UKIP Surge In Polls Thanks To Accusations Of RACIST!

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:28 am

First topic message reminder :

28th April 2014

You will not stop us reclaiming our country. You will not shout us down!

Ukip is on course to win the highest share of the vote in next month's European elections, senior political figures warned on Sunday, in a result that would be viewed as a collapse of trust in the political establishment.

With a European election poll showing Ukip forging ahead, after a week that saw the party involved in a row about a racist candidate and buffeted by other controversies that would damage conventional parties, Peter Hain, the Labour former cabinet minister, said Ukip seemed to be immune from criticism and that he expected the party to beat Labour.

Lord Tebbit, the former Tory chairman, also said he expected Ukip to make history by becoming the first party other than Labour or the Conservatives to win a UK-wide election since the first world war. Tebbit said his party was still paying the price for David Cameron's decision to brand Ukip supporters "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" eight years ago.

At the weekend, Ukip became embroiled in a fresh racism row following revelations that William Henwood, a local election candidate for the party in Enfield, north London, had said Lenny Henry should emigrate to a "black country" after the comedian and actor suggested ethnic minorities were poorly represented on British television.

Asked to explain himself on Sunday, Henwood chose to repeat the racist sentiment. He told the BBC: "I think if black people come to this country and don't like mixing with white people why are they here? If he [Henry] wants a lot of blacks around, go and live in a black country."

But a European election poll for the Sunday Times giving Ukip a three-point lead suggests scandals are not causing harm. The poll was conducted at the end of last week, after a controversy over a racist local government candidate, Andre Lampitt, and questions raised by the Times over party leader Nigel Farage's office expenses. The YouGov survey put Ukip support at 31%, ahead of Labour on 28%, the Conservatives on 19% and the Lib Dems on 9%. Of 16 European election polls conducted this year, this is only the second showing Ukip ahead, and the first showing a lead higher than two points.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/27/ukip-likely-win-european-elections-despite-racism-scandals

by Fluffyx Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:57 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

So will you be voting for Labour because you actually like their policies or because there is no alternative for you?

I think this is a problem these days. I feel I should vote but who for? I'm not keen on any of the main parties, having seen and heard all the crap they come out with over the years.

I vote for Labour because they are the most LW party there is currently (which isn't very LW at all)

There is not a political party at current that represents my viewpoint.Old Labour sounds the closest but that was a little bit before my time (not much but a little bit )

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:58 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:If we blamed the immigrants we'd be beating them up and killing them - it is in fact the other way around.

The sensible thing is to blame the MP's is it not Fluffy?

And what will you do? Nothing.

What are others doing? Something.

What gets me is that even when it's clear someone should not be here, nobody does a thing about it.

One story which enraged me is that of the death of Amy Houston. The man who left her to die in the street was eventually allowed to stay here because of his right to a family life - a family which he had after he got out of prison. The plight of Amy's father really touched my heart, and the whole thing made me sick. If this man had been deported at the right time, it wouldn't have happened in the first place, and the fact that his right to a family life took priority over Mr Houston's right to have his daughter alive was just awful IMO.

I have posted that beautiful little girls' picture a few times over the years - some on here laughed at me for it.

UKIP Surge In Polls Thanks To Accusations Of RACIST! - Page 2 Untitl25

UKIP Surge In Polls Thanks To Accusations Of RACIST! - Page 2 Untitl25

by Fluffyx Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:00 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:If we blamed the immigrants we'd be beating them up and killing them - it is in fact the other way around.

The sensible thing is to blame the MP's is it not Fluffy?

And what will you do? Nothing.

What are others doing? Something.

But UKIP are not the answer.They are a one policy party and the mutterings resembling policies they do have include tax cuts for the RICH

I wonder if the working class people who have chosen to support them even know that.

Turning to these people out of apathy for the other main parties is not the answer.

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:05 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:If we blamed the immigrants we'd be beating them up and killing them - it is in fact the other way around.

The sensible thing is to blame the MP's is it not Fluffy?

And what will you do? Nothing.

What are others doing? Something.

But UKIP are not the answer.They are a one policy party and the mutterings resembling policies they do have include tax cuts for the RICH

I wonder if the working class people who have chosen to support them even know that.

Turning to these people out of apathy for the other main parties is not the answer.

Oh yes it blumming well is - look at the way they are all now listening (possibly, or possibly pretending) to the people.

So you'll wait to hear their policies then?

Good.

by Raggamuffin Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:06 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:If we blamed the immigrants we'd be beating them up and killing them - it is in fact the other way around.

The sensible thing is to blame the MP's is it not Fluffy?

And what will you do? Nothing.

What are others doing? Something.

But UKIP are not the answer.They are a one policy party and the mutterings resembling policies they do have include tax cuts for the RICH

I wonder if the working class people who have chosen to support them even know that.

Turning to these people out of apathy for the other main parties is not the answer.

What is the answer then? I suppose people could just not bother to vote, but their failure to do so won't mean a thing - it will just be ignored.

by harvesmom Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:06 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:It would be interesting to know why immigrants come here. Can they earn more? Can they have a nicer house for the same money they could earn at home? Are there more jobs here than in their own country?

I don't know about the pay structures in other countries versus the standard of living, but it would be interesting to do some research on that.

Basically, if you take Romania for an example their national minimum wage is around £1500 pa. Ours is around £12000. A house in Romania would cost around £37k. Hence, they come here for 3 or 4 years, earn enough to buy a house over there and return. Of course our minimum wage is also topped up with benefits.

by Raggamuffin Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:12 pm

harvesmom wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:It would be interesting to know why immigrants come here. Can they earn more? Can they have a nicer house for the same money they could earn at home? Are there more jobs here than in their own country?

