Shocking images of drowned Syrian boy show tragic plight of refugees

First topic message reminder :

The full horror of the human tragedy unfolding on the shores of Europe was brought home on Wednesday as images of the lifeless body of a young boy – one of at least 12 Syrians who drowned attempting to reach the Greek island of Kos – encapsulated the extraordinary risks refugees are taking to reach the west.

The picture, taken on Wednesday morning, depicted the dark-haired toddler, wearing a bright-red T-shirt and shorts, washed up on a beach, lying face down in the surf not far from Turkey’s fashionable resort town of Bodrum.

A second image portrays a grim-faced policeman carrying the tiny body away. Within hours it had gone viral becoming the top trending picture on Twitter under the hashtag #KiyiyaVuranInsanlik (humanity washed ashore).

Justin Forsyth, CEO of Save the Children, said: “This tragic image of a little boy who’s lost his life fleeing Syria is shocking and is a reminder of the dangers children and families are taking in search of a better life. This child’s plight should concentrate minds and force the EU to come together and agree to a plan to tackle the refugee crisis.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/02/shocking-image-of-drowned-syrian-boy-shows-tragic-plight-of-refugees

Later in the article this is described as a refugee issue, not a migrant issue. I agree, heartbreaking

Raggamuffin wrote:

Shady wrote:

I'm only part way through the thread Tommy & there is the usual over reactionary guff that I expected there would be.Me & my wife spent sometime chatting over this subject this morning & we agreed that the press & public reaction to the photographs & deaths of the children & their mother is disgustingly discriminatory to say the least.

Sure the deaths are tragic & pictures sad,but are the deaths any worse than the hundreds of homosexual guys who have been chucked off buildings,cranes & other towers in Syria?

Are the deaths somehow worse than the migrants who were trapped in a sinking vessel in transit from Libya during the summer? That's what my wife asked me & she says that over 50 women & children died together.

Can someone confirm that for me? Over 50 women & children dead in one boat & in one go?

How come the deaths & images of those children are any worse than dozens of people drowning slowly in a sinking boat?

I'm glad that I don't discriminate like that.

The photo of Alyan was used as a symbol apparently - a symbol of how European policy re refugees was failing them. I'm not entirely sure why it was the fault of Europeans that Alyan's father took him on a leaky boat, or why inviting refugees to come to Europe would stop people going in boats, but hey ...

I appreciate the symbolic impact of the picture Raggs but in my opinion,a badly beaten,terrified & humiliated gay bloke being slung off a tall building is just as impactive as a dead child on a beach.

Or am I being over sensitive?

It was this boy And his mother and brother who died I think... the father was the driver of the boat and he then went back to Syria!!!


Had been in turkey for some time...



My point being that once they are in turkey and free to live and work etc... turkey being a safe country...


Do you think they have any legitimate reason to enter Europe illegally and push up into northern EU through many other safe countries and marching through countries ignoring their rules, laws and borders?

Shady wrote:Check out this link about the mentioned figure of 216 Syrian migrants:

https://fullfact.org/factcheck/immigration/uk_216_syrian_refugees-45984

The figure is like I said,about 5000 Syrians already allowed entry to the UK.

Thank you for that confirmation shady... I have suggested elsewhere that many thousands more syrians had already arrived than the tiny figure being claimed by the lefties...

Shady wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

The photo of Alyan was used as a symbol apparently - a symbol of how European policy re refugees was failing them. I'm not entirely sure why it was the fault of Europeans that Alyan's father took him on a leaky boat, or why inviting refugees to come to Europe would stop people going in boats, but hey ...

I appreciate the symbolic impact of the picture Raggs but in my opinion,a badly beaten,terrified & humiliated gay bloke being slung off a tall building is just as impactive as a dead child on a beach.

Or am I being over sensitive?

Perhaps they didn't stand still long enough for a photographer to get a good picture.

Shady wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

The photo of Alyan was used as a symbol apparently - a symbol of how European policy re refugees was failing them. I'm not entirely sure why it was the fault of Europeans that Alyan's father took him on a leaky boat, or why inviting refugees to come to Europe would stop people going in boats, but hey ...

I appreciate the symbolic impact of the picture Raggs but in my opinion,a badly beaten,terrified & humiliated gay bloke being slung off a tall building is just as impactive as a dead child on a beach.

Or am I being over sensitive?

