Why are women still afraid to walk home at night?

by Syl Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:57 am

First topic message reminder :

"Fury and heartbreak following the disappearance of Sarah Everard has prompted people to declare "she was walking home" in solidarity with the 33-year-old.

Thousands of people have expressed fury that women often feel unsafe walking the streets alone after human remains were found in woods in Kent after Sarah went missing.

Sick of having to moderate their behaviour for fear of encountering predatory strangers, some have questioned if a curfew for men wouldn't be a better way of keeping women safe.

The outpouring comes as police say a vigil to "reclaim these streets" organised for Saturday in Sarah's name cannot go ahead due to lockdown restrictions.

One woman wrote on Twitter: "We know it's #notallmen but unless you can tell us how to quickly assess which ones it is, it's a pointless sentiment. #shewaswalkinghome#TooManyWomen"

Another quoted the author Margaret Atwood who famously said: "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."

Sarah Everard.

Why are women still afraid to walk home at night? - Page 3 0_pri110

by Maddog Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:16 am

Korben wrote:
Maddog wrote:

No one thinks a gun is answer to everything. Stop with the strawman.
Its not a straw-man in America its a fact of life the amount of story's about neighbours shooting another neighbour over the stupidest of thing ,just last week a guy shot his neighbour over a trump sign https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/anti-donald-trump-campaigner-clayton-carter-shoot-republican-dead-head-george-jennings-a7895966.html

People harm each other with all sorts of weapons.

That doesn't mean people think it's an answer to everything. Everything has a meaning.

If it were an answer to everything, the tens of millions of Americans that own weapons would be using then daily on each other.

Guns are rarely thought to be the answer to anything, but that doesn't mean they never are.

There are times when a good human needs an extremely lethal device to stop a bad human.

by Guest Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:16 am

Maddog wrote:
Korben wrote:
Its not a straw-man in America its a fact of life the amount of story's about neighbours shooting another neighbour over the stupidest of thing ,just last week a guy shot his neighbour over a trump sign https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/anti-donald-trump-campaigner-clayton-carter-shoot-republican-dead-head-george-jennings-a7895966.html

People harm each other with all sorts of weapons.

That doesn't mean people think it's an answer to everything. Everything has a meaning.

If it were an answer to everything, the tens of millions of Americans that own weapons would be using then daily on each other.

Guns are rarely thought to be the answer to anything, but that doesn't mean they never are.

There are times when a good human needs an extremely lethal device to stop a bad human.

Ah you para phrase the NRA mantra ."it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun

however research disagrees

"https://abcnews.go.com/US/breaking-nra-backed-theory-good-guy-gun-stops/story?id=53360480

by Syl Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:41 pm

You dont have to look far to see why women are so afraid to be walking alone at night.
Whist the courts take these offences so lightly it will never stop.

"A man who forced himself on a young woman as she walked home alone late at night has walked free after complaining he would lose his job if he went to jail.

Takeaway worker Javed Miah, 23, ambushed the terrified victim in the street before pulling her to the floor and molesting her.

Miah only fled when the unnamed woman managed to used the SOS function on her mobile phone to call 999, letting out a loud beeping noise.

The victim, who works in Oldham, later told police: “Since the assault, I have not been able to leave the house or work.

'I do not know if he knows my route to work. I am scared to walk anywhere. I will have to rely on my friends or family to drive me to work out of fear.''

Miah gave no comment in police interview. His lawyer Saul Comish said in mitigation: ''This offence was quite opportunistic.

''He is in employment at a takeaway where he works from 4 to 11pm. He is married and is a father to a four-year-old child. If you feel a custodial sentence is required, he would lose his job and he the sole earner for his family, so this would have a significant impact."

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/man-who-attacked-woman-walking-20157910?utm_source=men_newsletter&utm_campaign=daily_newsletter2&utm_medium=email

by Original Quill Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:24 pm

Maddog wrote:
Korben wrote:
All crime is punished After the fact.

because a defence would be "i thought he was going to rape and murder me, so i shot him" the law cannot work like that

Ho do you think self defense works?

It's not self-defense if you kill first. You remind me of those Germans in the waning months of the of the war, who would jump onto a roadside, kill a bunch of allied soldiers, and immediately turn to the soldiers behind them and put up their hands expecting a respectful surrender.

