Stitching-up claimants is all part of the job, says Jobcentre insider

First topic message reminder :

Last week Iain Duncan Smith met a whistle-blower who has worked for his Department for Work and Pensions for more than 20 years.

Giving the Secretary of State a dossier of evidence, the former Jobcentre Plus adviser told him of a “brutal and bullying” culture of “setting claimants up to fail”.

“The pressure to sanction customers was constant,” he said. “It led to people being stitched-up on a daily basis.”

The man wishes to be anonymous but gave his details to IDS, DWP minister Esther McVey and Neil Couling, Head of Jobcentre Plus, who also attended the meeting.

“We were constantly told ‘agitate the customer’ and that ‘any engagement with the customer is an opportunity to ­sanction’,” he told them.

Labour MP Debbie Abrahams, the member of the DWP Select Committee who set up the meeting, has renewed her call for an inquiry into inappropriate sanctioning.

“I am deeply concerned that sanctions are being used to create the illusion the Government is bringing down unemployment,” she said.

Sanctions pre-date the Coalition as a way of ensuring benefit claimants, who include the jobless and sick and disabled people on Employment Support Allowance, attend appointments and apply for jobs. But under the Tory-led Government, they have soared – to 897,690 a year from the most recent data.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/stitching-up-claimants-part-job-says-3537051


from May last year...but no better if not worse Now....


and you wonder why I consider those who work for this shameful organisation to be entirely without honour...

In fact come the revolution i would put them against the brick wall first...

IDS and his troupe of performing monkeys are merely self seeking low lifes

these people are traitors to their own.......

Nems wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:I was living at my mums at that time so was just money for me... but Just to put it In perspective, I left that after 3 months and got a job as a lowest grade admin assistant after and was straight on £150 a week after tax working in centre of London and A weekly travelcard was about £20 a week then.

Well let me give you some perspective Tommy. In 2013 after paying gas, electric, insurance,water etc. £40 a week was what I had to keep three of us. That had to pay for food clothes toiletries school uniform - everything.

That is not a lot at all for one person, let alone 3!!!

Can you elaborate on income and source...?

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
IMo you wrong A TV and a computer is a necessity especially in this day and age  and becoming even more so library's are closing and only available during certain hours and have a few computers and best not open on Sundays also looking for a job is a big use for computers so thats one reason people need them otherwise your cutting of there legs before they even start

and variety ? yes why not just go the whole way and make them eat your left overs ,perhaps you could just fling it on the floor for them to scavenge for while you at it

There's always a negative response to any practical suggestions on here isn't there?

Why is a TV a necessity? Answerd above
Not all jobs are applied for online, and a lot of companies advertise in the paper and will take paper CVs or application forms.
how may jobs are in the paper ?properly less than 1%

By variety, I mean there's no need for all this absurd five a day nonsense, or expensive meat or whatever. People are silly about food IMO.

so eat unhealthy get sick be more of a burden ? yes that`s a practical suggestion....not

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

There's always a negative response to any practical suggestions on here isn't there?

Why is a TV a necessity? Answerd above
Not all jobs are applied for online, and a lot of companies advertise in the paper and will take paper CVs or application forms.
how may jobs are in the paper ?properly less than 1%

By variety, I mean there's no need for all this absurd five a day nonsense, or expensive meat or whatever. People are silly about food IMO.

so eat unhealthy get sick be more of a burden ? yes that`s a  practical suggestion....not

Why is eating unhealthily the only alternative? I know biscuits and crisps can be cheap these days, but nobody is forced to buy them. You'd have to have a really bad diet to actually get sick from it.

I don't agree with you about the TV - answered above.

Weren't any of you ever told to put an extra jumper on as a child, or did you all have central heating that was on all day?

I've already said you can get a tv for nothing... people throw out decent old CRT tvs all the time these days... tv licence is only something like a couple quid a week...


Plus it is cheap to buy decent fresh food.

Raggamuffin wrote:Weren't any of you ever told to put an extra jumper on as a child, or did you all have central heating that was on all day?

and where is the money for that extra jumper ? once you have paid for the necessity`s ?

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Weren't any of you ever told to put an extra jumper on as a child, or did you all have central heating that was on all day?

and where is the money for that extra jumper ? once you have paid for the necessity`s ?

Oh please - get one from a charity shop or jumble sale.

I suppose none of you ever did washing by hand either ...

and a disabled person is supposed to do their washing, including bedding ....BY HAND ???????????????


seriously the more of monkey boy and ragga brain i read the more i am tempted to wish a huge dose of particularly viscious karm upon them both.....

victorismyhero wrote:and a disabled person is supposed to do their washing, including bedding ....BY HAND ???????????????


seriously the more of monkey boy and ragga brain i read the more i am tempted to wish a huge dose of particularly viscious karm upon them both.....

