4 out of 5 refugees not syrian????

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:33 am

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3240010/Number-refugees-arriving-Europe-soars-85-year-just-one-five-war-torn-Syria.html

Four out of five migrants are NOT from Syria: EU figures expose the 'lie' that the majority of refugees are fleeing war zone
Some 44,000 of the 213,000 refugees who arrived in Europe were from Syria
A further 27,000 new arrivals on the continent came from Afghanistan
Britain received one in 30 of all the asylum claims made by new applicants
David Cameron has offered to take in 20,000 refugees but none from the EU

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3240010/Number-refugees-arriving-Europe-soars-85-year-just-one-five-war-torn-Syria.html#ixzz3mAS8qZNz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

it seems we have some taking advantage of what is going on....

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:45 am

Its not a lie at all, just the fact he Daily Mail is run by idiots.

First of all, their figures are for only 3 months April, May and June and not crucially July, August and September when we have seen the mass increase of Syrian refugees trying to reach Europe as well as other refugees.
The Mail makes this point.

Half a million migrants have arrived in Europe so far this year, with 156,000 coming in August alone

So in the first 7 months we had approx 350,000 migrants and refugees, where we see the numbers treble for people coming to Europe which would match the mass influx with have seen since August of refugees. Notice that the Mail also does as a certain poster and does not even refer to those who have drowned as refugees but migrants, which is in error if they are fleeing.

Also the latest stats from the UN Refugee Agency is at the bottom of the page:

So the Daily Mail is trying to pull a fast one.
Not only is it going off only 3 months but that does not show how many other nations claimed asylum. It also does not give a correct picture of how many Syrians have applied for asylum in the EU this year alone, which actually is 290, 719. A stark contrast to what the Mail is claiming which makes Syrian Refugees the biggest group by far. That means this year alone out of all people coming to the EU Whether migrants or refugees that Syrians applied for asylum and make up near 60 percent to the Daily Mail figure of half a million that have come to the EU. This figure does not include all others who have applied for Asylum

Now do we have the figures for Asylum applications in the EU?
Yes we do but only from Jan to June and in this time there have been 398,290 asylum applications up until and including June. Within that time there have been 73,310 Syrians up until and including June. That means since June a further 217,000 Syrians have applied for asylum in EU since June.

Data can be sought from here, but what it shows is that the Daily Mail is clearly try to stoke up anger against refugees by first classing them as migrants which by international law is illegal. Second they are try to skew the figures to make out only 1 in 5 are Syrians that have come to the EU this year which is bollocks. As they are trying to compare 3 months to the rest of the year, ignoring all the other months data has been collated.
As seen Syrians now make up near 50 percent of arrivals this year to the EU which amounts to around 600,000 asylum applications this year

Links for data

http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/asylum.php

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:First_time_asylum_applicants_in_the_EU-28_by_citizenship,_Q2_2014_%E2%80%93_Q2_2015.png

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:02 am

Edit
Lol Just seen I have done a maths blooper myself rechecking the stats. I should have deducted around approx 50,000-60,000 Syrian applications between 2012 and 2014. Which would still make approx 157,000 to 167,000 Syrians that have applied for asylum since July. Which would mean approx 230,000 to 240,000 Syrians who have applied for Asylum this year.

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:19 am

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/606367/Immigration-European-Union-Syria-Sir-Bill-Cash-Eurostat-David-Cameron-Yvette-Cooper

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:30 am

So the Daily Express is making the same stupid mistake.
Anyway Fullfact is on the case and no doubt Monday will she how much in error both newspapers have been here on their poor claims

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:52 am

Cuchulain wrote:So the Daily Express is making the same stupid mistake.
Anyway Fullfact is on the case and no doubt Monday will she how much in error both newspapers have been here on their poor claims

2 papers make a mistake and you are right, yep I thought as much... Smile

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:58 am

heavenlyfatheryetagain wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:So the Daily Express is making the same stupid mistake.
Anyway Fullfact is on the case and no doubt Monday will she how much in error both newspapers have been here on their poor claims
2 papers make a mistake and you are right, yep I thought as much...