I don't know about the pay structures in other countries versus the standard of living, but it would be interesting to do some research on that.

Basically, if you take Romania for an example their national minimum wage is around £1500 pa. Ours is around £12000. A house in Romania would cost around £37k. Hence, they come here for 3 or 4 years, earn enough to buy a house over there and return. Of course our minimum wage is also topped up with benefits.

Good points there. Of course the same happens here versus south and north to some extent. Someone could sell their house in London, move up north to a similar house, and have a lot of money left over.

To me, the problems is partly this one of the disparity of wages and living standards throughout Europe.

As for whoever said that immigrants are proud to be part of the UK, well that doesn't apply if they earn money and go home with loads of spare dosh. Of course, whilst they're here they would have to live very frugally and share accommodation with others, but that's not much of a hardship if it's temporary.

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:15 pm

harvesmom wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:It would be interesting to know why immigrants come here. Can they earn more? Can they have a nicer house for the same money they could earn at home? Are there more jobs here than in their own country?

I don't know about the pay structures in other countries versus the standard of living, but it would be interesting to do some research on that.

Basically, if you take Romania for an example their national minimum wage is around £1500 pa. Ours is around £12000. A house in Romania would cost around £37k. Hence, they come here for 3 or 4 years, earn enough to buy a house over there and return. Of course our minimum wage is also topped up with benefits.

"Yeah, but you can go to Romania and take one of their jobs, so shut your trap!"

Basketball

by Fluffyx Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:22 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
FluffyBunny wrote:

But UKIP are not the answer.They are a one policy party and the mutterings resembling policies they do have include tax cuts for the RICH

I wonder if the working class people who have chosen to support them even know that.

Turning to these people out of apathy for the other main parties is not the answer.

Oh yes it blumming well is - look at the way they are all now listening (possibly, or possibly pretending) to the people.

So you'll wait to hear their policies then?

Good.

Yes I listen to the policies of every party.

But I would never vote for UKIP in a million years.

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:35 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Oh yes it blumming well is - look at the way they are all now listening (possibly, or possibly pretending) to the people.

So you'll wait to hear their policies then?

Good.

Yes I listen to the policies of every party.

But I would never vote for UKIP in a million years.

But why?

I've said it many times - I believe UKIP are the most left wing Party out there!

22nd April 2014

In a piece for the Daily Express on Friday, Nigel Farage echoed Labour's criticisms of zero-hour contracts and called for larger employers to sign "a tough code of conduct as to how they are applied." While stating that he has no "truck with militant trade unionism", he also took aim at "over-mighty corporations" who "refuse to accept any social obligation towards loyal employees".

This intervention is part of a pattern of economic populism from Ukip. As Alex Wickham of Guido Fawkes notes, the party campaigned during the recent Wythenshawe by-election to "protect your benefits" and has declared its opposition to the bedroom tax. Farage has also abandoned Ukip's previous policy of a flat tax of 31 per cent, arguing that higher earners should pay at least 40 per cent.

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:38 pm

More left wing socialism from UKIP:

Vive la Revolution! Brothers Twisted Evil

Most of the party's supporters favour an expanded state and higher public spending. Polling by YouGov shows that 78 per cent support the nationalisation of the energy companies and 73 per cent back the renationalisation of the railways. Rather than a "code of conduct" for employers, 57 per cent simply want zero-hour contracts to be banned. Rather than a flat tax, the same number support the reintroduction of the 50p rate.

Given Ukip's success in attracting working class supporters, it makes no sense for the party to alienate them by adopting a programme of turbo-Thatcherism. In this era of insecurity, there is a large market for a party that combines hostility towards the EU and immigration with a critical stance towards big business.

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:51 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Well the old dear in Rochdale said she was worried about her kids and grandchildren getting a job - awful, awful things to say.

You see Fluffy, you don't have to say too much these days to be labelled a RACIST!!!!

Well I don't buy that whole 'immigrants are stealing our jobs ' line,how are they stealing them?

If a job is available then everyone who applies has a chance of getting the position.Are people suggesting employers favour immigrants or that the immigrants are better qualified and that's why they get the job? :\\:[:

I think alot of born and bred Britain won't deign to be a cleaner or sweep streets and that's why immigrants get the job,because they are willing to do work than Brits will not.

so sweeping streets is a new profession is it??

by harvesmom Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:58 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
harvesmom wrote:

Basically, if you take Romania for an example their national minimum wage is around £1500 pa. Ours is around £12000. A house in Romania would cost around £37k. Hence, they come here for 3 or 4 years, earn enough to buy a house over there and return. Of course our minimum wage is also topped up with benefits.

Good points there. Of course the same happens here versus south and north to some extent. Someone could sell their house in London, move up north to a similar house, and have a lot of money left over.

To me, the problems is partly this one of the disparity of wages and living standards throughout Europe.

As for whoever said that immigrants are proud to be part of the UK, well that doesn't apply if they earn money and go home with loads of spare dosh. Of course, whilst they're here they would have to live very frugally and share accommodation with others, but that's not much of a hardship if it's temporary.

You could move North, but then of course you wouldn't have the London salary either so over time that would kind of even itself out.

It would actually be interesting to know how many eastern Europeans are here just for the short term to earn money to go home, and how many are intending to make the UK their new family home.

I know round here you tend to get Fathers who come here and send nearly all their money back home, and they do all live together its not unusual to see 6 or 7 men sharing a house. But I realise that is generalising, based just on my personal experience.

by Raggamuffin Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:02 pm

harvesmom wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Good points there. Of course the same happens here versus south and north to some extent. Someone could sell their house in London, move up north to a similar house, and have a lot of money left over.