I told you before - I'm talking about people on JSA.

You and Korban are getting more and more absurd - you both need a bit of hardship to teach you what necessities really are.

Tommy Monk wrote:I've already said you can get a tv for nothing... people throw out decent old CRT tvs all the time these days... tv licence is only something like a couple quid a week...


Plus it is cheap to buy decent fresh food.

wrong again most people don`t throw out old CRT tvs they are becoming very rare indeed
i know i use to fix tv`s and videos now its all electronic with a couple of boards and besides it wont do you any good because we are digital and would need a digital decoder

and yes so a jumper couple of quid a week electricity ,gas ,insurance cloths,transport this 70 quid is going a long way

People on JSA seem to survive quite well ...

This is not specifically about disabled people though is it...!?



They qualify for extra money in benefits and also care from others to do things for them if needed.

Raggamuffin wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:and a disabled person is supposed to do their washing, including bedding ....BY HAND ???????????????


seriously the more of monkey boy and ragga brain i read the more i am tempted to wish a huge dose of particularly viscious karm upon them both.....

I told you before - I'm talking about people on JSA.

You and Korban are getting more and more absurd - you both need a bit of hardship to teach you what necessities really are.

yeah...funny how you do that to deflect from a discussion about how benefit cuts are thrashing the disabled and such...

nice of you to help those who do this by entering false and deficient arguments....

victorismyhero wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I told you before - I'm talking about people on JSA.

You and Korban are getting more and more absurd - you both need a bit of hardship to teach you what necessities really are.

yeah...funny how you do that to deflect from a discussion about how benefit cuts are thrashing the disabled and such...

nice of you to help those who do this by entering false and deficient arguments....

Were we not talking about JSA rates? This is not a thread about disabled people - disability benefits are one aspect, but it's not the only one.

Nobody answered my question before. Don't disabled people get DLA on top of ESA? Also, don't they get their housing paid for them if they have money?

In fact, quite a few questions I've asked have been ignored. I wonder why.

Raggamuffin wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:and a disabled person is supposed to do their washing, including bedding ....BY HAND ???????????????


seriously the more of monkey boy and ragga brain i read the more i am tempted to wish a huge dose of particularly viscious karm upon them both.....

I told you before - I'm talking about people on JSA.

You and Korban are getting more and more absurd - you both need a bit of hardship to teach you what necessities really are.

yes raggs because you know my situation and if you think i live in the lap of luxury your sadly mistaken
its only because i am more resourceful than most in my situation that i enjoy the simple lifestyle i do

but i don`t talk about it or expand because its really non of anybody's business. i am better of than most that`s for sure but well of i am not ,money to spare i don`t have i make compromises every day ,i dont go out for meals i haven't been on a holiday in 25 years

so before you preach about hardship to somebody who has seen it and lived it
think again

korban dallas wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:I've already said you can get a tv for nothing... people throw out decent old CRT tvs all the time these days... tv licence is only something like a couple quid a week...


Plus it is cheap to buy decent fresh food.

wrong again most people don`t throw out old CRT tvs they are becoming very rare indeed
i know i use to fix tv`s and videos now its all electronic with a couple of boards and besides it wont do you any good because we are digital and would need a digital decoder

and yes so a jumper couple of quid a week electricity ,gas ,insurance cloths,transport this 70 quid is going a long way

People do put old TVs outside to be taken by whoever wants them... happens all the time with stuff... I picked up a decent shredder and couple of printers about a year ago as well as a few year old pc and CRT screen which I gave away to another friend.


Just in the last 3 months or so I have seen a couple of fridge freezers, some furniture, cupboards etc while driving about... in fact my computer chair was picked up from outside a house as I was driving past... decent leather on wheels with a reclining action... all was wrong was a bolt was missing at bottom of one of arms and seat kept popping out one side... I fixed it with a plastic tie wrap and it's good as new!!! Had it for about 2-3 years now!!!


I've also got a set of jamo (D 165) speakers that I picked up outside a house where they were getting thrown away and there for anyone to pick up if wanted!!!

Work like new!!!

One of The cones had the middle bit pushed in but I sucked it out with a light blast of my hoover!!!


I love a bit of recycling!!!

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I told you before - I'm talking about people on JSA.

