More than 11,000 Icelanders offer to house Syrian refugees to help European crisis

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WARNING; THIS THREAD CONTAINS PICTURES WHICH SOME MAY FIND UPSETTING.


More than 11,000 families in Iceland have offered to open their homes to Syrian refugees in a bid to raise the government’s cap of just 50 asylum seekers a year.

They responded to a call by author Bryndis Bjorgvinsdottir, who set up a Facebook group with an open letter to the country’s welfare minister, Eygló Harðardóttir, asking her to allow people to help.
Ms Bjorgvinsdottir said she knew someone who could house five Syrians fleeing the country’s brutal civil war, requesting work permits, residence papers and “basic human rights” in exchange for paying for their flight and helping them integrate into national society.   Hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees have been crossing into Turkey and attempting to make their way to Europe
In the letter, she said she started the group to show the level of public support for welcoming more refugees, who Ms Bjorgvinsdottir called “human resources” with experience and skills that could help all Icelanders.
“They are our future spouses, best friends, the next soul mate, a drummer for our children’s band, the next colleague, Miss Iceland in 2022, the carpenter who finally finishes the bathroom, the cook in the cafeteria, a fireman and television host,” she wrote.
“People of whom we'll never be able to say in the future: ‘Your life is worth less than my life.’”

Referring to the thousands of migrants who have drowned in desperate attempts to cross the Mediterranean, Ms Bjorgvinsdottir urged Iceland to “open the gates”.

More than 11,000 people have so far joined the group, writing their own proposals in thousands of comments below.

“I'm a single mother with a six-year-old son...we can take a child in need. I'm a teacher and would teach the child to speak, read and write Icelandic and adjust to Icelandic society. We have clothes, a bed, toys and everything a child needs,” wrote Hekla Stefansdottir, according to a translation by AFP.
As the outpouring of support continues, the Prime Minister has announced the formation of a committee dedicated to re-assessing the number of asylum seekers Iceland will accept.   Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson said Europe's migration crisis was 'one of the greatest challenges of modern times'
The Reykjavik Grapevine reported that in a radio interview on Monday, Sigmundur Davíð Gunnlaugsson said that Iceland must take part in efforts to welcome the influx of migrants reaching Europe, which he called “one of the greatest challenges of modern times”.
Meanwhile, the welfare minister, Ms Harðardóttir, told national broadcaster RUV that authorities were reading the Facebook offers and would consider increasing the number of refugees accepted under a quota.
Iceland, which has a population of little over 330,000, welcomed 1,117 immigrants in 2014, according to government figures.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/more-than-11000-icelanders-offer-to-house-syrian-refugees-to-help-european-crisis-10480505.html

WOW, they jailed the bankers, refused austerity and now have a sound growing economy and the people want to help the refugess.   Flippin wonderful.

You obviously like saying that Nicko, it's twice you have posted it.  The world quite rightly ended up condemning things down in Vietnam.  I know, I was in Singapore and helped write the history of the New Zealand Air Force in Singapore and protested in London, and watched the world become appalled at the atrocities committed there.  Sounds like you were one of the people committing them.

nicko wrote:Saw this for real in Vietnam,   American copter fired rockets at VC boat on Mekong river,
then machine gunned survivors in the water.  We all cheered.    

Gd job, nicko.  Now you want the same for the middle east? Get a used car salesman...you're gonna need it.

That little girl changed people's perception of Vietnam, Aylan Kurdi, although not by a long way the first Syrian child to drown, has changed people's perceptions of the Syrian refugee crisis.

We had just left a small village where the VC had just beheaded the village elder, his Wife and his two children for just talking to us. So bollocks to you lefty idiots.you'v never seen up close what these savages did. One of our Squad was captured when wounded
, they cut off his privates stuffed them in his mouth and nailed him to a tree.
And you look down on me for cheering. The vicious little bastards deserved all they got.

you were not there, you have no fcuking idea what it was like.

