Ex-Jehovah's Witness schoolgirl exposes organisation as a religion that 'destroys lives'

by Guest Mon May 25, 2015 9:44 am

First topic message reminder :

A schoolgirl who left the Jehovah’s Witnesses after learning of its alleged failure to protect vulnerable women has blasted the organisation in a powerful speech to her classmates. Holding back tears, she recalled her personal experiences as a member of the church and how she was taught everyone outside the religion, including her father, would be sent to Armageddon.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/exjehovahs-witness-schoolgirl-exposes-organisation-as-a-religion-that-destroys-lives-10273064.html

by Raggamuffin Tue May 26, 2015 3:24 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes. I think that if you want to defend your faith, that's fine, but sometimes you can't be bothered to defend it against people who really have no business judging you or your faith anyway. If it pisses you off, just don't read it.

I'm basically disagreeing with HF, but he's not judging me for that, and I'm not judging him - it can be done.
cheers raggs, it can be done, it does get boring when you end up just defending attack after attack even when it is obvious they are not looking for answers...

You're right - they're usually not looking for answers, they just want to catch you out and then crow that you're not a "real" Christian, or they want to spout the Bible at you, even though they don't believe in any of it. If they are genuinely interested in your views, you will know by who is asking, and the tone they use. Laughing

by Guest Tue May 26, 2015 4:30 pm

Dear me, so now the Christians on here invent things to make themselves out to be victims, so they can feel better about themselves..
If Veya or I hated Christians are views would be that all Christians are evil and wrong, which is certainly not the case. Just as I am highly critical of bad ideas in Islam, I am of the same view with Christianty even more so in its literal sense.
The problem is with some here they do as some Muslims do and play the victim card of discrmination if their faith is challenged. That is nothing more that a fallacy and a ruse to try to censur any rightlful criticism of a faith. The reality is the vast majority of Christians and Muslims do not adhere to many of the bad ideas found in the faith, but sadly some do and more so in Islam. What I see more than anything happenning today within Islam is what once happened in the West, the fear of secularism taking a grip in that society and we thus see this being countered, more so by extremism, which overspills into violence between Islamic sects.

But please spare me the victim card and false accusationd to hating Christians. As if pointing out discrmination and wrongs found in the bible is some how wrong to some Christians here, then clearly it is they who are defending all that is found to be wrong in that faith. You may convince each other is this fallacy of Christian hatred, but it is nothing more than a complete sham. The reality is I have seen HF everytime unable to answer points with Korben, Victor, myself and countless others start to act very immature and even offensive, because he has no intention of listening to what others are telling him. Dibs is lovely except when her husband is here, when she first came back it was all very pleasant conversations, HF returned and it dramatically changed, which saddens me.

You can try as I say to convince yourselves of being the victims but when HF constantly makes derogatory remarks in regards to homosexuality and ethnic groups, he has shown up the worst you can find within a human and to me lacks any Christian values. That is what bugs and disappoints people more that someone who claims to be Christian has little grace or love for others and is in fact extremely nasty.

by Tommy Monk Tue May 26, 2015 4:32 pm

Did you miss my earlier post at the bottom of the last page dodge?

by Guest Tue May 26, 2015 4:38 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Belatucadros wrote:

You are continuing to talk utter shit as per usual.
I have stated from the start Islam is also a death cult, so stating what Muhammad may have done based off dubious hadiths is lame, I don;t discount he waged war and killed prisoners who he deemed as traitors.

Explain Revelations?
Explain why Christians worship the "death" and resurrection of Jesus?
Why is the religion centered on "death" and resurrection?
Explain biblical Prophets charged to commit Herem?
Explain why Jesus is meant to return at the head of an army and commit Herem?
Explain why Jesus will resurrect the dead when he returns?
Explain why the ultimate wish of literal Christians is the "end of times"?

Who wrote those bits of the bible dodge...!?
Are they actually stories about Jesus's life...!?
No!
I repeat...
Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love.

Islam is based on the LIFE of Mohammed and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being evil, full of war, death and destruction.

Complete ignorance again.
Again the book is claimed to be the word of God by Christians.
Do you understand this? You cannot pick and choose based off their beliefs what is relevant or irrelvant and shows why you are pig ignorant on theology.
Do you understand what a literal believer is?
Are you trying to claim now that Christians should noyt believe in any other parts of the bible and just ignore them now?
Again you clearly have not read the bible either because I can point ouit many aspects where Jesus is not nice, like for example where he advocates family abandonment.