You and Korban are getting more and more absurd - you both need a bit of hardship to teach you what necessities really are.

yes raggs because you know my situation and if you think i live in the lap of luxury your sadly mistaken
its only because i am more resourceful than most in my situation that i enjoy the simple lifestyle i do

but i don`t talk about it or expand because its really non of anybody's business. i am better of than most that`s for sure but well of i am not ,money to spare i don`t have i make compromises every day ,i dont go out for meals i haven't been on a holiday in 25 years  

so before you preach about hardship to somebody who has seen it and lived it
think again

Now then Korban, your partner in this thread did wish something bad on me. Perhaps you should pull him up for that ...

Raggamuffin wrote:Nobody answered my question before. Don't disabled people get DLA on top of ESA? Also, don't they get their housing paid for them if they have money?

DLA is paid to anyone who qualifies...even if working...as it is supposed to be a payment to cover the extra costs involved with a disability, recognising that disabled people are at a financil disadvantage due to extra costs...

Not sure about housing costs certainly they would have to be unemployed as well for that....

victorismyhero wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Nobody answered my question before. Don't disabled people get DLA on top of ESA? Also, don't they get their housing paid for them if they have money?

DLA is paid to anyone who qualifies...even if working...as it is supposed to be a payment to cover the extra costs involved with a disability, recognising that disabled people are at a financil disadvantage due to extra costs...

Not sure about housing costs certainly they would have to be unemployed as well for that....

Well there you are then. If they can get DLA as well as ESA, and have their rent paid, they'll do OK.

I should claim that tenner back it cost me to go to my latest hospital appointment ...

Tommy Monk wrote:This is not specifically about disabled people though is it...!?



They qualify for extra money in benefits and also care from others to do things for them if needed.

your talking about carers allowance ? yes its deducted from any benefit you may get so there is no gain but a council supplied carer gets paid a wage a real wage (such as it is ) carers allowance is cheap labour

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
yes raggs because you know my situation and if you think i live in the lap of luxury your sadly mistaken
its only because i am more resourceful than most in my situation that i enjoy the simple lifestyle i do

but i don`t talk about it or expand because its really non of anybody's business. i am better of than most that`s for sure but well of i am not ,money to spare i don`t have i make compromises every day ,i dont go out for meals i haven't been on a holiday in 25 years  

so before you preach about hardship to somebody who has seen it and lived it
think again

Now then Korban, your partner in this thread did wish something bad on me. Perhaps you should pull him up for that ...

now now...I wished you a dose of suitably viscious karma....

if you consider that will lead to bad things then clearly you know your are a bad person...
(since karma delivers what you DESERVE...rather than what you think you should have)

Raggamuffin wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:

DLA is paid to anyone who qualifies...even if working...as it is supposed to be a payment to cover the extra costs involved with a disability, recognising that disabled people are at a financil disadvantage due to extra costs...

Not sure about housing costs certainly they would have to be unemployed as well for that....

Well there you are then. If they can get DLA as well as ESA, and have their rent paid, they'll do OK.

except they dont, as evidenced by the O/P

victorismyhero wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Now then Korban, your partner in this thread did wish something bad on me. Perhaps you should pull him up for that ...

now now...I wished you a dose of suitably viscious karma....

if you consider that will lead to bad things then clearly you know your are a bad person...
(since karma delivers what you DESERVE...rather than what you think you should have)

Well there you go - that's the thanks I get for all my practical suggestions - a dose of vicious karma wished on me.

I don't know about you, but "vicious" usually means something negative to me.

victorismyhero wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well there you are then. If they can get DLA as well as ESA, and have their rent paid, they'll do OK.

except they dont, as evidenced by the O/P

The people I know do. They don't get their rent paid because they don't need it, but they get ESA and DLA.

Raggamuffin wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:

now now...I wished you a dose of suitably viscious karma....

if you consider that will lead to bad things then clearly you know your are a bad person...
(since karma delivers what you DESERVE...rather than what you think you should have)

Well there you go - that's the thanks I get for all my practical suggestions - a dose of vicious karma wished on me.

I don't know about you, but "vicious" usually means something negative to me.

obviously not into s&m then

In fact, all the disabled people I know seem to have more money than anyone else.

Raggamuffin wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:

except they dont, as evidenced by the O/P

The people I know do. They don't get their rent paid because they don't need it, but they get ESA and DLA.

untill the B'stards at the job center decide its their turn to be sanctioned...and set em up...

Raggamuffin wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:

except they dont, as evidenced by the O/P

The people I know do. They don't get their rent paid because they don't need it, but they get ESA and DLA.

You can only make a new claim for Disability Living Allowance (DLA) if you’re claiming for a child under 16 - this is known as DLA for children.

