Stitching-up claimants is all part of the job, says Jobcentre insider

First topic message reminder :

Last week Iain Duncan Smith met a whistle-blower who has worked for his Department for Work and Pensions for more than 20 years.

Giving the Secretary of State a dossier of evidence, the former Jobcentre Plus adviser told him of a “brutal and bullying” culture of “setting claimants up to fail”.

“The pressure to sanction customers was constant,” he said. “It led to people being stitched-up on a daily basis.”

The man wishes to be anonymous but gave his details to IDS, DWP minister Esther McVey and Neil Couling, Head of Jobcentre Plus, who also attended the meeting.

“We were constantly told ‘agitate the customer’ and that ‘any engagement with the customer is an opportunity to ­sanction’,” he told them.

Labour MP Debbie Abrahams, the member of the DWP Select Committee who set up the meeting, has renewed her call for an inquiry into inappropriate sanctioning.

“I am deeply concerned that sanctions are being used to create the illusion the Government is bringing down unemployment,” she said.

Sanctions pre-date the Coalition as a way of ensuring benefit claimants, who include the jobless and sick and disabled people on Employment Support Allowance, attend appointments and apply for jobs. But under the Tory-led Government, they have soared – to 897,690 a year from the most recent data.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/stitching-up-claimants-part-job-says-3537051


from May last year...but no better if not worse Now....


and you wonder why I consider those who work for this shameful organisation to be entirely without honour...

In fact come the revolution i would put them against the brick wall first...

IDS and his troupe of performing monkeys are merely self seeking low lifes

these people are traitors to their own.......

I see you have just changed your answer from 'mind your own business' to a post claiming she was on a sickness benefit...



But however... just like people on JSA are expected to pay for their own job seeking activities and traveling out of their £73 a week, people on other sickness benefits and disability etc, who also get more money, are expected to pay for their own travelling costs too out of that money!!!


Some will even qualify for a free car paid for by the state!!!

victorismyhero wrote:I notice tommy has nothing to say about this

what about the REAL point

as progressive as letting the top earners avoid paying their fair share

which would render the argument about benefits entirely moot.

since we would have enough for the benefits bill, pay off the national debt AND a bit left over for a party


I assume he approves of these parasites robbing the rest of us (and especially the poor of this country ) blind....

Exactly, if those bastards paid what they should we would be able to look after those that need looking after without a problem.

And victor... of course I am in favour of higher earners paying correct taxes and not using loopholes to avoid this.


As I am in favour of every corporation or business operating here in UK to have a UK office to be liable for all UK trades and tax on this... not base their head office elsewhere to avoid paying taxes generated in UK from UK business.

Tommy Monk wrote:I see you have just changed your answer from 'mind your own business' to a post claiming she was on a sickness benefit...



But however... just like people on JSA are expected to pay for their own job seeking activities and traveling out of their £73 a week, people on other sickness benefits and disability etc, who also get more money, are expected to pay for their own travelling costs too out of that money!!!


Some will even qualify for a free car paid for by the state!!!

She's dead Tommy, so I suggest you shut the fuck up.

They don't get a free car, if it is essential for them to have a car, very often so they can actually work, it is taken out of their DLA. Only there is no DLA anymore, and many disabled people have had the scheme stopped, their cars taken away, and they can no long work.

Well I don't know. Someone I know has recently got a car through DLA or whatever.

Raggamuffin wrote:Well I don't know. Someone I know has recently got a car through DLA or whatever.

Those who were on DLA and had not yet been assessed for PIP (which is running very far beind) still qualify, however, there are many who have had it taken away because they have been put on PIP.

We are talking about benefits sassy... you can't start volunteering information about relatives as part of your arguments but then tell others that they cannot reply about those arguments.


That is just a twisted tactic of stifling the debate and an underhand way of trying to 'win'.


Quite desperate as well I might add...

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Well I don't know. Someone I know has recently got a car through DLA or whatever.

Those who were on DLA and had not yet been assessed for PIP (which is running very far beind) still qualify, however, there are many who have had it taken away because they have been put on PIP.

Crazy system really. As I said, the people I know who are on some kind of disability benefit are perfectly able to afford to live quite well, and yet we hear about others who are not.