I have a very good idea what it was like, I heard first hand from the NZ boys as they came back, they gave their evidence to me.  The fact that you are still proud of it, after this time and being able to realise what went on with BOTH sides says a lot.

SO you were actually in the jungle sweating like a pig with the humidity, being bitten by insects, being shot at,lying in the mud pissing your self with fear. You were a very brave lady.

WARNING: GRAPHIC PICTURES



I have no doubt you had a terrible time, you all did, but time has shown that we should not have been there and that atrocities were committed by all.  In fact the Vietnamese people are still living with the consquences of napalm and agent orange in their country.  The fact that you can still look back with pleasure at killing people, I find disgusting.  I had to step over dead bodies to get to work while the trouble with Indonesia was going on in Singapore and had bombs planted in the sea wall next to the block of flats I lived in, and watched from a balcony as a bomb went off down the road as the bomb squad were trying to dismantle it.  I've seen death in many forms and I would never cheer that it happened to anyone.

Vietnamese are still crippled by the effects of Agent Orange, a chemical sprayed during combat, stripping leaves off trees to remove enemy cover.
Its contaminant, dioxin — now regarded as one of the most toxic chemicals known to man — remains in Vietnam’s ecosystem, in the soil and in the fish people eat from rivers.
Nearly 4.8 million Vietnamese people have been exposed, causing 400,000 deaths; the associated illnesses include cancers, birth defects, skin disorders, auto-immune diseases, liver disorders, psychosocial effects, neurological defects and gastrointestinal diseases.
According to the Red Cross of Vietnam, up to one million people are currently disabled or have health problems due to Agent Orange, 100,000 of which are children.
In Ho Chi Minh City’s Go Vap orphanage, five-month-old Hong gazes serenely from her metal-barred cot, empty, save for a soft yellow teddy bear watching over her.
From her head grows a huge veiny mass — a rare neural tube defect known as encephalocele, which research suggests could be caused by Agent Orange exposure.
Without successful surgery, Hong’s future is bleak. She could suffer from paralysis of the limbs, vision impairment, mental disability and seizures.


In the capital’s Tu Du Hospital, within the Children’s Agent Orange ward lives 13-year-old Tran, with Fraser Syndrome. A rare genetic disorder, it’s characterised by completely fused eyelids, partially webbed fingers and toes and genital malformations. Tran’s nurses explain how he spends hours each day crying out relentlessly, rocking himself back and forth in his cot.

Named Agent Orange after the coloured stripe on the barrels it was stored in, the US Army, supporting the South Vietnamese, spent a decade from 1961, spraying approximately 80 million litres over 30,000 square miles of southern Vietnam. The aim was to “smoke out” and weaken the Viet Cong enemy of the north, by decreasing their food supplies.
Studies have shown that dioxin still remains at alarmingly high concentrations in soil, food, human blood and breast milk in people who live near former US military bases.


But it’s not just families in Vietnam that are affected. Here in Australia, where almost 60,000 troops served in the war, a growing number of veterans, their children and now grandchildren believe they’re battling with the effects of Agent Orange exposure.
Hope White, 39, from the Sunshine Coast, suffers from fibromyalgia, spinal problems and infertility. In 1968, her father was deployed for a year in Vietnam’s Phuoc Tuy Province, which was widely sprayed with Agent Orange.
“I’ve had a number of health problems from a young age — especially with my spine forming. I’m only on my feet through heavy medication, lots of physiotherapy and treatments for my back. I feel like my body’s fighting itself all the time, some days I can’t even get out of bed,” she explains.


Although statistics on the number of people affected by Agent Orange in Australia and their associated illnesses aren’t currently recorded, animal studies have shown that exposure to dioxin can lead to female infertility.
“I’ve found that childlessness is very common across the daughters of Vietnam veterans that I’ve spoken with”, says Hope. “It’s had a massive impact on my husband and me. Not having children has changed our lives significantly.”
Dr. Wayne Dwernychuk, a retired senior scientist, adviser with Hatfield and Agent Orange specialist, warns that “countless more generations could be affected in the future”. Research suggests that another six to twelve generations will have to pass before dioxin stops affecting the genetic code.




