Delivery man tells young boy to stop dressing as a fairy.

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:09 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-furious-after-son-wearing-8975210?ICID=FB_mirror_main

"Wendy, who also has a two-year-old daughter, Felicity, said she couldn't believe her ears.
She said: "If he had said it's unusual to be a fairy, we wouldn't have have thought too much of it but saying someone should take Isaac to one side implies he was doing something wrong.
"I feel disappointed that there are still people in this world that ask questions like that and and think it is their right to tell other people what they can and cannot wear.
"My son has been more reluctant to wear his fairy dress since, he has only worn it once or twice whereas he used to wear it all the time."

Obviously the delivery driver should have minded his own business, but should a 4 year old boy be encouraged to dress up as a fairy?

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:17 pm

He can dress up as he likes! And the delivery man should keep his nose out of people's business and deliver his parcels quietly.

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:21 pm

Well I agree the delivery man should have kept his nose out, but I cant help thnking if I was the mum of that little boy I might steer him away from the fairy dress and encourage the more laddish outfits.
At 4 years old it can be confusing for a child if gender differences are not made clear.

She says he has been reluctant to wear the fairy dress since....I would be happy about that.

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:36 pm

I don't know about that. My daughter wanted to dress up as Spider-Man for a princess party when she was three so I let her. She probably wouldn't choose it now as she's into girly dresses - she never stays looking girly I might add, she's a beautiful scruffy chaotic kid and always ends up hair flying everywhere - but she still chooses princesses over Spider-Man these days.
Having said that, she did ask to go to a Halloween party that's coming up, as shaggy from scooby doo..... so..?

by Major Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:39 pm

Sounds like a load of 'who shot John' to me.

What sort of mother would LET a boy dress as a fairy?

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:43 pm

Major wrote:Sounds like a load of 'who shot John' to me.

What sort of mother would LET a boy dress as a fairy?

A mother who is pretty easy about a four year old wanting to dress up? Four year olds are funny creatures, today they only want to drink out of the Minnie Mouse cup but tomorrow they will cry if you give them the Minnie Mouse cup instead of the Princess Tiana one. It means nothing.

My tactic for getting my children to do what I actually want whilst making it look like it's their decision, is to offer them two choices of my choosing, so I don't mind which they choose.

And really, what's the harm? Peter Pan was cool and he had wings.

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:47 pm

eddie wrote:I don't know about that. My daughter wanted to dress up as Spider-Man for a princess party when she was three so I let her. She probably wouldn't choose it now as she's into girly dresses - she never stays looking girly I might add, she's a beautiful scruffy chaotic kid and always ends up hair flying everywhere - but she still chooses princesses over Spider-Man these days.
Having said that, she did ask to go to a Halloween party that's coming up, as shaggy from scooby doo..... so..?

Having a play about is one thing, but it seemed he often made a beeline for the fairy outfit even though there were other outfits he would wear too.
I would have encouraged the fireman and ignored the fairy......I wonder if she isn't one of these mothers who actively encourages the child to 'express himself'...more for her liberation than his. It's not hard to encourage a child without actively making him aware his choice isn't really suitable.

He is 4...old enough for other kids to note his choice of outfits and comment , I just think at that age it's best to encourage conformity, plenty time later to let him choose his sexual orientation.

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:48 pm

Major wrote:Sounds like a load of 'who shot John' to me.

What sort of mother would LET a boy dress as a fairy?

What do you think of the delivery mans comment though? I would have been fuming.

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:52 pm

eddie wrote:
Major wrote:Sounds like a load of 'who shot John' to me.

What sort of mother would LET a boy dress as a fairy?

A mother who is pretty easy about a four year old wanting to dress up? Four year olds are funny creatures, today they only want to drink out of the Minnie Mouse cup but tomorrow they will cry if you give them the Minnie Mouse cup instead of the Princess Tiana one. It means nothing.

My tactic for getting my children to do what I actually want whilst making it look like it's their decision, is to offer them two choices of my choosing, so I don't mind which they choose.