So again:

Explain Revelations?
Explain why Christians worship the "death" and resurrection of Jesus?
Why is the religion centered on "death" and resurrection?
Explain biblical Prophets charged to commit Herem?
Explain why Jesus is meant to return at the head of an army and commit Herem?
Explain why Jesus will resurrect the dead when he returns?
Explain why the ultimate wish of literal Christians is the "end of times"?

by Tommy Monk Tue May 26, 2015 4:57 pm

Christianity started before the bible existed... so Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love!!!

lol!

You really are a tit sometimes dodge!!!

by Guest Tue May 26, 2015 5:02 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Christianity started before the bible existed... so Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love!!!

You really are a tit sometimes dodge!!!

Christianity did start before the bible, as the bible did not exist as a complete book before the council of Nicea in 325AD. It is a collection of works deemed to be the word of God. As it was here that it was decided what books would form the Bible, but all the books are deemed as the word of God to Christians.
Are you denying that Christians believe the bible is the word of God?

Like I say your ignorance on theology knows no limits it seems.

Now that is what they call egg on face big time for Tommy.

Now again

Again the book is claimed to be the word of God by Christians.
Do you understand this? You cannot pick and choose based off their beliefs what is relevant or irrelvant and shows why you are pig ignorant on theology.
Do you understand what a literal believer is?
Are you trying to claim now that Christians should noyt believe in any other parts of the bible and just ignore them now?
Again you clearly have not read the bible either because I can point ouit many aspects where Jesus is not nice, like for example where he advocates family abandonment.

Explain Revelations?
Explain why Christians worship the "death" and resurrection of Jesus?
Why is the religion centered on "death" and resurrection?
Explain biblical Prophets charged to commit Herem?
Explain why Jesus is meant to return at the head of an army and commit Herem?
Explain why Jesus will resurrect the dead when he returns?
Explain why the ultimate wish of literal Christians is the "end of times"?

Back later and I wonder how many more times Tommy will continue to avoid answering and look a complete dick

by Tommy Monk Tue May 26, 2015 5:08 pm

So now you admit that Christianity started before the bible existed...!!!???

Therefore Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love!!!

lol!

You really are a tit sometimes dodge!!!

And You now say you can't pick and choose bits of the bible... but tat is exactly what the people who wrote the bible did!!!

lol!

What a twat!!!

by Raggamuffin Tue May 26, 2015 5:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Christianity started before the bible existed... so Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love!!!

You really are a tit sometimes dodge!!!

Yes, it is Tommy.

by Raggamuffin Tue May 26, 2015 5:27 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:If the blood isn't contaminated then what is the problem it saves the life of a person

Well I'm not a JW, so I'm not an expert, but they believe that they should abstain from blood because of some things it says in the Bible.

I guess that they think it's more important to follow their beliefs than to live and not follow them.

http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/jehovahs-witnesses-why-no-blood-transfusions/

by Raggamuffin Tue May 26, 2015 5:32 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:So now you admit that Christianity started before the bible existed...!!!???

Therefore Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love!!!

You really are a tit sometimes dodge!!!

And You now say you can't pick and choose bits of the bible... but tat is exactly what the people who wrote the bible did!!!

What a twat!!!

Oh dear, has the "cherry picking" issue arisen? It's never long before that happens. Laughing

by Guest Tue May 26, 2015 5:56 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:So now you admit that Christianity started before the bible existed...!!!???
Therefore Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love!!!
You really are a tit sometimes dodge!!!
And You now say you can't pick and choose bits of the bible... but tat is exactly what the people who wrote the bible did!!!

What a twat!!!

I really now feel utterly sorry for you now Tommy Blooper because as seen you are incredibly stupid.
So not only have you just argued inadvertently that no Christian should be against homosexuality, I completely agree based on he never made any views on this but that Christianity is indeed man made just like countless other religions.

So I agree that is what the people who compiled the bible did.

However this is why you are a complete idiot.

To many Christians and the Christian denominations, the Bible is seen as the word of God or divinely inspired. So your argument is as stupid as it gets, as this is not a debate on whether the bible is true or what should be a part of the bible it is about what Christians actually believe. It is about what these beliefs entail and that what they follow is that of a death cult

So so you understand that Tommy Blooper?