Support services, however, are steadily increasing for Agent Orange-affected families in Vietnam. In Da Nang, the NGO, Vietnam Association for Victims of Agent Orange, operates two day centres for disabled children, offering vocational training, rehabilitation and the chance to make friends. It’s a safe haven for children often left on the margins of society because of their disabilities.
Charitable donations also help children like 16-year-old Thao in Cu Chi, who’s waiting for funding for an operation on his legs. Unable to walk unaided, his legs bound from birth, he practices twice a day on his father’s makeshift rehabilitation walkway, steadied by wooden rails.
A quiet, timid boy who’s never been to school because of his disability, Thao sits beside his 15-year-old able-bodied brother, Hieu. Their grandfather fought in the war.
“When I see my brother like this, I feel sorry for him”, says Hieu, “I help him at home, sometimes I feed him and we play marbles together around the house.”
“What do you usually do at home?” I ask Thao. “I just lay there. I don’t have anything to do. I don’t feel sad, I’m used to it”. He only has one wish. “I just want to be able to walk,” Thao says quietly.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/vietnams-horrific-legacy-the-children-of-agent-orange/5451862

Very sad , but nothing to do with me . I was just trying to stay alive, same as the rest of my mates.

Never said you weren't Nicko, but still cheering about gunning down people in the water?  And being so proud of it you posted it twice?

sassy wrote:Never said you weren't Nicko, but still cheering about gunning down people in the water?  And being so proud of it you posted it twice?

Well there is a simple explanation as to why Nicko would feel the way he does. That is because he has seen close friends die and be injured. Their role first and foremost was the protection of each other and thus to lose people who are so close they are family is worse to see those closet to you die in graphic detail. They are continually punished with such memories. Not only this to have watched the many horrors played out to civilians. I may not agree with how Nicko feels on the war itself, but I certainly understand why he feels as he does. Wars play havoc on those serving in combat. Hate and resentment can easily build up when you witness your brothers die around you. So Nicko was rightly angry to lose friends and he vents that in the way that makes the most sense. Hating those who took his friends lives. To me in my opinion, this is how he deals with the past. Where none of us here are in a position to tell him how he should deal with the past, when none of us have faced such unimaginable horrors. Thus we would have no idea what he has gone through. 

So before you pull him up in the future over his views, try to understand for a minute why they might have formed.

Posting it twice was an accident.

THANKS DIDGE, I.M NOT VERY GOOD AT PUTTING FEELINGS INTO WORDS

Cuchulain wrote:

sassy wrote:Never said you weren't Nicko, but still cheering about gunning down people in the water?  And being so proud of it you posted it twice?

Well there is a simple explanation as to why Nicko would feel the way he does. That is because he has seen close friends die and be injured. Their role first and foremost was the protection of each other and thus to lose people who are so close they are family. Not only this to have watched the many horrors played out to civilians. I may not agree with how Nicko feels on the war itself, but I certainly understand why he feels as he does. Wars play havoc on those serving in combat. Hate and resentment can easily build up when you witness you brothers die around you. So Nicko was rightly angry to lose friends and he vents that in the way that makes most sense. Hating those who took his friends lives. To me in my opinion, this is how he deals with the past. Where none of us here are in a position to tell him how he should deal with the past, when none of us have faced such unimaginable horrors. Thus would have no idea what he has gone through. 

So before you pull him up in the future over his views, try to understand for a minute why they might have formed.

So have I, in fact the man I was going to marry out in Singapore was killed in Borneo.  And my two friends who were Malay were killed in Singapore by Indonesians.  Perhaps you don't know about the Indonesian/Malaysia troubles in the 60s, but I was there while they were happening.