And really, what's the harm? Peter Pan was cool and he had wings.

I did the choice thing too....it works because the child makes the decision without realising how you have narrowed it down. Laughing

I would say to this lad....OK, do you want to be a fireman or a Dr today......if he insisted on the fairy outfit I would let him but not give much attention, and kids love attention.

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:11 pm

If he keeps choosing the fairy outfit then that's what he chooses. Why must he NOT wear it in case other kids laugh?
And actually, after having worked in a foundation class for years, kids this age don't actually notice what another kid dresses as. Children this age take life in their stride and they don't really judge.

by Major Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:23 pm

IMHO 4 years olds should not be given a choice on how to dress up, responsible straight parents should decide such matters for their appropriate visible sexed children, babies, yes, they are still babies at that age..

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:26 pm

Major wrote:IMHO 4 years olds should not be given a choice on how to dress up, responsible straight parents should decide such matters for their appropriate visible sexed children, babies, yes, they are still babies at that age..

"Responsible straight parents". That says it all really. This isn't about sexuality! Children of this age aren't yet really aware of the real differences between the sexes - only what's pointed out to them by adults.
Why are you making this about sexuality? It's a child dressing up!

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:36 pm

eddie wrote:If he keeps choosing the fairy outfit then that's what he chooses. Why must he NOT wear it in case other kids laugh?
And actually, after having worked in a foundation class for years, kids this age don't actually notice what another kid dresses as. Children this age take life in their stride and they don't really judge.

In my experience Kids do notice if a boy is dressed as a girl Eddie, though if your experience is different I respect that obviously.
Kids need to fit in with their peers, plenty time later to show individuality, I think pre school and early school days it makes life hard for children if they are the odd one out.

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:44 pm

Syl I can promise you I've worked with this age of children on and off consistently over the last ten years or so, in schools and when I ran a mother and toddler group, and plenty of young boys played with prams and dolls.
What happens is, a boy is born, for example, so he is bought boy's toys and shown boy's TV programmes, so he becomes what he's shown. Same with girls. We all do it and there's nothing wrong. But the first thing you learn when working with children nowadays is let them be. Just let them choose and don't put them in boxes.

I think it's the parents and other adults who have the problem. It's only make-believe and I dont see the harm.

by HoratioTarr Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:47 pm

Syl wrote:Well I agree the delivery man should have kept his nose out, but I cant help thnking if I was the mum of that little boy I might steer him away from the fairy dress and encourage the more laddish outfits.
At 4 years old it can be confusing for a child if gender differences are not made clear.

She says he has been reluctant to wear the fairy dress since....I would be happy about that.

Perhaps he's gay. Being gay isn't something you suddenly 'get' at puberty.

by HoratioTarr Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:49 pm

eddie wrote:I don't know about that. My daughter wanted to dress up as Spider-Man for a princess party when she was three so I let her. She probably wouldn't choose it now as she's into girly dresses - she never stays looking girly I might add, she's a beautiful scruffy chaotic kid and always ends up hair flying everywhere - but she still chooses princesses over Spider-Man these days.
Having said that, she did ask to go to a Halloween party that's coming up, as shaggy from scooby doo..... so..?

I was never one for dolls as a kid, and much preferred reading Superman comics to the Bunty. I didn't want to dress in boy's clothes though. My bro is gay. He loved dressing up in floaty shit as a kid.

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:58 pm

eddie wrote:Syl I can promise you I've worked with this age of children on and off consistently over the last ten years or so, in schools and when I ran a mother and toddler group, and plenty of young boys played with prams and dolls.
What happens is, a boy is born, for example, so he is bought boy's toys and shown boy's TV programmes, so he becomes what he's shown. Same with girls. We all do it and there's nothing wrong. But the first thing you learn when working with children nowadays is let them be. Just let them choose and don't put them in boxes.

I think it's the parents and other adults who have the problem. It's only make-believe and I dont see the harm.

