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Around half the UK population have now already had covid19

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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:24 pm

First topic message reminder :




It is said that for every case that requires hospital treatment, there are at least another 100 cases in the wider population.


Going by that figure, it is now likely to be around 30 million people here in UK who have already had covid19.


And having already had their immune systems successfully fight off this new virus... They don't need any vaccine.


We are not talking about smallpox here, or the plague or ebola etc... We are talking about a version of the common cold virus that for nearly 99.9% of people it causes either no symptoms or mild/moderate symptoms much like influenza causes.



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Post by eddie Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:46 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:I hate this attitude that the majority of people who died were old with underlying illness, so they had Covid when they died, but that didn't really kill them ... and anyway, they would have died soon anyway.

Millions of people are old, millions have underlying illnesses, and guess what....they live on for years.

Covid isn't killing them.   Their own immune response is what's killing them.

Can you go into this further, perhaps start a thread?

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Post by Vintage Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:17 pm

As far as I have heard, the immune system can go into overdrive and start attacking healthy cells, not just in covid The Israelis are testing two drugs which dampen down the immune overreaction and patients given these drugs have been well enough to leave hospital, the majority after five treatments. its something like EXO-CD24(this one is inhaled) and Allocetra, don't know much about this but it is in used for other inflammatory problems. It seems promising.

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Post by Guest Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:18 pm

Vintage wrote:As far as I have heard, the immune system can go into overdrive and start attacking healthy cells, not just in covid The Israelis are testing two drugs which dampen down the immune overreaction and patients given these drugs have been well enough to leave hospital, the majority after five treatments. its something like EXO-CD24(this one is inhaled) and Allocetra, don't know much about this but it is in used for other inflammatory problems. It seems promising.
This is my understanding Also

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Post by Syl Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:04 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:I hate this attitude that the majority of people who died were old with underlying illness, so they had Covid when they died, but that didn't really kill them ... and anyway, they would have died soon anyway.

Millions of people are old, millions have underlying illnesses, and guess what....they live on for years.

Covid isn't killing them.   Their own immune response is what's killing them.
Had they not caught Covid they would be alive still.

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Post by Syl Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:11 am

Korben wrote:my family get tested every week for covid as part of the ONS study and we have not had it,in fact i know nobody personally that has  
I know  few people who have had it and felt poorly for a week or so, they were young and got over it OK.

My neighbours two brothers both died from Covid. Both had underlying medical conditions, certainly nothing serious enough to die from.
Both were admitted to hospital for unrelated treatment, caught Covid in hospital, and both died.

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Post by Guest Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:39 am

Syl wrote:
Korben wrote:my family get tested every week for covid as part of the ONS study and we have not had it,in fact i know nobody personally that has  
I know  few people who have had it and felt poorly for a week or so, they were young and got over it OK.

My neighbours two brothers both died from Covid. Both had underlying medical conditions, certainly nothing serious enough to die from.
Both were admitted to hospital for unrelated treatment, caught Covid in hospital, and both died.
Sorry to here that Syl ,,,this dam virus seems pretty random on who it kills .i saw in the news a 101 year old guy survived while a lot younger people died

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Post by Syl Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:44 am

Korben wrote:
Syl wrote:
I know  few people who have had it and felt poorly for a week or so, they were young and got over it OK.

My neighbours two brothers both died from Covid. Both had underlying medical conditions, certainly nothing serious enough to die from.
Both were admitted to hospital for unrelated treatment, caught Covid in hospital, and both died.
Sorry to here that Syl ,,,this dam virus seems pretty random on who it kills .i saw in the news a 101 year old guy survived while a lot younger people died  
Thanks Korben, it has certainly devastated so many lives.

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Post by Guest Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:59 am

Seems to me (anecdotally) when a member of a family contracts Covid they are multiple deaths in that family i wonder if they is a genetic component to severity and Survivability that would perhaps make sense, as they seem to be more deaths in the Black community who seem oddly to have worse symptoms and more deaths

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Post by HoratioTarr Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:57 am

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Covid isn't killing them.   Their own immune response is what's killing them.
Had they not caught Covid they would be alive still.