To me, the problems is partly this one of the disparity of wages and living standards throughout Europe.

As for whoever said that immigrants are proud to be part of the UK, well that doesn't apply if they earn money and go home with loads of spare dosh. Of course, whilst they're here they would have to live very frugally and share accommodation with others, but that's not much of a hardship if it's temporary.

You could move North, but then of course you wouldn't have the London salary either so over time that would kind of even itself out.

It would actually be interesting to know how many eastern Europeans are here just for the short term to earn money to go home, and how many are intending to make the UK their new family home.

I know round here you tend to get Fathers who come here and send nearly all their money back home, and they do all live together its not unusual to see 6 or 7 men sharing a house. But I realise that is generalising, based just on my personal experience.

You wouldn't necessarily need the London salary because you could have a mortgage-free house. Laughing

Don't these fathers get child benefits too, or is that a myth?

by harvesmom Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:16 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
harvesmom wrote:

You could move North, but then of course you wouldn't have the London salary either so over time that would kind of even itself out.

It would actually be interesting to know how many eastern Europeans are here just for the short term to earn money to go home, and how many are intending to make the UK their new family home.

I know round here you tend to get Fathers who come here and send nearly all their money back home, and they do all live together its not unusual to see 6 or 7 men sharing a house. But I realise that is generalising, based just on my personal experience.

You wouldn't necessarily need the London salary because you could have a mortgage-free house.

Don't these fathers get child benefits too, or is that a myth?

Yes they do, as long as you are legally in the UK and considered resident here, this is from the Government web site :

The European Economic Area (EEA) There are special rules if you are in the UK or another EEA country and: • employed or self-employed and pay UK National Insurance contributions, or • get — contribution-based Jobseeker’s Allowance — Incapacity Benefit — contribution-based Employment & Support Allowance — State Pension — Widow’s Benefit or Bereavement Benefit — Guardian’s Allowance — Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit from the UK. You can usually get Child Benefit even if your child or children live in another EEA country.

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:29 pm

Thank god we have the infrastructure and resources needed to check up on all the foreigners in this tiny country!

lol

by Ben Reilly Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:33 pm

Tesstacious wrote:Well done Andy - the more "DOH", "bless", "PMSL" and rofls you get in replies, the more you're getting to him!

Is that what it's all about? That's pretty sad.

Re: the OP, there's nothing to suggest that any kind of UKIP surge (and I use the word quite loosely here) is a direct result of the racist row, as the headline suggests.

But I am so not surprised ...

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:36 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Tesstacious wrote:Well done Andy - the more "DOH", "bless", "PMSL" and rofls you get in replies, the more you're getting to him!

Is that what it's all about? That's pretty sad.

Re: the OP, there's nothing to suggest that any kind of UKIP surge (and I use the word quite loosely here) is a direct result of the racist row, as the headline suggests.

But I am so not surprised ...

Thanks - you have how many years experience living in England?

by Ben Reilly Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:38 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Tesstacious wrote:Well done Andy - the more "DOH", "bless", "PMSL" and rofls you get in replies, the more you're getting to him!

Is that what it's all about? That's pretty sad.

Re: the OP, there's nothing to suggest that any kind of UKIP surge (and I use the word quite loosely here) is a direct result of the racist row, as the headline suggests.

But I am so not surprised ...

Thanks - you have how many years experience living in England?

None. Which has nothing to do with anything I said, you might notice. ::D::

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:40 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Thanks - you have how many years experience living in England?

None. Which has nothing to do with anything I said, you might notice. ::D::

Oh I think everybody here would disagree.

Whether they are half as brave as BigAndy9 and will say it is another matter but as we all know, BigAndy9 is brave enough to stand alone cheers

by Ben Reilly Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:46 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Thanks - you have how many years experience living in England?

None. Which has nothing to do with anything I said, you might notice. ::D::

Oh I think everybody here would disagree.

Whether they are half as brave as BigAndy9 and will say it is another matter but as we all know, BigAndy9 is brave enough to stand alone

What's with that weird talking about yourself in the third person, are you Bob Dole or something?

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:49 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Oh I think everybody here would disagree.

Whether they are half as brave as BigAndy9 and will say it is another matter but as we all know, BigAndy9 is brave enough to stand alone

What's with that weird talking about yourself in the third person, are you Bob Dole or something?

Anyway, do you wish to debate the topic, or me, again?

by Ben Reilly Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:53 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Oh I think everybody here would disagree.

Whether they are half as brave as BigAndy9 and will say it is another matter but as we all know, BigAndy9 is brave enough to stand alone

What's with that weird talking about yourself in the third person, are you Bob Dole or something?

Anyway, do you wish to debate the topic, or me, again?

Sure, man. Show me where in the poll respondents said they were now more likely to support UKIP because they heard about UKIP's racist row and approve of racism, then we can talk. Otherwise you're just conjecturing. Actually, conjecturing is a nice way of putting it when someone reports something as fact that hasn't actually been established ::D::

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:43 pm

People have had enough of the 3 main partys and their continuation of the same 'progressive' policies, no matter which are in, the story is much the same.
More immigration, more EU, more of the same.
The British people want out of EU, considerably less immigration, less govt spending.
We want regain control on our country and borders with a return to more common sense govt.
UKIP are offering this, while the other 3 are offering more of the same.

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:45 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:People have had enough of the 3 main partys and their continuation of the same 'progressive' policies, no matter which are in, the story is much the same.
More immigration, more EU, more of the same.
The British people want out of EU, considerably less immigration, less govt spending.
We want regain control on our country and borders with a return to more common sense govt.
UKIP are offering this, while the other 3 are offering more of the same.