Raggamuffin wrote:Well I don't know. Someone I know has recently got a car through DLA or whatever.

Quite right, still happening!

Motability cars taken away from one in three DLA to PIP claimants

Research carried out by ITV News has shown that over one in three disabled people with a Motability car has had it taken away from them when they transferred from disability living allowance (DLA) to personal independence payment (PIP).

According to ITV’s research, out of 8,000 Motability car users who have been assessed for PIP, 3,000 have been found not to qualify for the enhanced rate of the Pip mobility component and thus lost their car.

According to Motability, no one with a terminal illness has had their Motability car taken from them and only three of the cars so far were adapted for a wheelchair.

The DWP gave ITV a statement arguing that:

“We have worked closely with Motability to ensure that support is available to people leaving the Scheme following PIP reassessment.

"Motability have agreed that the majority of people will be eligible for a one-off payment of £2,000, which will help ensure their mobility needs continue to be met.”

In reality, an award of just £2,000 is extremely unlikely to be a long-term solution for people with very restricted mobility.

When, in December 2012, the DWP produced their final version of the PIP points system they suddenly revealed that the maximum distance you need to be able to walk to qualify for enhanced rate mobility had been slashed from 50 metres to 20 metres.

The DWP tried to argue that because issues such as safely, reliably and repeatedly and in a reasonable time period would have to be taken into account, then the reduction in the walking distance would have limited effect on claimants.

The figures from Motability reveal just how untrue that claim was.

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/3041-motability-cars-taken-away-from-one-in-three-dla-to-pip-claimants

Disabled people get a free bus pass and discounts on rail travel.

Tommy Monk wrote:Disabled people get a free bus pass and discounts on rail travel.

not much use if you cant walk to the bus stop, cant get up the bus step
not much use if you cant get to the train station

and bugger all use at peak times in most places (standing room only)

Tommy Monk wrote:People still don't need a new fridge every week though sassy, (true) and if needing to get to hospital, is that every day too?(could be a couple of times a week depends and depending what hospital you don`t all ways go to your nearest one, also if its a child of parents on benefit, yes you would go every day some time twice a day )


Maybe a weekly bus pass would do..(in some cases, but that has its own difficulty's, like changing buses or buses that don`t cater for wheelchairs or that are often full and nowhere for the disabled person to sit especially on long trips plus the inevitable bouncing about )   . a lift from a friend or relative(not always possible and a lot of disabled have very small social life`s and few friends to call on ) or if you Are in that much trouble then I'm sure either transport would be provided(not really and mainly only in exceptional circumstances and that is also down to availability )  OR YOU WOULD BE IN THE HOSPITAL ALL THE TIME! (and some people are for that very reason)

when my daughter was in for her op 3 weeks ago  they was an old lady who was being kept in for many of the above reasons ,she could not be sent home as they was nobody to help her
And although we live 300 yards away from a major hospital we had a 80 mile round trip to the hospital she was to attend because that`s where the consultant was based, she had to be in the hospital for admission at 6:30 in the morning buses where not on that route that early in the morning and she would have had to change 3 times to get to her destination  

its not as simple as people seem to think

ps buses dont cater For more than one wheelchair at a time so there is another problem especially on hospital routes

yeah but they dont care korban...Its not them thats in that situation, and they are greedy miserable self righteous prigs to boot.

True sons and daughters of "greed is good" Maggie..

That's what ambulances are for...

my point proved..

a sort of modern "let them eat cake"

thanks to the tory wrecking ball having been applied to the NHS transport ambulance services (as opposed to emergency ambulances) are in disarray, lacking vehicles and staff.

Tommy Monk wrote:That's what ambulances are for...

No its not Tommy the ambulance service is stretched thin at the moment ferrying people back and forward to appointments is not the job of the ambulance service

What do you want me to do... give everyone a piggy back ride!?



Benefits are paid out, and on £73 a week for JSA you Are expected to feed yourself and pay for transport and other costs... not live a life of luxury... as otherwise what is the incentive to work at all if you can get it all for free!?