I suggest you look at the links giving the exact numbers of Syrians that have applied for asylum in the Eu.
Where as I showed the Mail was trying to pull a fast one going off just 3 months of this year. More importantly ignoring the months which have seen the vast influx of Syrian Refugees.
These two papers are notorious for screwing up
Have informed Fullfact, you are also going to right a rebuttal.

Here

http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/asylum.php

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:First_time_asylum_applicants_in_the_EU-28_by_citizenship,_Q2_2014_%E2%80%93_Q2_2015.png

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:00 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
heavenlyfatheryetagain wrote:
2 papers make a mistake and you are right, yep I thought as much...

I suggest you look at the links giving the exact numbers of Syrians that have applied for asylum in the Eu.
Where as I showed the Mail was trying to pull a fast one going off just 3 months of this year. More importantly ignoring the months which have seen the vast influx of Syrian Refugees.
These two papers are notorious for screwing up
Have informed Fullfact, you are also going to right a rebuttal.

Here

http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/asylum.php

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:First_time_asylum_applicants_in_the_EU-28_by_citizenship,_Q2_2014_%E2%80%93_Q2_2015.png

right.......... Smile

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:05 pm

Well the the UN have access to the information from all the relevant EU nations on the amount of applications from Syrians. That is about as up to date and accurate as you can get on the number of Syrians who have applied for asylum in the EU..

by Raggamuffin Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:00 pm

Even other papers say that less than 50% are from Syria.

I think it's fairly obvious that not all these people are "fleeing" for their lives.

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:54 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Even other papers say that less than 50% are from Syria.

I think it's fairly obvious that not all these people are "fleeing" for their lives.

You do realise that many times papers make errors and even more so when they denied my post on the article today. Which shows they know they are intentionally stirring feelings up based on false information.
Again they went off 3 months, ignoring the last 3 months of which the numbers from Syria dwarfs the previous 6 months. The mail intentionally tries to stir up but see my links and they show up to date Stats for applications.
I think its very obvious some papers pander to idiots

by Tommy Monk Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:02 pm

None of them are... they are all economic migrants and chancers...

And very bad actors when talking to the tv cameras...

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:08 pm

A refugee, in contrast to a migrant, is according to the Geneva Convention on Refugees applied to a person who is outside their home country of citizenship because they have well-founded grounds for fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political ..

by Tommy Monk Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:12 pm

An illegal immigrant is a foreign national who is in another country without permission to be there!!!

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:26 pm

Cuchulain wrote:A refugee, in contrast to a migrant, is according to the Geneva Convention on Refugees applied to a person who is outside their home country of citizenship because they have well-founded grounds for fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political ..

So until an application has been made for asylum in a country they remain refugees.
The key is that they have left their homes from persecution and thus cannot be migrants, as the differences are very clear/ Just to clear this up if anyone is confused by the constant mistakes I asee posted by some others. So they legally remain refugees.

by Tommy Monk Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:54 pm

No dodge... it is The other way round... a They are illegal immigrants until they declare themselves and make a claim to be asylum seekers... then their legal status as asylum seekers starts from that point, and their right to remain is then investigated after this...

They are illegal immigrants until they declare themselves and actually make a claim to be asylum seekers!!!

by eddie Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:03 pm

If you look on here you have to apply to be an asylum seeker?

https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum/overview

So what are you, until you apply?

by Tommy Monk Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:08 pm

An illegal immigrant!!!

lol!

So why is it wrong for countries to try to stop mobs of people steaming across their borders into their countries by force!!!???

Why is it wrong to try to identify these people and search them etc!!!???

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:09 pm

eddie wrote:If you look on here you have to apply to be an asylum seeker?

https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum/overview

So what are you, until you apply?

