Pakistani terror group swears allegiance to Islamic State

First topic message reminder :

A Pakistani terror group has become the first in the region to break ranks and declare allegiance to the Islamic State that has seized power across Iraq and Syria.

This week it pledged to raise the Islamic State’s flag in South Asia and Khurasan – the historic name used by Islamist militants for an area covering Afghanistan and Pakistan.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/10955563/Pakistani-terror-group-swears-allegiance-to-Islamic-State.html

Surely it is now time to stop the black flag fliers in their tracks by whatever means to ensure we still have civilization in fifty years.

Didge wrote:That sounds political, not religious in any form what so ever, I find that a political interpretation.

That's your own view and you are entitle to it.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Didge wrote:That sounds political, not religious in any form what so ever, I find that a political interpretation.

That's your own view and you are entitle to it.

Well it was an article not basing anything as Islam being about Justice, but about the rights and wrongs perceived by the write of humanity, that is an interpretation, a political one. It does not claim Islam means Justice, just goes on about justice

Didge wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

That's your own view and you are entitle to it.

Well it was an article not basing anything as Islam being about Justice, but about the rights and wrongs perceived by the write of humanity, that is an interpretation, a political one. It does not claim Islam means Justice, just goes on about justice

Have a read

The Meaning of Justice

In the Islamic worldview, justice denotes placing things in their rightful place. It also means giving others equal treatment. In Islam, justice is also a moral virtue and an attribute of human personality, as it is in the Western tradition. Justice is close to equality in the sense that it creates a state of equilibrium in the distribution of rights and duties, but they are not identical. Sometimes, justice is achieved through inequality, like in unequal distribution of wealth. The Prophet of Islam declared:

“There are seven categories of people whom God will shelter under His shade on the Day when there will be no shade except His. [One is] the just leader.”(Saheeh Muslim)

God spoke to His Messenger in this manner:

“O My slaves, I have forbidden injustice for Myself and forbade it also for you. So avoid being unjust to one another.” (Saheeh Muslim)

Thus, justice represents moral rectitude and fairness, since it means things should be where they belong.

The Importance of Justice

The Quran, the sacred scripture of Islam, considers justice to be a supreme virtue. It is a basic objective of Islam to the degree that it stands next in order of priority to belief in God’s exclusive right to worship (Tawheed) and the truth of Muhammad’s prophethood. God declares in the Quran:

“God commands justice and fair dealing...” (Quran 16:90)

And in another passage:

“O you who believe, be upright for God, and (be) bearers of witness with justice!...” (Quran 5:

Therefore, one may conclude that justice is an obligation of Islam and injustice is forbidden. The centrality of justice to the Quranic value system is displayed by the following verse:

“We sent Our Messengers with clear signs and sent down with them the Book and the Measure in order to establish justice among the people…” (Quran 57:25)

The phrase ‘Our Messengers’ shows that justice has been the goal of all revelation and scriptures sent to humanity. The verse also shows that justice must be measured and implemented by the standards and guidelines set by revelation. Islam’s approach to justice is comprehensive and all-embracing. Any path that leads to justice is deemed to be in harmony with Islamic Law. God has demanded justice and, although He has not prescribed a specific route, has provided general guidelines, on how to achieve it. He has neither prescribed a fixed means by which it can be obtained, nor has He declared invalid any particular means or methods that can lead to justice. Therefore, all means, procedures, and methods that facilitate, refine, and advance the cause of justice, and do not violate the Islamic Law are valid.[1]

Equality in Justice

The Quranic standards of justice transcend considerations of race, religion, color, and creed, as Muslims are commanded to be just to their friends and foes alike, and to be just at all levels, as the Quran puts it:

“O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even if it be against yourselves, your parents, and your relatives, or whether it is against the rich or the poor...” (Quran 4:135)

According to another Quranic passage:

“Let not the hatred of a people swerve you away from justice. Be just, for this is closest to righteousness…” (Quran 5:

With regards to relations with non-Muslims, the Quran further states:

“God does not forbid you from doing good and being just to those who have neither fought you over your faith nor evicted you from your homes...” (Quran 60:

The scholars of the Quran have concluded that these rulings apply to all nations, followers of all faiths, as a matter of fact to all humanity.[2] In the view of the Quran, justice is an obligation. That is why the Prophet was told:

“…If you judge, judge between them with justice…” (Quran 5:42)

“We have revealed to you the scripture with the truth that you may judge between people by what God has taught you.” (Quran 4:105)

Furthermore, the Prophet was sent as a judge between peoples, and told:

“…Say: I believe in the Scripture, which God has sent down, and I am commanded to judge justly between you...” (Quran 42:15)

The Quran views itself as a scripture devoted mainly to laying down the principles of faith and justice. The Quran demands that justice be met for all, and that it is an inherent right of all human beings under Islamic Law.[3] The timeless commitment of the Quran to the basic standards of justice is found in its declaration:

“And the Word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice. None can change His Words.” (Quran 6:115)

To render justice is a trust that God has conferred on the human being and, like all other trusts, its fulfillment must be guided by a sense of responsibility beyond mere conformity to set rules. Thus, the Quran states:

“God commands you to render trusts to whom they are due, and when you judge between people, judge with justice…” (Quran 4:58)

The reference to justice which immediately follows a reference to fulfillment of trusts indicates that it is one of the most important of all trusts.[4]

Justice and the Self

The Quranic concept of justice also extends justice to being a personal virtue, and one of the standards of moral excellence that a believer is encouraged to attain as part of his God-consciousness. God says:

“…Be just, for it is closest to God-consciousness…” (Quran 5:

The Prophet himself instructed:

“Be conscious of God and be just to your children.”[5]

The Quran tells the believers:

“…When you speak, speak with justice, even if it is against someone close to you…” (Quran 6:152)

Specific Examples of Justice Encouraged in the Quran

The Quran also refers to particular instances and contexts of justice. One such instance is the requirement of just treatment of orphans. God says:

“And approach not the property of the orphan except in the fairest way, until he [or she] attains the age of full strength, and give measurement and weight with justice…” (Quran 6:152, also see 89:17, 93:9, and 107:2)

Fair dealings in measurements and weights, as mentioned in the above verse, is also mentioned in other passages where justice in the buying, selling, and by extension, to business transactions in general, is emphasized. There is an entire chapter of the Quran, Surah al-Mutaffifeen (‘The Detractors in Giving Weights,’ 83) where fraudulent dealers are threatened with divine wrath.

I did read it, all it is going on about is Justice within Islam, not that Islam means justice.
Every other explanations, has submission to the will of the deity.

Again even the heading states the "Meaning of Justice"
Not Islam means justice, it certainly is a part of Islam, that I agree, but not that it means this, which clearly shows this is an interpretation to what countless other Muslims think!

Didge wrote:I did read it, all it is going on about is Justice within Islam, not that Islam means justice.
Every other explanations, has submission to the will of the deity.

Again even the heading states the "Meaning of Justice"
Not Islam means justice, it certainly is a part of Islam, that I agree, but not that it means this, which clearly shows this is an interpretation to what countless other Muslims think!

You are not getting it.

Islam isnt about peace its about Justice. Hence the importance of it which I have showed you with both the articles.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Didge wrote:I did read it, all it is going on about is Justice within Islam, not that Islam means justice.
Every other explanations, has submission to the will of the deity.

Again even the heading states the "Meaning of Justice"
Not Islam means justice, it certainly is a part of Islam, that I agree, but not that it means this, which clearly shows this is an interpretation to what countless other Muslims think!

You are not getting it.

Islam isnt about peace its about Justice. Hence the importance of it which I have showed you with both the articles.

So you keep claiming, you might want to spell that out to countless scholars who seem to differ with you and of which all your article show was the meaning of justice

Didge wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

You are not getting it.

Islam isnt about peace its about Justice. Hence the importance of it which I have showed you with both the articles.

So you keep claiming, you might want to spell that out to countless scholars who seem to differ with you and of which all your article show was the meaning of justice

I don't need to spell out anything. Its what it literally means

Many say Islam means submission which it does to Allah but the religion itself means Justice not peace

Aslamaliykum ( the Muslim greeting) means may Allah's peace and blessings be upon you, which confuses many.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Didge wrote:


So you keep claiming, you might want to spell that out to countless scholars who seem to differ with you and of which all your article show was the meaning of justice

I don't need to spell out anything. Its what it literally means

Many say Islam means submission which it does to Allah but the religion itself means Justice not peace

Aslamaliykum ( the Muslim greeting) means may Allah's peace and blessings be upon you, which confuses many.

So many Imans agree with me and not you then, okay!

Thus clearly an interpretation issue

Didge wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

I don't need to spell out anything. Its what it literally means

Many say Islam means submission which it does to Allah but the religion itself means Justice not peace

Aslamaliykum ( the Muslim greeting) means may Allah's peace and blessings be upon you, which confuses many.

So many Imans agree with me and not you then, okay!

Thus clearly an interpretation issue

As it always is in Religion

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Didge wrote:


So many Imans agree with me and not you then, okay!

Thus clearly an interpretation issue

As it always is in Religion

Sitting here giggling, take him down to your mosque and tell the Iman that Didge is taking over.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Didge wrote:


So many Imans agree with me and not you then, okay!

Thus clearly an interpretation issue

As it always is in Religion

So only your view it means this as some others do, but many others disagree with you, which nobody knows, then.
Priceless

Sassy wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

As it always is in Religion

Sitting here giggling, take him down to your mosque and tell the Iman that Didge is taking over.    

Is there anything you can debate on like an adult, when clearly you have no clue on this?

Don't know if this helps?

In Arabic, the word “Islam” means submission or surrender – however, it was derived from the root word “salam”. From this root word, you can also derive the words peace and safety. Many people feel that Islam implies some sort of enslavement to Allah, but others find it more helpful to define the word “Islam” as surrender.

Many religions have a concept of surrender to God. In Jewish history, when the ancient Hebrews obeyed God’s commands, they had a long period of prosperity and stability.

In Christianity, surrendering to God is a way of putting your life into more capable hands – in fact, Jesus asked many of his disciples to surrender their livelihoods and follow him.