This is what the thread is about isn't it!?

victorismyhero wrote:my point proved..

a sort of modern "let them eat cake"

i am prepared o give him the benefit of the doubt as he obviously doesn`t have responsibility for a disabled family member so does not have the perspective necessary to make an informed assessment of the difficulty's faced on a day to day basis

Maybe if labour hadn't fucked the NHS with a 300 billion bill to be paid off for 50 billion worth of hospitals and if labour hadn't employed so many useless middle managers and bean counters...!?



Just a thought... as extra money has been put in since 2010.

Tommy Monk wrote:What do you want me to do... give everyone a piggy back ride!?



Benefits are paid out, and on £73 a week for JSA you Are expected to feed yourself and pay for transport and other costs... not live a life of luxury... as otherwise what is the incentive to work at all if you can get it all for free!?


This is what the thread is about isn't it!?

could you live on 10.43 a day ?
and what exactly do you consider luxury because they are certain thing that once where considered luxury's 40 years ago but in the modern world are now necessity`s

Tommy Monk wrote:Nems, I've been at both ends of it all, some weeks being on £1000+ and other weeks having to scratch on and only getting a giro.


Benefits are there to ensure you don't starve and You have basic electricity and heating etc, not so you can afford luxury life style, nights out on the town, expensive clothes and other expensive goods.

If some weeks you earned £1000 then you have never been at the sharp end. I have been at that end and I know how hard and soul destroying it is. There was no luxury items or meals out. It really pisses me off when such nonsense is trotted out.

korban dallas wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:What do you want me to do... give everyone a piggy back ride!?



Benefits are paid out, and on £73 a week for JSA you Are expected to feed yourself and pay for transport and other costs... not live a life of luxury... as otherwise what is the incentive to work at all if you can get it all for free!?


This is what the thread is about isn't it!?

could you live on 10.43 a day ?
and what exactly do you consider luxury because they are certain thing that once where considered luxury's 40 years ago but in the modern world are now necessity`s

Like what?

Handy Andy thinks that benefits should pay for nights out in restaurants and luxury goods...



And my neighbour has a disabled child and says the treatment and staff at hospital are excellent!!!

sassy wrote:Yep, but they are not doing that, and neither are low wages.  Don't tell me, you'll try to shrug off the use of food banks as they spend the money on something else.  But that is you Tommy, never admit the truth, always denigrate those in need and make out it's there own fault and lick the boots of the people doing it to them.  I loathe people who kowtow to authroity and thank them for killing off the poor and sick.  In my book, that's the lowest thing you can do.

+1

tommy said

a lift from a friend or relative

then two post later said

What do you want me to do... give everyone a piggy back ride!?

??

and there the problem Tommy

if your not part of the solution your part of the problem

mind You I partly blame Labour.
You realise that labour LOST this election, rather than the tories winning it dont you

especially interesting are some of the marginals that could have put labour in power

why didnt they get the support

quite simple really......we were promised yet more of the labour shit of interference rather than governance...

one example that stands out to me (becasue of my interests ) was the ogress Harrit Harman going on record on TV as saying she was going to make gun licensing even more difficult and opaque than it is. NO this is just a labour sound byte out ot get supposedly easy votes, mistaking the success of the past idiocies in this area as an indication that the same tired old popularist thinking was going to be a vote winner (consider that all the past 20 years or more of gun laws have NOT reduced either illegal firearms or produced a reduction below the already very very low rate of crime with legally held...proving that no matter what you cannot legislate for nutters) firearms.

now never mind that ...she outlined this stupidity and promptly lost an estimated 50,000 voters across a large number of KEY marginals.

WHY for f**ks sake????

what IS it about labour and their hate of the working class shooter???

of course this wasnt the only piece of interfering ideas that the cretins raised

and THIS is the point...many, mant people saw labour as the party of "micro management, of interference rather than governance, the party of the nanny state....

and months later...they STILL dont "get it"

WHEN will labour learn...get the f**k out of my LIFE and go run the country as it should be...??

WHY is it almost always labour councils that are going to put microchips in your grey bin and have covert bin examiners creeping round to make sure you are not putting the wrong rubbish in the wrong bin

why is it it is almost always labour councils that being soley composed of townies want to run rural affairs their way?
etc etc etc

over the past few years labour has, by its cretinous output, managed to alienate MORE voters than the tories have gained...

