Stitching-up claimants is all part of the job, says Jobcentre insider

First topic message reminder :

Last week Iain Duncan Smith met a whistle-blower who has worked for his Department for Work and Pensions for more than 20 years.

Giving the Secretary of State a dossier of evidence, the former Jobcentre Plus adviser told him of a “brutal and bullying” culture of “setting claimants up to fail”.

“The pressure to sanction customers was constant,” he said. “It led to people being stitched-up on a daily basis.”

The man wishes to be anonymous but gave his details to IDS, DWP minister Esther McVey and Neil Couling, Head of Jobcentre Plus, who also attended the meeting.

“We were constantly told ‘agitate the customer’ and that ‘any engagement with the customer is an opportunity to ­sanction’,” he told them.

Labour MP Debbie Abrahams, the member of the DWP Select Committee who set up the meeting, has renewed her call for an inquiry into inappropriate sanctioning.

“I am deeply concerned that sanctions are being used to create the illusion the Government is bringing down unemployment,” she said.

Sanctions pre-date the Coalition as a way of ensuring benefit claimants, who include the jobless and sick and disabled people on Employment Support Allowance, attend appointments and apply for jobs. But under the Tory-led Government, they have soared – to 897,690 a year from the most recent data.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/stitching-up-claimants-part-job-says-3537051


from May last year...but no better if not worse Now....


and you wonder why I consider those who work for this shameful organisation to be entirely without honour...

In fact come the revolution i would put them against the brick wall first...

IDS and his troupe of performing monkeys are merely self seeking low lifes

these people are traitors to their own.......

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy thinks Tommy and I lack empathy because we don't see anything wrong with second hand clothes. Therefore, it follows that she thinks those who do see something with them have empathy.

so why is it a reply to me ?

I wasn't replying to you ...

korban dallas wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:The article points out a lot more than that!!!


There are some snobby twats out there who look down their noses at charity shops...

i love it when you make my point for me and more than you might think

Well, so far the snobby twats are you (leftie), Irn (leftie) and that idiot champagne socialist Mary portas...

Raggamuffin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:The article points out a lot more than that!!!


There are some snobby twats out there who look down their noses at charity shops...

Yes, and at least one of them is on here.

that`s that projection again you two do that a lot

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, and at least one of them is on here.

that`s that projection again you two do that a lot

Are you suggesting I look down my nose at charity shops?

That would be a bit weird as I go in them quite a bit.

Tommy Monk wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
i love it when you make my point for me and more than you might think

Well, so far the snobby twats are you (leftie), Irn (leftie) and that idiot champagne socialist Mary portas...

Well done Tommy you used champagne socialist in the correct context at last

see putting definitions up for you isn`t a waste of time well done you

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
that`s that projection again you two do that a lot

Are you suggesting I look down my nose at charity shops?

That would be a bit weird as I go in them quite a bit.

well you keep suggesting and implying  things about me seems only fair don`t you think
i guess it makes you feel superior to the less fortunate

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:So then, people who look down on second hand clothes have "empathy"?

What a strange view - even for a leftie.

You do like making yourself look a total tit. The empathy you are lacking in, shows in the way you think of people who are struggling desperately, you and Tommy have a real problem, and I'm not wasting my time talking to people without an empathy button.

What a load of drivel... it is those who wish to look down their noses at people who use charity shops who have the problem!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

sassy wrote:

You do like making yourself look a total tit.  The empathy you are lacking in, shows in the way you think of people who are struggling desperately, you and Tommy have a real problem, and I'm not wasting my time talking to people without an empathy button.

What a load of drivel... it is those who wish to look down their noses at people who use charity shops who have the problem!!!

Oh I've put the ghastly woman on ignore. I do hope she means it - I don't want to speak to her either - she thinks that murderers are "victims".

It's people who think that judging others by where they got their clothes is a good thing who are the problem - ie, the lefties.

Tommy Monk wrote:

sassy wrote:

You do like making yourself look a total tit.  The empathy you are lacking in, shows in the way you think of people who are struggling desperately, you and Tommy have a real problem, and I'm not wasting my time talking to people without an empathy button.