The child's death was accidental, unfortunate but completely unnecessary and preventable, the family were safe and sound in turkey and his death was completely caused by the parents actions.



However this is all the lefties want to talk about and how it is all out fault etc...



Not a peep out of them about the torture and murder of homosexuals though... or about the Christian and other religious minorities being brutally murdered and the women and children being raped and openly sold as slaves...



They just want to tell us how it is nothing to do with Islam etc...


http://www.wnd.com/2014/12/isis-cites-quran-to-justify-child-rape/

Shady wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Shady wrote:

I'm only part way through the thread Tommy & there is the usual over reactionary guff that I expected there would be.Me & my wife spent sometime chatting over this subject this morning & we agreed that the press & public reaction to the photographs & deaths of the children & their mother is disgustingly discriminatory to say the least.

Sure the deaths are tragic & pictures sad,but are the deaths any worse than the hundreds of homosexual guys who have been chucked off buildings,cranes & other towers in Syria?

Are the deaths somehow worse than the migrants who were trapped in a sinking vessel in transit from Libya during the summer? That's what my wife asked me & she says that over 50 women & children died together.

Can someone confirm that for me? Over 50 women & children dead in one boat & in one go?

How come the deaths & images of those children are any worse than dozens of people drowning slowly in a sinking boat?

I'm glad that I don't discriminate like that.

The photo of Alyan was used as a symbol apparently - a symbol of how European policy re refugees was failing them. I'm not entirely sure why it was the fault of Europeans that Alyan's father took him on a leaky boat, or why inviting refugees to come to Europe would stop people going in boats, but hey ...

I appreciate the symbolic impact of the picture Raggs but in my opinion,a badly beaten,terrified & humiliated gay bloke being slung off a tall building is just as impactive as a dead child on a beach.

Or am I being over sensitive?

how are they the same issue?

refugees...
homophobia in Islam ...
two separate things
Except for Homosexual refugees which is assume you would like your nation to take in as many as possible since you felt the impact of seeing those hate crimes
Unfortunately while you said 'impactive' you didn't say how much?
have these Images Inspired you to equal levels of kindness???

veya_victaous wrote:

Shady wrote:

I appreciate the symbolic impact of the picture Raggs but in my opinion,a badly beaten,terrified & humiliated gay bloke being slung off a tall building is just as impactive as a dead child on a beach.

Or am I being over sensitive?

how are they the same issue?

refugees...
homophobia in Islam ...
two separate things
Except for Homosexual refugees    which is assume you would like your nation to take in as many as possible    since you felt the impact of seeing those hate crimes
 Unfortunately while you said 'impactive' you didn't say how much?
have these Images Inspired you to equal levels of kindness???

Thank you for that post which reinforces my position about discrimination.

You discriminate while I don't.

Shady wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Shady wrote:

I appreciate the symbolic impact of the picture Raggs but in my opinion,a badly beaten,terrified & humiliated gay bloke being slung off a tall building is just as impactive as a dead child on a beach.

Or am I being over sensitive?

how are they the same issue?

refugees...
homophobia in Islam ...
two separate things
Except for Homosexual refugees    which is assume you would like your nation to take in as many as possible    since you felt the impact of seeing those hate crimes
 Unfortunately while you said 'impactive' you didn't say how much?
have these Images Inspired you to equal levels of kindness???

Thank you for that post which reinforces my position about discrimination.

You discriminate while I don't.

But, Shady, what can you do about either issue? You can help refugees, but you're not going to be able to personally do anything to prevent ISIS from killing gay people.

So it sounds like you're holding the refugees personally responsible for the deaths of gay people at the hands of ISIS.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Shady wrote:

Thank you for that post which reinforces my position about discrimination.

You discriminate while I don't.

But, Shady, what can you do about either issue? You can help refugees, but you're not going to be able to personally do anything to prevent ISIS from killing gay people.

So it sounds like you're holding the refugees personally responsible for the deaths of gay people at the hands of ISIS.

I'm merely pointing out peoples discrimination & over reaction to the pictures of the drowned child in Turkey.

The images of people being chucked off a crane are just as disturbing as the child on the beach images.

I've tried to work out how you could possibly misinterpret my comments about holding the refugees responsible etc etc........But I can't.

The reaction to the dead children was an over reaction reinforced in some cases with discrimination.

But having said that,I do realize that we are all different & I tend not to over react or discriminate.