The Indonesian–Malaysian confrontation or Borneo confrontation (also known by its Indonesian/Malay name, Konfrontasi) was a violent conflict from 1963–66 that stemmed from Indonesia's opposition to the creation of Malaysia. The creation of Malaysia was the amalgamation of the Federation of Malaya (now West Malaysia), Singapore and the crown colony/British protectorates of North Borneo and Sarawak (collectively known as British Borneo, now East Malaysia) in September 1963.^[7] Important precursors to the conflict included Indonesia's policy of confrontation against Netherlands New Guinea from March–August 1962 and the Brunei Revolt in December 1962.
The confrontation was an undeclared war with most of the action occurring in the border area between Indonesia and East Malaysia on the island of Borneo (known as Kalimantan in Indonesia). The conflict was characterised by restrained and isolated ground combat, set within tactics of low-level brinkmanship. Combat was usually conducted by company- or platoon-sized operations on either side of the border. Indonesia's campaign of infiltrations into Borneo sought to exploit the ethnic and religious diversity in Sabah and Sarawak compared to that of Malaya and Singapore, with the intent of unraveling the proposed state of Malaysia.


The MacDonald House bombing occurred on 21 July 1964, at the Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank building (now known as MacDonald House) along Orchard Road of Singapore, which was then part of Malaysia. The time bomb was planted by a duo of Indonesian saboteurs, during the period of Indonesia–Malaysia confrontation (also known as Konfrontasi). The explosion killed three people and injured at least 33 others.<sup>[1]


We had a bomb go off next to the Cathy Cinema while we were in it.</sup>

nicko wrote:THANKS DIDGE, I.M NOT VERY GOOD AT PUTTING FEELINGS INTO WORDS

You are welcome Nicko

Anyone, with the benefit of hindsight, who now knows what was done by both sides and still is proud of gunning down people struggling in the water, should be questioned.  Not the fact he did it, a lot of things were done at the time, but that he is still so proud of it, and thinks it was so good, he still talks about laughing about it with pleasure.

sassy wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


Well there is a simple explanation as to why Nicko would feel the way he does. That is because he has seen close friends die and be injured. Their role first and foremost was the protection of each other and thus to lose people who are so close they are family. Not only this to have watched the many horrors played out to civilians. I may not agree with how Nicko feels on the war itself, but I certainly understand why he feels as he does. Wars play havoc on those serving in combat. Hate and resentment can easily build up when you witness you brothers die around you. So Nicko was rightly angry to lose friends and he vents that in the way that makes most sense. Hating those who took his friends lives. To me in my opinion, this is how he deals with the past. Where none of us here are in a position to tell him how he should deal with the past, when none of us have faced such unimaginable horrors. Thus would have no idea what he has gone through. 

So before you pull him up in the future over his views, try to understand for a minute why they might have formed.

So have I, in fact the man I was going to marry out in Singapore was killed in Borneo.  And my two friends who were Malay were killed in Singapore by Indonesians.  Perhaps you don't know about the Indonesian/Malaysia troubles in the 60s, but I was there while they were happening.

The Indonesian–Malaysian confrontation or Borneo confrontation (also known by its Indonesian/Malay name, Konfrontasi) was a violent conflict from 1963–66 that stemmed from Indonesia's opposition to the creation of Malaysia. The creation of Malaysia was the amalgamation of the Federation of Malaya (now West Malaysia), Singapore and the crown colony/British protectorates of North Borneo and Sarawak (collectively known as British Borneo, now East Malaysia) in September 1963.^[7] Important precursors to the conflict included Indonesia's policy of confrontation against Netherlands New Guinea from March–August 1962 and the Brunei Revolt in December 1962.
The confrontation was an undeclared war with most of the action occurring in the border area between Indonesia and East Malaysia on the island of Borneo (known as Kalimantan in Indonesia). The conflict was characterised by restrained and isolated ground combat, set within tactics of low-level brinkmanship. Combat was usually conducted by company- or platoon-sized operations on either side of the border. Indonesia's campaign of infiltrations into Borneo sought to exploit the ethnic and religious diversity in Sabah and Sarawak compared to that of Malaya and Singapore, with the intent of unraveling the proposed state of Malaysia.