What a load of drivel... it is those who wish to look down their noses at people who use charity shops who have the problem!!!

i do agree with her empathy is something you don`t seem to have for anybody
although ragg`s is perhaps a different case

Raggamuffin wrote:It's people who think that judging others by where they got their clothes is a good thing who are the problem - ie, the lefties.

yes thats the point and i think you will find it`s more a RW trait than a left wing one imo

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:It's people who think that judging others by where they got their clothes is a good thing who are the problem - ie, the lefties.

yes thats the point and i think you will find it`s more a RW trait than a left wing one imo

No it's not. I suspect that you would judge Tommy and I as being "right wing", and we certainly have no problems with where people get their clothes from.

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
yes thats the point and i think you will find it`s more a RW trait than a left wing one imo

No it's not. I suspect that you would judge Tommy and I as being "right wing", and we certainly have no problems with where people get their clothes from.

I judge Tommy to be a idiot and a bigot

And yes it really is

ps and Tommy`s a opportunist he will side on any argument against the left wing inclined thats what he does

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

No it's not. I suspect that you would judge Tommy and I as being "right wing", and we certainly have no problems with where people get their clothes from.

I judge Tommy to be a idiot and a bigot

And yes it really is  

There are only two people on this thread who have looked down their noses at second hand clothes - you and Bru - both "lefties".

Lefties think they are superior rags... too worthy of second hand stuff...


And clearly look down their noses at people who do have this second hand stuff!!!

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
I judge Tommy to be a idiot and a bigot

And yes it really is  

There are only two people on this thread who have looked down their noses at second hand clothes - you and Bru - both "lefties".

see there you go again i told you why i don`t but second hand clothes that`s a personal choice but i haven`t looked down my nose at people who do that`s just you twisting words and posts you cant be bothered to read in the first place
no wonder you get your self so worked up and see things and opinions not there

perhaps you can show where i have said i look down my nose at them in fact quite the opposite i am appalled they have to resort to charity shops as i think you said the low waged and unemployed should do when they cant afford new
there is a big difference between choice and necessity

Tommy Monk wrote:Lefties think they are superior rags... too worthy of second hand stuff...


And clearly look down their noses at people who do have this second hand stuff!!!

theirs a slug under a rock in my garden by bet is if it could talk, it would look down on you Tommy

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

There are only two people on this thread who have looked down their noses at second hand clothes - you and Bru - both "lefties".

see there you go again i told you why i don`t but second hand clothes that`s a personal choice but i haven`t looked down my nose at people who do that`s just you twisting words and posts you cant be bothered to read in the first place
no wonder you get your self so worked up and see things and opinions not there

perhaps you can show where i have said i look down my nose at them in fact quite the opposite i am appalled they have to resort to charity shops as i think you said the low waged and unemployed should do when they cant afford new
there is a big difference between choice and necessity  

Well actually, you just twisted my words. I said you looked down your nose at second hand clothes, not the people who buy them.

However, saying that your appalled that people have to "resort" to charity shops shows that you think image is very important. There's nothing appalling about it - it's sensible.

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
see there you go again i told you why i don`t but second hand clothes that`s a personal choice but i haven`t looked down my nose at people who do that`s just you twisting words and posts you cant be bothered to read in the first place
no wonder you get your self so worked up and see things and opinions not there

perhaps you can show where i have said i look down my nose at them in fact quite the opposite i am appalled they have to resort to charity shops as i think you said the low waged and unemployed should do when they cant afford new
there is a big difference between choice and necessity  

Well actually, you just twisted my words. I said you looked down your nose at second hand clothes, not the people who buy them.

However, saying that your appalled that people have to "resort" to charity shops shows that you think image is very important. There's nothing appalling about it - it's sensible.

no i said i don`t buy them because i don`t know where they came from, And cited my mates sleeping bag as an example of why i hold that view

but i guess you did not read that post ether
And resort as was pointed out is not the same as no choice and not by me ether although you keep avoiding that distinction

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well actually, you just twisted my words. I said you looked down your nose at second hand clothes, not the people who buy them.

However, saying that your appalled that people have to "resort" to charity shops shows that you think image is very important. There's nothing appalling about it - it's sensible.

no i said i don`t buy them because i don`t know where they came from, And cited my mates sleeping bag as an example of why i hold that view

but i guess you did not read that post ether
And resort as was pointed out is not the same as no choice and not by me ether although you keep avoiding that distinction

I did read it actually, but that's not all you said. The fact that you're appalled at the idea of people having to buy second hand clothes at all says it all ...

