LD just underlined, is that of all the things you could take into consideration when studying crime trends, the very least important and the very most pseudo-scientific would be this theory that the levels of melanin in your skin influence your behavior in any way. Proposing that higher levels of melanin make you more disposed to criminal behavior is just as stupid and pseudo-scientific as proposing that higher levels make you superior, somehow.

It would be like saying you think a certain group commits more or less crime due to their eye color.

More logical, of course, would be a proposition that certain groups commit more crimes because they're from cultures where crime is tolerated more. But this doesn't hold true either. The Asian (sorry -- ASIAN) cultures these immigrants being discussed here come from are well-known to be far harsher on criminals and to deal out much harsher punishments than Western society does: http://www.rferl.org/content/pakistan-prison-sweltering-hell/25061513.html

Hey...dont shoot me...i just quoted bare figures.....make of em what you will....I havnt...anywhere......... made any statement equating anything with anything....

you see heres the problem....

all I did was post the figures asked for...unadulterated and raw

and digi poo immediately becomes nasty and accused me of being a racist BNP supporter because those figures require intelligence to make rational sense of.

also if 90% of sex attacks are carried out by a group representing 86% of the population (which is whats being claimed here ...I dont have the actual figures to hand)

then we need to know what % are being carried out by the other ethinc groups seperately to draw a proper conclusion...by your own logic the simple statement that 90% are carried out by the 86% group is meaningless

No you used there argument, here read for yourself:

http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/national/which-races-commit-most-crime

So your argument is now on many different white ethnic groups, but not so for Asian or black then by that point, by saying other ethnic groups, when all you posted was white, Asian, black, mixed ect, seems now you are making more pseudo science as you go along when the stats do not go in your favour

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

Sassy wrote:Oh FTL and Nems have been practicing really hard and are masters of the art now.

Is It Mainly Immigrants Who Kill People In The UK Now? - Page 3 Drama10

....and here you go again, dragging me into your bitchfest. I've asked you nicely several times to leave me alone. What happened on Speakfree is in the past and for the record I resigned as Mod and left the forum because of YOU and ONLY YOU. It doesn't seem to matter how many times I tell you, you seem to think you know what I think better than I do Rolling Eyes

Now again, please leave me alone and get on with your life.

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:54 pm

PhilDidge wrote:

Bloody brilliant teacher

by ALLAKAKA Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:55 pm

grumpy old git wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

Exactly. What Phil has been rightly pointing out all along, and which LD just underlined, is that of all the things you could take into consideration when studying crime trends, the very least important and the very most pseudo-scientific would be this theory that the levels of melanin in your skin influence your behavior in any way. Proposing that higher levels of melanin make you more disposed to criminal behavior is just as stupid and pseudo-scientific as proposing that higher levels make you superior, somehow.

It would be like saying you think a certain group commits more or less crime due to their eye color.

More logical, of course, would be a proposition that certain groups commit more crimes because they're from cultures where crime is tolerated more. But this doesn't hold true either. The Asian (sorry -- ASIAN) cultures these immigrants being discussed here come from are well-known to be far harsher on criminals and to deal out much harsher punishments than Western society does: http://www.rferl.org/content/pakistan-prison-sweltering-hell/25061513.html

Hey...dont shoot me...i just quoted bare figures.....make of em what you will....I havnt...anywhere......... made any statement equating anything with anything....

you see heres the problem....

all I did was post the figures asked for...unadulterated and raw

and digi poo immediately becomes nasty and accused me of being a racist BNP supporter because those figures require intelligence to make rational sense of.

also if 90% of sex attacks are carried out by a group representing 86% of the population (which is whats being claimed here ...I dont have the actual figures to hand)

then we need to know what % are being carried out by the other ethinc groups seperately to draw a proper conclusion...by your own logic the simple statement that 90% are carried out by the 86% group is meaningless

The Accusations of being a BNP / EDL member or indeed a member of some Extreme right wing group is their only answer.

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:57 pm

ALLAKAKA wrote:

The Accusations of being a BNP / EDL member or indeed a member of some Extreme right wing group is their only answer.

No its just stating facts about how the BNP argue using pseudo science of which as seen you are using the same argument as is Victor, so why are all 3 of you using the same argument here?

