Stitching-up claimants is all part of the job, says Jobcentre insider

by Guest Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:15 pm

First topic message reminder :

Last week Iain Duncan Smith met a whistle-blower who has worked for his Department for Work and Pensions for more than 20 years.

Giving the Secretary of State a dossier of evidence, the former Jobcentre Plus adviser told him of a “brutal and bullying” culture of “setting claimants up to fail”.

“The pressure to sanction customers was constant,” he said. “It led to people being stitched-up on a daily basis.”

The man wishes to be anonymous but gave his details to IDS, DWP minister Esther McVey and Neil Couling, Head of Jobcentre Plus, who also attended the meeting.

“We were constantly told ‘agitate the customer’ and that ‘any engagement with the customer is an opportunity to sanction’,” he told them.

Labour MP Debbie Abrahams, the member of the DWP Select Committee who set up the meeting, has renewed her call for an inquiry into inappropriate sanctioning.

“I am deeply concerned that sanctions are being used to create the illusion the Government is bringing down unemployment,” she said.

Sanctions pre-date the Coalition as a way of ensuring benefit claimants, who include the jobless and sick and disabled people on Employment Support Allowance, attend appointments and apply for jobs. But under the Tory-led Government, they have soared – to 897,690 a year from the most recent data.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/stitching-up-claimants-part-job-says-3537051

from May last year...but no better if not worse Now....

and you wonder why I consider those who work for this shameful organisation to be entirely without honour...

In fact come the revolution i would put them against the brick wall first...

IDS and his troupe of performing monkeys are merely self seeking low lifes

these people are traitors to their own.......

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:14 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

No comment on this KD...?
sure

People do put old TVs outside to be taken by whoever wants them ,wrong

people put out things for council uplift other wise its dumping (illegal ) if you take it its theft and you can be prosecuted (called theft by finding)

unless they put a note on it saying free to good home or such like

fridges and freezers tend to be put out because they are broken or in a unsafe/unhealty condition people tend to sell working ones that are still in good nick or give them to friends also when you pit a fridge or freezer out you are required to remove the door for safety reasons

agreed

as to your speakers once again theft i am afraid
i do understand your point however in reality your stealing when you remove stuff from the road side

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:16 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:bear in mind also that not everybody is "starting"....many job seekers these days have had jobs that paid well and had various benefits like pension and health care packages.....and some hvnt got time to "wait" .

the system need a kick up the arse...

Wait for what? If they had good jobs, they also had the chance to save up whilst they could.

see other reply...they DO ....NI

by Raggamuffin Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:16 pm

victorismyhero wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I would also suggest that anyone who has a job saves for a rainy day, and don't bother to tell me they can't. People spend money on silly things they don't really need just because they can.

they DO...ITS CALLED National insurance
DOH!!!!!!

11.5 % of everything earned I understand

Nooooooo! I mean save up so that if there's a problem with getting benefits, they have something to fall back on.

by Tommy Monk Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:17 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

No comment on this KD...?
sure

People do put old TVs outside to be taken by whoever wants them ,wrong

people put out things for council uplift other wise its dumping (illegal ) if you take it its theft and you can be prosecuted (called theft by finding)

fridges and freezers tend to be put out because they are broken or in a unsafe/unhealty condition people tend to sell working ones that are still in good nick or give them to friends also when you pit a fridge or freezer out you are required to remove the door for safety reasons

as to your speakers once again theft i am afraid
i do understand your point however in reality your stealing when you remove stuff from the road side

Wrong KD... stuff is left on peoples property at the end of path or drive way etc with signs on saying 'working, for anyone who wants it' etc... and I have always knocked and asked before collecting anything left out.

I must say, I haven't done it much, but mainly only because I don't want any of what I see left out... but I often do see stuff, and It's not left for the council, it is intended for people to have to use for free!!!

Maybe I Just live in a nice part of London with nice people!?

I left my old CRT tv outside and it went... got a cross trainer I'm thinking of putting outside for someone,anyone...

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:18 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
sure

People do put old TVs outside to be taken by whoever wants them ,wrong

people put out things for council uplift other wise its dumping (illegal ) if you take it its theft and you can be prosecuted (called theft by finding)

fridges and freezers tend to be put out because they are broken or in a unsafe/unhealty condition people tend to sell working ones that are still in good nick or give them to friends also when you pit a fridge or freezer out you are required to remove the door for safety reasons

as to your speakers once again theft i am afraid
i do understand your point however in reality your stealing when you remove stuff from the road side

Stealing it from whom? Whoever dumped it there? If they want it to be taken away properly, they should leave a note on it to say why it's there.

I think Tommy is very resourceful - the sign of a non-leftie.