So, if we look at the word ‘Islam’ in this way, we can understand why obeying Allah’s commands and trusting in Allah’s wisdom could bring about peace for a Muslim.

The word does not represent a one-sided relationship, where the believer is enslaved to Allah. Rather, the word Islam indicates a covenant between Allah and his followers, where a Muslim surrenders his or her will to Allah in return for peace or safety.


http://muslimvoices.org/word-islam-meaning/

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

Correct. The IS seem to be ignoring the rules of Jihad. For example, spot executions of prisoners of war.  Not allowed.

Sure pale

Your peadophile prophet personally took part in the mass beheading of over 700 Jews

Isis are true Muslims you are a western whore no better than the kuffar

Ps are you loving Israel's arse raping of gaza??

eddie wrote:Don't know if this helps?

In Arabic, the word “Islam” means submission or surrender – however, it was derived from the root word “salam”. From this root word, you can also derive the words peace and safety. Many people feel that Islam implies some sort of enslavement to Allah, but others find it more helpful to define the word “Islam” as surrender.

Many religions have a concept of surrender to God. In Jewish history, when the ancient Hebrews obeyed God’s commands, they had a long period of prosperity and stability.

In Christianity, surrendering to God is a way of putting your life into more capable hands – in fact, Jesus asked many of his disciples to surrender their livelihoods and follow him.

So, if we look at the word ‘Islam’ in this way, we can understand why obeying Allah’s commands and trusting in Allah’s wisdom could bring about peace for a Muslim.

The word does not represent a one-sided relationship, where the believer is enslaved to Allah. Rather, the word Islam indicates a covenant between Allah and his followers, where a Muslim surrenders his or her will to Allah in return for peace or safety.


http://muslimvoices.org/word-islam-meaning/

Bollox

smelly_bandit wrote:

eddie wrote:Don't know if this helps?

In Arabic, the word “Islam” means submission or surrender – however, it was derived from the root word “salam”. From this root word, you can also derive the words peace and safety. Many people feel that Islam implies some sort of enslavement to Allah, but others find it more helpful to define the word “Islam” as surrender.

Many religions have a concept of surrender to God. In Jewish history, when the ancient Hebrews obeyed God’s commands, they had a long period of prosperity and stability.

In Christianity, surrendering to God is a way of putting your life into more capable hands – in fact, Jesus asked many of his disciples to surrender their livelihoods and follow him.

So, if we look at the word ‘Islam’ in this way, we can understand why obeying Allah’s commands and trusting in Allah’s wisdom could bring about peace for a Muslim.

The word does not represent a one-sided relationship, where the believer is enslaved to Allah. Rather, the word Islam indicates a covenant between Allah and his followers, where a Muslim surrenders his or her will to Allah in return for peace or safety.


http://muslimvoices.org/word-islam-meaning/

Bollox

agree

Didge wrote:I did read it, all it is going on about is Justice within Islam, not that Islam means justice.
Every other explanations, has submission to the will of the deity.

Again even the heading states the "Meaning of Justice"
Not Islam means justice, it certainly is a part of Islam, that I agree, but not that it means this, which clearly shows this is an interpretation to what countless other Muslims think!

I'm back.  I've been away for a day and could not continue to share in this discussion.

Didge, I have the same confusion.  I really appreciate SM providing so much information about Islam...I have really learned from it.  But this insistence, without explanation, that Islam is Justice is what I was hoping to discuss.

Justice is an abstraction.  An abstraction only has meaning if you fill it in...give it flesh and bone. As someone who has worked in the Justice field for over 30-years, I can honestly say that I don't think justice has anything to do with "good".  It is more of a mathematical equation, if you will.  You have to give it meaning before it takes on meaning.

Most of what I see as justice is revenge.  The mathematical equation is imposed on a reality where someone feels something bad has happened.  Look at all of the examples.  Criminal law is nothing but revenge.  Civil lawsuits pursue redress for something wrong--again revenge.  Perhaps constitutional law seeks something other than revenge, but only in the sense that it is architectonic: using cases to parse together policy, supreme courts function really as grand legislatures.  That kind of justice is built, not natural., as you would expect a religion to be.

I'm left with the unfortunate feeling, SM, that you are saying that Islam is revenge.  And that comports with what I'm seeing around the world today.  Islam has no context.  It is anger and revenge, seeking a context.  And if no context is supplied, a script will be written.  We've got a villain over here in Israel.  Maybe the US and the UK.  We've got the sweet babes of the Palestinians.  We've got the avengers, al Qaeda or Hamas or Iran.  Well, you get the point.  A script is being written as they go along.

I'll pause here.  I was hoping you could lift me out of this perception.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:I did read it, all it is going on about is Justice within Islam, not that Islam means justice.
Every other explanations, has submission to the will of the deity.

Again even the heading states the "Meaning of Justice"
Not Islam means justice, it certainly is a part of Islam, that I agree, but not that it means this, which clearly shows this is an interpretation to what countless other Muslims think!

I'm back.  I've been away for a day and could not continue to share in this discussion.

Didge, I have the same confusion.  I really appreciate SM providing so much information about Islam...I have really learned from it.  But this insistence, without explanation, that Islam is Justice is what I was hoping to discuss.