A refugee:

A refugee, in contrast to a migrant, is according to the Geneva Convention on Refugees applied to a person who is outside their home country of citizenship because they have well-founded grounds for fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political ..

by eddie Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:14 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
eddie wrote:If you look on here you have to apply to be an asylum seeker?

https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum/overview

So what are you, until you apply?

A refugee:

A refugee, in contrast to a migrant, is according to the Geneva Convention on Refugees applied to a person who is outside their home country of citizenship because they have well-founded grounds for fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political ..

Yes I see that.
But what I'm asking is, if you have to apply, what are you called before you apply?

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:14 pm

eddie wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

A refugee:

A refugee, in contrast to a migrant, is according to the Geneva Convention on Refugees applied to a person who is outside their home country of citizenship because they have well-founded grounds for fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political ..

Yes I see that.
But what I'm asking is, if you have to apply, what are you called before you apply?

A refugee.

by eddie Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:17 pm

So everyone that arrives is a refugee? Everyone?
So they are called refugees, then they apply to be asylum seekers?

I'm not being obtuse I'm genuinely confused? Especially when this is the government guideline:

https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum/overview

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:17 pm

eddie wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

A refugee:

A refugee, in contrast to a migrant, is according to the Geneva Convention on Refugees applied to a person who is outside their home country of citizenship because they have well-founded grounds for fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political ..

Yes I see that.
But what I'm asking is, if you have to apply, what are you called before you apply?

A refugee as migrants generally do not claim asylum.
So Eddie they are refugees if they are homeless or nation through a well founded fear and threat. That is what defines them and they remain this until their application has been accepted by a nation. Where they then change to Asylum seekers, through still technically refugees until their application has been accepted

by eddie Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:20 pm

"You must apply for asylum if you want to stay in the UK as a refugee."

So what are you, if you have to apply for asylum to BECOME a refugee???

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:20 pm

eddie wrote:So everyone that arrives is a refugee? Everyone?
So they are called refugees, then they apply to be asylum seekers?

I'm not being obtuse I'm genuinely confused? Especially when this is the government guideline:

https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum/overview

Nope those who apply for asylum are generally refugee.
EU migrants have free movement.
Non _ EU have to meet many requirements now after new laws

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:21 pm

eddie wrote:So everyone that arrives is a refugee? Everyone?
So they are called refugees, then they apply to be asylum seekers?

I'm not being obtuse I'm genuinely confused? Especially when this is the government guideline:

https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum/overview

Anyone who arrives who is fleeing terror and fears for their life is a refugee. When they get to a country they apply for asylum.

A migrant is someone who choses to move with no threat making them move.

by eddie Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:23 pm

eddie wrote:"You must apply for asylum if you want to stay in the UK as a refugee."

So what are you, if you have to apply for asylum to BECOME a refugee???

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:24 pm

eddie wrote:"You must apply for asylum if you want to stay in the UK as a refugee."

So what are you, if you have to apply for asylum to BECOME a refugee???

They are already a refugee legally because of this one telling point:

Until proven otherwise through the application process.

We have far stricter asylum process than other nations, so where we may have rejected someone, they may be accepted in another nation.

This may help

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33849593

by eddie Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:26 pm

Look if I want to be a sausage I have to apply to be one, right?
Before I apply and get accepted and become a sausage, I remain a non-sausage.

I am not a sausage.

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:29 pm

sassy wrote:
eddie wrote:So everyone that arrives is a refugee? Everyone?
So they are called refugees, then they apply to be asylum seekers?

I'm not being obtuse I'm genuinely confused? Especially when this is the government guideline:

https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum/overview
Anyone who arrives who is fleeing terror and fears for their life is a refugee. When they get to a country they apply for asylum.

A migrant is someone who choses to move with no threat making them move.

Spot on Sassy.

What is the difference between a refugee and an asylum seeker?

What are refugees?