Stealing from the council raggs and you cant really put stuff out on the street any more haven`t been able to do that for years stuff is put out is for council pick up (who also charge you for it )and has to be pre arranged regardless of any note
other wise you can be prosecuted for fly tipping or dumping

by Tommy Monk Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:22 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
sure

People do put old TVs outside to be taken by whoever wants them ,wrong

people put out things for council uplift other wise its dumping (illegal ) if you take it its theft and you can be prosecuted (called theft by finding)

fridges and freezers tend to be put out because they are broken or in a unsafe/unhealty condition people tend to sell working ones that are still in good nick or give them to friends also when you pit a fridge or freezer out you are required to remove the door for safety reasons

as to your speakers once again theft i am afraid
i do understand your point however in reality your stealing when you remove stuff from the road side

Stealing it from whom? Whoever dumped it there? If they want it to be taken away properly, they should leave a note on it to say why it's there.

I think Tommy is very resourceful - the sign of a non-leftie.

Thank you rags!!!

Laughing

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:22 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:

they DO...ITS CALLED National insurance
DOH!!!!!!

11.5 % of everything earned I understand

Nooooooo! I mean save up so that if there's a problem with getting benefits, they have something to fall back on.

but...there should BE no problems with getting benefits...should there....your statrement there proves the system is broken.

you pay into the system ..you expect to get out when needed....

i mean what happens if you pay into an insurance that wont pay out for the insured risk??????

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:24 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
sure

People do put old TVs outside to be taken by whoever wants them ,wrong

people put out things for council uplift other wise its dumping (illegal ) if you take it its theft and you can be prosecuted (called theft by finding)

fridges and freezers tend to be put out because they are broken or in a unsafe/unhealty condition people tend to sell working ones that are still in good nick or give them to friends also when you pit a fridge or freezer out you are required to remove the door for safety reasons

as to your speakers once again theft i am afraid
i do understand your point however in reality your stealing when you remove stuff from the road side

Wrong KD... stuff is left on peoples property at the end of path or drive way etc with signs on saying 'working, for anyone who wants it' etc... and I have always knocked and asked before collecting anything left out.

I must say, I haven't done it much, but mainly only because I don't want any of what I see left out... but I often do see stuff, and It's not left for the council, it is intended for people to have to use for free!!!

Maybe I Just live in a nice part of London with nice people!?

I left my old CRT tv outside and it went... got a cross trainer I'm thinking of putting outside for someone,anyone...

No tommy i am not wrong i wish you where right but your not
my mate Allan has been prosecuted twice for removing stuff from the kerb

Man arrested over vacuum cleaner taken from Chirnside Park hard rubbish

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/man-arrested-for-allegedly-stealing-vaccum-from-mooroolbark-rubbish/story-e6frf7kx-1226025817608

by Raggamuffin Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:26 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Stealing it from whom? Whoever dumped it there? If they want it to be taken away properly, they should leave a note on it to say why it's there.

I think Tommy is very resourceful - the sign of a non-leftie.
Stealing from the council raggs and you cant really put stuff out on the street any more haven`t been able to do that for years stuff is put out is for council pick up (who also charge you for it )and has to be pre arranged regardless of any note
other wise you can be prosecuted for fly tipping or dumping

Tommy just explained. People can leave things on their drive if they want to, and if they invite others to just take it, that's fine.

by Tommy Monk Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:31 pm

stuff is left on peoples property at the end of path or drive way etc with signs on saying 'working, for anyone who wants it' etc... and I have always knocked and asked before collecting anything left out.

Maybe that is the difference... it is on the owners property, with a sign saying working and for public to take, plus I've always knocked first just to make sure was ok!

I've only had the items previously mentioned but seen loads of stuff, leather sofas, cookers, tvs, desks and other furniture... loads of different stuff!

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:32 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:stuff is left on peoples property at the end of path or drive way etc with signs on saying 'working, for anyone who wants it' etc... and I have always knocked and asked before collecting anything left out.

Maybe that is the difference... it is on the owners property, with a sign saying working and for public to take, plus I've always knocked first just to make sure was ok!

I've only had the items previously mentioned but seen loads of stuff, leather sofas, cookers, tvs, desks and other furniture... loads of different stuff!

Yep seen that round here.....

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:33 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:stuff is left on peoples property at the end of path or drive way etc with signs on saying 'working, for anyone who wants it' etc... and I have always knocked and asked before collecting anything left out.

Maybe that is the difference... it is on the owners property, with a sign saying working and for public to take, plus I've always knocked first just to make sure was ok!

I've only had the items previously mentioned but seen loads of stuff, leather sofas, cookers, tvs, desks and other furniture... loads of different stuff!

on there property maybe that is different but as soon as it hits the "kerb" its the councils and you can be prosecuted if caught taking it as i say theft by finding

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:34 pm

Mind you round some areas here best way to get rid of big rubbish is to put a note on it saying £5 ...
some scrote will then be certain to "steal" it I got rid of a totally knackered and useless old cheapo saw bench just like that..it went overnight... Stitching-up claimants is all part of the job, says Jobcentre insider - Page 5 3489511464

Stitching-up claimants is all part of the job, says Jobcentre insider - Page 5 3489511464

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:36 pm

victorismyhero wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:stuff is left on peoples property at the end of path or drive way etc with signs on saying 'working, for anyone who wants it' etc... and I have always knocked and asked before collecting anything left out.