So lets dumb this down.

Do you understand that the vast majority of Christians view the bible as either the word of god or is divinely inspired by God?

by Tommy Monk Tue May 26, 2015 6:03 pm

My point was on the fact that Christianity existed long before the ahake and that Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love!!!

You have now admitted this to be true!!!

So we now both agree on these simple facts!!!

Well done!!!

lol!

by Guest Tue May 26, 2015 6:08 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:My point was on the fact that Christianity existed long before the ahake and that Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love!!!
You have now admitted this to be true!!!
So we now both agree on these simple facts!!!
Well done!!!

PMSL, yes I do agree it is made up bullshit, however that is irrelevant to what Christians believe and what Christianity is to the many denominations of Christianity, of which through their beliefs it is a death Cult, proving how you had from the very start utterly no argument and made yourself look a complete idiot.

Here is why you are incredibly stupid.
I called "Christianity" a death cult of which it is.
You then argued not on Christianity itself but "your" view of the life of Jesus, even though then any view to Jesus is made redundant as completely unreliable as you agree it is compiled later. Thus then there is no way to tell whether Jesus was good or anything good attributed to him was good and for all we know he was nothing more than a Zealot, would be Messiah who failed and was crucified and then people made up bullshit about him to make him look good.

You see how stupid you are Tommy Blooper and how even your own argument falls apart ha ha ha ha ha.

So you argued off the life, of your beliefs of Jesus, which was not my argument, mine was Christianity being a death cult based off what Christians believe themselves based on the many Christian denominations.

Now that is how you completely educate a simpleton on simple theology.

Laughing

by Tommy Monk Tue May 26, 2015 6:50 pm

The stories of Jesus were widely known before the compilation of the bible...

And my points stand!

I don't know why you are getting so wound up when you agree with me that Christianity started before the bible existed And Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love!!!

lol!

by Guest Tue May 26, 2015 7:11 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The stories of Jesus were widely known before the compilation of the bible...
And my points stand!
I don't know why you are getting so wound up when you agree with me that Christianity started before the bible existed And Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love!!!

You have no point Tommy Blooper as seen your own argument contradicts. If you take the view that the bible was compiled much later, then how do you account for if any of the stories are reliable? You admitted yourself that the Bible was compiled later and it is from the bible that you take your views of how Jesus was. You stated:

And You now say you can't pick and choose bits of the bible... but tat is exactly what the people who wrote the bible did!!!

So there is no way of knowing what if indeed is true or in fact all made up, where some even argue whether Jesus existed at all. Now there is an inexhaustible amount of works written about Jesus not included in the bible. The Gospel of Thomas, The Gospel of Phillip, are just some of numerous works omitted from the Bible. All written long after his death, which then you have try and piece together what is if any reliable from these accounts. So if we go off any works as you are doing is still ignoring the fact this debate and point was on the belief of Christianity itself, not your choice choosing of parts of works written about him, of which you are doing.

You neglect that Christianity is a belief system very much centered around his death, otherwise the belief system is redundant without him dying. The story would be very crap if he came down preached peace and then ascended into heaven later. That would be the same as done before by other Prophets in the Old Testament, Elijah, being one of them. It is fundamental that he dies and sacrifices himself for this belief system to work. Thus it is very much fundamentally based on a belief based on the need to not only die, but sacrifice, a human sacrifice at that. That is so much on every aspect based on death.

So it matters not what you view of Jesus based from the books, that again falls apart based on your own admission of the books being thus unreliable based on pick and choose. What was being stated is based on Christianity itself as a belief system, as seen a death cult.

Now the Jewish Talmud makes references to Jesus Tommy Blooper:

Sanhedrin 43a relates the trial and execution of a sorcerer named Jesus ("Yeshu" in Hebrew) and his five disciples. The sorcerer is stoned and hanged on the Eve of Passover.
Sanhedrin 107 tells of a Jesus ("Yeshu") "offended his teacher by paying too much attention to the inn-keeper's wife. Jesus wished to be forgiven, but [his rabbi] was too slow to forgive him, and Jesus in despair went away and put up a brick [idol] and worshipped it."
In Gittin 56b, 57aa story is mentioned in which Onkelos summons up the spirit of a Yeshu who sought to harm Israel. He describes his punishment in the afterlife as boiling in excrement.
Some critics claim that the Hebrew name Yeshu is not a short form of the name Yeshua, but rather an acrostic for the Hebrew phrase "may his name and memory be blotted out" created by taking the first letter of the Hebrew words.In addition, at the 1240 Disputation of Paris, Donin presented the allegation that the Talmud was blasphemous towards Mary, the mother of Jesus, ("Miriam" in Hebrew) and this criticism has been repeated by many Christian sources. The texts cited by critics include Sanhedrin 67a, Sanhedrin 106a, and Shabbath 104b. However, the references to Mary are not specific, and some assert that they do not refer to Jesus' mother, or perhaps refer to Mary Magdalen.

Not exactly a glowing reference to Jesus Tommy, is it? So i you want to argue over the life of Jesus, I am very happy to show you up on that also and give you an education on historicity, please just say the word? This though was about Christianity as its belief system, of where the vast majority of Christians take the bible as the literal word of God or divinely inspired. Where in each case they all believe that Jesus dies as a human sacrifice and then raises from the dead and even more so believe he will return at the head of an army, raising all of the dead.

I can even show you works on Jesus omitted that show Jesus being very nasty.

Jesus was provoked and said unto him, "Thou shalt not finish thy course." And immediately he fell down and died.

-- Infancy Gospel of Thomas 4:1

Jesus said, "I know that these thy words are not thine: nevertheless for thy sake I will hold my peace: but they shall bear their punishment." And straightway they that accused him were smitten with blindness.

-- Infancy Gospel of Thomas 5:1

So Tommy Blooper, at every point you really have looked a complete idiot.

Laughing

by Tommy Monk Tue May 26, 2015 8:25 pm

Not all dodge, my points stand...

Christianity started before the bible existed And Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love!!!

lol!

You have agreed with this and at the same time argue... It is A most confusing/confused position you hold...!!!

lol!

by Guest Tue May 26, 2015 8:29 pm

As seen I made you look a complete dick Tommy Blooper.
The only think I agreed on is how unreliable it is, but not to Christians of course, which the point was on Christianity, which was made better by your contradicting yourself using what you have read on the bible as your views to Jesus. Even now you cannot counter any of the points lol.

I thoroughly enjoyed it as well.

So you can do your usual poker tell showing you have conceded, and post your continued denial also, but I am very happy. So continue to post, it does not in anyway stop you looking an idiot here.

Laughing

by Tommy Monk Tue May 26, 2015 8:35 pm

My point on Mohammed still stands too!

by Ben Reilly Tue May 26, 2015 10:26 pm

I think it's pretty generally accepted that Christians follow the Bible -- the whole of the New Testament and as much of the Old Testament as they can stomach. You walk into a Christian church and ask a Christian minister for a Christian bible, it's going to contain the same 66-73 books as any other of the major versions of the Bible.

If someone wants to say they only follow the Gospels, that's fine, but they should distinguish themselves from mainstream Christianity if they do. I doubt there are many Christians who believe that Revelation is any more disposable than Genesis.

by Ben Reilly Tue May 26, 2015 10:30 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:My point on Mohammed still stands too!

No it doesn't -- the Quran isn't about the life of Mohammed at all. Mohammed is only mentioned four times in the entire book. For comparison, Jesus is mentioned nearly 30 times in the Quran.

by Guest Tue May 26, 2015 10:45 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
cheers raggs, it can be done, it does get boring when you end up just defending attack after attack even when it is obvious they are not looking for answers...

You're right - they're usually not looking for answers, they just want to catch you out and then crow that you're not a "real" Christian, or they want to spout the Bible at you, even though they don't believe in any of it. If they are genuinely interested in your views, you will know by who is asking, and the tone they use.

they don't have to spout for long before it is obvious they know nothing..lol

by Guest Tue May 26, 2015 10:49 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:My point on Mohammed still stands too!

No it doesn't -- the Quran isn't about the life of Mohammed at all. Mohammed is only mentioned four times in the entire book. For comparison, Jesus is mentioned nearly 30 times in the Quran.

mohammered is taken as being the perfect example of how a follower of islam should be, so it is all about him, they may mention Jesus but not the Jesus of the bible, it is their version of him....

by Guest Tue May 26, 2015 10:50 pm

I've shown many times what the bible thinks of gays, Jesus is the word of God, Jesus condemns homosexuality... it is quite simple...

by veya_victaous Tue May 26, 2015 11:32 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:So now you admit that Christianity started before the bible existed...!!!???
That is actually true... but not the Pauline version of Christianity
Coptic Christians in Egypt existed for centuries before Constantine compiled the bible followed by western christian

Therefore Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love!!!