That doesn't change what actually kills them. They might just as easily catch other viruses with the same outcome.
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Post by HoratioTarr Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:59 am

Korben wrote:Seems to me (anecdotally) when a member of a family contracts Covid they are multiple deaths in that family i wonder if they is a genetic component to severity and Survivability that would perhaps make sense, as they seem to be more deaths in the Black community who seem oddly to have worse symptoms and more deaths

They are discovering that genes in certain people are triggering the massive inflammation response.  So, this explains why some young, healthy people are still dying from it.
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Post by HoratioTarr Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:01 am

Our immune system is everything. Everything. And it all begins and ends in your gut. Healthy gut, good immune system. Unhealthy gut, you better sort it.
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Post by Syl Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:19 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:Our immune system is everything.  Everything.  And it all begins and ends in your gut.   Healthy gut, good immune system.  Unhealthy gut, you better sort it.  

In that case you could attribute the immune system to be the cause of almost any disease or virus.
What about everyone who dies of cancer? Are you saying the cancer didn't kill them their own immune system killed them?

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Post by Guest Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:22 pm

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:Our immune system is everything.  Everything.  And it all begins and ends in your gut.   Healthy gut, good immune system.  Unhealthy gut, you better sort it.  

In that case you could attribute the immune system to be the cause of almost any disease or virus.
What about everyone who dies of cancer? Are you saying the cancer didn't kill them their own immune system killed them?
Cancer is a disease in which abnormal cells divide without control and can invade nearby tissues.

Now i am not a doctor but my understanding its the invasion of organs and nearby tissues that kills you

An analogy would be ....say a biological rust ,you can remove or treat the rusted areas ,but it gets to the point that the "rust" destroys so much it can't be fixed and it fails

So wile the underlying cause is the "rust" the thing that kills is the damage done by that "rust"

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Post by Syl Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:55 pm

Korben wrote:
Syl wrote:

In that case you could attribute the immune system to be the cause of almost any disease or virus.
What about everyone who dies of cancer? Are you saying the cancer didn't kill them their own immune system killed them?
Cancer is a disease in which abnormal cells divide without control and can invade nearby tissues.

Now i am not a doctor but my understanding its the invasion of organs and nearby tissues that kills you

An analogy would be ....say a biological rust ,you can remove or treat the rusted areas ,but it gets to the point that the "rust" destroys so much it can't be fixed and it fails

So wile the underlying cause is the "rust" the thing that kills is the damage done by that "rust"

My knowledge of medical matters, unless I have had something myself and know what I am talking about... Laughing ...is very limited.
So I will bow to your and HT's superior knowledge on this Korben.

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Post by Guest Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:53 pm

Syl wrote:
Korben wrote:
Cancer is a disease in which abnormal cells divide without control and can invade nearby tissues.

Now i am not a doctor but my understanding its the invasion of organs and nearby tissues that kills you

An analogy would be ....say a biological rust ,you can remove or treat the rusted areas ,but it gets to the point that the "rust" destroys so much it can't be fixed and it fails

So wile the underlying cause is the "rust" the thing that kills is the damage done by that "rust"

My knowledge of medical matters, unless I have had something myself and know what I am talking about... Laughing ...is very limited.
So I will bow to your and HT's superior knowledge on this Korben.
Thanks but i can not claim any superior knowledge nor would i, in medical matters and am happy to be corrected if i have got something wrong or not explained it correctly

All i have is My navy training in first aid and a keen interest in many subjects (including medicine) to relate to

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Post by Vintage Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:01 pm

This is where the immune system comes in again, from what I've been told anyway, just about everyone gets abnormal cell growth or potential abnormal cell growth but it is possible for the immune system to recognise these and destroy them before they become a problem but for some reason there are times - too many, when this fails to happen. There have been some good outcomes where the immune system has been boosted and actually successfully attacked the cancer. The body has to be able to acknowledge rogue cells but as they are your own cells its not always that easy it seems. The abnormal cells refuse to die so if we ever find the off switch for cell death, it'll be a good day. That's what was explained to me anyway.

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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:50 pm





Daily tests are at 863,658


Positive test results are at 6,573


All the vulnerable groups have had at least one vaccination now.


Time to end restrictions!



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Post by Original Quill Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:40 pm

Vintage wrote:This is where the immune system comes in again, from what I've been told anyway, just about everyone gets abnormal cell growth or potential abnormal cell growth but it is possible for the immune system to recognise these and destroy them before they become a problem but for some reason there are times - too many, when this fails to happen. There have been some good outcomes where the immune system has been boosted and actually successfully attacked the cancer. The body has to be able to acknowledge rogue cells but as they are your own cells its not always that easy it seems. The abnormal cells refuse to die so if we ever find the off switch for cell death, it'll be a good day. That's what was explained to me anyway.