Maybe that is the difference... it is on the owners property, with a sign saying working and for public to take, plus I've always knocked first just to make sure was ok!

I've only had the items previously mentioned but seen loads of stuff, leather sofas, cookers, tvs, desks and other furniture... loads of different stuff!

Yep seen that round here.....

we where talking about this a few weeks ago where we not you have a guy that collects stuff as i recall and the police are down his neck so often he gives out receipts for stuff he picks up same as my mate does

by Tommy Monk Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:40 pm

Don't know where you Are roughly vic, but is regular round my way, you could easily deck out a whole flat from nothing pretty quick if you drove around for a few days looking...

I took some stuff down the dump the other week, and some of The stuff being thrown away there is surprisingly new and good quality looking... a lot of time it is good shit being thrown away but people just don't want to hold onto it without using it as they got new, and can't be bothered trying to waste time trying to sell it for not a lot.

I'm from the old 'make do and mend' mentality rags!!!

Laughing

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:42 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Don't know where you Are roughly vic, but is regular round my way, you could easily deck out a whole flat from nothing pretty quick if you drove around for a few days looking...

I took some stuff down the dump the other week, and some of The stuff being thrown away there is surprisingly new and good quality looking... a lot of time it is good shit being thrown away but people just don't want to hold onto it without using it as they got new, and can't be bothered trying to waste time trying to sell it for not a lot.

I'm from the old 'make do and mend' mentality rags!!!

yep me too

by Tommy Monk Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:44 pm

korban dallas wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:

Yep seen that round here.....
we where talking about this a few weeks ago where we not you have a guy that collects stuff as i recall and the police are down his neck so often he gives out receipts for stuff he picks up same as my mate does

I know someone like that, he is always actively looking for the 'throw outs', and finding them, and always known to be selling this stuff on, the police think he's a burglar!!!

by Tommy Monk Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:45 pm

victorismyhero wrote:Mind you round some areas here best way to get rid of big rubbish is to put a note on it saying £5 ...
some scrote will then be certain to "steal" it I got rid of a totally knackered and useless old cheapo saw bench just like that..it went overnight...

Like it!!!

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:48 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
we where talking about this a few weeks ago where we not you have a guy that collects stuff as i recall and the police are down his neck so often he gives out receipts for stuff he picks up same as my mate does

I know someone like that, he is always actively looking for the 'throw outs', and finding them, and always known to be selling this stuff on, the police think he's a burglar!!!

its the theft of copper wire and railways that forced the government to tighten up the laws regarding this kind of thing
and why a lot of "scrap merchants and rag and bone men are scarce now it cost to much for the paper work

Any way i have to be up at 4 so night all

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:49 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Don't know where you Are roughly vic, but is regular round my way, you could easily deck out a whole flat from nothing pretty quick if you drove around for a few days looking...

I took some stuff down the dump the other week, and some of The stuff being thrown away there is surprisingly new and good quality looking... a lot of time it is good shit being thrown away but people just don't want to hold onto it without using it as they got new, and can't be bothered trying to waste time trying to sell it for not a lot.

I'm from the old 'make do and mend' mentality rags!!!

years ago, when such things could still be done, I got an oak table and 6 matching chairs from the local tip for the grand sum of £10 into the charity box...

took it home, refinished it, reset the joints on the chairs...and flogged it for £350...

you have seen samples of my work on here....this table came up a treat ...all for a bit of glue and plenty of elbow grease and wax
in fact it was "as new" and sold as such ("restored to as new condition" as a matter of fact)

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:50 pm

korban dallas wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:

Yep seen that round here.....
we where talking about this a few weeks ago where we not you have a guy that collects stuff as i recall and the police are down his neck so often he gives out receipts for stuff he picks up same as my mate does

yup thats right Korban

by Raggamuffin Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:52 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Don't know where you Are roughly vic, but is regular round my way, you could easily deck out a whole flat from nothing pretty quick if you drove around for a few days looking...

I took some stuff down the dump the other week, and some of The stuff being thrown away there is surprisingly new and good quality looking... a lot of time it is good shit being thrown away but people just don't want to hold onto it without using it as they got new, and can't be bothered trying to waste time trying to sell it for not a lot.

I'm from the old 'make do and mend' mentality rags!!!

See, that's the way to do it Tommy - good for you. Laughing

by Tommy Monk Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:57 pm

Night KD... and victor... is such a shame now that so much good (potentially good) stuff is just going to be crushed instead...

Heard there are a couple of web sites for picking up/getting rid of stuff for free...

'Freecycle' I think is one... and maybe "gumtree' too (?).

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:04 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Night KD... and victor... is such a shame now that so much good (potentially good) stuff is just going to be crushed instead...

Heard there are a couple of web sites for picking up/getting rid of stuff for free...

'Freecycle' I think is one... and maybe "gumtree' too (?).

Its a bloody crying shame tommy.....as well as being criminally wasteful...