A refugee is a person who:
'owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country'
Article 1, 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees

What is an asylum seeker?
An asylum seeker is someone who has applied for asylum and is waiting for a decision as to whether or not they are a refugee. In other words, in the UK an asylum seeker is someone who has asked the Government for refugee status and is waiting to hear the outcome of their application.

http://www.unhcr.org.uk/about-us/the-uk-and-asylum.html

by eddie Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:32 pm

Hi Christie!

Yes, so what are they before they're asylum seekers?
Gosh! I know you e just arrived but no one has answered me yet lol

by Tommy Monk Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:35 pm

You have to declare yourself and claim to be a refugee seeking asylum before your are classified as an asylum seeker...

If you are a foreign national in a country without permission to be there, or have overstayed your legal permission to be there etc, then you are an illegal immigrant...

An asylum seeker only gets legal permission to remain in a country as an asylum seeker after having declared themselves to the national authorities as a asylum seeker... and only Then do they have the legal status of 'asylum seeker'...

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:35 pm

eddie wrote:Hi Christie!

Yes, so what are they before they're asylum seekers?
Gosh! I know you e just arrived but no one has answered me yet lol

They will be a refugee looking to apply for asylum which if granted, will give them refugee status which entitles them to further rights.

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:36 pm

eddie wrote:Hi Christie!

Yes, so what are they before they're asylum seekers?
Gosh! I know you e just arrived but no one has answered me yet lol

You have had at least 3 answers.

by eddie Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:39 pm

sassy wrote:
eddie wrote:Hi Christie!

Yes, so what are they before they're asylum seekers?
Gosh! I know you e just arrived but no one has answered me yet lol

You have had at least 3 answers.

No I haven't. I've had three people tell me what a refugee is and I already know that.

If you actually looked at my question you'd see that no one has answered it.
Perhaps no kne knows. I still don't?

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:40 pm

eddie wrote:
sassy wrote:

You have had at least 3 answers.

No I haven't. I've had three people tell me what a refugee is and I already know that.

If you actually looked at my question you'd see that no one has answered it.
Perhaps no kne knows. I still don't?

Yes we have Eddie, a refugee is someone who is fleeing terror, they they apply for asylum.

A migrant is someone who choses to move and does not fear for their life or liberty.

by Tommy Monk Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:41 pm

I have answered the question...

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:42 pm

eddie wrote:
sassy wrote:

You have had at least 3 answers.

No I haven't. I've had three people tell me what a refugee is and I already know that.

If you actually looked at my question you'd see that no one has answered it.
Perhaps no kne knows. I still don't?

They are called refugees. When they get to the country where they want to seek refugee, they then apply for asylum, to be granted an official refugee status.

by eddie Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:43 pm

eddie wrote:
eddie wrote:"You must apply for asylum if you want to stay in the UK as a refugee."

So what are you, if you have to apply for asylum to BECOME a refugee???

Sigh.

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:44 pm

When you apply for asylum in the United Kingdom (UK), you are asking the authorities to recognise you as a refugee as defined by a piece of international law called the 1951 United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees (RC 1951). Whether or not you qualify for protection under the Refugee Convention will depend on whether you have a ‘well-founded fear of persecution’ because of your race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion.

Alternatively, you may have other humanitarian or compelling reasons why you need to stay in the UK, the denial of which may violate your human rights under the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). Your legal representative should be able to tell you whether this applies to you. Asylum and human rights laws are complex. It is vital that you get good legal advice and representation. When you apply for asylum, the authorities will refer to you as an ‘asylum seeker’.

http://www.legalcentre.org/Asylum-Refugees-Humanitarian-Protection-and-Discretionary-Leave.html

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:47 pm

eddie wrote:
eddie wrote:

Sigh.

A REFUGEE !!!! then an asylum seeker. Then if asylum is granted, you are given official refugee status.

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:49 pm

Christie wrote:
eddie wrote:

Sigh.

A REFUGEE !!!! then an asylum seeker. Then if asylum is granted, you are given official refugee status.

Quite! Come on Eddie!

by Tommy Monk Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:51 pm

Christie wrote:
eddie wrote:

No I haven't. I've had three people tell me what a refugee is and I already know that.