It's how you southerners kill blacks...hang or kill a bunch of them, and turn around and claim self-defense. Look at: https://www.nytimes.com/article/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-georgia.html Mr. Arbery was enjoying a peaceful, early-morning jog, when suddenly a couple of armed whites shot him in cold blood. Their excuse? Self-defense...apparently against the crime of being a black man in a white neighborhood. Same story as Treyvon Martin.

Like all southerners, you just want a pathway to your violence and killing, along with an easy excuse to get away with it.

by Maddog Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:42 pm

Korben wrote:
Maddog wrote:

People harm each other with all sorts of weapons.

That doesn't mean people think it's an answer to everything. Everything has a meaning.

If it were an answer to everything, the tens of millions of Americans that own weapons would be using then daily on each other.

Guns are rarely thought to be the answer to anything, but that doesn't mean they never are.

There are times when a good human needs an extremely lethal device to stop a bad human.
Ah you para phrase the NRA mantra ."it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun

however research disagrees

"https://abcnews.go.com/US/breaking-nra-backed-theory-good-guy-gun-stops/story?id=53360480

Or good girl.

Depends on who's research you cite.

In any event, I don't care if others carry or don't carry. None of business. I'm only concerned when people are denied that right. I don't ever carry outside of a knife.

by Maddog Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:46 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Ho do you think self defense works?

It's not self-defense if you kill first. You remind me of those Germans in the waning months of the of the war, who would jump onto a roadside, kill a bunch of allied soldiers, and immediately turn to the soldiers behind them and put up their hands expecting a respectful surrender.

It's how you southerners kill blacks...hang or kill a bunch of them, and turn around and claim self-defense. Look at: https://www.nytimes.com/article/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-georgia.html Mr. Arbery was enjoying a peaceful, early-morning jog, when suddenly a couple of armed whites shot him in cold blood. Their excuse? Self-defense...apparently against the crime of being a black man in a white neighborhood. Same story as Treyvon Martin.

Like all southerners, you just want a pathway to your violence and killing, along with an easy excuse to get away with it.

So you have to use self defense after you're dead?

by Maddog Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:49 pm

by Guest Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:06 pm

Maddog wrote:
Korben wrote:
Its not a straw-man in America its a fact of life the amount of story's about neighbours shooting another neighbour over the stupidest of thing ,just last week a guy shot his neighbour over a trump sign https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/anti-donald-trump-campaigner-clayton-carter-shoot-republican-dead-head-george-jennings-a7895966.html

That doesn't mean people think it's an answer to everything.

from my view of America that would not appear to be the case it seems to me every time the wind changes some Americans go out and arm them self's to the teeth

by Original Quill Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:15 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

It's not self-defense if you kill first. You remind me of those Germans in the waning months of the of the war, who would jump onto a roadside, kill a bunch of allied soldiers, and immediately turn to the soldiers behind them and put up their hands expecting a respectful surrender.

It's how you southerners kill blacks...hang or kill a bunch of them, and turn around and claim self-defense. Look at: https://www.nytimes.com/article/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-georgia.html Mr. Arbery was enjoying a peaceful, early-morning jog, when suddenly a couple of armed whites shot him in cold blood. Their excuse? Self-defense...apparently against the crime of being a black man in a white neighborhood. Same story as Treyvon Martin.

Like all southerners, you just want a pathway to your violence and killing, along with an easy excuse to get away with it.

So you have to use self defense after you're dead?

The dead ones don't claim anything. Rolling Eyes

by Maddog Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:41 pm

Korben wrote:
Maddog wrote:

That doesn't mean people think it's an answer to everything.
from my view of America that would not appear to be the case it seems to me every time the wind changes some Americans go out and arm them self's to the teeth

Yup. Everyone is running around armed to the teeth. It's mayhem over here. Rolling Eyes

by Maddog Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:42 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

So you have to use self defense after you're dead?

The dead ones don't claim anything.

That's the problem. That's why we have a thread about a dead woman.

by Guest Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:02 pm

Maddog wrote:
Korben wrote:
from my view of America that would not appear to be the case it seems to me every time the wind changes some Americans go out and arm them self's to the teeth

Yup. Everyone is running around armed to the teeth. It's mayhem over here.