The MacDonald House bombing occurred on 21 July 1964, at the Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank building (now known as MacDonald House) along Orchard Road of Singapore, which was then part of Malaysia. The time bomb was planted by a duo of Indonesian saboteurs, during the period of Indonesia–Malaysia confrontation (also known as Konfrontasi). The explosion killed three people and injured at least 33 others.<sup>[1]


We had a bomb go off next to the Cathy Cinema while we were in it.</sup>

That is people who have experienced combat, but again you have not and can at best only gauge off the limited people you do know have been in combat. So I do not need any history lesson. What I was hoping is that you would have taken a step back to realise how views are created through the aspects of enduring conflict.

You did not take this into consideration at all here and to be honest that basically stems from the fact you do not have the slightest idea what its like. Now I have spoken to countless veterans over the years, but even then I can only attempt to paint the most limited picture of what it must be like. The painting will lack all context, because I have never experienced this. Now do you understand? For Nicko to cheer whilst serving in Vietnam after losing friends is a very natural reaction from men who have suffered under combat. To many here they are as you were shocked at this statement, but you would not be so shocked if you understood how it effects those who serve. You can read account after account, where soldiers cheer at the demise of their enemy. Where again imagine for one second how these young men who go off to war, have to switch their ethical codes off, in order to survive? Just think about that? Its kill or be killed, where soldiers have to adapt to the environment they are in.


So again all I ask is that you stop and think on a topic of conversation where they have been directly involved. So its evident it has played heavily on Nicko throughout his life. It really shows how strong the brotherhood he must of had with his fellow troops in the same company.

You can try and patronise me, you won't succeed.  My OH had his best friend killed next to him in N.Ireland.  He certainly doesn't boast about people he shot at and would never be trumpeting it about as if it was a wonderful experience and a great laugh.

sassy wrote:Anyone, with the benefit of hindsight, who now knows what was done by both sides and still is proud of gunning down people struggling in the water, should be questioned.  Not the fact he did it, a lot of things were done at the time, but that he is still so proud of it, and thinks it was so good, he still talks about laughing about it with pleasure.

Well of course he does if they were the enemy and were killing his comrades.

sassy wrote:Anyone, with the benefit of hindsight, who now knows what was done by both sides and still is proud of gunning down people struggling in the water, should be questioned.  Not the fact he did it, a lot of things were done at the time, but that he is still so proud of it, and thinks it was so good, he still talks about laughing about it with pleasure.

Well if you were to ask that question to many who have served. Who faced such perils and seen death come with a vengeance to to cart off so many young peoples lives. He has become hardened to knock caring about the enemy troops, which happens to many of those who serve. You want them dead, you are happy its them and not you. Some less of the enemy to worry about. Nothing wrong with questioning anything, but its important to understand the context of the time of where Nicko had to deal daily the horrors of that conflict. So it is hardly uprising men would cheer at others being killed. I cannot even begin to imagine what nightmare memories Nicko has from his time serving, where it must be like reliving that day over again. Like I say until you have experienced combat and understood the effects it has had on those who served in that Theater of war. Then you will never begin to understand how and why Nicko still feels the way he does today. I reckon 99 out 100 percent here if faced with the same situations would have in no doubt, have cheered also seeing some enemy die.

Yea right, my Dad flew Lancs and has the DFC and OBE, my partner was in the Black Watch and in many dangerous places and I was brought up in areas where bombs were going off and worked with the NZ forces while they were in Vietnam.  You know nothing Didge, so toddle along do.  I'm not questioning what happened and the time, but I am questioning that he is still proud of it and thinks it was bloody funny.

sassy wrote:You can try and patronise me, you won't succeed.  My OH had his best friend killed next to him in N.Ireland.  He certainly doesn't boast about people he shot at and would never be trumpeting it about as if it was a wonderful experience and a great laugh.

Not trying to patronize you at all but tell you bluntly you have no idea how it effects those who serve. To then say your OH is different does not change the fact in anyway  how many soldiers feel when they have seen those closest to them die. Until you are in this position, you need to understand how and why many soldiers have cheered seeing the enemy die. I do not believe  it is right to cheer on an ethical level, but I could not possible judge here with any sound reasoning, because it is impossible to comprehend what soldiers go through.