I don't have your experiences Eddie and I get what you are saying.
I have helped out at play groups in the past and at my sons nursery ( though that was ages ago but kids are kids and they don't change really) I have seen little ones ask why a little boy has chosen a dress out of the play box....never the other way round, little girls can be whoever they want without other children batting an eye.

I think the harm comes from a child being teased by other kids, and ultimately confused if he has no gender guide lines, I don't for one minute think it can have a long term effect one way or the other.

Just to digress, what do you think of Jolie/Pitts little one insisting and being allowed to dress full time as a boy and wants to be a boy?

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:58 pm

I just hate putting people into boxes and yet I possibly do it myself with my children. As I said, my daughter wanted to go to a princess party as Spider-Man somshe did. At a Frozen-themed party, whilst all other girls were Elsa and Ana, my daughter went as the snowman. She makes me laugh.

I try to just let her be, as she's very individual and knows her own little mind tbh.

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:00 pm

Syl I think Jolie/Pitt have done a great job at allowing her to decide to dress how she wants - if she feels 'male' then that's her choice.

I'd do exactly the same.

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:01 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:Well I agree the delivery man should have kept his nose out, but I cant help thnking if I was the mum of that little boy I might steer him away from the fairy dress and encourage the more laddish outfits.
At 4 years old it can be confusing for a child if gender differences are not made clear.

She says he has been reluctant to wear the fairy dress since....I would be happy about that.

Perhaps he's gay. Being gay isn't something you suddenly 'get' at puberty.

At 4 he is unlikely to know whether he is gay or not ....and don't most gay men dress in male clothes anyway? Laughing

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:03 pm

I think some children could know at four, in some weird abstract way. Some gay men I know, told me that they "always knew" on some level.

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:04 pm

eddie wrote:Syl I think Jolie/Pitt have done a great job at allowing her to decide to dress how she wants - if she feels 'male' then that's her choice.

I'd do exactly the same.

Would you? I don't think I would...certainly not from the age of 2...or 3 or 4 either.
It's been widely reported that they have seen gender specialists about her, confusion springs to my mind.

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:07 pm

eddie wrote:I think some children could know at four, in some weird abstract way. Some gay men I know, told me that they "always knew" on some level.

It's interesting, and I think it's true that when some gay or transsexual people look back at their childhood they do say they knew from an early age they were different..

But that's in hindsight, I'm sure when they were very young they had no idea what they were feeling were sexual preferences.

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:09 pm

Okay so I'm going to go on experience here.

Where I used to live I knew a woman called Louise. She had a daughter and that girl, from the age of three used to say she hated knickers and wanted to wear "boy's pants". Louise used to try and dissuade her but the little girl insisted. It went on all the time. The girl wanted to wear football kits in summer (no she's didn't have any older boy siblings to copy) and she acted and spoke like a boy.
Louise often confided in me and I told her to speak to the school and the teachers etc and to go with her instinct as the child's mum.

That girl is 12 now. She still wants to be a boy.
I always feel so sorry for people who feel they've been born into the wrong body.

The novel "Well of Lonliness" explains inverts really well.

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:14 pm

eddie wrote:Okay so I'm going to go on experience here.

Where I used to live I knew a woman called Louise. She had a daughter and that girl, from the age of three used to say she hated knickers and wanted to wear "boy's pants". Louise used to try and dissuade her but the little girl insisted. It went on all the time. The girl wanted to wear football kits in summer (no she's didn't have any older boy siblings to copy) and she acted and spoke like a boy.
Louise often confided in me and I told her to speak to the school and the teachers etc and to go with her instinct as the child's mum.

That girl is 12 now. She still wants to be a boy.
I always feel so sorry for people who feel they've been born into the wrong body.

The novel "Well of Lonliness" explains inverts really well.

Maybe she will be a boy/man when she is old enough to make the decision and mature enough to have treatment and surgery if that's the road she will travel..
On the other hand she could change drastically if and when she first has feelings for a boy....12 years old is still very young.