I wish our local tip WOULD sell stuff, theres a small fortune in good wood furniture being thrown out, that could be easily refurbished by someone like me...and come out "as good as new"

as i said that table was some good few years back when every penny counted....nowadays I'd be more inclined to make much less profit and sell to those who need stuff at a reasonable price...or indeed donate some items to those who are in desperate need....

as it is some of the stuff I make is sold via a vets and the local clay range

in both cases 20% of sales goes to either the vets own inhouse "unwaged" charity or to the air ambulance at the clay range....

by Tommy Monk Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:11 pm

Bloody good on you!!!

I have heard that charity shops are turning down stuff cos they ain't got the space for it all... and if you think about it, if you were to try and collect it all, xou would be having to pay out for place for storage and costs in moving in all about etc... but I know for sure that someone can make a definate few quid by pursuing some of this stuff before it gets to dump and selling it on...!

by Tommy Monk Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:28 pm

And the tip won't sell stuff now probably because of EU rules of some sort, health and safety of some sort no doubt...

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:31 pm

no doubt bloody E.U.

I want to make some items that could, just possibly be classified as toys....

my god the hoops you have to go through Rolling Eyes

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:33 pm

and its NOT all safety (which of course is important in toys) 90% of it is the bloody paperwork involved...

Its Utterly wrong that a small one man business is forced to keep exactly the same records as a big multimillion pound corporation.

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:35 pm

If ever you want nightmares...google "the toy safety directive"

by Tommy Monk Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:37 pm

And Nems, was hoping you would elaborate how you were only left with £40 a week for 3 people...?

My brother has well paid work but I remember a few years ago that he had said he had built up so many out goings every month that after all his direct debits and other money went out he was only left with about £100 a month...(I think that was after counting food and booze costs though!!!)

Almost all of his outgoings were paying mortgage and other debts/loans/cards etc...

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:47 pm

This is ONE area where the TTIP agreement will benefit me and hundreds of other small businesses....

we (europe) will have to accept the american definitions and standards....

for instance

I have trouble sourcing plywood that meets BS EN 71.3 (chemical safety) since many suppliers say "suitable for toys" but cannot provide the needed analysis Rolling Eyes

which leave sth onus on me to get one.
NOW the pice for this is about £70...which is insignificant if you are buying 1000 sheets, but I can only realistically buy 2 or 3 sheets at once...so it makes the price too high

NOW

the american standard is to (corectly) assume that timber OR plywood made from virgin timber and what is known as E1 glue is by its nature safe and suitable.

Now it is a fact i can prove that virgin timber..even if grown in heavily contaminated land will NOT contain the named chemicals in amounts greater than permitted

so why the hell should I have to test?????????????????????????????

some one...
anyone
?????

by Tommy Monk Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:53 pm

TTIP is bad for many other similar reasons of adverse quality and assurance on all sorts.

Most of EU quality standards are because of British standards being so high, and wouldn't be lowered if we left the EU anyway, so should remain high.

I'm sure an individual anomaly could be addressed without folding to shit USA standards throughout.

But another topic for another thread I would think!

by Guest Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:58 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:TTIP is bad for many other similar reasons of adverse quality and assurance on all sorts.

Most of EU quality standards are because of British standards being so high, and wouldn't be lowered if we left the EU anyway, so should remain high.

I'm sure an individual anomaly could be addressed without folding to shit USA standards throughout.

you would think so but big business doesnt want it adressed...it suits them becasue it hampers SME's...

But another topic for another thread I would think!

by Tommy Monk Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:14 pm

That the EU and TTIP support...

Out the EU!!!

by Irn Bru Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:55 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:How much is enough to live on?

It's all relative to how much you want to spend every week.

Want to spend?
Or should it be how much is a necessity to spend?
How much is not a need or requirment to spend?
Without millions in debt and now a time more than ever with people living beyond their means, people clearly need to have debt and finnancial advice. Its first and foremost important that people are able to balance their books before their debt spirals out of control.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2869771/British-households-living-means-time-20-years-OBR-warns.html

Didge, that was part of my point... some want to have a luxury life style with loads of expensive perks but then complain that they don't have enough money to live on.

I remember on another recent thread, handy Andy I think it was, was claiminp that a reduction in benefits would mean people would suffer by not being able to eat out at restaurants or buy expensive designer goods any more!!!

Surely these privileges should only be for those working and earning good money anyway!!!???

For some people a luxury might just be a trip to the seaside with the family or a night at the cinema. Just fairly basic stuff like that so Andy was just making the point that taking money out the system for around 13m million people would reduce demand on items resulting in consumer consuption dropping and the economy flatlining on the back of Osborne's austerity programme.

Where did he say expensive designer goods?

by Irn Bru Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:21 pm

I never thought I would see the day when people would be suggesting that for people who have been thrown out of work through no fault of their own that they should be scouring the streets to pick up other people's rubbish as a means to get what they need or wear other people's old clothes that they pick up at jumble sales to at least look presentable and dignified. There is no dignity in that and they will be classed as scroungers and their children ridiculed as benefit junkies just for their parents being out of work.