Don't be stupid, have lived all my life with people affected by war.

sassy wrote:Yea right, my Dad flew Lancs and has the DFC and OBE, my partner was in the Black Watch and in many dangerous places and I was brought up in areas where bombs were going off.  You know nothing Didge, so toddle along do.  I'm not questioning what happened and the time, but I am questioning that he is still proud of it and thinks it was bloody funny.

All these people are not you Sassy and thus you only experience second hand accounts, not first hand accounts. So telling me how many people you know in the armed forces is irrelevant. Now at no point have I been nasty to you and now you get all defensive. Again until you have faced what he has faced, you are in no position to judge. When you start to grasp how combat effects all soldiers, you then understand how such views can easily form. So I may not agree with Nicko cheering, but at least I can try to understand why he has.

Bully for you, I've had a lot more experience with people who have gone through it and I think it disgusting.

sassy wrote:Don't be stupid, have lived all my life with people affected by war.

They have been effected by combat.
You have not.
I grew up knowing my Grand Fathers who fought in WW2, how they suffered. It does not in any shape, begin to even imagine what it must be like for what they went through. It does not matter how close you are to someone, as you have never lived those moments they have.

sassy wrote:Bully for you, I've had a lot more experience with people who have gone through it and I think it disgusting.

All irrelevant.
You have not experienced such events yourself.
There will be soldiers serving who would disgusted and those who would cheer, which again is documented in war, after war, after war. So both mine and your understanding is very limited to second hand accounts given, which can never hope to paint the pictures of the full horror of combat.

I do hope you told off your leftie luvvies who cheered when Maggie Thatcher died Sassy.

Raggamuffin wrote:I do hope you told off your leftie luvvies who cheered when Maggie Thatcher died Sassy.

She also cheered herself and posted the song The Wicked Witch is Dead.
So she is being hypocritical towards Nicko, big time.

Did Maggie Thatcher die naturally.  Yes.  Did Nicko strafe those men struggling in the water so that holes were blown in them and their blood ran into the river - yes.  Bit of a difference.

Did I hate Maggie, I definitely did.  Would I have blown holes in her, no bloody way.

sassy wrote:Did Maggie Thatcher die naturally.  Yes.  Did Nicko strafe those men struggling in the water so that holes were blown in them and their blood ran into the river - yes.  Bit of a difference.

Poor deflection.
In both scenarios, people have died and in both people have cheered.
The cause of death is irrelevant. In both scenarios all that is important is the people have died.
Its the point of knowing that person is dead, that causes the celebration.
So there is utterly no difference.
Nicko cheered when VC were dead.
You cheered when Maggie was dead

And I'm supposed to care what you think or think your judgement is worth anything.  Not a chance.

sassy wrote:And I'm supposed to care what you think or think your judgement is worth anything.  Not a chance.

You do not have to do anything Sassy.
My reasoning is good enough to show you were hypocritical to judge Nicko over celebrating people dying, when you have celebrated someone dying also.

Your 'reasoning' is non existant.   And it wasn't that he celebrated them dying, he celebrated killing them and the way he killed them.

Again irrelevant on the base fact you both cheered someone dead.
The action is the same by both.  Well if you are going to cheer when she is dead, then not committing these acts makes no difference to being happy people are dead. One just gets credit for doing the deed, the other goes off the back of their death. 
So on both counts you both cheered when people died.
That makes you hypocritical.

sassy wrote:Did Maggie Thatcher die naturally.  Yes.  Did Nicko strafe those men struggling in the water so that holes were blown in them and their blood ran into the river - yes.  Bit of a difference.

Did I hate Maggie, I definitely did.  Would I have blown holes in her, no bloody way.

But those men were the enemy Sassy - they were killing his comrades, and they would have killed him given the chance.

I don't think that cheering when someone dies naturally is anything to be particularly proud of.