I don't see a distinction between choice and necessity. You clearly didn't read my previous posts about that. The end result is the same - the only thing that differs is the attitude of the people buying this stuff, and the attitude of people like you.

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
no i said i don`t buy them because i don`t know where they came from, And cited my mates sleeping bag as an example of why i hold that view

but i guess you did not read that post ether
And resort as was pointed out is not the same as no choice and not by me ether although you keep avoiding that distinction

I did read it actually, but that's not all you said. The fact that you're appalled at the idea of people having to buy second hand clothes at all says it all ...

appalled at the idea of people having to buy second hand clothes because they cant afford new ones yes

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I did read it actually, but that's not all you said. The fact that you're appalled at the idea of people having to buy second hand clothes at all says it all ...

appalled at the idea of people having to buy second hand clothes because they cant afford new ones yes

Well I think that's silly. It's just clothes - what does it matter if they're second hand?

Raggamuffin wrote:I don't see a distinction between choice and necessity. You clearly didn't read my previous posts about that. The end result is the same - the only thing that differs is the attitude of the people buying this stuff, and the attitude of people like you.

you don't see a distinction between choice and necessity ?
really ?

choices that have relatively low-impact on the chooser's life overall.

necessity something necessary or indispensable: food, shelter, clothes and other necessities of life.

there is a big difference

no wonder your so confused about what is choice and necessity

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I don't see a distinction between choice and necessity. You clearly didn't read my previous posts about that. The end result is the same - the only thing that differs is the attitude of the people buying this stuff, and the attitude of people like you.

you don't see a distinction between choice and necessity ?
really ?

choices that have relatively low-impact on the chooser's life overall.

necessity something necessary or indispensable: food, shelter, clothes and other necessities of life.

there is a big difference

no wonder your so confused about what is choice and  necessity

Not in this scenario, no I don't. This is because I don't fundamentally have a problem with second hand clothes. You do, so naturally you do see a distinction.

When you're in a hole... stop digging!!!

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
appalled at the idea of people having to buy second hand clothes because they cant afford new ones yes

Well I think that's silly. It's just clothes - what does it matter if they're second hand?

at the risk of repeating my self ad infinitum it matters to a lot of people especially children and there immediate peers as nems said anybody who thinks thats not the case likely doesn`t have kids or has to money to give them all the best stuff, many do not
do you have kids raggs ?

When you're in a hole... stop digging!!!

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I don't see a distinction between choice and necessity. You clearly didn't read my previous posts about that. The end result is the same - the only thing that differs is the attitude of the people buying this stuff, and the attitude of people like you.

you don't see a distinction between choice and necessity ?
really ?

choices that have relatively low-impact on the chooser's life overall.

necessity something necessary or indispensable: food, shelter, clothes and other necessities of life.

there is a big difference

no wonder your so confused about what is choice and  necessity

You see, you've just said that clothing is a necessity, not a choice - which is true, but yet you also think that buying second hand clothes is a choice for some people, which is also true.

Do you see how what you just said makes no sense? The person who chooses to buy a coat from a charity shop rather than a new coat ends up with a coat, as does the person who buys one in a charity shop because they can't afford a new one. How is the impact any different on the latter?

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well I think that's silly. It's just clothes - what does it matter if they're second hand?

at the risk of repeating my self ad infinitum it matters to a lot of people especially children and there immediate peers as nems said anybody who thinks thats not the case likely doesn`t have kids or has to money to give them all the best stuff, many do not  
do you have kids raggs ?

I would say it matters even less to children, unless they've been spoilt in the first place.

I don't answer questions about my private life - sorry.

Tommy Monk wrote:When you're in a hole... stop digging!!!

yes she is but if i keep digging i might be able to rescue you both
Raggs first of course but you i would think is a lost cause and i should/have just given up and started to fill your hole on with you still at the bottom

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
at the risk of repeating my self ad infinitum it matters to a lot of people especially children and there immediate peers as nems said anybody who thinks thats not the case likely doesn`t have kids or has to money to give them all the best stuff, many do not  
do you have kids raggs ?

I would say it matters even less to children, unless they've been spoilt in the first place.