I don't have any experience in knowing anyone like this but I can empathise for kids and parents when a child truly KNOWS she/he has been born into the wrong gender.

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:21 pm

I agree. I do know her mum had an issue when she started senior school because the uniform was skirts for girls and trousers for boys and the girl refused to wear the skirts.

Actually best leave the uniform debate there. Ben has a strange liking for talking about socks.

by Original Quill Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:24 pm

Syl wrote:
eddie wrote:Okay so I'm going to go on experience here.

Where I used to live I knew a woman called Louise. She had a daughter and that girl, from the age of three used to say she hated knickers and wanted to wear "boy's pants". Louise used to try and dissuade her but the little girl insisted. It went on all the time. The girl wanted to wear football kits in summer (no she's didn't have any older boy siblings to copy) and she acted and spoke like a boy.
Louise often confided in me and I told her to speak to the school and the teachers etc and to go with her instinct as the child's mum.

That girl is 12 now. She still wants to be a boy.
I always feel so sorry for people who feel they've been born into the wrong body.

The novel "Well of Lonliness" explains inverts really well.

Maybe she will be a boy/man when she is old enough to make the decision and mature enough to have treatment and surgery if that's the road she will travel..
On the other hand she could change drastically if and when she first has feelings for a boy....12 years old is still very young.

I don't have any experience in knowing anyone like this but I can empathise for kids and parents when a child truly KNOWS she/he has been born into the wrong gender.

Do they have surgery that goes that way? A big toe off the left foot, perhaps? scratch

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:29 pm

I definitely think there are exceptions....I do believe some very young people KNOW they are in the wrong body. Simply ignoring that would be wrong.

I do believe though that kids need guidance, and allowing a little lad to always dress in fairy clothes is not giving him the guidance he needs, not because it will change in any way his sexuality, but because he will stick out like a sore thumb when he starts school and doesn't realise that boys dress one way and girls another.

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:31 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

Maybe she will be a boy/man when she is old enough to make the decision and mature enough to have treatment and surgery if that's the road she will travel..
On the other hand she could change drastically if and when she first has feelings for a boy....12 years old is still very young.

I don't have any experience in knowing anyone like this but I can empathise for kids and parents when a child truly KNOWS she/he has been born into the wrong gender.

Do they have surgery that goes that way? A big toe off the left foot, perhaps?

Surgery is very advanced now Quill....cross your fingers that one day even brain transplants will be available. Razz

by Original Quill Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:33 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Do they have surgery that goes that way? A big toe off the left foot, perhaps?

Surgery is very advanced now Quill....cross your fingers that one day even brain transplants will be available.

Yes, I read where a guy in Russia was having a head transplant. My immediate thought was, necessity is the mother of invention! Twisted Evil

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:40 pm

Syl wrote:I definitely think there are exceptions....I do believe some very young people KNOW they are in the wrong body. Simply ignoring that would be wrong.

I do believe though that kids need guidance, and allowing a little lad to always dress in fairy clothes is not giving him the guidance he needs, not because it will change in any way his sexuality, but because he will stick out like a sore thumb when he starts school and doesn't realise that boys dress one way and girls another.

No he won't! He will get to a stage where he simply doesn't like fairy dresses anymore as well as mashed potatao, and he will stop eating the mash and wearing the dresses for no apparent reason cos that's what toddlers do.
And if he doesn't and he gets bullied, then that's the bully's problem. Even if opts out of wearing girl's clothes he will still eventually be outed for being "different". You can't stop what's going to happen if you have a person that stands out in a society of judgemental people.

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:04 pm

eddie wrote:
Syl wrote:I definitely think there are exceptions....I do believe some very young people KNOW they are in the wrong body. Simply ignoring that would be wrong.

I do believe though that kids need guidance, and allowing a little lad to always dress in fairy clothes is not giving him the guidance he needs, not because it will change in any way his sexuality, but because he will stick out like a sore thumb when he starts school and doesn't realise that boys dress one way and girls another.