Not quite, individual books existed from Jesus's lifetime. there would have been more texts BEFORE the creation of the bible. the Bible is a political work by an emperor trying to legitimizes his reign (plus his mum had been converted and even if you are emperor you have to keep your mother happy )

You really are a tit sometimes dodge!!!

And You now say you can't pick and choose bits of the bible... but tat is exactly what the people who wrote the bible did!!!
Okay is the irony of that lost on you that therefore the bible is NOT the word of god and just a book written by men

What a twat!!!

by Tommy Monk Tue May 26, 2015 11:36 pm

Here are The points I posted on Jesus and Mohammed on this thread...

Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love.

Islam is based on the LIFE of Mohammed and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being evil, full of war, death and destruction.

Dodge has admitted the first is true and veya has admitted the second is true.

by veya_victaous Tue May 26, 2015 11:39 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:I've shown many times what the bible thinks of gays, Jesus is the word of God, Jesus condemns homosexuality... it is quite simple...

Ahh but here is the rub
Jesus condemns those that would punish others for sin (preventing the Stoning of a whore)
and Jesus says love thy fellow man treat him as you would treat me.

So to discriminate against homosexuals is also a sin .. according to Jesus Wink

let he who is without sin cast the first stone....

Simply impossible for anyone to throw a stone
Ex-Jehovah's Witness schoolgirl exposes organisation as a religion that 'destroys lives' - Page 2 3893789544

Ex-Jehovah's Witness schoolgirl exposes organisation as a religion that 'destroys lives' - Page 2 3893789544

by Guest Tue May 26, 2015 11:42 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:I've shown many times what the bible thinks of gays, Jesus is the word of God, Jesus condemns homosexuality... it is quite simple...

Ahh but here is the rub
Jesus condemns those that would punish others for sin (preventing the Stoning of a whore)
and Jesus says love thy fellow man treat him as you would treat me.

So to discriminate against homosexuals is also a sin .. according to Jesus

let he who is without sin cast the first stone....

Simply impossible for anyone to throw a stone

Jesus came to stop the law and to bring Grace, if the gays repent and give their lives to Jesus they will be saved by his Grace... Smile

by Ben Reilly Tue May 26, 2015 11:43 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Here are The points I posted on Jesus and Mohammed on this thread...

Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love.

Islam is based on the LIFE of Mohammed and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being evil, full of war, death and destruction.

Dodge has admitted the first is true and veya has admitted the second is true.

The problem, Tommy, is that Islam isn't about Mohammed.

Furthermore, also unlike the Bible, the Quran does not contain the sayings of Prophet Mohammad, nor does it contain an account of Prophet Mohammad's life.

http://www.discoveringislam.org/the_quran.htm

by Ben Reilly Tue May 26, 2015 11:44 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:I've shown many times what the bible thinks of gays, Jesus is the word of God, Jesus condemns homosexuality... it is quite simple...

Ahh but here is the rub
Jesus condemns those that would punish others for sin (preventing the Stoning of a whore)
and Jesus says love thy fellow man treat him as you would treat me.

So to discriminate against homosexuals is also a sin .. according to Jesus

let he who is without sin cast the first stone....

Simply impossible for anyone to throw a stone

Jesus came to stop the law and to bring Grace, if the gays repent and give their lives to Jesus they will be saved by his Grace...

False:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Matthew 5:17

by Guest Tue May 26, 2015 11:47 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Jesus came to stop the law and to bring Grace, if the gays repent and give their lives to Jesus they will be saved by his Grace...

False:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Matthew 5:17

precisely what I said when he fulfilled the law he made the law of no effect on those who believe on him, the law still stands as the standard god will judge by for those who did not chose to believe....

by veya_victaous Tue May 26, 2015 11:47 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Here are The points I posted on Jesus and Mohammed on this thread...

Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love. And hating Capitalism the only time Jesus got violent was against merchants

Islam is based on the LIFE of Mohammed and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being evil, full of war, death and destruction. Not a single part of that statement is true

Dodge has admitted the first is true and veya has admitted the second is true.