Shady wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Shady wrote:

Thank you for that post which reinforces my position about discrimination.

You discriminate while I don't.

But, Shady, what can you do about either issue? You can help refugees, but you're not going to be able to personally do anything to prevent ISIS from killing gay people.

So it sounds like you're holding the refugees personally responsible for the deaths of gay people at the hands of ISIS.

I'm merely pointing out peoples discrimination & over reaction to the pictures of the drowned child in Turkey.

The images of people being chucked off a crane are just as disturbing as the child on the beach images.

I've tried to work out how you could possibly misinterpret my comments about holding the refugees responsible etc etc........But I can't.

The reaction to the dead children was an over reaction reinforced in some cases with discrimination.

But having said that,I do realize that we are all different & I tend not to over react or discriminate.

you are saying we should not feel sorry for refugees because of some completely unrelated death. How is it an over reaction? are you saying people should just ignore Drowned Children ...

HOW ARE YOU NOT BLAMING REFUGEES FOR THOSE DEATHS??
you are the very least saying every one should punish refugees because of video of homosexuals begin murdered.
WHY Shady? Why should we punish refugee children because the British, US and Australian forces etc created a power vacuum that allowed ISIS to Rise and commit atrocities?


You just showed that you will use Any excuse no matter how illogical an nonsensical in your persecution of refugees even when it has nothing at all to do with anything.

Your right it is not actually discrimination, Just straight up stupidity and hatred of refugees the term for that is persecution.

Turkey has aslum laws that have geographical limitations meaning that refugees in Turkey from the middle east are only granted temporary settlement and they have to move on at some stage.

Turkey deserves a lot of credit for the way they have accepted so many asylum seekers but the fact remains that if they are from Syria etc.they cannot stay there.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/12/us-turkey-refugees-idUSBRE93B0XO20130412

Amnesty International....

Human Rights Concerns: Ill-Treatment of Refugees

Each year, thousands of people seeking refugee status from more than 30 countries arrive in Turkey. The national authorities are taking ever greater responsibility for refugee status determination in Turkey but have yet to develop a fair procedure that meets international standards. A fundamental weakness in providing legal protection to asylum-seekers and refugees in Turkey lies in the fact that at the current time there is no comprehensive refugee law, with the conduct of state officials governed by secondary legislation that can be changed without notification.

Difficulties in gaining access to asylum procedures at Turkey's borders, airports, and in detention mean that many people are expelled without having their asylum claims assessed, leaving them at risk of serious human rights abuses upon return to their countries. Registered asylum-seekers and recognized refugees are also increasingly forcibly returned from Turkey. Asylum-seekers' access to adequate housing, health services, and work is very limited. Bureaucratic problems also prevent refugee children from accessing secondary education.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/countries/europe/turkey

Can someone explain why Ben and Veya think that Shady was blaming refugees for the death of gay people?

I am not sure if 'blame' is the right word (Ben used it i just ran with it) but he is saying refugees should be punished for the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS

Really Can someone explain to me and Ben how the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS related to drowned refugees?
expect like i said 'gay refugees' But at the same time gay refugees would be punished for the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS under Shady and that is all sorts of fucked up

veya_victaous wrote:

Shady wrote:

I'm merely pointing out peoples discrimination & over reaction to the pictures of the drowned child in Turkey.

The images of people being chucked off a crane are just as disturbing as the child on the beach images.

I've tried to work out how you could possibly misinterpret my comments about holding the refugees responsible etc etc........But I can't.

The reaction to the dead children was an over reaction reinforced in some cases with discrimination.

But having said that,I do realize that we are all different & I tend not to over react or discriminate.

you are saying we should not feel sorry for refugees because of some completely unrelated death. How is it an over reaction? are you saying people should just ignore Drowned Children ...

HOW ARE YOU NOT BLAMING REFUGEES FOR THOSE DEATHS??
you are the very least saying every one should punish refugees because of video of homosexuals begin murdered.
WHY Shady? Why should we punish refugee children because the British, US and Australian forces etc created a power vacuum that allowed ISIS to Rise and commit atrocities?


You just showed that you will use Any excuse no matter how illogical an nonsensical in your persecution of refugees even when it has nothing at all to do with anything.

Your right it is not actually discrimination, Just straight up stupidity and hatred of refugees the term for that is persecution.