Nems wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Nems, I've been at both ends of it all, some weeks being on £1000+ and other weeks having to scratch on and only getting a giro.


Benefits are there to ensure you don't starve and You have basic electricity and heating etc, not so you can afford luxury life style, nights out on the town, expensive clothes and other expensive goods.

If some weeks you earned £1000 then you have never been at the sharp end. I have been at that end and I know how hard and soul destroying it is. There was no luxury items or meals out. It really pisses me off when such nonsense is trotted out.

Nems, I've lived on a giro and I've had work which got me £1000+ a week and many other jobs inbetween... mostly at the low end earnings scale, so I know exactly what I'm talking about!!!


I've stacked shelves, worked for an agency in a post office sorting office on peanuts... back in 89 I was on £40 a week on CITB training scheme.

Raggamuffin wrote:

sassy wrote:

They don't do that anymore.   You used to fill in a form at the hospital.  It was stopped a long time ago and the DWP don't have any such scheme.

They say it still applies, but in practice it hasn't done for ages.

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1079.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=154

Apparently, it all depends on what benefits you're getting or whatever - so complicated yet again. I think it should depend on how often you have to go and how far it is to the hospital really.

Yes so in reality you will find no bugger qualifies.

victorismyhero wrote:mind You I partly blame Labour.
You realise that labour LOST this election, rather than the tories winning it dont you

especially interesting are some of the marginals that could have put labour in power

why didnt they get the support

quite simple really......we were promised yet more of the labour shit of interference rather than governance...

one example that stands out to me (becasue of my interests ) was the ogress Harrit Harman going on record on TV as saying she was going to make gun licensing even more difficult and opaque than it is. NO this is just a labour sound byte out ot get supposedly easy votes, mistaking the success of the past idiocies in this area as an indication that the same tired old popularist thinking was going to be a vote winner (consider that all the past 20 years or more of gun laws have NOT reduced either illegal firearms or produced a reduction below the already very very low rate of crime with legally held...proving that no matter what you cannot legislate for nutters) firearms.

now never mind that ...she outlined this stupidity and promptly lost an estimated 50,000 voters across a large number of KEY marginals.

WHY for f**ks sake????

what IS it about labour and their hate of the working class shooter???

of course this wasnt the only piece of interfering ideas that the cretins raised

and THIS is the point...many, mant people saw labour as the party of "micro management, of interference rather than governance, the party of the nanny state....

and months later...they STILL dont "get it"

WHEN will labour learn...get the f**k out of my LIFE and go run the country as it should be...??

WHY is it almost always labour councils that are going to put microchips in your grey bin and have covert bin examiners creeping round to make sure you are not putting the wrong rubbish in the wrong bin

why is it it is almost always labour councils that being soley composed of townies want to run rural affairs their way?
etc etc etc

over the past few years labour has, by its cretinous output, managed to alienate MORE voters than the tories have gained...

This is what I don't like about leftie policies - the nannying. I see comments on here sometimes whereby some people think that the Government should do everything for them and others. I admire people who can stand on their own two feet - metaphorically speaking of course - and those who are entrepreneurs. I'm not one myself, which is why I'm not rich probably.

Nems wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1079.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=154

Apparently, it all depends on what benefits you're getting or whatever - so complicated yet again. I think it should depend on how often you have to go and how far it is to the hospital really.

Yes so in reality you will find no bugger qualifies.

I didn't say that - I haven't looked into the benefits side of it. I just think it should be simpler, that's all.

Tommy Monk wrote:Handy Andy thinks that benefits should pay for nights out in restaurants and luxury goods...



And my neighbour has a disabled child and says the treatment and staff at hospital are excellent!!!

ye i am sure they are excellent but i can bet she does`t burden you with all the crap and difficulty disabled people and there carers face every day because most could`t care less as long as there ok and it does`t affect them

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
could you live on 10.43 a day ?
and what exactly do you consider luxury because they are certain thing that once where considered luxury's 40 years ago but in the modern world are now necessity`s

Like what?

Yes like what...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:That's what ambulances are for...