Given the amount of guns related deaths and violence in America you're not wrong (although i realise you where being sarcastic)

by Maddog Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:14 pm

Korben wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Yup. Everyone is running around armed to the teeth. It's mayhem over here.
Given the amount of guns related deaths and violence in America you're not wrong (although i realise you where being sarcastic)

We're just violent period. We don't even need guns. Sucks walking over the dead bodies lying around everywhere.

by Guest Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:15 pm

And given 725,368 guns are registered in Texas, the most of any state and 67% more registered guns than second-place Florida. and Texas had the highest number of forcible rape cases in the United States, with 14,824 reported rapes.Guns don't seem to be the answer

by Maddog Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:35 pm

Korben wrote:And given 725,368 guns are registered in Texas, the most of any state and 67% more registered guns than second-place Florida. and Texas had the highest number of forcible rape cases in the United States, with 14,824 reported rapes.Guns don't seem to be the answer

There are zero guns registered in Texas. We don't register them.

by Maddog Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:36 pm

There are millions of guns in Texas.

But they do no good if they are not carried when they are needed.

by Maddog Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:38 pm

What are the statistics for armed rape victims?

by Guest Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:43 pm

Maddog wrote:
Korben wrote:And given 725,368 guns are registered in Texas, the most of any state and 67% more registered guns than second-place Florida. and Texas had the highest number of forcible rape cases in the United States, with 14,824 reported rapes.Guns don't seem to be the answer

There are zero guns registered in Texas. We don't register them.

registered or Licensed it amounts to the same thing

Carrying a Handgun in Texas—With and Without a License

It’s illegal in Texas to carry a handgun without a license (either intentionally or recklessly), unless you are:

on property that you own or control, or
in or directly on the way to a motor vehicle or boat that you own or control.

License holders must carry their handguns either concealed or in a shoulder or belt holster; otherwise, it’s a crime for a license holder to purposefully display the handgun in a public place, unless it was under circumstances that would allow using force (such as in self-defense). It’s also illegal to carry a handgun while you’re intoxicated.

If you don’t have a license, you may not carry a handgun in plain view in your vehicle or boat. It’s also illegal to carry a handgun in a vehicle or boat if you’re engaged in criminal activity (other than traffic or boating violations), are a member of a criminal street gang, or are prohibited from possessing any firearm (as discussed below).

However, these restrictions do not apply to people who are:

traveling
engaged in, or on their way to or from, legal hunting or other sporting activity, but only if the gun is a type commonly used for that activity; or
on-duty police or certain other personnel authorized to carry a handgun.

The law doesn’t say what counts as “traveling,” so it would be up to the court to make that decision in any particular case. Depending on the circumstances, you may be charged with a misdemeanor or a third-degree felony for violating these restrictions. (Tex. Penal Code §§ 46.02, 46.15.)
Eligibility for a License to Carry in Texas

In order to qualify for a license to carry a handgun, you must successfully complete a gun-safety course and demonstrate your ability to use a handgun properly. Among the other eligibility requirements, you must also:

be a Texas resident
be at least 21 years old (or at least 18 if you’re a military member or vet with an honorable discharge
pass a background check to rule out applicants with certain types of criminal history
not be “chemically dependent” or suffering from certain psychiatric conditions, and
not be delinquent (under a final determination) in child-support or tax payments that are being collected by state officials.

by Guest Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:48 pm

Maddog wrote:What are the statistics for armed rape victims?

Whataboutisums hardly a good argument

you have more guns and more rapes

so the possibility of someone carrying a gun is not a deterrent

by Guest Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:55 pm

Giving women guns wouldn't prevent rape – it would land women in jail

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/23/dana-loesch-women-gun-reform-rapists

by Maddog Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:42 pm

Korben wrote:
Maddog wrote:What are the statistics for armed rape victims?
Whataboutisums hardly a good argument

you have more guns and more rapes

so the possibility of someone carrying a gun is not a deterrent

It's not a whataboutism to point out that a gun at home isn't worth a damn when you're walking down the street.

Me entire contention is that women who are ARMED can better defend themselves. Unarmed gun owners are not relevant.

by Original Quill Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:44 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

The dead ones don't claim anything.

That's the problem. That's why we have a thread about a dead woman.

Don't run from the subject. We were discussing self-defense.