No he won't! He will get to a stage where he simply doesn't like fairy dresses anymore as well as mashed potatao, and he will stop eating the mash and wearing the dresses for no apparent reason cos that's what toddlers do.
And if he doesn't and he gets bullied, then that's the bully's problem. Even if opts out of wearing girl's clothes he will still eventually be outed for being "different". You can't stop what's going to happen if you have a person that stands out in a society of judgemental people.

I agree bullying is always the bullies problem, but I don't think this is about bullying it's about parenting.

I have a feeling this is one we wont agree on Eddie, it's interesting to see opposing views on subjects like this though.

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:12 pm

No we won't agree. But I'm still right but I'll let you off cos you're pretty.

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:15 pm

eddie wrote:No we won't agree. But I'm still right but I'll let you off cos you're pretty.

I don't think you're right....not wrong either, just disagreeing...and thanks. Cool

by Victorismyhero Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:16 pm

maybe we should start telling Muslim women to stop dressing up as umbrella covers???

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:19 pm

Lord Foul wrote:maybe we should start telling Muslim women to stop dressing up as umbrella covers???

But if they chose to dress like that as youngsters and we stopped them would we be dampening their creativity? Razz

by Victorismyhero Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:25 pm

Possibly, but te point keeps being made that we have no right to dictate how someone dresses Delivery man tells young boy to stop dressing as a fairy. 2190311264

Delivery man tells young boy to stop dressing as a fairy. 2190311264

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:26 pm

Well we don't.

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:28 pm

Lord Foul wrote:Possibly, but te point keeps being made that we have no right to dictate how someone dresses

More advise than dictate......but in any case children and adults are different.
Adults should be able to wear what they want as long as long as it's within the law surely.

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:29 pm

No one stops vic from wearing his long white robe with only a rabbits foot underneath to keep him warm.

by Syl Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:33 pm

Does that not tickle? Razz

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:38 pm

Syl wrote:Does that not tickle?

I would think so, but only in a really good way.

by Victorismyhero Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:46 pm

ask FTL... #ticklemypickle

by HoratioTarr Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:51 pm

eddie wrote:No one stops vic from wearing his long white robe with only a rabbits foot underneath to keep him warm.

What would you know about his rabbit's foot?

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:53 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
eddie wrote:No one stops vic from wearing his long white robe with only a rabbits foot underneath to keep him warm.

What would you know about his rabbit's foot?

He brags. It's why I don't eat meat.

by HoratioTarr Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:54 pm

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Perhaps he's gay. Being gay isn't something you suddenly 'get' at puberty.

At 4 he is unlikely to know whether he is gay or not ....and don't most gay men dress in male clothes anyway?

Of course he didn't know he was gay. What child knows their sexuality at that age? My point is, at a very early age, he showed feminine preferences for dress and behaviour. My two other brothers would stomp around in wellies and pretendy workman gear with their Tonka trucks, but the gay one preferred doing what a girl would do.

by HoratioTarr Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:55 pm

eddie wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

What would you know about his rabbit's foot?

He brags. It's why I don't eat meat.

I knew someone once who thought Fellatio was a pizza topping.

by HoratioTarr Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:57 pm

Syl wrote:Does that not tickle?

I really can't imagine what it must be like to have a meat and two veg dangling down there. How distracting! I'd be forever hoicking it out of the way and interfering with myself. Just like a real man, I guess. lol!

by eddie Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:03 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:Does that not tickle?

I really can't imagine what it must be like to have a meat and two veg dangling down there. How distracting! I'd be forever hoicking it out of the way and interfering with myself. Just like a real man, I guess.

I'd never get out of bed.
And what a fun thing to fiddle with when you're bored! Like one of those squeezy things you buy for stress relief.

by veya_victaous Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:57 am

Eddie is right.
it is an old people problem not the kids

even my generation has far less issues with it than the previous...

Yep, the Bad Old days are on the way out. Smile

by Sponsored content