If you actually looked at my question you'd see that no one has answered it.
Perhaps no kne knows. I still don't?

They are called refugees. When they get to the country where they want to seek refugee, they then apply for asylum, to be granted an official refugee status.

No... they are illegal immigrants in any country and committing criminal offences in being there and trying to smuggle themselves across borders etc...

They are only defined as asylum seekers once they have declared themselves to national authority and made a claim to be so... then they gain the legal right to remain while their application has been processed and investigated...

Until then, they are prohibited from working or leaving that country.

Makes you wonder why those Syrians in Turkey who had already gained safety and been accepted etc, and allowed to work etc, would think that was not good enough for them...!?

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:52 pm

I think Eddie is confused over the wording, where she thinks refugee status can only be applied once they have claimed asylum.
When they do not have to.

This may help

A refugee, in contrast to a migrant, is according to the Geneva Convention on Refugees applied to a person who is outside their home country of citizenship because they have well-founded grounds for fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, and is unable to obtain sanctuary from their home country or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail themselves of the protection of that country; or in the case of not having a nationality and being outside their country of former habitual residence as a result of such event, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to their country of former habitual residence.Such a person may be called an "asylum seeker" until considered with the status of "refugee" by the Contracting State where they formally make a claim for sanctuary or right of asylum.

by eddie Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:52 pm

So you are called a refugee legally, you claim asylum to become a refugee, then become a refugee?
But you are already a refugee?

How confusing is that?

Now I thought you had to visit the "immigration" officer then go through the process.
So when you arrive you are an immigrant until you apply for asylum to become a refugee, yes?

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:53 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Christie wrote:

They are called refugees. When they get to the country where they want to seek refugee, they then apply for asylum, to be granted an official refugee status.

No... they are illegal immigrants in any country and committing criminal offences in being there and trying to smuggle themselves across borders etc...

They are only defined as asylum seekers once they have declared themselves to national authority and made a claim to be so... then they gain the legal right to remain while their application has been processed and investigated...

Until then, they are prohibited from working or leaving that country.

Makes you wonder why those Syrians in Turkey who had already gained safety and been accepted etc, and allowed to work etc, would think that was not good enough for them...!?

Tell you what Tommy, why don't you fuck off and live in Syria and let a decent person live here.

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:54 pm

eddie wrote:So you are called a refugee legally, you claim asylum to become a refugee, then become a refugee?
But you are already a refugee?

How confusing is that?

Now I thought you had to visit the "immigration" officer then go through the process.
So when you arrive you are an immigrant until you apply for asylum to become a refugee, yes?

As soon as you flee terror, fearing for your life or liberty YOU ARE A REFUGEE. When you arrive YOU ARE A REFUGEE. You then apply for asylum BECAUSE YOU ARE A REFUGEE. You are NEVER an immigrant.

by Tommy Monk Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:55 pm

"...Such a person may be called an "asylum seeker" until considered with the status of "refugee" by the Contracting State where they formally make a claim for sanctuary or right of asylum.."

Until a claim is made, they are illegal immigrants in any and every other country!!!!!!!!!

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:57 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:"...Such a person may be called an "asylum seeker" until considered with the status of "refugee" by the Contracting State where they formally make a claim for sanctuary or right of asylum.."

Until a claim is made, they are illegal immigrants in any and every other country!!!!!!!!!

Are they fuck illegal immigrants beforehand. Are you unable to read official documents?

by Guest Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:00 pm

Christie wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:"...Such a person may be called an "asylum seeker" until considered with the status of "refugee" by the Contracting State where they formally make a claim for sanctuary or right of asylum.."

Until a claim is made, they are illegal immigrants in any and every other country!!!!!!!!!

Are they fuck illegal immigrants beforehand. Are you unable to read official documents?

Probably, and would refuse to read anything that says the opposite of what his unrelenting racism and inhumane attitude believes.

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