Vote UKIP

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:47 pm

Come the general election, people will get to see the policies of UKIP and will no doubt be astounded how bad they are for the country as already stated.

Let them have the EU elections, that plays more into the hands of the opposition to show how incompetent they will be once there, a a protest party holds too many eggs in one basket

by Fluffyx Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:53 pm

They said that the floods were cause by the wrath of God over gay marriage.

They were being serious.

They couldn't look after someone's lunch let alone the country.

Anyone truly wanting to vote UKIP who is in possession of some of their absurd rants is doing themselves a dis service.

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:59 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:They said that the floods were cause by the wrath of God over gay marriage.

They were being serious.

They couldn't look after someone's lunch let alone the country.

Anyone truly wanting to vote UKIP who is in possession of some of their absurd rants is doing themselves a dis service.

You mean this:

A Ukip councillor who blamed the Christmas and new year floods on the passage of gay marriage laws has been suspended from the party, Ukip said on Sunday, reversing an earlier view that he was entitled to his opinion.

But is this not more serious?:

Naseem, who was elected in 2011, is also the Labour candidate for the Eastern Region in the MEP elections.

Mohammad was elected in 2007.

Bedfordshire Police confirmed they are investigating potential offences under the Computer Misuse Act 1990 (unauthorised access) and/or Malicious Communications Act 1988 (send offensive communication/incite racial hatred).

A Beds Police spokesperson said: “As this investigation is ongoing at this time it would be inappropriate to comment further. As no one has been charged in connection with this investigation we will not confirm the identity of those involved.”

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:00 pm

Fluffy, to sum up: I could find far, far more incidents where Labour members, MPs, councillors have done misdeeds than you could ever come up with for BNP, UKIP - any other Party.

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:00 pm

by Fluffyx Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:02 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:Fluffy, to sum up: I could find far, far more incidents where Labour members, MPs, councillors have done misdeeds than you could ever come up with for BNP, UKIP - any other Party.

I take your point Andy but the problem with UKIP remains that they are just not considered a credible party.

You or I would do just as good a job!

by Raggamuffin Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:17 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:They said that the floods were cause by the wrath of God over gay marriage.

They were being serious.

They couldn't look after someone's lunch let alone the country.

Anyone truly wanting to vote UKIP who is in possession of some of their absurd rants is doing themselves a dis service.

They?

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:19 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:Fluffy, to sum up: I could find far, far more incidents where Labour members, MPs, councillors have done misdeeds than you could ever come up with for BNP, UKIP - any other Party.

I take your point Andy but the problem with UKIP remains that they are just not considered a credible party.

You or I would do just as good a job!

Look at who supports them on here, just about sums that rabble up!
Laughing

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:20 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:Fluffy, to sum up: I could find far, far more incidents where Labour members, MPs, councillors have done misdeeds than you could ever come up with for BNP, UKIP - any other Party.

I take your point Andy but the problem with UKIP remains that they are just not considered a credible party.

You or I would do just as good a job!

UKIP Surge In Polls Thanks To Accusations Of RACIST! - Page 2 Incred10

by Tommy Monk Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:22 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:Fluffy, to sum up: I could find far, far more incidents where Labour members, MPs, councillors have done misdeeds than you could ever come up with for BNP, UKIP - any other Party.
I take your point Andy but the problem with UKIP remains that they are just not considered a credible party.
You or I would do just as good a job!

The idea of democracy in our country is exactly that, elect local 'common'people to the house of commons to voice the views of the people and move the country in The direction that the people want.

This has been absent for far too long.

The 3 main partys are career politicians following their agenda against the wishes of the people they purport to represent.

Their trick has been to appear different and say what people want to hear, but then to just ignore everyone and carry on regardless.

UKIP are saying what people want and I believe they will do it too!

What have we got to lose by voting for them?

We have seen what the others will do and have had enough of their bullshit.

by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:26 pm

You are going to vote for people in the EU parliament soon are you not Matti?

UKIP are a joke, they lie constantly about the EU, spread fear about it based off lies also and are nothing but a protest party with no viable policies, even worse they are solely reliant on implementing them off the back of leaving the EU

by Fluffyx Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:29 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
FluffyBunny wrote:
I take your point Andy but the problem with UKIP remains that they are just not considered a credible party.
You or I would do just as good a job!

The idea of democracy in our country is exactly that, elect local 'common'people to the house of commons to voice the views of the people and move the country in The direction that the people want.

This has been absent for far too long.

The 3 main partys are career politicians following their agenda against the wishes of the people they purport to represent.

Their trick has been to appear different and say what people want to hear, but then to just ignore everyone and carry on regardless.

UKIP are saying what people want and I believe they will do it too!

What have we got to lose by voting for them?

We have seen what the others will do and have had enough of their bullshit.

You have everything to lose by voting for them because they only have one policy,they are not a credible party and their members make absurd offensive remarks against women and gay people.They are a joke,I honestly don't understand why anyone would trust them with anything.

What policies do they have except wanting to leave the EU AND cutting taxes for the rich?

By all means you are entitled to your view but I won't be converted.

by veya_victaous Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:35 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
harvesmom wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:It would be interesting to know why immigrants come here. Can they earn more? Can they have a nicer house for the same money they could earn at home? Are there more jobs here than in their own country?

I don't know about the pay structures in other countries versus the standard of living, but it would be interesting to do some research on that.

Basically, if you take Romania for an example their national minimum wage is around £1500 pa. Ours is around £12000. A house in Romania would cost around £37k. Hence, they come here for 3 or 4 years, earn enough to buy a house over there and return. Of course our minimum wage is also topped up with benefits.