Please read

the KORAN is not based on the life of Mohammad at all!!!! to a single bit of it is based on the life of Mohammad. Mohammad is just a man he is meant to be illiterate and occasionally spoken to by god via the angels he is more comparable to Moses than Jesus.

the history of Mohammad WHICH IS NOT PART of the Koran show multiple times the compete opposite where Mohammad was far ahead of his contemporaries in terms of kindness to the defeated. Most of his battles are won by converting the enemy.

by Guest Tue May 26, 2015 11:49 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Here are The points I posted on Jesus and Mohammed on this thread...

Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love. And hating Capitalism the only time Jesus got violent was against merchants

Islam is based on the LIFE of Mohammed and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being evil, full of war, death and destruction. Not a single part of that statement is true

Dodge has admitted the first is true and veya has admitted the second is true.

Please read

the KORAN is not based on the life of Mohammad at all!!!! to a single bit of it is based on the life of Mohammad. Mohammad is just a man he is meant to be illiterate and occasionally spoken to by god via the angels he is more comparable to Moses than Jesus.

the history of Mohammad WHICH IS NOT PART of the Koran show multiple times the compete opposite where Mohammad was far ahead of his contemporaries in terms of kindness to the defeated. Most of his battles are won by converting the enemy.

when you say ahead of his contempories do you mean in marrying 5 year olds and shagging them when they are 8...

who wrote the koran???

by veya_victaous Tue May 26, 2015 11:49 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:I've shown many times what the bible thinks of gays, Jesus is the word of God, Jesus condemns homosexuality... it is quite simple...

Ahh but here is the rub
Jesus condemns those that would punish others for sin (preventing the Stoning of a whore)
and Jesus says love thy fellow man treat him as you would treat me.

So to discriminate against homosexuals is also a sin .. according to Jesus

let he who is without sin cast the first stone....

Simply impossible for anyone to throw a stone

Jesus came to stop the law and to bring Grace, if the gays repent and give their lives to Jesus they will be saved by his Grace...

Doesn't matter what the gays do, if they go to hell that is their business ... FOR you to repent and give your life to Jesus you mast love them as you would him as they are your fellow man Wink

if you don't than you are a sinner too

by Ben Reilly Tue May 26, 2015 11:50 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Jesus came to stop the law and to bring Grace, if the gays repent and give their lives to Jesus they will be saved by his Grace...

False:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Matthew 5:17
precisely what I said when he fulfilled the law he made the law of no effect on those who believe on him, the law still stands as the standard god will judge by for those who did not chose to believe....

Do you understand what the words "stop" and "abolish" mean?

by Guest Tue May 26, 2015 11:51 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Jesus came to stop the law and to bring Grace, if the gays repent and give their lives to Jesus they will be saved by his Grace...

Doesn't matter what the gays do, if they go to hell that is their business ... FOR you to repent and give your life to Jesus you mast love them as you would him as they are your fellow man if you don't than you are a sinner too

what!!! you love the sinner but hate the sin, we want all peole to accept Jesus as their saviour but Christians should not condone any sin or anything that separates someone from God.

by Ben Reilly Tue May 26, 2015 11:52 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Jesus came to stop the law and to bring Grace, if the gays repent and give their lives to Jesus they will be saved by his Grace...

Doesn't matter what the gays do, if they go to hell that is their business ... FOR you to repent and give your life to Jesus you mast love them as you would him as they are your fellow man if you don't than you are a sinner too
what!!! you love the sinner but hate the sin, we want all peole to accept Jesus as their saviour but Christians should not condone any sin or anything that separates someone from God.

So yeah, as Veya said, you as a Christian are supposed to love people no matter what they do -- even if they're gay.

by Guest Wed May 27, 2015 12:00 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
what!!! you love the sinner but hate the sin, we want all peole to accept Jesus as their saviour but Christians should not condone any sin or anything that separates someone from God.

So yeah, as Veya said, you as a Christian are supposed to love people no matter what they do -- even if they're gay.

No no i am not, you do not condone sin or sinning as a Christian or anything that separates us from God...
If gays repent and accept Jesus as their saviour they will be saved, saved by Grace.. Smile

by veya_victaous Wed May 27, 2015 12:02 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Here are The points I posted on Jesus and Mohammed on this thread...