Justice is an abstraction.  An abstraction only has meaning if you fill it in...give it flesh and bone. As someone who has worked in the Justice field for over 30-years, I can honestly say that I don't think justice has anything to do with "good".  It is more of a mathematical equation, if you will.  You have to give it meaning before it takes on meaning.

Most of what I see as justice is revenge.  The mathematical equation is imposed on a reality where someone feels something bad has happened.  Look at all of the examples.  Criminal law is nothing but revenge.  Civil lawsuits pursue redress for something wrong--again revenge.  Perhaps constitutional law seeks something other than revenge, but only in the sense that it is architectonic: using cases to parse together policy, supreme courts function really as grand legislatures.  That kind of justice is built, not natural., as you would expect a religion to be.

I'm left with the unfortunate feeling, SM, that you are saying that Islam is revenge.  And that comports with what I'm seeing around the world today.  Islam has no context.  It is anger and revenge, seeking a context.  And if no context is supplied, a script will be written.  We've got a villain over here in Israel.  Maybe the US and the UK.  We've got the sweet babes of the Palestinians.  We've got the avengers, al Qaeda or Hamas or Iran.  Well, you get the point.  A script is being written as they go along.

I'll pause here.  I was hoping you could lift me out of this perception.

Hi Quill

That is a very apt way of looking at this and you explained it better than I ever could. What does strike me though is how many have viewed their Abrahamic faith throughout the ages, where they have a literal view? If we read these 3 faiths they are based on revenge to those who do not follow that faith in the this life and the claim to a hear after. Is this the fundamental flaw in these faiths, that they think they have divine right to deliver out punishments? To be honest I never looked at this claim as revenge until you pointed it out and is not a concept I have heard from a Muslim before, where to me, even the links do not claim this is what Islam means, but if it does, then that is a very grave concern, especially if this is what they are teaching.

Excellent points by the way.

Didge, I have the same confusion. I really appreciate SM providing so much information about Islam...I have really learned from it.

 ::D:: 

Good joke quill

smelly_bandit wrote:Didge, I have the same confusion.  I really appreciate SM providing so much information about Islam...I have really learned from it.

 ::D:: 

Good joke quill

Haha...I guess you were the neighborhood spoiler. Or, cynic. You're like the kid who has to smash everybody's sand castles. But that's ok.

I found value in what SM posted. It was long, and we all know that if you have to read for comprehension, you can only do it on the crapper with one on the way. S'only time your body can muster the energy. Lol. Perhaps the kids were banging on the door. Maybe you couldn't concentrate. Anyway, it eluded you.

But what SM posted did not address my concern. I was hoping to have a meaningful dialogue. Her response to Nems was a bit evasive: is it an answer to prejudice toward women that your adversary does it too? Seems to me you would want to extinguish a fire wherever you find it.

So, I condensed my concern in a single post. SM, what you said about Islam being about justice made sense to me. Struck a chord. I have spent decades trying to deal with justice. The one thing I have learned is that it is not about goodness and mercy. Justice is about equivalency. Every time we find something out-of-balance, we try to "right" it. Indeed, the symbol for justice is a woman with a set of scales. To us, that means that justice is about correcting something. And unless we are talking about poetic justice, or discussing a Greek tragedy, justice generally means revenge.

And here comes your statement that Islam is about justice. It is justice. The scales. There is an out-of-balance in the world, and one (Islam?) is trying to fix it. That's what registered to me in your statement.

If I am pursuing the right idea, it explains a lot. Only such a mission of retribution would mete out such harshness. And you have to admit, at least a substantial part of Muslims feel that harshness in the world is appropriate.

Now I'm a christian chaiitist, and the central theme there is humanism. Contrast that with justice, and you can almost feel the cruelty--the inhumanity--of Islam. And that thought comports with Islamic action. That's why so much of it shocks the conscience of the westerner.

Am I wrong? If so, show me where. I see anger and cruelty in the Muslim world, and here is someone telling me that retribution (justice) is the core value of Islam. Untie that knot if I am wrong.

Original Quill wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:Didge, I have the same confusion.  I really appreciate SM providing so much information about Islam...I have really learned from it.

 ::D:: 

Good joke quill

Haha...I guess you were the neighborhood spoiler.  Or, cynic.  You're like the kid who has to smash everybody's sand castles.  But that's ok.

I found value in what SM posted.  It was long, and we all know that if you have to read for comprehension, you can only do it on the crapper with one on the way.  S'only time your body can muster the energy. Lol.  Perhaps the kids were banging on the door.  Maybe you couldn't concentrate.  Anyway, it eluded you.

But what SM posted did not address my concern.  I was hoping to have a meaningful dialogue.  Her response to Nems was a bit evasive: is it an answer to prejudice toward women that your adversary does it too?  Seems to me you would want to extinguish a fire wherever you find it.

So, I condensed my concern in a single post.  SM, what you said about Islam being about justice made sense to me.  Struck a chord.  I have spent decades trying to deal with justice.  The one thing I have learned is that it is not about goodness and mercy.  Justice is about equivalency.  Every time we find something out-of-balance, we try to "right" it.  Indeed, the symbol for justice is a woman with a set of scales.  To us, that means that justice is about correcting something.  And unless we are talking about poetic justice, or discussing a Greek tragedy, justice generally means revenge.