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:58 pm

Korben Dallas wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:
Bloody brilliant teacher

Agreed Korben, never get tired of watching her videos either, some of the more recent are even better

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:59 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
ALLAKAKA wrote:

The Accusations of being a BNP / EDL member or indeed a member of some Extreme right wing group is their only answer.

No its just stating facts about how the BNP argue using pseudo science of which as seen you are using the same argument as is Victor, so why are all 3 of you using the same argument here?

probably because it makes sense

why are you the only one not getting it??

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:00 pm

Statistics are great
did you know 99 % of humans are killed by 99% of humans

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:01 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

No its just stating facts about how the BNP argue using pseudo science of which as seen you are using the same argument as is Victor, so why are all 3 of you using the same argument here?

probably because it makes sense

why are you the only one not getting it??

Actually your pseudo science makes no sense, because you fail to understand what cause crimes, as Ben rightly said your view is that the levels of melanin in your skin influence your behavior in any way, which is absurd.

It seems you do not understand biology smelly

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:02 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Sassy wrote:

I realise that Victor, but I was on the receiving end of all of their bile, so I have an interest in it all coming out. But I'll leave the rest to you, because you have certainly done a good job in exposing it.

Exposing what, that now where I was not involved, you are claiming I manipulated the others, one moment

://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/:

You were the guilty one, in factask any on there if I had anything to do with your melt down?

Please do, hilarious I am now being blamed for you posting details about posters, you really cannot make it up how badly guilty you are to now blame me when I was never involved.

Please some more of Victor being a paranoid loon this is priceless

@Didge

I never posted any personal details, Quill is the one that did that.

@FTL

I suggest you read back and see where Victor got the truth out of Didge, where he establishes that Didge manipulated you lot to stop being Mods.

Re the previous bitchfest you and Nems and Didge directed at me then don't get dragged in like you did by your friend. I ignored three posts directed at me and they were not witty by any means. You then piped up by saying ...

The logic is equivalent to "it's all about me me me" and "look at me me me". The reason for the protest fades into the background because it's more about the protesters than the cause

Sorry Irn, I wasn't referring to Margaretta tbh

To be honest Irn this thread has descended into "I've protested for the cause", "I'm a better protester and more committed than you" and "You are weak willed and never protested against anything which makes you a bad person"

More about the protester and little about the cause itself

Some people will use anything to try and win an online argument

These were all directed at me by you. And the first mention you got was from your friend who said...

It was only to get at me Didge, Im sorry you got caught up in it.

You're friend then posted...

Its as FTL correctly states some will do anything because winning an online argument is everything

I've gone back and amended my post to say 'your friend' instead of FTL so that you don't get so upset in future and you are unable to play the victim card when clearly you were actively involved in the discussion.

I will add, my illness was brought up because Nems deliberately targeted something she knew I couldn't do at the moment to provoke and Didge commented it was witty. Being the 'little miss, look at me, aren't I a sweet, look at all the emoticons I post, I must be lovely' when in fact the two of you are schoolyard schoolgirl bullybitches, you jumped on it. Well, I might be down at the moment, but I'm not out, and you start on me and I will get up, chew you up and spit out the pieces. Others might be fooled by you, I know how manipulative you are and spiteful to the nth degree. You try to portray yourself as this wouldn't hurt a fly, girly, oh so cute, fluffy toy figure. But that isn't the truth is it? The real FTL is quite happy to get together a gang to persue someone who was a friend, because they had the audacity to say they were not going to do what you wanted them to do, dared to disagree, so for months and months you manipulate others to carry on your spiteful vendetta, never minding who it hurts. It's not me who is the manipulator, I come straight out with what I think and people know where I stand on everything. You, little miss smarmy, put on one face while doing another and throw your hands up in horror when anyone bites back. Well tough, because I know you, and I know what you are, a manipulative, devious, two faced bitch.

by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:06 pm

Oh grow up sassy, victor exposed nothing, he like you are both guilty of the problems that happened, you only have yourselves to blame on that so stop dragging others into what you both created.

So its bad of me to laugh at what happen, big deal, that does not mean I had any involvement, all I see is two guilty people being you and Victor trying to blame others for your own mistakes!

I am sorry you are ill, but don;t push that onto all of us, as none of us want you to be ill.

You are just being childish now and you keep dragging FTL into so many things she is not involved in, that is called being bitter when she has done no wrong, so if you wish to bitch and moan, do so at me, and happy to take on anything thrown at me, but leave FTL alone

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