Good points there. Of course the same happens here versus south and north to some extent. Someone could sell their house in London, move up north to a similar house, and have a lot of money left over.

To me, the problems is partly this one of the disparity of wages and living standards throughout Europe.

As for whoever said that immigrants are proud to be part of the UK, well that doesn't apply if they earn money and go home with loads of spare dosh. Of course, whilst they're here they would have to live very frugally and share accommodation with others, but that's not much of a hardship if it's temporary.

Ragga, this is the modern world which Europe doesn't seem to understand there is heaps of cheap mobile labour available in the world and now thanks to globalisation it can come to the UK (or here, we still get lots here too, but many after being here a few years decide they would prefer to stay) Businesses and Economies need to change and adapt to the new reality if that means that you got Romanians doing cheap labour so be it, maybe investment in Education etc would help to keep the UK born in higher positions.
This is global capitalism that the EU shields you guys from, People complain about Romanians but they still want more than many money than the south east Asians, and I don't think they work as hard or have the same natural business acumen than Many from South East Asia have. We have adapted to this reality like the USA and most outside of Europe already have.

by Ben Reilly Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:40 am

It would be kind of funny to see UKIP win and then fall on their asses if the consequences wouldn't be so tragic -- I would predict three million-four million jobs lost in the U.K. with the trade balance getting even farther out of whack, a big hit to the all-important U.K. tourism industry with a lot of ripple effects, etc.

by Tommy Monk Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:34 pm

Yeah right!

And the sky will fall in....!

What a load of bollocks!

by Guest Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:41 pm

Catman wrote:
FluffyBunny wrote:

I take your point Andy but the problem with UKIP remains that they are just not considered a credible party.

You or I would do just as good a job!

Look at who supports them on here, just about sums that rabble up!

Absolutely - we're such rabble. Wouldn't the country be so much better off if it were full of fine upstanding citizens such as yourself? We'd all be rich wouldn't we?

by Guest Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:11 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:It would be kind of funny to see UKIP win and then fall on their asses if the consequences wouldn't be so tragic -- I would predict three million-four million jobs lost in the U.K. with the trade balance getting even farther out of whack, a big hit to the all-important U.K. tourism industry with a lot of ripple effects, etc.

Absolutely Benji - people often say to me they come to London to see the blacks riding around on their bicycles with their guns/knives in hand looking for their next victims.

What a tragic loss if they weren't here any more.

by Guest Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:15 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:It would be kind of funny to see UKIP win and then fall on their asses if the consequences wouldn't be so tragic -- I would predict three million-four million jobs lost in the U.K. with the trade balance getting even farther out of whack, a big hit to the all-important U.K. tourism industry with a lot of ripple effects, etc.

Good afternoon Ben

You've been listening to Didge again.

Be careful of that or you'll end up being laughed at like he is.

by Guest Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:18 pm

Shady wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:It would be kind of funny to see UKIP win and then fall on their asses if the consequences wouldn't be so tragic -- I would predict three million-four million jobs lost in the U.K. with the trade balance getting even farther out of whack, a big hit to the all-important U.K. tourism industry with a lot of ripple effects, etc.

Good afternoon Ben

You've been listening to Didge again.

Be careful of that or you'll end up being laughed at like he is.

I really do not think Ben is concerned by an idiot such as yourself Shady, he knows you are nothing more than an irritant little child who hates not getting his way and being shown up by me

Keep enjoying it He-man

On the face of it, the last two weeks haven't been the greatest advertisement for the Ukip anti-European/anti-political establishment 'insurgency'. First the 'British builder' in a Ukip party political broadcast candidate turned out to be a white Zimbabwean - sorry 'Rhodesian' - immigrant named Andre Lampitt. In the broadcast builder Lampitt described how it had been a 'real struggle' to feed his family because of the 'lads from Eastern Europe.'

But then 'Rhodesian' Lampitt spoilt all the fun with a succession of tweets defending slavery, describing Islam as a 'pathetic Satanic religion', and Nigerians as 'generally bad people.' No sooner was Lampitt banned by a 'very angry' Farage than another candidate pops comparing Islam to Nazism and telling Lenry Henry to live abroad if he 'wants a lot of blacks around'.

That same week it was revealed that the 'British construction actor' begging in the streets used in the Ukip election poster was in fact an Irish actor; that a vox pop 'voter from Devon' who declared that UKip was 'the only party listening to what people want' was in fact Nigel Farage's assistant and events manager.

And then there was the former Tory councillor for Leicestershire David Parsons, who was forced to resign from the council in 2012 after an expenses fraud, announcing his intention to stand as a Ukip candidate in the general election because "At a time when so many of us are struggling to make ends meet, we are left to the whims and fancies of a Tory/Liberal coalition, both locally and nationally."

This is knockabout farce of a high order, which caused Parsons' Tory opponent to 'fall about laughing' when he heard who would be standing against him. Meanwhile anti-establishment leader Nigel Farage, that down-to-earth ordinary bloke who is really just like you and me and wants to purge Westminster may have spent £60,000 in office expenses on himself and his party - pretty much like the European 'fat cats' depicted in Ukip's election poster in fact.

In Ukip's view all these revelations are 'smears'. Others might see them as symptoms of a party that is rotten and phoney to its very core, that is perpetrating an astonishingly brazen con-trick on the nation's embittered and credulous voters, and which attracts racists, bigots and xenophobes not in spite of its policies but because of them.