And here comes your statement that Islam is about justice.  It is justice.  The scales.  There is an out-of-balance in the world, and one (Islam?) is trying to fix it.  That's what registered to me in your statement.

If I am pursuing the right idea, it explains a lot.  Only such a mission of retribution would mete out such harshness.  And you have to admit, at least a substantial part of Muslims feel that harshness in the world is appropriate.  

Now I'm a christian chaiitist, and the central theme there is humanism.  Contrast that with justice, and you can almost feel the cruelty--the inhumanity--of Islam.  And that thought comports with Islamic action.  That's why so much of it shocks the conscience of the westerner.

Am I wrong?  If so, show me where.  I see anger and cruelty in the Muslim world, and here is someone telling me that retribution (justice) is the core value of Islam.  Untie that knot if I am wrong.

What a good post.

Thx eds.
xx

Original Quill wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:Didge, I have the same confusion.  I really appreciate SM providing so much information about Islam...I have really learned from it.

 ::D:: 

Good joke quill

Haha...I guess you were the neighborhood spoiler.  Or, cynic.  You're like the kid who has to smash everybody's sand castles.  But that's ok.

I found value in what SM posted.  It was long, and we all know that if you have to read for comprehension, you can only do it on the crapper with one on the way.  S'only time your body can muster the energy. Lol.  Perhaps the kids were banging on the door.  Maybe you couldn't concentrate.  Anyway, it eluded you.

But what SM posted did not address my concern.  I was hoping to have a meaningful dialogue.  Her response to Nems was a bit evasive: is it an answer to prejudice toward women that your adversary does it too?  Seems to me you would want to extinguish a fire wherever you find it.

So, I condensed my concern in a single post.  SM, what you said about Islam being about justice made sense to me.  Struck a chord.  I have spent decades trying to deal with justice.  The one thing I have learned is that it is not about goodness and mercy.  Justice is about equivalency.  Every time we find something out-of-balance, we try to "right" it.  Indeed, the symbol for justice is a woman with a set of scales.  To us, that means that justice is about correcting something.  And unless we are talking about poetic justice, or discussing a Greek tragedy, justice generally means revenge.

And here comes your statement that Islam is about justice.  It is justice.  The scales.  There is an out-of-balance in the world, and one (Islam?) is trying to fix it.  That's what registered to me in your statement.

If I am pursuing the right idea, it explains a lot.  Only such a mission of retribution would mete out such harshness.  And you have to admit, at least a substantial part of Muslims feel that harshness in the world is appropriate.  

Now I'm a christian chaiitist, and the central theme there is humanism.  Contrast that with justice, and you can almost feel the cruelty--the inhumanity--of Islam.  And that thought comports with Islamic action.  That's why so much of it shocks the conscience of the westerner.

Am I wrong?  If so, show me where.  I see anger and cruelty in the Muslim world, and here is someone telling me that retribution (justice) is the core value of Islam.  Untie that knot if I am wrong.

of course you found value in what mama said because it supports the image you CHOOSE to have.

if a person CHOOSE to hate jews that person will find value in what Hitler says

if a person CHOOSE to have a leftwing perspective then that person will find value in what lefty politicians and activists have to say

if a person CHOOSES to hate blacks then they will find value in what the KKK says

it doesn't mean that what Hitler or the leftist politicians or say is true, all it means is that their words are in synch with what the person/s listening want to believe

have you personally researched what mama said or simply followed like a sheep??

gerber wrote:

............ and not included in the list is the Indian continent...One of the largest populaces

.......................

  ANOTHER poorly researched ignorant gerbil opinion !

OVER two thirds of the population of the Indian Sub-continent are Hindus ==> over 1 billion...

ABOUT 15%-20% will be Muslim ~ maybe a third of those (i.e. 4-6% of the continent's human population) will be Islamist extremists..

THE balance are mostly from other major religions: i.e. Buddhist, Sikh, Christian.

MOST Muslims live outside of the Middle East-Pakistan region.. Indeed, Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei have more Muslims between them than those M.E. countries being discussed in this thread...   

smelly_bandit wrote:................................

if a person CHOOSE to hate jews that person will find value in what Hitler says

if a person CHOOSE to have a leftwing perspective then that person will find value in what lefty politicians and activists have to say

if a person CHOOSES to hate blacks then they will find value in what the KKK says

..................................

 

  

ANOTHER outstanding example of smelly's self-declared superior and exceptional mastery over English language, grammar and spelling...

FOR anyone still taking notice of anything he says..

JUST a pity that he had to buy a budget basement keyboard with no punctuation keys, isn't it ! ::smthg:: 

Lone Wolf wrote:

gerber wrote:

............ and not included in the list is the Indian continent...One of the largest populaces

.......................  

  ANOTHER poorly researched ignorant gerbil opinion !

OVER two thirds of the population of the Indian Sub-continent are Hindus ==> over 1 billion...

ABOUT 15%-20% will be Muslim ~ maybe a third of those (i.e. 4-6% of the continent's human population) will be Islamist extremists..