Christianity is based on the LIFE of Jesus and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being good, full of peace and love. And hating Capitalism the only time Jesus got violent was against merchants

Islam is based on the LIFE of Mohammed and the examples of his actions throughout his life... all being evil, full of war, death and destruction. Not a single part of that statement is true

Dodge has admitted the first is true and veya has admitted the second is true.

Please read

the KORAN is not based on the life of Mohammad at all!!!! to a single bit of it is based on the life of Mohammad. Mohammad is just a man he is meant to be illiterate and occasionally spoken to by god via the angels he is more comparable to Moses than Jesus.

the history of Mohammad WHICH IS NOT PART of the Koran show multiple times the compete opposite where Mohammad was far ahead of his contemporaries in terms of kindness to the defeated. Most of his battles are won by converting the enemy.
when you say ahead of his contempories do you mean in marrying 5 year olds and shagging them when they are 8...

who wrote the koran???

Mohammed wrote the Koran but it is meant to be a direct line from god via the angels one of the big parts of 'miracle' aspect is that Mohammad was illiterate and was a hill Shepherd with no way of knowing some of the detailed politics that he did (this could be propaganda however, we know well of politicians that try and claim lower call background to be 'the everyman's man')

and Marrying 5 year old is not out of the ordinary for that era Biblical laws say over 3 years old is appropriate to marry and it says 3 years an 1 day is ok to have intercourse with them.. Sop Mohammad was just following the BIBLE!!!!

In addition to what we have already brought forth on Isaac’s marriage to Rebecca, The Zohar, which is Translated/Commentary by Daniel Chanan Matt also makes mention that Isaac married Rebecca when she was three years old.

51. “She was three years old when he embraced her the youngest legal age a female can be-married. See M Niddah 5:4; Seder Olam Rabbah 1; Soferim, add. 1:4 Rashi on Genesis 25:20 Tosafot, Yevamot 61b, s.v. ve-khen; sekhe; Tov, Genesis 24:14.
Rebekah’s three years correspond to the three colors of the rainbow.
52. He engendered at sixty, generating fittingly… see Genesis 25:26. When Isaac fathered Jacob he was sixty years old, symbolizing the full sextet of sefirot from hesed through Yesod, thereby ensuring that Jacob would be complete. [2]

As you have read it is quite clear, a fact that Rebecca married Isaac when she was three years old. Furthermore, we have more evidence from Judaic Holy Book ‘Mishnah’, it gives more weight to the above references that girls as young as three years old were allowed to be betrothed by intercourse at the age of three. Although in Ancient Hebrew marriages girls were recommend to be married at the age of 12, there are laws in the Mishnah that give approval that once betrothed you can have sexual intercourse any-time after the age of three years old.

4. Jacob Neusner is an American academic scholar of Judaism. In the Book: ‘The Comparative Hermeneutics of Rabbinic Judaism: Seder Tohorot. Tohorot through Uqsin.’ The Jewish oral Torah i.e. Mishnah states,

M. 5:4 A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. And if a Levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her. And they are laible on her account because of the law [Prohibiting intercourse with] a married woman. And she imparts uncleanness to him who has intercourse with her [when she is menstruating] to convey uncleanness to the lower as to the upper layer. [If] she was married to a priest, she eats heave offering. [If] one of those who are unfit [for marriage] has intercourse with her, he has rendered her unfit to marry into priesthood. [If] one of all those who are forbidden in the Torah to have intercourse with her, he is put to death on her account, but she is free of responsibility

IRONY
yes HF that is why we hate your Bigotry... It separates you from god as you are not following Jesus teachings lovey eyes

by Guest Wed May 27, 2015 12:07 am

hmm it wasn't completed by those who remembered the erhmmm... events after his death and his baby bride never had any input either, you'll be saying there was no thighing going on next....

by Guest Wed May 27, 2015 12:09 am

didn't he try to make it as a prophet before and everyone thought he was an idiot so he he brought a gang of cut throats and muderers together, they attacked camel trains and stole and killed... or was that a different mohammered....

by veya_victaous Wed May 27, 2015 12:15 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:didn't he try to make it as a prophet before and everyone thought he was an idiot so he he brought a gang of cut throats and muderers together, they attacked camel trains and stole and killed... or was that a different mohammered....