We're better than that surely. Britain is one of the richest countries in the world and yet people come out with this nonsense whilst surrounded by banksters, fraudsters, tax avoiders and off-shore money stashers who don't pay their way and yet hardly any of them have been prosecuted yet benefit sanctions for a lot less than that are imposed on people daily for the reasons stated in the OP.

Get a grip FGS.

Victor has posted the figures for for what unemplyment benefit and jobseekers allowances cost the welfare state and it's tiny in relation to the overall welfare budget

by Guest Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:25 pm

Never has this been more true, or more apt to what has been suggested on here:

“Poverty is not caused by men and women getting married; it's not caused by machinery; it's not caused by "over-production"; it's not caused by drink or laziness; and it's not caused by "over-population". It's caused by Private Monopoly. That is the present system. They have monopolized everything that it is possible to monopolize; they have got the whole earth, the minerals in the earth and the streams that water the earth. The only reason they have not monopolized the daylight and the air is that it is not possible to do it. If it were possible to construct huge gasometers and to draw together and compress within them the whole of the atmosphere, it would have been done long ago, and we should have been compelled to work for them in order to get money to buy air to breathe. And if that seemingly impossible thing were accomplished tomorrow, you would see thousands of people dying for want of air - or of the money to buy it - even as now thousands are dying for want of the other necessities of life. You would see people going about gasping for breath, and telling each other that the likes of them could not expect to have air to breathe unless the had the money to pay for it. Most of you here, for instance, would think and say so. Even as you think at present that it's right for so few people to own the Earth, the Minerals and the Water, which are all just as necessary as is the air. In exactly the same spirit as you now say: "It's Their Land," "It's Their Water," "It's Their Coal," "It's Their Iron," so you would say "It's Their Air," "These are their gasometers, and what right have the likes of us to expect them to allow us to breathe for nothing?" And even while he is doing this the air monopolist will be preaching sermons on the Brotherhood of Man; he will be dispensing advice on "Christian Duty" in the Sunday magazines; he will give utterance to numerous more or less moral maxims for the guidance of the young. And meantime, all around, people will be dying for want of some of the air that he will have bottled up in his gasometers. And when you are all dragging out a miserable existence, gasping for breath or dying for want of air, if one of your number suggests smashing a hole in the side of one of th gasometers, you will all fall upon him in the name of law and order, and after doing your best to tear him limb from limb, you'll drag him, covered with blood, in triumph to the nearest Police Station and deliver him up to "justice" in the hope of being given a few half-pounds of air for your trouble.”
― Robert Tressell, The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists

by Guest Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:30 pm

Irn Bru wrote:I never thought I would see the day when people would be suggesting that for people who have been thrown out of work through no fault of their own that they should be scouring the streets to pick up other people's rubbish as a means to get what they need or wear other people's old clothes that they pick up at jumble sales to at least look presentable and dignified. There is no dignity in that and they will be classed as scroungers and their children ridiculed as benefit junkies just for their parents being out of work.

We're better than that surely. Britain is one of the richest countries in the world and yet people come out with this nonsense whilst surrounded by banksters, fraudsters, tax avoiders and off-shore money stashers who don't pay their way and yet hardly any of them have been prosecuted yet benefit sanctions for a lot less than that are imposed on people daily for the reasons stated in the OP.

Get a grip FGS.

Victor has posted the figures for for what unemplyment benefit and jobseekers allowances cost the welfare state and it's tiny in relation to the overall welfare budget

Talk about a whopping over exaggeration of all people out of work.
I do not think people have an issue with those actively seeking work and want to work.
What people take issue with is those who do not and will do their up most to stay on benefits with to the point of just getting employment to be sacked shortly afterwards to continue receiving benefits.
So yeah get a grip and understand that over 8 million people are in debt in the first place and in many cases by their own poor management of their finance's. What people need to start to understand is that they do not need the latest IPod or phone and to live within their means.

by Guest Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:33 pm

UK unemployment rises for first time in two years

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33535114

Two days ago, obviously running out of part time and zero hours jobs.

by Raggamuffin Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:44 pm

Irn Bru wrote:I never thought I would see the day when people would be suggesting that for people who have been thrown out of work through no fault of their own that they should be scouring the streets to pick up other people's rubbish as a means to get what they need or wear other people's old clothes that they pick up at jumble sales to at least look presentable and dignified. There is no dignity in that and they will be classed as scroungers and their children ridiculed as benefit junkies just for their parents being out of work.

We're better than that surely. Britain is one of the richest countries in the world and yet people come out with this nonsense whilst surrounded by banksters, fraudsters, tax avoiders and off-shore money stashers who don't pay their way and yet hardly any of them have been prosecuted yet benefit sanctions for a lot less than that are imposed on people daily for the reasons stated in the OP.

Get a grip FGS.