Admit it: southerners, prone to violence and killing anyway, anticipate their propensity for violence and bloodshed by preconceiving their own self-defense. As we saw in the Trayvon Martin case, only the living get to tell their story. Killing the other person is an integral part of that defense.

So, it's a self-validating process...or should I say, a self-validating murder.

by Maddog Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:46 pm

Korben wrote:
Maddog wrote:

There are zero guns registered in Texas. We don't register them.

registered or Licensed it amounts to the same thing

Carrying a Handgun in Texas—With and Without a License

It’s illegal in Texas to carry a handgun without a license (either intentionally or recklessly), unless you are:

on property that you own or control, or
in or directly on the way to a motor vehicle or boat that you own or control.

License holders must carry their handguns either concealed or in a shoulder or belt holster; otherwise, it’s a crime for a license holder to purposefully display the handgun in a public place, unless it was under circumstances that would allow using force (such as in self-defense). It’s also illegal to carry a handgun while you’re intoxicated.

If you don’t have a license, you may not carry a handgun in plain view in your vehicle or boat. It’s also illegal to carry a handgun in a vehicle or boat if you’re engaged in criminal activity (other than traffic or boating violations), are a member of a criminal street gang, or are prohibited from possessing any firearm (as discussed below).

However, these restrictions do not apply to people who are:

traveling
engaged in, or on their way to or from, legal hunting or other sporting activity, but only if the gun is a type commonly used for that activity; or
on-duty police or certain other personnel authorized to carry a handgun.

The law doesn’t say what counts as “traveling,” so it would be up to the court to make that decision in any particular case. Depending on the circumstances, you may be charged with a misdemeanor or a third-degree felony for violating these restrictions. (Tex. Penal Code §§ 46.02, 46.15.)
Eligibility for a License to Carry in Texas

In order to qualify for a license to carry a handgun, you must successfully complete a gun-safety course and demonstrate your ability to use a handgun properly. Among the other eligibility requirements, you must also:

be a Texas resident
be at least 21 years old (or at least 18 if you’re a military member or vet with an honorable discharge
pass a background check to rule out applicants with certain types of criminal history
not be “chemically dependent” or suffering from certain psychiatric conditions, and
not be delinquent (under a final determination) in child-support or tax payments that are being collected by state officials.

I know the laws. We license or register people who want to carry handguns (not rifles or shotguns) outside of their homes, property or vehicles.

We don't register or license the guns. No one knows how many or what kind of guns any of us own.

by Maddog Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:48 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

That's the problem. That's why we have a thread about a dead woman.

Don't run from the subject. We were discussing self-defense.

Admit it: southerners, prone to violence and killing anyway, anticipate their propensity for violence and bloodshed by preconceiving their own self-defense. As we saw in the Trayvon Martin case, only the living get to tell their story. So, it's a self-validating process.

I'm not running from the subject. We are talking about a dead woman who was overpowered by a man.

That's the fucking subject. I would prefer that women had a device available, should they feel the need, to defend themselves.

You don't.

Guess you're a little less pro choice than me.

by Guest Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:06 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Don't run from the subject. We were discussing self-defense.

Admit it: southerners, prone to violence and killing anyway, anticipate their propensity for violence and bloodshed by preconceiving their own self-defense. As we saw in the Trayvon Martin case, only the living get to tell their story. So, it's a self-validating process.

I'm not running from the subject. We are talking about a dead woman who was overpowered by a man.

That's the fucking subject. I would prefer that women had a device available, should they feel the need, to defend themselves.

You don't.

Guess you're a little less pro choice than me.

What about the women who would not be Licensed to carry a gun due to age or other barring laws such as delinquent in child-support or tax payments

delinquent in child-support or tax payments seems to me a fucking stupid reason anyway not to License people anyway

by Guest Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:09 pm

to and in support of your point Quill

The American South has long been more violent than the North. Colorful descriptions of duels, feuds, bushwhackings, and lynchings feature prominently in visitors’ accounts, newspaper articles, and autobiographies from the eighteenth century onward. Statistics bear out these impressions. For example, over the period 1865–1915, the homicide rate in the South was ten times the current rate for the whole United States, and twice the rate in our most violent cities. Modern homicide statistics tell the same story.

https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/712842.html

by Maddog Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:01 am

Korben wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I'm not running from the subject. We are talking about a dead woman who was overpowered by a man.