THE balance are mostly from other major religions: i.e. Buddhist, Sikh, Christian.

MOST Muslims live outside of the Middle East-Pakistan region.. Indeed, Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei have more Muslims between them than those M.E. countries being discussed in this thread...    

How many Germans were extremists in the 1930s?

Probably not all of them.

Should we have not gone to war with them?

smelly_bandit wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Haha...I guess you were the neighborhood spoiler.  Or, cynic.  You're like the kid who has to smash everybody's sand castles.  But that's ok.

I found value in what SM posted.  It was long, and we all know that if you have to read for comprehension, you can only do it on the crapper with one on the way.  S'only time your body can muster the energy. Lol.  Perhaps the kids were banging on the door.  Maybe you couldn't concentrate.  Anyway, it eluded you.

But what SM posted did not address my concern.  I was hoping to have a meaningful dialogue.  Her response to Nems was a bit evasive: is it an answer to prejudice toward women that your adversary does it too?  Seems to me you would want to extinguish a fire wherever you find it.

So, I condensed my concern in a single post.  SM, what you said about Islam being about justice made sense to me.  Struck a chord.  I have spent decades trying to deal with justice.  The one thing I have learned is that it is not about goodness and mercy.  Justice is about equivalency.  Every time we find something out-of-balance, we try to "right" it.  Indeed, the symbol for justice is a woman with a set of scales.  To us, that means that justice is about correcting something.  And unless we are talking about poetic justice, or discussing a Greek tragedy, justice generally means revenge.

And here comes your statement that Islam is about justice.  It is justice.  The scales.  There is an out-of-balance in the world, and one (Islam?) is trying to fix it.  That's what registered to me in your statement.

If I am pursuing the right idea, it explains a lot.  Only such a mission of retribution would mete out such harshness.  And you have to admit, at least a substantial part of Muslims feel that harshness in the world is appropriate.  

Now I'm a christian chaiitist, and the central theme there is humanism.  Contrast that with justice, and you can almost feel the cruelty--the inhumanity--of Islam.  And that thought comports with Islamic action.  That's why so much of it shocks the conscience of the westerner.

Am I wrong?  If so, show me where.  I see anger and cruelty in the Muslim world, and here is someone telling me that retribution (justice) is the core value of Islam.  Untie that knot if I am wrong.

of course you found value in what mama said because it supports the image you CHOOSE to have.

if a person CHOOSE to hate jews that person will find value in what Hitler says

if a person CHOOSE to have a leftwing perspective then that person will find value in what lefty politicians and activists have to say

if a person CHOOSES to hate blacks then they will find value in what the KKK says

it doesn't mean that what Hitler or the leftist politicians or say is true, all it means is that their words are in synch with what the  person/s listening want to believe

have you personally researched what mama said or simply followed like a sheep??
 

That really made me chuckle and I wonder if you can figure out why, the fifth and sixth sentence being the give away which applies to you most definitely.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Lone Wolf wrote:

  ANOTHER poorly researched ignorant gerbil opinion !

OVER two thirds of the population of the Indian Sub-continent are Hindus ==> over 1 billion...

ABOUT 15%-20% will be Muslim ~ maybe a third of those (i.e. 4-6% of the continent's human population) will be Islamist extremists..

THE balance are mostly from other major religions: i.e. Buddhist, Sikh, Christian.

MOST Muslims live outside of the Middle East-Pakistan region.. Indeed, Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei have more Muslims between them than those M.E. countries being discussed in this thread...    

How many Germans were extremists in the 1930s?

Probably not all of them.

Should we have not gone to war with them?

Well a good start would be the amount of people who were Sturmabteilung or SA, of which there was around 2 million by 1934, this is of course not counting the left wing extremists they battled with on the streets, then the amount of people smashing Jewish shops, burning books, so there was quite a few an I thought we did go to war with Germany in 1939.
History not one of your strong points I guess Andy

Gerber is also right though, India has the second highest population of Muslims, only second to Indonesia.

Didge wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:


How many Germans were extremists in the 1930s?

Probably not all of them.

Should we have not gone to war with them?

Well a good start would be the amount of people who were Sturmabteilung or SA, of which there was around 2 million by 1934, this is of course not counting the left wing extremists they battled with on the streets, then the amount of people smashing Jewish shops, burning books, so there was quite a few an I thought we did go to war with Germany in 1939.
History not one of your strong points I guess Andy

Gerber is also right though, India has the second highest population of Muslims, only second to Indonesia.

lol

You can tell you're not an Englishman didge.

With almost every single post.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Didge wrote:


Well a good start would be the amount of people who were Sturmabteilung or SA, of which there was around 2 million by 1934, this is of course not counting the left wing extremists they battled with on the streets, then the amount of people smashing Jewish shops, burning books, so there was quite a few an I thought we did go to war with Germany in 1939.
History not one of your strong points I guess Andy

Gerber is also right though, India has the second highest population of Muslims, only second to Indonesia.

lol

You can tell you're not an Englishman didge.

With almost every single post.