Victor has posted the figures for for what unemplyment benefit and jobseekers allowances cost the welfare state and it's tiny in relation to the overall welfare budget

I simply can't understand your aversion to jumbles sales or the recycling of goods that others no longer need or use. Charity shops are booming, so clearly a lot of people do like second hand goods. People buy far too much new stuff anyway, and then get paranoid about it in case it gets damaged. Laughing

by Irn Bru Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:48 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:I never thought I would see the day when people would be suggesting that for people who have been thrown out of work through no fault of their own that they should be scouring the streets to pick up other people's rubbish as a means to get what they need or wear other people's old clothes that they pick up at jumble sales to at least look presentable and dignified. There is no dignity in that and they will be classed as scroungers and their children ridiculed as benefit junkies just for their parents being out of work.

We're better than that surely. Britain is one of the richest countries in the world and yet people come out with this nonsense whilst surrounded by banksters, fraudsters, tax avoiders and off-shore money stashers who don't pay their way and yet hardly any of them have been prosecuted yet benefit sanctions for a lot less than that are imposed on people daily for the reasons stated in the OP.

Get a grip FGS.

Victor has posted the figures for for what unemplyment benefit and jobseekers allowances cost the welfare state and it's tiny in relation to the overall welfare budget

Talk about a whopping over exaggeration of all people out of work.
I do not think people have an issue with those actively seeking work and want to work.
What people take issue with is those who do not and will do their up most to stay on benefits with to the point of just getting employment to be sacked shortly afterwards to continue receiving benefits.
So yeah get a grip and understand that over 8 million people are in debt in the first place and in many cases by their own poor management of their finance's. What people need to start to understand is that they do not need the latest IPod or phone and to live within their means.

It isn't an over exageration if those actively seeking work are thrown into the same pot as all those that you suggest are the scroungers and don't want a job. What are the figures for that - do you have them?
And here yu are suggesting that the one's that are the scroungers are the one's wanting the Ipods etc. Where is the data for that?

You actually missed the whole point and never said a dickie about the banksters and all the others who don't pay their way. That's the people that ruined the economy and who Mark Cairney said are still playing on the same golf courses as if nothing has changed.

And I saw your little pearl of wisdom where you were being critical of the work ethic of some people. Well coming from you who spends almost the entire day on here instead of focussing on devoting your time to your employer that is absolutely priceles.

Oh, on the subject of golf - not today with the MD then?

by Irn Bru Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:49 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:I never thought I would see the day when people would be suggesting that for people who have been thrown out of work through no fault of their own that they should be scouring the streets to pick up other people's rubbish as a means to get what they need or wear other people's old clothes that they pick up at jumble sales to at least look presentable and dignified. There is no dignity in that and they will be classed as scroungers and their children ridiculed as benefit junkies just for their parents being out of work.

We're better than that surely. Britain is one of the richest countries in the world and yet people come out with this nonsense whilst surrounded by banksters, fraudsters, tax avoiders and off-shore money stashers who don't pay their way and yet hardly any of them have been prosecuted yet benefit sanctions for a lot less than that are imposed on people daily for the reasons stated in the OP.

Get a grip FGS.

Victor has posted the figures for for what unemplyment benefit and jobseekers allowances cost the welfare state and it's tiny in relation to the overall welfare budget

I simply can't understand your aversion to jumbles sales or the recycling of goods that others no longer need or use. Charity shops are booming, so clearly a lot of people do like second hand goods. People buy far too much new stuff anyway, and then get paranoid about it in case it gets damaged.

No Rags, you don't understand it which is a pity but there you go.

by Raggamuffin Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:55 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I simply can't understand your aversion to jumbles sales or the recycling of goods that others no longer need or use. Charity shops are booming, so clearly a lot of people do like second hand goods. People buy far too much new stuff anyway, and then get paranoid about it in case it gets damaged.

No Rags, you don't understand it which is a pity but there you go.

Why is it a pity? That implies there's something wrong with being a bargain basement sort of person.

Thank about second hand cars or second hand furniture (or even antique furniture). It's all been owned by someone else previously. Do you think people should be ashamed of wearing a jumper which was second hand? I don't - I'd be well impressed if someone was wearing a fab jumper they found at a jumble sale.

by Guest Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:56 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

Talk about a whopping over exaggeration of all people out of work.
I do not think people have an issue with those actively seeking work and want to work.
What people take issue with is those who do not and will do their up most to stay on benefits with to the point of just getting employment to be sacked shortly afterwards to continue receiving benefits.
So yeah get a grip and understand that over 8 million people are in debt in the first place and in many cases by their own poor management of their finance's. What people need to start to understand is that they do not need the latest IPod or phone and to live within their means.

It isn't an over exaggeration if those actively seeking work are thrown into the same pot as all those that you suggest are the scroungers and don't want a job. What are the figures for that - do you have them?
And here yu are suggesting that the one's that are the scroungers are the one's wanting the Ipods etc. Where is the data for that?

You actually missed the whole point and never said a dickie about the banksters and all the others who don't pay their way. That's the people that ruined the economy and who Mark Cairney said are still playing on the same golf courses as if nothing has changed.

And I saw your little pearl of wisdom where you were being critical of the work ethic of some people. Well coming from you who spends almost the entire day on here instead of focussing on devoting your time to your employer that is absolutely priceles.