I don't answer questions about my private life - sorry.

but you expect others too
but thanks your answer speaks volumes and that answer is no you don`t have kids
No wonder you have no idea

how old are you or is that a state secret as well ?

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I would say it matters even less to children, unless they've been spoilt in the first place.

I don't answer questions about my private life - sorry.

but you expect others too
but thanks your answer speaks volumes and that answer is no you don`t have kids
No wonder you have no idea  

No I don't - others volunteer it.

I've never talked about my family on forums, and I'm not going to start now.

Look, if teenagers get all upset about not having the latest clothes, they need to change their attitude. It's not a good reason for people to be given public money just because they want to be "trendy".

If someone is wearing something that looks ok and clean and tidy, and it keeps them warm etc... nobody knows or cares where it was bought from or whether it was bought from new or picked up second hand or charity shop!?


Isn't it lefties who keep telling us we are all the same...!?


So what does it matter?

Tommy Monk wrote:

If someone is wearing something that looks ok and clean and tidy, and it keeps them warm etc... nobody knows or cares where it was bought from or whether it was bought from new or picked up second hand or charity shop!?


Isn't it lefties who keep telling us we are all the same...!?


So what does it matter?

Exactly Tommy. If I'm wearing something from a charity shop, nobody knows unless I tell them, and if I do, they're usually impressed that I got such a good bargain.

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
but you expect others too
but thanks your answer speaks volumes and that answer is no you don`t have kids
No wonder you have no idea  

No I don't - others volunteer it.

I've never talked about my family on forums, and I'm not going to start now.

Look, if teenagers get all upset about not having the latest clothes, they need to change their attitude. It's not a good reason for people to be given public money just because they want to be "trendy".

so no kids middle 30s i guess and it has nothing to do with being trendy
when you do have kids if you ever do your in for a really rude awaking ragg`s i hope your still a member so i can see it

The trouble with lefties is that they think everyone should have the same amount of money, regardless of the effort they put in or not. They also put a high value on material goods and think that they're more important than they actually are.

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

No I don't - others volunteer it.

I've never talked about my family on forums, and I'm not going to start now.

Look, if teenagers get all upset about not having the latest clothes, they need to change their attitude. It's not a good reason for people to be given public money just because they want to be "trendy".

so no kids middle 30s i guess and it has nothing to do with being trendy
when you do have kids if you ever do your in for a really rude awaking ragg`s i hope your still a member so i can see it

Guess all you like Korban - it won't make a difference.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

If someone is wearing something that looks ok and clean and tidy, and it keeps them warm etc... nobody knows or cares where it was bought from or whether it was bought from new or picked up second hand or charity shop!?


Isn't it lefties who keep telling us we are all the same...!?


So what does it matter?

Exactly Tommy. If I'm wearing something from a charity shop, nobody knows unless I tell them, and if I do, they're usually impressed that I got such a good bargain.

nobody knows unless I tell them ? two pages ago you where bragging the fact you bought from charity shops

so why don`t you tell more people seems a odd turn around from a couple of pages ago

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Exactly Tommy. If I'm wearing something from a charity shop, nobody knows unless I tell them, and if I do, they're usually impressed that I got such a good bargain.

nobody knows unless I tell them ? two pages ago you where bragging the fact you bought from charity shops

so why don`t you tell people seems a odd turn around from a couple of pages ago

I mean in RL Korban - you know, that thing you think you know all about?

I might tell people, I might not. It depends if it comes up or not. The same is true of all these "poor" people you keep talking about. They don't have to tell anyone where they got their clothes if they don't want to - and then nobody would know.

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:

so no kids middle 30s i guess and it has nothing to do with being trendy
when you do have kids if you ever do your in for a really rude awaking ragg`s i hope your still a member so i can see it

Guess all you like Korban - it won't make a difference.

no guess needed, your attitude and obvious lack of knowledge on it speaks volumes raggs

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Guess all you like Korban - it won't make a difference.

no guess needed, your attitude and obvious lack of knowledge on it speaks volumes  raggs

In that case, you're about 100, you never leave the house, and you've never worked a day in your life.

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
nobody knows unless I tell them ? two pages ago you where bragging the fact you bought from charity shops

so why don`t you tell people seems a odd turn around from a couple of pages ago

I mean in RL Korban - you know, that thing you think you know all about?