You can't get an ambulance to a 999
They certainly don't take people to outpatients appointments

If it's not an emergency then you have to get yourself there... nothing new in that!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Nems wrote:

If some weeks you earned £1000 then you have never been at the sharp end. I have been at that end and I know how hard and soul destroying it is. There was no luxury items or meals out. It really pisses me off when such nonsense is trotted out.

Nems, I've lived on a giro and I've had work which got me £1000+ a week and many other jobs inbetween... mostly at the low end earnings scale, so I know exactly what I'm talking about!!!


I've stacked shelves, worked for an agency in a post office sorting office on peanuts... back in 89 I was on £40 a week on CITB training scheme.

And how many people did you have to keep on that £40?

equal to about £70 today

so £70 per week, still living in mommy's apron pocket?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Like what?

Yes like what...!?

phone ,tv is the most people complain about a computer (most things are done on-line now or at least moving that way) insurance, decent and healthy food,
other wise we might as well lock people up in prison where indecently they would be better of 24 hr care 3 meals a day washing ,electricity heat ,company

or is it back to the work house and people living in abject poverty with nothing in there lifes but misery , disabled left to fend for them self`s
while company's ship jobs over seas to India paying them 3 pounds a hour while the government gives India aid in the millions instead of the people in this country who need it
fuck india has a space program we have food banks

I was living at my mums at that time so was just money for me... but Just to put it In perspective, I left that after 3 months and got a job as a lowest grade admin assistant after and was straight on £150 a week after tax working in centre of London and A weekly travelcard was about £20 a week then.

korban dallas wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Yes like what...!?

phone ,tv is the most people complain about a computer (most things are done on-line now or at least moving that way) insurance, decent and healthy food,
other wise we might as well lock people up in prison where indecently they would be better of 24 hr care 3 meals a day washing ,electricity heat ,company

or is it back to the work house and people living in abject poverty with nothing in there lifes but misery , disabled left to fend for them self`s
while company's ship jobs over seas  to India paying them 3 pounds a hour  while the government gives India aid in the millions instead of the people in this country who need it
fuck india has a space program we have food banks

Get a PAYG phone - and use it only if necessary. TV isn't a necessity, and neither is a computer - you can use ones at the library if you need to. Decent food - very nice, but there's no need for quite so much variety IMO.

If people want those things, they need to get a job to pay for them.

Tommy Monk wrote:I was living at my mums at that time so was just money for me... but Just to put it In perspective, I left that after 3 months and got a job as a lowest grade admin assistant after and was straight on £150 a week after tax working in centre of London and A weekly travelcard was about £20 a week then.

Well let me give you some perspective Tommy. In 2013 after paying gas, electric, insurance,water etc. £40 a week was what I had to keep three of us. That had to pay for food clothes toiletries school uniform - everything.

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
phone ,tv is the most people complain about a computer (most things are done on-line now or at least moving that way) insurance, decent and healthy food,
other wise we might as well lock people up in prison where indecently they would be better of 24 hr care 3 meals a day washing ,electricity heat ,company

or is it back to the work house and people living in abject poverty with nothing in there lifes but misery , disabled left to fend for them self`s
while company's ship jobs over seas  to India paying them 3 pounds a hour  while the government gives India aid in the millions instead of the people in this country who need it
fuck india has a space program we have food banks

Get a PAYG phone - and use it only if necessary. TV isn't a necessity, and neither is a computer - you can use ones at the library if you need to. Decent food - very nice, but there's no need for quite so much variety IMO.

If people want those things, they need to get a job to pay for them.