Raggamuffin wrote:

sassy wrote:Did Maggie Thatcher die naturally.  Yes.  Did Nicko strafe those men struggling in the water so that holes were blown in them and their blood ran into the river - yes.  Bit of a difference.

Did I hate Maggie, I definitely did.  Would I have blown holes in her, no bloody way.

But those men were the enemy Sassy - they were killing his comrades, and they would have killed him given the chance.

I don't think that cheering when someone dies naturally is anything to be particularly proud of.

I know, I was a Forces child, worked for the Forces and my partner was in the Forces.  They would not be still cheering the way they killed someone in war.  My dad had to bomb Germany, to this day he has nightmares about it and one of his crew killed himself because he couldn't live with it, and that was necessary.

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

But those men were the enemy Sassy - they were killing his comrades, and they would have killed him given the chance.

I don't think that cheering when someone dies naturally is anything to be particularly proud of.

I know, I was a Forces child, worked for the Forces and my partner was in the Forces.  They would not be still cheering the way they killed someone in war.  My dad had to bomb Germany, to this day he has nightmares about it and one of his crew killed himself because he couldn't live with it, and that was necessary.

Nicko didn't actually kill them though did he, he said he saw them killed by an American helicopter.

nicko wrote:We had just left a small village where the VC had just beheaded the village elder, his Wife and his two children for just talking to us.    So bollocks to you  lefty idiots.you'v never seen up close what these savages did.     One of our Squad was captured when wounded
, they cut off his privates stuffed them in his mouth and nailed him to a tree.
And you look down on me for cheering.  The vicious little bastards deserved all they got.

you were not there, you have no fcuking idea what it was like.

But, then, you are a walking advertisement for staying out of situations where you don't belong, nicko. You can't shock me with what goes on in war; but you can shock me with why you were there.

We go in there saying we are saving innocent children....so they tell us. But then we go in with tanks and weapons, not warm puppies. If we weren't bent on adding to the ugliness and mayhem, why the weapons?

Peacekeepers are just more death, with a separate mission.

Can I just make it clear, some people think I was in the Helecoptor doing the shooting, I was NOT . I was on the bank of the River watching it happen. I would now like to forget it, but I can' t along with other memories.

Quill, I didn't ask to go, I was ordered to. Can you see the diference?

Cheering people being shot in cold blood is pretty grotesque, but I appreciate having seen atrocities committed against your friends your mentality would be badly affected- do you now think what those Americans did was wrong though nicko?

And as an aside, what is this last page to do with Icelands heroic charity offering?

Eilzel, all war is wrong, I wish it had not happened, but it did and I was part of it.

Now everyone please lets not talk about any more.

Eilzel wrote:Cheering people being shot in cold blood is pretty grotesque, but I appreciate having seen atrocities committed against your friends your mentality would be badly affected- do you now think what those Americans did was wrong though nicko?

And as an aside, what is this last page to do with Icelands heroic charity offering?

Morning Eilzel

I do not think many people are being fair here to be honest to Nicko. Its easy for us to sit back in hindsight after events and  berate someone because of their emotions during a conflict. I have spoken to many Veterans in the past when studying in regards to WW2. Some hated the Germans, others never came to hate them at all, many though did witness atrocities and of the ones who hated the Germans, all were happy to see any Germans dead. With Veterans from Japan this number of those happy to see Japs dead was way higher. Its easy for us all to sit back and say that is a horrible thing to say, but then we were never there or experienced its horrors, or the loss of close friends. Watching their once living bodies killed in front of your own eyes. Now I bet if this had been in WW2 and this had happened to some Japanese troops, people on here would have been less vocal about his reactions, based upon how we perceive the given enemy. 