I can only conclude from your ridiculous answer that you have not read my post or more likely,you know that what I am saying is right but you cannot accept it because I said it.In other words you are attacking the poster & not the post............Grow up you stupid boy.

Your very first sentence says this,'you are saying we should not feel sorry for refugees because of some completely unrelated death.'.....

....Please show me Veya where I have said we shouldn't feel sorry for refugees.

veya_victaous wrote:I am not sure if 'blame' is the right word (Ben used it i just ran with it) but he is saying refugees should be punished for the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS

Really Can someone explain to me and Ben how the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS related to drowned refugees?
expect like i said 'gay refugees' But at the same time gay refugees would be punished for the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS under Shady and that is all sorts of fucked up

No, he's asking why the death of a child is more important than the deaths of gay people being thrown off buildings as a symbol of the refugee crisis.

veya_victaous wrote:I am not sure if 'blame' is the right word (Ben used it i just ran with it) but he is saying refugees should be punished for the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS

Really Can someone explain to me and Ben how the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS related to drowned refugees?
expect like i said 'gay refugees' But at the same time gay refugees would be punished for the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS under Shady and that is all sorts of fucked up

To understand this post,I tried standing on my head & reading it........it didn't work.

If you try reading my post in an calm orderly fashion instead of reading it whilst self flagellating,I'm sure that you will eventually understand it.

Shady wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:I am not sure if 'blame' is the right word (Ben used it i just ran with it) but he is saying refugees should be punished for the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS

Really Can someone explain to me and Ben how the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS related to drowned refugees?
expect like i said 'gay refugees' But at the same time gay refugees would be punished for the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS under Shady and that is all sorts of fucked up

To understand this post,I tried standing on my head & reading it........it didn't work.

If you try reading my post in an calm orderly fashion instead of reading it whilst self flagellating,I'm sure that you will eventually understand it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Shady wrote:

To understand this post,I tried standing on my head & reading it........it didn't work.

If you try reading my post in an calm orderly fashion instead of reading it whilst self flagellating,I'm sure that you will eventually understand it.

Good morning Raggs.

Shady wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Good morning Raggs.

Morning Shady. I don't know if I interpreted your post correctly, but how Ben and Veya reached the conclusion they did is a mystery to me.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Shady wrote:

Good morning Raggs.

Morning Shady. I don't know if I interpreted your post correctly, but how Ben and Veya reached the conclusion they did is a mystery to me.

Good morning Raggs.

Got to dash as me & the missus are going for coffee.But let me assure you of this....I am hugely sympathetic regarding the death of the child on the beach....No ifs no buts.

But I fail to see how that image is any worse than the numerous others of people being killed in Syria,Iraq & Libya.

I fail to see how the manner in which that child died is any worse than the other ways/methods in which people have died out there.

Regarding Veya,Ben & co,I fully expected twisted responses from them.And that's purely because they want to attack me instead of deal with my post properly & fairly......Same old routine.

Might see you later Raggs.

Shady wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:I am not sure if 'blame' is the right word (Ben used it i just ran with it) but he is saying refugees should be punished for the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS

Really Can someone explain to me and Ben how the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS related to drowned refugees?
expect like i said 'gay refugees' But at the same time gay refugees would be punished for the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS under Shady and that is all sorts of fucked up

To understand this post,I tried standing on my head & reading it........it didn't work.

If you try reading my post in an calm orderly fashion instead of reading it whilst self flagellating,I'm sure that you will eventually understand it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:I am not sure if 'blame' is the right word (Ben used it i just ran with it) but he is saying refugees should be punished for the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS

Really Can someone explain to me and Ben how the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS related to drowned refugees?
expect like i said 'gay refugees' But at the same time gay refugees would be punished for the deaths of gay men at the hands of ISIS under Shady and that is all sorts of fucked up

No, he's asking why the death of a child is more important than the deaths of gay people being thrown off buildings as a symbol of the refugee crisis.

that is a straw-man As no one is making that argument

there is however a biological reason why an image of a dead child is more impactful to the majority of adult than the image of a dead adult

Shady wrote:
I'm only part way through the thread Tommy & there is the usual over reactionary guff that I expected there would be.Me & my wife spent sometime chatting over this subject this morning & we agreed that the press & public reaction to the photographs & deaths of the children & their mother is disgustingly discriminatory to say the least.
So Discrimination is caring about Women and Children... good to see the red coat morals still exist  

Sure the deaths are tragic & pictures sad,but are the deaths any worse than the hundreds of homosexual guys who have been chucked off buildings,cranes & other towers in Syria? You are the only person i have seen suggest that is the case

Are the deaths somehow worse than the migrants who were trapped in a sinking vessel in transit from Libya during the summer? That's what my wife asked me & she says that over 50 women & children died together.  You are the only person i have seen suggest that is the case ALSO why the didn't you take pictures, you go on boats apparently  

Can someone confirm that for me? Over 50 women & children dead in one boat & in one go?