That's the fucking subject. I would prefer that women had a device available, should they feel the need, to defend themselves.

You don't.

Guess you're a little less pro choice than me.
What about the women who would not be Licensed to carry a gun due to age or other barring laws such as delinquent in child-support or tax payments

delinquent in child-support or tax payments seems to me a fucking stupid reason anyway not to License people anyway

We don't have an income tax in Texas, so very few women would have to worry about other taxes you would have to pay to the state.

And yeah, having a state license requires you to be current on child support. I don't have a handgun carry license but I do have a professional license and I had to stay current on my child support back in the day, or I could lose my ability to renew.

I mean technically, you are committing a crime when you don't pay child support.

The bigger problem facing women is the problem of carrying a chunk of metal that weighs several pounds. Especially a young woman out on the town with a small purse. There is no way to conceal it. Also, you cant carry in clubs and the like. You're not supposed to carry in an Uber and I really don't know the law on public transportation, but I'm guessing you can't carry there. So women leave the weapon in the car, if they even bring it out of the house.

I know a girl that always carries and if we are riding bikes and stop at a brewery she waits outside and we bring the beer out to her. Carrying is such a pain than very few people do it on a regular basis. Now they do carry in their vehicles, but that won't help the woman walking down the street alone at night.

by Maddog Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:07 am

Korben wrote:to and in support of your point Quill

The American South has long been more violent than the North. Colorful descriptions of duels, feuds, bushwhackings, and lynchings feature prominently in visitors’ accounts, newspaper articles, and autobiographies from the eighteenth century onward. Statistics bear out these impressions. For example, over the period 1865–1915, the homicide rate in the South was ten times the current rate for the whole United States, and twice the rate in our most violent cities. Modern homicide statistics tell the same story.

https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/712842.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/the-most-dangerous-cities-in-america/

A bit more recent ranking of violence.

Of the top 10, two are in what we would call the South maybe 4 if you want to count Springfield and St Louis as part of the South. I don't.

Quill makes shit up and he gaslights. You will be made a fool of, if you blindly follow his pretentious, proclamations.

by Maddog Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:21 am

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/blog/top100dangerous

And 2021 is shaping up the same.

You will notice quite a few California cities on that list too. Cool

by HoratioTarr Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:58 am

It's finally being revealed that Extinction Rebellion, Antifa and Black Lives Matter infiltrated Clapham event in order to whip up trouble. Sadly, no matter the good cause behind these vigils and demonstrations there's always an element that get into the core of it to cause violence. All it takes is a handful to start spitting or attacking the police and the whole thing implodes. This is obviously what happened.

by Syl Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:54 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:It's finally being revealed that Extinction Rebellion, Antifa and Black Lives Matter infiltrated Clapham event in order to whip up trouble. Sadly, no matter the good cause behind these vigils and demonstrations there's always an element that get into the core of it to cause violence. All it takes is a handful to start spitting or attacking the police and the whole thing implodes. This is obviously what happened.

Rent a mob are always on the look out for the next gathering where they can start trouble. A couple of decades ago they would be in the football grounds, not because they supported football but because they are violent thugs.

Nowadays the pickings are richer and they head to whatever gathering, protest, vigil is happening, just as they inflamed the BLM demonstrations last year they did the same here.

The police were in a situation where they couldn't do right for doing wrong.
'Reclaim the street' organisation were refused permission to hold a public vigil by the High Court, they decided to hold it online, but still thousands of women wanted to show their support near where Sarah had been murdered.
Because of lockdown they were breaking the law, the police have been told to break up illegal gatherings. No doubt some were heavy handed with the none disruptive women, no doubt they were provoked and attacked by the protesters who have no interest in womens safety and were just there for the fun of it.

The police were in a lose/lose situation.

by Tommy Monk Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:23 pm

This may be news to some people, but women are killed by women... and men are killed by women too...

I was reading a story only yesterday about a man who was stabbed 22 times in an attack by his wife.

Men are victims of domestic violence by women, a lot more than you might think... And are victims of sexual harassment and sexual assault too.

by Original Quill Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:16 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:It's finally being revealed that Extinction Rebellion, Antifa and Black Lives Matter infiltrated Clapham event in order to whip up trouble.