Because I am English and know far more of our great English history than you do Andy.
Sorry but your infantile insults is all you can come back with when I show you are a complete idiot as seen above.
Never mind happy to keep educating a simpleton

Lone Wolf wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:................................

if a person CHOOSE to hate jews that person will find value in what Hitler says

if a person CHOOSE to have a leftwing perspective then that person will find value in what lefty politicians and activists have to say

if a person CHOOSES to hate blacks then they will find value in what the KKK says

..................................

 

  

ANOTHER outstanding example of smelly's self-declared superior and exceptional mastery over English language, grammar and spelling...

FOR anyone still taking notice of anything he says..

JUST a pity that he had to buy a budget basement keyboard with no punctuation keys, isn't it !   ::smthg:: 

hows the nude bush walking dating service going dave??

if your gopping grid is anything to go by i bet you must get some right crocadillapigs on there

Didge wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:


lol

You can tell you're not an Englishman didge.

With almost every single post.

Because I am English and know far more of our great English history than you do Andy.
Sorry but your infantile insults is all you can come back with when I show you are a complete idiot as seen above.
Never mind happy to keep educating a simpleton

because i is english innit

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


Because I am English and know far more of our great English history than you do Andy.
Sorry but your infantile insults is all you can come back with when I show you are a complete idiot as seen above.
Never mind happy to keep educating a simpleton

because i is english innit

Wow, is that all you have? ha ha

oh there it is the - "ha ha" at the end of his posts

soon the "HA HA" will turn into one of these -> ://?roflmao?/: 

and then one of these -> ://?roflmao?/: will turn into ten of these -> ://?roflmao?/: 

and that's when didge loses the plot

early start didge, didn't realize i get to you so easily

are you still sore about that roasting you got the other week??

smelly_bandit wrote:oh there it is the - "ha ha" at the end of his posts

soon the "HA HA" will turn into one of these -> ://?roflmao?/: 

and then one of these -> ://?roflmao?/: will turn into ten of these -> ://?roflmao?/: 

and that's when didge loses the plot

early start didge, didn't realize i get to you so easily

are you still sore about that roasting you got the other week??

No just when I laugh at your poor inept and witless replies, it makes my day to laugh at a simpleton who has to make things up as above when he gets so battered daily by me, of course you are going to tell me next that Kent does not exist and think that an area called Palestine does not exist, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

I battered you the other week, you were the one that legged it, even funnier. 

Mate you just keep making an even bigger tit of yourself all the time, you are so obsessed you even have to write my quotes, which also prove how inept you are, ha ha ha ha ha and still cannot see why.


 ::D::

second phase

didge declares himself the winner by claiming he batters everyone around him

if only life was so simple and easy we would all be winners

smelly_bandit wrote:second phase

didge declares himself the winner by claiming he batters everyone around him

if only life was so simple and easy we would all be winners

!st phase, Didge catches out smelly for a contradiction where smelly has already declared himself the winner and is to simple to see that he has and why Didge is always one step ahead of smelly

See this is where you and I differ Quill

I see oppression everywhere too Muslims.

Not the Muslims seeking revenge!

SEXY MAMA wrote:See this is where you and I differ Quill

I see oppression everywhere too Muslims.

Not the Muslims seeking revenge!

like your quote mama

but its no surprise that mandela - a terrorist, would support the Palestinians - a terrorist nation

smelly_bandit wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:See this is where you and I differ Quill

I see oppression everywhere too Muslims.

Not the Muslims seeking revenge!

like your quote mama

but its no surprise that mandela - a terrorist, would support the Palestinians - a terrorist nation

Thank you


One man's hero is another man's terrorist........

SEXY MAMA wrote:See this is where you and I differ Quill

I see oppression everywhere too Muslims.

Not the Muslims seeking revenge!

That makes little sense to your claim in regards to justice Sexy, being what Islam stands for.
Are you saying by only seeing Muslims oppressed is thus ignoring when some Muslims do oppress themselves?  
The vast majority of oppression done to Muslims is by Muslims themselves, so this leaves for a problem and goes back tot he many points raised by Quill, because within some Muslim nations, justice forms a part of which Muslims believe they can act upon other people and if this is the case, who is right here, because such a thought process can lead to many problems, like for example what Islam or any Abrahamic faith for that matter requires justice to those who commit adultery, or religious freedom?
By having a belief that Islam is justice, it is thus about revenge, not anything then about love, compassion, forgiveness etc.

Didge wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:See this is where you and I differ Quill

I see oppression everywhere too Muslims.

Not the Muslims seeking revenge!

That makes little sense to your claim in regards to justice Sexy, being what Islam stands for.
Are you saying by only seeing Muslims oppressed is thus ignoring when some Muslims do oppress themselves?  
The vast majority of oppression done to Muslims is by Muslims themselves, so this leaves for a problem and goes back tot he many points raised by Quill, because within some Muslim nations, justice forms a part of which Muslims believe they can act upon other people and if this is the case, who is right here, because such a thought process can lead to many problems, like for example what Islam or any Abrahamic faith for that matter requires justice to those who commit adultery, or religious freedom?
By having a belief that Islam is justice, it is thus about revenge, not anything then about love, compassion, forgiveness etc.