That such a party should still be riding high in the polls despite all this is - or should be - deeply disturbing. According to a Guardian editorial over the weekend, 'people are attracted to Ukip for reasons that have to be listened to and engaged with, not merely disapproved of.' The newspaper optimistically predicts that 'reason will out. But only if the reasons why people are attracted to Ukip and disenchanted with established parties are addressed more honestly and humbly.'

The Guardian's Suzanne Moore also sees Ukip as a product of 'the real Little England, the one that seeks to represent ordinary people without ever talking to them. ' The suggestion that Ukip is the product of a political class that has failed to 'listen' is true up to a point. As far as the 2008 financial crisis is concerned, all three parties have shown themselves far more concerned with listening to those who are more powerful than they are than to those who are less so, and with designing policies to suit their interests.

But this 'listening' narrative does not explain Ukip's appeal. You can be disenchanted and disgusted with the political class without turning to a party that deals in lies, prejudices and anti-foreigner fantasies, such as the outrageous claim in its electoral propaganda that 26 million Europeans are coming to take British jobs.

You can analyse that statement from every conceivable angle. You can stretch out on the ground, climb onto a high building or view it from a helicopter, but it will never stop being an an absolute unmitigated whopper, and more than that, a lie deliberately designed to whip up fear, resentment, hatred and prejudice.

Or take the depiction of the 'British construction worker' dispossessed by EU Labour. In fact for the last few years there has been a shortage of skilled labour in the construction industry - a shortage which many firms have filled with European labour in order to keep track of renewed demand. Last November, the Construction Industry Training Board (CITB) was predicting a looming skills crisis because of the impending retirement of 400,000 UK construction workers within the next decade.

According to a recent survey by the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors, 41% of respondents have been having difficulty finding skilled workers, with bricklayers in specially short supply.

There is a debate to had here about training program provision and apprenticeships to be sure. But the essential, unavoidable fact is that the construction industry could not survive without foreign labour, and that UKip is either lying or completely ignorant - on this, and on so many issues.

And the fact that such a blatantly false and xenophobic program should appeal to so many voters is not merely the consequence of a failure to 'listen' by an 'out of touch' political class. If so many many people are prepared to vote according to prejudice that is because too many politicians have also pandered to these prejudices, whether it was Gordon Brown's 'British jobs for British workers' or the rampant anti-Romanian and Bulgarian sentiment encouraged by the government throughout the whole of last year.

In fact practically the only issue in which all three parties 'listen' to voters, is immigration. That is why they have fallen over themselves - particularly Labour and the Conservatives - for more than a decade in an attempt to demonstrate how 'tough' they are on immigration and asylum. And this willingness to some extent is a response to a constant torrent of stories denigrating migrants and asylum seekers emanating from some three quarters of the British press, from which truth and accuracy has been too often absent.

As John Grayson argues in an essential article for the Institute of Race Relations, Ukip are the product of a long process of media legitimization that has moved racism and xenophobia to the centre of British politics. No wonder Nick Griffin plaintively laments ' If you look at UKIP they are using all our rhetoric, they are using our slogans, they are recycling our posters and people like it.'

He's right. And it would be better to recognize that fact and respond accordingly, rather than whitter on about the failure of politicians to listen to the 'concerns' which have created a political monster that threatens to suck British politics even deeper into the sewers.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matt-carr/ukip-racism_b_5224584.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

by Guest Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:22 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

The idea of democracy in our country is exactly that, elect local 'common'people to the house of commons to voice the views of the people and move the country in The direction that the people want.

This has been absent for far too long.

The 3 main partys are career politicians following their agenda against the wishes of the people they purport to represent.

Their trick has been to appear different and say what people want to hear, but then to just ignore everyone and carry on regardless.

UKIP are saying what people want and I believe they will do it too!

What have we got to lose by voting for them?

We have seen what the others will do and have had enough of their bullshit.

You have everything to lose by voting for them because they only have one policy,they are not a credible party and their members make absurd offensive remarks against women and gay people.They are a joke,I honestly don't understand why anyone would trust them with anything.

What policies do they have except wanting to leave the EU AND cutting taxes for the rich?

By all means you are entitled to your view but I won't be converted.

I take it you ignored the article on their policies I posted yesterday - twice - which clearly showed they were more left than Labour?!

by Guest Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:24 pm

On the face of it, the last two weeks haven't been the greatest advertisement for the Ukip anti-European/anti-political establishment 'insurgency'. First the 'British builder' in a Ukip party political broadcast candidate turned out to be a white Zimbabwean - sorry 'Rhodesian' - immigrant named Andre Lampitt. In the broadcast builder Lampitt described how it had been a 'real struggle' to feed his family because of the 'lads from Eastern Europe.'

But then 'Rhodesian' Lampitt spoilt all the fun with a succession of tweets defending slavery, describing Islam as a 'pathetic Satanic religion', and Nigerians as 'generally bad people.' No sooner was Lampitt banned by a 'very angry' Farage than another candidate pops comparing Islam to Nazism and telling Lenry Henry to live abroad if he 'wants a lot of blacks around'.

That same week it was revealed that the 'British construction actor' begging in the streets used in the Ukip election poster was in fact an Irish actor; that a vox pop 'voter from Devon' who declared that UKip was 'the only party listening to what people want' was in fact Nigel Farage's assistant and events manager.

And then there was the former Tory councillor for Leicestershire David Parsons, who was forced to resign from the council in 2012 after an expenses fraud, announcing his intention to stand as a Ukip candidate in the general election because "At a time when so many of us are struggling to make ends meet, we are left to the whims and fancies of a Tory/Liberal coalition, both locally and nationally."