Fascinating discussion, by you and HT. Thanks for the enlightenment.

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Post by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:15 pm




992,000 daily tests, 5177 cases...


That's only about 0.5% of tests coming back positive!


22 million people have had at least 1 vaccination now...


End restrictions now!





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Post by Original Quill Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:24 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

992,000 daily tests, 5177 cases...

That's only about 0.5% of tests coming back positive!

22 million people have had at least 1 vaccination now...

End restrictions now!

And bring down another genocide? Brilliant! Rolling Eyes

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Post by Tommy Monk Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:49 pm




Oh do fuck off...



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Post by Original Quill Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:31 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Oh do fuck off...

Nuff said... Twisted Evil I'll take that as an admission of the point.

Next question?

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:59 am




https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14642180/quarter-covid-deaths-not-caused-by-virus/


As I've been saying for ages... And likely just the tip of the iceberg with regards to numbers of listed covid deaths that in reality were not deaths caused by covid at all...!



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Post by Syl Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:49 am

We talked about this ages ago. It was pointed out then that the weekly figures the government release are not the same as the ONS figures.
They use different data to compile them.

If someone is ill and then also catches covid, it may say on their death certificate that covid was the cause of death.
They may well have died of cancer eventually, but without the additional complications of the virus they perhaps could have lived on.

So what was the cause of death?

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:58 pm




A guy was on the radio phone in yesterday morning, saying his wife was ill with leukemia for some time, she was admitted to hospital for the last 6 weeks of her life, each week getting tested for covid... Each time test came back negative and her death was listed as leukemia... The man said he asked the head nurse on the ward what would have happened if one of those tests had shown positive and was told that then the death would have been listed as a covid death.


The total dead number is now being stated that they died WITH covid, ie that they had tested positive before dying, not necessarily died FROM covid...



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Post by Original Quill Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:32 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

A guy was on the radio phone in yesterday morning, saying his wife was ill with leukemia for some time, she was admitted to hospital for the last 6 weeks of her life, each week getting tested for covid... Each time test came back negative and her death was listed as leukemia... The man said he asked the head nurse on the ward what would have happened if one of those tests had shown positive and was told that then the death would have been listed as a covid death.

The total dead number is now being stated that they died WITH covid, ie that they had tested positive before dying, not necessarily died FROM covid...

There is really no difference. Most forms re: cause of death, require 'cause of death' in one box, and 'contributing causes' listed in another box. The cause immediately prior to the actual death, is generally listed as 'cause of death' on the theory that it is the 'straw that broke the camel's back'.

There is no metric or co-efficient to the measure the relative magnitude of the specific cause in the fact. Nor is there a co-efficient to measure which malady (leukemia or covid) is more substantial, and thus "most" threatening in general. In the case you put forth, tom, the head nurse was simply stating what would have been the most immediate cause to 'break the camel's back'...the wife having had covid most recently.

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:57 pm




But the death is listed on the covid death figures if they had a positive test, although they died of something totally different and in many cases had no symptoms from the covid and it played no part in their demise


That's the point that's being made here.



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Post by Original Quill Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:But the death is listed on the covid death figures if they had a positive test, although they died of something totally different and in many cases had no symptoms from the covid and it played no part in their demise

That's the point that's being made here.

I'm sure they had symptoms. You can't tell if they had covid if they have no symptoms. Moreover, covid is severe enough to have killed some 550,000 souls here in the US. They are calling it the "Republican Genocide" over here.

Unless the deceased died of an in-grown toenail, if they had covid and it was the 'straw that broke the camel's back', the cause of death was covid.

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:12 pm




What rubbish!


They are tested for it, that's how it is known they have it... And I have already posted up a Reuters article that said 86% of people tested positive during a certain period of time didn't have any symptoms at all.


So of course it is entirely plausible that many of those on the covid death list also had no symptoms and died of other things, and covid wasn't in any way causing their death.



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Post by Original Quill Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:56 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:What rubbish!

They are tested for it, that's how it is known they have it... And I have already posted up a Reuters article that said 86% of people tested positive during a certain period of time didn't have any symptoms at all.

So of course it is entirely plausible that many of those on the covid death list also had no symptoms and died of other things, and covid wasn't in any way causing their death.