I doubt that...and I"ve seen no proof. BLM is strictly an American organization, as it opposes a de facto American policy of treating blacks and whites unequally. Antifa is a sentiment, not an organization; it's the equivalent of saying 'the left infiltrated Clapham...' So what?

Those claims are so fraught with ambiguities as to make them meaningless. As Syl says, it's probably a 'Rent-a-mob'. It's like an army saying, God is on our side. Unless you have some physical manifestation to prove the allegation, it's just rhetoric. Rolling Eyes

by Original Quill Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:40 pm

Maddog wrote:https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/blog/top100dangerous

And 2021 is shaping up the same.

You will notice quite a few California cities on that list too.

Hahaha...only 5 (out of 100). And some of those, like Lancaster, are small enough to be affected by one incident.

The fact is, California has the largest population in the nation—40-million. There are 21 other states whose population could fit inside California, and California would have capacity left over. Yet California has only 5 cities (out of 100) that qualify on your list.

We Californians must be doing something right. Perhaps it's our gun laws. Perhaps it’s our enforcement. And, it could be that we get along more peacefully than cities in the south...based, as the south is, on slavery and racism. We know, for example, that a lot of the homicides in the south are actually white murderers who got off with lax self-defense laws (Treyvon Martin), or lax law enforcement for whites (Ahmaud Arbery).

by Guest Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:18 pm

Original Quill wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:It's finally being revealed that Extinction Rebellion, Antifa and Black Lives Matter infiltrated Clapham event in order to whip up trouble.

I doubt that...and I"ve seen no proof. BLM is strictly an American organization, as it opposes a de facto American policy of treating blacks and whites unequally. Antifa is a sentiment, not an organization; it's the equivalent of saying 'the left infiltrated Clapham...' So what?

Those claims are so fraught with ambiguities as to make them meaningless. As Syl says, it's probably a 'Rent-a-mob'. It's like an army saying, God is on our side. Unless you have some physical manifestation to prove the allegation, it's just rhetoric.

Although BLM started in the states i don't think its exclusively American any more as we do have a form of the BLM movement in the uk

As to this Antifa rubbish its not a "organised movement" its a idea My mum and dad where "Antifa" i am Antifa. 99.9% of the people i know are Antifa ,3 of my uncles died fighting for "Antifa" the label is nothing more than an attempt by the RW to give the left wing a scary name.
i would hope everybody in this forum is anti-fascist(with a notable exception) because the opposite of anti-fascist is pro fascist .....we fought a war over this shit and the anti-fascist won

by Maddog Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:27 pm

Original Quill wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:It's finally being revealed that Extinction Rebellion, Antifa and Black Lives Matter infiltrated Clapham event in order to whip up trouble.

I doubt that...and I"ve seen no proof. BLM is strictly an American organization, as it opposes a de facto American policy of treating blacks and whites unequally. Antifa is a sentiment, not an organization; it's the equivalent of saying 'the left infiltrated Clapham...' So what?

Those claims are so fraught with ambiguities as to make them meaningless. As Syl says, it's probably a 'Rent-a-mob'. It's like an army saying, God is on our side. Unless you have some physical manifestation to prove the allegation, it's just rhetoric.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/11/black-lives-matter-uk-to-start-funding-groups-from-12m-donations

You make being full of shit a fucking art from.

by Maddog Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:28 pm

Korben wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I doubt that...and I"ve seen no proof. BLM is strictly an American organization, as it opposes a de facto American policy of treating blacks and whites unequally. Antifa is a sentiment, not an organization; it's the equivalent of saying 'the left infiltrated Clapham...' So what?

Those claims are so fraught with ambiguities as to make them meaningless. As Syl says, it's probably a 'Rent-a-mob'. It's like an army saying, God is on our side. Unless you have some physical manifestation to prove the allegation, it's just rhetoric.
Although BLM started in the states i don't think its exclusively American any more as we do have a form of the BLM movement in the uk

As to this Antifa rubbish its not a "organised movement" its a idea My mum and dad where "Antifa" i am Antifa. 99.9% of the people i know are Antifa ,3 of my uncles died fighting for "Antifa" the label is nothing more than an attempt by the RW to give the left wing a scary name.
i would hope everybody in this forum is anti-fascist(with a notable exception) because the opposite of anti-fascist is pro fascist .....we fought a war over this shit and the anti-fascist won