IMo you wrong A TV and a computer is a necessity especially in this day and age  and becoming even more so library's are closing and only available during certain hours and have a few computers and best not open on Sundays also looking for a job is a big use for computers so thats one reason people need them otherwise your cutting of there legs before they even start

and variety ? yes why not just go the whole way and make them eat your left overs ,perhaps you could just fling it on the floor for them to scavenge for while you at it

so how does a disabled person get to the library when thier mode of transport has been taken off them.

and Yes a computer is (or has laready) become necessary

It is a proven fact that if you dont have a computer you are at an economic disadvantage straight away
prime example

if you have to have paper bills the energy providers now effectively "fine " you for it...

of course TV isnt necessary of course....if you want your kids bullied for not knowing the latest "thing on tv"
and of course if you like staring at a blank wall for hours on end....

korban dallas wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Yes like what...!?

phone ,tv is the most people complain about a computer (most things are done on-line now or at least moving that way) insurance, decent and healthy food,
other wise we might as well lock people up in prison where indecently they would be better of 24 hr care 3 meals a day washing ,electricity heat ,company

or is it back to the work house and people living in abject poverty with nothing in there lifes but misery , disabled left to fend for them self`s
while company's ship jobs over seas to India paying them 3 pounds a hour while the government gives India aid in the millions instead of the people in this country who need it
fuck india has a space program we have food banks

Not essentials... computers available for free at the library, tv is a luxury really, you can pick one up for nothing outside people throw old ones away, tv licence is only couple quid a week, insurance??? What for???, phones are very cheap, £10-15 a month gets you a half decent smart phone with loads of minutes and texts plus a bit of internet use.

You can buy decent healthy food easily on a giro... problem is too many people want to buy take aways, cakes, crisps, fizzy drinks, fags and booze!!!


Labour oversaw loads of The outsourcing you Are going on about...

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Get a PAYG phone - and use it only if necessary. TV isn't a necessity, and neither is a computer - you can use ones at the library if you need to. Decent food - very nice, but there's no need for quite so much variety IMO.

If people want those things, they need to get a job to pay for them.

IMo you wrong A TV and a computer is a necessity especially in this day and age  and becoming even more so library's are closing and only available during certain hours and have a few computers and best not open on Sundays also looking for a job is a big use for computers so thats one reason people need them otherwise your cutting of there legs before they even start

and variety ? yes why not just go the whole way and make them eat your left overs ,perhaps you could just fling it on the floor for them to scavenge for while you at it

There's always a negative response to any practical suggestions on here isn't there?

Why is a TV a necessity?

Not all jobs are applied for online, and a lot of companies advertise in the paper and will take paper CVs or application forms.

By variety, I mean there's no need for all this absurd five a day nonsense, or expensive meat or whatever. People are silly about food IMO.

victorismyhero wrote:so how does a disabled person get to the library when thier mode of transport has been taken off them.

and Yes a computer is (or has laready) become necessary

It is a proven fact that if you dont have a computer you are at an economic disadvantage straight away
prime example

if you have to have paper bills the energy providers now effectively "fine " you for it...

of course TV isnt necessary of course....if you want your kids bullied for not knowing the latest "thing on tv"
and of course if you like staring at a blank wall for hours on end....

i think Tv is a necessity i am not talking pay tv but terrestrial for news information entertainment other wise you are being excluded from the world and have a pretty miserable life

victorismyhero wrote:so how does a disabled person get to the library when thier mode of transport has been taken off them.

and Yes a computer is (or has laready) become necessary

It is a proven fact that if you dont have a computer you are at an economic disadvantage straight away
prime example

if you have to have paper bills the energy providers now effectively "fine " you for it...

of course TV isnt necessary of course....if you want your kids bullied for not knowing the latest "thing on tv"
and of course if you like staring at a blank wall for hours on end....

I wasn't talking about disabled people, I was talking about those on JSA.

If kids are bullied for not having a TV, the bullies are the problem, not the lack of a TV. There are other alternatives to sitting there like a slug watching TV you know.

korban dallas wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:so how does a disabled person get to the library when thier mode of transport has been taken off them.

and Yes a computer is (or has laready) become necessary

It is a proven fact that if you dont have a computer you are at an economic disadvantage straight away
prime example

if you have to have paper bills the energy providers now effectively "fine " you for it...

of course TV isnt necessary of course....if you want your kids bullied for not knowing the latest "thing on tv"
and of course if you like staring at a blank wall for hours on end....

i think Tv is a necessity i am not talking pay tv but terrestrial for news information entertainment other wise you are being excluded from the world and have a pretty miserable life

Oh FFS Korban. Ever heard of newspapers? You can get them quite cheaply you know. Entertainment? Make your own. Watching Britain's Got Talent isn't really a priority.