Oh, on the subject of golf - not today with the MD then?

Its a whopping over exaggeration based on your opinion and not reality or evidence. The reality is yes they do get lumped in with those who are scroungers, which the later of there is far more of. As people actively seeking work will in time find work. What has the bankers not paying their way got to do with those not actively seeking work?

Fuck all.

Is it wrong they are not paying their way? Yes, but it does not mean we should revert to a benefit system that under labour created a poor work ethos that benefited people to stay out of work than in work. No I am stating as a fact that millions of people are in debt because the vast majority live beyond their means because many want to have the latest Ipod or gadgets for example

My job is not under threat because I get my work done, I do not turn up late or have many sick days. Poor deflection as per usual and your obsession and jealousy at my excellent job. Look its not my fault you are not in the know on this where I know HR managers who employ people and the same story is repeated about a set amount of people who come from the unemployment office. You may not like these facts but these facts are true that a certain element in this country has no intention or gives a fuck about working. Its time you left wingers opened your eyes up to the reality in this country. I mean why do you think we have so many immigrants and migrants here? This is because many people living here are and have been unwilling to do work they believe is beneath them. Under Labour there was a massive influx of immigrants because people living here would not take up work. These same people who now moan about immigration. If the jobs were not available they would not be able to stay and work. Not having a go at immigrants either just pointing out the facts

by Tommy Monk Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:09 pm

Beggars can't be choosers!!!

JSA is there to provide basic food and other basic requirements, not provide someone with the means to carry on as if they were working and earning good money.

Many people are kicked out of work entirely for their own fault and many others have never worked or have no intention of working... and while the state will give them enough money to live a great life then they won't ever bother either!!!

by Irn Bru Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:28 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

Talk about a whopping over exaggeration of all people out of work.
I do not think people have an issue with those actively seeking work and want to work.
What people take issue with is those who do not and will do their up most to stay on benefits with to the point of just getting employment to be sacked shortly afterwards to continue receiving benefits.
So yeah get a grip and understand that over 8 million people are in debt in the first place and in many cases by their own poor management of their finance's. What people need to start to understand is that they do not need the latest IPod or phone and to live within their means.

It isn't an over exaggeration if those actively seeking work are thrown into the same pot as all those that you suggest are the scroungers and don't want a job. What are the figures for that - do you have them?
And here yu are suggesting that the one's that are the scroungers are the one's wanting the Ipods etc. Where is the data for that?

You actually missed the whole point and never said a dickie about the banksters and all the others who don't pay their way. That's the people that ruined the economy and who Mark Cairney said are still playing on the same golf courses as if nothing has changed.

And I saw your little pearl of wisdom where you were being critical of the work ethic of some people. Well coming from you who spends almost the entire day on here instead of focussing on devoting your time to your employer that is absolutely priceles.

Oh, on the subject of golf - not today with the MD then?

Its a whopping over exaggeration based on your opinion and not reality or evidence. The reality is yes they do get lumped in with those who are scroungers, which the later of there is far more of. As people actively seeking work will in time find work. What has the bankers not paying their way got to do with those not actively seeking work?

Fuck all.

Is it wrong they are not paying their way? Yes, but it does not mean we should revert to a benefit system that under labour created a poor work ethos that benefited people to stay out of work than in work. No I am stating as a fact that millions of people are in debt because the vast majority live beyond their means because many want to have the latest Ipod or gadgets for example

My job is not under threat because I get my work done, I do not turn up late or have many sick days. Poor deflection as per usual and your obsession and jealousy at my excellent job. Look its not my fault you are not in the know on this where I know HR managers who employ people and the same story is repeated about a set amount of people who come from the unemployment office. You may not like these facts but these facts are true that a certain element in this country has no intention or gives a fuck about working. Its time you left wingers opened your eyes up to the reality in this country. I mean why do you think we have so many immigrants and migrants here? This is because many people living here are and have been unwilling to do work they believe is beneath them. Under Labour there was a massive influx of immigrants because people living here would not take up work. These same people who now moan about immigration. If the jobs were not available they would not be able to stay and work. Not having a go at immigrants either just pointing out the facts

Where is your evidence that the scroungers are the vast majority of those claiming benefits? You obviously don't realise that the vast majority of people on benefits are actually in work so that's a bit of information for you to take in.

I never said that the Bankers not paying their way had anything to do with those not actively seeking work? I said that the bankers and the fraudsters etc. were not paying their way leaving those that had nothing to do with the financial crisis that caused all this austerity to pay the price whilst they escape Scot free.

Where did Labour create a poor work ethos? If you knew what you were talking about you would know that the welfare bill under Labour went down because the jobs available then were decent jobs paying decent wages.
Right, show me these facts that millions of people are in debt because the vast majority live beyond their means because many want to have the latest Ipod or gadgets for example and not because they lost their jobs or have had tro take on work with less hours and lower pay. And spare me stuff from the likes of the Daily Mail and show me an academic study that backs up what you claim are facts and not some rhetoric by a newspaper hack.