You may be able to make a new claim if you’re over 65.

Anyone over 16 must apply for Personal Independence Payment (PIP) instead of DLA.
Existing claims

PIP is gradually replacing DLA for people aged 16 to 64, even for those with an indefinite or lifetime DLA award.

victorismyhero wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

The people I know do. They don't get their rent paid because they don't need it, but they get ESA and DLA.

untill the B'stards at the job center decide its their turn to be sanctioned...and set em up...

They already did that, but it didn't work.

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

The people I know do. They don't get their rent paid because they don't need it, but they get ESA and DLA.

You can only make a new claim for Disability Living Allowance (DLA) if you’re claiming for a child under 16 - this is known as DLA for children.

You may be able to make a new claim if you’re over 65.

Anyone over 16 must apply for Personal Independence Payment (PIP) instead of DLA.
Existing claims

PIP is gradually replacing DLA for people aged 16 to 64, even for those with an indefinite or lifetime DLA award.

Same thing ...

Anyway, JSA is supposed to be a temporary thing to help people whilst they find a job - it's not supposed to be an alternative.

then they were lucky...and its precicely that that this thread is about....

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
You can only make a new claim for Disability Living Allowance (DLA) if you’re claiming for a child under 16 - this is known as DLA for children.

You may be able to make a new claim if you’re over 65.

Anyone over 16 must apply for Personal Independence Payment (PIP) instead of DLA.
Existing claims

PIP is gradually replacing DLA for people aged 16 to 64, even for those with an indefinite or lifetime DLA award.

Same thing ...

no its really not

Tommy Monk wrote:

korban dallas wrote:wrong again most people don`t throw out old CRT tvs they are becoming very rare indeed
i know i use to fix tv`s and videos now its all electronic with a couple of boards and besides it wont do you any good because we are digital and would need a digital decoder

and yes so a jumper couple of quid a week electricity ,gas ,insurance cloths,transport this 70 quid is going a long way

People do put old TVs outside to be taken by whoever wants them... happens all the time with stuff... I picked up a decent shredder and couple of printers about a year ago as well as a few year old pc and CRT screen which I gave away to another friend.


Just in the last 3 months or so I have seen a couple of fridge freezers, some furniture, cupboards etc while driving about... in fact my computer chair was picked up from outside a house as I was driving past... decent leather on wheels with a reclining action... all was wrong was a bolt was missing at bottom of one of arms and seat kept popping out one side... I fixed it with a plastic tie wrap and it's good as new!!! Had it for about 2-3 years now!!!


I've also got a set of jamo (D 165) speakers that I picked up outside a house where they were getting thrown away and there for anyone to pick up if wanted!!!

Work like new!!!

One of The cones had the middle bit pushed in but I sucked it out with a light blast of my hoover!!!


I love a bit of recycling!!!

No comment on this KD...?

Raggamuffin wrote:Anyway, JSA is supposed to be a temporary thing to help people whilst they find a job - it's not supposed to be an alternative.

thing is ragga, thats fine ...except that there are not enough jobs to go round, and even fewer of those are "proper jobs" on decent wages, with pensions and such like.

the whole situation is now geared towards exploitation, rather than employment and even labour are complicit in this...

Tommy Monk wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
wrong again most people don`t throw out old CRT tvs they are becoming very rare indeed
i know i use to fix tv`s and videos  now its all electronic with a couple of boards and besides it wont do you any good because we are digital and would need a digital decoder

and yes so a jumper couple of quid a week electricity ,gas ,insurance cloths,transport this 70 quid is going a long way

People do put old TVs outside to be taken by whoever wants them... happens all the time with stuff... I picked up a decent shredder and couple of printers about a year ago as well as a few year old pc and CRT screen which I gave away to another friend.


Just in the last 3 months or so I have seen a couple of fridge freezers, some furniture, cupboards etc while driving about... in fact my computer chair was picked up from outside a house as I was driving past... decent leather on wheels with a reclining action... all was wrong was a bolt was missing at bottom of one of arms and seat kept popping out one side... I fixed it with a plastic tie wrap and it's good as new!!! Had it for about 2-3 years now!!!


I've also got a set of jamo (D 165) speakers that I picked up outside a house where they were getting thrown away and there for anyone to pick up if wanted!!!

Work like new!!!

One of The cones had the middle bit pushed in but I sucked it out with a light blast of my hoover!!!


I love a bit of recycling!!!

eyeupp...its stig of the dump

victorismyhero wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Anyway, JSA is supposed to be a temporary thing to help people whilst they find a job - it's not supposed to be an alternative.

thing is ragga, thats fine ...except that there are not enough jobs to go round, and even fewer of those are "proper jobs" on decent wages, with pensions and such like.

the whole situation is now geared towards exploitation, rather than employment and even labour are complicit in this...