fairytale from a hate site, with no basis in recorded history ... like Tommy you need to get information from people NOT affiliated with the KKK Rolling Eyes

by Guest Wed May 27, 2015 12:21 am

veya_victaous wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:didn't he try to make it as a prophet before and everyone thought he was an idiot so he he brought a gang of cut throats and muderers together, they attacked camel trains and stole and killed... or was that a different mohammered....

fairytale from a hate site, with no basis in recorded history ... like Tommy you need to get information from people NOT affiliated with the KKK

it's quite clear and easy to find...

the koran was finally compiled about 150 years after the death of mohammered....

by Ben Reilly Wed May 27, 2015 12:21 am

You know, HF, this again shows why Christianity isn't a good fit for you. You can't love everyone and treat them as though you were dealing with Jesus himself, which the Bible says you are (‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me'). You especially can't love people you disagree with, which is also in direct contradiction to what Jesus taught ('But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you').

by veya_victaous Wed May 27, 2015 12:23 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:hmm it wasn't completed by those who remembered the erhmmm... events after his death and his baby bride never had any input either, you'll be saying there was no thighing going on next....

easy mistake to make Smile

the texts written about Mohammad are not part of the Koran
the Koran consists of 114 Sura and considered the verbatim word of God and the final divine revelation revealed through the angel Jibrīl (Gabriel).

those other texts are part of the Sunna and are in collections of Hadith (traditions) and Sīra (biography of Mohammad)

by Guest Wed May 27, 2015 12:25 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:You know, HF, this again shows why Christianity isn't a good fit for you. You can't love everyone and treat them as though you were dealing with Jesus himself, which the Bible says you are (‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me'). You especially can't love people you disagree with, which is also in direct contradiction to what Jesus taught ('But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you').

Christianity fits me like a glove, I love the word of God and trust in it's truths, i spread the word of God where ever and when ever I can, do you think Jesus loved and tolerated any behaviour... you are sadly mistaken, a mistake often made by those who wish to believe they will be saved regardless of knowing Jesus as their saviour or not.

by Ben Reilly Wed May 27, 2015 12:26 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:You know, HF, this again shows why Christianity isn't a good fit for you. You can't love everyone and treat them as though you were dealing with Jesus himself, which the Bible says you are (‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me'). You especially can't love people you disagree with, which is also in direct contradiction to what Jesus taught ('But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you').
Christianity fits me like a glove, I love the word of God and trust in it's truths, i spread the word of God where ever and when ever I can, do you think Jesus loved and tolerated any behaviour... you are sadly mistaken, a mistake often made by those who wish to believe they will be saved regardless of knowing Jesus as their saviour or not.

You treat other people like shit, and Jesus never did that. If Jesus showed up before you right now you'd call him a dirty immigrant and kick him out of your house.

by Guest Wed May 27, 2015 12:28 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Christianity fits me like a glove, I love the word of God and trust in it's truths, i spread the word of God where ever and when ever I can, do you think Jesus loved and tolerated any behaviour... you are sadly mistaken, a mistake often made by those who wish to believe they will be saved regardless of knowing Jesus as their saviour or not.

You treat other people like shit, and Jesus never did that. If Jesus showed up before you right now you'd call him a dirty immigrant and kick him out of your house.

lol is this Jesus being nice and loving everyone...
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

No it is an example Of Jesus letting others know there is a required standard...

by Tommy Monk Wed May 27, 2015 12:30 am

Islam has nothing to do with Mohammed...!!!

lol!

I've heard it all now!!!

lol!

by Guest Wed May 27, 2015 12:32 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

You treat other people like shit, and Jesus never did that. If Jesus showed up before you right now you'd call him a dirty immigrant and kick him out of your house.
lol is this Jesus being nice and loving everyone...
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

No it is an example Of Jesus letting others know there is a required standard...

Nope, that was Jesus telling people off because they were taking advantage and being vile towards the weak. Something you do quite often.

by Guest Wed May 27, 2015 12:36 am

risingsun wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
lol is this Jesus being nice and loving everyone...
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

No it is an example Of Jesus letting others know there is a required standard...

Nope, that was Jesus telling people off because they were taking advantage and being vile towards the weak. Something you do quite often.

you are wrong as usual, it was Jesus speaking against people who would separate themselves and others From God..

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.

another example of Jesus not saying you guys do as yu like you are ok by me...

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