This is knockabout farce of a high order, which caused Parsons' Tory opponent to 'fall about laughing' when he heard who would be standing against him. Meanwhile anti-establishment leader Nigel Farage, that down-to-earth ordinary bloke who is really just like you and me and wants to purge Westminster may have spent £60,000 in office expenses on himself and his party - pretty much like the European 'fat cats' depicted in Ukip's election poster in fact.

In Ukip's view all these revelations are 'smears'. Others might see them as symptoms of a party that is rotten and phoney to its very core, that is perpetrating an astonishingly brazen con-trick on the nation's embittered and credulous voters, and which attracts racists, bigots and xenophobes not in spite of its policies but because of them.

That such a party should still be riding high in the polls despite all this is - or should be - deeply disturbing. According to a Guardian editorial over the weekend, 'people are attracted to Ukip for reasons that have to be listened to and engaged with, not merely disapproved of.' The newspaper optimistically predicts that 'reason will out. But only if the reasons why people are attracted to Ukip and disenchanted with established parties are addressed more honestly and humbly.'

The Guardian's Suzanne Moore also sees Ukip as a product of 'the real Little England, the one that seeks to represent ordinary people without ever talking to them. ' The suggestion that Ukip is the product of a political class that has failed to 'listen' is true up to a point. As far as the 2008 financial crisis is concerned, all three parties have shown themselves far more concerned with listening to those who are more powerful than they are than to those who are less so, and with designing policies to suit their interests.

But this 'listening' narrative does not explain Ukip's appeal. You can be disenchanted and disgusted with the political class without turning to a party that deals in lies, prejudices and anti-foreigner fantasies, such as the outrageous claim in its electoral propaganda that 26 million Europeans are coming to take British jobs.

You can analyse that statement from every conceivable angle. You can stretch out on the ground, climb onto a high building or view it from a helicopter, but it will never stop being an an absolute unmitigated whopper, and more than that, a lie deliberately designed to whip up fear, resentment, hatred and prejudice.

Or take the depiction of the 'British construction worker' dispossessed by EU Labour. In fact for the last few years there has been a shortage of skilled labour in the construction industry - a shortage which many firms have filled with European labour in order to keep track of renewed demand. Last November, the Construction Industry Training Board (CITB) was predicting a looming skills crisis because of the impending retirement of 400,000 UK construction workers within the next decade.

According to a recent survey by the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors, 41% of respondents have been having difficulty finding skilled workers, with bricklayers in specially short supply.

There is a debate to had here about training program provision and apprenticeships to be sure. But the essential, unavoidable fact is that the construction industry could not survive without foreign labour, and that UKip is either lying or completely ignorant - on this, and on so many issues.

And the fact that such a blatantly false and xenophobic program should appeal to so many voters is not merely the consequence of a failure to 'listen' by an 'out of touch' political class. If so many many people are prepared to vote according to prejudice that is because too many politicians have also pandered to these prejudices, whether it was Gordon Brown's 'British jobs for British workers' or the rampant anti-Romanian and Bulgarian sentiment encouraged by the government throughout the whole of last year.

In fact practically the only issue in which all three parties 'listen' to voters, is immigration. That is why they have fallen over themselves - particularly Labour and the Conservatives - for more than a decade in an attempt to demonstrate how 'tough' they are on immigration and asylum. And this willingness to some extent is a response to a constant torrent of stories denigrating migrants and asylum seekers emanating from some three quarters of the British press, from which truth and accuracy has been too often absent.

As John Grayson argues in an essential article for the Institute of Race Relations, Ukip are the product of a long process of media legitimization that has moved racism and xenophobia to the centre of British politics. No wonder Nick Griffin plaintively laments ' If you look at UKIP they are using all our rhetoric, they are using our slogans, they are recycling our posters and people like it.'

He's right. And it would be better to recognize that fact and respond accordingly, rather than whitter on about the failure of politicians to listen to the 'concerns' which have created a political monster that threatens to suck British politics even deeper into the sewers.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matt-carr/ukip-racism_b_5224584.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

by Tommy Monk Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:33 pm

Huff and puff.....

And the cross party smear campaign in full effect.

Is that the best they can do?

by Guest Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:35 pm

Didge wrote:On the face of it, the last two weeks haven't been the greatest advertisement for the Ukip anti-European/anti-political establishment 'insurgency'. First the 'British builder' in a Ukip party political broadcast candidate turned out to be a white Zimbabwean - sorry 'Rhodesian' - immigrant named Andre Lampitt. In the broadcast builder Lampitt described how it had been a 'real struggle' to feed his family because of the 'lads from Eastern Europe.'

But then 'Rhodesian' Lampitt spoilt all the fun with a succession of tweets defending slavery, describing Islam as a 'pathetic Satanic religion', and Nigerians as 'generally bad people.' No sooner was Lampitt banned by a 'very angry' Farage than another candidate pops comparing Islam to Nazism and telling Lenry Henry to live abroad if he 'wants a lot of blacks around'.

That same week it was revealed that the 'British construction actor' begging in the streets used in the Ukip election poster was in fact an Irish actor; that a vox pop 'voter from Devon' who declared that UKip was 'the only party listening to what people want' was in fact Nigel Farage's assistant and events manager.

And then there was the former Tory councillor for Leicestershire David Parsons, who was forced to resign from the council in 2012 after an expenses fraud, announcing his intention to stand as a Ukip candidate in the general election because "At a time when so many of us are struggling to make ends meet, we are left to the whims and fancies of a Tory/Liberal coalition, both locally and nationally."

This is knockabout farce of a high order, which caused Parsons' Tory opponent to 'fall about laughing' when he heard who would be standing against him. Meanwhile anti-establishment leader Nigel Farage, that down-to-earth ordinary bloke who is really just like you and me and wants to purge Westminster may have spent £60,000 in office expenses on himself and his party - pretty much like the European 'fat cats' depicted in Ukip's election poster in fact.