You get your work done and still you spend an absolutely massive amount of time on here throughout the day which shows that you are a freeloader who can't be honest enough to offer up your spare capacity to your employer to go and do something else or help out a colleague. There is always work to be done in every business whether it's sweeping the floors or painting a fence or washing the MD's car. Perhaps you feel stuff like that is beneath you and your pay grade much like the unemployed that you are stereotyping as doing just that. You are part of the problem not the solution and no role model for anyone coming from the job centre.

And of course there are people that are stuck on benefits, no-one has ever denied that there wasn't. I'm just asking you for the numbers that are in that category.

And I'm sure the benefits you were entitled to for yout 5 kids were a great help or did you not apply for them or collect the money that was available for all families with children?

I did notice your whimpering that the bankers and the fraudsters are not paying their way but that's just about all it was. Whimpering about them whilst suggestions fly around that people should pick up rubbish thrown out as means of obtaining some of what they need to have some form of decent life and dignity. It's disgusting and typical of what can be expected from a cap doffer, a forelock tugger and a freeloader who cons his employer and his colleagues.

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you but I was busy and now I have to get on a deal with some real live people so I'll' catch up with you later when you complete your round of golf with the MD Smile

by Guest Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:09 pm

Point 1) Already explained how, please read back so I do not have to waste time repeating.

Point 2) Again no relevance to the thread on the point of those seeking and not seeking work, just a woeful deflection.

Point 3) Evidence has already been posted on the thread with thosse in debt, again please read through the thread instead of skipping everything. Yes there was a poor work ethos that was created under Labour where it benefitted more people to stay on benefits than it did to work. This again is proven by the fact we had mass immigration where they could stay because they were able to take up work where those who lived here did not.

Point 4) More deflection from the debate and again no relevance just proving your obsession with me, sorry I do not bat that way, if you are clearly single go out and pull someone, but I advice plastic surgery first to vastly improve your looks. Also a course in people skills so you get past saying hello to someone you fancy and who is not replusled by your looks.

Point 5) Again no relevance to the debate in regards to my children, more deflection again.

Point 6) Again no rleevance about fruadsters or bankers where you are not trying again to deflect the debate with them.

Point 7) You never addressed any of my points, plenty of deflections with your woeful attempts to ask me out on a date, all of which has no relevance to the debate. Repeating twice about bankers and fruadsters that has no relevance here.

So again:

Its a whopping over exaggeration based on your opinion and not reality or evidence. The reality is yes they do get lumped in with those who are scroungers, which the later of there is far more of. As people actively seeking work will in time find work. What has the bankers not paying their way got to do with those not actively seeking work?

Fuck all.

Is it wrong they are not paying their way? Yes, but it does not mean we should revert to a benefit system that under labour created a poor work ethos that benefited people to stay out of work than in work. No I am stating as a fact that millions of people are in debt because the vast majority live beyond their means because many want to have the latest Ipod or gadgets for example

My job is not under threat because I get my work done, I do not turn up late or have many sick days. Poor deflection as per usual and your obsession and jealousy at my excellent job. Look its not my fault you are not in the know on this where I know HR managers who employ people and the same story is repeated about a set amount of people who come from the unemployment office. You may not like these facts but these facts are true that a certain element in this country has no intention or gives a fuck about working. Its time you left wingers opened your eyes up to the reality in this country. I mean why do you think we have so many immigrants and migrants here? This is because many people living here are and have been unwilling to do work they believe is beneath them. Under Labour there was a massive influx of immigrants because people living here would not take up work. These same people who now moan about immigration. If the jobs were not available they would not be able to stay and work. Not having a go at immigrants either just pointing out the facts

by eddie Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:00 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Rubbish sassy... people who are sick or disabled don't have to go to the job centre, they register an ESA claim over the phone and support their medical problems with doctors medical certificates.

Then they get money authorised and paid out to them very quickly.

Do they????

My dad worked all his life and got cancer at the age of 63.
He tried to claim what he was owed (my mum was working part time but they were entitled to some sick pay)

They stalled and stalled.

Five months later my mum got a call to say that he would be getting his benefit.
It was too late, he'd already died.

by Raggamuffin Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:03 pm

eddie wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Rubbish sassy... people who are sick or disabled don't have to go to the job centre, they register an ESA claim over the phone and support their medical problems with doctors medical certificates.

Then they get money authorised and paid out to them very quickly.

Do they????

My dad worked all his life and got cancer at the age of 63.
He tried to claim what he was owed (my mum was working part time but they were entitled to some sick pay)

They stalled and stalled.

Five months later my mum got a call to say that he would be getting his benefit.
It was too late, he'd already died.

As I said before, someone I know got it very quickly with virtually no check up at the time. Perhaps it differs between different areas?

by Tommy Monk Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:36 pm

I am only saying how the system works now and has done for recent couple years or so and to the best of my knowledge.

I do know that once they have all the information and evidence and relevant forms they need etc, then claims are processed and allowed very quickly and payments are made.

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