When you test, you are looking for symptoms. You don't get into a debate about relative weights of a disease or malady. The specific test is the but for test: but for the specific malady, would the patient have died?

We went through this debate with aids. Aids doesn't kill, it attacks the immune system. But with an impaired immune system, the first cold you get turns into pneumonia.

Most aids deaths, the cause of death listed was pneumonia...because, that was what happened. Sure, aids caused an impaired system, but the actual cause of death was pneumonia.

Did pneumonia cause the death, or did aids? Well...which was the straw that broke the camel's back? The 'but-for'? This is the difference between clinical medicine and public health. The clinical physician might say he died of pneumonia, but the public health practitioner knows it's aids.

I know a man who had advanced pancreatic cancer, but on the given day he had a fatal heart attack; what result?

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:29 pm




No... The test is done to establish if the virus is present or not in the person being tested... And the Reuters article that I posted earlier on this thread showed that 86% of people who tested positive, were asymptomatic...


If someone is fit and well, and they get the covid, and then they get severe symptoms and end up going to hospital and then get worse and die from it, then of course this should be listed as a covid death ...


But what has been happening is that many people who are suffering from severe health problems and already have a prognosis that they are right at the end of their lives because of this, with maybe only days/weeks to live, and they are then hospitalised because of these illnesses, and ultimately die from these illnesses, but then end up being listed as covid deaths although it was nothing to do with their demise.



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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:13 pm

I see what you're saying, Tommy.

It's not an issue over whether an underlying health problem was exaccerbated by covid and led to death, it's over whether people who were infected with covid but died of something completely unrelated to covid, like an auto accident for an extreme example, should have covid listed as their cause of death.

I must add, though, that I've seen no evidence that's happening -- that people who died of something unrelated to covid have been listed as covid victims.

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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:02 am

Tommy Monk wrote:


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14642180/quarter-covid-deaths-not-caused-by-virus/


As I've been saying for ages... And likely just the tip of the iceberg with regards to numbers of listed covid deaths that in reality were not deaths caused by covid at all...!



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Post by Original Quill Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:06 am

Tommy Monk wrote:No... The test is done to establish if the virus is present or not in the person being tested... And the Reuters article that I posted earlier on this thread showed that 86% of people who tested positive, were asymptomatic...

Asymptomatic people are still spreaders.

Tommy Monk wrote:If someone is fit and well, and they get the covid, and then they get severe symptoms and end up going to hospital and then get worse and die from it, then of course this should be listed as a covid death ...

But what has been happening is that many people who are suffering from severe health problems and already have a prognosis that they are right at the end of their lives because of this, with maybe only days/weeks to live, and they are then hospitalised because of these illnesses, and ultimately die from these illnesses, but then end up being listed as covid deaths although it was nothing to do with their demise.

How would you know which caused the death?  Do you think physicians sit around over whiskey’s at the end of the day, and prognosticate: he was at the end of his life, I vote for cancer.  Another says, …I don’t know, he was wheezing a lot there at the end.

No, they link the two, causally, if they can be linked, and determine which “straw broke the camel’s back”.  "In law, medicine, and statistics, cause of death is an official determination of conditions resulting in a human's death, which may be recorded on a death certificate. A cause of death is determined by a medical examiner." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cause_of_death

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Post by Original Quill Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:16 am

Tommy Monk wrote:https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14642180/quarter-covid-deaths-not-caused-by-virus/

As I've been saying for ages... And likely just the tip of the iceberg with regards to numbers of listed covid deaths that in reality were not deaths caused by covid at all...!

Sounds like they are pretty sloppy on that side of the pond. Could it be the socialized medicine that you guys have?

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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:08 am




Asymptomatic people are not ill with covid... Therefore not killed by covid.



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Post by Syl Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:44 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:


Asymptomatic people are not ill with covid... Therefore not killed by covid.



That's right, and that's one of the reasons this virus has managed to infect so many people globally.

People can obviously spread it without even knowing they have it

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Post by Original Quill Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:05 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Asymptomatic people are not ill with covid... Therefore not killed by covid.

The question isn't whether they are "killed", but whether they can spread the virus.  Spread is the danger.  Here is an article I found.

UCHealth wrote:The truth about COVID-19 and asymptomatic spread: It’s common, so wear a mask and avoid large gatherings

Studies show that at least 40-to-50% of people who test positive for COVID-19 have no symptoms. Medical experts say asymptomatic spread clearly is contributing to fall spikes of COVID-19.