In Ukip's view all these revelations are 'smears'. Others might see them as symptoms of a party that is rotten and phoney to its very core, that is perpetrating an astonishingly brazen con-trick on the nation's embittered and credulous voters, and which attracts racists, bigots and xenophobes not in spite of its policies but because of them.

That such a party should still be riding high in the polls despite all this is - or should be - deeply disturbing. According to a Guardian editorial over the weekend, 'people are attracted to Ukip for reasons that have to be listened to and engaged with, not merely disapproved of.' The newspaper optimistically predicts that 'reason will out. But only if the reasons why people are attracted to Ukip and disenchanted with established parties are addressed more honestly and humbly.'

The Guardian's Suzanne Moore also sees Ukip as a product of 'the real Little England, the one that seeks to represent ordinary people without ever talking to them. ' The suggestion that Ukip is the product of a political class that has failed to 'listen' is true up to a point. As far as the 2008 financial crisis is concerned, all three parties have shown themselves far more concerned with listening to those who are more powerful than they are than to those who are less so, and with designing policies to suit their interests.

But this 'listening' narrative does not explain Ukip's appeal. You can be disenchanted and disgusted with the political class without turning to a party that deals in lies, prejudices and anti-foreigner fantasies, such as the outrageous claim in its electoral propaganda that 26 million Europeans are coming to take British jobs.

You can analyse that statement from every conceivable angle. You can stretch out on the ground, climb onto a high building or view it from a helicopter, but it will never stop being an an absolute unmitigated whopper, and more than that, a lie deliberately designed to whip up fear, resentment, hatred and prejudice.

Or take the depiction of the 'British construction worker' dispossessed by EU Labour. In fact for the last few years there has been a shortage of skilled labour in the construction industry - a shortage which many firms have filled with European labour in order to keep track of renewed demand. Last November, the Construction Industry Training Board (CITB) was predicting a looming skills crisis because of the impending retirement of 400,000 UK construction workers within the next decade.

According to a recent survey by the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors, 41% of respondents have been having difficulty finding skilled workers, with bricklayers in specially short supply.

There is a debate to had here about training program provision and apprenticeships to be sure. But the essential, unavoidable fact is that the construction industry could not survive without foreign labour, and that UKip is either lying or completely ignorant - on this, and on so many issues.

And the fact that such a blatantly false and xenophobic program should appeal to so many voters is not merely the consequence of a failure to 'listen' by an 'out of touch' political class. If so many many people are prepared to vote according to prejudice that is because too many politicians have also pandered to these prejudices, whether it was Gordon Brown's 'British jobs for British workers' or the rampant anti-Romanian and Bulgarian sentiment encouraged by the government throughout the whole of last year.

In fact practically the only issue in which all three parties 'listen' to voters, is immigration. That is why they have fallen over themselves - particularly Labour and the Conservatives - for more than a decade in an attempt to demonstrate how 'tough' they are on immigration and asylum. And this willingness to some extent is a response to a constant torrent of stories denigrating migrants and asylum seekers emanating from some three quarters of the British press, from which truth and accuracy has been too often absent.

As John Grayson argues in an essential article for the Institute of Race Relations, Ukip are the product of a long process of media legitimization that has moved racism and xenophobia to the centre of British politics. No wonder Nick Griffin plaintively laments ' If you look at UKIP they are using all our rhetoric, they are using our slogans, they are recycling our posters and people like it.'

He's right. And it would be better to recognize that fact and respond accordingly, rather than whitter on about the failure of politicians to listen to the 'concerns' which have created a political monster that threatens to suck British politics even deeper into the sewers.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matt-carr/ukip-racism_b_5224584.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Someone please wake me up when this post ends......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

by Guest Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:37 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Huff and puff.....

And the cross party smear campaign in full effect.

Is that the best they can do?

Try countering the points not the source and its no campaign to speak the truth of which will become more and more apparent. This point was very apt.

As John Grayson argues in an essential article for the Institute of Race Relations, Ukip are the product of a long process of media legitimization that has moved racism and xenophobia to the centre of British politics. No wonder Nick Griffin plaintively laments ' If you look at UKIP they are using all our rhetoric, they are using our slogans, they are recycling our posters and people like it.'

He's right. And it would be better to recognize that fact and respond accordingly, rather than whitter on about the failure of politicians to listen to the 'concerns' which have created a political monster that threatens to suck British politics even deeper into the sewers.

As stated, the hype around UKIP will crumble next year when they present their policies in their manifesto and people will groan when they realise they have no credible policies to run our nation and instead would bring it to ruin

by Guest Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:39 pm

Didge wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Huff and puff.....

And the cross party smear campaign in full effect.

Is that the best they can do?

Try countering the points not the source and its no campaign to speak the truth of which will become more and more apparent. This point was very apt.

As John Grayson argues in an essential article for the Institute of Race Relations, Ukip are the product of a long process of media legitimization that has moved racism and xenophobia to the centre of British politics. No wonder Nick Griffin plaintively laments ' If you look at UKIP they are using all our rhetoric, they are using our slogans, they are recycling our posters and people like it.'

He's right. And it would be better to recognize that fact and respond accordingly, rather than whitter on about the failure of politicians to listen to the 'concerns' which have created a political monster that threatens to suck British politics even deeper into the sewers.

As stated, the hype around UKIP will crumble next year when they present their policies in their manifesto and people will groan when they realise they have no credible policies to run our nation and instead would bring it to ruin

And all the politicians had to do was listen.

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