I think Vietnam invokes anger at how it was such a costly war with the loss of life and how poorly the Americans treated the people they were sent to try and defend. I also think you have to factor also how people were brought up at different times during the 20th century, where as we have Islamic extremism as the most pressing threat to the freedom of peoples lives today, back then Communism was drummed into people with an even greater fear. It becomes a war of ideologies, where the greatest western power at that time was defeated by greater tactics. I also think the media had a massive part in changing perceptions. The more people got to see back home the horrors of war, the more they become horrified by it all. Even if a conflict is all wrong, you can still end up hating those you fought against because of the losses you suffered and even more so when you are part of the allied forces that lost the war. The anger is furthered channeled towards the enemy. The one pattern I saw repeated throughout talking to many Vets is how it had completely messed with their minds mentally. We send young men into combat zones, where they have to dehumanize themselves in order to survive, as in many cases they have to kill. That is sadly war for you and why I think its appalling we do not do more to help those men and women today who do serve to adjust back into civilian life.

So I can easily see how such an environment like combat can change views to where normally people would have sympathy for people being killed, but war effects them psychologically in ways both you and I would not have a hope of even understanding. So such actions are inhuman to me and you, but in the context of combat it is not an unnatural reaction of soldiers to do so and is often found time and time again in recounts of combat. I just think because it is more so the Vietnam war, people are then more vocal on this because of the poor and wrong reasons why war occurred.

Just read through this thread and boy, what a lot of bitterness.
Vera and rags call a truce eh? (Veya you mentioned rags first on a thread she wasn't posting on to be fair)
Dodge and rags, do kindly stop spamming with your stupid "fuck offs" and "poo poo mouth!" Pictures - very dumb.

And sass? Please put warnings before your pics please?!

I feel really irrttated by this thread - not least because Nicko thinks cheering about killing children is okay.

eddie wrote:Just read through this thread and boy, what a lot of bitterness.
Vera and rags call a truce eh? (Veya you mentioned rags first on a thread she wasn't posting on to be fair)
Dodge and rags, do kindly stop spamming with your stupid "fuck offs" and "poo poo mouth!" Pictures - very dumb.

And sass? Please put warnings before  your pics please?!

I feel really irrttated by this thread - not least because Nicko thinks cheering about  killing children is okay.

OMG Veya has already spoken to the pair off us on that,
So please keep up with what has already happened.
Rags has started on Veya on threads as well, so again you take a really biased outlook from one thread, ignoring another where she claimed he would like to run over British children.
Get a grip for goodness sake
Its potty mouth by the way.

Burger.

eddie wrote:Burger.

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t11365-the-day-a-picture-woke-us-from-our-compassionate-sleep#220611

sassy wrote:You obviously like saying that Nicko, it's twice you have posted it.  The world quite rightly ended up condemning things down in Vietnam.  I know, I was in Singapore and helped write the history of the New Zealand Air Force in Singapore and protested in London, and watched the world become appalled at the atrocities committed there.  Sounds like you were one of the people committing them.

That's out of order. Didn't you say your dad was a bomber pilot? Or least ways "high up" in the airforce. Don't many view the bombing of Dresden as an atrocity?
The boys on the ground don't decide where they go and only those actually in combat know what it's like. It was and is their lives on the line and they have my gratitude and admiration

Nems wrote:

sassy wrote:You obviously like saying that Nicko, it's twice you have posted it.  The world quite rightly ended up condemning things down in Vietnam.  I know, I was in Singapore and helped write the history of the New Zealand Air Force in Singapore and protested in London, and watched the world become appalled at the atrocities committed there.  Sounds like you were one of the people committing them.

That's out of order. Didn't you say your dad was a bomber pilot? Or least ways "high up" in the airforce. Don't many view the bombing of Dresden as an atrocity?
The boys on the ground don't decide where they go and only those actually  in combat know what it's like. It was and is their lives on the line and they have my gratitude and admiration

Yes, and that's why he still has nightmares  and would never rejoice about it.   If you read, I did not condemn Nicko for what he did at the time, but the fact with all the things we now know, he was still obviously proud of it.  All the forces do things they have to at the time, they don't rejoice about it years later.

That's it Sass. In war people are forced, driven or led to doing terrible things. Enjoying them or being proud of them is something altogether more dark.