By: Katie Kerwin McCrimmon, UCHealth

Asymptomatic spread has been one of the most mysterious and haunting aspects of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.

Do people without any symptoms of COVID-19 help spread the virus? The alarming answer is yes.

Evidence continues to mount that a large percentage of people who test positive for COVID-19 don’t have any obvious symptoms.

Among the research related to asymptomatic spread of the coronavirus so far:

Up to 50% of people who had COVID-19 in Iceland were asymptomatic after health officials did broad lab testing of the population there.

Nearly 40% of children ages 6 to 13 tested positive for COVID-19, but were asymptomatic, according to just published research from the Duke University BRAVE Kids study. While the children had no symptoms of COVID-19, they had the same viral load of SARS-CoV-2 in their nasal areas, meaning that asymptomatic children had the same capacity to spread the virus compared to others who had symptoms of COVID-19.

And, a study from Singapore early in the COVID-19 pandemic showed that people who were asymptomatic still were spreading SARS-CoV-2 to others.

“Asymptomatic spread definitely plays a role in community spread,” said Dr. David Beckham, an infectious disease specialist who studies viruses in a lab he runs at the University of Colorado School of Medicine.

* * * *

An analysis of multiple studies in the journal, PLOS Medicine, found that approximately 20-to-30% people infected with SARS-CoV-2 remained asymptomatic throughout the course of their infection. The remaining patients included in the studies went on to develop symptoms and the researchers defined them as “presymptomatic.” Both presymptomatic and asymptomatic people can transmit SARS-CoV2, and presymptomatic people transmit at higher rates than asymptomatic people. These data show that presymptomatic and asymptomatic infections contribute to SARS-CoV2 transmission, thus making prevention measures like hand hygiene, masks, testing, tracing, social distancing, and isolation strategies all the more essential to reduce and control the spread of the virus.

* * * *

While it’s confounding to many people that a virus can spread before the person who is infected with it even knows that they are sick or showing any symptoms, Beckham said it’s not unusual. SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, is what’s known as an RNA virus.

“With RNA viruses and other respiratory viruses, it’s quite common for people to be asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic. That’s probably an important way for them to spread,” Beckham said.

West Nile virus is a good example, Beckham said.

“If you take everyone who gets infected (with West Nile), about 80% are asymptomatic. A lot of these viruses cause asymptomatic infections. That’s probably because our innate immune defenses fight off the virus before the infection gets going,” Beckham said.

Mosquitos rather than humans spread West Nile, so asymptomatic spread is a separate issue. But, with viruses like Zika and Dengue, a person can be infected and not have symptoms. Yet, that person may have enough of the virus in their body that a mosquito who bites them can become infected with the virus, and in turn, spread it to other people.

Age also seems to affect the degree to which people are asymptomatic when they contract a virus. The Duke study of children with COVID-19 found that asymptomatic cases were highest among kids ages 6 to 13. Asymptomatic cases were less common — but still occurred 25% of the time — in children ages 0 to 5 and teens who were 14 to 20 years old. The study did not look at adults, but older people have fared worse when they get COVID-19.

Beckham said it’s quite common for different viruses to affect people of various ages in different ways. Some can be more severe in children or young adults. Other infectious illnesses like SARS-CoV-2 and the flu are more dangerous to older people. People with underlying health conditions and older people have been among those who have been most critically ill and who have died at higher rates from COVID-19.

“Kids seem to have lower overall rates of infection, but they clearly can get infected and they can be asymptomatic,” Beckham said. “There’s still a lot of work to be done to understand the epidemiology of these younger kids. I don’t think we know exactly what role they play in the spread of the virus.”

While researchers have much more to learn about how common asymptomatic cases of COVID-19 are and exactly how asymptomatic spread occurs, there’s plenty of evidence to warrant concern and careful behavior now.

Beckham’s take-home message to reduce asymptomatic spread boils down to this simple advice. “Wear your mask.”

https://www.uchealth.org/today/the-truth-about-asymptomatic-spread-of-covid-19/

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Post by Syl Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:42 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Asymptomatic people are not ill with covid... Therefore not killed by covid.

The question isn't whether they are "killed", but whether they can spread the virus.  Spread is the danger.  Here is an article I found.