Then I guess we're all members of BLM, unless you don't think black lives matter.

by Guest Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:10 pm

Maddog wrote:
Korben wrote:
Although BLM started in the states i don't think its exclusively American any more as we do have a form of the BLM movement in the uk

As to this Antifa rubbish its not a "organised movement" its a idea My mum and dad where "Antifa" i am Antifa. 99.9% of the people i know are Antifa ,3 of my uncles died fighting for "Antifa" the label is nothing more than an attempt by the RW to give the left wing a scary name.
i would hope everybody in this forum is anti-fascist(with a notable exception) because the opposite of anti-fascist is pro fascist .....we fought a war over this shit and the anti-fascist won

Then I guess we're all members of BLM, unless you don't think black lives matter.

Nobody involved in the Black Lives Matter movement is saying that only black lives matter, or that all lives don't matter, or that white lives don't matter. The issue is that is white lives have always seemed to matter more What i think Black Lives Matter as a movement is saying is that all those lives matter equally. Black lives have to matter just as much as everybody else's Saying black people deserve to be treated better isn't saying anyone else should be treated worse. But sadly, for many reasons, some people are happy for this injustice to continue, so they say things like 'white lives matter' or 'all lives matter' to take our attention away from the real issue

by Maddog Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:51 pm

Korben wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Then I guess we're all members of BLM, unless you don't think black lives matter.
Nobody involved in the Black Lives Matter movement is saying that only black lives matter, or that all lives don't matter, or that white lives don't matter. The issue is that is white lives have always seemed to matter more What i think Black Lives Matter as a movement is saying is that all those lives matter equally. Black lives have to matter just as much as everybody else's Saying black people deserve to be treated better isn't saying anyone else should be treated worse. But sadly, for many reasons, some people are happy for this injustice to continue, so they say things like 'white lives matter' or 'all lives matter' to take our attention away from the real issue

Your response has nothing to do with my comment.

Does thinking black lives matter make you a member of BLM?

by Guest Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:01 pm

Maddog wrote:
Korben wrote:
Nobody involved in the Black Lives Matter movement is saying that only black lives matter, or that all lives don't matter, or that white lives don't matter. The issue is that is white lives have always seemed to matter more What i think Black Lives Matter as a movement is saying is that all those lives matter equally. Black lives have to matter just as much as everybody else's Saying black people deserve to be treated better isn't saying anyone else should be treated worse. But sadly, for many reasons, some people are happy for this injustice to continue, so they say things like 'white lives matter' or 'all lives matter' to take our attention away from the real issue

Your response has nothing to do with my comment.

Does thinking black lives matter make you a member of BLM?

What kind of responce where you looking for ? Do you think BLM ,do you think blacks are treated differently to whites .did you want me to say All life's matter ? and thus minimising the "slogan" BLM as was my point

by Original Quill Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:09 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I doubt that...and I"ve seen no proof. BLM is strictly an American organization, as it opposes a de facto American policy of treating blacks and whites unequally. Antifa is a sentiment, not an organization; it's the equivalent of saying 'the left infiltrated Clapham...' So what?

Those claims are so fraught with ambiguities as to make them meaningless. As Syl says, it's probably a 'Rent-a-mob'. It's like an army saying, God is on our side. Unless you have some physical manifestation to prove the allegation, it's just rhetoric.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/11/black-lives-matter-uk-to-start-funding-groups-from-12m-donations

You make being full of shit a fucking art from.

That's all you have? Complete bullshite? You can only respond with an inartful personal assault?

I was expecting some sort of brief evidence that we might argue over. Have you told HT that you can find no substantiation of her claims? Have you told HT that BLM doesn’t exist in the UK? Or, that Antifa is a mere chimera?

That would be the respectful thing to do while surrendering. I mean…don’t hang your cohorts with you. Mad

by Guest Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:14 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/11/black-lives-matter-uk-to-start-funding-groups-from-12m-donations

You make being full of shit a fucking art from.

That's all you have? Complete bullshite? You can only respond with an inartful personal assault?

I was expecting some sort of brief evidence that we might argue over. Have you told HT that you can find no substantiation of her claims? Have you told HT that BLM doesn’t exist in the UK? Or, that Antifa is a mere chimera?