How come the deaths & images of those children are any worse than dozens of people drowning slowly in a sinking boat? You are the only person i have seen suggest that is the case

I'm glad that I don't discriminate like that. No just against women and children drowned on beaches        

Maybe i read it and went this shady bastard is posting the most ridiculous straw man arguments I have ever seen

And So PLEASE EXPLAIN
what the is the relationship between Drowned refugees and ISIS Murdering gay men???? other then the obvious fact that is going to create more refugees
Why are you even bringing it up expect to try and justify not helping anyone  

I had a thread recently where homosexuals was brought into it and when i pointed this out i was to 'shut the fuck up'

veya_victaous wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

No, he's asking why the death of a child is more important than the deaths of gay people being thrown off buildings as a symbol of the refugee crisis.

that is a straw-man As no one is making that argument

there is however a biological reason why an image of a dead child is more impactful to the majority of adult than the image of a dead adult

Dead bodies are all the same to me.First Algor Mortis then Rigor Mortis then Putrefaction.

Shady wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

that is a straw-man As no one is making that argument

there is however a biological reason why an image of a dead child is more impactful to the majority of adult than the image of a dead adult

Dead bodies are all the same to me.First Algor Mortis then Rigor Mortis then Putrefaction.

That was my feeling, kinda shady, when ISIL was doing those beheadings. A dead body is a dead body... You can be angry about the killing, or not...but who cares how?

veya_victaous wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

No, he's asking why the death of a child is more important than the deaths of gay people being thrown off buildings as a symbol of the refugee crisis.

that is a straw-man As no one is making that argument

there is however a biological reason why an image of a dead child is more impactful to the majority of adult than the image of a dead adult

Nobody claimed that anyone was making that point. It was a point which was raised by Shady. That's not a straw man.

In some ways, the power of the picture can be explained by its minimalism. “It’s a simple photograph that deals with an essential truth,” says Dimitri Beck, the editor of the photojournalism magazine Polka in France. “It’s not a sophisticated image, even in its framing, but the message is clear and direct: a kid has died and he’s being picked up like a washed-up piece of wood on the beach. There’s nothing more violent.”
Peter Bouckaert, Human Rights Watch’s emergencies director, was one of the first to draw attention to the photograph on Twitter and Facebook. “It’s, sadly, a very well-composed image showing a little toddler that we can all identify with, with his little sneakers and shorts on,” he tells TIME. “I think for a lot of the public, their first reaction is: ‘This could have been my child.’”
Bouckaert argues that the child’s ethnicity played a role in the image’s impact. “This is a child that looks a lot like an European child,” he says. “The week before, dozens of African kids washed up on the beaches of Libya and were photographed and it didn’t have the same impact. There is some ethnocentrism [in the] reaction to this image, certainly.”

http://time.com/4022765/aylan-kurdi-photo/

Raggamuffin wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

No, he's asking why the death of a child is more important than the deaths of gay people being thrown off buildings as a symbol of the refugee crisis.

that is a straw-man As no one is making that argument

there is however a biological reason why an image of a dead child is more impactful to the majority of adult than the image of a dead adult

Nobody claimed that anyone was making that point. It was a point which was raised by Shady. That's not a straw man.

Yes it is, who said it is more important?
no one
so who is he asking?  A STRAW MAN

the only person even suggesting that it is more important is Shady so they only person who can answer it Shady since he is the one that thinks that is the case.

veya_victaous wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nobody claimed that anyone was making that point. It was a point which was raised by Shady. That's not a straw man.

Yes it is, who said it is more important?
no one
so who is he asking?  A STRAW MAN

the only person even suggesting that it is more important is Shady so they only person who can answer it Shady since he is the one that thinks that is the case.

I meant nobody here. The press kind of claimed it, and so did the Government and members of the public.