I might tell people, I might not. It depends if it comes up or not. The same is true of all these "poor" people you keep talking about. They don't have to tell anyone where they got their clothes if they don't want to - and then nobody would know.

well considering you don`t have a clue about being a parent and its challenges i obviously know more bout RL than you
And now your saying they should not tell anybody where there clothes came from such as a charity shop so they should hide it then is that what your saying why you say you tell people properly just close friends now your saying they should hide the fact ....back in a sec i need a ladder to get down this hole

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
no guess needed, your attitude and obvious lack of knowledge on it speaks volumes  raggs

In that case, you're about 100, you never leave the house, and you've never worked a day in your life.

once again proving you don`t read peoples posts

Raggamuffin wrote:The trouble with lefties is that they think everyone should have the same amount of money, regardless of the effort they put in or not. They also put a high value on material goods and think that they're more important than they actually are.

Yes lefties do have an over exaggerated sense of self importance...!

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I mean in RL Korban - you know, that thing you think you know all about?

I might tell people, I might not. It depends if it comes up or not. The same is true of all these "poor" people you keep talking about. They don't have to tell anyone where they got their clothes if they don't want to - and then nobody would know.

well considering you don`t have a clue about being a parent and its challenges i obviously know more bout RL than you
And now your saying they should not tell anybody where there clothes came from such as a charity shop so they should hide it then is that what your saying why you say you tell people properly just  close friends now your saying they should hide the fact ....back in a sec i need a ladder to get down this hole

So you think that being a parent means being concerned about a kid having the "latest trainers".

I'm not saying they shouldn't tell anyone where their clothes came from, I'm saying they don't have to if they don't want to. You're the one who was bleating on about kids being bullied for not having new clothes, not me. All I'm saying is - who would know unless they told anyone? If it bothers them that much, they don't have to say.

It doesn't bother me, but now you're twisting all that as usual. I don't habitually go up to people and say - hey, guess where I got this coat from? If it comes up, and they ask, I'll tell them.

You have a problem with that?

You're the one who dug yourself into a hole from the first moment you turned your nose up at second hand clothes. You're just a snob really.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:The trouble with lefties is that they think everyone should have the same amount of money, regardless of the effort they put in or not. They also put a high value on material goods and think that they're more important than they actually are.

Yes lefties do have an over exaggerated sense of self importance...!

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

In that case, you're about 100, you never leave the house, and you've never worked a day in your life.

once again proving you don`t read peoples posts

Good grief, are those two still trying to pretend they actually care a shit about the children, rather than trying to show that people should live on toast and never be able to treat their children. Sackcloth and ashes is good enough for the working poor after all. Rags has said before she has no children.

He'll just keep on twisting now rags... like he usually does when he mugs himself off... he'll be chipping away in all directions now, just to try to find one little thing to be able to latch on to so as to then try to claim to be 'the winner'...!!!






Anyway I'm off... have fun!

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
well considering you don`t have a clue about being a parent and its challenges i obviously know more bout RL than you
And now your saying they should not tell anybody where there clothes came from such as a charity shop so they should hide it then is that what your saying why you say you tell people properly just  close friends now your saying they should hide the fact ....back in a sec i need a ladder to get down this hole

So you think that being a parent means being concerned about a kid having the "latest trainers".

I'm not saying they shouldn't tell anyone where their clothes came from, I'm saying they don't have to if they don't want to. You're the one who was bleating on about kids being bullied for not having new clothes, not me. All I'm saying is - who would know unless they told anyone? If it bothers them that much, they don't have to say.

It doesn't bother me, but now you're twisting all that as usual. I don't habitually go up to people and say - hey, guess where I got this coat from? If it comes up, and they ask, I'll tell them.

You have a problem with that?

You're the one who dug yourself into a hole from the first moment you turned your nose up at second hand clothes. You're just a snob really.

but you just did ? and i am not twisting anything you keep making statements at cross purposes to previous ones that not my fault that yours
i just pick up on them what is obvious you and Tommy are the ones that don`t understand
Tommy does it because its in his nature you because your life experience are lacking in maturity and experience, how old are you was i right early 30s its not really that personal information but i guess you refusal to answer a pretty simple question says lots as well