That would be the respectful thing to do while surrendering. I mean…don’t hang your cohorts with you.

personal assault ? Are you on crack? there was no personal assault (except this one) i was responding to Quill about BLM being exclusively American and pointing out we have a BLM movement in the uk as well Not sure why your dragging HT in to it

by Guest Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:17 pm

Also i haven't resorted to personal abuse at any time to you why do you feel the need to respond to me with it

when people use personal abuse its often because they find the point valid and have no rebuttal ...... want to try again with some civility

by Guest Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:21 pm

Apologies MD and Quill i mistakenly thought your comments where directed at me Embarassed

by Syl Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:36 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

This may be news to some people, but women are killed by women... and men are killed by women too...

I was reading a story only yesterday about a man who was stabbed 22 times in an attack by his wife.

Men are victims of domestic violence by women, a lot more than you might think... And are victims of sexual harassment and sexual assault too.

Yes start a thread about it Tommy.

This is about the huge % of women who are afraid to go out alone at night for fear of male sexual interference.

If men are afraid to go out at night alone it will be because of the actions of other men....not women.

by Guest Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:40 pm

Syl wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

This may be news to some people, but women are killed by women... and men are killed by women too...

I was reading a story only yesterday about a man who was stabbed 22 times in an attack by his wife.

Men are victims of domestic violence by women, a lot more than you might think... And are victims of sexual harassment and sexual assault too.

Yes start a thread about it Tommy.

This is about the huge % of women who are afraid to go out alone at night for fear of male sexual interference.

If men are afraid to go out at night alone it will be because of the actions of other men....not women.

Domestic violence vs women abducted of the street and raped and murdered By exclusively men ...sure there the same thing ....NOT

by Maddog Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:52 pm

Korben wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Your response has nothing to do with my comment.

Does thinking black lives matter make you a member of BLM?
What kind of responce where you looking for ? Do you think BLM ,do you think blacks are treated differently to whites .did you want me to say All life's matter ? and thus minimising the "slogan" BLM as was my point

My point is, you can be against fascism and not support the antics of antifa and believe that black lives matter and not support the BLM group.

by Maddog Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:53 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/11/black-lives-matter-uk-to-start-funding-groups-from-12m-donations

You make being full of shit a fucking art from.

That's all you have? Complete bullshite? You can only respond with an inartful personal assault?

I was expecting some sort of brief evidence that we might argue over. Have you told HT that you can find no substantiation of her claims? Have you told HT that BLM doesn’t exist in the UK? Or, that Antifa is a mere chimera?

That would be the respectful thing to do while surrendering. I mean…don’t hang your cohorts with you.

You wouldn't have to come up with these bullshit responses to your bullshit, if you'd just bullshit a lot less.

by Guest Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:08 pm

Maddog wrote:
Korben wrote:
What kind of responce where you looking for ? Do you think BLM ,do you think blacks are treated differently to whites .did you want me to say All life's matter ? and thus minimising the "slogan" BLM as was my point

My point is, you can be against fascism and not support the antics of antifa and believe that black lives matter and not support the BLM group.

You could also not blame a whole movement and or idea for the actions of a few criminals especially as there is evidence these groups have be "infiltrated" by people intent on causing mayhem so that the whole group get blamed and cast in a negative or indeed violent light
and use peaceful protests as a opportunity to act in a criminal manner.

by Original Quill Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:34 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

That's all you have? Complete bullshite? You can only respond with an inartful personal assault?

I was expecting some sort of brief evidence that we might argue over. Have you told HT that you can find no substantiation of her claims? Have you told HT that BLM doesn’t exist in the UK? Or, that Antifa is a mere chimera?

That would be the respectful thing to do while surrendering. I mean…don’t hang your cohorts with you.

You wouldn't have to come up with these bullshit responses to your bullshit, if you'd just bullshit a lot less.

Face it...you're off on a dead-end. You got here by abandoning the discussion.

You abandoned the effort because you were boxed-in...all of your arguments were rebutted. Now, you're left with a few colorful swear words, and the only target left...the messenger who rebutted your pitiful efforts.

It's a woeful place to be, I realize. Next time, choose more solid ground, and only accept valid inferences. Choose thought before action, as Sheldon Wolin used to say in his lectures.

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