Proper jobs with pensions? If you wait for one of those, you'll wait for ever. People need to start somewhere, and moaning that they can't afford beer every night isn't going to help them. Where I work we find it quite hard to recruit people actually, and it's not because I work there - honest.

Raggamuffin wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:

thing is ragga, thats fine ...except that there are not enough jobs to go round, and even fewer of those are "proper jobs" on decent wages, with pensions and such like.

the whole situation is now geared towards exploitation, rather than employment and even labour are complicit in this...

Proper jobs with pensions? If you wait for one of those, you'll wait for ever. People need to start somewhere, and moaning that they can't afford beer every night isn't going to help them. Where I work we find it quite hard to recruit people actually, and it's not because I work there - honest.

try offering them a decent wage, with contributory pension ....

perhaps you are ALL so bloody miserable because of the job/conditions it makes for a "bad place to work " atmosphere....I have been in places like that...once walked away from an interview precicely because such an atmosphere existed.....

Tommy Monk wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


People do put old TVs outside to be taken by whoever wants them... happens all the time with stuff... I picked up a decent shredder and couple of printers about a year ago as well as a few year old pc and CRT screen which I gave away to another friend.


Just in the last 3 months or so I have seen a couple of fridge freezers, some furniture, cupboards etc while driving about... in fact my computer chair was picked up from outside a house as I was driving past... decent leather on wheels with a reclining action... all was wrong was a bolt was missing at bottom of one of arms and seat kept popping out one side... I fixed it with a plastic tie wrap and it's good as new!!! Had it for about 2-3 years now!!!


I've also got a set of jamo (D 165) speakers that I picked up outside a house where they were getting thrown away and there for anyone to pick up if wanted!!!

Work like new!!!

One of The cones had the middle bit pushed in but I sucked it out with a light blast of my hoover!!!


I love a bit of recycling!!!

No comment on this KD...?

sure

People do put old TVs outside to be taken by whoever wants them ,wrong

people put out things for council uplift other wise its dumping (illegal ) if you take it its theft and you can be prosecuted (called theft by finding)

fridges and freezers tend to be put out because they are broken or in a unsafe/unhealty condition people tend to sell working ones that are still in good nick or give them to friends also when you pit a fridge or freezer out you are required to remove the door for safety reasons

as to your speakers once again theft i am afraid
i do understand your point however in reality your stealing when you remove stuff from the road side

I would also suggest that anyone who has a job saves for a rainy day, and don't bother to tell me they can't. People spend money on silly things they don't really need just because they can.

One thing.stems sure Elmer... I dont live in a palace... it's no dump!!!

korban dallas wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


No comment on this KD...?

sure

People do put old TVs outside to be taken by whoever wants them ,wrong

people put out things for council uplift other wise its dumping (illegal ) if you take it its theft and you can be prosecuted (called theft by finding)

fridges and freezers tend to be put out because they are broken or in a unsafe/unhealty condition people tend to sell working ones that are still in good nick or give them to friends also when you pit a fridge or freezer out you are required to remove the door for safety reasons

as to your speakers once again theft i am afraid
i do understand your point however in reality your stealing when you remove stuff from the road side

Stealing it from whom? Whoever dumped it there? If they want it to be taken away properly, they should leave a note on it to say why it's there.

I think Tommy is very resourceful - the sign of a non-leftie.

bear in mind also that not everybody is "starting"....many job seekers these days have had jobs that paid well and had various benefits like pension and health care packages.....and some hvnt got time to "wait" .

the system need a kick up the arse...

victorismyhero wrote:bear in mind also that not everybody is "starting"....many job seekers these days have had jobs that paid well and had various benefits like pension and health care packages.....and some hvnt got time to "wait" .

the system need a kick up the arse...

Wait for what? If they had good jobs, they also had the chance to save up whilst they could.

Raggamuffin wrote:I would also suggest that anyone who has a job saves for a rainy day, and don't bother to tell me they can't. People spend money on silly things they don't really need just because they can.

they DO...ITS CALLED National insurance
 DOH!!!!!!

11.5 % of everything earned I understand

many years ago we used to go to the local dump looking for scrap and stuff we could fix you are no longer allowed to do that

my best friend is what was called a rag and bone man many years ago butthe govenment knocked that kid of thing on the head you need a serpa licence and other licence to do that nower days fridges and freezer have a whole set of rules for disposal just putting them on the kreb is against the law