UCHealth wrote:The truth about COVID-19 and asymptomatic spread: It’s common, so wear a mask and avoid large gatherings

Studies show that at least 40-to-50% of people who test positive for COVID-19 have no symptoms. Medical experts say asymptomatic spread clearly is contributing to fall spikes of COVID-19.

By: Katie Kerwin McCrimmon, UCHealth

Asymptomatic spread has been one of the most mysterious and haunting aspects of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.

Do people without any symptoms of COVID-19 help spread the virus? The alarming answer is yes.

Evidence continues to mount that a large percentage of people who test positive for COVID-19 don’t have any obvious symptoms.

Among the research related to asymptomatic spread of the coronavirus so far:

Up to 50% of people who had COVID-19 in Iceland were asymptomatic after health officials did broad lab testing of the population there.

Nearly 40% of children ages 6 to 13 tested positive for COVID-19, but were asymptomatic, according to just published research from the Duke University BRAVE Kids study. While the children had no symptoms of COVID-19, they had the same viral load of SARS-CoV-2 in their nasal areas, meaning that asymptomatic children had the same capacity to spread the virus compared to others who had symptoms of COVID-19.

And, a study from Singapore early in the COVID-19 pandemic showed that people who were asymptomatic still were spreading SARS-CoV-2 to others.

“Asymptomatic spread definitely plays a role in community spread,” said Dr. David Beckham, an infectious disease specialist who studies viruses in a lab he runs at the University of Colorado School of Medicine.

* * * *

An analysis of multiple studies in the journal, PLOS Medicine, found that approximately 20-to-30% people infected with SARS-CoV-2 remained asymptomatic throughout the course of their infection. The remaining patients included in the studies went on to develop symptoms and the researchers defined them as “presymptomatic.” Both presymptomatic and asymptomatic people can transmit SARS-CoV2, and presymptomatic people transmit at higher rates than asymptomatic people. These data show that presymptomatic and asymptomatic infections contribute to SARS-CoV2 transmission, thus making prevention measures like hand hygiene, masks, testing, tracing, social distancing, and isolation strategies all the more essential to reduce and control the spread of the virus.

* * * *

While it’s confounding to many people that a virus can spread before the person who is infected with it even knows that they are sick or showing any symptoms, Beckham said it’s not unusual. SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, is what’s known as an RNA virus.

“With RNA viruses and other respiratory viruses, it’s quite common for people to be asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic. That’s probably an important way for them to spread,” Beckham said.

West Nile virus is a good example, Beckham said.

“If you take everyone who gets infected (with West Nile), about 80% are asymptomatic. A lot of these viruses cause asymptomatic infections. That’s probably because our innate immune defenses fight off the virus before the infection gets going,” Beckham said.

Mosquitos rather than humans spread West Nile, so asymptomatic spread is a separate issue. But, with viruses like Zika and Dengue, a person can be infected and not have symptoms. Yet, that person may have enough of the virus in their body that a mosquito who bites them can become infected with the virus, and in turn, spread it to other people.

Age also seems to affect the degree to which people are asymptomatic when they contract a virus. The Duke study of children with COVID-19 found that asymptomatic cases were highest among kids ages 6 to 13. Asymptomatic cases were less common — but still occurred 25% of the time — in children ages 0 to 5 and teens who were 14 to 20 years old. The study did not look at adults, but older people have fared worse when they get COVID-19.

Beckham said it’s quite common for different viruses to affect people of various ages in different ways. Some can be more severe in children or young adults. Other infectious illnesses like SARS-CoV-2 and the flu are more dangerous to older people. People with underlying health conditions and older people have been among those who have been most critically ill and who have died at higher rates from COVID-19.

“Kids seem to have lower overall rates of infection, but they clearly can get infected and they can be asymptomatic,” Beckham said. “There’s still a lot of work to be done to understand the epidemiology of these younger kids. I don’t think we know exactly what role they play in the spread of the virus.”

While researchers have much more to learn about how common asymptomatic cases of COVID-19 are and exactly how asymptomatic spread occurs, there’s plenty of evidence to warrant concern and careful behavior now.