^^^ Yes.

I see a lot of oppression too, SM.  But let's stand aside...how do Muslims handle the oppression?  It seems to me that Muslims, in their culture, don't understand the nurturant approach.  You have  a religion of justice, ok, so you handle everything through the prism of reward and punishment.  That's what justice is.

There are so many other ways of interacting with your fellow humans: teaching, as opposed to merely rewarding and punishing. That's why I see Christian charity as a step ahead....certainly a step ahead of the Pauline religion.

What  I see of Islam is that they don't get it.  That would rather punish than teach.  They don't see the good in humans, only a wickedness.  And wickedness must be punished.  Whereas, if you adopt the notion that humans are neither good or bad, but capable of both, you see humans as potential.  They can be molded into good (or bad) and that is up to the religion, or government, or the teacher or the parent.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:


That makes little sense to your claim in regards to justice Sexy, being what Islam stands for.
Are you saying by only seeing Muslims oppressed is thus ignoring when some Muslims do oppress themselves?  
The vast majority of oppression done to Muslims is by Muslims themselves, so this leaves for a problem and goes back tot he many points raised by Quill, because within some Muslim nations, justice forms a part of which Muslims believe they can act upon other people and if this is the case, who is right here, because such a thought process can lead to many problems, like for example what Islam or any Abrahamic faith for that matter requires justice to those who commit adultery, or religious freedom?
By having a belief that Islam is justice, it is thus about revenge, not anything then about love, compassion, forgiveness etc.

^^^ Yes.

I see a lot of oppression too, SM.  But let's stand aside...how do Muslims handle the oppression?  It seems to me that Muslims, in their culture, don't understand the nurturant approach.  You have  a religion of justice, ok, so you handle everything through the prism of reward and punishment.  That's what justice is.

There are so many other ways of interacting with your fellow humans: teaching, as opposed to merely rewarding and punishing. That's why I see Christian charity as a step ahead....certainly a step ahead of the Pauline religion.

What  I see of Islam is that they don't get it.  That would rather punish than teach.  They don't see the good in humans, only a wickedness.  And wickedness must be punished.  Whereas, if you adopt the notion that humans are neither good or bad, but capable of both, you see humans as potential.  They can be molded into good (or bad) and that is up to the religion, or government, or the teacher or the parent.

Excellent again Quill, the reality, is the ability for people to be capable of good or bad deeds, where to me religion poorly taught can be a form of abuse especially towards children, though measures of harsh discipline. If from a young age such acts of harsh justice are instilled, even more so in countries where there is many people illiterate, they then cannot form a wide spectrum of ideas and philosophy's or rightly conceive a true moral aspect on rights and wrongs. They are then formed only through a justice system they, where then are confined to only a literal thought process through religion.

I am intrigued at this humanist Christianity, it is something I am not up to speed with and o not see it as religious as such, more a moral approach using a good teacher, but can you shed some more light on how you came to this view point?

SEXY MAMA wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

like your quote mama

but its no surprise that mandela - a terrorist, would support the Palestinians - a terrorist nation

Thank you


One man's hero is another man's terrorist........

indeed

smelly_bandit wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Thank you


One man's hero is another man's terrorist........

indeed

Exlt point, SM. Like your hero smels...the terrorist Margaret Thatcher.

Original Quill wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

indeed

Exlt point, SM.  Like your hero smels...the terrorist Margaret Thatcher.

or Obama who uses drones to kill "innocents"???

smelly_bandit wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Exlt point, SM.  Like your hero smels...the terrorist Margaret Thatcher.

or Obama who uses drones to kill "innocents"???

Indeed, a breakthrough. We've brought you to a milestone, smels. All those who use war are terrorists. It's definitional.

Original Quill wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

or Obama who uses drones to kill "innocents"???

Indeed, a breakthrough.  We've brought you to a milestone, smels.  All those who use war are terrorists.  It's definitional.

whats this quill??

you have finally admitted fault in your messiah??

smelly_bandit wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:
See this is where you and I differ Quill

I see oppression everywhere too Muslims.

Not the Muslims seeking revenge!

like your quote mama

but its no surprise that Mandela - a terrorist, would support the Palestinians - a terrorist nation

  

ONCE AGAIN smellybumbandit displays his infinite capacity for spewing forth his mendacious opinions at every opportunity...

Mandela wasn't a terrorist.

Palestinians aren't a "nation".

Smelly is still a clueless and witless lying dickhead, though..   

smelly_bandit wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Indeed, a breakthrough.  We've brought you to a milestone, smels.  All those who use war are terrorists.  It's definitional.

whats this quill??

you have finally admitted fault in your messiah??

Who dat? Don't have any religious icons. If you are talking about Obama, yes I have always said he is too conservative. I says, get out of all wars and don't start any more. What goes on in the ME is their business, not the business of anyone as far away as the Americas.

What the US should do is get a bucket of popcorn, pull up a lawn chair and watch 'em pick each other off. We just finished the FIFA's. Tonight is baseball's All Star Game. But we are entering a sports blackout of sorts. A good match between Gaza and Israel could make for some good watching.

BTW, the final match between Israel and Iran is rapidly approaching, innit?