Beckham’s take-home message to reduce asymptomatic spread boils down to this simple advice. “Wear your mask.”

https://www.uchealth.org/today/the-truth-about-asymptomatic-spread-of-covid-19/

Quill, I just said the same thing in the previous post....in two lines. Razz

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Post by Original Quill Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:05 pm

Syl wrote:Quill, I just said the same thing in the previous post....in two lines. Razz

I used 1 and 1/2-lines, and backed it up with a scholarly article. I guess we've sewn up the point. Twisted Evil

Next issue?

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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:31 pm




I'm not talking about asymptomatic people being infectious... The point I was making was about the death numbers having many listed as covid deaths when they died of other serious ailments and covid did not contribute to their demise.




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Post by Original Quill Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:34 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I'm not talking about asymptomatic people being infectious... The point I was making was about the death numbers having many listed as covid deaths when they died of other serious ailments and covid did not contribute to their demise.

You didn't say that; what you said was:

Tommy Monk wrote:Asymptomatic people are not ill with covid...

Now, once we establish that asymptomatic people are "ill with covid", we establish that they are indeed a danger to the rest of society...they can spread the virus.

If you have an argument with your medical examiners over there, regarding what is entered as cause of death on death certificates, take it up with them. We don't have that problem.

We have 560,000 dead, genuinely, as a result of Covid-19. Our pathologists do excellent forensic investigations, and keep impeccable records. Cool

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Post by Tommy Monk Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:59 am







Will you please stop cherry picking parts of my posts and quoting them out of context!!!


I have not been talking about whether asymptomatic people with covid can be infectious or not!!!


My points over the last couple of days have been about the numbers listed as covid deaths being vastly overinflated, as many died of a variety of other serious ailments, not killed by covid!!!



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Post by Original Quill Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:11 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Will you please stop cherry picking parts of my posts and quoting them out of context!!!

I have not been talking about whether asymptomatic people with covid can be infectious or not!!!

My points over the last couple of days have been about the numbers listed as covid deaths being vastly overinflated, as many died of a variety of other serious ailments, not killed by covid!!!

We've already covered that: if your medical examiners have difficulty figuring out 'cause of death', the rest of the world doesn't own that problem.

I might mention, however, that the rates in the UK appear to comport with the rates of the rest of the world...suggesting that whatever mistakes are being made by British ME's, they don't seem to alter the overall pattern of the UK with the rest of the world.

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Post by Tommy Monk Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:16 pm


It's not medical practitioner s failing to correctly list cause if death... It's WHO/govt guidelines to list as covid related if tested positive previously... Which has resulted in a huge number of these deaths listed wrongly when they did not die of covid...


Try reading the sun article I posted.



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Post by Syl Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:35 pm

When the live broadcasts from Downing street have reported the Covid death figures they have always (as far as I can remember) said the data was of people who have died within 28 days of catching the virus.
Some will have died from the virus some will have died of complications the virus caused if they had underlying illness.

Has the 'normal' death rate figures ...ie deaths from other diseases or simply old age, altered drastically?
Pre Covid, death figures are taken on a yearly average, unless that yearly average has dropped drastically I don't see how deaths NOT caused by covid can be said to bump the covid figures up.

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Post by Tommy Monk Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:03 pm




And many will have died NOT from any covid symptoms or complications.


Many of those who died will have been asymptomatic.






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Post by Syl Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:09 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:


And many will have died NOT from any covid symptoms or complications.


Many of those who died will have been asymptomatic.






Tommy, to prove that you would have to know that....not including Covid deaths, the average death rate in the UK SINCE Covid appeared was markedly lower than pre Covid figures.

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Post by Original Quill Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:52 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
It's not medical practitioner s failing to correctly list cause if death... It's WHO/govt guidelines to list as covid related if tested positive previously... Which has resulted in a huge number of these deaths listed wrongly when they did not die of covid...

Don't let out your medical standards to the WHO. Do your own work. That's what we do.

Tommy Monk wrote:Try reading the sun article I posted.

I have. It has a huge masthead at the top, left of center, with the words THE SUN in red italics. The headline reads: “NOT COVID Quarter of virus deaths were not caused by Covid as official figures show deadly bug was not primary cause”, and is written by Alice Fuller and Daniel Hammond.

The problem is, The Sun hasn’t got the greatest reputation for truth.


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Post by Tommy Monk Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:14 am




The figures are from the ONS... and reported in the daily telegraph too...


And Syl... Average yearly death rate is exactly that... Average... Sometimes it's higher and sometimes it's lower...

Being higher one year doesn't necessarily = must all be covid deaths.



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